Room Mic Trick - Get 2x the Room Sound From Your Drum Room Microphones
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- This simple trick for recording drums can get your twice the room sound in your drum room microphones. It starts by microphone selection and choosing a microphone that sounds good in a figure 8 polar pattern.
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I put obstacles in front of the mic and the sound has to travel longer paths to get to the mic. Something I learned from a great engineer.
When I recorded the drums for my band, I took 2 ribbon mics, angled them about 45 degrees and opposing the knolls to create a dark omnidirectional pattern, squashed them with compression, some EQ, and hard panned them. It created this HUGE sound in a medium sized living room with a hard wood floor.
Sounds close to Blumlein? Or were they spaced?
Great examples! I have a small room and use this technique. I usually also throw a cardioid up exactly below the ribbon mic for a mid-side option.
Nice idea!
Had 2 Crowley and Tripps for years and have NEVER worked using the null! Thank you brother ;-)
Thank you! Your tricks with polar patterns have really opened my eyes. I mean, I haven't truly thought about what the polar patterns reject, as much as what they capture.
(For example the idea of capturing the vocals and guitar at the same time with two figure 8 mics, placed so that both reject the sound source of the other, is just pure gold! That's from another video, but has to do with the subject.)
This is brilliant. After learning about how to use the null of a mic to my advantage through other videos of yours, I've played around with this idea myself. I like that it adds the great ambience we are looking for, but the transients aren't as washed out as they are all the way on the other side of the room. Also being on the other side of the room you are picking up every little reflection on the way from the drum to the mic. So to me, you're getting a much punchier full sounding room sound, without getting much of the actual direct drums. Almost just like turning up the dry/wet knob on a reverb pedal, rather than just the decay knob. I may be reiterating a lot of what you said, but there are so many great reasons to try this out. Another excellent video!!
Yeah, part of me really likes the strait on drum sound from the back of the room. It's a great sound. I can't say that I always have my room mics close, but it's just a different way of approaching room mics in general. You can also use sm57s a few feet out and point them away from the kit.
Awesome trick, ribbons are definitely the best option for this kind of approach. Reminds me of the weathervane approach as well. Nulls are fantastic!
Yeah, they do that too. This video is partly inspired by that, as Brian talks about keeping the rooms close and using the nulls.
For a smaller space put a sdc on top and use this setup as a mid/side instead of dedicated OH! Works really great!
I've been using this technique for a while. I use two ribbon mics. One pointed at kit and once off axis. I record in a pretty short space and it seems to work pretty good. In fact, sometimes I'll use those two mics as my only mics!
Nice, minimal set ups can work great.
Creative Sound Lab it also helps minimize some phasing issues!
Cool! I've been facing the null at sources for a while to get more out of the room for a while, so it's cool to see I'm not alone! I like doing it with guitar room mics for a very over the top room sound.
I have a relatively small room in my home studio (13×15 or so) and I use a pair of Cascade Fathead ribbons in a Blumlein configuration and that works out great, especially if run through a compressor on the way in.
Im getting some used cascades. What else do you use them on?
Christopher D'Angelo I've used them on electric and acoustic guitars as well as vocals.
Cody Hanlon thanks man cant wait to recieve mine.
I love blumlien. Using one mic the way that I did was just trying to show a concept, but if I were to use two then it would be a blumlein set up.
Holy crap! $200 ribbons? I did not know that was a thing!
There's an excuse to spend some money. I'll have to check them out.
You mentioned that LDC microphones often start sounding funny in Figure of 8. This is something I spent a lot of time trying to figure out awhile back and I THINK I get it. Look at the frequency response polar pattern for say a 414. Notice that higher frequencies tend to be in the figure 8 pattern, but as you go down the spectrum lower frequencies are actually approaching more of an omnidirectional pattern. Ribbons don't look this way. My royers have almost perfectly uniform rejection at all frequencies. Also, note that even in Omni mode a 414 rejects high end from the sides like a fig8 pattern. This stuff is super useful for deciding mic placement.
+Neil Tuuri wow your so right. And one of the reasons why SDCs work well too at cardioid.
This is ingenious. Thank you so much!
You are so welcome!
Great tip! Ribbon mic in a small room sideways for a bigger room sound.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I am grateful for any tip I can get. I have kind of a budget mic set and I am not really satisfied with the sound so far. It feels like the mics are not really able to capture the sound I am hearing.
Thank you and just keep trying out different positions.
@@creativesoundlab I will. I was especially amazed at how fat the BD got with the mic far away, however, my room is not that big so I don't know how to recreate that.
