Infantilization: A Gen Z Crisis
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
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featuring Lily Alexandre (@lily_lxndr)
thumbnail art by bfly (@userbfly)
shout out to @COLORMIND.mp4 for the quick voiceover
a video about infantilization, racism, tiktok, work, and you.
if you liked the video, consider donating to my ko-fi: ko-fi.com/elliotsayshello
follow me on instagram: / elliotsangestevez
editing and voiceovers by danae o.!
00:00 introduction
00:49 the tiktok
08:20 infantilization as marginalization
20:08 conclusion: there's cool stuff out there - Zábava
As a former child: no, we do not treat children like humans.
and that's great. I think all children should burn in hell
Former child😂😂
As a child, I felt like the adults around me were never comfortable with me being a child. I felt like they were always trying to "grow me up", while (ironically) hiding from me many of the things that I actually required to mature in a normal way.
JPB
@@jpbrooks2it took me a moment to realize that JPB were your initials
I was trying to figure out what acronym that was and internally read it as "Jesus Pucking Brist" lmaoo
That’s pretty normal actually
A lot of people don't treat children like humans. Most treat them like pets. Tell them what to do, flaunt them in front of their friends, fawn over their cute innocence, and resent their budding independence.
It's kind of ironic, since in some ways pets are more humanized than children. Like hitting your pet is an absolute no, it's animal cruelty. But hitting your child is just a form of discipline and commonly joked about in social media
@@shadowcreature5732to be fair, a lot of people hit pets too. I think anyone that hits their kids would hit a pet
My mum unfortunately in a nut shell. I'm 20 but still treated like a kid, but it's some mixed bag, I'm like the comfort animal, there to comfort, not be comforted. But still given everything else, I have to do what I'm told because im a child who doesn't know any better until it comes to a problem within the family, then it goes to me. I was told at 10 I better look after my bro as he has dyspraxia, my mum coddles him, he is 25, can't cook, use a washing machine, though he is perfectly able with support, he doesn't get it though as unlike me I got mad and so I noticed it didn't matter what I do, I'm going to get degraded.
me and my siblings REFUSE to use facebook
so many people my age were treated like facebook safari subjects
"oh hello 1000 people... look at my cute grandkid I just told to smile"
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
@@taylorhope4651 They may not be willing to hit their pet alongside their kid if they view them vastly differently in terms of mentality, like the kid “knowing better” but the dog just being a “natural dog”. It’s a bit like a hierarchy imo, with the “smart and mature” adults at the top, the “inexperienced and rebellious” kids in the middle, and the “Cute and essentially dumb” pets at the bottom. Idk if I explained this well but I hope it’s some good food for thought
Being both infantilized and parentified is a wild trip. Don’t do it, kiddos.
A generation of Narcissists fucked up the next 3 generations down the line with this bullshit.
It often happens in an abusive narcissistic parent and child relationship. You are expected to be emotionally mature for people far older than you who throw tantrums like toddlers. But they make sure to cripple your development, sabotaging your skill building and desires to grow because you would be in danger of becoming independent which would lead to the narc losing their supply.
@@user-nq2oz8tf2l Yep. The funny thing is, he’d always admonish me for not having many friends or being that social, yet he drives everyone around him away.
I paid his bills, I took care of him, I’d leave school to work for him for free, but as soon as I criticized him, I was “just like every other entitled member of [my] generation” and was kicked out.
Yeah that was me lol. I was the "venting partner" for both parents when they were alone with me. Yet, when they were together, it was always things like "you're just a kid" and "you'll know when you get older."
Jej
My mom was abusive and sheltered me at the same time. She wanted me to be her little doll forever, kinda like gypsy rose but nowhere near as extreme. I did not know how to drive, or fix food, do laundry, clean, or even have relationships, work, take care of myself. Nothing. She isolated me and never let me have friends or form crucial relationships or life skills. When I’d try to learn something she’d get so mad at me. Wouldn’t let me even get a job, no way. I’m 24 and she still pitches a fit when I try to get a job, often sabotaging it or threatening to hurt herself. When I moved out she threatened to k!ll herself and constantly begs me to move back in. She didn’t want me to grow up, and it has messed with my head as an adult so bad. My start line feels miles behind everyone else’s. I do feel infantile but not by choice, I was raised to never grow up so I can constantly be under my moms thumb. I think I’m not alone here and a lot of gen z have screwed up parents. It’s generational trauma that gets worse with every decade
I can't believe that there are no replies to this comment. That is a tragic tale, I do hope you get to where you want to be. I hope you get to a better and more stable place in life. I am rooting for you.
ah the classic narcisistic parent moment. you can start with raisedbynarcisists sub then work onto actual therapy once you can get it.
only insecure, immature and selfish imbeciles carry on generational trauma.
Cloverandbiscuit Your mom is a narcissist. Has all the control traits.
Get away and go no contact. It will never change and only get worse.
Crash at a friend, sleep in a van, go to an interim housing shelter and they will help you get a job and encourage life skills.
Never let her know where you live/work.
Have a separate burner phone.
You'll be fine if you do this. Don't compare yourself to others too much. You have your own path.
Many people treat those younger than themselves as less experienced, but why not encourage others or keep an open mind?
Society used to create hierarchies and expect others to 'know their place' and keep that role.
The 1950-60s were a time of social revolution for these reasons.
I'm surprised to see it taking the form that it has.
You need time for You to be young and carefree.
A little responsibility is expected, but you have to grow into handling more.
Which means knowing how much time and energy you can give to something, and how much you need/want for yourself.
Reasons why is the decision process.
Bad, impulsive, or self-centered decisions equal immaturity, depending on context.
It's not selfish to create a stable base. Limit how much help you give others if it drains your energy and joy. ❤
You can do it. Even if your start line is behind, you can catch up. Take your time, learn things, make connections. You'll get through this.
That's narcisism too
I'm gonna go ahead and say, no, we don't treat children like humans.
As someone who once was a child. I agree with this
Ive been saying this for the longest time, and im now a 22 year old adult and i still say the same thing.
I especially understand this because i grew up as a jehovahs witnneds where i literally wasnt treated like a human as a child. But merely just an object my parents had the right to own.
Children are smaller stupider weaker humans with less empathy. Hence why we should treat them differently. But we should still treat them as if they are autonomous sentient beings. Tbh i dont think id want to be a parent based on this fact alone, dont think im responsible enough to raise a human
@@rikifromplanetk8305 Omg yes! In my mother's eyes children were objects, dolls, slaves, maids, etc. I had barely any agency growing up. She controlled everything from how I wore my hair, to my clothes to what kind of friends I could have, my beliefs, my sexuality, everything. And now I'm a 24 yr old on my own and I feel like I'm behind and have to catch up from how restricted I was in my childhood. Add to the layers, I'm a potentially undiagnosed adhd & autism so that already makes it even harder for me in the adulting process.
Yes. Agreed 100% especially with the fact that they aren't given rights until they are adults, especially rights to their bodily autonomy. Adults get to choose what to do with their child and many even claim that children don't have consent. They do. They just don't listen. I can't count on how many times babies, especially instersex babies undergo mutilation just becuase they are different or because their parents encouraged that medical procedure. It's absolutely disgusting.
@@rikifromplanetk8305I agree except for the part on having less empathy and other things. Children a lot of the time are more sympathetic and understanding than adults (from my experience) usually becuase they aren't taught bigoted things. Hatred is usually taught not genetic.
my two cents: adulthood (should) have nothing to do with labor. adulthood to me is compassion, responsibility, emotional self-regulation and working on a secure attachment style. thassit
What is childhood then?
@@freckles4603learning compassion, responsibility, and emotional self-regulation
@@TayDoesStuff and learning to have fun and be creative!
I like this
Thing is, responsibility is often tied to labour for a lot of people
I don't think not wanting to go work has to do with infantilization. Gen Z hates working bc we have work harder than people did 20-30 years ago for example. Like goods were cheaper, housing was cheaper, etc. Like anyone can be highly educated and be jobless. Life is getting harder to live and it more like you're existing than living.
Also we are just collectively more aware and realize “hey this sucks. Hey we don’t have to do this” like no one before this ever thought “you know what. It’d be nice to live in a world where no one has to work and succumb to capitalism to survive”
@@alexoxo1 Lol what. You do realize those ideas are over a century old, right? Our circumstances may be unique, but our collective thoughts are still the same.
@@whydontyoutaco3723 I just said that because boomers pride themselves on accepting ungodly hours of work and licking capitalist boot
no, literally, we as a collective- our generation mostly, is realizing that all of which forms our society now, as it has for our parents & so on- has never worked for nothing. like what even is the purpose of all this pressure just to die of a chronic heart attack? just to add to an imaginary debt of money, for that of our existence, created against us to be controlled? -- there is change, it's with us.@@whydontyoutaco3723
Its less that we work harder, its that we're very demoralized, theres less nutrients in our food, and theres chemicals in our food and water via pesticides, birth control and etc. runoff in the water that is basically poisonous to us and causing health issues.
I am 23 and 4'11. I will always be infantilized. Infantilized by my parents, my friends, my partners, coworkers, strangers. I'll always be too young, too innocent. This causes me a great deal of insecurity with my own body. I can't just get taller, I can't look older. I've been told that I look no more than 12 years old. I can't get jobs because I don't look physically able to do the job. I can't be taken seriously at the doctor because I look too young to have hip or spinal pain. All on top of that, I can weed out the creeps that hit on me because I look like a child.
It's exhausting, its demeaning, and I know I won't be treated like an adult ever, because even little elderly people get infantilized. I won't ever be treated like a normal person my age.
Stop crying about it and start taking advantage of your circumstances. The way we act determines how other people will act towards you. If you feel like you are being infantillized remember that you also might also be acting inappropriately towards the other person and just don't know similar to how they don't know.
hope things will look up for you! your not alone ^^ (5'0)
damn that sucks, but thats not permanent. You ll look like an small old lady and not a child at some point and until then you just have try to loook older with makeup, clotjing, higher boots and the way you carry yourself. Im sorry you have to deal with that but we gotta fight back againsy infantalization! I m sure you have it in you to put people in their place.
@@asandax6 Yeah remind again how are you going to benefit from being infantilized all the time and remove the downsides?
@@tappajaav by pretending to be weak. You can get a lot of things by pretending to be weak (hence why the world has adopted acting like a victim as the status quo). If you are being infantilized then people think you have the qualities of a child and that means you can get away with a lot more stuff than other people can. Although don't go overboard there's a limit to how much you can get away with.
Cartoons are often made for children but they’re still made by adults. As an adult I can watch a kid’s cartoon and appreciate how someone was able to tell a complete story in ~7 minutes while also making it funny and entertaining. That takes a lot of skill
Many cartoons are made with both the idea of appealing to children and their parents. If I remember correctly Lauren Faust, the original creator of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic said that she wanted to make something that kids could enjoy with their parents.
@@GladeSwope Agreed - I've seen clips of what I assume aren't as well-known animes recently that would almost certainly traumatise young kids because of the violence in them, which felt kinda horrific to me (there's a specific word for horror on a deep primal level I'm trying to think of but failing at lol, but in any case it was scenes from "Shiki" being what I felt was the worst example of that).
Hell, I doubt many people who know what Attack on Titan is about would be OK showing that to young kids - but a lot of people would still dismiss it as 'for kids' at face value.
Not to mention adult cartoons do exist. I challenge you to explain to me how a show like South Park, Family Guy, or even more obscure media like Moral Orel are “for kids”. Animation is a medium for all ages, not simply a genre exclusive to children’s entertainment.
And there are also a lot of references in children's cartoons that we as children weren't able to understand
I'd doesn't even have to be dirty jokes but rather the falling over goat reference in my little pony
@@Dazai.Simp.Animaniacs is still the gold standard for getting adult humor past the radar.
It is so incredibly frustrating that maturity is constantly equated with... Just going to work.
Truuuueeee
And paying bills😂
honestly. it's just measured by how much labour you can provide
@@dliap98DEADASS
should be definitely about mental maturation and how you treat others.
For women, it's also being married (and if you are married, also having children). If you are single, then you "need to grow up" and find a husband, even if you are content being on your own.
Here's the difference from someone who lived it. I was born in 1981 as kids starting around grade 3, we walked to school or the bus without parents. We would come home from school with our own key, let ourselves in, grab a snack and go play outside unsupervised with all the other kids until our parents got home and called us in for dinner. If mom needed buns for dinner she sent me to the store with money while she cooked.
Then I became a mom, all the rules changed. God forbid you sent your kids outside to play while you clean the house, now you have to take them to the park and watch them the whole time. Kids aren't expected to work things out themselves because adults are always around to mediate.
I tried to give my kids some of the freedom I had but I can totally see at 17 my daughter is mentally younger than I was at her age because society has kept them under constant supervision until they are old enough to get a job.
It's not even just being with your parents.
I'm gen z, definitely not "grown up" by any means, I'm entering adulthood now (20).
I was a part of the first group of "iPad children". Granted, iPads didn't exist when I was a kid, but for as long as I can remember, I saw a screen more than I saw actual people. My parents were often either busy or emotionally unavailable, and I didn't have them around as much, but I also didn't have the experience that you got.
Instead of running around, learning about the world around me, and actually experiencing life, I was put in front of a computer, or a tablet, or a phone.
I was alone and unsupervised, but I didn't have any experiences to put in that place, my entire childhood was spent wasting time instead of making memories. This has impacted me up until now, I feel like I skipped a decade of development.
We are robbing children of an actual childhood. Kids need to experience love and support from their parents, but also real life experiences that will prepare them for adulthood. When I have children, they aren't getting screens.
@@rocks.and.soup. I agree but we need to stop blaming parents. We went from one parent always being in the home, raising the children and taking care of the home. Then when I was a kid, both parents worked but the kids could run around, ride bikes and play while the parents took care of the home. Then we became parents and the rules changed, we're to both work 40+hrs a week to keep a roof over our head and food on the table, we are to take care of the home AND take the kids to the park and soccer and be involved. Reality is we got a generation of overworked, stressed, tired parents who handed their kids screens so they could get things done because they were no longer allowed to just send the kids outside unsupervised.
This has stunted kids, they are not out from under the eye of adults until they hit college or their first Jobs.
Then you add Covid which took 2 years of natural social development away and we have a generation of 20 year Olds that are socially still adolescents.
I think a lot of the extreme way society see kids independents now stems from the missing children’s panic of the 80s and 90s. The public was scared into keeping kids into solitary for their own safety. As public spaces shrink and online access becomes inescapable I’ll get worse until there’s no more I believe
@Woodmont_911 it's more than that, even kids being left at home. I remember calling my mom at work because I was scared it was a bad thunderstorm. If that were to happen today, the authorities would be called on my mother for child endangerment. In other parts of the world, children are still allowed to be children and they are much healthier than our depression riddled generations being raised in isolation.
