1850-60's Confederate Swivel Breech Rifle
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Swivel breech rifles were the rapid fire rifles of their day, existing and used even as early as the American Revolution with flintlock ignition. At the beginning of the US Civil War, the Confederacy had limited arms and ability to uniformly arm their army and thus a wide variety of weapons were pressed into service, the 1850-60's swivel breech rifle being just one of the ones that would have been seen on the early battlefields of 1861.
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"switching to your knife is always faster than reloading"
I might rather swing for the fences with the rifle to honest. Would you prefer to eat the steel pipes or the stock? I have only shot a .50 single barrel hawken rifle and that was heavier than sin, wonder what the specs are for this
@@mattigator600 practically, I agree. I was making a reference to CoD 4.
@@commander31able60 Captain Price right? That quote has saved my life countless times while playing shooters lol, everything from good old CoD4 to Arma3 and CS:GO
Great, bow knife the watermelon
Al Swann you know what he meant was the rebels were all dead before getting anywhere near bayonet range
As i recall the south lost
I've never heard nor seen of a rifle like that. Very interesting.
Same here, never knew these were a thing!
Likewise. Thinking about it now I can see the usefulness of a quick second shot when hunting.
@@Vespuchian that was my thought, you wouldn't have to take your eyes off the target if you missed or made a bad hit.
Check duelist1954, he has a 54 flintlock swivel breach
Some years back, I worked at a C&R shop in Gettysburg. We had one of these, but I didn't know how it worked until now. Very interesting! I wished I had played with it more now :)
We go through a whole lot of trouble to kill each other. After having to reload these damn things 3 or 4 times I'd strongly consider discussing my differences with whomever I'm shooting at. Including the deer if applicable.
- So what's with that slavery thing you have going on? Aren't you going to get rid of it?
- Why would we? It's quite convenient. The deer is nice, by the way.
Hush, Commie. He's making a joke.
Hush second man, he was also making a joke.
I love this nation
You can also get your saber ready and solve the issue the old fashion way :-)
It cracks me up that people get upset when the gun gets pointed at "them", the reality is it got pointed at a camera three weeks ago.
And the camera survived to upload the tale...
If you're brought up with strict muzzle discipline it's freaky looking down the business end of any gun, any time or place.
The world has indeed turned upside down, Ian just reviewed a brand new 9mm PCC and Karl is shooting a Forgotten Weapon. Enjoyed both.
Swivel Rifle - when you almost had the idea to make a revolver rifle .
Only swivel breach is safer and easier to use, cause no cylinder gap. Lol
If only men where stronger, any more then two barrels an your arms are hanging off after a day carrying it.
Seems curious to me that no one had that idea. Black powder revolvers worked fine, why not scale it up?
@@TheThingAndTheOtherThing they definitely had black powder revolving rifles. The channel "cap and ball" has a great video on the 1855 colt root revolver rifle. I would love one personally.
@@TheThingAndTheOtherThing Because the back blast of gas pressure scales up with it? When firing a conventional revolving pistol both hands/arms are behind the cylinder/chamber, this is not the case with a rifle and getting blasted with gas pressure and lead spray from the action is a concern. Revolver-Rifles were a thing though, just not a hugely popular one.
It's like a derringer on steroids.
Of course the soldier could have kept the second barrel as a reserve.
True.
I wonder how easy it would be to lose your reserve percussion cap and get no bang in an emergency.
@@mattigator600 Probably quite easy, but it'd be quicker to grab a new cap than do a full reload from scratch under stress, right?
@@ricochet5241 probably, since a full reload would include adding a new percussion cap :)
@@ricochet5241 yea quicker without a doubt. But like Karl said while fumbling with tiny caps "imagine trying to do this in combat" you drop one and you could be wearing somebody's bayonet. The whole idea is you're saving it for an emergency right
Imagine charging some dude thinking that he's out of ammo and he just rotates the barrels and dunks on you and your ancestors #disrespectful
Sadly, it takes three shots to spin the spinner.
Also, I am of the controversial opinion that swivel breech guns are obsolete in a military capacity these days.
Isn't a mini-gum just a "higher order" of swivel breach? 🤔...😆
@@bluefalconssuck5881 no no...that's a revolver lol
@@Rumblestrip no, it a mini-gun is actually just a swivel breech gun at its highest evolutionary state. What differentiates it from a revolver is the fact that it has a barrel for each chamber, rather than a single barrel that each chamber must align with. This reduces barrel wear and enhances cooling by both reducing the effective firing rate of each barrel and forcing airflow around each barrel as it rotates around the center axis of the cluster.
