The reason it took so long for the thermometer to show the “true” reading of the compost temperature is because: you took a pipe that had been setting outside in the cold ambient air and then stuck it in the middle of the compost. It take a while for the pipe (steel) to warm up enough to stabilize with the compost temperature. Basically, the compost pile had to warm up the pipe enough to get an accurate reading.
The double layer of plastic with air insulation between really works! We've been using it for decades. We also use passive solar heat. We fill 55gal drums with water. The barrels are painted black on the side facing the sun, and white on the side facing the plants to increase light.
I was Thrilled to see muskovey ducks and Pomeranian saddl-back geese! Each are my favorite breeds! One video I saw said Pomeranian saddl-back geese are very rare.
Using leech lines (PVC pipes with holes) placed every foot or so in your pile will allow enough air flow and heat exchange to keep your compost healthy. I would suggest a total of 4 leech lines in that size pile, 2 equally spaced near the bottom and 2 leech lines going the other direction about a foot or so higher. Add worms, bugs and edible mushrooms along with kitchen scraps and your chickens will eat good.
I would coil and layer some black poly pipe and circulate water to a heat exchanger and back. 50 degrees centigrade is hot enough to be comfortable heat. I am not sure how big of a compost pile it would take to keep the temp at 50 degrees to heat that space. I have watched silage piles steam all winter here in Minnesota. When we did chores I would go sit in the pile and warm myself in -20 weather.
I think you should add some more kitchen scraps and rotted straw to the top and keep layering for a while. Once you turn it it will take days to heat up again and you lose your heating system. I would think that the heat would be more valuable to the chickens right now. You don't need the fertilizer aspect of the compost until closer to spring planting.
Another gentleman has large container where he uses leaves to compost and it warmed his greenhouse during the winter. The pile was generating 91 degrees. So placed a few more compost.piles and the mddle of winter with lots of snow on the ground the inside temperature was 79 degrees. Oh another comment on the compost piles it makes great feed for the chickens and warmth you cant go wrong placing many piles within your cold frame
Don't be afraid to try the compost on the North side from one end to the other. The sun doesn't hit that side and is usually cold, so heat there would help plus give you a couple of feet of warm insulation between the cold and the inside.
I just found your videos and enjoying watching them. I've been growing compost piles for years also raised and breed a lot of chickens. I wish I had a large enough yard for your hoop house. I agree you need to increase the height as the added pressure will help increase the decomposition. I turn my pile when it gets to 130 degrees. The chickens might be eating bugs and worms (and worm eggs) that are beneficial for the composting but the pile is so large it likely won't do much damage. If it was my compost pile I would put chicken wire around it so the chickens don't scratch it all away. Also for every layer of plastic it holds in heat to equal one gardening zone. I heat my small 6x8 hot house with a 5 gallon bucket of water with a large aquarium heater in it but that produces too much humidity. Like your idea better.
The easiest thing to do would be to put a sort of roof ontop of the pile. Something to catch the warm air and to warm up. Like a big heat sink. At the moment your warmth is going streight up to the roof and warming up the roof. I bet there is no frost on the roof in the morning because of this. Another idea would be to put in water pipes that can take the heat to water troughs that you dont want freezing. You could even have the pipes run to a trough outside. . You have the heat, now you must just make use of it. Good job TGC Blessings in abundance:)
If you set multiple pipes up in your composting pile so the heat would rise up and out that would give you a continual heat out into the open. IF..you had a second rack next to the first you could 'turn over' your pile from the original pile to the 2nd. You would lose some of the heat temporarily but this would add to the 'working composting in the pile'. Since you don't have full capacity of chickens you appear to have room for a 3rd rack to create a 2nd working compost pile using one to be the alternate and rotate the piles from one to another at different times that way you would not have any 'down time' / total loss of heat like you would with just one pile. Once you have two working ventilated piles going you in theory would continuous heat even when rotate 'turning over' one of the working piles. I can see the dead space between the layers of plastic as a big help as well. I love what you are doing. Good luck..
At the auto parts store they sell a hand held laser thermometer about $ 40.00 on sale here in the USA it's a cool tool just point and pull the trigger .l use it year round on checking farm,auto,cooking,livestock,anything you can think of ,even the sky it has paid for itself many times over especially on sealed bearings on the equiptment .
Just found your channel and love it. Can't see your ventilation in poly tunnel but seriously concerned you could have a build up of dangerous gasses in there. The rotting bird poo and vegetation could cause an atmosphere that's not safe.
In the bottom put a pipe for one side to the other at the bottom of the compose pile it will pull the head out but then it will rise so you put a small fan on low to move the air God bless you and you're family THANKS.
I've use a 100 x 32 Foot greenhouse with double 8 mill thick film (plastic) sitting on top of 42" cement foundation and dirt floor. Starting with 100 (3.8 cubic Ft) bags of peat moss, 5 cubic yards of horse manure and 20 cubic yards of saw dust. This was rotor tilled together NO water added. All the roosts, nest boxes, feeders and watering nipples were suspended from racks with ropes that raised them to as high as 6 feet to allow the compost to be tilled with the rototiller. It had 50 turkeys, 125 Isa Brown layers, 200 broilers, 50 french guineas. Once or twice a week would till the compost to keep it working (heating up). By spring there would be about 2 feet of compost. It kept the greenhouse above freezing all winter long and the auto-watering system from freezing. Never added water to this at all because the birds droppings were plenty moist enough to keep the compost working (heating up). Each spring we removed all but 6 inches of the compost for the gardens. What was left was tilled as usual and by the following spring it was 2 foot deep without adding any thing but what the birds we leaving behind. To keep the birds away for the rototiller we used a plastic snow fence stretched across greenhouse herding the birds to opposite ends as we tilled. When finished it rolled up and removed to keep it clean (the snow fence). Have run, out of time but will tell you later how we kept feed cost very low by growing sprouts to feed them.