True. We could run the hood but I also remember everyone knew everyone. You knew your neighbors and neighborhoods had phone books so yeah you were free sorta. You were watched and reported on. Generally by the time you got in your parents knew what you had been up to. Mostly it was being handed responsibility. Many of us kids worked, raking yards and shoveling snow. We worked for the money to buy a tape or record, maybe a soda at the mall and a game at the arcade. Chores were the norm and often for allowance. We had the money to buy candy at the shops all on our own. We participated in capitalism at a very young age. Parades all us kids decorated our bikes on our own and rode in the parade. Halloween you got together with friends and made costumes because those store bought ones were bad🤣. We went trick or treating with friends, not our parents. My dad dressed up once and sat on the porch like a decoration to scare us kids, boy did he. We had so much responsibility and kids now days have 0. No one treats them like they have a brain and no one dares put expectations on them. If they are failing at school, pass them anyway. Give them all a trophy because they showed up. How are kids supposed to find their place? I had friends who paid the mortgage for their parents when times were tuff. They knew they had value, saved their homes. Friends who bought what they needed so their parents could pay the bills. We worked and contributed to our family and we're a valuable part of the home. What do kids have today? Nothing is affordable, jobs just really suck and college is impossible. Who's working their way through at today's cost? There was a great deal of pride in kids who worked their way through college. They learned to balance work school and friends, it was hard. Those not college bound left highschool having a skill. Auto mechanic and woodshop could get you a good job after graduation. By 20 many of us gals had kids and were married, because we could move out at 18 into our own place. Kids now? They cannot. They have to stay home. Life has changed for the younger generations and it's changing more here soon with AI set to take more jobs real soon. It might be genZ has no jobs to go to.
I’m so tired of infantilization. I’m almost in my mid 20s. My dad still says things like “when you grow older you’ll understand” or “You don’t get it cause you’re young, I know what’s best for you, just listen”. I’m tired of people around me perceive me as childish because I like cartoons and stuff animals. I just want to live my life! I like those stuff because they brought me that nostalgic feeling of peace that I rarely had during my childhood.
While yes you are still young, you're not a kid anymore and being treated like one is so silly. I'm 22 and still get treated like a kid. I know I still have lots to learn but ugh.
@@mhmtakeyatime9000 we are young and that’s okay! Humans mentally grow at different rates. We are at an age where we could think for ourselves. It’s so dehumanizing when people who are older than you think that their advice are absolute just because your opinions opposed to theirs.
As someone who is turning 30 next year; they're not kidding about that, at least in my case. My sense of self at 29 compared to my early to mid-twenties is night and day. And, it's cool, because people past 30 are much different than people in their twenties, and obviously your friends now will probably go through the same things you will on the way to 30. I guess a lot of the artifice of twenties life just falls away at this age.
And, also, about advice, you learn to take what you need, and leave the rest behind. But, you listen. Also, you stop thinking about advice as facts, you take everything the advice giver is as a person into consideration, and then 'you' decide, but nobody knows what is best for you except you.
Don't let anyone take away the agency of your own life that's how you end up miserable and following somebody else's path. Everyone who gives advice is an incredibly flawed person, remember that. But some aspects of their viewpoint might help.
Sounds like your dad is the one who never grew up. If you can't explain something to an adult, you do not have a valid reason for expecting them to listen to you. In fact, if you can't explain something to a 12 year old, you do not have a valid reason for expecting them to listen to you. Most adults learn that fairly early on in life. The fact that your dad hasn't says more about him than about anyone he interacts with.
That being said, there are lessons that only can be learned with experience. But there is never a valid reason to use degrading language in those situations. A simple "I've had to learn this the hard way" is more than enough in those situations.
you live at home playing with toys and watching cartoons at mid 20's but yet you think you should be treated like an adult? you can't figure this out? hint: your father's not the bad guy here
It is hard to grow up when there is no space to grow... no house to buy, best jobs taken, etc.
Isn't it? The sooner you realise, the better. So you will not be seduced by the mirage of hustle culture or some other shit. Preserve yourself as much as possible. That includes enjoyment of whatever media, sports, games you really like even if others deem them childish. Adulthood brings you no prize and no joy. Not anymore... The sixties are far long gone.
@Nenki9 even then it never did lol
@@Johnny_T779boom 💯💯
@@thelemon5069 Yeah, but at least you had a house, a job that could sustain a family by being the only one who worked, and an economy that wasn't fucked
THANK you.
As a 31 physically disabled man restricted to a wheelchair I've experienced infantilization my entire life even from my extended family
i literally cannot understand why this happens. it's incredibly disrespectful.
Same I'm not in a chair but I'm permanently disabled as well I'm either infantalized or called lazy
I once met this asshole who said that you should be infantilized if you have accommodations, but I told him no. You should be respected and treated like others in spite of your accommodations and that accommodations simply make it easier to live in this world otherwise inaccessible to you.
I’m physically capable but yeah I was infantilized by my grandparents growing up. I am an undiagnosed autistic adult and I am trying to get a full diagnosis because as always what I say carries zero weight.
yes, This! as User Experience designer, this is problem I have to keep fighting with,
I noticed that everything has been “babyfied” or “dumbed down” even, with the excuse that it’s supposed to be easier to everyone to use, to the point I have to protest some designs being just Offensive, who would Not hate it to be treated like this?
yes, make it Accessible, yes make it Readable, yes Not Over Stimulating, yes make it clearer, but don’t make it so infantilized!
it’s sadly, usually to expensive and takes to long, to have trials with actual people, to test it all out, so many designs end up just over simplified,
so when I - me a regular person, see this as a problem, how does that even look to a person “to whom this is supposed be for” like this sounds like an insult,
“make it easy for them” excuse me? how about “make it for them”? not just “easy”, the word is so dirty to me now,
only entitled people have it “easy” in life, the rest if us have stuff to deal with and none of it is easy.
I spent my entire childhood not being told what was going on and being left in the dark and now that I'm an adult I'm discovering just how much I don't understand or know how to do, because nobody ever prepared me for it, and when i have to ask for help people treat me like I'm infantalizing myself for apparently not magically gaining the mystical "adult knowledge" that I guess everyone else got as soon as they reached 18.
Like no, you don't just "know" that, someone taught you, which is something I didn't get to experience.
It really doesn't help that I also have adhd and depression, and some people think that me taking medication is somehow me trying not to grow up???
I literally need these meds to function because my brain doesn't make these chemicals. Becoming an Adult was never going to magically fix that. Ignoring it or pretending it can isn't going to fix it.
It's especially frustrating when you're treated like a child and then are accused of "acting like a child" for not immediately having your entire life figured out at 18 by people over 40 who struggle with the exact same problems but instead of getting help they choose to ignore their problems and pretend they're perfect while just continuing to make themselves miserable.
I think some of the older generations are bitter and jealous that their mental health was often swept under the rug due to stigma or lack of treatment options. They were told to just "toughen up" for decades of their life, never getting any help or relief, only to see kids and younger adults getting the care that they themselves were denied.
But they still won't admit that they need help, because they "turned out just fine", and either can't or won't admit that their life could be better with treatment, because they see treatment as "the easy way."
They spent years and years convincing themselves that they didn't need any help, that they were strong enough to get through it alone, because that's all they could do. And after so many years they develop a sort of pride around that, which causes them to see getting help as "weak".
True. The older generations need more help than we do, we have some self awareness but alot of them are seriously disordered and lack it.
I AGREEE and "I spent my entire childhood not being told what was going on and being left in the dark and now that I'm an adult I'm discovering just how much I don't understand or know how to do, because nobody ever prepared me for it, and when i have to ask for help people treat me like I'm infantalizing myself for apparently not magically gaining the mystical "adult knowledge" that I guess everyone else got as soon as they reached 18.
Like no, you don't just "know" that, someone taught you, which is something I didn't get to experience. "
REAL.
And then it's suddenly... bad to try to learn as a child? "Enjoy your childhood"
I had some severe mental problems in college, back in the Sixties, and LUCKILY a lot of my friends were seeing shrinks. I was embarrassed to be "so weak" that I needed to ask for help, because I was brought up to suck it up. I needed to see a shrink; I did see a shrink, and it really helped. But I do see the other side of it. I was undiagnosed Aspergers, and to tell the truth, I'm glad I was undiagnosed. It forced me to develop social skills on my own, since I realized that no one was going to help me on that score. I had to figure it out on my own. Being diagnosed can easily become an excuse for non-functionality. Yes, it's hard to be social for someone with no social instincts, but that's just the way it is. I had a student in one of my classes who had had brain trauma from a motorcycle accident. He wanted to do an open-book test, and I wouldn't let him. He said it was unfair that he had to memorize things that were so very hard for him to memorize. I told him "You'll just have to work harder than other people." He got an A in the course by applying himself, and I'm sure that was good for him. It showed him that he could succeed even though he was not as smart as he used to be.
this is such cope. you have to go learn it for yourself--stop waiting for someone to teach you. i have adhd too, and im doing just fine, largely because i didn't wait around to be pandered to. growing up and being mature means doing work, actually learning about how to move in the world. stop being lazy.
I spoke to my dad a few months ago about how I was parented, and by the end of the conversation he asked me a question, "Have I failed you?"
I couldn't answer him. All I could manage to do was cry.
I know he tried so hard to be a great parent to his children. But I now have crippling anxiety, I can't go outside. I have serious difficulty talking to people which often makes them upset or confused, I don't do things unless explicitly asked to do them, have never had a job, and dropped out of high school after the first year because my parents had no clue how to help me to succeed. I had been failing every class for 4 years in a row and still getting pushed into the next grade. Eventually, I gave up and solely focused on the things I genuinely enjoyed doing to try and cope because at that point, I had begun to self-harm. I did the things that I knew how to do well, art. I started drawing obsessively during classes until I only succeeded in art and music. I could only focus on one educational subject (ex. Math, Science, English, History) at a time next to the ones I was actually good at. I would try to get the grades up in one class, and fail in three others. The grade in the one I had focused on last was abandoned. It dropped every single time. Nobody taught me how to manage these things and I was left behind as a result.
The stress from trying to succeed was killing me. I was getting sick every month, my nose bled when I got up in the mornings, I was losing weight, I was getting severe headaches at the age of 16, I was even losing muscle mass.
All the while my parents would say how disappointed they were in me for not applying myself, saying they knew I could do better. I gave up because no matter how hard I worked, I couldn't make straight A's anymore. When they constantly told me how I needed to try harder when I was doing my best, I had no choice but to forcefully lower the bar by being a failure. I wish my parents knew what they were doing. I wish my mom wasn't afraid to grow attached to me. I wish I was given the resources I needed to succeed in life. Unfortunately, I was never given these things. Only the bare minimum, food, shelter, clothing, and education.
That question, "Have I failed you?" rings inside of my head as an echo, because I, in turn failed my parents' expectations due to their inexperience. I felt horrible, because despite my best efforts, I was never enough. Despite my parents' best efforts, they were never enough. We both failed. I simply gave up sooner.
I can't tell you what I'll be doing in the future. I can't tell you where I'll end up. I can't say I'll be alive or dead. I won't know until I'm there, wherever "there" may be.
Buying and selling foreclosures?
@@the_expidition427
What?
Virtual hugs to you (w/ consent) 🫂
Sometimes when you hit a bottom there’s no where else to go but up. Sending you hugs 🫂
I feel you.
If I could wish for one thing, it'd be for my parents to see where they succeeded and where they failed in raising me. I love them and I know they tried their hardest, but they really, REALLY just weren't cut out to be parents.
People have been describing me as mature for a long time, but in truth I was just going through a hellish time and had no motivation or energy to act like your typical child/teenager.
It's sort of wild because my mental health has been getting better recently and I've caught myself acting more stereotypically childish and silly. And people around me see this and think I'm being out of character, give me confused looks and all of that.
In short, I went through a big part of my life acting like an adult inside a child's body. And now, I feel like a child stuck inside an adult's body. Crazy stuff.
I’m 19 and I literally feel like i’m just a kid wearing an “adult” human suit. Like what does it even mean to be an “adult”. I wasted my whole childhood wanting to be an adult because I couldn’t really be a child. I don’t wish I could be a child again but adulthood isn’t looking to great either.
Yeah this is super relatable :') being a mixed black person who hit puberty very young, I feel I was adultified rather than infantilized, seen as "naturally mature" so people never taught me how to be an adult... which I wish they would've cos turns out I'm autistic AF and have no idea what I'm doing now I'm in my mid twenties LMAO
I feel this. I just turned 26 and it's my third year unemployed and trying to deal with PTSD caused by a whole bunch of events through my childhood and early twenties. I actually had a good career three years ago and was doing well before things hit the bricks, now I can only take each day as it comes. Still, things are going a lot better for me than they were when I got my diagnosis, and a lot of it is just having time to learn how to be a person - being able to be curious and playful, instead of living in survival mode.
@@delphidehavilland Yup, exactly that. They see you as mature, so they don't bother teaching you things thinking you already have it figured out. We don't though, and I feel so lost when it comes to so many things because of it. And asking for guidance just seems impossible because I don't want to break this version of me they have inside their head of someone who's perfectly capable and well-adjusted. It sucks.
@@avamin0s oh yeah that last part! I worry that no one would take me seriously if I told them how much I needed help, cos it totally conflicts with how they see me and the mask of functioning that I've put up for so long... I've literally learned how to adult from Tumblr posts and advice columns like Ask A Manager cos my parents just chucked me out into the world and expected me to be completely fine :') it sucks that so many of us have to go through this
What I've noticed is how intertwined infantilization and consumerism is. It's really easy to allow things like Disney to fill in the void of expression of childlike wonder in a world of capitalism where you are constantly pushed to be more and more efficient.
My hope as a parent is that my daughter is allowed to have her fill of being a child while being empowered to grow into what she wants to become.
short and to the point
I think it is more caused by industrialization and government power. People have become increasingly dependent on society as a system and independence is actively discouraged. Growing up, becoming an adult, is all about becoming independent. Why grow your own food when you can just buy food from a supermarket? When does anyone have to time to learn a variety of skills when they need to constantly pay bills? Jobs have become all about specialization and we rely on others to do what we can't. This is not entirely a new thing but it has become somewhat more extreme. We now rely high tech stuff that is simply not feasible for anyone to make by themselves. It simply is not possible to become independent in modern society. Almost all land on the planet is owned by someone, and the majority of people do not own any land.
@@elio7610For real. What is yours anymore? Mind you, we also tend to rent than buy just because it’s cheaper to do so, and even what we rent may not last forever. It’s all just a way to make sure you keep kissing someone else’s ass.
@@elio7610not just that- what you're describing has been going on since the dawn of agriculture. But we used to see it as "doing your part in society" and it used to be a mark of adulthood. There's just something particular about our current mindset that leads us to believe we should be doing it all ourselves and feel like failures when we don't.
