honestly it wouldnt matter which corvette you get, they are all great choices, the base model will for sure put a smile on your face every time you drive it. =]
Exactly. Corvettes cost upwards of 2x as much in England, and there's only 1 dealer - not a Chevy dealer - authorized to sell them. A very few places are authorized to work on them. And the figure I read was only 3 (!) ZR1's registered in the whole country. Most Brits have never seen a ZR1, almost none have ridden in one and even fewer have driven one.
The centennial edition vette is a bad ass machine. I wish I could pull the trigger on a ZO6 or ZR-1. I would be flip flopping if I was on the fence. I wouldn't track it that often if ever but passing up on 638 hp would be a hard decision to make. The ZO6 is heaven on wheels as well. If it wasn't that $80,000 that's holding me back.
Don't know what originally brought this up, but i did the Google search myself and there really are sites on the first page that mention crash testing the S7. If you move on to the next page there is a site that states that it PASSED the 35mph crash test without an airbag. So much for not being crash tested. On top of that the WHOLE car is assembled by Saleen in California. So either way you look at it, it's NOT a kit car.
In short, the reason that the S7 isn't a kit car is because the WHOLE car is assembled in one place and shipped to what ever country the buyer is located. No third-parties involved in the assembly whatsoever and that's the MAIN thing you'd look for. Cars like the Apollo have to be sold in kit form (the engine assembled by a third party) to be legal here in the states but are otherwise fully assembled. With that there shouldn't be anything left to argue about on this topic.
Like i said in a previous post most people on the U.S. can't afford a $300,000 car. It is usually better to sell a lot of cheaper more accessible cars than fewer ultra high priced cars since more people can afford them. For example the $2,400,000 Veyron took 8 years to sell 300 cars for sales totaling $720,000,000 excluding possible tax. The Z06 $70,000ish trim alone sold 26,641 units between 2006 and 2010 totaling $1,864,870,000(rounded) excluding possible tax.
All I'm saying is. Is that Saleen tried to go the legit route at first. This is the reason why they actually crash tested them. But lack of finances caught up with them and had to file the 208 exemption to avoid having to upgrade their design to accommodate airbags. And slow sales kept them in that state.
This isn't my argument, but i have to ask this question. Janusha, where in that document does it state that it exempted the S7 from crash testing altogether. It only states that it exempted it from the advanced airbag requirement along with the modifications to make that system function properly. NOT THE CRASH TESTING. Lack of an airbag is also the likely cause that the Apollo has to be sold as a kit car here. And before you go saying that it's unfair the Venom GT also went that route.
The Centennial Edition Corvette is one hell of a car. It was faster per lap than the McLaren Mp4-12C and Lamborghini Aventador around Laguna Seca. For only 100k you get a car that can last all day on the track and beat cars costing 250k and 400k.
Great video and I just subscribed. I too, started a CZcams channel for my 2019 Grand Sport. Looking forward to sharing my experiences and looking at all the content that you are posting.
I recently posted this on another thread but it's perfectly valid here. The Viper is the flagship MODEL of SRT, Which is a DIVISION of Chrysler, which is a subsidy BRAND of Fiat. Ferrari is a subsidy BRAND of Fiat. So comparing the Viper's sales (remember this is just ONE model with all of it's trim levels) to Ferrari's sales across their WHOLE MODEL line (every possible trim level for every model new or used via their warranty supported used-car program) isn't a valid comparison.
Ferrari doesn't actually pay any licencing fees to BWI to use the magnetic shocks but rather just buy them as does GM from this third-party supplier. The technology has been further developed by BWI since they took it over in 2009. They've recently developed magnetic damper mounts, for example.
I believe it's the other way around, the Cobalt has a Corvette steering wheel. The C6 has had that wheel ever since the original 2005 model. I don't think the Cobalt got it until 2007 model year. I'm not defending the parts-bin steering wheel at all, I'm just saying that it was first used in the Corvette, then handed out to all the Cobalts, Malibus and Pontiac G6s, etc.
I don't know about every country but the Corvette and imported cars in general seem to get a heavy tariff in Europe. The 2009 ZR1 which was $107,000 here was 136,000 euros the equivalent of $214,000 there, literally twice the price. That takes away a lot of the bargain factor.GM has 2 options that i know of. 1. Build a Corvette factory in Europe somewhere to avoid having to export. 2. Do like they are doing in China with their Buicks and re badge it as one of their subsidy brands for that area.