Firstly insulate the ground under the stack. If the purpose is to use the warmth to heat the air then a pipe system with an input close to the stack can travel through the stack split in to numerous outlets and be warm on its way out especially if the exit is higher. 50mm pipe with three or four pipe runs coming off it.
Adding wood ash to compost pile really increases temperature. Urine too. Add some good compost dirt from another area to inoculate with microbes. Swamp water.
An idea I have seen is to take plastic water piping and run it through the pile and have a small solar pump circulating the water through a radiator and it will give off heat and keep the greenhouse above freezing
There are great videos out on this topic but I agree you need the heat not the soil until spring. I saw a video how they used compost piles to heat water for showering. So weave pipes through the center to heat greenhouse.
Your Urine/water mixed at a 1/9 ratio which will provide Urea, minerals and much more good stuff. The bacteria in the compost will love it! You could also use some conductive tubing within the pile and use an external radiator to heat the greenhouse and buffer the compost temp so it does not overheat. For insulation you can use cheap bubble wrap that is used for packaging glued to the existing greenhouse plastic. All the best
Compost needs lots of moisture to function properly hence the reason to dilute the urine along with the fact th it would spread more evenly throughout the pile.
@B = indeed. There are quite a few videos out there explaining the concept. Here's one where they use the water for hot showers: czcams.com/video/-Jm-c9B2_ew/video.html but you could also run it through a radiator.
I know nothing about chickens, composting, homesteading...but your chickens seem to love the compost pile! Keeps their feet warm =) I look forward to following your channel.
Aside from adding some piping for air like others suggested. The only other thing I know of to add to a compost pile is worms. If you were to use them to help break things down I'd dig a shallow hole, dump them in and then cover it with the shovel like you did with the thermometer so the chickens don't gobble them up right away. They'll migrate into the pile, and eventually the chickens will get them. If they realize they are in there it may make them dig through the pile more to try and find them.
You are doing such a great job with your chickens and your farm. The compost biota and also the ruminant manure is very beneficial for the chickens, but they probably get most of their nutrients from the food scraps that Karl Hammer makes his Vermont compost from. Since your compost pile does not contain food scraps in large enough quantities to feed all the chickens that you have, you could use a Joel Salatin trick and sprinkle the chicken grain into the compost so the chickens will spend more time digging into it. I am really impressed with your channel, keep up the great videos :)
Mollison had a story about a greenhouse in Kentucky where they were growing mangos. The heat source for this greenhouse was five hundred chickens. ;) The chickens will warm the space themselves, if there are enough of them...
You should also add some blood from the chicken and turkeys you slaughter to your compost pile. It helps a lot because the blood is rich in a lot of minerals useful for the plants as well.
Well, others have said this, but just to drive the point home, I grew up in a family of greenhouse owner / operators, near Chicago in the US. A double layer of plastic with air blown in between was an absolute must to keep the greenhouses warm in the winter, otherwise the boilers could not keep up, and the heating bill would be too expensive. All you need to do is throw a piece of plastic over the top that will cover the entire arch, and secure it at the perimeter. No need to leave slack for air space - there will be sufficient space when it is inflated. There should be simple squirrel cage blowers that you can use. We mounted them on a piece of plywood for support, inside the greenhouse (of course, to protect it from the weather). Inflating the layer with warmer air from the inside keeps snow and ice from accumulating on the plastic and collapsing the insulating layer in the winter. Without an insulating layer of air, the heat inside easily radiates through the plastic and is lost.
HI Simeon, if you put 1-2 cm strapping over your wooden ribs on the greenhouse, you could attach a second layer of plastic, and get your airspace without needing a fan. A small pellet stove with a 24 hour feeder would help as well.
Seems like your chickens are excited about the pile too. Even in a little backyard garden I keep adding veggies, cardboard torn up & shreds of paper & coffee grounds. It can get very cold. The snow always melts off the pile. I can always turn the pile. Not to mention my garden loves the soil I make for it.
You need to mix brown material which is carbon like straw and dry leaves with green material like fresh grass and mature which is nitrogen to have a proper compost mix. The ratio is about 3 to 1. The more green the smellier and hotter it with get. But it won't break do as fast, that why you bulk it up with brown material. A long time ago the garbage dumps would spread all the Fall leaves over the garbage just before closing. In the areas where this was done the garbage decomposted faster and gave off more gas, which was burned off. The laws changed that you couldn't mix the two, now the garbage takes longer to decompose. I had organic gardens for decades, check the Ph of your soil after you mix in your compost. Ph determines if the plants will pick up the nutrients or not.
Nice setup & great idea on heating up the greenhouse. I hope to do that on a smaller scale once I get my greenhouse structures up and on dirt so there's no worries on rotting my barn's wooden floor.
In school i have learned that the tempreture goes up to 60/62 degrees celcius. I should wait until t is coold down again than you can turn it. So the outside can be composed. If you do it te early you wil waist energie because the inside is not done composting and needs to warm up again. Mayby a tip for your spring project to have one compost pile tarped up with plastic so you can see te differens between composting and fermenting. Tanks for your great video's
This is just a fascinating video and the first of your channel that I have seen. I have been watching videos where the owners are heating with compost and yours came into my feed. I am so glad I found your channel. Great video and I am going to keep watching. Good luck with your projects.
if you ever decide to raise rabbits, you can mount the cages over worm beds with their poop falling through. only in winter have the rabbits in there as it would be to hot for them in the summer. they will warm the greenhouse along with the worm/compost beds. great channel.
Have you tried shaping the compost heap into a triangle or pyramid shape? Make it as long and tall as you have room for in your poly tunnel and let the chickens turn it, Just reform it into a long triangle shape as often as you can..It will heat up that way.