My parents didn't buy their first house until their mid forties- but look at all the messages we get saying if you're 25 and have roommates you're a failure who isn't making enough money to be an adult. In other cultures you're 25 and living with family and still full grown. We've moved the goalposts to impossible levels and now we're asking why people don't feel they've met them
"Capitalist Realism" by Mark Fisher is a great essay, that describes in some parts exactly what you just said.
Children are treated as objects/animals. Im also autistic and i look much younger than i am. Ive always hated being treated as a child even when i was a child. I understood it was wrong. And now as im 28, im treated as 18 or younger. People think its okay to yell at, command, pity, manipulate, control, grab and hit children. This isnt right.
I’ve been treated like an adult while I was a kid because I was supremely depressed and therefore “mature”. Now I’m an adult in college and I’m infantilized because I’m a optimistic person. I’m sorry I’m trying to enjoy my life and I’m finally able to feel being happy.
A little context I am autistic
No worries, you’re good. Do whatever makes you feel good (within reason of course)
About the "Do we treat children as humans" question: I worked at a daycare for a couple of years, and I find that many times adults forget just how much children understand. One of my favorite instances from work was when one of the 2 year-olds in the daycare was pretending to drive a car while explaining to me that he tied the spare tire to the car with a rope and a drill so that he won't lose it. I love this story because I find that it shows that while there are things children don't understand (like the fact that you don't tie a rope with a drill), they are really good at understanding the general context of things. It's truly amazing how much children understand about the world around them.
Yes, I completely agree! I’ve had similar experiences, both from my own memories as a child and in my later interactions with children. Kids can do so much if we foster an environment for them to exercise their full abilities and mental capacities.
We all pick up little bits and pieces at a time. That's how it works.
It's not very often people get the gist of something complex in one observation. It almost always happens with little bits and pieces at a time. What we, far too often, take for granted, even ignore, as adults is that, though not omniscient, we've already picked up a great deal of the little bits and the young have plenty to go.
That's why exposing them and getting them comfortable with every necessary aspect of life is important; so they're not missing valuable bits and pieces of information and not freaking out when exposed to something they don't understand.
Its sad as an autistic kid I picked up the fact that everywhere is an ableistic hellscape and neurotypicals are the borg
And they give you the eye when you try to baby them.
So true, i once saw a little child lining up all toy cars behind each other. I asked the kid what story was going on, and he explained to me the cars were stuck in traffic because of an accident... Kids are very observant and smart indeed!
When people reject infantilisation by talking about romance and sex they’re indirectly infantilising people who don’t feel those things. I’m so sick of this.
You are right, there is a unfortunate implication there. I think people do it because they is the one thing we can all agree is not for children without stopping to think about it. "Adult content" is a common euphemism for "sexual content" after all. However it is clearly not the most important difference between an adult and child, it is just that the real difference is hard to articulate and doesn't get the same visceral reaction.
Bruh im at work and my boss says to me (a 22 year old man) one of the cashiers i manage (26 year old man) is "immature" because he isnt into sex or relationships.
In my head, im like bruh thats the dumbest thing i heard, this dude is 4 years older than me too.
@@MrQuantumInci think the only way to realistically have this discourse is to talk about things in a completely medical and scientific way.
There should be absolutely no implications whatsoever, and things should be discussed in a percise and consistent way. Simply because this is a very specific issue.
"Adult things" is a very subjective and vague phrase that should be defined. What exactly should we not educate children on? At what age is it appropriate to educate one on such things? Why are those things adult things?
These are all questions that are definitively answerable to at least some degree. I think the only way for people to actually get past this whole infintilization thing is to be less subjective.
Instead of saying "because its bad" we should being saying "its bad because"
Yeah..... And when you're ace/aro, you get acutely conscious of how much the signifiers that you're 'grown up' and 'have it together' on personal side are tied to dating and marriage
⚠THIS COMMENT IS USLESS AS FUCK⚠
also not everything I say here is true. I may say some things wrong
oohhhh thats why teens in germany are being treated as grown ass womans (the consent age is 14)
there was one time where a german youtuber whos called cosmodore groomed and stalked a 15 year old girl and almost wen't to america just to be with her. one point he made was that 14 year olds are considert adults here and as a german myself I can say that they're not considert adults BUT are treated like ones at least in my city
Being "adult" is overrated and when you grow you understand that in fact no one has any clue of what they are really doing most of the time
bad take. we are tired and find comfort in what we find comfort. doing meaningless work to then see nepo babies living carefree lives on ttok is so surreal - the only difference between us and them is literally the birth lottery. why should i aspire to be a cog in the machine of the sociiety i live in? FOR WHAT? and say you like your job (i do) but it doesn't pay enough - for me, all of it goes to rent and groceries!! we. are. TIRED.
Exactly
All aspirations exist within the "machine."
"Do we treat children as humans?" From my own observation a lot of adults forget what it feels like to be a child. They think children are these empty minded animals that need to be told what to do (look at you american conservatives). They do things like bark orders and snatch toys and books from children because "im the adult I make the rules", but all it does it teach those kids to grow up into helpless adults who throw tantrums or worse totalitarian adults who terrorize others.
"I think we underestimate what children are capable of" By the time my Elder was 4 years old he was basically responsible for his younger brother. Both parents were useless (father was physically and mentally a terror and mom was the helpless enabler) Sure mom and dad provided food and shelter but the punishment dealt was always unjust and there was little to no emotional comfort. So now he's in his 60s fighting against child abuse by starting with the simple truth that EVERY CHILD IS A HUMAN BEING and "Not a human 'doing'" as he says. Children inherently deserve respect and autonomy and careful guidance - not obtuse punishment and rule following.
I point this out to highlight the reality that people who dehumanize children are probably also dehumanizing themselves. There are adults who need a time out, but instead project their dysregulation onto their children. I hate when adults say "xyz is for children" because it's a lie people tell themselves to justify the pain of not accepting yourself completely. It's a lie because... adults are the one's who write, edit, animate, direct, and produce children cartoons. Like... adults are the people who design Lego sets. Everyone BTS of Bluey is fucking adult. These types of entertainment are not mutually exclusive.
Yes👏 I really liked what you said as children are human beings not doings!! And I think it’s so weird the way adults look at entertainment or things that are shoved into the category “for children“ and write things off before giving any thing a chance or decide to ridicule said things.
Yes and amen to this 😊!
Teaching small kids about calculus, complex/imaginary numbers, quantum fields, &c. is often-in my experience-easier than simply mentioning those same topics with adults.
Andrewism has a great video called "Rethinking Parenting" that critiques authoritarian parenting. Well worth the 20 minute watch.
I've been thinking about this a bit in recent weeks as well. We really don't treat kids like people and it's a little jarring to realize just how much we don't treat kids like people.
The idea that adults consuming children's media is a form of self-infantalization is an interesting concept, because it means that we inherently see children's media as lesser--less serious, less important, less capable of conveying "truths." For me, this speaks volumes on whether we treat children like humans. The answer is absolutely not, when media directed at them is seen as lesser, just because it's directed at them.
I do think it can be problematic to do nothing but consume children's media and like, play with toys as an adult, but anything is problematic if it's all you do. Is it inherently less valuable or more problematic to spend your free time watching Powerpuff Girls instead of Keeping up with the Kardashians? (No shade to anyone who watches the Kardashians, I'm just trying to make a point). What makes children's media less valuable than adult media? I think this is an important question to consider.
THIS!This is a thought that has been marinating in my head but just could not phrase!
The comment about being "willing to cut people some slack" for watching Powerpuff girls in the interview felt so off to me because it really just felt like she was inserting her personal opinion of it into what was meant to be a more serious educated breakdown of this issue. Like, the people who enjoy shows like this do not need anyones permission and they do not need a stranger to cut them slack, it felt ironically sort of demeaning and this is coming from someone who doesn't really watch TV generally anymore lol
Thank you. I love cartoons.
Also to continue with that point which you brought up- why is consuming video games inherently infantilizing? The demographic for games is majority adults and or teens, is it infantilizing because it’s escapism? Most of these video games are made with the idea of learning, that you have to figure out how to play the game yourself to play it. It doesn’t really feel like something which is dehumanizing and or infantilizing because how exactly are they making us lesser?
It also brings to mind shows like Bluey which are primarily consumed by children, but often very healing for adults. The show has also been stated as a "parenting teaching" show rather than a "kids show" which is really interesting.
That TikTok is such a mood, though lol
Obviously it’s just a joke, but everything she described really was the early 00’s chick flick fantasy I saw over and over again as a child. It made being a teenager or adult look so glamorous and desirable. But now I’m mostly concerned with not getting sick so I don’t have to worry about medical bills and preparing to spend $300 on a new windshield for my car because of hail. There is definitely a part of my lizard brain asking “where are my massages and shopping trips and glamorous outfits?” when I have bad mental health days because the idea is so escapist and was so ingrained in the media from my childhood. Escapism is rarely truly representative of what I actually want. Not having things to do besides just shop would drive me crazy. But, in my worst moments of anxiety and overthinking, the idea of mindless fun sounds like a miracle.
that's because those movies were written by rich people living in los angeles, they're writing about their own lives
Exactly what I was thinking !
This really wasn't about the infantilization of gen z, just broadly rambling about infantilization with no direction.
LMFAOO. still was a nice watch
Why are cartoons and video games frowned upon for adults? Life is hard, so what’s wrong with checking out after college or work with a game or comforting show?
I hate that adults are expected to be serious all the time and watch paint dry for fun. Let people enjoy things.
Late comment but it's because those are seen as entertainment for children, and not being 100% productive 100% of the time is a bad thing in society.
@@AyaneFukumi
I hate this view and the idea that not being productive is "lazy". The concept of laziness is capitalist propaganda to force people into thinking they're worthless if they're not productive. Truth is, billionaires see EVERYONE as worthless, it doesn't matter if you're productive or not. We are stressing ourselves out for nothing.
@@frenchrevenge6406 yeah exactly. People NEED time to relax.
@@frenchrevenge6406from a biological perspective, being able to have leisure time is a sucess and humans are NOT built to work all the time
It's interesting how so much of the narrative at the end of High School and the beginning of college is that, "At some point, you'll need to choose between Video Games and Homework." That doesn't make much sense if you think about it for a bit. While I may not be able to play nearly as often as I could when I was in high school, I still love to play video games. A better way of putting that argument is that you may not be able to play nearly as often as you could. Enjoy your childhood while you have it, but don't abandon your hobbies and passions simply because you have college or work.
I especially hate the infantilization of neurodivergent people, its perfectly fine to consume/enjoy media for kids but its different to treating eachother like silly little kids. Im not talking about age regression, but ive noticed it and it annoys me. I feel disconnected to alot of the modern autistic/adhd communities around me because of it
However, where is the line between "treating like kids" and say, _not_ treating them too much like "normies" that it makes them have to expend extra effort (that is very tiring to do day after day) to communicate? I.e. is using appropriately literal language with a suitable autist type person "infantilizing", even if they may be a kind that genuinely _needs_ that so the interaction can be even remotely pleasurable and not feel like an insane amount of work?
Quite frankly, it disturbs me how eager people are to applaud an enabling parent treating their 30+ year old adult autistic son or daughter as though they were 10 years old.
They don't even see autistic individuals as human.
@@Cherryblossoms110 had that happen to me. Yet at the same time I was expected to be the parent for both my brother and parents throughout my time stuck in that abusive household.
This!! Infantilization of disabled, autistic and neurodivergent people is very upsetting. I’ve been talked to like a small child and still haven’t fully learned proper s3x education 😢 Disabled, autistic and neurodivergent people are not taught proper s3x Ed because non disabled individuals think we’re “too innocent”.
This is part of what makes getting diagnosed so hazardous. Categorizing people doesn't always help people understand others and can lead to even less understanding as people stop even viewing someone as an individual and instead just as a stereotype.
i feel kind of annoyed at the whole "everybody is infantilizing themselves now!! and also that is awful and these people are bad for that!!" shtick for multiple reasons. i feel like not only it's often directed at ppl literally just having fun and having hobbies and expressing themselves and generally just being actual persons instead of some hyper-restrictive pointless bland ideal of how an "actual adult should be", but also it's just inherently aggressive towards folks with childhood trauma, many adhd/autistic folks and ppl who just had their childhood marred for whatever other reason. many adhd/autism traits are seen as childish (like sensory issues or hyper/understimulation or executive dysfunction or stimming or even just fucking. being visibly happy abt something), finding comfort in anything is seen as childish, MANY hobbies are/can be seen as childish, even grieving the years you have lost to mental illness or to traumas caused by growing up with undiagnozed neurodivergency can be seen as childish bc "well life is just unfair, get over it".
something something mitski lyric "And I was so young when I behaved twenty-five Yet now, I find I've grown into a tall child"
thank you for writing down my exact thoughts bro
My thoughts exactly, it’s just another form of ablism imo
@@soupcat4143 That's a banger line
I think it's a mixture of learned helplessness where we actually genuinely have been "taught" that we can't do any better and that we can't change, and of genuinely bad people abusing it to avoid consequences e.g. "oh! i can use X mental illness as an excuse to just continue doing Y behaviour instead of actually changing for the better :)"
I feel that another big problem about infantilization is that people treat teens like children, adults keep saying that teens are kids, that they're little children and most teens DO believe that they're little kids!!! They're NOT kids, they're NOT adults, they're teens!!! Why do people want to ignore the fact that teenagers exist? Treating someone as a kid and all of a sudden treating them as adults without any smooth transition is horrible, it doesn't give the person any time to addapt and gradually change from kids to adults. They need guidance of course, but they can handle more responsibilities, they start having different interests, they have their sexual awakening (and no people, just recognizing that a 15 year old can feel any sexual stuff isn't pdphilia) and they start to become adults and we NEED to recognize that! Because by treating them as little kids only make them easy prey for any sicko who's into teens, they need to be treated with more respect and as they grow they need to be treated more and more adult-like and not, treating them as adults doesn't mean looking at them in a sexual way (idk why most people on the internet inmediately think of sex when this subject is brought up), give them more responsibilities and trusting them a bit more, they will make mistakes but it's normal, i feel that people that treat teens as kids are preventing them from making mistakes and learning how to be functional adults...
I was a victim of that, i was overprotected by my parents and also treated as a kid when i was a teenager, i wanted to be taken seriously but no adult would ever take me seriously because all of them treated me as a kid and not recognize i was a teen... That led me to become victim of a predator... This guy was in his 20's (i was 14 at that time) and actually treated me as an equal, that made me feel like an actual teen, almost like an adult and of course he used the "you're too mature for your age" bullsh*t, i was fascinated by the fact that someone was treating me as a teen and well... This happened back in 2009, he sexually abused me and asked me to be his girlfriend afterwards, i said yes because back then if anyone knew what he did to me or if he said anything of what happened, I would be sl+tshamed and treated as if i had let it happen... To everyone i was just a child but if anything sexual happened then i could be judged as if i was an adult doing a bad thing. I grew up and when i was 19 i dumped this creep and it took YEARS for me to realize i was abused and infantilized. It felt horrible... That's why i'm sooo against of people treating teens as kids, they may look even younger and yes, they are young but they're NOT kids!!! Treating them as such makes them easy prey! And also, as someone who has being infantilized her whole life, now i'm 28 and don't know how to do ANY BASIC ADULT ACTIVITY, idk how to use the washing machine, idk how to pay taxes, idk how the paying for services work and all of a sudden people are expecting me to act like a fully grown woman...
