Inside Kisii Witchhunt

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  • čas přidán 13. 11. 2021
  • Incidents of mob lynching that rocked Kisii County in recent days have forced authorities to confront the question of superstitious practices in the region and particularly the contentious issue of witchcraft. In recent shocking cases, elderly women were targeted and killed by mobs on suspicion of practicing witchcraft. Government responded to the ghastly lynching by forming a taskforce to interrogate the disturbing events in Kisii. Citizen TV’s Gatete Njoroge spent time in villages across kisii County seeking to explain the trends of brutal death, destruction & distrust associated with witchcraft. Here is inside the witch hunt.

Komentáře • 296

  • @aitsoesilaba4773
    @aitsoesilaba4773 Před 2 lety +67

    There's no difference between a witch and a person setting a witch on fire😏

  • @lorettahmasanta7852
    @lorettahmasanta7852 Před 2 lety +24

    Sababu hao wenye wameconfess it’s true that is still a lie. Mimi nimesema wachomwe. Uchawi iko. Nkt

  • @PimaAZ
    @PimaAZ Před 2 lety +22

    I’m so mad and can’t even watch this my eyes getting teary right now... may their souls of those sweet grandmas Rest In Peace

  • @zakayomwamba7475
    @zakayomwamba7475 Před 2 lety +22

    I think it is caused by scarcity of land in this region.Lynchers should be treated like robbers.

  • @alimracollogetube9316
    @alimracollogetube9316 Před 2 lety +9

    It really touched me. It's very unfair

  • @hkmeme5437
    @hkmeme5437 Před 2 lety +32

    Kutengemea uchawi ni kitu kibaya, mchawi ni mtu mwenye wivu na mafanikio ya wengine

    • @user-nc4fi2xr2t
      @user-nc4fi2xr2t Před 2 lety +2

      Kabisa

    • @jeffking254
      @jeffking254 Před 2 lety

      Wachawi wachomwe

    • @hkmeme5437
      @hkmeme5437 Před 2 lety

      @@jeffking254 kabisa, Kuna mmoja aliniangaisha miaka 2, ulikuwa mtihani wa kimaisha nashukuru mungu nilipita na saii Niko sawa

  • @anthonymuraguri7257
    @anthonymuraguri7257 Před 2 lety +11

    Believing in witchcraft isn't just ridiculous but clearly dangerous.

  • @atongasamson1734
    @atongasamson1734 Před 2 lety +26

    At what time does these incidents happen?
    The police have also allowed these incidents to happen,because these have been repeated over time.

  • @amastarpiesh1909
    @amastarpiesh1909 Před 2 lety +15

    Prayers are powerful

  • @sleka_ke4577
    @sleka_ke4577 Před 2 lety +7

    Nobody is talking about the guy who says his mother was a witch, and was rightfully a witch

  • @janetondieki9862
    @janetondieki9862 Před 2 lety +9

    Gaki morogi taiyo arabwatwe asambwe you're only burning the innocents out of grudge maybe on land issues or jelousy but hakuna mchawi atashikwa achomwe they will be there in the crowds but you will never catch them. God may your justice prevail on any innocent person burnt.

  • @Kenyaentertainment
    @Kenyaentertainment Před 2 lety +6

    Usikue haraka kuua mtu bila evidence tosha jua maisha ni ya mungu na mungu ndo huukumu mtu

  • @akinyiokeyo4618
    @akinyiokeyo4618 Před 2 lety +7

    This is what used to happen in England in the 1600s

  • @mtuanimal
    @mtuanimal Před 2 lety +15

    we should not be afraid of the witches but the people who burn them

  • @suzlast4518
    @suzlast4518 Před 2 lety +14

    Most High Yah have mercy to your children .

  • @nelsonkiiru7252
    @nelsonkiiru7252 Před 2 lety +13

    This is why I believe to develop in some other areas is just hard for most people, if it's not backwards culture, it's backwards religious practices,culture and family that drags people down. Good example is such stories. Countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, syria etc...

  • @ronaldoketchabjales3453
    @ronaldoketchabjales3453 Před 2 lety +33

    I swear to God if she was my grany or mum or even related to me. Those people who did It, would have been dead by now. This is pure murder maze😭

    • @vivosereni
      @vivosereni Před 2 lety +6

      Its sad but how would you revenge against over 100 people .

