Wait, the original GS was an adventure bike, but the new one isn't? They weigh the same but the new one has more power which makes it not an adventure bike is what seems to be your main point. Well, that is just silly. Middle weight adventure bikes occupy a different place in the market and people who want big powerful bikes usually want them primarily for road use and two up riding. Those same people also are aware of the limitations of these bikes and don't expect them to be dirt bikes. Also, if you say "colorway" instead of just colors, I cannot take you seriously.
Totally fair. I was watching WAY too many promos before shooting this vid and "color ways" had burned itself into my brain. Guilty. Yeh, it seems that maybe I was a bit exaggerated to say it isn't an ADV bike but I do think that because of all the above it is going to lose it's top dog title for the adventure sector. The mid-ranges are going to be better than the GS ever was at satisfying the ADV crowd... Now all of this supposes a pretty narrow definition of adventure which I get is a wholly different argument that I am already conducting on three or four other threads. It is going to be a long day for sure. Thank you so much for watching and all the feedback.
Which original GS are you referring to? The R80GS? It weighed 210kg wet. Looking at the trend over time we have definitely seen an increase in weight/power/technology since the 80s. I personally think the main point of the video is valid- that big, heavy, complicated bikes will be overtaken in the adventure space by smaller, lighter and less complicated bikes (new 452 Himalayan is a good example) whilst the aforementioned get pushed to road/touring use. Interested in your thoughts Dave...
I will disagree. BMW and many others pedal the new GS as off road capable, as an adventure bike. It’s is turning into BMW’s Gold Wing, available in an array of touring colorways. I’ll pass and stick to the middleweight class for real adventure riding.
Nailed it!!!! I have a BMW GSA and it is by far the best bike I have ever been on pavement, but it is the middle weight that are the true adventure bike.
Finally...someone that agrees with me!!! It has been a ton of fun to see everyone's thoughts but believe me, you and I are definitely in the minority here. Thank you so much for the feedback.
Great points. I have a GS and an Africa Twin. The GS is my choice for on-road trips and my AT is my choice for ADV trips. I have taken the AT for pavement touring trips also, primarily because I know it will get me there and back every time.
A full-size Adventure bike is made for roads that can be driven with a Subaru. I'm fine with that. You want to go on something more technical than that then get a mid-size ADV or a dual sport.
This guy's logic: the 1300 GS, being lighter and a lot more capable both on and off road than its archetypal ADV predecessor, the 1150 GS, has somehow become less of an ADV... because ADVs should be lighter and more capable... which this is. WHAT
Perhaps I misspoke and left the impression that somehow this bike was suffering by comparison to itself. It isn't. It is clearly better and more capable than its predecessors. Where it has been and seems to continue to lose is against its competitors in this sector. BMW has chosen to lean into the touring capabilities and add power which does next to no good for the adventure market while its competitors have dropped weight, size, while maintaining more than enough power. It will be a better bike than it was previously but it will not be the best of the adventure market when desires and traditions shift to accommodate better bikes for the riding.
@@BeGoneForGood Its competitors are *all* heavier: the Multistrada V4, the Tiger 1200, the Super Adventure, the V-Strom 1050, the Africa Twin AS and the Pan America all weigh more. What you're doing is mixing segments. It's like complaining that a superbike is uncomfortable on your wrists, or that a cruiser lacks ground clearance. It's not what they're made for. If you want a lighter bike that loses on long distance comfort but it's more manageable off road you get a middleweight ADV - a Tuareg, a Transalp, a 790/890 Adventure, a Tenere 700. If you want a bike that's as able on road as it is off road, not being great in either, you get a dual sport - a CRF300L, a 690 Enduro R. If you want a bike to excel off road being awful (or even illegal) on road you get an Enduro / MX - a CRF450R, a KX450, a 450SX-F, a YZ450F. Large >1000cc ADVs are for riding on the highway in absolute comfort while still being able to do the fire roads / compact dirt in safety all while making you feel manly and cool and like you could go the Patagonia on a whim. That's their ethos. If you want something different buy a bike from a different segment. We never had as much choice as we do nowadays - stop whining.
You are thinking of competitors as only those in its weight class. I am thinking about all competitors in the market available for those that wish to do adventure riding. When it first came out, the GS was the king of adventure and has remained as such for some time because it did better in the segment than any other bike routinely. With BMW's choice to consistently opt for more and more powerful bikes rather than using advancements to significantly lower weight and size of the bike (thus making it better in an adv environment) it has essentially evolved its way out of its supreme position. That is all I am saying and it certainly isn't a complaint. I am not even upset by it other than to see a giant fall. Now many have brought up that my idea of adventure and others isn't exactly the same thing, which is completely fair. I do think in the ADV segment, there will be a challenger that is adequately powered (far below the GS), much more agile, much lighter offering that will be the go-to bike for future adventurers as the GS becomes more and more of a touring bike that grandaddy would ride. Just a thought.
@@BeGoneForGood My point, which you totally missed, is that you have all those things in other segments. 1000cc-plus ADVs are not supposed to be what you're describing - you're in the wrong segment. I suggest getting a middleweight ADV or a dual sport.