Well of course. Good luck taking on a guy with an AK while you have a muzzle loader
My jaw hit the floor when he swiveled the barrels.
Could you spin a spinner using this given the two rapid shots?
No, insufficient powah.
Sad :(
That is what I was hoping for at the end 😀
Maybe with a conical.... Like a lee r.e.a.l. bullet 45s weigh 200 grains... Getting into 45 colt territory for power... Maybe a little stiffer with the right load.
@@InrangeTv Well that just means you need more powder and depleted uranium for the ball obviously.
Just a small point. The short starter you used wasn't really used until after the civil war and only for formal shooting matches. It wasn't until the 1930s that people assumed that they had always been around. I just use the big of my patch knife to pound the ball level, then use the ramrod.
I’m liking the 19th century frontier and Civil War-themed videos lately Karl.
We did a weekend of different events, climbing, first aid, low and high ropes, competitions and a black powder demonstration for the Explorer scouts. Usually 70-100 kids plus other adults. I got to be the loader, the entire day. The bruise on my hand from starting balls for six hours was huge. By the end the two rifles were so fouled. Good times.
A speed test between this an a union rifle would be cool. Quickest to shoot 4 or 6 times
A speed/accuracy comparo of all the major rifles used in the civil war would be interesting.
Military musket with paper cartridges wins every time. What else ya got?
five times.
Maybe a spinner
@@Rumblestrip
Have you considered a Burnside, Maynard or Lindner.
If you look into civil war carbines of the south. Look up the Tallassee carbine. Was a mixture of Springfield and Enfield parts. One of the rarest guns with its armory not being burned down after/during the Civil War.
It’s cool that you give us content that reinforces and pertains to your current project but can be watched in a vacuum as just a cool overview of an interesting historical action and firearm. This is why I come to this channel.
I have never seen one of these operated. Thank you! I genuinely appreciated this.
this is like one of those rpg gun
+2x shots
-2x reload speed
Please please please do more of these videos!!!! I love this early 1780-1899 stuff. Fascinating
Thanks, Karl. The swivel breech muzzleloader you demonstrated represents a step in firearms development that I was previously unaware of. Your historical vignettes are enlightening and entertaining.
Awesome Video! Thanks for posting it!
Always reliably interesting content. Thank you Karl!
Awesome! First heard about swivel breech rifles in Cormac McCarthy’s book Blood Meridian.
For everyone that says in a stressful situation you will not be able to use the slide lock on a pistol to drop the slide due to stress... your great great grand dad had to put a tiny loose cap on a tiny nipple in battle. I think you will be ok.
Oddly they were probably using larger winged caps in the service, but your point is well made sir. Swapping cones on something like this is extremely easy... The musket caps would have been readily available to... Literally on corpses in cap pouches. Lol
Pat Putnam yes musket caps are a lot easier to use than #10 or #11 primers but it is still fiddly trying to place a cap on a nipple
Great great grandpa probably muffed it up under stress. Dropped ammo and non-fired or misfired guns were very common on Civil War battlefields.
My great great grand dad died in the war. I'll stick to racking the slide.
Great vid as always
I have seen some references that say these were commonly combination guns, either both smooth bore or with one rifled barrel. They'd have the first barrel loaded with a round ball for shooting big game, and the second barrel was loaded with shot for small game & birds. This allowed the shooter to take any type of game they happened to come across, while being cheaper than a true double barrel since it only has one lock.
Thank you for the demo of the swivel breech rifle.
That's so cool! Thanks for sharing, great channel!
Definitely Fascinating, Thanks Karl!
So does this accept two bayonetts as well? Asking for a friend
I didn't see a bayonet lug fixed... But I suppose would could Dove tail one in for ya lol
Two bayonets? Could one of them be a shovel? *Happy gas mask noises*
What fantastique rifle! Thank you from France!
Nb4 hipsters say a muzzle loader is their pick for a apocalypse gun
Nice some inrange to start the morning
Wow where are living then that it's in the morning lol
Marley Matthews the us of fucking a
Very interesting!!! I’d not heard of this rifle before. Thanks for making this video!!!
The scenery, birdlife etc where you guys are just seems so spectacular. One day, when I see the USA, I will avoid all the big cities and see the wide open spaces of your beautiful country.
Hey Karl, what an interesting weapon. Thanks for the video and the bit of history
Fascinating! Thanks Karl.
Rich.
Another great video
Karl. This and forgotten weapons are the only channel I reliably watch. Maybe put C&Rsenal on that list, but not nearly as much. I really wish I had the spare money to help support both channels. I hope to once this virus shit blows over. Keep doing the good work!