    • @alfanm.8221
      @alfanm.8221 Před 2 lety +1

      That was the question i wanted to ask him to.

    • @georgeikinya2779
      @georgeikinya2779 Před 2 lety +4

      @@vivosereni In any mob action, there is always a ring leader or leaders, may be 2 or 5. The one who emotionally shouts orders and others hysterically follows like sheep. So choking with anger this is , especially when it's your mum. Man , you cannot sleep as you are haunted by imaginations of the anguish she went through. As Ronald says, i will suspend every life project and buy myself an RPG and make sure atleast 5 of the barbaric idiots involved are under the soil too.

    • @tinamutua2040
      @tinamutua2040 Před 2 lety

      🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    • @davidyonge4911
      @davidyonge4911 Před 2 lety +1

      Why call it pure murder. Murder is murder

  • @maryannetarus9643
    @maryannetarus9643 Před 2 lety +10

    But only God will jugde and being justice
    Yeye ndio mwenye anajua ukweli.
    All in all No one has right to take life

  • @gulochristine7738
    @gulochristine7738 Před 2 lety +16

    Kama niukweli walikuwa wachawi, wachomwe kabisaa, kenye napitia through witchcraft n mungu Tu

    • @nelsonkiiru7252
      @nelsonkiiru7252 Před 2 lety +2

      Ur backwards!! Blame urself either bad luck, lack of hardwork on your part.

    • @susankariuki449
      @susankariuki449 Před 2 měsíci

      ​@@nelsonkiiru7252like the way monica waz killed?

    • @susankariuki449
      @susankariuki449 Před 2 měsíci

      Youre refusing to answer and they rot In the lake ov fire! And you ad told us you are...​@@nelsonkiiru7252

  • @patriciawaisaac4885
    @patriciawaisaac4885 Před 2 lety +12

    Who gave them the authority to judge may God deal with them accordingly why this people are not merciful killing this old people why they were deaf to hear their cry why take someone life without evidence very sad indeed

  • @violetnyaboke3798
    @violetnyaboke3798 Před 2 lety +17

    Wachawi wako hakuna kitu kama belief

  • @cynthiakeza
    @cynthiakeza Před 2 lety +6

    Why is that is the elderly who are being suspected and killed.those litting the fire ndo wachawi hasa.roho chafu hao😤.hata ka uchawi iko the suspects got rights.not instant killing.

  • @Okwirisam254
    @Okwirisam254 Před 2 lety +17

    Nyinyi mume zaliwa Town uka somea Town uka marry in Town will not understand that UCHAWI is real in those Regions.
    This people are jealous even when you buy new suits, that can send you to your grave.

    • @nelsonkiiru7252
      @nelsonkiiru7252 Před 2 lety +4

      It's jealousy, don't start accounting to such stupid practices which most likely don't even work.

    • @tinamutua2040
      @tinamutua2040 Před 2 lety +3

      I understand you very well. But this is not the right way to punish them

    • @nilobantuchick
      @nilobantuchick Před 2 lety

      Hehehe eti town? You will not believe even In town! This is generation of witches! They have gone for too long!You see these religious people are the most people who visit witches. They put their advertisement on boards and our society has allow it!

    • @susankariuki449
      @susankariuki449 Před 2 měsíci

      Are you a killer witch or not?!​@@nelsonkiiru7252

  • @briannyaribo5113
    @briannyaribo5113 Před 2 lety +10

    I wish those conderming the act of burn witches ... Warogwe na hao wachawi ndo wajue the pain someone goes through yet he/she can't get help in the hospital.... They were witches were are other members apart from the family not interrogated or condemned the act.... For me have seen how this people temper with people lives for worse... I support their burning... Condemn we if you feel like

    • @Damar1987
      @Damar1987 Před 2 lety +1

      Ni wachawi pia,,wachawi walipeleka maiti Kwa church,In a church!!!

    • @erickamrose322
      @erickamrose322 Před 2 lety +1

      Wachawi wachomwe kabsaaaa.Lets not have mercy on them.

