You're Wrong About Object Classes
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- čas přidán 11. 11. 2019
- There's actually audio of me ranting about this stuff for almost 20 more minutes but I cut it out.
Object class flowchart is from here: / the_more_the_merrier_m...
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The image of Doctor Cimmerian was created by Perelka_L.
Channel art was created by TheVolgun - Zábava
Safe: smallpox in a frozen grave in the arctic
Euclid: smallpox in the old world
Keter: smallpox in the new world
Explained: smallpox after microscopes
Neutralized: smallpox after vaccines
Thaumiel: smallpox after it kills off all the anti-vaxers
Thaumiel: another disease that would eat the smallpox
*_the smallpox explanation_*
Thaumil: smallpox in that one kid who has anti-vax parents
Ticonderoga: Al Gore suffering from Smallpox.
If there’s anything we know about SCP, it’s that we’re wrong about it.
We're propably wrong about that too
Dr.Cimmerian: You're wrong
That depends. The SCP community is a growing and changing memetic organism. As more people become aware of it the protocols have to adapt and change. So there's plenty of opportunity to be wrong about stuff.
Memetic SCP that makes what people know/believe about it suddenly become incorrect, therefore it is always something different than what people believe to be. Class: Cimmerian.
mean while Dr. Cimmerian: your wrong about existence
Normal SCP User: Hey you know tha-
Dr. Cimmerian: *You're wrong about...*
More like hey scp is like..
*Slapped in the face by doc c*
_your wrong_
Your going down Rommel
@@seanw1186 Nein
Dr. Bright...? What did you break this time, why are you here? What have you done?
When is the next test?
*Cimmerian has been affected by a memetic hazard that causes him to refute all claims of knowledge on any subject.*
First known case: Sophocles
Sounds like Donald Trump
Cimmerian: there is no "super-keter"
Apollyon: am I a joke to you?!
Cimmerian: See, here's where you're wrong about -j...
Apollyon isn't super-keter because apollyon by definition can not be contained or stopped
Appolyon is what he meant by "super keter."
Wasnt apollyon like the more dangerous keter not harder to contain
@@SlendyWinky apollyon is impossible to contain/it WILL activate no matter what you do
Best object class: -Awesome- Totally Safe
We keep it down in Room ███ in the basement of Building ██ at Site-██. The password is ███████.
It is to be submerged ▇▇▇▇ kg of ▇▇▇▇▇▇ just so it doesn't ▇▇▇▇▇▇▇ and spill pepsi on Dr. ▇▇▇▇▇▇
No i think the best object class is keter oh god kill it
KUOG that’s my object class
What about apollyon
"What about Apollyon?"
- the comments section
Time to be wrong about Apollyon I guess
Uh oh
I mean, that's not like the wiki had a whole page about canon classification or anything
apollyon: apollyon class means that the foundation has no way of containing the scp or something like that
Of the esoteric classes the only one that makes since is Archon, as having anomalies that are required for the world to function is an interesting idea. Although knowing how the Foundation operates they would slap it in a box and call it Keter anyways.
Jesse Zeller-Davis You’d be surprised
Jesse Zeller-Davis
Never read an Archon before.
I wonder if Death would be considered an Archon, since it is containable (Omega-K), it is a being (in multiple hubs), & it can be avoided (many many immortal SCPs).
Is the Architect technically Archon then?
@@Tinkering4Time To a degree, yes.
Reminds me of End of Death Scenario and that SCP where someone feels what happens to every atom of their body after they die and one of the O5'straight up saying, "We should declare human death as a Keter-class SCP." It would also make sense for immortals to be a thing, just get out of the anomaly's effect.
I always took the Safe, Euclid, Keter to be a reflection of hazard safety protocols in the workplace.
1. Lowest level - Remove the item, put the item away. Any person can do this and one the hazard is removed/contained it is no longer a threat.
2. Medium Level - Training and Education. Dealing with this hazard requires specialised training, and handling/cleaning up should be left to a professional to prevent additional risk.
3. High level - The Hazard can only be contained or used by people using specialised PPE or equipment and Anybody not qualified or experienced with said equipment should not be in the area.
In that regard an 0. "Neutralized" and 4."Uncontained" make sense as a risk or hazard can also be neutralized, and no longer requires a hazard protocol, and if the situation is still an ongoing threat it would be unconstrained or a 'live' hazard using work health safety protocols. .