No I know exactly what you’re saying but what you’re missing is that the point you’re making IS my point. I’m not shopping. I’m not wishing the GS was something else. I’m simply saying that BMW has optimized in a direction that is going to get them passed by a superior middle weight bike that more closely hits the marks for the ultimate ADV bike. The GS will always be the top of what it is, which used to be the adventure bike sector but it will no longer be the king of the ADV market with its current trajectory.
The key word is Adventure . We all have different ideas of what adventure means to us. What the BMW GS offers is a level of versatility hard to find in other bikes . I can comfortably ride lots of road mile and not be afraid to take off down a gravel or 2 track on a whim . It is not a true Dual sport put can do lots of thing well. Just a fun bike to ride currently on my second GS and not sure it 76 what is next .
You are completely right...this question all really comes down to what qualifies as adventure. I certainly think of more technical and difficult off road type riding which, I think, we would agree the GS isn't set up to be optimal at running. This is the area that I think it will eventually dump out of if it continues along this bigger, more powerful pathway.
While agree with the weight being significant, there are way lighter bikes that you can buy such as ktm 390, 690 or bmw f900. All could be better in enduro application. 1200s, 1300s are tailored for a different market segment. GS is an all rounder bike - does not excel in one area but could do very good in everything. If you want 1 bike in the garage - GS is the bike to buy in my opinion.
I think you are right about what I am positioning as ADV and what the BMW does well. That seems to be where the disconnect lies with my assertion. Thank you so much for dropping your two cents.
Yes I think it going to go the WAY of the Goldwiing not that it IS a Goldwing. The adventure sector is going to more easily wrap around some of these totally usable and capable mid range bikes and leave the GS in a touring category by itself. That is just a guess at the future. I might be wrong. Thank you so much for your feedback. It has been a ton of fun seeing all the different ideas about the future of the community.
😂 the new GS is becoming BMW’s Good Wing…totally true. I think adventure riding and its associated bike class must have the capability to do anything from long range touring on slab, to off road trails short of enduro style riding. This includes a usable power range and a weight that can be easily picked up, loaded, by the average human, in average physical shape. To me that’s a middle weight (~450 lbs wet) advantage bike, with fully adjustable suspension, good wind coverage for touring, and cruise control. Those factors and the primary ingredients of what makes an adventure bike.
I think you're missing the point. Adventure means different things to different people. To some people it means 80% on the road. To others it means a lot of gravel, which 1300 can do with no issues. To others, who are good riders, riding offroad is just fine on the new 1300. For me, the mid size bikes like KTM 890 ADV hits the sweet spot, but to some bigger guys, this BMW is a great fit. If I were in the market for a big ADV bike, I would definitely look at this one, primarily because of its weight down low
Maybe I was a little off by talking about its name. I think what I really meant is that for a long time the GS was THE adventure bike everyone thought about when thinking about adventure motorcycling. Now with these mid-range bikes coming up and doing everything an adventure bike needs to do far better than the GS…maybe it won’t be THE adventure bike much longer.
For me the gs will do the job of two bikes, i can sell my enduro bike and have the gs it can be a sports bike, tourer, commute and off road. One bike does it all and does it well. Not that I will throwing a $30k plus bike around in the bush like an enduoro weapon is still to be seen.
I totally agree and it is basically the reason I have the AT because it is the jack of all trades. I think that only proves the point though. What you and I need is a adv bike AND a road bike. The ADV bike alone is what the GS is no longer going to be the best at when a mid-range takes the cake.
No sir, respectfully, you are incorrect. You keep referencing adventure…adventure does not mean “enduro” or extreme off roading…because that’s what you are mostly describing. Now, by definition you are correct. You see, for myself and most I discuss this very topic with, adventure riding is exactly that…out riding and exploring while discovering and witnessing natures beauty (forrest roads, fire roads, wide-open expanses, portions of the TAT and so on). Without writing a book here 😂, check out any of the Australian BMW safari events on CZcams (last year in Tasmania was AMAZING). That to me is adventure riding on a GS/GSA and there is no other bike I would rather be on for that type of riding. With that said, if looking for extreme riding and potentially dangerous and super challenging conditions, then NONE of the big “adventure bikes” are well suited with exception to maybe the lightest and smallest bikes in the segment (yes, I am aware a small percentage do take their bikes up Imogene Pass, corkscrew, Gulch, Poughkeepsie, Gulch, etc. That type of riding is a lot of fun (when I was young and on a 500). And to your point, along with finding all these amazing, off-road adventure comes a lot of regular road riding which is also amazing on the big girl. PS not a fan of the new model, all my opinions are from the R1250 GSA
Holy cow Bill, you nailed it. I am still holding to my guns but I think this is a very solid, cogent argument the other way. Much of what I was talking about hinges on exactly what one considers adventure and I absolutely put it more in the hard off-roading "enduro-type" riding over many many road miles. For the longest time it seemed like the GS was the go to, top shelf version of that bike for either of those trips but they are only traveling one direction now. With the birth of a very capable mid-range sector I think people will look less and less at the GS for the harder ADV stuff and select instead one of the lighter, more agile, adequately powered competitors. Plus, it HAS to be easier to drop a 15k bike as opposed to a 30k bike...it just HAS to be easier. Thank you so much for your feedback.