Simeon, I really enjoy your channel, they are full of useful information. My concern on this composting heat gathering is that as plant material s composting it makes gas. as in methane. if your greenhouse is relatively airtight you could wake up to dead chickens. Our garbage dumps have pipes down into the garbage to bring up the methane and burn it off as it comes out the tops of the piles😶
Simeon. I was raised in the greenhouse business (pun intended ). We always used the two layers of plastic with an inflation fan. It makes a tremendous difference . You are able to keep more of that solar heat gain inside . John Suscovich @ Farm marketing solutions tried something similar to this with his flock a few winters ago. He said it wasn't for him but I think you might be on the right track. Keep up the good work. The Tomte
Thank you so much for filming your trials. I am absolutely learning from you on how to do it right when we get chickens. We have never had a steaming compost pile...I think it might be from adding too many greens and not enough browns to the pile.
I’m thinking that this space could use another pile since it only alters the height of the surface for the chickens. Another thought that comes to mind relative to. Driving more heat of the piles and that is to line the sides with plastic to concentrate the heat and moisture. Through this trail I’d be looking for ideal timing in turning or consider adding pipe internally to circulate air and drain moisture from the interior. Though I realize that is only part of the scope of which approaches to combine for your ideal. Looks to be a great experiment and one that offers several different outputs or products for your use. Very interested in the progress and what you find to be good insights in the process there in the climate around you.
Just a thought but if you were to run a couple of hundred metres of water filled plastic pipe through that pile and then pump that water around the greenhouse that would heat the place up real nice
I visited an earth ship where they had just outside, a pile of woodchips, with coiled plastic pipe in the middle. They used it to heat their water. Once in a while the pile was turned or when no longer able to cook new chips were brought in. I've also seen food cooked in plastic bags in a compost heap.
I suggest looking into the Jean Pain method, where you put some sort of tank filled with water in the center of the pile and run pex or flexible plastic piping out to a number of baseboard style heaters within the greenhouse. You'd get a LOT more heat in your greenhouse, with better heat distribution throughout the greenhouse as well.
What if you add perforated drain pipes under your pile to aerate it from the bottom. You can also add more pipes to let the heat escape the compost into the green house. Heat is a byproduct of the bacteria working their magic, but compost doesn't absolutely need the heat to keep composting and can actually kill the bacteria if it gets too hot so might as well harvest the most we can.
pour branches under a layer of 0.5 meters. There is a layer of straw on them. Straw material. Cover the top with a layer of wet straw. And branches from chickens.
I think old time is right, a temperature drop would indicate it's ready for aeration. But if you're intending to let the chickens help do the turning, you may want to open the gates now; It will take them a while to dig down. You do realize their will be a temporary drop in heat production when the compost is spread out I hope. We always had a smaller more enclosed roosting area inside our chicken house where they could huddle together and share body heat during extreme cold. Metal perches are cold on their feet also, maybe lay some wooden dowels across the compost pile.
2 thoughts I'd add: firstly, if you block the top of the pipe you may get a more accurate reading as the heat will rise out of the pipe. Maybe stuff some bubble wrap in the top? secondly, a hot compost pile will keep a lot of the insect life out of the pile and therefore mean less food for the chickens. Maybe just a warm pile might be a good thing to aim for?
Your compost heap looks great. Perhaps some black plastic around the sides would help and also if you got some black plastic barrels (55 gal.) filled with water around edge of your greenhouse would absorb sunlight/infrared heat and re-radiate into your greenhouse at night. Nice job.
To heat the greenhouse you should try taking gallon jugs paint them black fill them with water and put them in the green house. The sun will heat the jugs throught the day and slowly release the heat throughtout the night.
Place piping in the pile with a low blower on the intake, of course keep the exhaust somewhere that cant burn the birds when it is blowing. One pipe across (maybe pvc 3" or so) with numerous pipes coming out from a T in the first pipe. Kind of like a garden rake style. And make the "tines" pipes so they are long enough that they rise above the pile a few inches above the chickens.( maybe put a bigger pipe around the risers so they are insulated against the inner pipe?) And if you use a blower on it then of course you would want to block one end of the first pipe, the horizontal pipe. You might not even need a blower at those temps tho. Thats some high heat, it may cause the air to flow naturally without a blower. If the first pipes work, you might want to install maybe 3 or 4 sets in the pile.
Look up Dr Elaine Ingham for more compost info. You want the inside if the pile to reach 131 degrees F for 3 days then turn all the outside part of the pile to the middle and let it get the same temp for another 3 days. This will kill all the bad stuff like salmonella E. Coli as well as plant diseases. I think you have enough room in there to make a lot of piles and that will warm up the greenhouse more. Also making bigger piles to hold the heat better
If you double layer your plastic with the fan blowing air between them I guarantee it will not freeze inside anymore. Maybe without the compost but especially with it and the chickens
At about 54C would be time to turn the compost. You don't want to wait for the temperature to drop on a pile that you're going to try to keep active and hot. The dropping temperature means that the active biology is decreasing - it's out of food. Before that happens, you turn the pile so that there is fresh material from the outside introduced into the core, giving the microorganisms lots of food to keep them multiplying and generating heat. Using a pile like this to heat a space just from the pile isn't very effective. You need to have something for transferring heat out of the pile into the area around it. A coil of hose inside the pile that links to a coil outside the pile with a reservoir and circulating pump gives you a heat exchanger to move heat from the pile interior to the greenhouse. I would suggest only running it at night, to not take too much heat from the pile and stop its action.
Good job on the compost idea. I would suggest allowing the pile to "cook" as long as its generating heat inside. When it begins to cool down you can turn it with a fork and add more matter to it. Putting a second layer of plastic on the inside of your wooden frame will give you an insulating effect if there is an airspace maintained between the plastic. People in our community use small blower fans to inflate it and keep the plastic from touching and loosing heat.
