I agree with everything besides the first point. Life points never mattered. That is why people used cards like Brain Control or Imperial Order. And all the hand destruction cards like Delinquent Duo. Solemn Judgement has also been a staple since 2008
I think Konami really needs to be more careful with card design. I understand that they need to make better cards, but powercreeping *WHOLE FEATURES* of the game isn't cool.
To be fair, there's some monsters that have weird statlines that interact with their effects. Meklord Emperors hate Synchro monsters, so they're Level 1 to sidestep the anti-Synchro tech cards. Photon monsters all have ATK that's pretty high, but that's entirely to facilitate Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon's unique Summoning condition. A lot of Hieratic monsters have relatively low stats for their Levels, but that's mostly because it's likely to be reduced to 0 anyway. Cosmic Fortress Gol'gar has absurd ATK for a Level 5 Synchro, but that's because it's so hard to Summon. Number 35: Ravenous Tarantula has 0/0 stats on a Rank 10, an Xyz Rank that's difficult to access . . . but, if you're playing a Deck that boosts your LP by a lot, or a burn Deck, it can make your entire field enormous.
@@elijahpadilla5083 Tbf, that *is* what the game does well, because it's a creative use of the card's stats and effects. I think what most people dislike is "Oh it's another omni-negate on a 3K body." If anything, the more omni-negate you become, the lower your Atk/Def should be to allow for the opponent to beat over the negate. Appollousa does this in an interesting way, although I still believe she's too beefy with 3 counters.
The battle phase is beyond saving at this point. You would need to ban entire years worth of meta cards and effects to justify using battle centric cards and effects over ones that just solve the problem before the battle phase even begins. Even then, the battle phase cards would need to be SO PUSHED in power level that they would need to somehow justify seeing play instead of cards that do all the same work for less effort. What effect could you possibly give a battle phase monster that was more useful than Lightning Storm just clearing all your opponents monsters in advance? or Dark Hole? I just don't see it happening.
Yes, BP doesn't matter as much in TCG/OCG as much as it does in other formats. Konami is showing signs of branching away from Advanced formats specifically because of these issues. This is why Rush and Speed Duels were made. The simplicity of the older formats is simply gone and cannot be replicated unless we change the whole game (just as you said).
I feel like if they made a deck or archetype that just negated all other card effects if the monster summoned had the most attack on the field would be a solution but would also be just a unbalanced and cheesy as everything else
YGO Link Evolution player here. (So, only informed on cards up to ~2019(?)) I literally just got Magical Mid-Breaker Field while opening virtual packs today. Haven't tested it yet (and not sure how it fares in today's meta), but I feel like it's a good option for players who prefer to use Battle Phase focused decks. It's limited (at least in the game's ban list), but I think making it semi-limited or adding more cards that incorporate this type of effect might be cool. Also, the effect of "Leo, the Keeper of the Sacred Tree" comes to mind. If more cards started coming out with a similar effect, but changed to "This card is unaffected by other cards, except during either player's Battle Phase", we'd see Battle Phase effects come back.
@@mrfajardo7 they really need to make more cards like that then! Or we’re gonna to stay in state where a whole chunk of the game stays irrelevant unless it’s pushed down our throats. Once that happens then people will start to build beat down and it’ll be a complete cycle of counter decks and a meta refinement but until then it’s full board OTK city
Adding more, if you want to open up the path for older cards to return-rather than only relying on the addition of new monsters-I could even see an equip spell with the following effect being helpful for buffing the Battle Phase: "The activation of this card cannot be negated. This card cannot be destroyed, except by its own effect, until the next turn after it is activated. Equip this card to 1 monster on the field. If you control the monster, that monster must have no more than [a balanced amount] ATK. Otherwise, destroy this card. During either player's Main Phase 1 or 2: Negate the equipped monster's effects. Also, that target is unaffected by other cards, except [This card's name]. If this card leaves the field because of an opponent's card effect, or because the equipped monster was destroyed during the Battle Phase, you can pay [balanced amount] LP: Return this card to your hand. You can only activate 1 [This card's name] per turn. You can only control 1 [This card's name] at a time." I erred on the side of making the card strong (imo), but something along those lines would be cool.
I would love for there to be a "theme" format. It goes something like this: If you summon an Extra Deck monster without using its theme--such as Ice Barrier monster(s) for Brionac--then the Extra Deck monster's effects are negated. If a monster doesn't have a theme, such as Number 71: Malevolent Sin, then its effects are negated unless its material(s) include a monster that includes an attribute or type in common with the Extra Deck monster. That would cut down on a lot of the generic Extra Deck spam.
I like the battle phase too because it fits well with yugiohs theme. You summin monsters from another dimension, The monsters battle, you sacrifice the monsters as tribute, you perform ritual summons, etc. Fits with the Egyptian card game theme and helps YGO be unique. Summoning definitely has more emphasis than actually battling what you summoned. So much special summoning
I use to play back in the original and GX era, and coming back last year, I'm still very much in the mindset of "The Battle Phase is the most important thing" But since I like to play causally, maybe that's a good thing.
Brother I feel you I have beat stick deck with some basic magic and trap card denial. I still use it down at the game shop even if I lose 90%, when I can get the right hand going it burns pretty good
I don't have any problem with the battle phase right now. We're several formats past "beat my 6 negate turn 1 board" Yu-Gi-Oh already. Swinging over monsters is something I still do in almost every duel. Beating apollousa in battle phase is still my favorite way to remove her, and I in general utilize the battle phase or make sure I can't get taken advantage of in the battle phase as often as possible. Kind of comes with being a Generaider player leaving 1,500 attack tokens up for my opponent to kill me for free. I think it's less that the battle phase doesn't matter and more that people don't think about using their battle phase as a point of interaction. Everyone thinks about their decks - even control decks - as combo decks nowadays and "how do I set up the most powerful turn 1 board" which isn't how Yu-Gi-Oh even works right now. The fact that combat tricks like rush recklessly, honest, and kalut are no longer around makes the battle phase even more reliable - what you see on the field is exactly as big as it's going to be and you know that your attacks will go through 100% of the time. Not the game's fault that people aren't utilizing the battle phase as much as they could be. Also Crimson Blader says hello over from the OCG with Swordsouls as a Tier 1 deck.
"Not the game's fault that people aren't utilizing the battle phase as much as they could be." It kind of is when the top decks prevent you from gathering enough resources to make use of the battle phase. If you're winning with Generaiders enough to use it as a point, you aren't playing against meta.
@@Harmonic14 Oh, so non-meta decks are outliers that are not allowed to be part of the discussion of general game mechanics? That's a cute way to look at things. For the record I have about a 50% win rate against Drytron, Tri-Brigade (where I got the Apollousa example from btw), Prank Kids, and above 50% win rate vs Invoked/Dogmatika/Shadoll and Salad, not that you care or have any obligation to believe me. No one knows that Generaider can easily access a 6 material Zeus, which by the way, I don't know how anyone thinks the battle phase is irrelevant right now when Zeus exists and banning Drident was almost entirely to deny 6 material Zeus from a top meta deck.
I think Yugioh should have stricter rulings about WHEN effects can happen. Make it so, no effects (no matter the spell speed) can happen during the battle phase (and it's internal steps), or the MP2, unless the card specifically says that it can. With the exception of set spell/traps and flip effects. And DO NOT print cards that have effects that can happen during both. This would being back relevancy to the battle phase and MP2, as well as traps and flip monsters. Obviously this comes with its own sets of balancing issues, but it would be worth it in the long run. It would divide decks up into categories, like "better at setting up in MP1" or "better at dominating the BP" or "better at setting up in MP2 and ensnaring the opponent." Etc.
They could make monsters effects non activatable during the battle phase unless its effect implies "DURING" the battle phase. The game needs some back n forth. 1turn kills shouldn't be prevalent if your opponent has to rely on the luck of draw to have forbidden drops or dark ruler no more for interaction.
negation effects are the worst thing that ever happened to yugioh. instead of strategy you win by making sure your opponent doesn’t get to play. so lame.
Solitaire is horrid for this game. Interaction requires way more skill! Which is why I play casually and competitively using that kind of strategy. I force my opponent to interact. I refuse to lose due to my opponent having more negates than I have cards.. if I can help it
This is why I like boss monsters like Zeus, Accesscode, Shuraig, Construct, and Dracossack (from back in the day). They're strong, impactful, can be played around, but aren't generic negates that wait for your opponent to do something like a trap card would. More often than not, they're making the plays at need to be negated! Not saying Borreload Savage and Dragoon are bad cards, but I'm glad that Konami has strayed away from big boss monsters with quick effect negates since the 7s era started.
Yep, negation effects kill the game wholesale. There is nothing fun, thoughtful or interactive about these effects, especially not on power monsters that can use their effect turn, after turn meaning you either win or you don't and close matches don't exist. They hsould just ban all the generic negate boss monsters (Dragoon, Appo, Savage Dragon, Dragite ETC) just ban them and let us play real yugioh again.
@@gigimei6097 That's just it though, isn't it. It's such an extremely all or nothing, mindless argument you just made. I think the current design is disastrous for the game and the only reason it's in as good a spot as it is now is because of covid basically forcing people to find something else to do. The game is, LITERALLY, who can -stop-, not hinder or slow down but STOP the other person from playing the game first. It is bad design no matter how you try to rationalize it. And the worst part is that it only benefits which deck can best spam and take advantage of the generic, over powered boss monsters the most to build these unfun boards. I'm not saying I absolutely hate negates, they CAN be healthy but current design is too heavy with them and far too generic. What I want to see is decks be a little more unique and to do that we need less generic godly cards like Dragoon and Appo. All I'm suggesting is that we lower the ceiling just a little bit, dump most of the truly oppressive boss monsters. This will allow more unique boss monsters to shine. But you people don't want that, cause you already overpaid for this cardboard and any idea that your wallet can't win you the game is terrifying. You don't want a fair game of yugioh, because you paid enough so that you don't have too. And to a degree, fair enough, but in an equally fair degree I don't care about you, or what you spent, or what you want. I care about me, and I care about what I believe is healthiest for the game. Interruption is fine, negates can be fine. But if we can just lower the generic cards, provide more specific cards then we can move in a healthier direction. Right now it's which specific deck can make the most generic boss monsters. And so the only strength a deck has is "who can spam more cards" This means that no idea will ever mean anything if it's not spam cards Traps? Too slow. Battle phase? Too slow. Any amount of set up that can't stop the enemy from playing immediately? Too slow. If you truly think solitaire is fun, then play that. But I want to play yugioh. I don't want to have a free win cause I rolled first, or an auto-loss because I didn't. And if you think that's ok then you're coping far harder than I though. Now I will say, right now, the game definitely feels a lot healthier than it was. The decks feel a little more diverse with a little more of their own strategies and I do deeply appreciate the steps, however slow, taken to reach where we are. But just because it's better than it was, doesn't mean it's good. It our money, we -can- ask for better, it's our right as consumers to want better from a product we've invested in. Optimally, every deck has a 50% winrate against every rate (or at least, say, 20) but that will never happen. I've accepted that, but just a little less oppressive, is that too much to ask for? TL;DR Games gotten better. Game could get better. Negates not bad, current amount is bad. Less generic cards please. Thank you for coming to my TedTalk
the battel phase is still much much much more important then you all think! ever faced a apollousa with low ATK? now suddenly you realize, that you have to attack (aka waste your battle phase) to kill apollousa, while your opponent has his next turn already set up. thats such a big problem, it can almost instantly lose you the game, especially, if you cannot kill all your oppoents monsters because of that. and now add a linkuriboh into the mix. yeah, the fact, that he sets 1 monsters ATK to 0 until the end of the turn, is now suddenly a game winning effect, and not only that, likuriboh did probebly set up your oppoents GY in the process of summoning it, maybe even startet his combo while doing so.
Paul obviously not touched the competitive scene in at least over a year because ever since the ban of linkross this game gets slower and slower ever ban list. Also probably not good enough to realize the that battle phase is an important resource that high skill players use for different things all the time
Paul must have had a bad string of losses against Dragon Link or something, because Borreload Savage Dragon and Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon always seem to live rent-free in his head. It's honestly quite sad to see. Furthermore, for the past several formats or so, the game has favored more control-oriented strategies, and there are no 5-monster negate boards to be found there.