Had Chad, really enjoy your insights and videos. I think this time you are wro, wro, wro... incorrect. I'm a way. The new BMW 1300GS offering will still take a rider off pavement, but just like its predecessors it is not a dirt bike, or a dual sport bike. Only in expert hands are they that capable. But I have, and will continue to ride my BMW (now 1250GSA) over terrain a cruiser, a Harley, and certainly a Gold Wing couldn't survive. I do hate that BMW seems to be in a markering race with I don't know who. More HP, more electronics, more comfort... there you and I agree. Cheers
Thank you so much for your insights and I think as I have been reading all the feedback the major issues have come from me being unclear. The bike itself is obviously not any worse, and in fact quite a bit better than its predecessors. It seemed to me that the turn was made as bikes, more attuned to the rigors of ADV, were manufactured and seemingly attacking the "king" from below. The king could have responded by dropping weight and size to compete but they stuck with and doubled down on their version of the segment. It seems to be working out for them but I do believe that one day this will not be the premier adventure bike consideration. But...I could obviously always be wrong.
I am curious why you would prefer to pick up the extra 70-80lbs if all other things were equal? Do you believe the weight distribution of the GS is that much better? I think the creature comforts are awesome but when off road riding often those added elements can easily become a liability.
I would agree Kevin for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the enormous amount of money spent and the number of expensive things that can be broken off of that bike.
Man, those are some fighting words. Want to unseat the mighty GS as king of the hill!?? You think a mid size JV bike like an 800cc wannabe could get coffee at Starbucks drive thru quite as well AND still ride the twisties in Napa in the way to the vineyard do You? I’m not sure those “baby” bikes even come with matching luggage, apparel or umbrellas. That said, have you ever considered the Cb500x? Arguably the best adventure bike there is by your standards. Lightweight, go anywhere performance, no room for ego because it doesn’t come with a leather-lined top case or 12V warmed cup holder to hold it , and no-one ever thinks you’re over-equipped when they see it coming. Real Adventure increases when you do it with less, so if less is more….cb500x. It’s the “least”bike you can find. 😜
The CB500X is the BEST bike that has ever been created and I don't know why anyone would say otherwise. I have seen videos slamming it but those guys clearly don't know what they are talking about when it comes to CB500X supremacy.
So much to unpack here. First off, and with all due respect, you have not ridden a new GS off-road so you are simply not in a position to offer an opinion, much less assert that it has become less of an adventure bike. By any logical analysis, the new bike (being lighter and more compact and with updated suspension) should be BETTER off-road than the outgoing model. And the outgoing model is incredibly capable. As an example, last year I rode Baja and the Wyoming BDR. Two of my buddies, both on R1250GSs, comfortably completed those rides, with one of them joining me on all the 'expert' alternates of the WYBDR. Neither of them is more than an intermediate rider but they have received training and have practiced. Yes, I was able to ride more aggressively on my 890 R, but they did fine and enjoyed every mile. If BMW did not increase the power they would lose sales. BMW's shareholders expect strong sales, not adherence to someone's ideal of what an adventure bike should be. If BMW's marketing department has determined that many riders don't take their GSs off-road, then it only makes sense that BMW's design department would optimize for that market as well. The ride modes on the GS are there to help non-expert riders put that power to use on adventure rides. Based on my friends who ride them, those modes succeed at that. There are so many great bikes from which to choose and the big GS is simply one of them. It and the Tiger 1200 stand alone as the only bikes available that can handle some pretty rough terrain AND have shaft drive. It shouldn't be compared to my 890 R, or something like a T7 that doesn't even have cruise control. A very different bike. Let's wait until riders of all ability levels have had the opportunity to put properly-equipped R1300GSs to the test in true adventure conditions. My money is on the consensus being that the new bike improves over its predecessor in off-road riding. Cheers
You are completely right and maybe it is not that the bike has become less of an adventure bike as much as the other adventure bikes have passed it in capability when it comes to the type of adventure riding I think typifies the category. The mid-range bikes have dropped weight, become more agile, remain adequately powered, and simply do better in harder off-road environments. The GS in contrast has doubled down on its comfort and road capabilities which has it "losing" the adventure race. When it comes to your buddies and your ride, we may just be talking about incremental differences but no one prefers heavier and less agile when going off-road right? There are advancements that can and have been made and as you've stated, it seems BMW is siding with a particular crowd in their moves. That is to say, the GS is absolutely a better ADV bike than its predecessors but it is quickly becoming a worse option for hard ADV riding than the mid-rangers coming up from underneath. Maybe I am wrong but I would be surprised if the GS maintains its ADV king title.
Yeh, as it goes for a road bike I don't know that you can find anything better. It is an absolute dream on that front and the newest one seems to be even better.
You nailed it Chad, the Africa Twin is awesome for crossing country, but weighs a ton after a few pickups. I am looking at either a BMW 850 or Transalp for next bike.
Yeh...I love my AT but if I was going to be doing MUCH more adventure riding without the miles and miles to get there, a different bike would likely be in my future.