Hey, Ryan... Another Awesome Video !!! Thanks so much for the great content. You’re really such a special light in the world of recording.... and in general. I’ve bought 2 or 3 of your courses and they’re all really great. I always learn stuff from you and your approach that I haven’t found anywhere else. Thanks for being you !!!! : )
This is great!!! I take it in a small room you can use the null to sound further from the kit, but further from the wall. let say if there is only 2 meters between the kit and the wall.
Thanks! Check out this video too on reflections (Wall/floor/etc): czcams.com/video/NyCGmrrb3Og/video.htmlm43s
Would you ever consider making Impulse Responses for the different rooms in your studio? Your studio sounds fantastic and I'd gladly pay for them.
I might be able to do that. I've never done one though. What kind of gear do you need to do that?
Nothing fancy. It's basically just about exciting the room and capturing that sound the same way you'd capture the room sound for drums, say.
Very basically, have a speaker set up to produce a sinesweep (20hz-20khz), record that, and then 'deconvolve' that recorded sound with a 'deconvolver' plugin (the raw sound that's recorded isn't useable with a convolution reverb plugin unless deconvolved).
This might take a bit of research haha
The other cool application for this is to capture guitar cabinets, but I'd be more stoked about the rooms personally :P
The guy from the Hoborec Bull Sessions channel made a video on how to do it, although not the way described above. He popped a balloon in his room of choice and loaded the pop into a convolution reverb and then tweaked the EQ a little bit... not as 'scientific' or thorough as the way above, but definitely a good alternative.
Awesome demo Ryan! I was just thinking about using my ribbon 90° to the kit for an upcoming session as a mono room in addition to the usual condenser stereo pair and here you have the perfect demo to show that that is a great idea :D Cheers man!
great video, i've gone back and forth between a LDC and ribbon mic for a room mic on drums before but haven't really tried messing around with the axis. i'll give this a try next time!
Nice, let me know how it goes!
Dude, you're awesome! I really enjoy watching your videos, and theres always been something valuable to take away and put into practice when I record. I know people often want to be secretive of how they do things to try and have a leg up on others, but what you're doing with all your videos is really great! Thanks for not being afraid to share some tricks, and may The Lord bless you with an abundance of work, peace, and joy with everything you do in the name of Jesus. If you're ever out in San Diego, CA you're always welcome to come by and hang at my studio here. Take care, and keep it up!
i know it is quite randomly asking but does anybody know of a good site to stream newly released tv shows online?
@Eric Scott I use Flixzone. You can find it by googling :)
@Byron Ellis Yea, I have been watching on flixzone for since april myself :D
@Byron Ellis Thanks, signed up and it seems to work :D Appreciate it !!
@Eric Scott Glad I could help :D
i love the way your brain works
good idea! it's great when you can use the rejection pattern of a figure 8 mic to your advantage. :)
another thing though. I see you using those shockproof mic holders a lot... I had one of them break on me in the middle of a live show, the flexible strap just tore the base apart. send the (vocal) mic flying across the piano. I dont know if it was just a faulty/fake piece or if those mic holders are prone to doing that (I never had the courage to use one of them again) but I would inspect them carefully before putting any expensive mics up :)
Love it.
This is great. One of my main concerns with placing room mics in my space is how the crash cymbals wash out and balance with the shells of the kit. Too much distance and the cymbals take over. Perhaps your 'close room' fig 8 method could help this. I'll be tracking drums today. Maybe I'll experiment. Thanks!
Good idea, I like how it sounds
Very good channel bro!! It is very cool to do, i have been used this technique with guitar amp, double track and invert phase to get nice natural reflections. For drums the blumlein will be great on this test...Thx for your vids :-)
Sure thing man, thanks for watching!
i don't have enough inputs in my audio interface for a room mic so i "cheat" exporting a rough mix of the drums recording before eq-editing the sound and using an ambience reverb (100% wet) on that track.
Great video. I got a session in a couple of days. Ill definitely be trying out some stuff.
Nice!
Nothing really matters except how reflective a room is. If your room is not reflective any mic anywhere won't add much.
gem of this video: off axis close allows engineer to add pre-delay if they so choose. Makes snare fuller. Note: You might have to switch phase. Great video! A bit verbose... please condense them! Great videos tho
excelent piece of information, thanks!!
Easy to hear the difference with the ribbon turned sideways. Don't have a ribbon, but I'll try that with the mics I have that have that fig 8 pattern.
Nice! Let me know how it turns out!