When people are infantilized especially since they're teens, they grow to become adults with a lot of problems, some of them grow up and become addicts, some others (like me) don't know how to "adult" properly and we have to learn from scratch, some others try to fit in and fail miserably affecting their mental health and they end up being really hard on themselves and some others just want to still be treated as children and become "useless". It's not just a Gen Z crisis... Some of us late Millennials have suffered from this. This really needs to stop.
I've argued with someone on tiktok over a 13 years old having a display name joking about r34, started going on a full rant about how its inappropriate, how 13 is "still a kid"
Like my g, thats a whole teenager, teenagers knows what sex is and laughs about it
I learned about sex when I was 6. My primary/elementary school started basic sex ed when we were 10. While yes, myself learning about sex stuff at 6 IS too young in my opinion, it's just how the world works. Anybody with access to internet has free reign to learn just about anything. All it takes is a slip-up from an older kid or teenager, and a couple google searches, for a 6 yo to learn about basically anything regarding sex.
It's not even just likely that a 13 yo will know about sex, it's essentially inevitable regardless of formal education. Many 13 years old (first years) back when I was in high school had already had multiple relationships, and quite a few of them had already had sex.
@@V6HAVOC It IS innapropriate though, looking at porn at 13 years old is NOT good for you. Early exposure to porn fucked a lot of our generation up.
@@Cute___E just because someone makes sex jokes doesn't mean they watch porn lol? I laugh at them all the time, doesn't mean i watch it.
@@V6HAVOC It wasn't just a sex joke though, it was a joke about a porn website - a website you're generally gonna know about via exposure to it - and exposure to porn at that age is a bad idea.
I’m glad you brought it back around to the dehumanization of children, because that’s what underlies the entire cultural process of infantilization in the first place, and what gives infantilization its meanings in culture. The oppression of children one of the most overlooked issues in U.S. society. My dad always said you can learn a lot about a culture by how it treats it’s children. And we as kids are forced to learn a certain way, forced to perform to certain expectations, forced to suppress and ignore our natural inclinations and needs, and given no platform for autonomy in the world that controls us. So it’s no wonder many of us seek to comfort our inner child when we are grown. This is why children and teens are so effective as activists, because by the time we grow up the determination is starved out of us, and we are tired and burned out. We need youth liberation for effective progress.
So well said! Children (like other marginalized groups) often have some of the sharpest insights into the unfairness and arbitrariness of societal rules and structures etc, but are dismissed by adults because "they're just kids" and the adults are too afraid to question... what if the kids are actually right??
This is why I always listen and acknowledge and agree with my siblings (10+ years younger than me) when they point out some of the ridiculous shit they are forced to do in school for example. Cos they're right, it is unfair and I don't want them to grow up thinking that their genuine criticisms are just "immature kids complaining about shit".
i highly recommend the video “Why We Won’t Raise Our Kids In A Suburbia” by Not Just Bikes. it talks about how U.S and Canadian children are given no autonomy whatsoever and from the perspective of an European, this video was shocking for me cause I had no idea the problem was this bad. Here in Poland (but that goes for most of europe as well) it’s normal to see kids walk to school on their own, play together without their parents supervision etc, now I know that due to america’s shitty car dependent design most of this is impossible, but it’s still really eye opening
"Based on how they treat their children"
Huh, never thought about it that way
As a teacher (albeit not from the USA), amen to that
I agree to everything you said to the upmost. Depending on when you read this, I may have already commented on yr only video, but the thing I wanted to ask is this: If youth liberation is required for effective progress, how may it be reached? This is a question I've struggled with for the longest, and the closest thing I've come up with is to support teachers. Teachers report students and get them abused - teachers continue the path of hell in the youths lives, to put it lightly, and therefore, a teachers' liberation per se is required - give dual powered/mutual aid support to them, help them understand how society risks youths being literally SAed due to how we treat them. Bring them to the understanding, and help them act on it.
I’m ace and when I tell people they have a tendency to treat me differently. Like I’m “too innocent” to understand dirty jokes or have conversations regarding sex. When I spoke up about being pro choice my classmates were shocked because “well it shouldn’t effect you right?” As If ace people were immune from being r***d. (I’m sex repulsed and voluntarily celibate but plenty of ace people aren’t). I’m a grown woman. I shouldn’t be treated differently because of my orientation.
As an ace I have the worst sex jokes and out outdone the most perverted of my rp partners . Sex does not make you mature or innocent like have people not met dead beat fathers they had sex and are still rather immature
I know right? Watch any reality tv dating show and you’ll see plenty of immature horndogs. Why can the reverse be true?
@@elenas3571 ugh short answer Christianity long answer sex is used a a spectrum of how someone would be perceive and treated this also tired into racial discrimination, bodies and gender which works for the patriarchy but no one else
Yes so true!!!!!!! I'm so sick of it. People really do treat u different and purposely exclude u from conversations involving sex, like my lil brain would shatter if I was exposed to anything 'adult'. It's been happening my whole life. Same thing happened back in highschool because I wasn't the type to swear. People treated me like I was a five year old girl in a white dress and lil ribbons in her hair. I'm 22 now and it's the same shit!
@@annarichard7359 I literally had my boss tell me she has more respect for a 16 who was fucking a 21 year old when I explained my asexuality and I told her I couldn't respect someone who put so much onus on genital smashing and not intelligence. My hours were magic cut the following week
I’m a 35 year old woman on the autism spectrum, and it’s really embarrassing for my parents to infantilize me in public. Like yeah, I have my eccentric quirks, but that’s not a good reason to treat me like that. I’m actually capable of a lot more than I look. My autism doesn’t define me, I define myself. Take a moment to let that sink in.
I like how you put multiple spaces between sentences. ^^
That's something I do too, and it's nice to notice it in your comment. I'm also on the autism spectrum, and if it was a distinct diagnosis today, I'd be diagnosed with asperger's syndrome.
Anyways, I suppose I'm just writing a reply to you because I relate to you, and I want to send a reply now that it's been half a year since you commented this. I want to remind you that you have the power to define yourself, and you don't have to fit into boxes and definitions and every expectation.
As someone who advocates for adults to enjoy "childish" things and did a masters project and research on it: a lot of it stems from trauma, from growing up too fast.
I was sent off to a boarding school at age 12 for 5 years, then, brough back home and had to act as a 3rd parent, since my dad was hard at work most of the week. I had to do it until I was 21.
Only after I moved out I found the safe space to be a "child". I can rewatch the same cartoon over and over, I collect dolls, especially the ones that were given away due to me being "grown up" at 12 (!!!). I enjoy being childish and bright.
None of the girls in my boarding school had a chance at childhood. You dont stay a child in environments like that. You physically are one but not mentally. Same with a lot of 1st born daughers of a large family.
I think there is a fine line between childhood fetishism and truly healing your inner child
Children love me because I don’t treat them like children. I treat them like gonna-be adults. I’m not the same person as I am with adults, but I don’t coddle them or baby-talk them. I just speak with them.
They adore me because of this
So they like you because you treat them like people?
I do the same thing. Come think of it, I've noticed that I've always gotten along with children pretty well, and I never really knew why, and as I got older, I realized that it's because I don't treat kids like they're stupid all the time, and I try to be as respectful as I can. How I act or talk around people my own age is pretty much how I act around kids, except I'm not going to swear around kids or say anything crazy inappropriate (then again, I hardly really swear in general).
Fr
I appreciate my mother because that how she raised us. I can't remember ever being baby-talked by anyone and with the exception of my father's house, I was able to make my own good and bad decisions (with plenty of advice along the way)
this is so true. i learnt this when i got into a volunteer program. I could talk with the kids about my boring research administration and they followed it just fine. except when they need to actually study, there goes their attention span 😂
I can only really speak for myself but I feel like a lot of us are in a place where we don’t really know what we are supposed to do to succeed. Everything feels so incredibly complicated and overwhelming. I want to put the work in to being successful but I feel like no matter how hard I work or try, I’m just kinda stuck.
And also about like not matter how hard you worked it’s no guarantee you’ll succeed too😭😭
Find a quest to push yourself toward further than you ever thought you could go, something that scares you.
Don't work "harder", work _further,_ go to the deep-end where your feet can't quite touch the bottom.
Older cultures had rites of passage where you go out into the wilderness, and they were onto something.
We don't have an immaturity problem, we have a lack-of-adversity and comfort problem.
When you send a farm pig out into the wilderness, they grow tusks and hair like a boar because they need it.
im especially having that problem right now, having much difficulty trying to find a high paying job so i can move out and become independent.
Not to mention that taking risks, being overly ambitious, or sacrificing doing work to go to school (or doing both) are "guaranteed ways for success"..... Until they aren't and you'll be left feeling stupid by those around you (who were pushing you to do those things, for you not to be stagnant) for taking actions that you weren't able to do.
It's just a lose lose situation
@@Venom3254 and there's so much contradicting advice everywhere and we just have to take a gamble to assume we've adopted the right philosophy for success, out of like a billion different ones being pushed on us even on just youtube alone. like what pill am i supposed to take? i thought taking pills is bad? no yes? maybe? yes again? no wonder gen z is fucked in the head and confused. nothing is adding up thats why we juul and make weird music bro just vibe whatever
Did anyone else find the zoom meeting discussion (23:40)to be dismissive/infantilizing within itself towards consuming “childish” media (also I did not miss the fact that they mainly discussed animation during this portion)? Why is it that something like powerpuff girls, an animated show aimed toward kids, is assumed to lack craftsmanship and worth of watching within itself just because it isn’t “deep” or it's "easy media" (a term that wasn't really defined, along with "childish media" so I am left to assume what they encompass). Some people, particularly those interested in the medium OF the media they consume, just enjoy that type of thing (not just because they are nurturing their inner child or need comfort)- sometimes it’s even their job, the animation industry is mostly run by adults after all. I think it was a bit restrictive to assume people consume media for a singular purpose, I guess… Sometimes what you get from shows is what you put into it. They become important to us because in watching and experiencing, we bring in a part of ourselves. It was just strange to hear all this analysis and deep dive into WHY we infantilize/pointing it out in our society only for the conclusion section to put personal actions and preferences into that category, diminishing their worth into “comfort” and “nurturing your inner child”, particularly when liking “childish” things like “cartoons” is a trait associated with the neurodivergent community. Idk, the ending section just felt like outsiders looking in, the way things like "I can excuse x, because y" and "Yeah consume media for the sake of comfort, but be careful, don't do it too much!" were said made me question who that discussion was aimed at. The people infantilizing themselves on purpose? Or the ones you've deemed to be participating in infantilization because their interest lay outside the cultural norm?
Also the fact that this video made me type out a whole mini essay means it's doing its job! Hell yeah, I love things that spark conversation.
Felt the same way, but I'll need to rewatch the whole video to make sure I'm not judging it in bad faith. But my first impression is this: you can consume your fave media, but we'll explain to you how you should consume your "easy" media (whatever that means), so you won't hurt yourself in your self-infanitization shenanigans!
But maybe I'm too harsh (I hope I'm too harsh). 😅
Edit: I think I agree with the premise (the world doesn't end on the things you consume, socializing is important, challenge yourself) but I still think it could be worded better.
@@CC3GROUNDZERO subjective & depends on what anime we are talking about. alot of it is varied just like any popular form of art like films, music or videogames. some shows have a deep message or theme which i consider as "art" = good. others like kiddy battle shounens or harem/ecchi anime are just mindless capitalist fanservice/entertainment products.
@@CC3GROUNDZEROcommenting the same thing over and over again can't be much better lmao
"The animation industry is mostly run by adults after all" Yeah because I don't think you're going to employ 7 year olds for your own company or establishment.
it's not that us women CAN'T do the 40 hour work week, it's that we don't want to. And we're leaning into the century old sexism as a joke.
discrediting decades of women fighting for their autonomy and rights, losing their lives for the future generations of women to live in a better world isn't exactly funny. and it will never be funny.
@@glorifieddustcollector no one is discrediting it. we're laughing at the fact it still exists. Ever heard of sarcasm? it's like that.
I don't think anyone should be working 40 hours a week to even cover life expenses at a minimum. I enjoy working part-time, but everytime I was allowed to work full-time during university holidays, it absolutely destroyed me (especially since I was working in field-ag, which is basically construction work but you're both setting up greenhouses AND lifting like thousands of plant stocks, usually by hand, which happen to be full grown trees, just because upper mgmt refuses to certify you on a forklift).
Anyways, its mostly a systemic issue of cost-of-living requiring full-time work (and normalizing requiring it), and not all full-time work can even cover those costs.
@@megasocky we shouldn't be working 40 hours a week, but neither should men. No one should be working for a third of their life.
@@glorifieddustcollector I think what they meant was that women fought to be able to work, but work does not mean being exploited. 40 hour work week benefits companies, NOT women( or men).
I’m a 22 year old woman. I feel like I have been both infantilized by the people around me and infantilizing myself subconsciously. This video has been very insightful.
As a young woman myself (18), I can absolutely relate to subconsciously infantalizing one's self. Sometimes I even find it difficult to call myself a "woman" or an "adult." I could blame my homeschooling or my parents for not allowing me to have many maturing experiences (something as simple as going out with friends they hadn't met was forbidden), but that takes away accountability from me. Looking at myself, my own infantalization of myself is a sort of protective shield- if I'm still a "child," I need to be taken care of and protected (which I am fully aware is something I need to work on).
Most women in their 20s are infantile.
❤❤
@@brookealexandra34 wow that's a really insightful way to put it. I just turned 25 and I have been infantilizing myself as well, and it comes with inexperience of "adult" things, like adult relationships, responsibilities, etc. Plus I still mentally feel like I'm 18, and it's very weird, but I agree-there are lots of selfish 'benefits' to infantilization; you don't have to make big important decisions, you get to be taken care of and protected, and you even can encourage romantic partners to do those things for you. it's very eye opening for sure!
When I was 22 I wanted to be a cool competent adult so bad. Now I'm 32 and LMAO... I'm ok with deferring responsibility to save my sanity and just relaxing instead of hustling overly hard, but wrestle with wanting to grow up a little more and gain more freedom or "adult power".
It is extremly damaging to a whole creative industry and ironically infantlaizing a large demographic of people to keep up this mentality that cartoons are just for children. You can tell extremely mature, gripping , and gut-wrenching narratives with animated media ( ie. Presepolis, Unicorn wars, Brirdboy: and the forgotten children to name a few).