Kirsty Shadowdancer this parallels what I just wrote above in many ways:
“It almost sounds like an argument can be made that the object classes are aggregated from prior systems from pre-Foundation groups. I think it can be stated that the class names can describe perceptual relationships between Foundation personnel and anomalies.
Safe: YOU CAN LOCK IT IN A SAFE AND IT IS NOT A PROBLEM.
Euclid: easy shorthand description that it can be contained with “Euclidean” aka normalistic, understandable systems. It may be crazy-deep formerly-theoretical physics, but its physics.
Keter: This stuff is OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE, MORTAL. The kind of thing that requires anomalistic phenomena to contain.
Thaumiel: the “anti-keter”, but not so much dualistic (Good v. Evil) as a toolbox of anomalies (literal and metaphorical *applied phlebotinum*) for handling and containing anomalies that require a Keter designation. Thaumiel is a classification useful to personnel that make plans and executive decisions regarding Securing, Containing, and Protecting.”
In universe, the Foundation would still keep records of neutralized SCPs, if not just for looking back at their past history, what is to say that a "neutralized" SCP wouldn't become revived/reactivated?
A nuclear bomb in a box that nobody knows about is Safe.
A text file that explains how to make a nuclear bomb which people know you're in position of is Euclid.
A chain email which sends itself automatically to everyone it can and which becomes a nuclear bomb when viewed is Keter.
Safe: Not actually safe but whatever
Euclid: Yep it moves
Keter: The most dangerous class. Require huge amounts of resources and effort to contain.
Apollyon: scru u
F. C. archeon: you can, but dont
@@lunarsorrow6966 Ticonderoga: I mean... sure? I guess you can if you want to? But why would you want to?
Thaumiel: I am the box
Kannonball neutralized: it ded
@@lunarsorrow6966 Explained: We know u now.
"You're wrong about KETER pronounciation" when?
keter griffiin
Here it is:
czcams.com/video/w1xxeLrjpGs/video.html
McAkkeezz Object Class: Skeeter
Its keter not keeeter
HEY ©️ETER
Apollyon class is like my dirty, guilty pleasure on the wiki. I love reading articles with it.
I really liked when day breaks. It was extremely well written, and pretty scary.
scp 3999 is great example of this
Yea i read the whole serie 1 scp's
Safe: probably won’t come out of the box
Euclid: Might come out of the box if you’re not careful
Keter: will almost definitely come out of the box at some point, even if you’re careful
Thaumiel: IS the box
Apollyon: suddenly there is no box and everyone is dead and everything is on fire
Better description of Apollyon: If you, the world, and everyone you have ever loved is on fire and no cosmic fire extinguishers exist to put it out, it’s Apollyon
I hate that people slap Keter on anything dangerous. If you have a button that would melt the universe, than it would be safe, as it is easy to contain
Just cut the wires and boom: neutralised!
I think a lot of people are familiar with the box analogy
Or safe/apollyon
Scp-001-J
That chart of object classes looks really complicated. I look forward to seeing if Cimmerian can break it all down.
Spoiler alert: he doesn't explain/break it down at all
I’m disappointed it doesn’t have “Glorious”
He explains the basic classes anyone reading the wiki absolutely has to know, but I was hoping he'd go into detail about other. He could have talked about unusual classes he has used. SCP-4113 is class Hera
The chart is very self explanatory actually. It doesn't have every object class that has been used, there's too many to put in a small flow chart, but it does show the more notable ones, explain them and give examples of what they are.
Most of them are one off classess that can be pretty much ignored. It's not complicated at all if you take them out.
Alt title: cimmerian forgers about appolyon for 11 minuets.
Hailix Apollyon is a super Keter
Apollyon is a bit of a hot topic for the on-site community, and it's been debated if it should be considered a standard object class, though a large portion of the fanbase has already started treating it that way, largely due to a few popular articles utilizing it (When Day Breaks; 3999; 2317, the original Apollyon, before it was changed by the author years after it was posted). Calling it Super Keter kind of undermines the point of Apollyon; it's generally treated as an admission of defeat, to signify something is completely uncontainable, with no room for damage control.
Really though, esoteric classes as a whole kind of deserve their own video at this point.