Leave it a couple of weeks to heat up properly then move the railings into a square next to the pile and shovel it all back into the next position ( sides of old pile into centre of new pile and old centre on top, ) the new pile will heat up more .its the good bacteria using the oxygen trapped inside
The compost needs to be turned a bit to speed up the composting process. That will also invite more bugs. The chickens will handle the bugs/worm issues. The composed material then can be used in your gardens to sweeten the soil for better growing. As to the lack of heating the building. A) just add another layer of plastic to the inside of the barn. but be sure to add some ventilation between the sheets or you will get mildew/mold growing between your plastic. To warm our green houses we use Black 55 gallon plastic drums filled with water inside the greenhouse. The solar heats the water. and then slowly releases it during the night. You might try that.
Great idea! I was wandering, if no one else suggested it, something simple might be to have your piles along your walls a couple of feet up to add some insulation and heating.
A double layer with a fan will help a lot. I plan to do that with my build. I have seen so may others using it. I wish you well with your compost pile. Some turn them when they cool off. Some turn every week. There are pro and cons to both ways. Arabic or anaerobic, It is fun to learn which way works best for your area. Best wishes to you. E :)
It's a small pile with plenty of moisture within. Just let it cook for a few weeks till temp drops. You'll see mold string throughout the pile. The chicks will love eating it and bugs will show up to speed the process.
Maybe you should put two 6" stove pipes vertical in your compost about three feet apart all the way to the bottom and sticking out the top about a foot. This will allow the heat deep inside to heat the Air inside the pipes and exhaust it into the room.
I built a heat harnessing system for a compost pile.THe secret is to install the pile,like on pallets to aerate the pile with some pipes.it needs oxygen to cook.I used a manifold air conditioning coil,it looks like a 3ft donut.It is installed in the center of the pile.A in and out conduit piping is installed (pex tubing).I insulated the pipes with air foil.I t enters the house and goes to a heat exchanger box. I used 5 discarded cast iron radiators.THey are installed in a series.the box is insulated, A circulation fluid is used to circulate.a thermosensor switch is used to activate a small pump at a programmable, temp.The secret is not shock the pile,Like when you are in your bed,the harnessing is 24 /7 with no combustion,It take time to warm a garden hose in your driveway continuous flow will sh shock the process with radical temp. A circulation turbine fan is installed on the heat exchanger box to heat the house
you could try putting some roosting poles over the compost pile so your chickens could have warm bums overnight from any rising heat and save on feed keeping them warm?
We rotate our compost piles 3 times during the winter, keeps the oxygen and decomposing moving in the pile, and creates a lot of heat in the green house, so much so that we grow cold crops like broccoli and lettuce in the winter ❄️, I’m tempted now to convert one for the chickens this next winter! I’m not as cold as you, maybe -15*C at the coldest so they would be cozy 🥰
This is in no way new! The gardeners in the 19th century country houses used "hot beds" in the greenhouse to heat, grow early soft fruit, and exotics like pineapple. They used straw and horse manure. The deep bed would be on the north wall, which was brick, the beds were about one metre deep with about 50cms below ground. After the First World War, due to a lack of labour and rising wages, coal and wood were used.
Hi! I am wondering why you can't put up solar panels to heat up the chicken greenhouse. I am not really a farmer but this show is so interesting. It is great to watch a show like this.
Very interesting experiment. Have you seen Eliot Colemans videos's and books on plastic covered greenhouses and layering the plastic film? Eliot and Barbara Damarish have been farming in New England for years, teaching the organic and sustainable methods for many years. I oppollogize for the misspelled names.
In wintertime I cover up my koipond with a similar woodstructure ( japanese) and a reinforced plastic, specialy made for greenhouses. A double layer seems like a very good idea. If your interrested I will send you some pictures.
when you fill it, bury several 4" duct pipes across, roughly between the middle and the bottom of the pile, were they will just stick out through an opening in the cattle fence.
enjoying your vids. If you want to measure the temp in the pile more accurately, just bury the probe directly in there. Or if you want to use a pipe, a thin capped plastic pipe not sticking out much would be better as the long big metal one will give you underestimated temperatures. Good to see you making a conscious effort to go back to nature unlike many others!
The reason it took so long for the thermometer to show the “true” reading of the compost temperature is because: you took a pipe that had been setting outside in the cold ambient air and then stuck it in the middle of the compost. It take a while for the pipe (steel) to warm up enough to stabilize with the compost temperature. Basically, the compost pile had to warm up the pipe enough to get an accurate reading.
Check out Edible acres on you tube. He adds grain to the pile, and when it sprouts the chickens love the sprouts.
The double layer of plastic with air insulation between really works! We've been using it for decades. We also use passive solar heat. We fill 55gal drums with water. The barrels are painted black on the side facing the sun, and white on the side facing the plants to increase light.
I was Thrilled to see muskovey ducks and Pomeranian saddl-back geese! Each are my favorite breeds! One video I saw said Pomeranian saddl-back geese are very rare.
You have happy chickens and that's a plus in my book.
Great stuff. I enjoy seeing how this is turning out.
Using leech lines (PVC pipes with holes) placed every foot or so in your pile will allow enough air flow and heat exchange to keep your compost healthy. I would suggest a total of 4 leech lines in that size pile, 2 equally spaced near the bottom and 2 leech lines going the other direction about a foot or so higher. Add worms, bugs and edible mushrooms along with kitchen scraps and your chickens will eat good.
I would coil and layer some black poly pipe and circulate water to a heat exchanger and back. 50 degrees centigrade is hot enough to be comfortable heat. I am not sure how big of a compost pile it would take to keep the temp at 50 degrees to heat that space. I have watched silage piles steam all winter here in Minnesota. When we did chores I would go sit in the pile and warm myself in -20 weather.
I am old enough to be your mother so I can say this: you are adorable to watch. so informative.
I think you should add some more kitchen scraps and rotted straw to the top and keep layering for a while. Once you turn it it will take days to heat up again and you lose your heating system. I would think that the heat would be more valuable to the chickens right now. You don't need the fertilizer aspect of the compost until closer to spring planting.