    • @mburugithinji7204
      @mburugithinji7204 Před 2 lety +1

      Can one prove that they have been bewitched ..hii ni upuzi

    • @Damar1987
      @Damar1987 Před 2 lety +1

      @@mburugithinji7204 Achana na wakisii bana

    • @macvoice6098
      @macvoice6098 Před 2 lety

      tafuta pesa !! this is poverty speacking.

  • @mumchumbaa34
    @mumchumbaa34 Před 2 lety +5

    Wah 🤔🤔🤔 this is totally unfair 😑

  • @kilunguisrael9295
    @kilunguisrael9295 Před 2 lety +11

    God is the final judge.These are end times.siku ya hukumu ipo.Waliouliwa bure wako in safe hands of Christ.Waliouana hawataepuka moto wa milele uliomkali kuliko waliowachoma nao.Kizazi chao kiko katika hatari.Hakitafurahia kamwe juu ya laana ya Mungu iko juu yao.Just watch them and see

    • @gladwelltailor
      @gladwelltailor Před 2 lety +1

      Totally agree it's curse of their generations

  • @maulinegesare5106
    @maulinegesare5106 Před 2 lety +28

    But the reality remains wichhcrafts are there and doing terrible things to other people's children just because of jealousy hawataki kuona watu wakipiga hatua maishani anyway a day of judgement is coming we aren't God to judge☹️

    • @boerandemo7766
      @boerandemo7766 Před rokem

      Those are crappy beliefs. Emancipate yourself from such rudimentary lowlife notions

  • @sarahawinda5130
    @sarahawinda5130 Před 2 lety +6

    Very sad 🥺

  • @winnieosoro7556
    @winnieosoro7556 Před 2 lety +10

    Na mwenye alichukua report form nikiwa primary school walai God is seeing you hata Kama uliniroga nikakuwa mjinga kwa class ,am telling you one day one Time

    • @ruthnjenga7558
      @ruthnjenga7558 Před 2 lety +8

      Na watu wanasema akuna Uchawi unless it's done to them they can't understand.

    • @gogetter7985
      @gogetter7985 Před 2 lety +6

      Akili Yako ndogo ndio maana Bado unaamini ulirogwa 😂😂

    • @winnieosoro7556
      @winnieosoro7556 Před 2 lety +4

      @@gogetter7985 haujarogwa vizuri wewe ,pia wewe utakuja kutoa testimony na hii akili yangu ndogo

    • @eddiemois1236
      @eddiemois1236 Před 2 lety +7

      Wacha ignorance. Kama wewe ni mjinga don't blame it on people!

    • @bestofbothworlds4990
      @bestofbothworlds4990 Před 2 lety +2

      So pia kutoshika darasani mnatumia witchcraft kama scapegoat ...wakisii mko na shida ya ushamba😂😂😂

  • @Antoney_Mokaya50
    @Antoney_Mokaya50 Před 2 lety +15

    Everything is clear here, let the fight continue in the Name Of Jesus Christ

    • @isaacmwangi7942
      @isaacmwangi7942 Před 2 lety

      U r not a believer my friend u r just as useless as this pple

    • @X-ty3de
      @X-ty3de Před 6 měsíci

      how are you even a teacher with that thinking?

  • @robbitorobbito5480
    @robbitorobbito5480 Před 2 lety +4

    Government must do something 😥😥😥😳

  • @Csakuraly
    @Csakuraly Před 2 lety +15

    I like this Obino Nyambane guy he has a point that we assume very often

  • @janemarwa3023
    @janemarwa3023 Před 2 lety +12

    Marani ni kweli kuna wachawi....waliuwa sister yangu juu yakulima maindi

  • @denisgitongakagwiria5058
    @denisgitongakagwiria5058 Před 2 lety +2

    This is a sad incident😭

  • @edinakipngetch4662
    @edinakipngetch4662 Před 2 lety +4

    Mchawi hananga huruma ata kidogo shida ni ile waliomo na wacio wana angamia

  • @african3971
    @african3971 Před rokem +11

    You can never understand unless you are a victim of these witches, sword by a sword..

