Pickleball Mixed Doubles Match! Ball Hog, or, Perfect Strategy?
Vložit
- čas přidán 4. 12. 2022
- In this video I take a look at a mixed doubles match in which a male player takes over control of the game. If this happened in your mixed doubles math would you like it or be upset about it? You can watch this video and learn how to play most effectively so you can be the best pickleball player you can possibly be.
Video courtesy of Lucky Bounce youtube channel and the Lucky Shots Pickleball Club. - Sport
Rory, thank you for changing the cursor from giant animated red, to small static white ! Now I can watch your vids. I love your CGI desk, gives me a chuckle. Looking forward to your next vid.
You're welcome. Thanks for the suggestion.
I'd call a distraction on dem red shorts
Yep.
These are all 5.0 + players. Jennifer T is a pro and plays PPA tournaments. All these players are in the Minneapolis area and all VERY good 5.0+ players.
I agree, they all are very good players. There just happens to be one that is better than the other three. Thanks for watching.
Rory, To your point, in Rec play it's not uncommon for some players to be offended by poaching.
The offended player is almost always the weaker of the two and becomes the target when the poacher backs off. The game is over quickly.
Regardless, you and your partner need to communicate (Me, you or whatever) so you are not running into each other or banging paddles together.
That's all true! Thanks for watching.
In this scenario, I think the losing team should have tried returning the ball not to the girl but deep (moon-ball if necessary to get established at the NVZ) in the corner to the guy in the blue shirt (esp. when he was on the left and thus to his backhand) to keep him back and try to take away his forehand drive and shake and bake.
Shake and Bake, Baby! Thanks for watching. That's a good suggestion.
If you look at the Lob at 1:06, the ball is nearly impossible for his opponent to get to due to the proximity of the fence. Obstructions (walls, etc) are often a big issue on at least one side of many indoor courts.
Some facilities are like that. Where I play there's more space.
Context is everything, if this is a tournament anything goes.
That's true. Thanks for watching.
He is not a ball hog....I LOVE this strategy...happens all the time in tournament play. However I don't play that way as I select female partners that can handle themselves. Great commentary Rory!!!
Thanks for watching and thanks for the kind comment. Yes, I understand it happens in tournament play. I was just curious to see how people thought about using that strategy in recreational play. Again. Thanks for your input.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 Jen T has been a partner of the badger Dave Weinbach in tournaments. Jen T and Lohani (up-and-comer) played against Johns and Anna Leigh as well in a PPA.
Would you love this strategy if your partner did it to you?
Good video. First, the ball hog did not need to. his partner did return the ball well. My latest thought is that there are three rating numbers in my mind when watching? The first number is offensive shots, the second is defensive shots, and the third rating number is a mental game or thinking game. (abiltiy to adjust as the game goes on)The play to beat the ball hog was cross court to his back hand. the girl in the white hat did it two or three times and won every time. I thought she had figured it out, but she had not, or she would have done it many more times. We see players that maybe 4.0 on offense shots, but 3.5 on defense shots. And 3.5 on strategy. Find your opponents weakness and play to that. Most people will not spend the time to develop an all-around game or do not know how. we do think a lot a like.
We certainly do.
Every player on the court was 5.0+ except the girl in blue. She’s 4.9. So this was basically a professional match.
Jennifer is a great athlete from Ninja warrior!
Cool. I'll have to watch it.
It would be helpful if you would add advice on the best way to beat a ball hog . It seems like hiiting to his back hand on his side of the court was the most successful. If his partner is a 5.0 then i am a 7.0! She netted most of her shots. Ps i love your channel.
I'm glad you love my channel. Thanks for watching. Sometimes no matter how hard a player tries to keep it away from a ball hog, they have the ability to play the entire court. This guy did.
Just saw this video so late to comment. I'm a leftie, and my backhand is actually stronger than my forehand, and am probably a 3.0 level recreational player, as are most of the people I play with at my local club. So I do generally have a chat with relatively new partners to remind them or let them know I'm a leftie (most forget, or don't recognize it immediately), and I actually do NOT like to stack, because I like more backhand play (and it fuddles my opponents who may try to hit to my backhand and I get it back with some pretty good shots). So I'll also let my partner know that I prefer that they take the forehands when we're both in forehand position, and I take the backhands when we're both in backhand positions. Usually turns out pretty well, and I don't necessarily mind a bit of poaching now and then when we're in the forehand positions. However, in rec play, to me, someone like this guy is overstepping. Understandably, I know this is likely a tourney-play, or at least a tourney-level practice play, so it's completely logical what he's doing. But if it was rec play and I actually wanted to get SOME level of play in, this is a bit much. There are people in my club, no offense but generally guys, who are known for being poachers, and a LOT of players avoid playing with them to the point of switching seats, or waiting for Mr. Poacher to sit down in line, and select their next seat accordingly. Of course, the Mr. Poachers have no clue that's going on and never switch up their style of play unless it's their spouse as a partner telling them off....(and then the spouse misses a shot because she thinks her partner will poach it; he doesn't, then gets mad at her for not hitting it, and you on the opposing team know they're unraveling and it's time to go in for the kill).