I was expecting the video to end with, "Oh, and also there's Apollyon. *Fuck Apollyon.*"
Alt alt tittle: Hailix forgets how to spell “forgets” for at least 1 hour.
Rand Omper Son if it’s treated as an admission of defeat, that seems to go against foundation principles. Like there’s a sleeping sea slug 2000 km long in the ocean that the foundation admits if it woke up they couldn’t do anything to stop it, but it’s still classified as “Keter”.
I think Keter is supposed to mean “we cannot contain it well or at all, so we better get researching to find ways of containing it better”. Because that’s what the foundation does. They don’t just destroy anomalies, they contain them and study them, and apply what they learn to protecting the human race from the anomalous.
Keter class to SCP is basically like the word "ultimate" to Ubisoft. They'll sell you the "ultimate" edition of a game, but that won't actually be the top tier, there's at least six levels of more expensive higher tier versions of the same game they'll try to sell you.
99 percent of the esoteric classes are single use and most of them could probably do without one
And every new 001 seems to try and invent a new one.
Well the good 001 can fit in the 1 percent
@@supe4701 yeah true. I hope cimmerrian does a big your wrong about scp 001. You ever read the meta ike proposal? Couldn't even finish it damn thing just got to confusing.
I understand "safe" as "you can put it in a safe and you're done."
So basically in real life:
Safe: A dollar bill
Euclid: Humans
Keter: CoVid-19
Thaumiel: The Large Hadron Collider
Explained: Gravity
Neutralized: Osama Bin Laden
Apollyon: Earthquakes
What does thaumiel have anything to do with hardron collider, also gravity is the only basic force that is unexplained idk why would you choose it and how is earthquake apollyon, it's not even that dangerous and killed less people than car accident
@@Noname-67 y u do me like dat😿
I just now realized that cimmerian removed the "probably" in the titles.
He complained enough about the word "probably" in his 682 video.
Well, I think most people when they say super-keter or whatever, they mean you can't put it in the box for it to escape from.
but thats regular keter
case and point **|*****|**|* (i think). the shadow figure that can only be described with images or fake stories.
The box also wants to get out
@@KatsuhiroHebi no, it's **/*****/**/*. But yeah that's similar i'd say.
Safe -> Put it in a box: Nothing happens
Euclid -> Put it in a box: It might leave the box.
Keter -> Put it in a box: It will leave the box.
Thaumiel -> It is the box.
Neutralized -> It's in a box 6 feet deep
Examples:
Safe -> scp 914
=> A giant machine that's not going anywhere.
Euclid -> scp 173
=> Dangerous as all hell but can be contained provided we follow necessary steps.
Keter -> scp *****| ** | *
=> It cannot be contained and will leave when it's activated on top of being near impossible to monitor all potential vectors of it's activation.
Thaumiel -> scp 004-J
=> During containment breach of 106: Rather than panic or hide, SCP-004-J began discussing the importance of residual income and annuities when structuring a quarterly budget. SCP-106 appeared rapt with attention, materialized a business card and agreed to join SCP-004-J for a "lunch and learn" at his soonest convenience.
Neutralized -> scp 1762
=> :(
@@TheUltraDinoboy Paper Dragon Box
Singularity Apollyon -> SCP 001 day breaks: R U N F O R Y O U R L I F E
@@vintage3103 Good thing scp-2000 exists.
Appolyon -> Run for your life you absolute fool
"It's in a box 6 feet deep" ahahahahah
Dr. Cimmerian: It can't be "very perfect."
Super Perfect Cell: "Am I a joke to you?"
I think that taking the "super-keter" object classes and changing what they actually mean would be a good step. Rather than talking about how difficult it is to contain, you could make it about the peculiarity of it's containment. It could be essentially Safe, for example, but the Foundation had a rough time with it cause even by SCP standards it was odd.
Sean Miller like a sentient blade of grass only blind people can communicate with?
But no matter what there is always 1 sentient blade of grass on Earth at any given time?
@@Jessie_Helms yo write this shit as an actual doc id love to read it ahahaha
Here’s my thought about Keter.
What if the Foundation, in universe, originally labeled threats like Abel Keter while thinking they were “crown” level threats?
Then they discovered the ‘super Keter’ level threats.
Humans being naturally lazy they decided to add a ‘higher’ class rather than downgrading multiple items to Euclid.