Also with video games. Not sure playing video games is synonymous with infantilization. It’s simply an artistic medium. The rest of the video has great points but bringing up and playing video games and enjoying animation are not great points to bring up in the conversation of infantilization. Is one supposed to stop enjoying sports after a certain age? I think Elliot needs to explore his ideas about age related media a bit more.
@@Investigator86 Whenever people say that cartoons or videogames are just for children I just point them to films like "Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse" or games like "Frostpunk".
@@shroomer3867hen people say cartoons are for kids you should bring up Bojack Horseman as well, a masterpiece in adult animation
Avatar the Last Airbender. Adventure Time.
@@Investigator86 Some of my favorite narratives of all time come directly from videogames. It's funny, I'm kinda like an anti-gamer in a way. I love story oriented games more than purely gameplay focused games.
Videogame narratives just hit different when they're done right. Some examples of games like this include Omori, Doki Doki Literature Club, Hollow Knight, Undertale, etc. These stories are fucking incredible and they genuinely had me in tears. Videogames are able to move you in such a personal and intense way, so it genuinely sucks that they don't really get respected as genuine art. Hollow Knight and Omori specifically deserve to be in art museums, that's how good they are.
this is an endlessly fascinating topic! I'm 21 and I'm noticing more and more that my friends refer to themselves as “teens” or “just a girl”, etc. I think the whole pandemic situation (lockdown, online school and whatnot) contributed to this idea that we're somehow stuck in time or that we are mentally younger than our actual age. A lot of my friends refuse to think about the future, which is their own problem. However, they also refuse to read the news or study history or engage in politics - which is ultimately a problem that affects everyone.
Thank you for such an insightful video
yep, I feel like a very unexperienced kid at 17 cuz of the pandemic and online school, I doubt I'll feel like a fully fledged adult at 20
@@iiCounted-op5jx20 year old here, I don’t feel grown up at all. I still feel mentally 17
I also feel mentally 'stuck'. I don't feel like I'm ready to be an adult. I feel younger then I am. The pandemic - the time - it just felt like time was so fluid, you know? It doesn't feel real.
@@iiCounted-op5jx To be fair, 18-21 is commonly included in late adolescence. Not that they should be treated as children but in terms of development, they aren't fully adults yet.
@@rawr1131hell now they’re saying that adolescence lasts out to 29.
3:30 Everyone needs to work hard, but the work shouldn't be soul-crushing. Whenever I hear of work schedules, I'm reminded of early colonization of Hawai'i. The indigenous Hawai'ians were up before dawn and done with all their work by 11 AM and were out surfing by noon. The European/American settlers saw them as "lazy" because they only worked "half" the day the colonizers did. When in reality they just had a bit of an offset schedule. If you wake up at ~4AM, and start work either instantly or within about 30 minutes, and are done by 11, that's 7 hours of wake time between getting up and being done with work. Juxtaposed with the common 9-11 hours, it's strange to see how this all unfolded and the European settlers made the Hawai'ians conform to their ideas of what a normal "work day" was supposed to look like, instead of just having tasks done as the island people did them.
i remember starkly walking into my local womens center and outside a woman was like lecturing her kid and she litterally said 'your a child, you dont have any rights !' bro the kid was balling too. idk the circumstances but i think thats a really telling thing to say regardless. And in public too
for anyone who witnesses shitty moms out in the wild; call that shit out. It isnt a crime to check another adult for mistreating a child. A child getting chewed out in public would probably feel so much better knowing someone out there is willing to stand up for them.
@@piroshk1968i once sat on a train next to a woman who spent a good 15 minutes chewing out her kid over the phone over some bullshit in a tone that would make a grown man cry and then she ended the call by saying she's going to beat the kid for crying when she gets home. I was this close for calling her out for the pathetic piece of shit she was being but then decided that would probably only make it worse for the kid later so I just got off four stations early and waited for another train to stop myself from knocking her teeth in
I hate these kind of adults! I remember one time I was walking my dog on the park and saw this couple with a boy on a field, and the dad was teaching the kid to play soccer. But he would say things like "oh come on! That's not the right way! *to his wife * Honey! Are you filming? Film this! *back to the kid * Look! She's filming now! She's gonna post this on social media! Don't fail! Everyone's gonna laugh at you! So don't mess up!"
He would constantly remind the kid he was on the spotlight, like, constantly. I can only assume the dad was projecting some sort of trauma himself...
Like, wow, what a way to traumatize a child huh. He would be aggressive and loud if the kid failed too, and when he did good it would be almost no praise. And the mom was in on it as well, just sitting and watching.
I hope this kid does well for himself somehow...
Oooooh isn't that relateble. I can totally see how the child remembers that interaction for ever and it would come up in therapy years later (assuming they would get to therapy, hopefully), and the parent would be like "i never said that!!"
@@piroshk1968this is a good comment but also be careful. Some people are so authoritarian that if they catch you trying to defend their feelingless "property" (the child) that they'll get violent with you as well. Not to mention how people are willing to mistreat other ppls kids and will get on your ass if you're not mean to them. So pls defend them but also be careful/ready for anything, ppl are weird
Elder Gen Xer here, I think play itself is human. One can be childlike without being childish. I have a disability, and accepting that means unlearning some unhelpful habits I had picked up because others were scared to let me fail and wanted to protect my feelings. Being an adult shouldn't mean you forget to play, be silly, or do 'useless' things.
Young people today deserve credit for having to grow up with their life on social media!
Exactly. Part of why so many of us fear growing up is due to the heavy stigma surrounding just having fun; we simultaneously paint our teen and young adult years as the best part of our lives, while actively shaming other adults for trying to take life easy. Like hmmm, I sure wonder why it's so easy to romanticize those younger years when we're allowed to not take ourselves seriously and simply just learn and grow. Maturity should be about emotional regulation- not about arbitrary taste and hobbies (and this is coming from and early 20 something; it's beyond easy to fear getting older when this stigma is everywhere. I'm trying to work on not caring, but it's difficult)
@@MariaSantos-uo3pbam i not allowed to have hobbies now?
@@MariaSantos-uo3pb EXACTLYY
Exactly. I love video games but some people are snobby about adults playing them. Some think adults should just work, eat and sleep and if they have hobbies they should be 'mature' and 'approved' ones
play is literally just human nature
I didn’t realize how much I needed this video.
So I have ADHD. For months I’ve been falling into a pit just trying to convince myself I’m a human because no one treats me like I’m a human on their level. My friends treat me like I’m incapable of being responsible, men don’t look at me like an option.
I’m a person, I’m person with struggles, with responsibility. I live despite hating doing stupid shit society forces me to. I feed my pet regularly without help. I pay for my own gas.
But I’m a child because I don’t want to be miserable. I don’t want to be serious when I don’t have to be. I’m a child because I refuse to be dull, because I dare enjoy stuff that isn’t ‘typically mature’
When I do stupid shit I do it with the consequences in mind. I’ve decided the result out ways the consequences, I don’t just do stupid shit with no regard. I do stupid shit while being constantly aware of my surroundings to avoid hurting people in the process to the best of my ability and if I do bother someone I will TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for my actions and APOLOGIZE like a level headed adult.
It’s literally a stereotype that men do stupid shit constantly but when I do it suddenly I lose the respect of the people around me.
It’s so frustrating. IM A PERSON!!!! I’m not a pet, I’m not a toddler, IM A PERSON.
I am noting what I’ve observed about how society and even parents treat children.
For context, my parents brought me with to an adult party. The adults hosting the party had a 5 and 6 year old. Other adults attended the party and also brought their children. Most of the kids were around the age range of 4-7, along with a 9, 10, and 12 year-old. I, a teen at the time, played with them all and acted as the older sibling to the kids during the party.
I have been doing my own research on parenting styles and their impact, so I treated the kids seriously and with respect. Eventually a few minor conflicts came up: one being about why we couldn’t play Among Us irl (the answer being the other kids did not have the attention span and it would be challenging for the younger kids to follow the rules for). I had a one-on-one conversation with one of the 5 year-olds and I was taken a back by the depth he was able to understand the topic, it was far more than I expected. We talked about child brain development and he asked further questions with great interest. The kid understood and we played a simpler game.
I realized from that conversation and during play how capable these kids were. Yet when adults came by they babied the kids with infantalizing remarks and with ridiculous commands. The parents lacked patience in helping the kids understand why the rules are there on top of the rules themselves being vague (also the adults were hypocritical so that did not help the kids understand any better). The parents were more immature than the youngest of the kids were during minor conflicts. I should’ve said something but I was in no mood to get in trouble for ‘talking back’.
In one incident, a kid accidentally knocked one of the youngest kids with a toy. Which was a mess because one of the adults came in and had a huge reaction despiste the situation being rather minor. Anyway, the kid who was hit I helped calm down and he cuddled up with me for the rest of the party (for further context, we were instructed to only play in that room and the same adult put on a movie after all of that). When I had to go home, the kid started crying because he grew attached to me. He was distressed by the idea of me leaving. I did my best to comfort him and reassure him we’ll meet again while the adults, most being parents, were laughing at him. To them his distress wasn’t real and just a show. The kid and I were really uncomfortable.
The adults, including my parents, then proceeded to compliment me on my ability to get along with the kids and how mature I was. The adults acted like I performed magic. Being an effective caregiver for children is not magic. It is hard work. I did some research on how to best communicate with children and take care of them emotionally. That is something I know the other parents and adults have not done.
In conclusion, children are more often than not treated like pets instead of people. Children are constantly dismissed by adults who do not care to understand them and do not bother effectively teaching them about the world.
I believe all these problems tie back to an overlooked expectation of parenthood: having a child is not the same as raising one.
Well, I tried to "adult" so hard that I crashed at 36 and never had the desire to join the rat race again. I got a late diagnosis of autism and everything made suddenly sense. For me, being an adult is precisely STOP to do things to please others in detriment of my own health and safety. I took care of my executive disfunction by taking a curator to deal with my bills and payment, so nothing is ever overdue again. Admitting your own shortcomings is also acting mature.
I may look very carefree and live with very little responsibilities , but it was all carefully curated by myself out of respect for what I can and can't do.
So called "adults" are all suffering from a giant case of Stockholm syndrome, exhausting themselves and pretending to like it. And they lie to kids, so kids hurry up to grow up, only to find there is nothing great to gain from it , only work they hate, chores that never ends and misery. Their best years are behind them and they wasted them wanting to be adults fast. No wonder nostalgia is trending, it's just the first stage of awakening... Opting out is the most brave thing to do. Work, yes, but don't let anyone overwork you. Never work a job you hate. Life is short, don't forget to enjoy it.
what do you mean “curator for bills”? i’m curious and also trying to deal with executive dysfunction
@@ceruleumtesserite866I also am interested in that!
@@ceruleumtesserite866, I live in Switzerland. And there, once you are on disability you can ask for accommodations to help you, like nurse if you have major issues with mental or physical health, or cleaning your place . I asked for a curator to deal with tasks like bills, taxes and everything administrative. Some socialist lawyers do this and are paid by the state.
I am time - blind, so that service is really valuable. It is hard to cope with no notion of the passage of time, like it's the same day repeating itself over and over. Calendars can only help keeping on track with the world, but not for any deadline.
I'm glad to be Swiss, we have universal healthcare, and no disabled person is forced to perform over their capacities. I heard Germany and Northern Europe countries have similar programs.
I don't know about the UK, and I know that the US is one of the worst places to be disabled in (unless you are rich...). Is it true that they have to pay for the ambulance? 😳
Good luck to all fellow autistic or disabled people there, maybe you have charities who can offer help? It's worth looking for it if you live there. ❤️
@@Johnny_T779 > Is it true that they have to pay for the ambulance? 😳
Yes, and it's not cheap. It is multiple thousands of dollars. For an emergency car ride.
Damn. You said this perfectly. Stockholm syndrome, hostage to the standard culture around us without questioning why things are this way and imagining something different. I am often disturbed with how many people seem so detached and basically numb to "normal". If the sense of safety and independence provided by the way we live in today is just facile, I ask myself how can so many people not sense that? The most powerful people who gain and hoard the most from society's structure benefit from force feeding us values and rules and calling it patriotism or holiness. It keeps us docile and striving for aspirations that have nothing to do with what we want in our souls and instead contain us as cogs in the machine. The state of delusion that things are and have always been exactly as they should be is a protective mechanism against the cruel mental burden of being awake to the truth of the stratification, prejudice, and exploitation that constitute our economic and political structure. Investment in this gigantic lie is what holds us back from yearning and fighting for more. It's killing our bodies, our compassion, and our dreams.
The question of "do we treat children as humans" is one that I never really see people bring up. I never forgot how frustrating it was for me to be treated as a borderline helpless animal as a child so as I've gotten older I've made a conscious effort to try and actually talk to kids on their level. As a teenager I worked at a horse riding stables for a summer, and the other employees hated dealing with the group of older kids (10-11 year olds) because they felt like they were less cooperative and too snippy, but they never gave me trouble because I was never condescending to them. I just talked to them like they were people and they were willing to cooperate way more just from me being more understanding and not talking down to them.
They didn't hate riding horses or doing activities they hated being treated like they were at a daycare.
If you treat someone like shit then they probably aren't going to very cooperative with you. Seems pretty obvious and we all understand that's true for adults, yet somehow we expect children to be mindless obediant robots.
I remember all the time hearing from teachers that in order to be treated with respect you have to give respect, and I always thought "well you've never treated us with respect so why are you surprised you're not getting any respect back?"
Of course I didn't say that as I knew I'd just be punished for it becuase I wasn't expected to have my own opinions.
THIS! People seem to forget there's no magic border between 'child' and 'adult' where one day you're suddenly a grown up and everything that happened before that is totally irrelevant. I can say I don't feel I was treated with that much respect as a kid. Even at age 38-39 my adoptive mum was trying to police my behaviour, and I'm not someone others would label as rebellious, rude or anything like that, so why?
As a mother of a Gen Z, I would say they’re the most mature person I’ve encountered. I also have a millennial. My youngest is more mature than my millennial. Both aren’t that much different technically, as in growing up in the technology and digital day but what I’ve noticed is Gen Z are more aware of the world problems and it’s diversity, and are more compassionate and empathetic.
It’s just a shame the economy is messed up globally. I find my Gen Z advice is sound, rational and they have helped me out with my problems, in fact we help each other out. They can handle problems themselves with immense maturity and they are my go to person for solid advice. So I would say they have helped me out the most than any other. Why people treat them like they are babies I’ve no idea!
How do you define ‘maturity’ though? curious😅
As someone who is 30 but looks 12-14ish (childhood cancer treatment messed up puberty growth), I absolutely have been infantilized my whole life, even by my family. I've had my ID taken to be checked by a manager multiple times, I've been ignored/treated rudely by staff or gotten "why is this kid here looks". If stand up for myself for whatever reason, people look at me like I'm some precocious kid that is being a nuisance. It drives me insane because I can't even go grocery shopping without some weird interaction happening. I remember when I was a kid and looked forward to being taken seriously as an adult...which never happened. So yeah, treat kids and anyone who seems young with basic respect please.