Those are very good points. Where I play recreationally, poaching like that is not a problem. I really do appreciate you taking the time to comment and watching my videos.
This wasn’t a rec game, this was a tournament.
I did not know that. It wasn't mentioned in the headline of the video.
Rory - great video analysis once again.
Hard to argue with the results. It feels like Jose should probably play singles if he wants to compete like that. Can’t imagine that is fun for his partner. He was literally hitting balls and pushing her entirely off the court.
That said, the guy is clearly better than all of them. His drives on both wings are very high quality. Playing against someone like him would be a nightmare. If the opponents are 5.0, I would expect them to better handle the 3rd shot drives. Expect the drive and reflex volley the balls downward. They couldn’t handle the 3rd shot drives and lost badly.
Yes. Everything you wrote was spot on. I don't think it would have mattered who Jose's opponent was. He is that good. Thanks for watching.
Personally, I think it would be a bit of a nightmare to play with or against him. Because he was so willing to go all the way over to take the woman's shot it looked like the other team was more effective when they would volley to his back hand side to get him to start on his own side of the court rather than continually starting the volleys toward the woman in green.
They all 5.0 players and have won gold medals before
@@MrConte29 Jose could be a 5.0 player just about anywhere. Maybe the other three are 5.0 players in Minnesota, but, if they played in California, or, Florida, at the 5.0 level, they'd be hard pressed to take home a gold medal.
No mention or link to the original video?
Thanks for watching. This is the same as the original video, only with commentary.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 it’s courteous to mention the channel where you took the video from.
Done. Thanks for the suggestion.
This looks like it is at Lucky Shots in Minneapolis so I looked up these 4 players in DUPR, and I think I found the right people in the TC Metro - all but Jennifer S. are currently well over 5.0, (Feb-2024) and she is at 5.0. I realize this was in 2023, so likely that is higher than they were at the time - but at least those 3 players were probably around 5.0 at the time and Jose likely higher. --- I've had (usually better) partners try to cover over the center line, but not to that extent. I think it would bother me the most if (a) they cut over 3/4 of the court and then hit it out or in the net or (b) they left the other side open and the opposing team just put it where neither of us was, they could not get to it, and we lost the point; if they did like Jose though, probably ok by me.
Thanks for commenting. I thought Lucky Shots was an indoor facility. Do they have outdoor courts as well?
That guy in the blue definitely has some tennis background he slices and has that touch volley
Thanks for watching. Oh yeah. He's really good.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 as someone who plays both sports I can tell my fellow tennis men apart lol
So long as the partners agree in advance that's how they'll "team" ... fine. I like Mixed with partners who are at or near my level.
I think the hog should enter a lot of tournaments. He'll learn the opponents know how to hit behind him more to keep him "home".
The girl in the red shorts uses too big a backswing. But she's a good player.
Thanks for watching and thanks for commenting. Someone commented that she is a pro who plays in PPA tournaments. I guess that's true.
I know these people and they all 5.0 players. Jennifer you said was 3.5 plays semipro.
Thanks for watching, thanks for writing. If you're talking about the woman in green, I just took a guess. That's because, her partner took almost every shot. So, it was really hard to determine her exact ability. If you're talking about the other Jennifer, then I just missed. They are all obviously very good players. I do think Jose was a step above the other three.
Nice seeing it when it's done well. Some players do it even when their partner is a full level better than them with tourney credentials to back it up, even when they're reaching and half-volleying, even when they're getting burned down their line over and over. And even when people try to point out why it's not working. But this guy did a pretty good job of reading the play and controlling it with pressure & smart shot direction. Nice slice backhand dink too.
Thanks for watching. Yes, the guy is very good.
From the comments I understand these players are all 5.0+ and that in pro/high levels it is very common for players to poach, but the attempt to take the shot at 11:32 is something else.