But is he really wrong? Yeah apollousa had balance like that but he touched on cards like that when talking about herald of the arclight. He said monster negates should have more counterclaim like that. The problem is when you have to find a way around big bosses wiyh high attack. that also have negate or some crazy effect on top of it. I see the point you are all making that the battle phase has gained some relevance, but its a shell of what it was compared to when battle traps were meta. You still can't just battle a dragoon or other boss monsters with similar self protection. I also will say cards like droplets are an amazing start nit there still needs to be more. Maybe if we get enough cards that can shut down boss monsters then battling will have more impact again
I was really sad going back to modern yugioh and realizing that the Battle phase lost it's importance. Now and days battle phase is there if you're able to break your opponents' board or if they couldn't do anything because they couldn't make one. I also strongly agree with what they were trying to do with War Rocks. I thought War Rocks was going to go super heavy in utilizing the battle phase that no other archetype is able to do, and honestly they still play with them if they want to.
One better battle phase archetype is Dragonmaids. A lot of the battle phase stuff got lost when it just got splashed as an engine in dragon link, but the pure deck is quite heavy on battle phase interaction.
I feel like people miss the point of strategy games these days. Its pvp not 1 player playing solitaire untill they win. Just seems boring, interaction is the whole point.
@@justinbarney9895 My mindset was irreversible with stuff like Duelist Alliance on how it set the standard of future card design and how archetypes should be made in the modern era. Back to Rush Duels, at least players have a fair chance on "rebuilding the castle after it's destroyed" with drawing up to 5. Compared to Master Duels where you need crazy luck if your next card would pull a reversal on your opponent or just pass and accept fate.
@@thatman666 I also do not want to go back to older times but their used to be boss monsters with powerful battle effects that even had to be banned. Like Shaddoll Construct. I would like to go back to those times
Honestly I think what you're talking about can be summarized to me as saying the game is just unbalanced. Like power creep has just led to imbalance. But players just adjust their deck and playstyle to the imbalance so they don't get steamrolled by whatever the current power creep hotness is. But my opinion is a bit skewed as an old player who only recently (like as of last year) started dabbling with the game again
@@nmr7203 you have to break boards because cards have been designed to stop anything from happening. The problem is that there are too many easy to access omni negates now. If it was that each omni negate had specific requirements that made it so playing more than one or 2 in the same deck would be impossible that would be better
@@TraaaaaasshBooooaaaatttt I agree Omni negates should be much harder to summon. (Sort of like Venominaga, she’s my favorite). But if we didn’t have power creep, the game would get stale fast. It’s a thin line to stay on.
Dude. I literally just got back into yugioh this week after not touching the game since around 2012. The game has changed so much. I noticed that the battle phase does seem pretty useless and cards required for the battle phase made the game so interesting, more risky and fun. I always feel like my cards just get wiped before I get attacked with me having less options for counterplay. Again, I am new at the game again, so all this is still new.
The game is based on power creep, so it's just been getting faster and faster, and worse and worse. I'm not sure that Konami wants to slow it down, otherwise we would have seen limits to special summoning, or adding to your hand, or something.
I really like apollousa's design because of the attack decrease. I find myself outing it via battle many times and that's just neat. The same happens with Herald, as you said. I would like future generic omninegates to cause similar lines of play.
She mostly comes out with 2400 attack not something you can just beat over, maybe after one negate at 1600 which still is a lot for any normal effect monster these days... After 2 negates at 800 it's easily beatable but at that time she has already used 2 negates... Most importantly she is a link monster which means on top on 3+ monster negates she is never alone on the field (which is true for all boards in general but still) so I don't see just summon and swing over appaloosa very often unless your opponent bricked hard and she is alone there on the field
There's definitely some good that has come from a reduced focus on the battle phase. I found it incredibly demoralizing to have my big boss monster that I just sunk a lot of resources into get destroyed immediately by some battle trap because it didn't have any protection. I like your idea though of printing omni negates and other strong effects with much less ATK though. I'm not sure how much it would mess things up, but it would also be interesting if they made it so quick effects (but spells and traps could still work) normally couldn't be activated during the battle phase unless specified.
I'm a competitive player. Going into the battle phase can mean the difference between breaking a board and scooping. If there's a bunch of negates on the board and you've managed to get some high ATK monsters out, going into battle and threatening to get over problem monsters will MAKE your opponent respond. Once your opponent uses his defense, or if you managed to get over his threats, you can then use the resources in your hand to prepare for next turn. The BP saved me plenty of games. Don't take it for granted.
@@fawfulmark2 You're right about equip spells (apart from isolde decks), not really when it comes to trap cards or defense mode. Defense mode monsters right now are really common to play around Lightning Storm; trap cards (while they had a period of reduced play under some of MR4) are also pretty commonly used. . I think if equip spells are going to come back they'll have to print better equip spells, and if they're doing that they'll need to ban Isolde so they don't get abused. . Although honestly, equip spells were kind of powercrept out of yugioh quite early. They'd ceased being the best competitive choice by goat format apart from in niche decks, and Isolde decks fit the same niche nowadays. Premature Burial is an exception, but Premature Burial would be widely played today if it was legal; it's basically a generic Lunalight Tiger.
They tried to do it with War Rocks by giving them advantage if destroyed by opponent's card effects. But that's still kind of a weak float: it doesn't proc if they get banished or bounced or spun and they have to be sent to the grave after being destroyed. If they had made the float more like Samurai Skull (who gets to use his float if he's banished too) it might've been better.
How to make the Battle Phase relevant again: monster effects that negate activations or effects can no longer be used during the damage step. This makes it so that flip effects and cards that modify stats like [Shrink] can out problematic boss monsters and promote back and forth.
That quite literally solves nothing. Battle phase is irrelevant (with a few notable exceptions) for most decks because you get rid of all problems during the main phase amd only use battle phase to otk the opponent AFTER getting rid of all their problem cards. Monster effects are just too strong and have been that way for a while. If you want to make the battle phase super relevant now, they have to something really drastic like having cards that only allow card effects only in battle phase or cards that prevent all card effects unless destroyed by battle and even that would most likely be either too weak, or if its actually strong then it would be abused as just another floodgate or something
@@sammydray5919 I'm talking about unbreakable boards. My suggestion makes it so that people would have a way to fight back against boss monsters that don't let you play the game and encourages the use of the damage step within the Battle Phase to make it happen. If you can't defend yourself from an OTK, then it's your fault for not playing cards like Battle Fader, but the game isn't healthy when you're staring down a negation board that doesn't let you play.
@@darkglass3011 most cards cant be used in the damage step anyway so your suggestion wouldn't change all that much as far as boss monsters go (only cards like apollusa that manipulate atk along with their negate effects can be used in damage step). The issue would still primarily be that people use monster/card effects to clear the board before entering battle phase so waiting for the battle phase to out monsters via effects would still be mostly pointless. Thats why I recommended having cards or effects that essentially force it so that card effects can only be used in battle phase to force that kind of interaction
The Battle Phase should have meaning. I agree Paul. Also we need support for older archetypes. Dark Scorpions for example. Sometimes creating new archetypes are cool but as you can see with legacy support, Konami still makes a mint.
We honestly went pass the point of no return; we have so many negates that the only real way I can see this being “fixed” would be to make a new format all together where “too powerful” negates are ban.
I believe if they took free or easy to use omni negates off monsters and exclusively kept them on traps or occasionally spells, monsters would be used for battle or answering specific board states instead of end all be all answer to everything cards. Monsters do everything now a days. Need to stop a spell that will ruin your board? Bring an omni negate out. Need to stop a really strong monster out? Bring a knightmare out. Need to stop your opponent from playing? Bring a floodgate monster out. Monsters do everything that spells and traps used to but you get a monster on top of whatever effective you Need at the time,basically making any card that isn't a monster a card that should get you to a monster you Need instead of answering you opponents board.. Unpopular opinion, mystic mine forces more players to play main deck outs to cards besides monsters.
Pretty soon you’ll just show each other your hand and just decide to scoop or not and there won’t be any phases that don’t matter anymore and the game will just die because any new released cards won’t even be used and the competitive scene will die but the casual scene where I play would probably be the normal way to play since all the phases still matter for the most part
Because what konami should have done is to balance the effect, battle stats.. example: 1. Vanilla Monsters should always have higher battle stats vs effect monsters with respect to their levels 2. Decks should be themed. They revolve around one effect and their battle stats is respecrive of their level. 3. If an effect is too strong, getting them out should be more difficult: like can only be special summoned by... or can only control only one at a time..
Yu-gi-oh can be fixed by allowing no more than one summon outside of your normal summon. That includes link, synchro, etc. In addition, get rid of all monster hand traps. The game will then become playable.
The oldschool battle phase wont come back. There are just too much OP mons that adding battle phase effects arent really relevant anymore unless it has something to do with negation
Imagine a new master rule in which the Battle Phase becomes relevant again. Something like Champion monsters that can get stat buffs from your regular monsters.
The battle Phase has lost all meaning in modern Yugioh, since the game is already won during the Main Phase. That's the reason why some decks like Gladiator Beasts will never be as good as during the Gyzarus era, because the opponent will simply not let you get to the BP anymore. War Rocks are also a great example on why everyone knew the deck IS BAD way before we even got the full support........... Day 899 of waiting for Good Pyro/Volcanic Support to arrive in the OCG/TCG..........
@@ryujokatagiri7019 isnt it there already? what decks still play that card? it feels so outclassed by lightning storm, duster and red rebbot. evemn cosmic and twin twister see much more play...
Nowadays it’s “create a board with a bunch of monsters that negate” or “negate your opponent from creating said board by using a bunch of negates” Negates, consistent summon engine, and 3000 attack all in one package is hard to beat. I think if Konami can make the Battle Phase more impactful, that’d be awesome. Maybe monsters that negate the effects of all monsters during the Battle Phase, or puts monsters in Face Down Def? Idk. Still love the game but it’s power creeped to board spam and/or negation
"Omni negate monsters hould have lower stats" I mean, anyone with more than two brain cells would balance cards like this, but Konami unfortunately has half a brain cell only.
3000 attack... Sure Twice per turn destroy a monster and inflict burn... Sure Can't be destroyed by card effects... Sure? Can't be targeted by card effects... Sure?? Quick effect negate anything... Sure??? Gain 1000 attack too... Sure????
a monster can't have 3000 attack points and negate everything and how do you take the battle phase out of Yu-Gi-Oh that just goes to show you how much worse Yu-Gi-Oh has gotten as time goes on
Making a 3000+ ATK monster with protection should be difficult to get out or at least be archetype locked, meaning you need to spend a lot of resources to get it onto the field; making so many boss monsters generic just means you can throw them into anything and being able to spam them out in only one turn.
But that would stop players from playing Solitaire with themselves and one turning their opponent or just about. I agree with you 1 special summon per turn, 1 hand activation a turn would make this game slow the hell down.
Hey Paul. Idk if you already do this but perhaps make a pod cast type of video with your teammates I’d love to listen in detail and I think we all would enjoy it!
I think what would help is, similar to what you mentioned with War Rocks, is making one or more archetypes that gain REALLY broken effects in the Battle Phase. Fundamentally speaking, Fusions and Rituals, at their cores, have been terrible mechanics. There's a reason no one played either mechanics for so long. What helped were both those mechanics getting cards that were busted. Nowadays, Fusion archetypes net you a ton of advantage that help replace the costs needed to create their Fusion monsters, and the Fusion monsters themselves tend to have very busted effects that would be absurd on Synchros or Links for example. Rituals too, namely Drytron and Nekroz back then, do the same thing. For the Battle Phase to peak back into relevance, the same would have to apply. Maybe gaining protection during the Main Phase (Perhaps being unable to be destroyed or banished during the Main Phase to prevent decks like Despia from popping them), then getting their actual, crazy effects during the Battle Phase.