Karl, you mentioned the earlier rifles, those swivel breech flintlock rifles were found, but not common among the Revolutionary War volunteers of the Southern theater.
Upon reading of the exploits of some of my ancestors with the various units such as Morgan's Riflemen and the "Over-mountain Men" (who marched hundreds of miles through the 'wilderness of the Blue Ridge Mountains) and defeated Ferguson at the Battle of Kings Mountain (the Ferguson Rifle is a fascinating rifle in its own right, and has been the subject of one of Ian's Forgotten Weapons presentations), along with other lesser-known battles of the region, reading the reports and letters seem to suggest that generally swivel-breech rifles, at least the flintlocks were often owned two types of people; as they were reportedly more expensive than two separate rifles, due to the greater precision in the 'smithing', owners were either quite well off, or marksman whose abilities would allow them the use the 'rapid' second shots.
Remember, flintlocks would have been far more at risk for having flash-overs with the two pans in close proximity.
I am thinking that it much the same in the 1860s.
It's interesting that the western regions, the in mountains of the south, from Virginia to Georgia were considered strongholds for the Republicans prior to the Civil War if nothing else but the resentment by the westerners that the Democrats in the state capitals had long ignored the people of the mountains.
Thank you Karl for the demonstration.
Great video.
Super cool design, what a nightmare under fire though! Thanks for sharing Karl!!!
Great video Karl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you official DERPGRU GUY!
use one barrel
start reloading
get interrupted by enemy
smoke him with your spin-surprise musket
I've never heard of a swivel breech rifle before, very interesting. I've been watching Ian's videos for years and I can't recall seeing one on his channel. I'll have to go searching now.
Nice one Karl 👍👌
A little doofy for combat, but I could definitely see this being a great hunting rifle at the time, having a follow-up shot immediately available after the first.
Also, as another commenter suggested, a live comparison of a standard musket and this swivel breech rifle being reloaded and fired as much as possible within 2-5 minutes would be very interesting. Might be a fun competitive video for you and Ian to do if you guys get the opportunity at some point. I can already see all the fumbled caps.
I Never Heard of Such a State of The Art Weapon as Back Assward Was long Before The Tiger Tank 2!
Great video! From a fellow that shoots the old style boom sticks, you can get reloads down to 20 seconds from a powder horn, measure, patch, ball, short starter, ramrod. Don't waste time putting the ramrod back, just hold it with support hand and have a capper, or leather capper.
Inclusion of two ramming rods seems so bizzare. It's not like you could realistically ram two barrels at the same time.
I've seen enough muzzleloader shooters break their ramrod when they were under time pressure to see a spare one as not a bad thing. It's just a stick, usually hickory.
@@steveh1792 If this was the case for historical guns, I think they would have 2 ram rods on every gun not only on this type and you never see this.
@@voneror This would have been a civilian hunting rifle, not a military arm, so it would be more likely to have extra options available, like the extra rod. Also, it looks more symetrical, and therefore more atractive. Probable not much more work or materials to add it, but they could sell it as a premium model.
Military arm- simple, cheap, reliable. Civillian - well, it looks better, so it will sell better.
Why couldn't you ram 2 barrels at the same time? Is there that much resistance?
They tend to get jealous and insecure, so you have to talk them into it.
I wish the company that made these rifles was still around I need one in my collection!
Use 1 barrel, keep the other in reserve. In case of severe fouling or emergency then use the 2nd one.
Whoever creating this/bought this is smart person. I like it.
The one question turning in my head while watching: If you already have a swivel breach, why not make it a breach loader???
You would loose the ability to fire two shots after another but loading would be soo much faster.
I really like how it has two sets of sights. the barrels are different, so should be the sights.
Imagine reloading this rifle when someone is attacking you.
If you could afford a rifle like this during the war, chances are you also had a revolver or a pistol or two.
I think Glanton used a gun similar to this in Blood Meridian. Cool to see it
The fact it also has 2 cleaning rods cracks me up.
Always good to have a spare
Interesting video! I have never seen one of these in a Confederate context before. I am not surprised given the shotguns, squirrel rifles, flintlocks and some of the other trash the south used before they got a reliable supply of Enfields.
It would be interesting if you could do a segment on some of the other foreign rifles, such as the Austrian Lorenz, that both sides used until better weapons were on hand.
Who is the manufacturer of the reproduction rifle shown here?
No wonder so many soldiers died during the Civil War. They had to go through so much just to reload their rifles while in the line of fire.