I thought ATs were awesome beautiful bikes until I helped a friend pick up his. Too heavy! Also check out the Aprilia Tuareg if you have a local dealer. Brilliant bike! I would know, I ride one.
Very capable and I like to think all of our bikes are basically rich man toys...just some richer than others. ;-) Good to see you again on the comment boards. Thank you so much for the feedback.
You are correct. The current variants of the GS 1300 are basically sport tourers. The adventure version of this bike is still about a year away...and I doubt it will come with turn signals in the hand guards. Hopefully there will be a 21" front wheel option.
I can't imagine what this bike this would be if, instead of going more and more powerful, it chose to go lighter and more agile. There would be no other bike that could keep up.
Agree, rode with a couple skilled guys on their 1250s they kept mentioning that the 100 plus HP was a waste on the trails. Now on road they are fantastic no doubt about it.
Exactly. In the many years since 2003 the GS could have become lighter, more agile than even the moderate improvements they have made if they didn't also get SO much more powerful. It seems they wanted to improve road riding over harder off-road capabilities.
I don't agree. Sorry, but adventure is not dual sport riding. Adventure is either pavement or gravel, on-road but not off-road. Perhaps some really crappy roads in SA or Africa. Adventure is high mileage, on and off road. Too many people want a dirt bike that can go on the road a bit. Fine, buy a dual sport. But that is not adventure. And if you are doing high mileage, the GS is king of the road, and that's coming from an Africa Twin owner (who just didn't have that much cash...). The argument about weight is a good one, and I agree that a focus should be placed on lowering weight (and lowering horsepower), say with more 450-500cc models, but not because the emphasis is more off-road, but rather because weight is bad itself, and few need the added horsepower. Look at what adventure riders have achieved on relatively small bikes, sub-750cc for example.
You are right...much of this argument comes down to what one qualifies as adventure. When I was talking about tough off-road this bike seems to be moving away from capitalizing on advancements for that riding type to more on road mastery. Because of these choices I believe the GS will eventually lose that off-road supremacy to the mid-range bikes that are coming up and improving in that direction.
@@BeGoneForGood This matches my own thinking. Weight is bad so the GS seemed like overkill to me. Too, too much weight, complexity, and cost. One caveat, my own experiences with GS's though showed me they have a great advantage at slow speed off-road. They seem to be more stable, less tippy and the clutch pull is easier than, say, my Africa Twin or BMW's GS 800s. So, they do have some advantages, but I agree that mid-range bikes make lots of sense. Let's see where that goes. All the best.
Up until now 1250gs was the golden standart of adv bike. Being more heavy than 1300gs and on 2013th platform. Today 1300gs is lighter, having only 9hp more, more tech, lower gravity and stoped being one. Thank you, I have seen it all ! 😂
Perhaps saying it isn't a ADV bike was the wrong approach because it is more likely that the continued growth will instead make this an also ran ADV bike rather than king of the hill. When it was top dog there weren't all the other "better" options in the mid range to unseat it. Now, if it maintains this trajectory, I don't see how a lighter, more agile, and adequately powered bike is not overtaking the GS shortly.
Yes but in the ADV world being EVEN smaller and lighter are advantages. There are bikes that are hitting that sweet spot that didn't exist when the OG GS were the kings. BMW could have opted to retain the title by using technology advancements to drop even more weight and size but they opted instead to add power which is all but irrelevant in modern adventure riding. Because of this choice and others, they will no longer be the first thought when it comes to an adventure bike. It will instead fall to one of these more capable middle weights.
Theres no doubt, the new GS goes very well, as it should. However, its also been shrunk, is quite ugly and cheap looking in areas. Theres something more though. Its become almost "Japanesed" and resembles some far cheaper and mundane machines from other manufacturers in looks and general profile. For these reasons I wont be rushing out to buy one. At the inflated prices ( of course..) they should look great too and for me personally its a big fail aesthetically. It will very likely be the big seller and attract the next generation of owners as intended. But theres a lot of prior GS owners that like the full on rugged adv bike, who are very disappointed.
I had a 2010 Anniversary with all bells and whistles yes it was good - stolen. What did I buy? XT660z had it 5 years now, no regrets. I chuckle at the idiots who ride these wallet-drainers. Ridiculous.
Wait, the original GS was an adventure bike, but the new one isn't? They weigh the same but the new one has more power which makes it not an adventure bike is what seems to be your main point. Well, that is just silly. Middle weight adventure bikes occupy a different place in the market and people who want big powerful bikes usually want them primarily for road use and two up riding. Those same people also are aware of the limitations of these bikes and don't expect them to be dirt bikes. Also, if you say "colorway" instead of just colors, I cannot take you seriously.
Totally fair. I was watching WAY too many promos before shooting this vid and "color ways" had burned itself into my brain. Guilty. Yeh, it seems that maybe I was a bit exaggerated to say it isn't an ADV bike but I do think that because of all the above it is going to lose it's top dog title for the adventure sector. The mid-ranges are going to be better than the GS ever was at satisfying the ADV crowd...