  • @ruthnjenga7558
    @ruthnjenga7558 Před 2 lety +16

    Witchcraft is Soo real and unless urogwe huezi elewa hii Mambo people are evil and jealous they don't want to see others shining. Huruma yenye mi naoni ni kwamba hao ni mama ya watu and ofcourse we all love our Mummies na hawezi itikia ni wachawi juu ya aibu. Devil's vessels

    • @alvinmbete1691
      @alvinmbete1691 Před 2 lety +2

      Hata wengne wamerogwa na bado wanasema hakuna uchawii...wachawi n wabayaa sana

    • @prudencenemwel
      @prudencenemwel Před 2 lety +1

      But you can't justify this on the court of law 🙄 no proof at all🙄

  • @jeffking254
    @jeffking254 Před 2 lety +2

    Hata hapa wamecomment bado. We know their tricks and the brag hakuna law ya wachawi in courts.

  • @missmalinda2921
    @missmalinda2921 Před 2 lety +4

    SAD😢

  • @kingpharaoh2021
    @kingpharaoh2021 Před 2 lety +3

    Because of scarcity of land that's why the killing is happening

  • @Felix-sc8ku
    @Felix-sc8ku Před 2 lety +5

    Kisii's problem is just scarcity of land.

    • @gaudiekerubo
      @gaudiekerubo Před 2 lety

      I din't want to laugh but🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂

  • @selenapeggymargaret6674
    @selenapeggymargaret6674 Před 2 lety +2

    Very sad

  • @bettjkerich5962
    @bettjkerich5962 Před 11 měsíci +1

    Nice

  • @cecilemdeshi5215
    @cecilemdeshi5215 Před 2 lety +5

    Nothing like witchcraft, wakisii mtatuonesha mambo

    • @erizaodoh1229
      @erizaodoh1229 Před 2 lety +1

      How can you explain thieves eating grass if there is nothing like witchcraft?

    • @immaculatemutinda5496
      @immaculatemutinda5496 Před 3 měsíci

      Tsi...wewe ni fala...how do you that they Just not acting . they only fool the foold

  • @jamesnyambura6292
    @jamesnyambura6292 Před 2 lety +6

    This guys should be taken court since they were seen on camera

  • @comedycloud2023
    @comedycloud2023 Před 2 lety +10

    Educate your children so that they know and understand the ways of life, you can't just take someone's life in a cruel manner because someone says they are witch crafts

  • @khadijakheir9323
    @khadijakheir9323 Před 2 lety +1

    Na kiss kuko vizuri 🌳

  • @ongutinyabaga7861
    @ongutinyabaga7861 Před 2 lety +8

    Witches are there

  • @nancybungei9113
    @nancybungei9113 Před 2 lety

    Waaa...

  • @Damar1987
    @Damar1987 Před 2 lety +1

    Wacha niongee pole pole wasinisikie,,walipeleka maiti Kwa kanisa mungu akawapiga picha mwingine hapa anasema ni believes,,wamerudi town wanatembea Kwa mabati na gotumbeseria abanto amasombe bisieri,gakiii

  • @marynjengah2771
    @marynjengah2771 Před 2 lety +1

    😲😱
    This disturbing

  • @carolinenzula4152
    @carolinenzula4152 Před 2 lety +9

    Wachawi ndio hawakosangi church by the way

    • @kerush6983
      @kerush6983 Před 2 lety +3

      Kwani kanisa ni nini? Is just business that has destroyed our beautiful continent

    • @gordonomondi7161
      @gordonomondi7161 Před 2 lety +1

      Totally agree with you. Those traditional village scientists always go to church to hoodwink us.

    • @nelsonkiiru7252
      @nelsonkiiru7252 Před 2 lety

      @@kerush6983 exactly!! Also note that Religion isn't bad as such but having to depend on it entirely (God) is what makes it wrong.

    • @nilobantuchick
      @nilobantuchick Před 2 lety +1

      Weeee tena wao ndio mothers Union and choir!!

    • @susanwanjiku3631
      @susanwanjiku3631 Před 2 měsíci

      so you dont believe God? Then leave people who do​@@nelsonkiiru7252

  • @eunicekerubookemwa1966
    @eunicekerubookemwa1966 Před 2 lety +8

    Wajawi wajomwe sana wanasumbua watoto wa watu

  • @sharonann7205
    @sharonann7205 Před 2 lety +10

    Ending a old persons life is a curse by itself,this is sad and unfortunate.

  • @winnieosoro7556
    @winnieosoro7556 Před 2 lety +1

    ,@thomas kindly nirogoe Kwanza Mimi

  • @samiramotors5060
    @samiramotors5060 Před 2 lety +1

    Ignorance and foolishness, I am ashamed to be in the same country.