Very interesting concept. This seems like an excellent rifle for hunting and possibly for home defence (if you can duck down inside to reaload or grab another weapon). I probably wouldn't want it as a weapon of war though.
Thanks, Karl!
Under the stress and chaos of combat, I would be extremely concerned about accidentally pouring a double charge down one barrel. That said, I love the inventiveness of these early repeating rifles.
Hi Karl,
I'm a Patreon supporter and totally appreciate your channels content. Thanks for doing a video on a black powder muzzle loader. I'm an avid black powder shooter from the land of the persecuted gun owners in Canada. We appreciate your freedoms. Our government just banned some of my guns and classified them as prohibited. When it comes to gun legislation they have there heads up there butt.
Karl, Thanks for another fascinating video! You have actually addressed two
interesting topics at once: swivel breech guns and loading a rifle with an UNPATCHED
ball.
I actually tried this once some years ago. I loaded a .50 caliber muzzleloader
with a .490 round ball but without the usual .010 patch. Very quick to do but
it printed about a foot and a half lower than normal on a 50 yard target. Did you have
to adjust your aim when firing the unpatched ball?
Also, did people really use loose caps back in the day? I know there are several
capping gadgets on the market, but is there any record of such things being used
historically?
Before the battle of Shiloh, Albert Sidney Johnston said to Southerners (and I paraphrase) "Come! Bring your rifles, bring your shotguns. If you don't have a rifle or shotgun, bring a pike. Just Come!" A non-optimal firearm is far, far better than a literal sharp stick than is the best firearm compared to that non-optimal firearm.
I rather stay with my beloved Spencer Rifle.
@@Muster_Muckee_II Your wish is granted. You now have a Zip 22
@@Muster_Muckee_II Hey, could probably sell a zip for quite the price to a collector and buy a functional gun with that money
I wonder how effective mass numbers of these used in line formations would've been, especially in units four or so ranks deep. The first two ranks would be able to fire their two shots, then reload behind the third and fourth ranks as they moved up to fire their own, so on. The fire may not be as sustained as a regular line unit, but I could see them being superb as a sort of 18th-19th century shock-troop. Massive initial fire followed by a charge.
I remember asking some old timers why I couldn't make Minie balls for my Hawken, they said the twist rate was too high and they would destabilize. I imagine the same is true for this gun.
You could use Maxi-Balls though, they work nice from hawken rifles with 1:48 twist (but they werent inventend back in the days)
Rifle twist enters into it a little bit, but honestly, I've put some of those "old timers" knowledge to the test and sent a Hornady great plains hollow point 700 yards out of a 50 caliber flintlock to an aluminum sheet and hit just fine with a 1:48 twist 35 barrel. There's a video of my first hit on my YT to prove it. Got all the load info in the description. I suspect minie balls didn't really exist much for these guys kind of like now. We got some modern. Ideas about and the closest conical they had was slightly oversized for this gun for 44 revolvers... Average size for the concials there was 0.450-0.452. you might be able to force that down the barrel, but not very often and not consistently.
So the standard issue weapon with updated ammunition was better than the more advanced weapon that was available at the time. Almost like I've heard this point made here before. Anyways, this historical stuff is why I subscribe, look forward to more.
i think Judge Holden used the same gun in "Blood Meridian"
Great novel, my favourite. I keep wondering what he meant by a swivelbore.
I would like to see a comparison of shooting for speed and accuracy with this and other musket type rifles of the time. It would be interesting to see if you could shoot 6 or so targets at medium distance faster with this or with a more modern musket.
It'll be the same sustained rate of fire but it's faster for 2 shots.
Sometimes you need a second shot as fast as possible, other times you're dead.
Almost no one loaded a musket directly from a flask during the Civil War.
Cartage for the win.
That’s just the way it was! I will say the worst threat from loading from the powder flask was a flash ignition of the flask itself turning it into a grenade going off in your hand. I did have a flash once at the muzzle, powder burns on the wrist are no bueno but minor.
Cool video
Would be handy in a situation where you miss with first shot, misfire or only lightly wound someone attacking you? Perhaps not ideal for battle but for self defense situations. Nice to have a six shooter as a backup aswell.
Have you ever reviewed some of the revolving carbines at the time?
MOAR PLS
Thays a very cool mechanism
Seems pretty odd today, but I'll bet in the days two army lines standing apart and volleying at each other this seemed like a ridiculous advantage, being able to lob two volleys in the first part of the battle
Doubt they had that many... Historical references of these style of guns is pretty slim and rare.
Things like this likely also saw Union service. Several museums have rifles used by Union regiments from the Trans-Mississipi Theater that were just standard plains rifles.