Almost knocked her over. Thanks for watching and for your comment.
Watch Ben Johns and Anna Leigh Waters in a doubles match. When dinking, at least the left 2/3 to 3/4 of the court is his ball. They obviously play well together and she gets out of his way.
I don't like ball hogs in rec play especially where we set up paddle piles and get partners randomly. Now this match could be a tournament or the couple is preparing for a tournament so I'm not judging them. Of course, in rec play, sometimes you get matched with a partner that doesn't come up the the net so you get lots of poaching opportunities and then they think your a ball hog. Then, sometimes the ball hog just thinks he's a good player and if he understood, he would let his partner take more of the center shots. I also think the ball hog left a big gap on the other side of the court and the losing team should of checked him more often. When they did at the end of the game, they usually did better.
Nice observations. I agree with almost everything you said. This was a tournament.
If people are going to be predictable and attack the female player I’m going to use that predictability to my advantage. And my wife is onboard. By only trying to hit to my wife, we can control where our opponents hit to. It’s so easy…
Good point. Thanks for watching.
the girl with the guy in the blue shirt is rated 5.0 mixed doubles and the guy in the blue shirt is 4.5 mixed doubles
Thanks for watching. Yes, they are. In Minnesota.
Woman in green looked like she was probably pretty good but its hard to show that when you only get to hit when you can see your partner can't get to it. I have seen a few tennis players that tend to take in too much ground. Its kind of annoying and really takes away some of the confidence in my play. Makes me hit almost defensively and just reinforces in his mind that he needs to be more aggressive. They are no better than me but their aggressive play has simply made me less effective. My 16 year old son is a bit of a ball hog and jokes how he wants me (male, 60) to set up outside the kitchen on one side and just hit any ernies that come my way and he will cover the rest of the court.
You need to watch some pro matches, this happens almost all the time in mixed doubles. Also often in men's and ladies doubles where the better player (or at least the player with the stronger forehand) takes 70%/80% of the balls. Check out the Johns brothers. Nothing wrong with it outside of rec play.
Thanks for watching. So, pretty much my point exactly. I said in the video and totally understand that it is done often on a professional level. Like you said, check out the Johns brothers. This was a recreational match. Just was wondering what viewers thought of it happening in a recreational match. I appreciate your comments.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 The caption at the top of the video shows the players names followed by "Open Mixed Doubles". This leads me to believe that it was a competitive match and not recreational. I do play recreational pickleball with my wife and we do stack so that I can take balls down the middle on my forehand. I do not encroach on my wife's space as much as the guy in this video (or Ben Johns with his partners) as it would not be good for my marriage lol
@@tomwharton9800 Thanks for watching. Divorce can be expensive.
You are assuming that if he didn't play this aggressive style each player would hit 50% of the shots. Wrong! The other team will target the woman in green and the guy will only get to hit about 30% of the shots.
I'm really not assuming anything. I just asked a question. Should he hit 90% of the shots that are hers?
Apologies. Some of the comments had that assumption.
If she's okay with him hitting 90% of the shots, then why not? In the video, not counting serves or returns, he hit 48 shots and she hit 25 - so he hit 80%.
Thanks for the video, it's helpful to show and discuss this strategy.
@@gosto44 You're more than welcome! Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope to hear from you again.
I would call him an ass and just leave the court, if he wants to take the ball let him do the whole thing himself.
I got cha. Thanks for watching.
I use the term PickleJerk for players like this. This guy is playing like he thinks his female partner is totally incompetent -- so what's the point of even playing? She displays a good level of skill the few times she's allowed to hit; back off and let her play. SMH
I'm sure she knew what was going to happen and how he was going to play. So, she was okay with it.
I think this is pretty normal strategy to some extent. The idea is to let the person on the left take the forehand shot rather than the person on the right taking the backhand. I'm pretty sure Ben Johns does this with his brother pretty regularly.
Here are some reasons why I don't like this strategy at all. 1) I have noticed countless times that the woman ends up looking like a cone and not even ready to hit a shot (standing with paddle in non-ready position ). 2) This will screw up a woman's natural instinct to be aggressive - 3) the woman will not develop the skills to return the shots directed at her because someone is always jumping in front of her. There is a way to play as a team where poaching is involved and the other player moves to fill the void left by their partner. 4) What I see most of the time in mixed videos like this is the woman passively just staying behind the partner while he jumps in front of her. Leaving half the court wide open. I think this kind of play is detrimental to a woman's development and limits the potential of the mixed doubles pair! Yes, you might get wins but at the expense of developing into a really good mixed doubles team. I do not understand why a woman would want to get next to no exercise by just being a fixture out there.