Another gentleman has large container where he uses leaves to compost and it warmed his greenhouse during the winter. The pile was generating 91 degrees. So placed a few more compost.piles and the mddle of winter with lots of snow on the ground the inside temperature was 79 degrees. Oh another comment on the compost piles it makes great feed for the chickens and warmth you cant go wrong placing many piles within your cold frame
Don't be afraid to try the compost on the North side from one end to the other. The sun doesn't hit that side and is usually cold, so heat there would help plus give you a couple of feet of warm insulation between the cold and the inside.
I just found your videos and enjoying watching them. I've been growing compost piles for years also raised and breed a lot of chickens. I wish I had a large enough yard for your hoop house. I agree you need to increase the height as the added pressure will help increase the decomposition. I turn my pile when it gets to 130 degrees. The chickens might be eating bugs and worms (and worm eggs) that are beneficial for the composting but the pile is so large it likely won't do much damage. If it was my compost pile I would put chicken wire around it so the chickens don't scratch it all away. Also for every layer of plastic it holds in heat to equal one gardening zone. I heat my small 6x8 hot house with a 5 gallon bucket of water with a large aquarium heater in it but that produces too much humidity. Like your idea better.
The easiest thing to do would be to put a sort of roof ontop of the pile. Something to catch the warm air and to warm up. Like a big heat sink.
At the moment your warmth is going streight up to the roof and warming up the roof. I bet there is no frost on the roof in the morning because of this.
Another idea would be to put in water pipes that can take the heat to water troughs that you dont want freezing. You could even have the pipes run to a trough outside. .
You have the heat, now you must just make use of it.
Good job
TGC
Blessings in abundance:)
If you set multiple pipes up in your composting pile so the heat would rise up and out that would give you a continual heat out into the open. IF..you had a second rack next to the first you could 'turn over' your pile from the original pile to the 2nd. You would lose some of the heat temporarily but this would add to the 'working composting in the pile'. Since you don't have full capacity of chickens you appear to have room for a 3rd rack to create a 2nd working compost pile using one to be the alternate
and rotate the piles from one to another at different times that way you would not have any 'down time' / total loss of heat like you would with just one pile. Once you have two working ventilated piles going you in theory would continuous heat even when
rotate 'turning over' one of the working piles. I can see the dead space between the layers of plastic as a big help as well. I love what you are doing. Good luck..
At the auto parts store they sell a hand held laser thermometer about $ 40.00 on sale here in the USA it's a cool tool just point and pull the trigger .l use it year round on checking farm,auto,cooking,livestock,anything you can think of ,even the sky it has paid for itself many times over especially on sealed bearings on the equiptment .
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
try putting a layer of bubble wrap over the plastic then a layer of plastic over the bubble wrap seen this done before in the north east of england
Interesting. Thanks.
Just found your channel and love it. Can't see your ventilation in poly tunnel but seriously concerned you could have a build up of dangerous gasses in there. The rotting bird poo and vegetation could cause an atmosphere that's not safe.
Great thinking. You inspired me on this cold morning in Michigan
Hello from Michigan, as well!!
There are long stem thermometers for composting. You leave the unit in the pile to gauge your piles progress.
In the bottom put a pipe for one side to the other at the bottom of the compose pile it will pull the head out but then it will rise so you put a small fan on low to move the air God bless you and you're family THANKS.
I've use a 100 x 32 Foot greenhouse with double 8 mill thick film (plastic) sitting on top of 42" cement foundation and dirt floor. Starting with 100 (3.8 cubic Ft) bags of peat moss, 5 cubic yards of horse manure and 20 cubic yards of saw dust. This was rotor tilled together NO water added. All the roosts, nest boxes, feeders and watering nipples were suspended from racks with ropes that raised them to as high as 6 feet to allow the compost to be tilled with the rototiller. It had 50 turkeys, 125 Isa Brown layers, 200 broilers, 50 french guineas. Once or twice a week would till the compost to keep it working (heating up). By spring there would be about 2 feet of compost. It kept the greenhouse above freezing all winter long and the auto-watering system from freezing. Never added water to this at all because the birds droppings were plenty moist enough to keep the compost working (heating up). Each spring we removed all but 6 inches of the compost for the gardens. What was left was tilled as usual and by the following spring it was 2 foot deep without adding any thing but what the birds we leaving behind. To keep the birds away for the rototiller we used a plastic snow fence stretched across greenhouse herding the birds to opposite ends as we tilled. When finished it rolled up and removed to keep it clean (the snow fence). Have run, out of time but will tell you later how we kept feed cost very low by growing sprouts to feed them.
Thanks for the info.
Great Video, your doing a wonderful service for others to learn and try new things,
Firstly insulate the ground under the stack.
If the purpose is to use the warmth to heat the air then a pipe system with an input close to the stack can travel through the stack split in to numerous outlets and be warm on its way out especially if the exit is higher. 50mm pipe with three or four pipe runs coming off it.
Hadn't realised it would be that warm. Very impressed, you could run pipes through that and heat a house!
Yes. We are right now talking about that on a bigger scale with the other families on the farm.
Swedish Homestead n
Adding wood ash to compost pile really increases temperature. Urine too. Add some good compost dirt from another area to inoculate with microbes. Swamp water.
You are doing very well. Love the scale of your project
An idea I have seen is to take plastic water piping and run it through the pile and have a small solar pump circulating the water through a radiator and it will give off heat and keep the greenhouse above freezing
There are great videos out on this topic but I agree you need the heat not the soil until spring. I saw a video how they used compost piles to heat water for showering. So weave pipes through the center to heat greenhouse.
Your Urine/water mixed at a 1/9 ratio which will provide Urea, minerals and much more good stuff.
The bacteria in the compost will love it! You could also use some conductive tubing within the pile and use an external radiator to heat the greenhouse and buffer the compost temp so it does not overheat.
For insulation you can use cheap bubble wrap that is used for packaging glued to the existing greenhouse plastic.
All the best
Thanks.