I feel like the troops equipped with these rifles would have realized that the second shot isn’t worth the long reload and only use one barrel.
Second shot in case you get bushwacked
Or ya know just use one barrel and reload the second after the battle
Depends on the application this would have been fielded for... This doesn't strike me as "give Private Target McStumpy over there the swivel breach we got." No this strikes me as either a skirmisher or sharpshooters weapon. Something for a get in fast and get out, or a hide and look for somebody with stars on his uniform and give him lead poisoning.
The first reload isn't much faster than double reload - it's the reloading way that is significantly slower since these can't use minié balls _nor_ paper cartridges (though why you couldn't have ready-measured charges in paper pouches + a ball all ready to go escapes me). Keeping a second shot in reserve does sound like a reasonable thing to do though, especially in a unit that might have these and regular one-barrel muzzleloaders. Keeps everyone firing volleys at similar rates.
So I imagine these were really just 'Pvt. McStumpy' rifles, issued out because 'it's what we got, private! Now, march into line, hop to it, get moving moving moving!'
Accuracy doesn't seem to be anything to write home about either, or Karl at least left it out of this equation. So not a marksman's weapon as such, I guess.
Makes a h&r 12ga look fast!
Flintlock and Percussion Cap mud test!!! 😉
Please no... Always makes me cringe... Fyi the percussion gun wins if the cap is on when it's dunked... That's the point in the cap. Doesn't need testing... If ya want to test it, hunt with each in the rain. Unless you put a little beeswax in front of the pan on the flintlock your main and priming charges are both going to be soaked if it's raining hard enough... Never mind if the flint will actually produce Sparks when the cock strikes it to the hammer/frizzen.
Huh, I have never heard of such a thing. Very interesting.
For the South being Relatively Un-industrial, they certainly had an impressive array of improvised arms, lacking only in production capacity. Still goes to show how ingenuity strikes hot when defending one's home is on the Line. ^.-.^
Would it not have been possible to make one of those fancy flared base rounds (Mignet?) to help alleviate some of that reloading time vs Muskets? I guess I'm missing the argument against swivel breech based on the ammunition.
3:56 a decently reliable way to tell if you have an air space (aka, a pipe bomb)
is to "toss" the ram-rod down..... letting go of it before it hits the ball.
if it bounces back up, its 98% sure its seated against the powder charge
again..... use a starter (because if ya just use the ram rod..... it can break.... and then ya spear your hand clean threw)
then use the ram-rod..... push it down
then pull the ram-rod up about 6 inches..... and "flick" it back down the bore
if it doesnt bounce... or only bounces off the ball a little bit
you have an air gap (again.... this is an EXPLOSIVE condition)
but if you flick it down..... and it bounces back like it hit a "bouncy ball"
your seated, loaded, and ready to cap and fire
or, if you ONLY use the same powder charge and balls....
mark the ram rod with a line..... right at the crown of the barrel
if the line is above the end of the barrel.... its a NO-GO
but if the line is in-line or below the end of the barrel..... your good to cap and fire
Hey Karl, could they have had a minie ball mold made personally for this rifle or is there something preventing them from using other than round balls? Just curious, as it's probably pretty unlikely for them to have a mold made prior for personal use anyways...
"Can you imagine doing this in battle?" I can imagine all sorts of ways to mess up the loading sequence and none of them good! Double charges would be easy to do, no charge under one ball, two under the other, etc.
That is pretty kick ass
I’d be interested as to how to integrate these into linear combat. You could fire a volley with one barrel, reload it, and if attacked mud reload you have a spare shot. It’s similar to a tactical reload wherein one round is still in the chamber as you reload. For asymmetric warfare it’d increase the fire power of a small unit by double. I imagine that’d be helpful in ambush or simply against a larger opponent. Very interesting!
Lock, stock, and two smoking barrels!
Was there any modern firearms like this? As in an over under shotgun that swivel to reload instead of break action? Just curious. Thanks for the awesome Video Big C
Could the barrels have been coned like some of the old long rifles to increase the loading speed.
Interesting. Can't recall ever seeing one. When i saw swivel breech, i was thinking maybe it was a breechloader that swung open to the side. It would be fun for hunting. Militarily, if you had a platoon or so of guys with these, you could do volley fire. Divide into 3 or 4 groups. Each line fires both their shots and then reloads. But just having a few scattered through a unit does not seem to have much combat utility. Fascinating system though. Great demo
What are the diameters for the bore and the balls you used?
I thought it was a mud test based on the thumbnail. My heart skipped a beat
Having a couple of those on the line for each soldier could mean really good firepower