You have made some very valid points. Thanks for taking the time to write and thanks for watching.
Woman in blue is never going to get better letting man in blue taking all the shots. Some people enjoy winning instead of trying to get better. Mentality of winning is stupid. He should be trying to encourage instead of taking every shot. Some people would rather win stupid game instead of trying to help partner get better.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.
He's obviously very good, but the strategy seems flawed to me. She is clearly capable enough to handle more shots. He can take more of the middle, but to be so extreme makes them weaker as a team. To me, it looked like the other team completely abandoned trying to move him by hitting behind him from time to time which could have been effective. What about her game remotely suggests she can't hit a cross court forehand dink?? Yet he took most of them. Very good players, but I don't think such an extreme shift would be effective against top teams at their level. But, I only play rec and this was an edited video so for what it's worth....
Thanks for watching and writing. I did edit a few points out, but, not many. He definitely took more shots away from his partner than most players do.
simple solution for the weaker team.....the weaker team should just hit to the guys backhand. obviously he is hogging the court so you do the next best strategy of hitting drives to his backhand wide. tire his ass out. the hogger has weapon in his forehand.....you stay away from forehand. plus there is plenty of room to his backhand and you need to confuse him to keep him in check. the woman not hitting much balls will screw up alot cuz she is not getting to hit much balls
Thanks for watching. He obviously is a good player. He can hit an effective backhand. But, you're right...it might tire him out.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 his forehand is offensive tool while his backhand would be 65% effective. the game would definitely change if the weaker opponents changed their game plan to just hit to his backhand so they can get easier balls to handle vs his forehand.
I'm surprised the ball hog didn't serve for her as well. One of the most ridiculous displays I've seen. At this point, just play singles.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your opinion!
Agreed. What's the point of having a partner if this is the result? I get it, we want to win. But what's the take away from this? "I played pickle ball today and watched my partner hit 8/10 of the shots." How is that remotely satisfying? Who wants to be that person?
@@EricAndersonPennQuinn Thanks for watching. Maybe you should look for another partner!
Why does that guy even need a partner??
It was a tournament and they were trying to win. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for the answer. I’ve only been playing two months but picked it up fast. I was curious, both player are on that same side (she’s just to the right of him) is that ok to serve on her side to the opponent?
I can handle myself but also let go of my ego and feminist BS and let my usual mixed partner take those shots. We all have our strengths and weaknesses.If the woman was doing that no one would say anything. Nothing wrong with me hitting a deep return that brings a pop up for my partner to put away.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
Jennifer Tavernier (red shorts) is a pro with a 5.33 DUPR and just missed getting drafted for the Challenger level MLP (right side player with great hands). Jose Gomez, the guy you keep saying is great is a 5.03 double DUPR, Jennifer Shefet (green shorts) is a 4.75 and Chris Wilton is a 4.97. This is not social play. These people are playing to train. There is no “ball hogging” going on. This is normal competition play, an attacker on the left (for right handers) and a setup/defender on the right. You probably should learn about basic competitive play strategy. Sounds like you have only played basic low level rec play.
Yes. Very highly rated players in Minnesota.
please just hit the ball to the tennis player's side of the court...man leaves his line open for any sped up hit
how many times are they going to hit their return to her side of the court leading him to have middle control?!!?
He does. Thanks for watching.
3.5 at best
Thanks for watching. The video has them as 5.0 and are (semi-pro). I didn't claim they are 5.0. I guess you have to take into account they live and play in Minnesota.
LOL give me some credit dude :(
Dude, you're awesome. I pointed out in the video how good of a player you are and also in reply to some comments that were made. I have no doubt you are a 5.0. When you play in a professional tournament in Florida, let me know. I'll go watch you.
@@pickleballpick-apart9787 thank you!!!🙏🏾. I was just giving a hard time to my boy Allen😄😄 haha.
@@josedanielgomez3456 Haha! I get it. The two of you know each other. I thought you were calling me out. Again, you are a fantastic player. I hope you make far in your pickleball journey.
For the long run, the female player isn’t going to get better nor feel good about the win. Better to lose with pride rather than shameless ball hog. Same goes with targeting a player.
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment.
Ball hog... not a strategy
Thanks for your opinion.