One problem that I think can be solved for the game is if Konami does go after the extra deck monsters, it's one thing to have a shiny new deck to come out, but if it can still play old boss monsters then there's no point in playing that decks game plan. If a decent change is to be brought to the game, then limiting or banning cards that make's your opponent being unable to play is one of the possible changes needed to this game. A ten year old trying Yugioh for the first time and literally get's told he can't even play is not a good sign for new young players, especially with how expensive most needed cards are now a day's.
It's a shame because I love my Dinowrestlers. They are meant for Battlefield control in a slightly similar vein to Gladiator Beasts but rely on one-on-one battles (through World Dino Wrestling) and getting the Chimera King fusion out quickly. There's lots of battlefield protection in their cards like Ankylo and Ampelo and whatnot, but unfortunately it can get run over...which I don't like.
As someone who also plays Dinowrestlers, you realize you don’t even play it the way it was intended and play it alongside UCT, Lost World, Oviraptor and Misc. And your Dinowrestlers like Coelasilat, Systegosaur and the Martials, all end up as tribute fodder for Pankratops’ pop effect.
@@pamoon_ True. Though I DID actually do pretty well playing it straight for a bit. Mostly using stuff like Waboku to ensure survivability. I did recently add in a small dino engine but nothing too heavy. Majority of it being Dinowrestlers. I also added in the 1 Lithosagym because who doesn't love banishing 3 extra deck cards lol.
One idea: introduce cards or effects that can only activate during the Battle Phase and can't be negated by monster effects. That way you can still have back-and-forth, but giant negate monsters lose their potency and have to rely on battle strength. (Also negating hand traps would be made irrelevant during Battle Phase.)
Some pretty cool ideas! I do love the battle phase and want it to be very relevant again. Probably an unpopular opinion, but one thing that kind of bugs me about deck profiles for archetypes, they end up having the same staples of monsters, including link and synchro special summons that have nothing to do with archetype. I make my decks as pure as possible for the archetype I'm playing. I just have more fun that way. For example I don't like saying I'm running a red eyes black dragon deck, but then the hand traps staple, link summons and other monsters have nothing to do with red eyes black dragon whatsoever lol. They are basically using the synergy of the deck to get the same boss monsters out that are good to win. Even though they are nothing to do with archetype.
I remember realizing how far gone the battle phase was when I made a custom battle centric archetype and sfter thinking "How do I make the deck not suck" and my first idea was to give them archetype exclusive ways to sttsck outside of the battle phase
Any monster effects that only focus to battle phase should be: 1. Immune to negation 2. Cannot respond 3. Kill multiple monsters or deal so much damage on single target 4. Force other monsters to battle it 5. Float effects if you kill it by effect so you need to battle it properly. If they dont have that kind of quality, dont bother. I dont need War Rock. Spell and Trap that focus on battle phase are a bit tricky. If they can be negated then dont bother to make them. Make them cannot be responded will make opponent waste their resources to take them out. Destroy them will trigger their dangerous floating effects so the opponents will have to find the unconventional way to remove it. Even with over the top effects, i doubt they will have some massive successes. And final option, make all the future negation monsters have terrible atk so the battle monster can just kill them by their raw stats alone. If not, dont bother, my Dragun has 3000 atk with negation, target protection and can deal a big chunk of damage by his second effect.
I still think that 3,000 should be incredibly rare. Blue-Eyes lore-wise was supposed to be incredibly powerful compared to everything else. Now the only thing that makes it special is all the support that makes it easy to spam. Now we have a ton of 3,000 ATK monsters that can negate anything, after pop out of the graveyard from their own effect or are completely indestructible. In general, I like mega-beatsticks that can go over 5,000 you could say they're all I play Yugioh for and now don't play Yugioh since I can't use. I was excited when I saw all the Evil Hero support and thought about coming back for a bit to play Dark Gaia, but the short printing made it not worth cost or time for trying and likely still losing.
Yugioh then - Two green players throwing out their monsters and slamming into each other until someone dies. Yugioh now - Two blue players staring each other in the eyes saying no over and over until someone scoops.
Meta players never brainlessly slammed monsters into each other. Old School Yugioh was about recourse Management. Most of the time you stalled until you could go for game. Battling did not matter much before 2008 when stuff like Honest, Gorz, Kalut and Synchros were released
@@1Tenno in the ocg the original set had 1 trap and mostly weak monsters with mostly equip spells. It was indeed throw down monster and hit other monster. If you look at set 1 the best monster in the set was silver famg since it was tied for highest attacking normal summon monster without tributes that had an equip spell.
@@amodsr I see, you were refering to yugi kaiba vanilla beatdown. Sure, if you do not mind constantly playing the same deck while also constantly playing against the same deck then it should be fun for you
@@1Tenno Seems you are being slightly aggressive with your comment when I was making a joke about the difference in the game from what it is now to what it used to be. I don't see why you're commenting as if I don't like complex yugioh game states or the idea of synchros or xyz or link or something along those lines. In no way shape or form was I disparaging the game in any way. Your comment also seems as if we haven't had metas where we see the same decks over and over and over and over again. Might I remind you of the time we saw Dad Format during a time when the game saw its newest mechanics, or the fact that the game changes to a point that it just keeps pumping out new ways to summon altering the state of the game to a point that we even have a new game because of it with rush duels which is a completely new game even though it is the exact same game but more or less back to a basic style of play just equally as fast paced as links are. If you are not being aggressive and I just misread your comment, it just looked like it since you made it about me and not the game itself. I like yugioh and watch this channel and Cimoooooooo and other channels because I like the content and the game as a whole. I believe that the game is currently in a state of now balancing out since the new show isn't about the original game and they are now making retrains of older stuff. Yes the game is different but it doesn't mean the old stuff isn't also a valid form of playing. Some people like complex game states and a defining meta based around flood gates and control aspects and some people like a simple game state where we can just sit back and casually chill over a game we all love. With that we don't need to get on each others cases over a game we are all supposed to love. Let's all work together instead of gate keeping each other from what we think is the right way to play the game and applaud different takes so that the community is diverse. I hope this message is taken as a form of me trying to explain where I come from and not an attack and a way for us both to understand each other and not have a quarrel over a childrens card game.
I completely agree, the battle phase seems to have been shoved to the side in lieu of 8 zillion boss monster negates. I was super excited about War Rocks when I heard about them, too bad they are only half the way there. I always loved the idea of my monsters locked in battle with my opponents and the stronger one or more clever tactically would win. I guess that’s why I always wanted a playable “pure” version of Kaijus, it just sounded cool to me. I’m rambling now, so I’ll end with this: great video and seriously thought provoking. What would the game be like with a shift to slightly more emphasis on a battle phase.
Changing the rules of the damage step so that only direct ATK and DEF modifiers and speed spell 3 cards could be used in it, might help. Dragoons and friends would still be powerful control options. But ones that could be overcome by being aggresive enough.
I have to agree here. Its always "this was important, but not anymore. The game is way different then in the past." Yada yada. I dont mean to be offensive here but thats how it goes. Games change over time, specially games that exist for as long as yugioh has. Plus it has plenty of positivies which are talked about way less then the "negatives".
Yeah no y’all are wrong. Just like someone above said ppl want it to stay this way cuz they spent way to much money to make sure they win by keeping the other player from playing. This isn’t fun and it will never be. And it’s fine that u get to get your kicks with how it is now cuz honestly us having these discussions isn’t going to change anything. Cuz y ppl spend that money to win. Just be honest about it though lol
Yep and the comments are mainly people who refuse to accept this and go like "oh this game would be better if Konami did X and Y" very boring. To those people I just say the same thing. Play goat format or just try and learn
The battle phase has lost its importance. Everything is determined in the Main Phase 1 by setting up monster negates to the point where the opponent can't summon monsters to into the battle phase and you look at them like: can I play?? This is still a break my board format that hand traps like ash, belle, gamma, droplets to monster effects that when the opponent summons and activates an effect, they're like: oh negate that and destroy it, special summon 3 monsters, wipe your board, and then you can continue.
If their was a summon limit each turn (5-6), the unbreakable board problem would go away immediately. Backrow/monster removal is plentiful, so people would really have to do better strategies than just snowball into everything or stall. The playing field would open up a lot. I'm surprised no one has created such a format yet.
The battle phase is your reward for winning in other areas of the game. Getting to swing in is a consequence of a superior board state, for all that might suggest about the state of the game.
In the newest Digimon tcg they have Security Cards where attacking the opponent reveals a card and get some effect or a battle if its a monster. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they made a rule like "after a player receives battle damage, they reveal the top card of their deck, special summon it if it is a monster and activate it if not."
Elder scrolls legends did this in some vein and aggro decks were so fucking swingy and downright not fun to play. Though I don't know if digimon has instant speed interactions
I don't keep up with the meta, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but maybe with every card that has a negate, that player has to pay a certain number of life points per turn or per standby phase...possibly depending on the type of negate and strength of the monster. Otherwise you'll be heading into some era where we'll be activating things when you negate my negate (or vice versa) and it'll will just get ridiculous. It would be funny!...but ridiculous. Thinking of witch's strike. eg: 2027: When you negate my negate that negates your negate, I activate this card from my deck that negates your negate.
Negates aren't inherently the problem, the problem is that you can combine negates with huge stat lines on the same end board. If a deck were *just* capable of spitting out multiple negates but didn't have access to lethal by combat the next turn it wouldn't be so problematic, but the game is designed such that big stats and/or negates are generic and ubiquitous.
I appreciate this post as a war rock user, older player from the original/GX eras and I love the battle phase focused decks.. have managed to beat my buddies witchcrafter deck quite a few times and have lost sometimes because I misplayed(forgot to use effects of certain monsters) war rocks would have more potential with the right support in the future if they are even going to support it anymore idk and kinda doubt, but maybe because it is the punching bag like you said they may "oh yeah how about now" can only hope so lol
I've been playing ygo for about 2 years now, but have been playing mtg for about 13 years. And although mtg has it's faults the main thing that they do right is give players something easily customizable. Power level is far more obvious then it is in ygo so creating a deck to fit in with the people you play witbh is easier. The people i play with all have certain types of decks that all fit in with eachother so no one is "stronger" then the other and as a result the matches take longer and the matches are far more based on strategy and aren't decided until the end with comebacks being very possible most of the time. On the other hand, ygo has such a established meta game that everyone plays nowadays that it's hard to play a game without having matches that are decided within the first or second turn without real interaction from the other player.
Maybe ygo needs to implement a Mana system. Least in MTG Blue players have to pay mana to negate things. Or on their turn choose between negating and not developing a board cause they're Mana isn't infinite (Unless specifically set up. CMDR player btw)
@@burpinator1 the best thing they can do, in my opinion, is to put a ban on alot of the old cards and just create a cut off from which era people can play and then start printing less generic boss monsters. They can make generic maindeck and generic extra deck support, but keep the actual end boss monsters more restricted. That way there's less powercreep pressure, and players are forced to think more about which archetype and playstyle they want, instead of just rofl down some generic good cards. As a commander player myself as well, i feel like that is the perfect format to get fun and interactive games, normal mtg still has the ability to 2 turn someone, but sadly i don't think commander format would really work with ygo.
@@richarddrost5737 that’s so sloppy IMO from an outsider point of view. They’re just releasing shit and banning it later on becuz they aren’t thinking things through. I just came back to ygo from 17 years ago and I’m already done. I won’t duel anyone I’m just going to collect
Between this and the previous video about new vs old Yu-Gi-Oh, I am convinced Yu-Gi-Oh needs at least 2 premier formats: a rotating format and a nonrotating format. The nonrotating format could just follow what has been played forever and everyone who loves Yu-Gi-Oh as it is now can just play that. The rotating format however could be used to lower the power level so games can grind out more and last longer, and not focus on high level of negation effects as described here, and give more meaning to combat. The format can be curated to create specific environments that Konami would want to promote and cater to different players or play styles. They could also release new cards that have a high level of support in the nonrotating format but not much in the rotating one that way it doesn't take over a format and overshadow weaker archetypes. This could also help the longevity of the nonrotating cards by not having to powercreep old favorite archetypes because the newer archetypes aren't always directly competing with the old ones for viability (for example: say Salamangreat has already rotated out and Konami wanted Drytron to be viable when it entered the format, they wouldn't have to push Drytron to be at least as strong as Salamangreat to see play, and risk being strong enough to push Salamangreat, or other just decent archetypes, out of a format (side note: do not nitpick the example, I merely chose 2 different archetypes that have put up good results during different time periods to make a general example)).