Justin Helms but they do in fact downgrade them as containment procedures are developed.
Tinkering4Time yes but Abel is still Keter, even though the Scarlet King exists.
So making Abel Euclid doesn’t make sense, even though he’s a speck by comparison
Justin Helms, Able also has his magical regeneration sarcophagus that A. seems to be hinted as the only way to permanently stop him and B. The Foundation does not understand how it works or how to lock it again without the keys.
The sarcophagus is as much a part of the “Able” SCP as Able himself.
Bella
Tinkering4Time thats both true and doesn’t change the validity of my point.
Sounds to me like Apollyon should be used for things that we can never hope to contain. Another universe would probably be Apollyon.
I prefer a new object class: Evangellyon
It cannot possible be contained, but it doesn’t exactly give you a reason to want to contain it any further than Amnestization. For example,The Godly quartet in Pokémon Platinum would be Evangellyon because they cannot be contained further than Amnestization, but they don’t pose an immediate threat to the safety of the world, unlike Apollyon, which is described more or less as an SCP that cannot be contained and is actively causing an XK. Did that make sense? Idk honestly.
That's just appolyon and Archon rolled into one
Safe, Euclid and Keter are classifications for the term SCP, so in reality, the ranking system DOES make sense, I mean, its relatively safe from civilization, euclid, it poses a light threat and may breach containment, and keter, there is a good chance of breaching containment. Kind of just have to think about it for a second for it to make sense. (edit: also, its not super common for a safe scp, so its best to do it this way so the classifications are more spread out)
Dr.Cimmerian:"Acting all smug and superior"
Also Dr.Cimmerian:has whole series telling people they're wrong about things
Dr. Cimmerian: Keter is the top
Apollyon: *laughs*
One j scp can clap all apollyon svps
Kinda disappointed, felt like you'd go into the Object Classes a bit more. Good video overall though.
The description says he cut out about 20 minutes of him rambling on about it, which kind of sucks. I would've liked to hear his ramblings lol
...."But I'm not here to tell you how you're not wrong..."
ROTFLMAO. You need to pull that one more often. This is a worthy running gag!!
Noone :
Cimmerian :
There is no Easter Bunny,
There is no Tooth Fairy and
There is no Super Keter
Apollyon : *Sad Apollyon noises*
im wrong about everything even about this sentence
And I’m wrong about this comment
A Common Communist Dictator I’m wrong about this reply
fuq
Night Mind gave a nice and humorous breakdown of the main object classes in one of his SCP videos
I clicked on this thinking i was gonna learn something about object oriented programming. but i wasn't dissapointed.
IM WRONG ABOUT r/dankmemesfromsite19 AM I? HUH MR CIMMERIAN, AM I??!?
Some of you might wonder how I can say "don't use esoteric classes" when I did exactly that. It's because I'm a hypocrite. Pay attention!
Also support this channel here: www.patreon.com/DCimmerian
As a big fan of Lovecraftian horror I couldn't resist looking up SCPs with Azathoth object classification (SCP-4626). Fantastic article, sort of poking a bit of fun at the classification scheme.
2662: am i a joke to you
It's been so long since I last watched this episode and the ending bit really got me.
You're Wrong About Object Classes he says, then proceeds to tell me exactly what I already knew about object classes...thanks
To make some references about object classes (taken from a comment I saw around on youtube and only considering standard classification):
-Imagine a button that destroys the universe once pressed, and explicitly says so in a note near it. Since you can just keep it in a box, nobody will ever press it, hence it is considered safe class.
-Now imagine a harmless cow that teleports to a random field of grass across the world to eat, and lives just like a normal cow would. The cow causes no harm to anybody, but since she can just teleport out of containment at any time, she is considered keter class.
8:39 “Something can’t be super perfect, that’s just not possible.” Cell from dragon ball z would like to know your location.
me enjoying the wiki...
Dr.Cimmerian: *WRONG*
Stop having fun wrong
The word “keter”, in Hebrew, is actually pronounced “KEH-tehr”, so I guess everyone’s wrong here lol
i didn't see this before I posted but I wanted to say the same thing lol
Well, its offers the least significance
He said it in the video
@@simplesack_ I was just about to say that.
It almost sounds like an argument can be made that the object classes are aggregated from prior systems from pre-Foundation groups. I think it can be stated that the class names can describe perceptual relationships between Foundation personnel and anomalies.