  • @carolynewairimu
    @carolynewairimu Před 2 lety +9

    The people in the community know the witches.we cannot say there are no witches .

  • @festuskathuki8229
    @festuskathuki8229 Před 4 měsíci

    Wakisii you must grown behold those poor mentalities!!!...

  • @bensonchege8623
    @bensonchege8623 Před 2 lety +3

    What's Matiangi doing in his position his community in rampant bloody thirsty monsters while your law enforcement asleep 😴

  • @rizikimichelle5885
    @rizikimichelle5885 Před 2 lety +5

    Because of property. Human greed.

  • @marymwami9167
    @marymwami9167 Před 2 lety +15

    I agree! Witchcraft is not only for elderly but withcraft is there...nowadays flashy life and cars is into devil worship..

    • @robertmzee1027
      @robertmzee1027 Před 2 lety +4

      😂 😂 You were born in the wrong century if you believe in such practices, but again maybe you are still in Kenya never moved out your village so that's all you know. Unw beleieve Harry Porter ni ukweli pia?

    • @linvi_chemutai
      @linvi_chemutai Před 7 měsíci

      The greatest trick the devil pulled is convince the world he doesnt exist. Education doesnt change how the wold runs @@robertmzee1027

    • @X-ty3de
      @X-ty3de Před 6 měsíci

      ​@@robertmzee1027howndoes someone even believe that in this age

  • @Jayney214
    @Jayney214 Před 2 lety +2

    When good people keep silent. The evil one triumph. You mean in the whole area hakuna mtu angesimama na ukweli

  • @lvcking
    @lvcking Před 2 lety +2

    Sad

  • @ciruj.m1910
    @ciruj.m1910 Před 2 lety +1

    Am A Christian and as long there's God the devil exists too. This is true these witches exist. Palipo na moshi hapakosi moto. So, they should carry their crosses for ruining peoples lives. wazungu's have a witchcraft page on facebook so it's not just in Africa.

  • @humbleladymilly9893
    @humbleladymilly9893 Před 2 lety +4

    Vitina imechangia sana watu kuitwa wachawi

  • @lorettahmasanta7852
    @lorettahmasanta7852 Před 2 lety +2

    Exodus 22:18

  • @bonfaceaminga1777
    @bonfaceaminga1777 Před rokem +1

    Hata shetani anaenda kanisa, na anatoa adi sadaka....

  • @eolele
    @eolele Před rokem +1

    Witchcraft is a spiritual problem and Should be solved spiritually not physically .

  • @wambuievelynwaithira
    @wambuievelynwaithira Před 2 lety +1

    God remember your children

  • @benedictogabrieli9785
    @benedictogabrieli9785 Před 2 lety

    Nchi ya kenya mrudieni Mungu kwa vitendo ,hayo matendo ni mengi sana kenya,,na yanaietea nchi laana

  • @onyinkwakwamboka
    @onyinkwakwamboka Před rokem

    This is so sad

  • @farukharun1540
    @farukharun1540 Před 2 lety +5

    Only if you knew the pain these witches bring into people's lives ....to take a child to school to study until he graduates then someone sends him nuts ,,,starts speaking to himself eating dirt it's so painful

  • @absconditashibeka8132
    @absconditashibeka8132 Před 2 lety +2

    Seriously!?I thought we are in the 21st century

  • @winnieosoro7556
    @winnieosoro7556 Před 2 lety +4

    Nilisema when I grow up I want to buy a car na bado nimezeeka sijanunua plz nirogoe ninunue gari yangu burisi burisi

  • @phoebemasico3742
    @phoebemasico3742 Před 2 lety +8

    Wanatetea wachawi, ambia wachawi waache kuturoga,. Witchcraft made us leave our sweet homes completely 😭so sad if I come across one for sure na uchungu yote I will act.

  • @samsonombui935
    @samsonombui935 Před 2 lety +1

    What about our reformed pastor Thomas's views in these bad , misleading, occupation
    Accept God

  • @onsarebundi1355
    @onsarebundi1355 Před 2 lety +3

    Only God knows.