That could work, but they would have to change the game from archetypes to types and attributes... Also, the old nonrotating archetypes could receive support in their own exclusive sealed products (like what Mtg did with Modern Horizons 1 and 2)...
@@vitorlaet9983 I think they could still do archetypes similar to how they are now, just support would need to be clustered to a few sets in a row. Say if rotation is in Jan/Feb, all the support for any particular archetype would need to start at earliest in the Jan/Feb set and the Oct/Nov set would be the latest set that archetype would have support in so that half the support doesn't get rotated away. At least until they revisit it, then in those case, they could cherry pick key cards they want in rotation, say one piece of support was overpowered the first time around, they just exclude it the next time.
boss monsters with omni negates should lose certain part of their effects if they arent within a deck of their archetype, borrel savage- unless this card is synchro summoned using a rokket tuner and have Boot sector launch in field zone(i understand dragolink already does this tracer rokket to summon but other decks can make savage drago and thats a no no) this cards atk is halved and you only gain 1 counter off of the link monster chosen or the only link monster you can choose is a borrel in gy. dragoon- gain powerful effects based on where his materials are sent from and the deck should be the weakest but playable or seperate the effects he does have per where the materials come from sent from the hand- destroy the monsters on the field deck- deal damage per destroyed monster from this card hand- send 1 from hand to negate the cards and destroy - and if this card was summoned using the usual suspects he is immune to targets and card destruction effects easy to use omni negates now should have to jump thru hoops, pretty certain we're all sick of this but need a compromise a good middle ground. take this with a grain of salt, im not a competitive tourney player but seeing 1 card 6 negate boards is getting sickening
I think it's more about how predictable some meta decks are. If you see a predaplant link monster you better have both hands on your hand trap. If you see a wall of spell books... Get ready to lose. See a Hamon and Uria, time to bulk up or get a wall of cards to beat over it with link dragon or something. But if you do that with the synchro that summons tokens, they're going to nuke it. They see eye of tamaius too many times, red eyes fusion, neos fusion, predaplant whatever... They're gone as soon as they see it. The game has become more about screwing around doing plan B first, and for cards like red eyes fusion... It's going to kill you. They tried to balance it... But honestly once someone stops using normal archetypes and just goes for levels, types, effects the game changes completely. Ursarctics are great in a synchro token deck, level 7 cards are absolutely gobstompers with mekk knights and XYZs. Level 8s have great control XYZs and Busted Dragravion Numeron nonsense. Zodiacs were some of the messiest level 4 rank 4 cards I've ever seen. Then there's altergeist... Where if they know what you're about to do... They can ruin a lot with one effect. Yeah you spent 5 monsters on that? Boohoo. But with that being said... If you're playing with real cards... Man life sucks.
I think battle phase also suffers from a difference in board building on any turn. In the old game you had to gamble with a smaller investment in the hopes you could make a beatstick or an effect monster that made for a bad time. In the current game you can't afford little investments or else your opponent will make a board that ends on a multi negate or an otk pattern. So battle is a tough option unless you plan to finish the job in one go.
I haven't played at locals in years but since seeing how the game evolved with multiple board negates and handtraps have become heavily prominent. I like to go back to the DS/psp games and I also play Link Evolution on PS4. That's more my speed. I've even kinda stopped trying to see what's new because for the most part. I've recently made a raidraptor Deck and a rokket deck with the structure deck. I use actual traps and have a couple ways to lock the opponent but I don't have the ability to have more than 2 negates at most. I appreciate the video Paul. I like how you guys give awesome of examples of what's going on without a player being in the main scene but for all types of players
This is definitely a benefit for MTG, the battle phase is really interesting since you declare all attackers at once and they are are targeted directly to the opponent (or a planeswalker they control), then your opponent declares their creatures to block, then the damage step happens. There’s a lot of relevant effects like first strike (creature does damage before ones without first strike, meaning that if the opposing creature is killed during first strike, it doesn’t get a chance to deal damage), trample (which causes excess damage to be dealt to the player), and several more. With a big thing being, if you attack with a creature it becomes tapped, and tapped creature can’t be used to block, so unless the creature has Vigilance, if you attack with it, you won’t be able to block the opponent with it on the crack back. Definitely the battle phase makes up the coolest part of the game and allows for a lot of interesting decisions and complex bird states, especially in draft formats, where the board is more prone to being clogged with creatures (there is not a limited number of zones, you can have unlimited creatures)
I don't see the battle phase having any importance as long as Accesscode Talker is in the game. A generic 5300 attack monster that disassembles entire fields with premium removal makes any battle-phase tactics impossible.
Perhaps a crazy idea but could you see a benefit to merging the battle phase and main phase one? You could see actions such as summoning certain monsters to attack remove a problem monster that is floodgating you before you continue the turn and still have the ability to attack. Probably to crazy and to chaotic haha
I totally agree with everything you said. I like the War Rock idea and to bring back the battle phase. I would like all the major hand traps to be limited, all the big boss monsters to be limited, and any card with negations to be once per turn. This whole not being able to actually play is not fun.
*Chaos Ancient Gear Giant Has Entered The Chat* 4500 ATK Monster, being able to attack all opponent's monsters and disables monster effects during the damage step. Unaffected by Spell and Traps and does piercing damage.
I think an effect that Konomi could play with is effects that can trigger when they attack or are attacked. For example if this card attacks give everyone 1000 atk points until the end of the battle phase or something. As long as they word it so that it doesn't miss timing, I think this would be an interesting idea to play with.
Maybe balance Boss monsters by adding a tag. Monster Type/Effect/Boss. Then have a rule for only 1 boss monster on the field. Though this would then require errataing everything to add tags. Or implement Mana and give everything a Mana cost like in MTG so we can control tempo, negation, board state, etc.
@@4und4zich the problem is even more pronounced. In not having a mana system, that's always going to be the biggest part of the game. What helped mitigate that is that most really good cards couldn't be played right away (tribute summons, fusion, ritual, etc.). Now, the power creep is so massive that something like Chaos Max Dragon, which can literally one-shot your opponent and isn't particularly difficult to summon, is seen as casual fodder.
The biggest issue is that Pandora's Box has already been open. The cards in the game now will still win more over cards that can be removed my battle, so without more intervention the game will not evolve.
The only way I see Konami making the Battle Phase Essential again is one of two ways. The First is which I don’t think we’ll happen is for them to Slow the Game Back Down just enough. Or the Second more likely way Is for them to, Start making Monsters with Effects that make the Battle Phase Essential by having part of the Effects reading something like. “……If This Monster Didn’t Attack During The Battle Phase Send It To The GY…” all the while making the Stats of the Said Monster More Enticing than the Effects of the Said Monster.
A lot of people saying they miss battle traps. I do not miss fearing them at all outside of meme potential. I love trap cards, I like playing trap-focused decks. But I always hated having to keep my Bwing armourmaster in defense because of Dimensional Prison. I love boss monsters that don't have to worry about Battlephase Backrow. But I prefer traps to be good in any phase but have utility in the Battlephase as a side-effect of that.
Red Eyes Fusion Errata 1 Fusion Material must be on the field one in the Hand DM Decks easily get DM on the field and Summoner's art can search for Normal high Level monsters it would also ensure that it would only be used in Red Eyes and Dark Magician Decks and not just any deck and Anconda would not be banned or limited
There are decent battle Phase tricks that have become available recently, but people seem to use them less than they should. I'm thinking about Dark Honest, Dark Spirit of Banishment and Abominable Unchained Soul.
The best solution I can think off hand to get the battle phase to have more importance is if and only if Konami starts pushing more and more cards with effects that act around the battle phase.
I think what would be very cool is if they made cards that could attack on your opponents turn. No more "negate and destroy" just "attack the opponent's 1200ATK starter, with your Gemini Elf."
I think what would be cool is making brand new, powerful archetypes around normal monsters similar to DM, blue eyes, red eyes and the like. I’ve always loved those types of decks
My idea for a solution. Implement a duel links style ban list either in place of or along side the current ban lost and put all omni-negates at 3. So you don’t have to get rid of these cards entirely but make people choose if they want Omni-negates or other powerful cards and at most they can have is 3 Omni-negates in their entire deck at the cost of not being able to place other powerful cards in their place.
2016: Life points don’t matter anymore
2021: the battle phase doesn’t matter anymore
2026: Main Phase 1 doesn’t matter anymore
On future all people already know how to legally get 5 pieces of exodia right after the game started.
2031: dueling doesn’t matter anymore
2050: card games doesn't matter anymore
I agree with everything besides the first point. Life points never mattered. That is why people used cards like Brain Control or Imperial Order. And all the hand destruction cards like Delinquent Duo. Solemn Judgement has also been a staple since 2008
Yu GI oh is so garbage now
I think Konami really needs to be more careful with card design. I understand that they need to make better cards, but powercreeping *WHOLE FEATURES* of the game isn't cool.
I think that's what they're trying to do with Rush duels
Yu gi oh would definitely benefit from a concrete design philosophy around monster stats and giving the numbers more “regular” levels
To be fair, there's some monsters that have weird statlines that interact with their effects.
Meklord Emperors hate Synchro monsters, so they're Level 1 to sidestep the anti-Synchro tech cards.
Photon monsters all have ATK that's pretty high, but that's entirely to facilitate Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon's unique Summoning condition.
A lot of Hieratic monsters have relatively low stats for their Levels, but that's mostly because it's likely to be reduced to 0 anyway.
Cosmic Fortress Gol'gar has absurd ATK for a Level 5 Synchro, but that's because it's so hard to Summon.
Number 35: Ravenous Tarantula has 0/0 stats on a Rank 10, an Xyz Rank that's difficult to access . . . but, if you're playing a Deck that boosts your LP by a lot, or a burn Deck, it can make your entire field enormous.
This is why im excited for Rush duels, they did just that
@@elijahpadilla5083 you know what else is enormous? 😏
Not my little meat stick, it’s comparable to a tic tac 😣
@@elijahpadilla5083 Tbf, that *is* what the game does well, because it's a creative use of the card's stats and effects.
I think what most people dislike is "Oh it's another omni-negate on a 3K body." If anything, the more omni-negate you become, the lower your Atk/Def should be to allow for the opponent to beat over the negate. Appollousa does this in an interesting way, although I still believe she's too beefy with 3 counters.
The battle phase is beyond saving at this point. You would need to ban entire years worth of meta cards and effects to justify using battle centric cards and effects over ones that just solve the problem before the battle phase even begins. Even then, the battle phase cards would need to be SO PUSHED in power level that they would need to somehow justify seeing play instead of cards that do all the same work for less effort. What effect could you possibly give a battle phase monster that was more useful than Lightning Storm just clearing all your opponents monsters in advance? or Dark Hole? I just don't see it happening.
Yes, BP doesn't matter as much in TCG/OCG as much as it does in other formats.
Konami is showing signs of branching away from Advanced formats specifically because of these issues. This is why Rush and Speed Duels were made. The simplicity of the older formats is simply gone and cannot be replicated unless we change the whole game (just as you said).
I feel like if they made a deck or archetype that just negated all other card effects if the monster summoned had the most attack on the field would be a solution but would also be just a unbalanced and cheesy as everything else
YGO Link Evolution player here. (So, only informed on cards up to ~2019(?))
I literally just got Magical Mid-Breaker Field while opening virtual packs today. Haven't tested it yet (and not sure how it fares in today's meta), but I feel like it's a good option for players who prefer to use Battle Phase focused decks.
It's limited (at least in the game's ban list), but I think making it semi-limited or adding more cards that incorporate this type of effect might be cool.