Safe: YOU CAN LOCK IT IN A SAFE AND IT IS NOT A PROBLEM.
Euclid: easy shorthand description that it can be contained with “Euclidean” aka normalistic, understandable systems. It may be crazy-deep formerly-theoretical physics, but its physics.
Keter: This stuff is OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE, MORTAL. The kind of thing that requires anomalistic phenomena to contain.
Thaumiel: the “anti-keter”, but not so much dualistic (Good v. Evil) as a toolbox of anomalies (literal and metaphorical *applied phlebotinum*) for handling and containing anomalies that require a Keter designation. Thaumiel is a classification useful to personnel that make plans and executive decisions regarding Securing, Containing, and Protecting.
3:20 I think the reason a lot of people think safe class only means difficulty of containment because of there being a several safe scp's that are kinda dangerous like the foot stealing bed.
The scariest thing in the SCP universe is when Dr. Cimmerian calls out your name to subscribe. My heart skipped a beat there
As I understood it:
Safe - can be put in a safe and forgotten about
Euclid - further testing or study required as it is not properly understood
Keter - dangerous and likely to escape without expensive containment procedures
Thaumiel - can make a safe for a keter, or at least assist in containment or protection
Apollyon - the world can easily end because of this and thing this is how or why it hasn’t
That reminds, I like how the game lobotomy corporation categorizes their abnormalities. Which is often based on risk of using the abnormalities and the level of danger they pose if they breach containment. Zayin being the lowest, Teth is the common level, He is the much more dangerous but still manageable, while Waw is a monstrosity when escaped and can cause major damage, and finally on the list is Aleph class which (I have not found yet) if this thing breaches.... hopefully you didn’t lose everybody because these things are suppose to be god-like death.
Apollyon scp documents are the equivalent of a sign that says " if your reading this you're most probably dead."
07:30
Name: Toddler
Class: Keter
I like Apollyon as an object class as well because it is used to describe something that cannot be contained at all.
Safe: put it in a box and you’ll be fine
Elucid: put in a box and who knows
Keter: put in a box and all hell will break loose
"Things can't be very perfect"
Super Perfect Cell: that's where ur wrong bucko
No one:
Dr. Cimmerian: You're Wrong About Life
Me: Okay
What about apollyon? Isn’t that one basically just “impossible to contain”
Apollyon translates to “Angel Of Death”. It’s something nearly or truly impossible to contain and extremely dangerous.
Well if you put a safe scp in a box nothing happens
If you put a euclid scp in a box you dont know what will happen
If you put a keter scp in a box its gonna destroy the box (and probably the facility or more)
An scp is thaumial if its usefull to the foundation
If you put an apollyon scp in a box the universe ends
Keter covers “impossible to contain”. Apollyon is an esoteric class
@@battlesheep2552 doenst really work when a lot of keter scp are ideed contained tho
@@cyrillaville2367 No, a scp that ends the world when put in a box would be archon. You outright can't put an apollyon scp in a box.
The whole time I wanted him to completely tear apart my understanding on Apollyon and he never did
That part at the end freaked me the hell out
Safe: The Boss when they become playable
Euclid: The Boss at the beginning of the game
Keter: The Boss mid game
Thaumiel: The Boss when you gotta help him fight an evil he unleashed
Apollyon: The Boss when you fight them
Aaaaaahh that end scared me so damn much!
You and specifically YOU should start a scp Vs series.
My name is Aidan and I just got so called out. Subbed for sure lmao. Spooked the hell out of me.
Dr. Cimmerian: Basically, you're wrong.
“You, Aidan? Hit the subscribe button”
Me an Aidan: WHAT?
I got scared for a bit there
Me too but I was already subscribed
Can you please explain how I'm wrong about esoteric classes? Just run through the guide I put together for the site and rip into each class - should be fun.
Am i wrong about thinking that i was wrong?
Cimmerian:”Keter is best”
Apollyon:”hold my containment cell”
my ranks
safe: cool and good
euclid: ur probably gonna die
keter: we're all fucking dead
Keter: you put in box, it gets out
Appolyon (not really......esoteric but....): u can’t put in box
One Explained SCP that was... well using the "History of the Foundation" aspect really well but kind of hurt to read was SCP-004-DE-EX
Don't worry It's on the translation hub so its available in English.