So cancer makes you forever young, got it
brutal
I'm an asexual person with autism and people who know this sometimes treat me like I'm the purest, most innocent creature to grace the planet. They think my interest in animation is cool, until I tell them I like South Park or Futurama. Then they say how they'd never expect that from me. When I make (or sometimes just understand) sex jokes they're surprised every time. And don't get me started on how they react to my love of horror in general. However, they also act like the fact I draw cartoons is the cutest thing ever, even when I weave adult themes into them.
Not just that, but my parents don't see me as an adult either. Every time I try to help with housework, pay for something, or just be generally independent they say say, "Don't worry, we do it ourselves!" I'm 24 years old and I'm still treated like a child. I want to help, I want to be independent, I want to *feel* like an adult. It's infuriating and exhausting.
I deal with similar treatment form my parents and it’s really frustrating. I feel like my potential is being stifled because I’m never given the chance to even try to contribute or do things for myself.
Futurama I'd amazing! Also I find myself in a position similar to yours (I'm ADHD) and even when my parents have given me some "freedom" I still feel to a certain level that they're (mostly mom) are overprotective and don't want to get my feelings hurt, but then it's "you know life's that, and we need to lear" there no middle point, so it's trying to build on shifting sand
That is ridiculous and insane. You need to keep on speaking up and being independent and don't let people degrade you.
@@AWlpsSHOW36It’s not ridiculous and insane. Adulthood isn’t an intrinsic attribute given to you. It’s something you earn.
It used to be common knowledge that staying with your parents will get you treated as a child. And if you want to break away front that, you’ll need to actually go out and be independent. Autonomy and adulthood is something you give to yourself and if you’re waiting around for someone else to validate you… then you’re still a child.
That’s the truth.
@@EggEnjoyer
Wow. This is the most stupidest and degrading comment I’ve ever seen. Are you kidding me? What the hell is wrong with you?
You become an adult when you turn 20 to 21. THAT is the truth. That is the biological and developmental fact. Not your pathetic and patronising worldview.
Independence doesn’t just mean leaving the nest. Independence genuine means you can do things for yourself and don’t need assistance anymore and you can be independence at any age.
Besides where about were we talking about staying at your parents house here? Never. So if we are on that topic then I will mention it. You don’t know people’s circumstances to be living with their parents. In many cultures, like Indian, it’s the societal expectation to stay home and take care of your aging parents. Taking care and looking after them like how they did with you as a child. Now how the hell is that not independent and childlike?
Please be more mindful and respectful of people’s living status and get out of your ignorant mindset.
As someone who's into animation, one piece of criticism I have for this video essay is that partaking in hobbies mainly aimed at kids is not inherently childish. Rather, it's about how you engage with those things.
A kid might just see haha funny and pretty and subconsciously internalize messages, teens might be hyperfixated on the romance, among other themes, and adults inherently watching something as "junk food media" is a form of self-care in moderation.
Also, a lot of children's media has complex themes that only older audiences can pick up on (which as a reply pointed out, means that it ISN'T ALWAYS junk food). Thinking critically about the media we consume, even about what we think is flawless is definitely what I would consider a form of maturity. Also, animation is art, and anyone can appreciate beautiful art. I can't draw at all, but as a writer, I'm inspired by and learn a lot from the storytelling both written and visual in animated TV and film. But also anyone can appreciate beauty.
So I don't completely agree with the rationale in this video regarding engaging with "kiddish" hobbies, or at least I don't think it was explained all that well. But other than that, this video essay has been phenomenal.
Yeah, I felt this way too. It just made me feel, ironically, infantalized.
I’m glad someone said this!The idea that cartoons and cute designs are just for kids is just something we as humans made up. There is no factual way to prove these things are “for kids” where do you even blur the line? My boyfriend and I play warhammer, a strategy war tabletop game where you move little plastic figures around and shoot at each other. I mostly only see adults playing this but when you think about it it’s not really different from a kid playing with their actions figures. The only reason we see one as for adult and the other for kids is because of arbitrary rules we’ve made up about what people should be allowed to enjoy.
I think perspective will change with time though. Video games used to be seen as childish and now they’re seen as for people of all ages.
@@nopeitsmxsame here lol
@@Minecraftathopidk if you know this but Henry Cavill plays Warhammer. So if anyone criticizes you for playing the game, fucking Superman plays it lmao.
Animation can be far from “junk food” though it’s more akin to beautifully constructed meal.
Live action however, often has “junk food” media pieces (like a lot of Netflix originals btw).
25:01 "Challenge yourself." Ugh. I agree with a lot of the things you said in this video, but also... toxic hustle culture and the exploitation of the working class.
We are an overworked, underpaid group in search of escapism, using utopia as the both the dream of a better life and the fuel for creating a better life, and rest IS productive. Why should I "challenge myself" during my rest? I do think that there are lots of benefits to watching challenging and interesting media, but it also okay for rest to just be rest, it doesn't have to be intellectually productive. Rest isn't about production, and if you have a mentally taxing job, sometimes you just need a break to watch something easy before you can pursue your more intellectually stimulating side-interests.
But... joy isn't infantilizing. Rest isn't infantilizing. It is 100% fine for a person to enjoy video games or shows for children. It is 100% okay for a person to do things that bring them peace, even if they aren't things made for adults.
In my country we have a proverb that says 'children and fish have no voice'. I think it clearly shows how society percives children
@@trinitylovesyou6868wohooo
POLSKA GÓRĄ 🇮🇩⛰️
Oh my god... CHILDREN ARE FISH CONFIRMED!?
Children are impulsive, inexperienced, and actually quite weird. Your culture has the correct view of children, they are to be trained, taught and socialised and their contributions of value are when they progress in these things
True, I don't see a scenario where letting literal children chime in on an important contemporary issue could be beneficial. @@JohnDoe-gc1pm
I think it's the other way around - we're so tired, burnt-out and value-less as adults, we seek infantile things to try to regain the false glamour of "no responsibilities"
i'm in my early twenties but have always felt behind in terms of my mental age, and while this always fails me when I try to do "adult" things (i.e college, socializing with other adults, working etc) it gave me an insight on how weirdly and, dare I say, inhumanely adults treat people who don't act like them, because i often get infantilized. i see how frustrated kids get when their needs aren't met because they "can't communicate"... aka, they don't communicate the way an adult expects them to, so they're chastised for crying or for shutting down. like, adults LOVE telling kids they're doing things wrong and then never explaining why. do the adults even know why it's wrong? what rules are we even following?
The brain doesn’t mature as fast that’s a fact
I infantilize myself on reflex, it's actually where a lot of my depression and anxiety come from.
I am autistic, but I was diagnosed in my teens. I was often called an "old soul" by my family and teachers, but I was also told I needed to grow up and be more mature. I was more mature then other kids but also at the same time not mature enough. Not successful enough. I was never allowed to be a child, but not properly shown how to be an adult. As someone with autism it's difficult for me to process information and learn, though if approached properly I can surpass others with ease. I need my hand held, to be shown by someone else first and then attempt it on my own. I often watch videos of someone doing something first. But if I do it right, I can manage fine.
After I was diagnosed people changed, I wasn't allowed to do anything by myself because I couldn't learn their way and I got more and more behind. I couldn't drive, I didn't even have a learners permit. Nobody let me get one. I didn't know how to do my taxes, I didn't know how to talk to strangers, I didn't even know how to set up a doctors appointment, and I wasn't allowed to hang out after school or go places on the weekend without the supervision of my mom or my best friend.
I moved out right out of highschool right before I turned 19. I couldn't take the smothering anymore. I met a guy I liked and did what other people my age were doing. My family went ballistic. We even got doxxed and had to file a police report against my mom because she was claiming I had been kidnapped and trying to get other people involved to bring me home. Two years later, when shit calmed down, I married him. My family didn't mind as much this time, but my friends went crazy. Everyone was trying to talk me out of it because I was "too young to make decisions like that" One friend even told me to my face she didn't trust me to make "adult" decisions. I'm 24 now and I've been married four years now, happily. I can do our taxes, I can make doctors appointments, and I'm learning to drive an old beetle that we own. But I still find myself treating myself this way, beating myself up constantly for "faking" being an adult. I hold myself to the same standards others still try to hold me to and it breaks me. I'm trying to break out of it, the more I learn the more it helps, but nothing will change how people treat me for being an autistic girl. Nothing will change the fact that few will hire me and the ones that do fire me for my autism. And if I can't work, I'm not worthy of being treated as a human.
As someone with mental illness I feel infantilized a lot because I don't have a job but I cook, self regulate, take care of the house, volunteer, and take care of my own body and appointments and such. I pretty much have a life besides financially. My family has always infantilized me and this became learned helplessness. It is hard to not define myself as a child as someone who can't work. But I do the best I can do. And that's all anyone can ask
"Learned helplessness" is a phrase that i needed to know, thank you
Another commenter said rather well that we equal being an adult with having a job. However, we don't treat non-working people with generational wealth the same as people who cannot work or work full time, for medical/mental health/disability reasons and that also says a lot.
This is definitely an issue my mum struggles with. She always feels like she's not contributing to the household when she's always has cleaned, cooked, taken care of us when sick. Her life is deemed lesser by capitalism because she doesn't earn money.
this me, i think my family infantalising me has led me to infantalise myself
@@thesevenkingswelove9554same (I'm also the youngest in my family so that worsened my infantalization)
due to circumstances beyond my control, i’ve always been labeled as “mature”. to top it all off, i’m the eldest daughter of three. to top that all off, i grew up as a black girl in texas. as a child, i had no choice but to grow up a lot faster than my peers and be “grown”. i recently just turned 20, and have been struggling conceptualizing the idea of “adulthood”. i feel like i’ve always been an adult, but now i’m actually an adult… like fr fr. i’m stuck between ‘allowing myself to give pieces of my childhood back to my younger self, parts that were robbed from her’ and ‘buckling down and tryna get my shit in order’. i wouldn’t say i infantilize myself, but i do notice whenever real life hits, i revert back childlike ways of coping. ex; whenever i get frustrated, i run straight to my partner. it’s difficult tryna navigate the transitory period between adolescence and adulthood, all while not having the best coping mechanisms. i don’t infantilize myself to the extremity’s of which you stated at the end, but i am trying to allow myself some space to heal some really wounded parts of my being.
i say that to say i throughly enjoyed this video, and i truly appreciate the perspective. looking forward to the rest of the series!
For me I was always kind of neglected. Not to the point if abuse, but I always ate dinner alone, and usally spent the weekend watching TV from what I remember. I got in trouble for asking to go outside, and was forced to go to school even when sick. I feel like when your mature as a child you want that opportunity back as an adult. You slowly revert to child like thinking as a way to cope with your past. I was always told I was "mature" as a kid (but I wasn't. I was actully very immature till 4th, throwing tantrums due to lack of attention at home due to a single parent who left me at after school care till 6, and other trauma) (Sorry for the long text)
Completely relate, as someone who was born afab and the eldest into a black southern household family will automatically make or form you into a caregiver and any other roles they see fit. Which in turn shields you from actually forming a childhood or even having those moments, like a genuine blockage. Even as Im turning older I still feel stuck between 16 and 40.
I can relate to this, I have severe childhood trauma so I don’t remember a lot of my life before 16. But from what I remember a lot of those years were running around and trying to be the therapist/mediator for everyone which would make me the “wise and mature” one despite struggling a lot . Sometimes it feels like your damed if you do or damed if u don’t
Have you tried to find out if you're neurodivergent or not?
Being expected to be mature with the definition of that being "not emotional" gives this complex of not being able to be sincere or raw around anyone. I was extremely taken back when a therapist asked why I thought showing emotion was immature, and how she had to explain that no, this is not actually the norm.
Honestly one of the reasons it's hard for me to be interested in A N Y T H I N G is because of the notion that "having childish hobbies is a bad thing because you're an adult and only should like adult things". I don't really watch anything or play any games at all, or really do anything because I'm so burnt out and have internalized that I shouldn't be doing things that make me happy or help me relax, because if I'm not productive all the time it's a bad thing, because adults are supposed to work a lot. I've been trying to unlearn that behavior, but I still spend hours every day just idling if I'm not being productive and hoping the burnout goes away on its own.
Also I just thought of this, but there is an unspoken rule that adults are N O T supposed to like things wholeheartedly and genuinely, it has to be ironic or hateful. You can only be into comedy that hurts others via stereotyping, or media where people get hurt. If you genuinely show enjoyment of things, especially things that aren't "normal" to be enjoyed by adults, you get laughed at and nobody wants to be around you.
It's like hey I'm horribly depressed because I can't bring myself to do things I like to but at least me working makes me not infantalized even if I'm not allowed to have interests.
To me it’s weird how our society views playing video games and watching cartoons as “nurturing your inner child” I do think a lot of times people go to those things with the intention of nurturing their inner child or basically fully aware that those things aren’t for adults but the problem is that I don’t think that’s necessarily the purpose of those things. video games can be incredibly complex and have deep lessons for all ages, even if it’s a game like idk Pokémon. we label things either for children or for adults when in reality lots of those things are for both. Also someone mentioned in the comments how media labeled for kids is made by adults and that also shows how we can watch cartoons as adults and enjoy as much or even more without having to do it as a “this is for my inner child”
I play cyberpunk to heal my inner child
Or maybe just move on to different things? I used to watch Special Agent Oso as a kid but you're not going to catch me watching that crap when I'm a grown adult now.
@@PeruvianPotato you're so much better than everyone else good job
I don't see any shame in enjoying cartoons or video games , if it's something that makes you happy then it's perfectly fine. I watch cartoons myself and that doesn't mean I'm healing My inner child I'm just enjoying something I like.
@@beetlegeuse1961 Gracias :)
This entire topic reminds me of how people on twitter use the label of "minor" as a way the abdicate all responsibility, even for teens as old as 17-18. (Even once saw someone unironically refer to themselves as a 20 years old minor.)
I mean to be fair, our prefrontal cortex (what controls reasoning and emotional regulation) quite literally isn't fully developed until your mid to late 20s, so that could be why they picked up the label. It's cringe and embarrassing nonetheless, but I do think it's important to note that legality isn't always indicative of biological or social realties
@@MariaSantos-uo3pbThe prefrontal cortex thing is a bit of a myth though. It's true that it keeps evolving and growing, but it's already developed enough in your 20' to act like a responsible adult. Just because it can grow more it doesn't mean than until you're 30 you're a child
@@kat4923 that’s not a myth at all, and I do think we should consider the implications of that (for example, severity in charges for young 20 somethings). Now do I think anyone under the age of 30 should have zero accountability? Of course not, but you’re taking a very myopic approach to this simply because it’s easier
@@kat4923 I’m wondering if you’re conflating the fact that the brain overall is plastic even beyond certain developmental benchmarks with the specific prefrontal cortex development bit. It’s not the same thing my guy; there is going to be a difference in maturity between a 24 year old vs a 30 year old in a way that wouldn’t be seen with said 30 year old and a 36 year old, specific experiences being controlled. That’s just the case
@@MariaSantos-uo3pb those differences in maturity are going to be a result of six years of life experiences, at least as much as - if not more than - any pfc development. You're drastically overvaluing pfc development.