Compost needs lots of moisture to function properly hence the reason to dilute the urine along with the fact th it would spread more evenly throughout the pile.
Are you basically saying you could pump water to a radiator, through the compost pile like you would a stove and this works?
@B = indeed. There are quite a few videos out there explaining the concept. Here's one where they use the water for hot showers: czcams.com/video/-Jm-c9B2_ew/video.html but you could also run it through a radiator.
I know nothing about chickens, composting, homesteading...but your chickens seem to love the compost pile! Keeps their feet warm =) I look forward to following your channel.
Aside from adding some piping for air like others suggested. The only other thing I know of to add to a compost pile is worms. If you were to use them to help break things down I'd dig a shallow hole, dump them in and then cover it with the shovel like you did with the thermometer so the chickens don't gobble them up right away. They'll migrate into the pile, and eventually the chickens will get them. If they realize they are in there it may make them dig through the pile more to try and find them.
There were a lot of worms added to it when I build the pile. Check out the video.
You are doing such a great job with your chickens and your farm. The compost biota and also the ruminant manure is very beneficial for the chickens, but they probably get most of their nutrients from the food scraps that Karl Hammer makes his Vermont compost from. Since your compost pile does not contain food scraps in large enough quantities to feed all the chickens that you have, you could use a Joel Salatin trick and sprinkle the chicken grain into the compost so the chickens will spend more time digging into it. I am really impressed with your channel, keep up the great videos :)
Mollison had a story about a greenhouse in Kentucky where they were growing mangos. The heat source for this greenhouse was five hundred chickens. ;) The chickens will warm the space themselves, if there are enough of them...
You should also add some blood from the chicken and turkeys you slaughter to your compost pile. It helps a lot because the blood is rich in a lot of minerals useful for the plants as well.
Very nice experiment. Geoff Lawton and his chicken tractor spread out the compost frequently and had finished compost within a month or two.
Well, others have said this, but just to drive the point home, I grew up in a family of greenhouse owner / operators, near Chicago in the US. A double layer of plastic with air blown in between was an absolute must to keep the greenhouses warm in the winter, otherwise the boilers could not keep up, and the heating bill would be too expensive. All you need to do is throw a piece of plastic over the top that will cover the entire arch, and secure it at the perimeter. No need to leave slack for air space - there will be sufficient space when it is inflated.
There should be simple squirrel cage blowers that you can use. We mounted them on a piece of plywood for support, inside the greenhouse (of course, to protect it from the weather). Inflating the layer with warmer air from the inside keeps snow and ice from accumulating on the plastic and collapsing the insulating layer in the winter.
Without an insulating layer of air, the heat inside easily radiates through the plastic and is lost.
HI Simeon, if you put 1-2 cm strapping over your wooden ribs on the greenhouse, you could attach a second layer of plastic, and get your airspace without needing a fan. A small pellet stove with a 24 hour feeder would help as well.
We have thought about that too for a while... We'll see.
Seems like your chickens are excited about the pile too. Even in a little backyard garden I keep adding veggies, cardboard torn up & shreds of paper & coffee grounds. It can get very cold. The snow always melts off the pile. I can always turn the pile. Not to mention my garden loves the soil I make for it.
You need to mix brown material which is carbon like straw and dry leaves with green material like fresh grass and mature which is nitrogen to have a proper compost mix. The ratio is about 3 to 1. The more green the smellier and hotter it with get. But it won't break do as fast, that why you bulk it up with brown material. A long time ago the garbage dumps would spread all the Fall leaves over the garbage just before closing. In the areas where this was done the garbage decomposted faster and gave off more gas, which was burned off. The laws changed that you couldn't mix the two, now the garbage takes longer to decompose. I had organic gardens for decades, check the Ph of your soil after you mix in your compost. Ph determines if the plants will pick up the nutrients or not.
Nice setup & great idea on heating up the greenhouse. I hope to do that on a smaller scale once I get my greenhouse structures up and on dirt so there's no worries on rotting my barn's wooden floor.
In the U.K. We usually cover our green houses with bubble wrap in winter but yours is huge.
In school i have learned that the tempreture goes up to 60/62 degrees celcius. I should wait until t is coold down again than you can turn it. So the outside can be composed. If you do it te early you wil waist energie because the inside is not done composting and needs to warm up again. Mayby a tip for your spring project to have one compost pile tarped up with plastic so you can see te differens between composting and fermenting. Tanks for your great video's
Thanks.
This is just a fascinating video and the first of your channel that I have seen. I have been watching videos where the owners are heating with compost and yours came into my feed. I am so glad I found your channel. Great video and I am going to keep watching. Good luck with your projects.
if you ever decide to raise rabbits, you can mount the cages over worm beds with their poop falling through. only in winter have the rabbits in there as it would be to hot for them in the summer. they will warm the greenhouse along with the worm/compost beds. great channel.
You treat your animals much better than most modern farms
Run a few pieces of perforated drainage tile through the bed to supply air. Saves turning
Great to see you and your family- Blessings from America.
Another interesting video, Simeon. Good comments as well.
Have you tried shaping the compost heap into a triangle or pyramid shape? Make it as long and tall as you have room for in your poly tunnel and let the chickens turn it, Just reform it into a long triangle shape as often as you can..It will heat up that way.
I would not open it until it starts to cool down for a few days then that is telling you it needs turned good luck
Ok. Thanks.
watch videos on " JEAN PAIN METHOD"
Simeon, I really enjoy your channel, they are full of useful information. My concern on this composting heat gathering is that as plant material s composting it makes gas. as in methane. if your greenhouse is relatively airtight you could wake up to dead chickens. Our garbage dumps have pipes down into the garbage to bring up the methane and burn it off as it comes out the tops of the piles😶
Michele Staples Ventilation is a concern when composting or using deep bedding. I'd be interested to hear what Simeon thinks about this.
Our greenhouse is not airtight. I think there is plenty of draft for ventilation.