Also, the effect of "Leo, the Keeper of the Sacred Tree" comes to mind. If more cards started coming out with a similar effect, but changed to "This card is unaffected by other cards, except during either player's Battle Phase", we'd see Battle Phase effects come back.
@@mrfajardo7 they really need to make more cards like that then! Or we’re gonna to stay in state where a whole chunk of the game stays irrelevant unless it’s pushed down our throats. Once that happens then people will start to build beat down and it’ll be a complete cycle of counter decks and a meta refinement but until then it’s full board OTK city
Adding more, if you want to open up the path for older cards to return-rather than only relying on the addition of new monsters-I could even see an equip spell with the following effect being helpful for buffing the Battle Phase:
"The activation of this card cannot be negated. This card cannot be destroyed, except by its own effect, until the next turn after it is activated.
Equip this card to 1 monster on the field. If you control the monster, that monster must have no more than [a balanced amount] ATK. Otherwise, destroy this card.
During either player's Main Phase 1 or 2: Negate the equipped monster's effects. Also, that target is unaffected by other cards, except [This card's name].
If this card leaves the field because of an opponent's card effect, or because the equipped monster was destroyed during the Battle Phase, you can pay [balanced amount] LP: Return this card to your hand.
You can only activate 1 [This card's name] per turn. You can only control 1 [This card's name] at a time."
I erred on the side of making the card strong (imo), but something along those lines would be cool.
I would love for there to be a "theme" format. It goes something like this: If you summon an Extra Deck monster without using its theme--such as Ice Barrier monster(s) for Brionac--then the Extra Deck monster's effects are negated. If a monster doesn't have a theme, such as Number 71: Malevolent Sin, then its effects are negated unless its material(s) include a monster that includes an attribute or type in common with the Extra Deck monster. That would cut down on a lot of the generic Extra Deck spam.
It's almost like balance is an important aspect to a game..
Fans: **reasonable complaints**
Konami: What? You want more Hand Traps? You got it.
Balance went out the window at the end of the GX era its way too late
I like the battle phase too because it fits well with yugiohs theme. You summin monsters from another dimension, The monsters battle, you sacrifice the monsters as tribute, you perform ritual summons, etc. Fits with the Egyptian card game theme and helps YGO be unique.
Summoning definitely has more emphasis than actually battling what you summoned. So much special summoning
I use to play back in the original and GX era, and coming back last year, I'm still very much in the mindset of "The Battle Phase is the most important thing" But since I like to play causally, maybe that's a good thing.
Try GOAT format. It’s there for people who like simplicity.
Brother I feel you I have beat stick deck with some basic magic and trap card denial. I still use it down at the game shop even if I lose 90%, when I can get the right hand going it burns pretty good
The Standby Phase: “Am I a joke to you?”
Turn 0 Exodia
I don't have any problem with the battle phase right now. We're several formats past "beat my 6 negate turn 1 board" Yu-Gi-Oh already. Swinging over monsters is something I still do in almost every duel. Beating apollousa in battle phase is still my favorite way to remove her, and I in general utilize the battle phase or make sure I can't get taken advantage of in the battle phase as often as possible. Kind of comes with being a Generaider player leaving 1,500 attack tokens up for my opponent to kill me for free.
I think it's less that the battle phase doesn't matter and more that people don't think about using their battle phase as a point of interaction. Everyone thinks about their decks - even control decks - as combo decks nowadays and "how do I set up the most powerful turn 1 board" which isn't how Yu-Gi-Oh even works right now. The fact that combat tricks like rush recklessly, honest, and kalut are no longer around makes the battle phase even more reliable - what you see on the field is exactly as big as it's going to be and you know that your attacks will go through 100% of the time. Not the game's fault that people aren't utilizing the battle phase as much as they could be.
Also Crimson Blader says hello over from the OCG with Swordsouls as a Tier 1 deck.
"Not the game's fault that people aren't utilizing the battle phase as much as they could be."
It kind of is when the top decks prevent you from gathering enough resources to make use of the battle phase. If you're winning with Generaiders enough to use it as a point, you aren't playing against meta.
@@Harmonic14 Could you provide a few examples about the metagame and how those Decks operate? You haven't exactly refuted Duo's point.
@@Harmonic14 Oh, so non-meta decks are outliers that are not allowed to be part of the discussion of general game mechanics? That's a cute way to look at things.
For the record I have about a 50% win rate against Drytron, Tri-Brigade (where I got the Apollousa example from btw), Prank Kids, and above 50% win rate vs Invoked/Dogmatika/Shadoll and Salad, not that you care or have any obligation to believe me.
No one knows that Generaider can easily access a 6 material Zeus, which by the way, I don't know how anyone thinks the battle phase is irrelevant right now when Zeus exists and banning Drident was almost entirely to deny 6 material Zeus from a top meta deck.
I think Yugioh should have stricter rulings about WHEN effects can happen.
Make it so, no effects (no matter the spell speed) can happen during the battle phase (and it's internal steps), or the MP2, unless the card specifically says that it can. With the exception of set spell/traps and flip effects.
And DO NOT print cards that have effects that can happen during both.
This would being back relevancy to the battle phase and MP2, as well as traps and flip monsters.
Obviously this comes with its own sets of balancing issues, but it would be worth it in the long run.
It would divide decks up into categories, like "better at setting up in MP1" or "better at dominating the BP" or "better at setting up in MP2 and ensnaring the opponent." Etc.
They could make monsters effects non activatable during the battle phase unless its effect implies "DURING" the battle phase. The game needs some back n forth. 1turn kills shouldn't be prevalent if your opponent has to rely on the luck of draw to have forbidden drops or dark ruler no more for interaction.
This would definitely be a good start.
Some cards would need to get an errata to replicate their anime effects, plus it’s hard to get to the battle phase with a purpose
Drawing DRNM or droplets wont even help if ur opp FTK’s u or handloops u instead of the build a board of negates
That used to be the case until quick effects were established
You want to go to the battle phase? I ash that
negation effects are the worst thing that ever happened to yugioh. instead of strategy you win by making sure your opponent doesn’t get to play. so lame.
Solitaire is horrid for this game. Interaction requires way more skill! Which is why I play casually and competitively using that kind of strategy. I force my opponent to interact. I refuse to lose due to my opponent having more negates than I have cards.. if I can help it
This is why I like boss monsters like Zeus, Accesscode, Shuraig, Construct, and Dracossack (from back in the day).
They're strong, impactful, can be played around, but aren't generic negates that wait for your opponent to do something like a trap card would. More often than not, they're making the plays at need to be negated! Not saying Borreload Savage and Dragoon are bad cards, but I'm glad that Konami has strayed away from big boss monsters with quick effect negates since the 7s era started.
Yep, negation effects kill the game wholesale. There is nothing fun, thoughtful or interactive about these effects, especially not on power monsters that can use their effect turn, after turn meaning you either win or you don't and close matches don't exist. They hsould just ban all the generic negate boss monsters (Dragoon, Appo, Savage Dragon, Dragite ETC) just ban them and let us play real yugioh again.
@@coardlowery322 nobody is stopping you from playing “real” yugioh. Stop complaining and just look for the right people to play with.
@@gigimei6097 That's just it though, isn't it. It's such an extremely all or nothing, mindless argument you just made. I think the current design is disastrous for the game and the only reason it's in as good a spot as it is now is because of covid basically forcing people to find something else to do.
The game is, LITERALLY, who can -stop-, not hinder or slow down but STOP the other person from playing the game first. It is bad design no matter how you try to rationalize it. And the worst part is that it only benefits which deck can best spam and take advantage of the generic, over powered boss monsters the most to build these unfun boards.
I'm not saying I absolutely hate negates, they CAN be healthy but current design is too heavy with them and far too generic.
What I want to see is decks be a little more unique and to do that we need less generic godly cards like Dragoon and Appo. All I'm suggesting is that we lower the ceiling just a little bit, dump most of the truly oppressive boss monsters. This will allow more unique boss monsters to shine.
But you people don't want that, cause you already overpaid for this cardboard and any idea that your wallet can't win you the game is terrifying. You don't want a fair game of yugioh, because you paid enough so that you don't have too.
And to a degree, fair enough, but in an equally fair degree I don't care about you, or what you spent, or what you want. I care about me, and I care about what I believe is healthiest for the game.
Interruption is fine, negates can be fine. But if we can just lower the generic cards, provide more specific cards then we can move in a healthier direction.
Right now it's which specific deck can make the most generic boss monsters. And so the only strength a deck has is "who can spam more cards" This means that no idea will ever mean anything if it's not spam cards
Traps? Too slow. Battle phase? Too slow. Any amount of set up that can't stop the enemy from playing immediately? Too slow.
If you truly think solitaire is fun, then play that. But I want to play yugioh. I don't want to have a free win cause I rolled first, or an auto-loss because I didn't. And if you think that's ok then you're coping far harder than I though.
Now I will say, right now, the game definitely feels a lot healthier than it was. The decks feel a little more diverse with a little more of their own strategies and I do deeply appreciate the steps, however slow, taken to reach where we are. But just because it's better than it was, doesn't mean it's good. It our money, we -can- ask for better, it's our right as consumers to want better from a product we've invested in.
Optimally, every deck has a 50% winrate against every rate (or at least, say, 20) but that will never happen. I've accepted that, but just a little less oppressive, is that too much to ask for?
TL;DR Games gotten better. Game could get better. Negates not bad, current amount is bad. Less generic cards please.
Thank you for coming to my TedTalk
the battel phase is still much much much more important then you all think!
ever faced a apollousa with low ATK?
now suddenly you realize, that you have to attack (aka waste your battle phase) to kill apollousa, while your opponent has his next turn already set up.
thats such a big problem, it can almost instantly lose you the game, especially, if you cannot kill all your oppoents monsters because of that.
and now add a linkuriboh into the mix.
yeah, the fact, that he sets 1 monsters ATK to 0 until the end of the turn, is now suddenly a game winning effect, and not only that, likuriboh did probebly set up your oppoents GY in the process of summoning it, maybe even startet his combo while doing so.
Paul obviously not touched the competitive scene in at least over a year because ever since the ban of linkross this game gets slower and slower ever ban list. Also probably not good enough to realize the that battle phase is an important resource that high skill players use for different things all the time
Paul must have had a bad string of losses against Dragon Link or something, because Borreload Savage Dragon and Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon always seem to live rent-free in his head. It's honestly quite sad to see. Furthermore, for the past several formats or so, the game has favored more control-oriented strategies, and there are no 5-monster negate boards to be found there.
But is he really wrong? Yeah apollousa had balance like that but he touched on cards like that when talking about herald of the arclight. He said monster negates should have more counterclaim like that. The problem is when you have to find a way around big bosses wiyh high attack. that also have negate or some crazy effect on top of it. I see the point you are all making that the battle phase has gained some relevance, but its a shell of what it was compared to when battle traps were meta. You still can't just battle a dragoon or other boss monsters with similar self protection. I also will say cards like droplets are an amazing start nit there still needs to be more. Maybe if we get enough cards that can shut down boss monsters then battling will have more impact again
I was really sad going back to modern yugioh and realizing that the Battle phase lost it's importance. Now and days battle phase is there if you're able to break your opponents' board or if they couldn't do anything because they couldn't make one. I also strongly agree with what they were trying to do with War Rocks. I thought War Rocks was going to go super heavy in utilizing the battle phase that no other archetype is able to do, and honestly they still play with them if they want to.
Yeah, poor War Rocks get too much disrespect.
One better battle phase archetype is Dragonmaids.
A lot of the battle phase stuff got lost when it just got splashed as an engine in dragon link, but the pure deck is quite heavy on battle phase interaction.
Yeah, the Battle Phase exists only to OTK your opponent nowadays.
I miss when Battle traps were relevant and people thought twice about attacking.
That would mean reverting back to slow progressive play which I refuse going back to. Least Rush Duel format tackled that issue.
I feel like people miss the point of strategy games these days. Its pvp not 1 player playing solitaire untill they win. Just seems boring, interaction is the whole point.
@@thatman666 I think this kinda mind set is boring. It’s not supposed to be over in two or three turns like how is that fun at all lol???