Now all of this supposes a pretty narrow definition of adventure which I get is a wholly different argument that I am already conducting on three or four other threads. It is going to be a long day for sure.
Thank you so much for watching and all the feedback.
Which original GS are you referring to? The R80GS? It weighed 210kg wet. Looking at the trend over time we have definitely seen an increase in weight/power/technology since the 80s. I personally think the main point of the video is valid- that big, heavy, complicated bikes will be overtaken in the adventure space by smaller, lighter and less complicated bikes (new 452 Himalayan is a good example) whilst the aforementioned get pushed to road/touring use. Interested in your thoughts Dave...
I will disagree. BMW and many others pedal the new GS as off road capable, as an adventure bike. It’s is turning into BMW’s Gold Wing, available in an array of touring colorways. I’ll pass and stick to the middleweight class for real adventure riding.
Nailed it!!!! I have a BMW GSA and it is by far the best bike I have ever been on pavement, but it is the middle weight
that are the true adventure bike.
Finally...someone that agrees with me!!! It has been a ton of fun to see everyone's thoughts but believe me, you and I are definitely in the minority here. Thank you so much for the feedback.
Great points. I have a GS and an Africa Twin. The GS is my choice for on-road trips and my AT is my choice for ADV trips. I have taken the AT for pavement touring trips also, primarily because I know it will get me there and back every time.
A full-size Adventure bike is made for roads that can be driven with a Subaru. I'm fine with that. You want to go on something more technical than that then get a mid-size ADV or a dual sport.
This guy's logic: the 1300 GS, being lighter and a lot more capable both on and off road than its archetypal ADV predecessor, the 1150 GS, has somehow become less of an ADV... because ADVs should be lighter and more capable... which this is.
WHAT
Perhaps I misspoke and left the impression that somehow this bike was suffering by comparison to itself. It isn't. It is clearly better and more capable than its predecessors. Where it has been and seems to continue to lose is against its competitors in this sector. BMW has chosen to lean into the touring capabilities and add power which does next to no good for the adventure market while its competitors have dropped weight, size, while maintaining more than enough power.
It will be a better bike than it was previously but it will not be the best of the adventure market when desires and traditions shift to accommodate better bikes for the riding.
@@BeGoneForGood Its competitors are *all* heavier: the Multistrada V4, the Tiger 1200, the Super Adventure, the V-Strom 1050, the Africa Twin AS and the Pan America all weigh more.
What you're doing is mixing segments. It's like complaining that a superbike is uncomfortable on your wrists, or that a cruiser lacks ground clearance. It's not what they're made for.
If you want a lighter bike that loses on long distance comfort but it's more manageable off road you get a middleweight ADV - a Tuareg, a Transalp, a 790/890 Adventure, a Tenere 700. If you want a bike that's as able on road as it is off road, not being great in either, you get a dual sport - a CRF300L, a 690 Enduro R. If you want a bike to excel off road being awful (or even illegal) on road you get an Enduro / MX - a CRF450R, a KX450, a 450SX-F, a YZ450F. Large >1000cc ADVs are for riding on the highway in absolute comfort while still being able to do the fire roads / compact dirt in safety all while making you feel manly and cool and like you could go the Patagonia on a whim. That's their ethos.
If you want something different buy a bike from a different segment. We never had as much choice as we do nowadays - stop whining.
You are thinking of competitors as only those in its weight class. I am thinking about all competitors in the market available for those that wish to do adventure riding.
When it first came out, the GS was the king of adventure and has remained as such for some time because it did better in the segment than any other bike routinely. With BMW's choice to consistently opt for more and more powerful bikes rather than using advancements to significantly lower weight and size of the bike (thus making it better in an adv environment) it has essentially evolved its way out of its supreme position. That is all I am saying and it certainly isn't a complaint. I am not even upset by it other than to see a giant fall.
Now many have brought up that my idea of adventure and others isn't exactly the same thing, which is completely fair. I do think in the ADV segment, there will be a challenger that is adequately powered (far below the GS), much more agile, much lighter offering that will be the go-to bike for future adventurers as the GS becomes more and more of a touring bike that grandaddy would ride.
Just a thought.
@@BeGoneForGood My point, which you totally missed, is that you have all those things in other segments. 1000cc-plus ADVs are not supposed to be what you're describing - you're in the wrong segment. I suggest getting a middleweight ADV or a dual sport.
No I know exactly what you’re saying but what you’re missing is that the point you’re making IS my point. I’m not shopping. I’m not wishing the GS was something else. I’m simply saying that BMW has optimized in a direction that is going to get them passed by a superior middle weight bike that more closely hits the marks for the ultimate ADV bike.
The GS will always be the top of what it is, which used to be the adventure bike sector but it will no longer be the king of the ADV market with its current trajectory.
The key word is Adventure . We all have different ideas of what adventure means to us. What the BMW GS offers is a level of versatility hard to find in other bikes . I can comfortably ride lots of road mile and not be afraid to take off down a gravel or 2 track on a whim . It is not a true Dual sport put can do lots of thing well. Just a fun bike to ride currently on my second GS and not sure it 76 what is next .