Simeon. I was raised in the greenhouse business (pun intended ). We always used the two layers of plastic with an inflation fan. It makes a tremendous difference . You are able to keep more of that solar heat gain inside . John Suscovich @ Farm marketing solutions tried something similar to this with his flock a few winters ago. He said it wasn't for him but I think you might be on the right track. Keep up the good work.
The Tomte
Thanks. I think I will try it next time we change the plastic.
Thank you so much for filming your trials. I am absolutely learning from you on how to do it right when we get chickens. We have never had a steaming compost pile...I think it might be from adding too many greens and not enough browns to the pile.
Thanks. Maybe you are right about your pile. We are all learning together here.
Agree with old time engineer, MHP Gardener did a good video on the two layers as well. All the best!
I’m thinking that this space could use another pile since it only alters the height of the surface for the chickens. Another thought that comes to mind relative to. Driving more heat of the piles and that is to line the sides with plastic to concentrate the heat and moisture. Through this trail I’d be looking for ideal timing in turning or consider adding pipe internally to circulate air and drain moisture from the interior. Though I realize that is only part of the scope of which approaches to combine for your ideal. Looks to be a great experiment and one that offers several different outputs or products for your use.
Very interested in the progress and what you find to be good insights in the process there in the climate around you.
4 inch flex pipe in a circle in pile with a very slow fan inside will circulate the air in pile
Just a thought but if you were to run a couple of hundred metres of water filled plastic pipe through that pile and then pump that water around the greenhouse that would heat the place up real nice
That would be bad and you would lower the temp of the compost to the point it would no longer be effective.
No need to add pipe, the heat is in the greenhouse. KISS
I visited an earth ship where they had just outside, a pile of woodchips, with coiled plastic pipe in the middle. They used it to heat their water. Once in a while the pile was turned or when no longer able to cook new chips were brought in. I've also seen food cooked in plastic bags in a compost heap.
no the water into barrels would act as a heat sink
That is brilliant, and seemingly works great, provided that the pile is big enough or continuosly added to. Check out Michael Paine+ compost heat!
I suggest looking into the Jean Pain method, where you put some sort of tank filled with water in the center of the pile and run pex or flexible plastic piping out to a number of baseboard style heaters within the greenhouse. You'd get a LOT more heat in your greenhouse, with better heat distribution throughout the greenhouse as well.
look at Sir Albert Howards Indore compost method, perfect for your homestead, and Steve Solomon composting audio book is well worth listening to.
you need to aerate the pile a bit ... it does not have enough oxygen yet.
What if you add perforated drain pipes under your pile to aerate it from the bottom. You can also add more pipes to let the heat escape the compost into the green house. Heat is a byproduct of the bacteria working their magic, but compost doesn't absolutely need the heat to keep composting and can actually kill the bacteria if it gets too hot so might as well harvest the most we can.
pour branches under a layer of 0.5 meters. There is a layer of straw on them. Straw material. Cover the top with a layer of wet straw. And branches from chickens.
Run a pipe under the compost pile and blow air in it with a small fan that will heat your greenhouse and make the compost develop faster.
I think old time is right, a temperature drop would indicate it's ready for aeration. But if you're intending to let the chickens help do the turning, you may want to open the gates now; It will take them a while to dig down. You do realize their will be a temporary drop in heat production when the compost is spread out I hope. We always had a smaller more enclosed roosting area inside our chicken house where they could huddle together and share body heat during extreme cold. Metal perches are cold on their feet also, maybe lay some wooden dowels across the compost pile.
2 thoughts I'd add: firstly, if you block the top of the pipe you may get a more accurate reading as the heat will rise out of the pipe. Maybe stuff some bubble wrap in the top? secondly, a hot compost pile will keep a lot of the insect life out of the pile and therefore mean less food for the chickens. Maybe just a warm pile might be a good thing to aim for?
Thanks for the tips.
Your compost heap looks great. Perhaps some black plastic around the sides would help and also if you got some black plastic barrels (55 gal.) filled with water around edge of your greenhouse would absorb sunlight/infrared heat and re-radiate into your greenhouse at night. Nice job.
To heat the greenhouse you should try taking gallon jugs paint them black fill them with water and put them in the green house. The sun will heat the jugs throught the day and slowly release the heat throughtout the night.
Put the air vent through the compost heap, the compost would heat the vent pipe and the fan will distribute the hot air.
the rubble plastic trice works well plus stops water and mold in side
you can lift the pole fence to get the pile higher and create more heat.
Place piping in the pile with a low blower on the intake, of course keep the exhaust somewhere that cant burn the birds when it is blowing. One pipe across (maybe pvc 3" or so) with numerous pipes coming out from a T in the first pipe. Kind of like a garden rake style. And make the "tines" pipes so they are long enough that they rise above the pile a few inches above the chickens.( maybe put a bigger pipe around the risers so they are insulated against the inner pipe?) And if you use a blower on it then of course you would want to block one end of the first pipe, the horizontal pipe. You might not even need a blower at those temps tho. Thats some high heat, it may cause the air to flow naturally without a blower. If the first pipes work, you might want to install maybe 3 or 4 sets in the pile.
Look up Dr Elaine Ingham for more compost info. You want the inside if the pile to reach 131 degrees F for 3 days then turn all the outside part of the pile to the middle and let it get the same temp for another 3 days. This will kill all the bad stuff like salmonella E. Coli as well as plant diseases. I think you have enough room in there to make a lot of piles and that will warm up the greenhouse more. Also making bigger piles to hold the heat better
If you double layer your plastic with the fan blowing air between them I guarantee it will not freeze inside anymore. Maybe without the compost but especially with it and the chickens
124°F / 51.3°C is a nice heater. Next time I see a straw bale left on the road, I'm picking it up.
DIY farmer has a great video about winter farming in a green house. he explains the air blanket method of insulating a green house in Colorado.
Ok. Thanks. I will check that out.