  • @patrickmumina9052
    @patrickmumina9052 Před 2 lety +1

    Wa and matiangi is a minister security

  • @beatricekavetsa8479
    @beatricekavetsa8479 Před 2 lety +1

    swali langu ni mbna hpa kenya tuna amini uchawi saana kuliko Country zingine? yani hii ni kukosa kujua mungu yupo

  • @marymwami9167
    @marymwami9167 Před 2 lety +10

    Withcraft is there! It is recognised in penal code and the paraphernalia is witness! ANTIDOTE IS PRAYER AND BELIEF IN CHRIST!

  • @nicholasmesa9795
    @nicholasmesa9795 Před 5 měsíci

    Lack of exposure and social education and justice is dangerous in the community.

  • @user-hk7pc8dt8c
    @user-hk7pc8dt8c Před 6 dny

    Thats good mchawi asihurumjwe

  • @marymwami9167
    @marymwami9167 Před 2 lety +3

    Nyambane is a wrong person to be in that committee! He already has a stand...

  • @Minptahhathor
    @Minptahhathor Před 6 měsíci

    Justice for the old ladies 😢😢

  • @okenagwa-5116
    @okenagwa-5116 Před 2 lety +5

    Sasa tuache hawa watu wakihumiza wengine sababu they are elderly?

    • @ruthn96
      @ruthn96 Před 2 lety +1

      Why only women,it's only land they are after and they will be judged

    • @mbwanamazira6851
      @mbwanamazira6851 Před 2 lety

      @@ruthn96 anaejuwa mchawi hata yy ni mchawi wanauwa wazee bure tu kwasababu ya mali zao

  • @aashifharun7530
    @aashifharun7530 Před 2 lety +2

    Nashangaa kwa Nini wachawi wasiende bank waroge huko na watoke na pesa nyinyi ili wafungue makampuni

    • @ciruj.m1910
      @ciruj.m1910 Před 2 lety

      🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @bensonjojo6259
    @bensonjojo6259 Před 2 měsíci

    The government must stop those barbaric actions.

  • @margaretwanjiku3136
    @margaretwanjiku3136 Před 2 lety +7

    Uchawi iko . period

    • @gogetter7985
      @gogetter7985 Před 2 lety

      Uko na akili ndogo lakini ni sawa

    • @amastarpiesh1909
      @amastarpiesh1909 Před 2 lety

      There is a God in heaven

    • @synghoanda6677
      @synghoanda6677 Před 2 lety +5

      @@gogetter7985 How do theives end up eating grass or being attacked by bees if it's not witchcraft?

    • @gogetter7985
      @gogetter7985 Před 2 lety

      @@synghoanda6677 it is usually stage managed to market the guy

    • @erizaodoh1229
      @erizaodoh1229 Před 2 lety

      @@gogetter7985 Wueh,niliona kinyozi man wetu akikula nyasi ,mpaka wa Leo akili yake haiko sawa and it was back then in 2009 ju aliibia mtu shati

  • @onyinkwakwamboka
    @onyinkwakwamboka Před rokem

    😢this is sad

  • @eddiemois1236
    @eddiemois1236 Před 2 lety +3

    Umaskini, poverty and ignorance will be the death of my people. Ujinga tuu!

  • @vivosereni
    @vivosereni Před 2 lety +2

    We will all grow Old & karma is real .

  • @djmajor1887
    @djmajor1887 Před 2 lety +1

    Na wenye wanakula nyasi ama wanaokotanga takataka

  • @mariitapeter8206
    @mariitapeter8206 Před 2 lety +6

    In whose hands are we safe!!!!!?

  • @kelvinokwembamukoya4715

    wakati askari utakimbizwa na mchawi utasahau law . chunga

  • @wekesadennis7888
    @wekesadennis7888 Před rokem +1

    If you have not been affected by witchcraft you will sorry for them...rumors is close to truth

  • @authentic5259
    @authentic5259 Před 2 lety +1

    This is so wrong...it shouldn't happen

  • @samcaptain001
    @samcaptain001 Před 2 lety +4

    What about the homabay witchcraft club? Is it suspicions..?

  • @annestasiarioba4826
    @annestasiarioba4826 Před 2 lety +1

    Kwani watu wasizeeke yawa

  • @fridaymaureenodipo1315

    All l can say is there is no smoke without fire..