You are completely right...this question all really comes down to what qualifies as adventure. I certainly think of more technical and difficult off road type riding which, I think, we would agree the GS isn't set up to be optimal at running. This is the area that I think it will eventually dump out of if it continues along this bigger, more powerful pathway.
While agree with the weight being significant, there are way lighter bikes that you can buy such as ktm 390, 690 or bmw f900. All could be better in enduro application. 1200s, 1300s are tailored for a different market segment. GS is an all rounder bike - does not excel in one area but could do very good in everything. If you want 1 bike in the garage - GS is the bike to buy in my opinion.
I think you are right about what I am positioning as ADV and what the BMW does well. That seems to be where the disconnect lies with my assertion. Thank you so much for dropping your two cents.
Original Adventure 1969-1973 Honda SL350, 1988-1990 Honda AX-1, 1987-2012 Honda Transalp, All-New Honda CRF250R/450X, Honda called their: Nature Mountain & Beach
I don't know what most of this means but I appreciate that someone else might get it.
So the bike loses some weight from its predecessor and you say this is the one that makes it a Goldwing?? Weird
Yes I think it going to go the WAY of the Goldwiing not that it IS a Goldwing. The adventure sector is going to more easily wrap around some of these totally usable and capable mid range bikes and leave the GS in a touring category by itself. That is just a guess at the future. I might be wrong.
Thank you so much for your feedback. It has been a ton of fun seeing all the different ideas about the future of the community.
😂 the new GS is becoming BMW’s Good Wing…totally true. I think adventure riding and its associated bike class must have the capability to do anything from long range touring on slab, to off road trails short of enduro style riding. This includes a usable power range and a weight that can be easily picked up, loaded, by the average human, in average physical shape. To me that’s a middle weight (~450 lbs wet) advantage bike, with fully adjustable suspension, good wind coverage for touring, and cruise control. Those factors and the primary ingredients of what makes an adventure bike.
I think you're missing the point. Adventure means different things to different people. To some people it means 80% on the road. To others it means a lot of gravel, which 1300 can do with no issues. To others, who are good riders, riding offroad is just fine on the new 1300. For me, the mid size bikes like KTM 890 ADV hits the sweet spot, but to some bigger guys, this BMW is a great fit. If I were in the market for a big ADV bike, I would definitely look at this one, primarily because of its weight down low
What would the new GS be called if not an Adventure Bike? Adventure Touring or just Touring?
Maybe I was a little off by talking about its name. I think what I really meant is that for a long time the GS was THE adventure bike everyone thought about when thinking about adventure motorcycling. Now with these mid-range bikes coming up and doing everything an adventure bike needs to do far better than the GS…maybe it won’t be THE adventure bike much longer.
I like “Adventure Touring”, just what I’m looking for , not doing single tracks and rocks on a $27k bike!
Very true. I don't know how anyone drops a bike that is this expensive. It seems crazy to me.
For me the gs will do the job of two bikes, i can sell my enduro bike and have the gs it can be a sports bike, tourer, commute and off road. One bike does it all and does it well. Not that I will throwing a $30k plus bike around in the bush like an enduoro weapon is still to be seen.
I totally agree and it is basically the reason I have the AT because it is the jack of all trades. I think that only proves the point though. What you and I need is a adv bike AND a road bike. The ADV bike alone is what the GS is no longer going to be the best at when a mid-range takes the cake.
No sir, respectfully, you are incorrect. You keep referencing adventure…adventure does not mean “enduro” or extreme off roading…because that’s what you are mostly describing. Now, by definition you are correct. You see, for myself and most I discuss this very topic with, adventure riding is exactly that…out riding and exploring while discovering and witnessing natures beauty (forrest roads, fire roads, wide-open expanses, portions of the TAT and so on). Without writing a book here 😂, check out any of the Australian BMW safari events on CZcams (last year in Tasmania was AMAZING). That to me is adventure riding on a GS/GSA and there is no other bike I would rather be on for that type of riding. With that said, if looking for extreme riding and potentially dangerous and super challenging conditions, then NONE of the big “adventure bikes” are well suited with exception to maybe the lightest and smallest bikes in the segment (yes, I am aware a small percentage do take their bikes up Imogene Pass, corkscrew, Gulch, Poughkeepsie, Gulch, etc. That type of riding is a lot of fun (when I was young and on a 500). And to your point, along with finding all these amazing, off-road adventure comes a lot of regular road riding which is also amazing on the big girl. PS not a fan of the new model, all my opinions are from the R1250 GSA
Holy cow Bill, you nailed it. I am still holding to my guns but I think this is a very solid, cogent argument the other way. Much of what I was talking about hinges on exactly what one considers adventure and I absolutely put it more in the hard off-roading "enduro-type" riding over many many road miles. For the longest time it seemed like the GS was the go to, top shelf version of that bike for either of those trips but they are only traveling one direction now. With the birth of a very capable mid-range sector I think people will look less and less at the GS for the harder ADV stuff and select instead one of the lighter, more agile, adequately powered competitors. Plus, it HAS to be easier to drop a 15k bike as opposed to a 30k bike...it just HAS to be easier.
Thank you so much for your feedback.