Chickens and ducks love a compost pile. Even free range chickens will pick through compost if they have access to it.
At about 54C would be time to turn the compost. You don't want to wait for the temperature to drop on a pile that you're going to try to keep active and hot. The dropping temperature means that the active biology is decreasing - it's out of food. Before that happens, you turn the pile so that there is fresh material from the outside introduced into the core, giving the microorganisms lots of food to keep them multiplying and generating heat. Using a pile like this to heat a space just from the pile isn't very effective. You need to have something for transferring heat out of the pile into the area around it. A coil of hose inside the pile that links to a coil outside the pile with a reservoir and circulating pump gives you a heat exchanger to move heat from the pile interior to the greenhouse. I would suggest only running it at night, to not take too much heat from the pile and stop its action.
The stars bail idea is a good. You should be able to create a cavity without blowing air
Good job on the compost idea. I would suggest allowing the pile to "cook" as long as its generating heat inside. When it begins to cool down you can turn it with a fork and add more matter to it. Putting a second layer of plastic on the inside of your wooden frame will give you an insulating effect if there is an airspace maintained between the plastic. People in our community use small blower fans to inflate it and keep the plastic from touching and loosing heat.
Leave it a couple of weeks to heat up properly then move the railings into a square next to the pile and shovel it all back into the next position ( sides of old pile into centre of new pile and old centre on top, ) the new pile will heat up more .its the good bacteria using the oxygen trapped inside
Added to wrong CZcams clip sorry
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this experiment. Your poultry look very healthy and happy.
The compost needs to be turned a bit to speed up the composting process. That will also invite more bugs. The chickens will handle the bugs/worm issues. The composed material then can be used in your gardens to sweeten the soil for better growing. As to the lack of heating the building. A) just add another layer of plastic to the inside of the barn. but be sure to add some ventilation between the sheets or you will get mildew/mold growing between your plastic. To warm our green houses we use Black 55 gallon plastic drums filled with water inside the greenhouse. The solar heats the water. and then slowly releases it during the night. You might try that.
Great idea! I was wandering, if no one else suggested it, something simple might be to have your piles along your walls a couple of feet up to add some insulation and heating.
A double layer with a fan will help a lot. I plan to do that with my build. I have seen so may others using it. I wish you well with your compost pile. Some turn them when they cool off. Some turn every week. There are pro and cons to both ways. Arabic or anaerobic, It is fun to learn which way works best for your area.
Best wishes to you. E :)
Thank you.
It's a small pile with plenty of moisture within. Just let it cook for a few weeks till temp drops. You'll see mold string throughout the pile. The chicks will love eating it and bugs will show up to speed the process.
Thanks.
Nice job! Enjoy your videos.
Thanks.
You could bury a big pvc pipe, capped on the bottom and fill with water while its cooking to add humidity.
At 160F (C?) you need to turn the piles that it does not become anaerobic. It only takes half a day to heat up if built properly.
Maybe you should put two 6" stove pipes vertical in your compost about three feet apart all the way to the bottom and sticking out the top about a foot. This will allow the heat deep inside to heat the Air inside the pipes and exhaust it into the room.
I built a heat harnessing system for a compost pile.THe secret is to install the pile,like on pallets to aerate the pile with some pipes.it needs oxygen to cook.I used a manifold air conditioning coil,it looks like a 3ft donut.It is installed in the center of the pile.A in and out conduit piping is installed (pex tubing).I insulated the pipes with air foil.I t enters the house and goes to a heat exchanger box. I used 5 discarded cast iron radiators.THey are installed in a series.the box is insulated, A circulation fluid is used to circulate.a thermosensor switch is used to activate a small pump at a programmable, temp.The secret is not shock the pile,Like when you are in your bed,the harnessing is 24 /7 with no combustion,It take time to warm a garden hose in your driveway continuous flow will sh shock the process with radical temp. A circulation turbine fan is installed on the heat exchanger box to heat the house
Nice. We have been looking into this on a bigger scale. It is called Biomeiler. We want to use wood chips for it.
you could try putting some roosting poles over the compost pile so your chickens could have warm bums overnight from any rising heat and save on feed keeping them warm?
Some of them sit there already...
We rotate our compost piles 3 times during the winter, keeps the oxygen and decomposing moving in the pile, and creates a lot of heat in the green house, so much so that we grow cold crops like broccoli and lettuce in the winter ❄️, I’m tempted now to convert one for the chickens this next winter! I’m not as cold as you, maybe -15*C at the coldest so they would be cozy 🥰
This is in no way new! The gardeners in the 19th century country houses used "hot beds" in the greenhouse to heat, grow early soft fruit, and exotics like pineapple. They used straw and horse manure. The deep bed would be on the north wall, which was brick, the beds were about one metre deep with about 50cms below ground. After the First World War, due to a lack of labour and rising wages, coal and wood were used.
Hi! I am wondering why you can't put up solar panels to heat up the chicken greenhouse. I am not really a farmer but this show is so interesting. It is great to watch a show like this.
Very interesting experiment. Have you seen Eliot Colemans videos's and books on plastic covered greenhouses and layering the plastic film? Eliot and Barbara Damarish have been farming in New England for years, teaching the organic and sustainable methods for many years. I oppollogize for the misspelled names.
No. I will have to check them out.
In wintertime I cover up my koipond with a similar woodstructure ( japanese) and a reinforced plastic, specialy made for greenhouses. A double layer seems like a very good idea. If your interrested I will send you some pictures.
when you fill it, bury several 4" duct pipes across, roughly between the middle and the bottom of the pile, were they will just stick out through an opening in the cattle fence.
enjoying your vids. If you want to measure the temp in the pile more accurately, just bury the probe directly in there. Or if you want to use a pipe, a thin capped plastic pipe not sticking out much would be better as the long big metal one will give you underestimated temperatures. Good to see you making a conscious effort to go back to nature unlike many others!
So many good hints. Amazing concept.