Here's one time I witnessed blantant self-infantalization: One time at work, a customer (a white woman) freaked out about her order not being done correctly and went into a whole screaming litany that used VERY liberal use of the N-word against a black co-worker. After storming out, she came back in after a couple of minutes and "apologized" by insisting she was mentally ill. After she left the second time, I mentioned to another co-worker, "So... she would rather people think she's just crazy than racist...?"
I don't think that's self-infantalization. That just seems more like weaponizing mental illness.
white woman jumpscare
@@splitsee2526AAAIIAIAIAIAIAIDJNJAXIJXAIJAIJAIAISIAI
That behaviour fully makes sense to me and I actually would respect that woman for having the balls to go back in and apologize.
Everyone can fly off the handle and say shit they don't actually mean, but not everyone manages to go back on it later and own up to being better.
You put the apologized in quotation marks, but I feel like anyone who doesn't have a sincere feeling of guilt would simply not have gone back in.
@@Alice_Fumowhen i'm pissed I don't think about using slurs against the person i'm pissed at, unless she has tourettes I doubt she doesn't use the n-word on a semi-regular basis, that kinda language doesn't 'just pop out' cuz 'oops my mental illness lmao'. Being mentally ill doesn't mean you're allowed to be a deplorable human being
Literally, plankton's speech to spongebob. A matter of fact that entire movie is a reminder that once you become an adult you have to take accountability for your own actions, just like spongebob in the movie he even didn't mind dying if it meant he got to try his hardest. That's life. We endure Paths we don't enjoy taking in order to achieve goals we want to reach. It's beautiful storytelling of how to be an adult. I will never forget that movie
Wow that's deep
I feel like our internalized infantilization is a byproduct of generations before us infantilizing us. Telling us we don't know what we're doing and diminishing our efforts when we try to figure things out and be independent. I also think it's a byproduct of the state of our current world. How our economic systems are crashing, inflation is rising, we survived a pandemic, there's more people being boldly hateful, there's a war. Our current Zeitgeist is depressing. So we kinda just accepted it and went, "yeah we're not ready. We are just kids, we were doing our best to be grownups so why be something we're not?" with this widespread desire to escape to a simpler time when things made sense. Childhood. (I haven't finished the video yet but this was my thoughts on it. I'll probably edit or something after I finish it.)
Millenials faced this, too - entire movements that people underreported or waved off as 'what do these kids want' to the point they managed to kill the protests. (Occupy Wall Street). This is to say this has been going on for TWO GENERATIONS now - and I don't see how it's going to change if we end up perpetuating this. It's very easy to treat others the way you were - this is how intergenerational trauma and abuse cycles work.
Our biggest struggle is to not do that to the kids now. Ever.
Our economic prospects are slim and our political power to change anything from within the system is pretty much 0
Yeah, It feels like theres no structure in the current society to what it means to be an "adult" like there was for the people with these opinions. I feel like any time before the 1980s you could walk up to someone and ask what an adult is and theyd have an answer lined up.
But whatever answer that was, theres millions of variations of that now. Why even bother with trying to figure out what society determines as an adult at that point? So people just be themselves
I told some people I was asexual (cause Pride March) and they basically would ask questions and make comments as if I were a child (I'm 25). When I explained stuff about romantic attraction, they were like "awww, so innocent and pure" and hugged me even though I didn't know them and hated being touched by strangers. Apparently, what distinguishes adults from children is sexual attraction and having seggs. Smh
I'm not asexual, and I'm not trying to say that my experiences are the same as yours, but I just have to say, the whole, "Aw! You're a virgin? That's so cute! You're so innocent and pure." comments are just so condescending and get on my nerves a lot, and I feel like this isn't addressed enough. I can't stand comments like that.
@@elizrebezilmadommdo1662 I feel ya :((
I used to have lots of pervy thoughts as a child so that part isn't true! Their reaction though is kind of creepy when I really think about it, treating you like an alien object. That must've been the most awkward hug of your life. Just thinking about it makes me want to take a shower to wash them off.
@@frost8077 As a child? How??
@@pyxn420 Just random thoughts. That's beyond me to know.
I remember the first time I was called "Sir" by an adult. It was mind-blowing. Too bad the person calling me that was an ABA therapist who was just trying to get into my head.
Animated media and games shouldn’t be thought of as infantilizing. As a storyteller, I am always engaging with with these things. It isn’t childish or nostalgia seeking for me to do so. I want to write, draw and create my own works. I could go beyond this and try and peace together every aspect of this, but other comments have already hit the nail on the head when it comes to that point specifically.
I think I infantilize myself partially to help cope with the fact that the way that our world works was very intentionally designed to keep us poor, mad, and miserable. Trying to live even a slightly okay life within it is next to impossible, even if you "put in the hard work". So I'd rather just float by having a decent-ish time for as long as I can and trade in my hand when it's time.
Is that infantilization?
Pretty sure that's just called depression lol
Very well said, that's where I'm at too. I put in the hard work, was rewarded with absolutely nothing for my struggles, and now just hang out making ends meet until they don't meet any more. Going above and beyond gets you nada.
@@Gnome-kc7pr No yeah for sure, I just mean that I cope with my depressive outlook on society by infantalizing myself
As a full grown adult, I've been told I'm childish many times, mostly because I'm sensitive and and don't work well under too much pressure. Last time a coworker told me I was childish for not taking verbal abuse from our boss, I just snapped and told her that the abiliy to endure mistreat and exploitation does not make her mature... But still, sometimes I think she might have a point.
PD: being 5,0 ft AFAB doesn't help either. I don't know if it's necessarily true, but I often feel that I'd be taken more seriously if I could just turn into a 6 ft man
I think height definitely helps, I was super short and then grew tall all at once so I’d know! I think you’re right about men too, there’s a study on this, can’t remember the name. But they found that people are more likely to attribute men’s emotions to the situation and women’s emotions to their temperament. So basically if a man’s upset we’re more likely to assume it’s reasonable, but for women showing the same behaviours we’re more likely to assume they’re just emotional. Not sure about non binary people, I don’t think the study covered that, but usually there’s overlap with women’s experiences
she does not have point, that is a coward's belief, they need numbers instead of facts to stand, you are the one with the point, you are the one that is "mature' whatever that means, but it is you who stands in the right.
5,0 ft is brutal 💀
23:05 I think an important part is how we label or characterise these things.
Maybe if we didn’t designate these as “kid things” then we wouldn’t infantilise ourselves doing them.
agree on the autism infantilisation stuff, i'm 21 living at home with my parents and it's so confusing... it's just all about what's convenient for everyone else essentially.
As a out of touch 38 year old Buddhist weirdo I am so grateful for this content, I am so pleased you have taken the time to be a foil for me to understand a much broader perspective and understanding on how the younger generation deals with mental health and issues of magnetized groups .
magnetized?
@@asuka_the_void_witchmarginalized*
@@asuka_the_void_witch I meant marginalized yeah heheh....Unless gen z has super powers of some sort I was not aware of...
oh shit i'm 38 and i think of him as a peer omg i've infantilized myself back an entire generation T_T
@@meditationforhumanswithpro4893well, magnetic implants have been getting more popular as of late
Damn the comments about infantilizing autistic people really hits home. Even the people who otherwise treat me as a normal human being will still be surprised sometimes when I get a sex joke or when I'm open to smoking with them. Really makes me think no one sees me as an actual adult person
Well "laying flat," isn't refusing to work at all, its refusing to put in the extreme effort that companies and society pressures them to put just prove their productivity and dedication for the betterment of society. Instead "laying flat," means not putting in extreme effort, but still putting in effort, to a degree that just allows them to maintain their livelihood.
Now this, this is some excellent stuff right here. I especially love the interview section where you not only bounce off of each other and share ideas, but interject where you see a flaw or something you can expand upon in a better way. Excellent, excellent stuff.
Re: nostalgia and cartoons. As an amateur artist, I come back to shows that I was exposed to (but because of my Christian background didn’t get to enjoy) to experience them as entertainment, but also to re-examine them as art with my new experience. I think there is a side of self-infantilisation that is self-examination, coming back to things with a new perspective.
That doesn’t change the fact that self-infantilisation can be paralyzing, but it doesn’t have to be.
There’s also the fact that art and animation aren’t always for kids, same with video games, comic books etc. People forget that there have to be adults with some level of interest in this stuff or else it wouldn’t exist at all
@@amethystimagination3332 For sure, but cartoons for kids can have just as much artistic merit as those geared toward adults. I wouldn’t feel even a little self conscious to say that The Powerpuff Girls is artistically and comedically preferable to Family Guy. Lying at home in bed watching anything has the same level of infantilism to me whether you’re watching Avatar or Succession, but what I intended to convey is that that’s not necessarily a bad thing to do either way. In fact, a good thing (in moderation)!
I wouldn't say "self-examination" is another side of "self-infantilization" - those seem to be two completely different modes of consumerism (coming from someone almost out of Uni and soon to be working in the Animation industry). It's not that they cannot coexist whilst we consume a childhood film or book - in fact, they usually do -, but they fundamentally speak from different domains in our brains. They can either coexist harmoniously or not, depending on how well a piece of media aged to us as adults - and prioritizing one mode over the other at any given instance is absolutely valid.
Also, media catering to children isn't synonymous with "junk food media" like the video wrongfully implies - and the mere implication of such is honestly insulting. This isn't criticism to you at all, just to the point they made at 22:41.
That's interesting! I do identify as a childlike adult. It was a decision that I made when I was 8 years old because the version of being adult that was presented to me seemed so f**ed up. And one of the aspects of this was the loss of agency that adults were showing me. Everything they did they "had to do it". And everytime I pointed something out that I found not good about the world or society they said that they can't do anything about it or do anything differently, they don't have a choice and what they do doesn't matter etc. They said my believe in a better world and in love was childish as was me being exited about little things. My values were naive, i was over sensitive etc. I knew already that my stuffed animal friends weren't real but cuddling and talking with them helped me to cope with the stress and emotions of that day and i found that much more healthy than drinking beer and smoking. Even things like being open to people instead of immediately judging them were depicted as something that innocent little children do, the adults somehow can't help themselves (again deny their agency) So, I decided to not "grow up" to always remain a child and I did in a way while still learning, maturing and growing and on the way finding good reason for many of the things (and also learning the psychological or political reasons for the existence of many adult beliefs) but of course also learning that some "adult things" of course do make sense. The most recent discussion I had about this was about my choice of clothes and that it is childish to want to wear what I like (or to like colors at all) and I have to accept that I have to dress "appropriate". I said I understand that for certain occasions there are dresscodes or a way of dressing appropriately for that occasion, that make very much sense, like work or people in certain roles or special occasions, but in everyday life I want to wear what gives me joy. She said then it's my fault if I'm not being taken seriously. Later that day I was still so angry that I cried. Not because I'm weak but because I know that crying is a very healthy response of my body and psyche to regulate strong emotions and after crying I felt better and even stronger in my values and ideals.
So in conclusion, I really saw it the opposite way. Remaining like a child was a way of me not giving up my agency, my ideals and values, the connection to my emotions and my hope for a better world.
Beautiful comment, thank you for this
I love this insight and how you've phrased this notion of being an adult but still a kid at heart. All the "childish" aspects you mentioned about being open, being hopeful, and being colourful I've felt ashamed of because others have shamed me about it. But your comment has lit up my brain with great words & phrasing to confidently proclaim that I am an adult with agency thanks to my decision to remain child-like! Idek if that makes any sense but thanks for your insight and sharing!
this, all of this
so thoughtfull and life changing!
10000% this 🎯
I usually talk to my parents about how I want a job so I can start saving for a house (I’m 14) and I always ask for tips. My dad often gives me great advice and I appreciate it, but my mom constantly tells me that if I want to know how it feels to move out, I can start paying the bills for our house. I hate it because my mom still treats me like a child even though I’m in high school already and unlike her, I want to achieve things and be successful in life.
Your mom isnt wrong though. If you want to know how it feels to move out, all she has to do is to have you pay bills for your house. She's teaching you a life lesson that it's not as easy as it looks
I really appreciate you talking about this. The end of this video seriously gave me chills. As an educator who works outside of the school system I have been lucky to get to know other adult educators who care about and view children as humans (and I have had to do some unlearning to work with kids as I do now) I have always said that my few years working within the school system was too much for me, emotionally exhausting and that I just wasn't cut out for that... but this video made me realize that I was feeling the dehumanizing aspect of being put in a position of power in a system that doesn't value children as humans. Every time I had to ignore children's emotional needs or the pain they were in to force them to work on fractions or something else on the loaded schedule, it broke me down a little more, and I did feel powerless in a lot of ways even as the one in power. Even now after working with kids on my own terms with like minded adults for quite a few years, sometimes I even get a feeling of guilt or like I am doing something wrong when I give them autonomy or focus more on building connections and community than RiGorOus CurRicULa. But I have seen the transformations of kids over time. I have seen how kids have grown more confident, less self loathing, more trustworthy and open, and happier. But we still get a lot of people who don't even see us (the adult educators) as legit or accomplished because we're not doing things within the system.. "when are you going to get a real job?" imagining this is a stepping stone, pushing us to teach more "real skills" etc. Anyways, longer than I thought I would comment but just want to say thank you for giving me the language to explain and understand why my work is important, and for speaking about these things!!
"Treating children as humans" - It wouldn't be fair to ask a 4 year old to file income taxes, or take on the breadwinner role for a disabled parent. But neither is it fair to tell the 16 year old that he should not take that trade apprenticeship because we had higher hopes. Most of our life is lived in between the extremes where it's not as obvious where the line between help/protection and infantilization is. And that line isn't in the same place for every individual, they all mature at different rates. There should be an escalating scale of earned responsibility and privilege, not some cliff of adulthood that we shove unprepared teens off of.
I think we need to treat children with more respect in general, as they aren't our property and how they're treated when young can and does have a big influence in how they are as adults - this is the thing more people need to remember if we want more healthy adults. It isn't just about avoiding giving them age-inappropriate tasks, but I agree asking them to do things they're obviously not developmentally equipped to do is still disrespectful.
Treating them like people isn’t giving them a job tho
I'll take the 4 year that files income taxes learning crucial skills during developmental years this comes in handy
It’s so jarring to go through middle school one second and the next be flung into college applications and expected to know exactly what you’re going to do with your life and be scolded if you don’t.