@@justinbarney9895 My mindset was irreversible with stuff like Duelist Alliance on how it set the standard of future card design and how archetypes should be made in the modern era.
Back to Rush Duels, at least players have a fair chance on "rebuilding the castle after it's destroyed" with drawing up to 5. Compared to Master Duels where you need crazy luck if your next card would pull a reversal on your opponent or just pass and accept fate.
@@thatman666 I also do not want to go back to older times but their used to be boss monsters with powerful battle effects that even had to be banned. Like Shaddoll Construct. I would like to go back to those times
I feel you. I miss the times when you had to be warry of stuff like Mirror Force, Kalut, Honest, Gorz or even Battle Fader
Honestly I think what you're talking about can be summarized to me as saying the game is just unbalanced. Like power creep has just led to imbalance. But players just adjust their deck and playstyle to the imbalance so they don't get steamrolled by whatever the current power creep hotness is. But my opinion is a bit skewed as an old player who only recently (like as of last year) started dabbling with the game again
@@nmr7203 you have to break boards because cards have been designed to stop anything from happening. The problem is that there are too many easy to access omni negates now. If it was that each omni negate had specific requirements that made it so playing more than one or 2 in the same deck would be impossible that would be better
@@TraaaaaasshBooooaaaatttt I agree Omni negates should be much harder to summon. (Sort of like Venominaga, she’s my favorite). But if we didn’t have power creep, the game would get stale fast. It’s a thin line to stay on.
Adjust means use a top 10 card
How bout balance the game
Call by the grave is mandatory now
yes omni negates should have lower stats like 1900 atk at max
Dude. I literally just got back into yugioh this week after not touching the game since around 2012. The game has changed so much. I noticed that the battle phase does seem pretty useless and cards required for the battle phase made the game so interesting, more risky and fun. I always feel like my cards just get wiped before I get attacked with me having less options for counterplay. Again, I am new at the game again, so all this is still new.
Do you have switch?
The game is based on power creep, so it's just been getting faster and faster, and worse and worse. I'm not sure that Konami wants to slow it down, otherwise we would have seen limits to special summoning, or adding to your hand, or something.
I really like apollousa's design because of the attack decrease. I find myself outing it via battle many times and that's just neat. The same happens with Herald, as you said. I would like future generic omninegates to cause similar lines of play.
She mostly comes out with 2400 attack not something you can just beat over, maybe after one negate at 1600 which still is a lot for any normal effect monster these days... After 2 negates at 800 it's easily beatable but at that time she has already used 2 negates... Most importantly she is a link monster which means on top on 3+ monster negates she is never alone on the field (which is true for all boards in general but still) so I don't see just summon and swing over appaloosa very often unless your opponent bricked hard and she is alone there on the field
There's definitely some good that has come from a reduced focus on the battle phase. I found it incredibly demoralizing to have my big boss monster that I just sunk a lot of resources into get destroyed immediately by some battle trap because it didn't have any protection. I like your idea though of printing omni negates and other strong effects with much less ATK though. I'm not sure how much it would mess things up, but it would also be interesting if they made it so quick effects (but spells and traps could still work) normally couldn't be activated during the battle phase unless specified.
I'm a competitive player. Going into the battle phase can mean the difference between breaking a board and scooping. If there's a bunch of negates on the board and you've managed to get some high ATK monsters out, going into battle and threatening to get over problem monsters will MAKE your opponent respond. Once your opponent uses his defense, or if you managed to get over his threats, you can then use the resources in your hand to prepare for next turn.
The BP saved me plenty of games. Don't take it for granted.
Yeah, but if they can negate and remove high atk monsters with their board of omni-screw you its kind of hard to do.
*TLDR:* Konami has broken their game so badly that an entire phase of gameplay is now irrelevant.
They did that back when they made 98% of trap cards usless
Although the draw, standby and end phase have become more prominent as of late than they used to be.
@@b1acksteve as someone just getting into the meta, can you possibly elaborate on this?
Also the supermajority of Trap Cards, Equip Spells and fucking Defense Mode.
@@fawfulmark2
You're right about equip spells (apart from isolde decks), not really when it comes to trap cards or defense mode.
Defense mode monsters right now are really common to play around Lightning Storm; trap cards (while they had a period of reduced play under some of MR4) are also pretty commonly used.
.
I think if equip spells are going to come back they'll have to print better equip spells, and if they're doing that they'll need to ban Isolde so they don't get abused.
.
Although honestly, equip spells were kind of powercrept out of yugioh quite early. They'd ceased being the best competitive choice by goat format apart from in niche decks, and Isolde decks fit the same niche nowadays. Premature Burial is an exception, but Premature Burial would be widely played today if it was legal; it's basically a generic Lunalight Tiger.
i miss the days of fearing a mirror force and anticipating battle fader
They tried to do it with War Rocks by giving them advantage if destroyed by opponent's card effects. But that's still kind of a weak float: it doesn't proc if they get banished or bounced or spun and they have to be sent to the grave after being destroyed.
If they had made the float more like Samurai Skull (who gets to use his float if he's banished too) it might've been better.
How to make the Battle Phase relevant again: monster effects that negate activations or effects can no longer be used during the damage step. This makes it so that flip effects and cards that modify stats like [Shrink] can out problematic boss monsters and promote back and forth.
no, just play better decks.
That literally solves nothing lol
That quite literally solves nothing. Battle phase is irrelevant (with a few notable exceptions) for most decks because you get rid of all problems during the main phase amd only use battle phase to otk the opponent AFTER getting rid of all their problem cards. Monster effects are just too strong and have been that way for a while.
If you want to make the battle phase super relevant now, they have to something really drastic like having cards that only allow card effects only in battle phase or cards that prevent all card effects unless destroyed by battle and even that would most likely be either too weak, or if its actually strong then it would be abused as just another floodgate or something
@@sammydray5919
I'm talking about unbreakable boards. My suggestion makes it so that people would have a way to fight back against boss monsters that don't let you play the game and encourages the use of the damage step within the Battle Phase to make it happen. If you can't defend yourself from an OTK, then it's your fault for not playing cards like Battle Fader, but the game isn't healthy when you're staring down a negation board that doesn't let you play.
@@darkglass3011 most cards cant be used in the damage step anyway so your suggestion wouldn't change all that much as far as boss monsters go (only cards like apollusa that manipulate atk along with their negate effects can be used in damage step). The issue would still primarily be that people use monster/card effects to clear the board before entering battle phase so waiting for the battle phase to out monsters via effects would still be mostly pointless.
Thats why I recommended having cards or effects that essentially force it so that card effects can only be used in battle phase to force that kind of interaction
I think with a card like zeus the battle phase gained back a little of its importance and thats kinda cool to me
Too bad that card's pretty pricey
The Battle Phase should have meaning. I agree Paul.
Also we need support for older archetypes. Dark Scorpions for example. Sometimes creating new archetypes are cool but as you can see with legacy support, Konami still makes a mint.
Gravekeepers, Odd-Eyes, Ninjas, Lunalights, Red-Eyes just to name a few.
Better way to search their equip spell cards
Tribute summoning doesn't matter anymore
Trap cards don't matter anymore
Battle phase doesn't matter anymore
Just print a new game at this point...
>trap cards don't matter anymore
Right after almost a full year of Eldlich and Dogmatika being tier 1
*laughs in Unchained/Altergeist/Traptrix set 4 pass*
I mean tributes are going to matter again with the flundereeze coming soon which is nice
Tribute Summon is an ancient relic much like Pokémon Stage 2s.
Rush duels
We honestly went pass the point of no return; we have so many negates that the only real way I can see this being “fixed” would be to make a new format all together where “too powerful” negates are ban.
*coughRushDuelscough*
I believe if they took free or easy to use omni negates off monsters and exclusively kept them on traps or occasionally spells, monsters would be used for battle or answering specific board states instead of end all be all answer to everything cards. Monsters do everything now a days. Need to stop a spell that will ruin your board? Bring an omni negate out. Need to stop a really strong monster out? Bring a knightmare out. Need to stop your opponent from playing? Bring a floodgate monster out. Monsters do everything that spells and traps used to but you get a monster on top of whatever effective you Need at the time,basically making any card that isn't a monster a card that should get you to a monster you Need instead of answering you opponents board.. Unpopular opinion, mystic mine forces more players to play main deck outs to cards besides monsters.
Pretty soon you’ll just show each other your hand and just decide to scoop or not and there won’t be any phases that don’t matter anymore and the game will just die because any new released cards won’t even be used and the competitive scene will die but the casual scene where I play would probably be the normal way to play since all the phases still matter for the most part
War Rocks will finally become a Tier 1 deck if Konami makes Battle Phase relevant again
sorry but they cant beat over my dragonmaids
@@otakotako2601 tako🐙
@@annedrieck7316 🐙supremacy
Waiting for Konami to add the Scoop Phase: "During this phase your opponent decides whether or not they want to continue the Duel"
MR6: Scoop Phase ;D
Every phase is the scoop phase if you try hard enough.
Because what konami should have done is to balance the effect, battle stats.. example:
1. Vanilla Monsters should always have higher battle stats vs effect monsters with respect to their levels
2. Decks should be themed. They revolve around one effect and their battle stats is respecrive of their level.
3. If an effect is too strong, getting them out should be more difficult: like can only be special summoned by... or can only control only one at a time..
Yu-gi-oh can be fixed by allowing no more than one summon outside of your normal summon. That includes link, synchro, etc. In addition, get rid of all monster hand traps. The game will then become playable.
The oldschool battle phase wont come back. There are just too much OP mons that adding battle phase effects arent really relevant anymore unless it has something to do with negation
Imagine a new master rule in which the Battle Phase becomes relevant again. Something like Champion monsters that can get stat buffs from your regular monsters.
That sounds good.
The battle Phase has lost all meaning in modern Yugioh, since the game is already won during the Main Phase. That's the reason why some decks like Gladiator Beasts will never be as good as during the Gyzarus era, because the opponent will simply not let you get to the BP anymore. War Rocks are also a great example on why everyone knew the deck IS BAD way before we even got the full support...........
Day 899 of waiting for Good Pyro/Volcanic Support to arrive in the OCG/TCG..........
Thats why i left yugioh
Almost to day 900...
Volcanic Queen if Good though
i just want a new pyro arc type
Gotta appreciate The Battle Phase! Without it, where will Envenly Matched go?
To the Trash bin XD
@@ryujokatagiri7019 isnt it there already? what decks still play that card? it feels so outclassed by lightning storm, duster and red rebbot. evemn cosmic and twin twister see much more play...
What decks even play that card anymore?? Stuff like dark ruler no more and lightning storm just seem much better than it
Nowadays it’s “create a board with a bunch of monsters that negate” or “negate your opponent from creating said board by using a bunch of negates”
Negates, consistent summon engine, and 3000 attack all in one package is hard to beat. I think if Konami can make the Battle Phase more impactful, that’d be awesome. Maybe monsters that negate the effects of all monsters during the Battle Phase, or puts monsters in Face Down Def? Idk. Still love the game but it’s power creeped to board spam and/or negation
"Omni negate monsters hould have lower stats" I mean, anyone with more than two brain cells would balance cards like this, but Konami unfortunately has half a brain cell only.
Nah, "negate effects and gain permanent boost to atk" is entirely balanced. What do you mean?/S
3000 attack... Sure
Twice per turn destroy a monster and inflict burn... Sure
Can't be destroyed by card effects... Sure?
Can't be targeted by card effects... Sure??
Quick effect negate anything... Sure???
Gain 1000 attack too... Sure????
@@shizukousapostle1stapostle710 what card does this?
Dragoon
Imagine if all/most of the war rocks had an effect that made them unaffected by monster effects - instantly becomes somewhat old school yugioh
a monster can't have 3000 attack points and negate everything and how do you take the battle phase out of Yu-Gi-Oh that just goes to show you how much worse Yu-Gi-Oh has gotten as time goes on
Yeah.. monsters with super strong effects should have low battle stats or unprotected against battle or effects...