Had Chad, really enjoy your insights and videos. I think this time you are wro, wro, wro... incorrect. I'm a way. The new BMW 1300GS offering will still take a rider off pavement, but just like its predecessors it is not a dirt bike, or a dual sport bike. Only in expert hands are they that capable. But I have, and will continue to ride my BMW (now 1250GSA) over terrain a cruiser, a Harley, and certainly a Gold Wing couldn't survive. I do hate that BMW seems to be in a markering race with I don't know who. More HP, more electronics, more comfort... there you and I agree. Cheers
Thank you so much for your insights and I think as I have been reading all the feedback the major issues have come from me being unclear. The bike itself is obviously not any worse, and in fact quite a bit better than its predecessors. It seemed to me that the turn was made as bikes, more attuned to the rigors of ADV, were manufactured and seemingly attacking the "king" from below. The king could have responded by dropping weight and size to compete but they stuck with and doubled down on their version of the segment. It seems to be working out for them but I do believe that one day this will not be the premier adventure bike consideration.
But...I could obviously always be wrong.
Agree totally 2008 gs adventure was the best adventure bike
It was certainly the one that got it all started on a wide scale.
I think I'd rather pick up a GS than a T7. And the GS has all of those creature comforts that at T7 lacks.
I am curious why you would prefer to pick up the extra 70-80lbs if all other things were equal? Do you believe the weight distribution of the GS is that much better?
I think the creature comforts are awesome but when off road riding often those added elements can easily become a liability.
Agree…I would love a new GS. But I wouldn’t see me taking that anywhere remotely “off road”.
Why not? It is much lighter than 1250gs, lower center of gravity and only 6% power increase.
I would agree Kevin for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the enormous amount of money spent and the number of expensive things that can be broken off of that bike.
Man, those are some fighting words. Want to unseat the mighty GS as king of the hill!?? You think a mid size JV bike like an 800cc wannabe could get coffee at Starbucks drive thru quite as well AND still ride the twisties in Napa in the way to the vineyard do
You? I’m not sure those “baby” bikes even come with
matching luggage, apparel or umbrellas.
That said, have you ever considered the Cb500x? Arguably the best adventure bike there is by your standards. Lightweight, go anywhere performance, no room for ego because it doesn’t come with a leather-lined top case or 12V warmed cup holder to hold it , and no-one ever thinks you’re over-equipped when they see it coming. Real Adventure increases when you do it with less, so if less is more….cb500x. It’s the “least”bike you can find. 😜
The CB500X is the BEST bike that has ever been created and I don't know why anyone would say otherwise. I have seen videos slamming it but those guys clearly don't know what they are talking about when it comes to CB500X supremacy.
#truth
So much to unpack here. First off, and with all due respect, you have not ridden a new GS off-road so you are simply not in a position to offer an opinion, much less assert that it has become less of an adventure bike. By any logical analysis, the new bike (being lighter and more compact and with updated suspension) should be BETTER off-road than the outgoing model. And the outgoing model is incredibly capable. As an example, last year I rode Baja and the Wyoming BDR. Two of my buddies, both on R1250GSs, comfortably completed those rides, with one of them joining me on all the 'expert' alternates of the WYBDR. Neither of them is more than an intermediate rider but they have received training and have practiced. Yes, I was able to ride more aggressively on my 890 R, but they did fine and enjoyed every mile.
If BMW did not increase the power they would lose sales. BMW's shareholders expect strong sales, not adherence to someone's ideal of what an adventure bike should be. If BMW's marketing department has determined that many riders don't take their GSs off-road, then it only makes sense that BMW's design department would optimize for that market as well. The ride modes on the GS are there to help non-expert riders put that power to use on adventure rides. Based on my friends who ride them, those modes succeed at that.
There are so many great bikes from which to choose and the big GS is simply one of them. It and the Tiger 1200 stand alone as the only bikes available that can handle some pretty rough terrain AND have shaft drive. It shouldn't be compared to my 890 R, or something like a T7 that doesn't even have cruise control. A very different bike.
Let's wait until riders of all ability levels have had the opportunity to put properly-equipped R1300GSs to the test in true adventure conditions. My money is on the consensus being that the new bike improves over its predecessor in off-road riding.
Cheers
You are completely right and maybe it is not that the bike has become less of an adventure bike as much as the other adventure bikes have passed it in capability when it comes to the type of adventure riding I think typifies the category. The mid-range bikes have dropped weight, become more agile, remain adequately powered, and simply do better in harder off-road environments. The GS in contrast has doubled down on its comfort and road capabilities which has it "losing" the adventure race.
When it comes to your buddies and your ride, we may just be talking about incremental differences but no one prefers heavier and less agile when going off-road right? There are advancements that can and have been made and as you've stated, it seems BMW is siding with a particular crowd in their moves.
That is to say, the GS is absolutely a better ADV bike than its predecessors but it is quickly becoming a worse option for hard ADV riding than the mid-rangers coming up from underneath. Maybe I am wrong but I would be surprised if the GS maintains its ADV king title.
i am interested in the gs as a sport touring bike. my harley is to heavy for me these days
Yeh, as it goes for a road bike I don't know that you can find anything better. It is an absolute dream on that front and the newest one seems to be even better.