There are really cool and inexpensive RM BIV ribbon mics that are produced in Russia. They sound great as room mics, on guitar combos, when you need to add some warmth and midrange detail to the mix
Such an interesting concept.
Great video! Thanks for the tip!
Nullified options help also as a frequent pass switch
another good video.. thanks..
Love this!
Very helpful!
Hello, great video. Nice room sound too, what are the dimensions? Thanks for your efforts to make these excellent videos and tutorials. Sorry for my english, greetings from Argentina.
Really cool idea! My home studio can definitely benefit from this "fake large room" trick. (Now I just need to be able to record more than two channels at once...).
Speaking of which, could you do a video on how to get a full sounding drum kit with only two channels? I've been recording each part of the kit separately-tracking just the kick, then just the snare, etc., with decent results (especially since I'm not a great drummer, so I can focus on getting the part right on each piece of the kit). But I'm wondering if there's a satisfying way to get a full drum sound with just two mics, in a small space?
To be honest, one of the best ways to record with two mics would be to do it with an overhead so the snare sounds good and full, and then mic the kick. It takes some work to move the overhead around to get a good balance.
Well timed boss, recording a kit in a hall tomorrow. ;)
Thanks!
Hey Ryan amazing video, i was wondering if you used the "back" of the N8 in the first example on porpuse or was it just for the looks haha, greetins from mexico city :D
Sure I might have. I don't think these mics sound different on either side, so I just flipped the polarity and it was all good.
Great video!
Awesome! How high is the ribbon off the ground? Tom level?
Brilliant!
Blumlein or spaced pair w/ribbons for a stereo room?
I've been recording drums in a small room... Spaced ribbons about 12-15 feet from back of the snare drum pointed at same spot, and 6 feet apart and 6 feet high. Sounds fine. Remember to hard pan. Using Nady RSM-5's.
excellent video...where would you put this mic in you mix...Center?
Interesting how the bass frequencies respond to the difference in distance.
Yeah, gotta be the room.
I would be interested to hear the sound of a mic pretty close in front of the kit but pointed away from the drums in the opposite direction
It sounded great! What if I only have a cardioid condenser? Do I point it away from the kit, or maybe sideways?
Yeah just point it away. And hopefully it’s not too bright of a mic.
@@creativesoundlab thank you! I'll try that. It's rode nt1-a
Is it a bad idea to position the mic behind the drum player?
My drumset has a shell right in front of it so apparently it’s my only option.
Great Video!
Thanks man!
Great video.
Thanks!
Another inspiration from weathervane, or vice versa? Either way, great idea! Do you find the phase easier to deal with when the mic is closer to the kit?
For phase, yeah closer matters more. You can flip and hear one way or the other that there is more low end. Weathervane was an inspiration for sure on this one!
Mono Cardioid Condenser for Overhead with Stereo Ribbon Room Mics OR Stereo Ribbon Overhead with Mono Omni Condenser. What would everyone prefer?
Mono overhead with stereo room. It’s easy to get a big sound with a mono overhead because you can pan the toms.
What if you used a directional mic and pointed it AWAY from the drums?
Yes exactly the idea. Just use the null of the type of mic you have.
Ryan, have you heard of a ribbon that is more "sturdy" than most? Oh, and somewhat affordable? We have the need to ship our mics quite a bit. I ship in a Pelican-style foam hard case, but still, I and concerned about repeatedly shipping something like a Cascade Fathead or perhaps one of the sE ribbons. Any thoughts?
Man, hard question. All ribbons are fragile and should be taken care of. With sensitivity brings fragility, and with ruggedness creates a less detailed mic. These particular mics are a good balance of that, with an optional foam screen, but minimal silk covering. The R-121 takes a lot of abuse but not the same detail.
Yeah, that is what I was afraid of. R-121 = 'cha-ching!' A little out of our reach at the moment. Guess we will stay away from ribbons until someone with super-human nano tech skills can defeat the laws of physics :-)
Thanks for the reply.
ITD BE GREAT IF YOU COULD DO A VIDEO IN LATENCY..... ( SORRY FOR THE CAPS) LOL
Would combining this with a stereo ribbon for OH make sense? Say like the AEA R88.
Yeah sure. Why not.
how would you do a stero version of this? Say if I wanted to use 2 ribbons. is that just mid/side
Take the figure 8 pattern mic turned perpendicular with the mid/mono mic. Copy the fig 8 mic and hard pan 1 left and other right. Then flip polarity on whichever one you feel sounds best. Blend all 3 faders together at once. You'll hear the sound difference as you experiment with it.
What mic is this
You love the word Null/ Nulled. Beats Covid
Great video !