Making a 3000+ ATK monster with protection should be difficult to get out or at least be archetype locked, meaning you need to spend a lot of resources to get it onto the field; making so many boss monsters generic just means you can throw them into anything and being able to spam them out in only one turn.
Konami needs to balance the 5 negate boards. People defend this bu saying “oh the game is so diverse right now”. Diversity doesnt mean its balanced.
5 negate boards aren't a thing in this format
Diverse kind of does mean it's balanced but it does not mean it is healthy. It feels like yugioh is slowly dying
@@1Tenno Yugioh Is not dying
@@sw9rd I hope not
@@sw9rd Maybe not financially, but it is dying in morale
just limit special summons and or effect usable per turn
But that would stop players from playing Solitaire with themselves and one turning their opponent or just about. I agree with you 1 special summon per turn, 1 hand activation a turn would make this game slow the hell down.
@@TheLastSane1 doesnt even have to be one maybe 3 but when its like 8-10 its nutty
Hey Paul. Idk if you already do this but perhaps make a pod cast type of video with your teammates I’d love to listen in detail and I think we all would enjoy it!
I think what would help is, similar to what you mentioned with War Rocks, is making one or more archetypes that gain REALLY broken effects in the Battle Phase. Fundamentally speaking, Fusions and Rituals, at their cores, have been terrible mechanics. There's a reason no one played either mechanics for so long. What helped were both those mechanics getting cards that were busted. Nowadays, Fusion archetypes net you a ton of advantage that help replace the costs needed to create their Fusion monsters, and the Fusion monsters themselves tend to have very busted effects that would be absurd on Synchros or Links for example. Rituals too, namely Drytron and Nekroz back then, do the same thing. For the Battle Phase to peak back into relevance, the same would have to apply. Maybe gaining protection during the Main Phase (Perhaps being unable to be destroyed or banished during the Main Phase to prevent decks like Despia from popping them), then getting their actual, crazy effects during the Battle Phase.
One problem that I think can be solved for the game is if Konami does go after the extra deck monsters, it's one thing to have a shiny new deck to come out, but if it can still play old boss monsters then there's no point in playing that decks game plan. If a decent change is to be brought to the game, then limiting or banning cards that make's your opponent being unable to play is one of the possible changes needed to this game. A ten year old trying Yugioh for the first time and literally get's told he can't even play is not a good sign for new young players, especially with how expensive most needed cards are now a day's.
“Battle phase doesn’t matter anymore”
Me as a gren player: 5 negates go brrr
It's a shame because I love my Dinowrestlers. They are meant for Battlefield control in a slightly similar vein to Gladiator Beasts but rely on one-on-one battles (through World Dino Wrestling) and getting the Chimera King fusion out quickly. There's lots of battlefield protection in their cards like Ankylo and Ampelo and whatnot, but unfortunately it can get run over...which I don't like.
As someone who also plays Dinowrestlers, you realize you don’t even play it the way it was intended and play it alongside UCT, Lost World, Oviraptor and Misc.
And your Dinowrestlers like Coelasilat, Systegosaur and the Martials, all end up as tribute fodder for Pankratops’ pop effect.
@@pamoon_ True. Though I DID actually do pretty well playing it straight for a bit. Mostly using stuff like Waboku to ensure survivability. I did recently add in a small dino engine but nothing too heavy. Majority of it being Dinowrestlers. I also added in the 1 Lithosagym because who doesn't love banishing 3 extra deck cards lol.
One idea: introduce cards or effects that can only activate during the Battle Phase and can't be negated by monster effects.
That way you can still have back-and-forth, but giant negate monsters lose their potency and have to rely on battle strength. (Also negating hand traps would be made irrelevant during Battle Phase.)
I feel like the battephase is a safe haven these days because a lot of cool effects stipulate mainphase or mainphase 1 only.
Some pretty cool ideas! I do love the battle phase and want it to be very relevant again.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but one thing that kind of bugs me about deck profiles for archetypes, they end up having the same staples of monsters, including link and synchro special summons that have nothing to do with archetype. I make my decks as pure as possible for the archetype I'm playing. I just have more fun that way. For example I don't like saying I'm running a red eyes black dragon deck, but then the hand traps staple, link summons and other monsters have nothing to do with red eyes black dragon whatsoever lol. They are basically using the synergy of the deck to get the same boss monsters out that are good to win. Even though they are nothing to do with archetype.
I remember realizing how far gone the battle phase was when I made a custom battle centric archetype and sfter thinking "How do I make the deck not suck" and my first idea was to give them archetype exclusive ways to sttsck outside of the battle phase
Any monster effects that only focus to battle phase should be:
1. Immune to negation
2. Cannot respond
3. Kill multiple monsters or deal so much damage on single target
4. Force other monsters to battle it
5. Float effects if you kill it by effect so you need to battle it properly.
If they dont have that kind of quality, dont bother. I dont need War Rock.
Spell and Trap that focus on battle phase are a bit tricky. If they can be negated then dont bother to make them. Make them cannot be responded will make opponent waste their resources to take them out. Destroy them will trigger their dangerous floating effects so the opponents will have to find the unconventional way to remove it. Even with over the top effects, i doubt they will have some massive successes.
And final option, make all the future negation monsters have terrible atk so the battle monster can just kill them by their raw stats alone. If not, dont bother, my Dragun has 3000 atk with negation, target protection and can deal a big chunk of damage by his second effect.
I still think that 3,000 should be incredibly rare. Blue-Eyes lore-wise was supposed to be incredibly powerful compared to everything else. Now the only thing that makes it special is all the support that makes it easy to spam. Now we have a ton of 3,000 ATK monsters that can negate anything, after pop out of the graveyard from their own effect or are completely indestructible.
In general, I like mega-beatsticks that can go over 5,000 you could say they're all I play Yugioh for and now don't play Yugioh since I can't use. I was excited when I saw all the Evil Hero support and thought about coming back for a bit to play Dark Gaia, but the short printing made it not worth cost or time for trying and likely still losing.
Yugioh then - Two green players throwing out their monsters and slamming into each other until someone dies.
Yugioh now - Two blue players staring each other in the eyes saying no over and over until someone scoops.
Meta players never brainlessly slammed monsters into each other. Old School Yugioh was about recourse Management. Most of the time you stalled until you could go for game. Battling did not matter much before 2008 when stuff like Honest, Gorz, Kalut and Synchros were released
@@1Tenno in the ocg the original set had 1 trap and mostly weak monsters with mostly equip spells. It was indeed throw down monster and hit other monster. If you look at set 1 the best monster in the set was silver famg since it was tied for highest attacking normal summon monster without tributes that had an equip spell.
@@amodsr I see, you were refering to yugi kaiba vanilla beatdown. Sure, if you do not mind constantly playing the same deck while also constantly playing against the same deck then it should be fun for you
@@1Tenno Seems you are being slightly aggressive with your comment when I was making a joke about the difference in the game from what it is now to what it used to be.
I don't see why you're commenting as if I don't like complex yugioh game states or the idea of synchros or xyz or link or something along those lines. In no way shape or form was I disparaging the game in any way.
Your comment also seems as if we haven't had metas where we see the same decks over and over and over and over again.
Might I remind you of the time we saw Dad Format during a time when the game saw its newest mechanics, or the fact that the game changes to a point that it just keeps pumping out new ways to summon altering the state of the game to a point that we even have a new game because of it with rush duels which is a completely new game even though it is the exact same game but more or less back to a basic style of play just equally as fast paced as links are.
If you are not being aggressive and I just misread your comment, it just looked like it since you made it about me and not the game itself.
I like yugioh and watch this channel and Cimoooooooo and other channels because I like the content and the game as a whole. I believe that the game is currently in a state of now balancing out since the new show isn't about the original game and they are now making retrains of older stuff. Yes the game is different but it doesn't mean the old stuff isn't also a valid form of playing. Some people like complex game states and a defining meta based around flood gates and control aspects and some people like a simple game state where we can just sit back and casually chill over a game we all love.
With that we don't need to get on each others cases over a game we are all supposed to love. Let's all work together instead of gate keeping each other from what we think is the right way to play the game and applaud different takes so that the community is diverse. I hope this message is taken as a form of me trying to explain where I come from and not an attack and a way for us both to understand each other and not have a quarrel over a childrens card game.
@@amodsr weren't you doing the same when talking about modern yugioh? Sorry but I do not deal in hypocriscy
I completely agree, the battle phase seems to have been shoved to the side in lieu of 8 zillion boss monster negates. I was super excited about War Rocks when I heard about them, too bad they are only half the way there. I always loved the idea of my monsters locked in battle with my opponents and the stronger one or more clever tactically would win. I guess that’s why I always wanted a playable “pure” version of Kaijus, it just sounded cool to me. I’m rambling now, so I’ll end with this: great video and seriously thought provoking. What would the game be like with a shift to slightly more emphasis on a battle phase.
Changing the rules of the damage step so that only direct ATK and DEF modifiers and speed spell 3 cards could be used in it, might help. Dragoons and friends would still be powerful control options. But ones that could be overcome by being aggresive enough.
The same old "Game is power creeped" discussion. It's getting boring.
I have to agree here. Its always "this was important, but not anymore. The game is way different then in the past." Yada yada. I dont mean to be offensive here but thats how it goes. Games change over time, specially games that exist for as long as yugioh has. Plus it has plenty of positivies which are talked about way less then the "negatives".
Yeah no y’all are wrong. Just like someone above said ppl want it to stay this way cuz they spent way to much money to make sure they win by keeping the other player from playing. This isn’t fun and it will never be. And it’s fine that u get to get your kicks with how it is now cuz honestly us having these discussions isn’t going to change anything. Cuz y ppl spend that money to win. Just be honest about it though lol
Yep and the comments are mainly people who refuse to accept this and go like "oh this game would be better if Konami did X and Y" very boring. To those people I just say the same thing.
Play goat format or just try and learn
The battle phase has lost its importance. Everything is determined in the Main Phase 1 by setting up monster negates to the point where the opponent can't summon monsters to into the battle phase and you look at them like: can I play?? This is still a break my board format that hand traps like ash, belle, gamma, droplets to monster effects that when the opponent summons and activates an effect, they're like: oh negate that and destroy it, special summon 3 monsters, wipe your board, and then you can continue.
If their was a summon limit each turn (5-6), the unbreakable board problem would go away immediately. Backrow/monster removal is plentiful, so people would really have to do better strategies than just snowball into everything or stall.
The playing field would open up a lot.
I'm surprised no one has created such a format yet.
Crusadia Avramax is a very very good budget option for a boss link monster and its main effect happens during the battle phase.
The battle phase is your reward for winning in other areas of the game. Getting to swing in is a consequence of a superior board state, for all that might suggest about the state of the game.
In the newest Digimon tcg they have Security Cards where attacking the opponent reveals a card and get some effect or a battle if its a monster. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they made a rule like "after a player receives battle damage, they reveal the top card of their deck, special summon it if it is a monster and activate it if not."
Elder scrolls legends did this in some vein and aggro decks were so fucking swingy and downright not fun to play. Though I don't know if digimon has instant speed interactions
I don't keep up with the meta, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt, but maybe with every card that has a negate, that player has to pay a certain number of life points per turn or per standby phase...possibly depending on the type of negate and strength of the monster.
Otherwise you'll be heading into some era where we'll be activating things when you negate my negate (or vice versa) and it'll will just get ridiculous. It would be funny!...but ridiculous.
Thinking of witch's strike.
eg:
2027: When you negate my negate that negates your negate, I activate this card from my deck that negates your negate.
I’ve caught so many people that were negate greedy with witch’s strike lol
Negates aren't inherently the problem, the problem is that you can combine negates with huge stat lines on the same end board. If a deck were *just* capable of spitting out multiple negates but didn't have access to lethal by combat the next turn it wouldn't be so problematic, but the game is designed such that big stats and/or negates are generic and ubiquitous.