Thank you for your explanation. It was the most useful explanation I've received. Even the SCP wiki mods gave me pretty poor explanations compared to this.
I would love to see an SCP that is an easy-bake oven that bakes anything you place inside it instantly.
Cimmerian: There Is No Super Keter
XK Class: Am I A Joke To You
Apollyon: Me To
My favorite Keter SCP is "Someone To Watch Over Us". It's a very wholesome, non-dangerous SCP. It's a good example of how the classification is entirely about the difficulty of containment of an anomaly.
Safe: Just don't fuck with it
Euclid: Maybe fuck with it a little, just water it every now and then
Keter: It will fuck with you
Thaumiel: It fucks with other things
Dr. Cimmerman: "You're Wrong About Everything"
"You are wrong about object classes"
ACS format: "helo"
8:37 "your either perfect or you're not me."
Safe : not exactly safe but can be contained by just putting it in a metal box
Euclid : not safe and requires maintenance to contain
Keter : haha you got to catch me or I will go on a killing spree or something
Apollyon : *fak u ya can't catch me lmao*
When it comes to object classes I actually much prefer what the video game Labotomy Corporation does with the object classes of Abnormalities, its version of SCPs. In that game Abnormalities are ranked based on their aggression and how dangerous they instead of difficulty of containment, going from Zayin, Tepth, He, Waw, and the most aggressive of Aleph. This is much easier to understand while still giving some wiggle room.
2 examples of this is Alurane, a He from what I recall that's a pain cause they're constantly escaping, and Black swan, A Waw that is really weird in that it won't escape unless you really want it to.
I prefer how the Volgun pronounces keter. Good video by the way.
The wand sounds like 668.
At the Paranormal Objects Observation Facility, the rating system goes harmless, mostly harmless, viewable, untouchable, dangerous, lockup, forbidden, KWF (Kill With Fire). A Hero Is Born would be harmless. The unkillable reptile would be KWF.
The classic box analogy:
Safe: can be contained in a box and nothing should/will happen
Euclid: if contained in a box it might escape, there is no telling what will happen so better watch it (basically most living beings)
Keter: if contained in a box it will escape, more security and vigilance is needed
Appolyon: there is no box that can contain it and it hold a immediate threat to the world as a whole
I used to keter like you said how its normally pronounced but after watching mutiple keter SCPs I thought it was said how most others say it
for king thatcher kill lasers sights I like hearing Volgun’s pronunciation of Keter (ket ter) but I see why people would use (key-ter).
IMO Keter spelled like kettle sounds more threathening
Key-ther sounds more casual
"non euclidian" i now realize more lovecraft influences on the scp wiki
it's so funny to me that a keter could just be an immortal rat that likes to teleport.
Like it's not dangerous it just likes to travel, and can't be killed, so it is impossible to be contained
Nobody:
Dr. Cimmerian: You’re wrong about…
Thanks this video helped out with an SCP I am writing
keter is for objects that are hard to contain still makes sense to have something for objects impossible to contrain over that doesn't have to be a threat or even hostile for example if you have something that's infinite in its area you can't put it in a box
That's really what the threat level is for. Safe probably means you can, phase through the ceiling and say hello without being immedialty pulverized. Although it's probably not recommended
*You can't be wrong if you only know 3 classifications*
Safe: Low escape
Euclid: When he go spook
Keter: Nothing better than Keter
Thaumiel: Shut Up
Appollyon: Frick u I'm OP
Neutralized: IM DEAD
Dude, am I going insane, or do you know my name? Is there another Aidan you were looking for? Whatever that was, it was awesome! Giving that a like!
When you mentioned shooting a reality-warper in the head my first thought was what happened to Site 13
personally i one tier higher then keter could potentially be used, because if keter is hard to keep in a "box" then one step higher, say apollyon would be: you can't put it in a box in the first place.
"I'm not here to tell you how you're *not* wrong."
The object class page on the SCP wiki explains the 4 main object classes (Safe, Euclid, Keter, and Thaumiel) very simply with the locked box test if you lock it in a box and nothing happens, it's probably Safe, if you lock it in a box and you're not sure what will happen, it's probably Euclid, if you lock it in a box and it does escape it's probably Keter, if it is the box it's probably Thaumiel