You nailed it Chad, the Africa Twin is awesome for crossing country, but weighs a ton after a few pickups. I am looking at either a BMW 850 or Transalp for next bike.
Yeh...I love my AT but if I was going to be doing MUCH more adventure riding without the miles and miles to get there, a different bike would likely be in my future.
I thought ATs were awesome beautiful bikes until I helped a friend pick up his. Too heavy! Also check out the Aprilia Tuareg if you have a local dealer. Brilliant bike! I would know, I ride one.
Very true Chad, it's a Rich mans toy,Very capable mind you.
Very capable and I like to think all of our bikes are basically rich man toys...just some richer than others. ;-)
Good to see you again on the comment boards. Thank you so much for the feedback.
You are correct. The current variants of the GS 1300 are basically sport tourers. The adventure version of this bike is still about a year away...and I doubt it will come with turn signals in the hand guards. Hopefully there will be a 21" front wheel option.
I can't imagine what this bike this would be if, instead of going more and more powerful, it chose to go lighter and more agile. There would be no other bike that could keep up.
Agree, rode with a couple skilled guys on their 1250s they kept mentioning that the 100 plus HP was a waste on the trails. Now on road they are fantastic no doubt about it.
Exactly. In the many years since 2003 the GS could have become lighter, more agile than even the moderate improvements they have made if they didn't also get SO much more powerful. It seems they wanted to improve road riding over harder off-road capabilities.
It has become a V-Strom
Careful...you are going to get ambushed at your local Starbucks. Just kidding. Those guys would never hurt you. ;-)
@@BeGoneForGood LOL
I don't agree. Sorry, but adventure is not dual sport riding. Adventure is either pavement or gravel, on-road but not off-road. Perhaps some really crappy roads in SA or Africa. Adventure is high mileage, on and off road. Too many people want a dirt bike that can go on the road a bit. Fine, buy a dual sport. But that is not adventure. And if you are doing high mileage, the GS is king of the road, and that's coming from an Africa Twin owner (who just didn't have that much cash...). The argument about weight is a good one, and I agree that a focus should be placed on lowering weight (and lowering horsepower), say with more 450-500cc models, but not because the emphasis is more off-road, but rather because weight is bad itself, and few need the added horsepower. Look at what adventure riders have achieved on relatively small bikes, sub-750cc for example.
You said adventure is not off road. Then you said that adventure is on and off road. 🤷♂️
@@Kevimoto Gravel I called off-road. I thought the difference was clear. Should maybe have said, off-off-road.
You are right...much of this argument comes down to what one qualifies as adventure. When I was talking about tough off-road this bike seems to be moving away from capitalizing on advancements for that riding type to more on road mastery. Because of these choices I believe the GS will eventually lose that off-road supremacy to the mid-range bikes that are coming up and improving in that direction.
@@BeGoneForGood This matches my own thinking. Weight is bad so the GS seemed like overkill to me. Too, too much weight, complexity, and cost. One caveat, my own experiences with GS's though showed me they have a great advantage at slow speed off-road. They seem to be more stable, less tippy and the clutch pull is easier than, say, my Africa Twin or BMW's GS 800s. So, they do have some advantages, but I agree that mid-range bikes make lots of sense. Let's see where that goes. All the best.
Up until now 1250gs was the golden standart of adv bike. Being more heavy than 1300gs and on 2013th platform.
Today 1300gs is lighter, having only 9hp more, more tech, lower gravity and stoped being one. Thank you, I have seen it all ! 😂
Perhaps saying it isn't a ADV bike was the wrong approach because it is more likely that the continued growth will instead make this an also ran ADV bike rather than king of the hill. When it was top dog there weren't all the other "better" options in the mid range to unseat it. Now, if it maintains this trajectory, I don't see how a lighter, more agile, and adequately powered bike is not overtaking the GS shortly.
Sorry. But new 1300gs is smaller and lighter than 1250gs. Out of all improved things on 1300gs, engine size is insignificant of them all.
Yes but in the ADV world being EVEN smaller and lighter are advantages. There are bikes that are hitting that sweet spot that didn't exist when the OG GS were the kings. BMW could have opted to retain the title by using technology advancements to drop even more weight and size but they opted instead to add power which is all but irrelevant in modern adventure riding.
Because of this choice and others, they will no longer be the first thought when it comes to an adventure bike. It will instead fall to one of these more capable middle weights.
Theres no doubt, the new GS goes very well, as it should. However, its also been shrunk, is quite ugly and cheap looking in areas. Theres something more though. Its become almost "Japanesed" and resembles some far cheaper and mundane machines from other manufacturers in looks and general profile. For these reasons I wont be rushing out to buy one. At the inflated prices ( of course..) they should look great too and for me personally its a big fail aesthetically. It will very likely be the big seller and attract the next generation of owners as intended. But theres a lot of prior GS owners that like the full on rugged adv bike, who are very disappointed.
I had a 2010 Anniversary with all bells and whistles yes it was good - stolen. What did I buy? XT660z had it 5 years now, no regrets. I chuckle at the idiots who ride these wallet-drainers. Ridiculous.