I appreciate this post as a war rock user, older player from the original/GX eras and I love the battle phase focused decks.. have managed to beat my buddies witchcrafter deck quite a few times and have lost sometimes because I misplayed(forgot to use effects of certain monsters) war rocks would have more potential with the right support in the future if they are even going to support it anymore idk and kinda doubt, but maybe because it is the punching bag like you said they may "oh yeah how about now" can only hope so lol
I've been playing ygo for about 2 years now, but have been playing mtg for about 13 years. And although mtg has it's faults the main thing that they do right is give players something easily customizable. Power level is far more obvious then it is in ygo so creating a deck to fit in with the people you play witbh is easier. The people i play with all have certain types of decks that all fit in with eachother so no one is "stronger" then the other and as a result the matches take longer and the matches are far more based on strategy and aren't decided until the end with comebacks being very possible most of the time.
On the other hand, ygo has such a established meta game that everyone plays nowadays that it's hard to play a game without having matches that are decided within the first or second turn without real interaction from the other player.
Maybe ygo needs to implement a Mana system. Least in MTG Blue players have to pay mana to negate things. Or on their turn choose between negating and not developing a board cause they're Mana isn't infinite (Unless specifically set up. CMDR player btw)
@@burpinator1 the best thing they can do, in my opinion, is to put a ban on alot of the old cards and just create a cut off from which era people can play and then start printing less generic boss monsters. They can make generic maindeck and generic extra deck support, but keep the actual end boss monsters more restricted. That way there's less powercreep pressure, and players are forced to think more about which archetype and playstyle they want, instead of just rofl down some generic good cards.
As a commander player myself as well, i feel like that is the perfect format to get fun and interactive games, normal mtg still has the ability to 2 turn someone, but sadly i don't think commander format would really work with ygo.
@@richarddrost5737 that’s so sloppy IMO from an outsider point of view. They’re just releasing shit and banning it later on becuz they aren’t thinking things through. I just came back to ygo from 17 years ago and I’m already done. I won’t duel anyone I’m just going to collect
Rush Duel is that alternate format where battle matters, it just gets forgotten because isn't printed in English.
2019 Paul: The battle phase is dead
2021 Paul: The battle phase is dead....in 4k. ;)
Between this and the previous video about new vs old Yu-Gi-Oh, I am convinced Yu-Gi-Oh needs at least 2 premier formats: a rotating format and a nonrotating format. The nonrotating format could just follow what has been played forever and everyone who loves Yu-Gi-Oh as it is now can just play that. The rotating format however could be used to lower the power level so games can grind out more and last longer, and not focus on high level of negation effects as described here, and give more meaning to combat. The format can be curated to create specific environments that Konami would want to promote and cater to different players or play styles. They could also release new cards that have a high level of support in the nonrotating format but not much in the rotating one that way it doesn't take over a format and overshadow weaker archetypes. This could also help the longevity of the nonrotating cards by not having to powercreep old favorite archetypes because the newer archetypes aren't always directly competing with the old ones for viability (for example: say Salamangreat has already rotated out and Konami wanted Drytron to be viable when it entered the format, they wouldn't have to push Drytron to be at least as strong as Salamangreat to see play, and risk being strong enough to push Salamangreat, or other just decent archetypes, out of a format (side note: do not nitpick the example, I merely chose 2 different archetypes that have put up good results during different time periods to make a general example)).
That could work, but they would have to change the game from archetypes to types and attributes... Also, the old nonrotating archetypes could receive support in their own exclusive sealed products (like what Mtg did with Modern Horizons 1 and 2)...
@@vitorlaet9983 I think they could still do archetypes similar to how they are now, just support would need to be clustered to a few sets in a row. Say if rotation is in Jan/Feb, all the support for any particular archetype would need to start at earliest in the Jan/Feb set and the Oct/Nov set would be the latest set that archetype would have support in so that half the support doesn't get rotated away. At least until they revisit it, then in those case, they could cherry pick key cards they want in rotation, say one piece of support was overpowered the first time around, they just exclude it the next time.
boss monsters with omni negates should lose certain part of their effects if they arent within a deck of their archetype, borrel savage- unless this card is synchro summoned using a rokket tuner and have Boot sector launch in field zone(i understand dragolink already does this tracer rokket to summon but other decks can make savage drago and thats a no no) this cards atk is halved and you only gain 1 counter off of the link monster chosen or the only link monster you can choose is a borrel in gy.
dragoon- gain powerful effects based on where his materials are sent from and the deck should be the weakest but playable or seperate the effects he does have per where the materials come from
sent from the hand- destroy the monsters on the field
deck- deal damage per destroyed monster from this card
hand- send 1 from hand to negate the cards and destroy
- and if this card was summoned using the usual suspects he is immune to targets and card destruction effects
easy to use omni negates now should have to jump thru hoops, pretty certain we're all sick of this but need a compromise a good middle ground. take this with a grain of salt, im not a competitive tourney player but seeing 1 card 6 negate boards is getting sickening
to summarize decks need to pay for the extra dlc to get the best out of the omni negates
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I think it's more about how predictable some meta decks are. If you see a predaplant link monster you better have both hands on your hand trap. If you see a wall of spell books... Get ready to lose. See a Hamon and Uria, time to bulk up or get a wall of cards to beat over it with link dragon or something. But if you do that with the synchro that summons tokens, they're going to nuke it. They see eye of tamaius too many times, red eyes fusion, neos fusion, predaplant whatever... They're gone as soon as they see it.
The game has become more about screwing around doing plan B first, and for cards like red eyes fusion... It's going to kill you. They tried to balance it... But honestly once someone stops using normal archetypes and just goes for levels, types, effects the game changes completely. Ursarctics are great in a synchro token deck, level 7 cards are absolutely gobstompers with mekk knights and XYZs. Level 8s have great control XYZs and Busted Dragravion Numeron nonsense. Zodiacs were some of the messiest level 4 rank 4 cards I've ever seen. Then there's altergeist... Where if they know what you're about to do... They can ruin a lot with one effect. Yeah you spent 5 monsters on that? Boohoo.
But with that being said... If you're playing with real cards... Man life sucks.
Draw phase, standby phase, main phase 1, scoop phase, battle phase, main phase 2, end phase. Next turn.
I think battle phase also suffers from a difference in board building on any turn. In the old game you had to gamble with a smaller investment in the hopes you could make a beatstick or an effect monster that made for a bad time. In the current game you can't afford little investments or else your opponent will make a board that ends on a multi negate or an otk pattern. So battle is a tough option unless you plan to finish the job in one go.
I haven't played at locals in years but since seeing how the game evolved with multiple board negates and handtraps have become heavily prominent. I like to go back to the DS/psp games and I also play Link Evolution on PS4. That's more my speed. I've even kinda stopped trying to see what's new because for the most part. I've recently made a raidraptor Deck and a rokket deck with the structure deck. I use actual traps and have a couple ways to lock the opponent but I don't have the ability to have more than 2 negates at most. I appreciate the video Paul. I like how you guys give awesome of examples of what's going on without a player being in the main scene but for all types of players
This is definitely a benefit for MTG, the battle phase is really interesting since you declare all attackers at once and they are are targeted directly to the opponent (or a planeswalker they control), then your opponent declares their creatures to block, then the damage step happens. There’s a lot of relevant effects like first strike (creature does damage before ones without first strike, meaning that if the opposing creature is killed during first strike, it doesn’t get a chance to deal damage), trample (which causes excess damage to be dealt to the player), and several more. With a big thing being, if you attack with a creature it becomes tapped, and tapped creature can’t be used to block, so unless the creature has Vigilance, if you attack with it, you won’t be able to block the opponent with it on the crack back. Definitely the battle phase makes up the coolest part of the game and allows for a lot of interesting decisions and complex bird states, especially in draft formats, where the board is more prone to being clogged with creatures (there is not a limited number of zones, you can have unlimited creatures)
Agree. I love that you can have any number of cards/creatures on the field. Massive armies going back in forth on card advantage.
I don't see the battle phase having any importance as long as Accesscode Talker is in the game. A generic 5300 attack monster that disassembles entire fields with premium removal makes any battle-phase tactics impossible.
Perhaps a crazy idea but could you see a benefit to merging the battle phase and main phase one? You could see actions such as summoning certain monsters to attack remove a problem monster that is floodgating you before you continue the turn and still have the ability to attack. Probably to crazy and to chaotic haha
Rename it the "Game 2?" Phase
I totally agree with everything you said. I like the War Rock idea and to bring back the battle phase. I would like all the major hand traps to be limited, all the big boss monsters to be limited, and any card with negations to be once per turn. This whole not being able to actually play is not fun.
*Chaos Ancient Gear Giant Has Entered The Chat*
4500 ATK Monster, being able to attack all opponent's monsters and disables monster effects during the damage step. Unaffected by Spell and Traps and does piercing damage.
I think an effect that Konomi could play with is effects that can trigger when they attack or are attacked. For example if this card attacks give everyone 1000 atk points until the end of the battle phase or something. As long as they word it so that it doesn't miss timing, I think this would be an interesting idea to play with.
Maybe balance Boss monsters by adding a tag. Monster Type/Effect/Boss. Then have a rule for only 1 boss monster on the field. Though this would then require errataing everything to add tags. Or implement Mana and give everything a Mana cost like in MTG so we can control tempo, negation, board state, etc.
The game has essentially become nothing more than a card advantage game: all you care about now is having more cards than your opponent.
funny how the best format in the game, aka goat format, from 2005, is pretty much that.
It was always that way lol
@@4und4zich the problem is even more pronounced. In not having a mana system, that's always going to be the biggest part of the game. What helped mitigate that is that most really good cards couldn't be played right away (tribute summons, fusion, ritual, etc.). Now, the power creep is so massive that something like Chaos Max Dragon, which can literally one-shot your opponent and isn't particularly difficult to summon, is seen as casual fodder.
The biggest issue is that Pandora's Box has already been open. The cards in the game now will still win more over cards that can be removed my battle, so without more intervention the game will not evolve.
The only way I see Konami making the Battle Phase Essential again is one of two ways. The First is which I don’t think we’ll happen is for them to Slow the Game Back Down just enough. Or the Second more likely way Is for them to, Start making Monsters with Effects that make the Battle Phase Essential by having part of the Effects reading something like. “……If This Monster Didn’t Attack During The Battle Phase Send It To The GY…” all the while making the Stats of the Said Monster More Enticing than the Effects of the Said Monster.
The rules need to change. New cards won't work because the rules are still the same.
A lot of people saying they miss battle traps. I do not miss fearing them at all outside of meme potential. I love trap cards, I like playing trap-focused decks. But I always hated having to keep my Bwing armourmaster in defense because of Dimensional Prison.
I love boss monsters that don't have to worry about Battlephase Backrow. But I prefer traps to be good in any phase but have utility in the Battlephase as a side-effect of that.
Playing glad beasts in Edison format makes me miss the battle phase interactions that are absent in current yugioh
The Battle Phase might not matter, but oh boy does the damage step matter
*D A M A G E S T E P*
Discard Kalut.
Red Eyes Fusion Errata 1 Fusion Material must be on the field one in the Hand DM Decks easily get DM on the field and Summoner's art can search for Normal high Level monsters it would also ensure that it would only be used in Red Eyes and Dark Magician Decks and not just any deck and Anconda would not be banned or limited
There are decent battle Phase tricks that have become available recently, but people seem to use them less than they should. I'm thinking about Dark Honest, Dark Spirit of Banishment and Abominable Unchained Soul.
The best solution I can think off hand to get the battle phase to have more importance is if and only if Konami starts pushing more and more cards with effects that act around the battle phase.
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I think what would be very cool is if they made cards that could attack on your opponents turn. No more "negate and destroy" just "attack the opponent's 1200ATK starter, with your Gemini Elf."
I think what would be cool is making brand new, powerful archetypes around normal monsters similar to DM, blue eyes, red eyes and the like. I’ve always loved those types of decks
My idea for a solution. Implement a duel links style ban list either in place of or along side the current ban lost and put all omni-negates at 3. So you don’t have to get rid of these cards entirely but make people choose if they want Omni-negates or other powerful cards and at most they can have is 3 Omni-negates in their entire deck at the cost of not being able to place other powerful cards in their place.