Finally someone said it😅😅
oh dear it appears i have been infantilising myself since puberty... i struggle w anxiety and im pretty averse to making decisions and it's kind of leeched into my personality to the point where i feel like i have no authority or autonomy bc i'm so used to letting others decide things. Walking the line between "nurturing the inner child" by revisiting activities/shows i enjoyed when i was younger, and just being an idiot baby with no real thoughts. I was praised for being mature for my age when i was a kid and now im an adult i feel like a toddler at an office desk with no idea whats going on. & i wanna cry and throw up
Same here 😔
Hoping that in the light of this new found realization, our embarkment on the journey of being better is easy
Same!! It reminds me of some Mitski's lyrics: "And I was so young when I behaved 25, yet now I found I've grown into a tall child".
can relate. I'm 18 so I'm fresh out of the barrel but I don't feel like an adult so I'm just trying to take responsibility for my shit right now and learn to be more independent.
@@marshmallowkittyyI feel so similar, I’m almost 16 but I always get a deep pit in my stomach when I have to be around people even slightly younger than me because I feel like I am not as mature as they are and I’ve wasted my teenage years riddled with anxiety from just being different from everyone else. (Especially when I hear people taking about jobs and careers)
@@marshmallowkittyyThis is me, but right now I’m going through some financial difficulties in my life, so I’m hindered to even do anything on my own anyway. But I’d be lying if I said I was excited to work. I still feel like a kid who doesn’t know how to do anything and I’m too afraid to try.
Tip from an episode of Bluey: Work smarter not harder.
It’s an old saying that didn’t originate in Bluey but I figured it was worth quoting.
As someone who's gen Z but also has worked with children for over 3 years now: it's so weird and almost scary how kids are often treated as little animals, either rewarded or abused for their actions, with so little agency over their lives. Instead of doing things for them and then punishing them for not doing things we want them to do we should really try and give them as much space and support we can to help them be independent and take care of themselves. Maybe then being an adult won't seem so scary once they've grown.
How do you propose we do that?
@@asandax6 Take cues from a lot of other countries and allow kids more freedom. As well as, building cities/towns so that people without a Driver's Licence can get around. The vast majority of children today are never allowed to go outside even if the outside is appealing. Which it's very much not. Ah yes, play in in 100 degree weather in your local car park where the asphalt reaches burning temps. Or go to the arcade? >1 hour by walking. >15 min by bike (if you have sidewalks or bike parking.) It'll force you to spend a lot of money that you don't have. Rare are the places where you can have fun without paying. Or just places you can hang around in that isn't your house. Benches are gone at this point because people are terrible to homeless people. Parks? Good point but they're only available in good weather, an increasingly rare thing in our age. If you've ever seen LA or Phoenix, who would want to go outside in those places when you don't have a Driver's Licence.
I've been acting and thinking childish as a personal trait for a long time now, which is to say I probably never grew out of school even though I'm about to finish Uni.
I'm a 24 year old man, I even still look like a teen, and I actually take some sort of pride in being this way, while also deeply aware of the issues that come with living like a child already into adulthood can bring.
I love being the possitve happy go lucky guy, always laughing and smiling, always bringing the energy up when the group feels low. My natural skills are all social stuff like bringing the music and singing to the party, preparing the fire for the camping trip, finding the humor in all things, and people love me for it. I like to think that we shouldn't ever loose touch with that inner child, and I see people who are disconnected from theirs and live miserable monochrome existences and I feel sad for them. I connect with children like no other I know, treat them as equals and take them seriously, while others see them as annoying and alien (good to see you're tackling that in a future video). I try to show people the good in life and bring the magic and wonder when everyone's talking statistics, logic, probabilities, burocracy, etc.
But on the other side of the coin, yeah, I'm a manchild, straight up, and people notice too and sometimes treat me as such. No one ever taught me how to live life as an adult, how to survive in this new digital age. I live day by day reactively, just waiting for stuff to happen and only looking for the next fun thing to do with friends. Friends that are slowly but surely drifting into more mature and adult-like lives, with all the boredom and dullness this brings with it (insert comment about the current late stage system we all live under)
Never had a proper stable job, only freelance stuff that, again, I just stumble upon, never really going out to look for it. I have ADHD and a propensity to frustration, so DOING stuff and teaching myself skills are HARD, further lowering my value as a productive member of society.
I'm still a virgin, don't really go out to look for any partners too. I see all people as just that, random people that might or might not be fun to hang around with, oblivious to any subtle clues people show to me, and even if I notice, fear of this new world of intimacy pushes me back greatly, for lack of experience.
All of this shows a great fear of failure as well, sings of trauma.
I'm a feral child, following impulses, and society doesn't have any use for me, and only close friends can appreciate my personal charm.
I can only do all of this because I'm lucky to still be living with my grandparents to this day. Angels that take care of me and treat me like their favorite child forever. But I recognize the diservice I'm doing to myself by extending this lifestyle for this long, even though I try to justify or rationalize that EVERYONE should relax a bit more and have fun in such a hard world... The reality is, all of this shall come to an end someday, and if I'm not prepared, I'm gonna have a bad time. They say you should fail as much as possible when young, and I've avoided failure like the plague to this day, avoiding it by not playing the game, actively demonizing the game and what it does to people... But I need to learn how to defend myself and stand up for myself someday....
Great video as always Elliot! Truly talking about the stuff that has to be talked about more! Thank you for informing the masses and bringing awareness.
That makes sense but also sounds difficult?? I imagine it’d be stressful to feel unprepared and also a bit lonely to feel like your friends are drifting into different lives than you. I know a lot of grandparents like to spoil their grandkids and don’t always recognise when they’re grown up. I’m sure it’d be an adjustment but if you did decide to try work on “growing up” more it might allow you to share responsibilities with them in a way that’s positive for you all? It’s nice to do things together and it can make the boring things more fun. With friends too, sometimes I go to the supermarket or appointments with a friend and we still have fun! Some people call it errand hangs. I remember when my Grandma realised I was all grown up one day and she adjusted how she speaks to me. I love that we can talk in a different way now and I don’t think I’d have grown up as much if she didn’t do that for me. I’ll always be her granddaughter, but sometimes I can be a friend to her in a more mature way too and it’s really cool!!!! It’s genuinely been one of the best parts of adulthood for me. I often wish I could’ve had that with my other grandparents but they’ve passed. I know you said you’re not there right now and that’s totally up to you to judge but if you ever need it there’s a lot of youtube videos that teach how to take care of all sorts of things. My parents neglected a lot of stuff with me so that’s what I’ve done. There’s everything from laundry to budgeting to repairs. And your grandparents might even teach you some things if you ask, that could be really sweet!!! I get not wanting to let go of that fun and positivity, but I don’t think you’d have to? It sounds like that’s very much part of who you are and if you ever do decide to try I think you’ll find a balance. That really is one of the gifts of adhd imo, I think we have to have fun or we don’t manage very well. I know firsthand how tough it can make it though!! If you’re struggling with doing things the “right” way or finding day to day life super boring I highly recommend seeing how others with adhd manage those things. Sometimes we need a different approach and sometimes we just need more fun. I sometimes try to think how I’d turn responsibilities into a game if I was taking care of a kid and then I just do it that way for myself lol. It might be silly but it beats relying on last minute panic! That stopped working for me (I got desensitised to the stress) and literally everything fell apart tbh, but I’m okay now and slowly picking up the pieces. It sounds like you really love your grandparents and I hope you can make the most of your time living with them! I know some people act like to grow up you have to live alone and all that but responsibilities can be shared. You have a really lucky opportunity and I hope you’re enjoying it!!!
This brought tears to my eyes. We share almost the exact same life path/experiences like you literally just described my entire life story, I'm a 24 year old adult just living the slow life and taking it easy too, no proper ambitions, future plans or contingencies, avoiding being fully employed bc I struggle with executive dysfunction. It's so comforting to read this knowing that I'm not the only one out there who feels this way. Honestly I hope that we all do "make" it one day eventually.
@@em6644 thanks for the words! I do really love my grandparents, and I help them out in everything I can here at the house, they're getting old and truly need help, and I'm happy to be there for them. But yeah, there's always that voice telling me that I should be living on my own, having a job, a life, etc.
I've researched a lot into adhd, focus and trauma, and that's the only way I actually have the proper words to describe my life and problems. Still working on actually doing something about it.
@@MrKojack28 aww thank you for the comment, it's lovely to be able to relate with people and have validation. We'll make it! We're all beautiful in our own way.
You sound like someone I'd like to be friends with, in earnest
Truly madly deeply I cannot believe this conversation was had without mentioning trauma or trauma informed care.
neither was poverty/financial hardships in childhood. that can have a more profound effect than people realize.
From a young age, I grappled with an advanced maturity, feeling unseen and unheard for who I truly was. The desire for independence was stifled, and despite yearning for work and financial autonomy, doors remained closed. So eventually I gave up. Moving to a more inclusive community allowed me to embrace my true identity as a trans woman, yet this journey through self-discovery has been emotionally turbulent. Presently, I find comfort in therapy, a sanctuary supported by my remarkable partner-a fellow non-neurotypical soul-whose playful, childlike nature, as well as being acutely aware of the atrocities of the world, complements my own experience. As my 19th birthday approaches, the struggle between adulthood and regression weighs heavily on me. Rehabilitation seems imperative as I navigate the complexities of my emotions, leaning on my partner, who serves as both my rock and a companion in the playful realm, for solace and guidance.
Millennials think that 19 years old is a kid. Bro, I’m about to be 20. I’m about to be in the workforce.
I do not infantilize myself. I am infantilized by others.
I was crazy infantilised and coddled as a child, and it's taken many years of therapy to even get as far as I have. I grew up with autism and my parents continued babying me and having extremely low expectations and now I'm having to put in the work to catch up with what I missed. I have a lot of longstanding mental health problems that crippled my ability to reason, to understand instructions, to organize, to devise plans and follow through. I frequently infantilized myself into my 20's because I believed I was just stupid. I put my foot down in 2019 and have been working hard to increase my ability to function, and while I sometimes miss the simplicity of puers aeternis life, I don't miss how empty and worthless I felt. Life has been better even though I have more problems than ever before.
This hit really close to home for me.
I feel like I’m in a very similar situation to you. I recently got a new therapist and I’m getting along very well with her and I’m actually making progress. Well until my mom and dad have to butt in and ask me stuff about what I’m doing in therapy and if it’s actually “working” like my therapist is also their therapist. It completely throws me off of my stride because now I’m reminded of how much I suspect that they don’t actually trust me to be making the “right” choices and to change my life for the better. Whenever I try to assert myself and actually speak my mind to them about my problems with them they just end up deflecting and verbally beating me down until I give up and then we can all go on our own ways pretending everything is hunky-dory until the next time that somebody messes up and we have to acknowledge that we actually do have problems with each other again. Instead of just never sharing anything because we don’t want to start another argument that goes nowhere. What I really want right now is for them to actually trust me and give me the privacy with my therapist that I actually need for her to work with me. But I think they probably just aren’t used to not being in the room with me because that is the way it has always been ever since I was a kid.
I relate
I'm a teen. I'm 15, but I can look like I'm 13 sometimes. From my point of view, it is painfully obvious that I am not treated as human- a majority of the time. For example: being interrupted like it's nothing by adults around me, adults talking about me and even asking my mom questions about or related to me, as if I'm not right there and can't answer the person myself. Proving myself capable over and over, only to be not trusted in the end, and have things over explained to me, no matter how much I show people that I am knowledgeable in the subject. This is my life, everyday. This is my friends' life, everyday.
I can't wait until part two, this video essay is incredibly interesting!!
In addition to what you said, I think that our society confuses "being playful" with "being infantile" and therefore “not being responsible”.
Playfulness is in our deep nature and playfulness is a manifestation of freedom - freedom of thought, freedom of exploration, freedom of curiosity. Even eastern schools talk about “beginners mind” [Suzuki], “child’s mind” - that is just a different name for a playful mind. That is the mind that is in its natural state, that is the mind that sees, that does what matters.
Playfulness is a source of innovation, of progress. The kind of progress that stems from what we observe in the playful moment, when we are present to the situation. Playful moment is a prerequisite for expression of true deep understanding.
Playfulness is in many ways incompatible with the system we live in. Discovering and resolving “What matters” might be in conflict with “What is expected” by the system to satisfy the system.
In addition to what you mentioned in your video, there is also another aspect of infantilisation or of “ridicule of playfulness”: fear. The act of playfulness is unpredictable and that makes people who are not used to free self-expression scared, uncomfortable. Predictability of mechanical or automated lives brings illusion of safety to people. Anything that brings unknowns breaks the safety and therefore brings fear. Ridicule of playfulness is also a self-protection of society with strictly deterministic way of living.
We need to de-ridicule, protect and promote playfulness, with all necessary responsibility.
Thanks for the video!
I wish people could recognise that some individuals have different needs, without taking that as an opportunity to deny those people agency. It's like there are only two options: fully functional adult who gets zero help from anyone around them, and child who must be led around.
This is really interesting. As a black AFAB pretty much my whole life people have projected strength on to me. Since I became an adult I’ve gone out my way indulge in ‘easy’ things were I can cause I’ve been fighting for so long. So having people view me as someone who doesn’t hold all the answers and is ‘just a girl’ is what I need sometimes. I know I’m capable. I’m a masters student hoping to get a PHD but I also long for a life outside of this where I don’t have to work to survive or worry about the ways the government is stripping my people of rights. But yeah we shouldn’t let that completely hide us from the worlds issues at large like we can’t do anything. I think most people indulge in the nostalgia cause 1) it’s easier to access than waiting for reruns 2) good emotions and memories.
With my ADHD I know how humiliating it can be especially when my interests are deemed silly or babyish cause of infantilisation. I really want to give people the benefit of the doubt that these are mostly just anti-work memes.
Thanks for sharing your experience, it's interesting to read. I wonder if "just a girl" attitude is a counter-action to people putting too much responsibility on a person. As a eldest child in a family I can certainly relate to that.
I was shocked when you read the definition of it being a form of abuse.. and her experience made me realize why I hated when one of my parents accompanied me to doctor appointments. They mean well but every time they talked on my behalf I felt like something was breaking inside. I admit that I have done it to myself other times because I preferred the “softer” treatment over being yelled at. I have yet to finish watching but I want to thank you for this informative essay
''growing up'' means getting a 9-5 job, not being a fully formed human. Growing up means having children only to send them off to school where the state raises them while you dont because you're too busy working and commuting.
To be honest, I totally get that some young people don't feel like working on the world's problems because they feel so overwhelming. And we seek relaxation and comfort in the things we used to like as children.
On the other hand, I have a lot of experience with infantalization because I am autistic. I'm not a kid. I'm a grown woman.
To answer the last question, no, obviously not. If we did children wouldn't be used as a cudgel wielded to oppress others. "Think of the children" is both dehumanizing the child and the group the moral panic is pointed towards.
It's not just children. If you look at the arguments around sex work, you might notice that the anti- faction often refer to the workers as 'girls' rather than 'women.' They use infantalisation too: Implying that sex workers are the victims who need to be protected from the dangerous adult world, but certainly never listened to or allowed to make their own decisions.