Joshua, you might better check the post that i was replying to again as you never asked a single question in it and my response was perfectly on topic for that comment. But as far as Ferrari better super cars. Yes, that's pretty much all they make. They BETTER be good at it if they want to be successful.
Also it's not like SSC pulls engines straight out of Corvettes. They order the engines and tune them their-selves. So the only difference between Pagani SSC in that regard is that SSC does their OWN tuning.
The Concord was discontinued back in 2004 and replaced by the 300C. And i don't see any pieces of the interior of the new 2013 Viper that resembles the 2013 300C let alone the 2004 Concord.
The main difference between GM and Ferrari, McLaren in this discussion is that GM had BOTH the OHV engine AND the DOHC engines and Ferrari, McLaren only had DOHC/OHC engines.
And what edge does DOHC give over OHV besides higher revs? DOHC has been around BEFORE the Chevy "small block" was developed back in the 1950's. It's nothing new. You DO get better HP per liter but at expense of engine height and weight due to an extra cam and 16 extra valves and a chain and pully. Most of what i mentioned is sitting on top the engine. Boring out an engine to increase torque and subsequently power doesn't add any weight so a 7 liter LS7 weighs about the same as a 6 liter LS6.
The lack of a VAT here could also be the culprit. If domestic manufacturers had to pay a heavy tax to import their models BACK to the U.S. this could deter them from doing things like that while protecting the jobs we have here. And a lot of large manufacturers build plants in countries to avoid VATs.But GM itself only received 49.5 billion of the bailout money and has payed back about half as of the end of 2012 by buying back their stock.The Gov't may still lose on the deal but not 100 billion.
"Pulling out ONE extreme niche track focused Porsche does little to better your point" and what is the ZR1? And That was world wide sales for the GT2 but you would need the GT2 RS to get smiler numbers to the ZR1 it has sold less as of 2012.
And the Vipers in the late 1980's and the early 1990's sold the best. But the Viper was intended to be it spiritual successor to the original Shelby Cobra. All though it wasn't quite as spartan it pretty harsh. And over the years as the price continued to rise and it got only slightly more refined that turned a lot of people "off". But i ask you. Is this 2013 Viper any more harsh than most super cars? I doubt you have even sat in one let alone driven one. But if so how is it?
-The Gumpert is a kit car here too the, Radical, and to be fair the Venom GT is also. Their chassis is manufactured outside the country and the engines installed state side but since the product is sold fully assembled it is still classified as production. But enough of that. Because this isn't really about cars. If it was you'd stick to cars wouldn't you?-
I agree that it's a loop hole as well. But just using parts out of already approved cars can't possibly substitute crash testing the assembled car. The chassis of the S7 was unique and had to be crash tested with all the components installed to get the proper assessment. Which is what they did but could have avoided if they filed for the 208 in the first place. That said, they DID just keep asking for the exemption until production ended.
So are you FINALLY saying that the SSC is a production car? I actually agree with you that the SSC has less fit and finish than most Euro exotics but it takes ALOT to RELIABLY get 1200hp out of any engine while still being drivable on the street. Remember Janusha,they need to warranty these cars.Just bolting on a pair of turbos (the turbos on the SSC are proprietary by the way )isn't going to cut it.Also a lot of their budget DID go into wind testing,after all they were trying to break a record.
He's tried everything with me too, from Porsche Vs ZR1, and his claim that SSC isn't a production car company. To his theory on the poor in America, I think at one point he even touched on gun control? It took me months for Janusha to give me any proof and when I finally got some, the conversation had long deviated from cars to hate filled rants on the USA. It never ceases to amaze me how he isn't reported and banned from CZcams let.
The Viper is a model not a brand. The trim level is SRT Viper and the Viper GTS. Just like the 911 GT3 RS and 911 GT2 RS are trim levels of the 911. The 911 IS a model and not a brand right?
The Corvette is also a model and not a manufacturer like Ferrari. Or did Corvette split from GM and became a separate manufacturer? It's still a Chevy Corvette right? Nobody is taking anything away from Ferrari but i ask you, how many different models does that 5k figure include? Is it more than 1 model?
Do i need to do over the Corvettes traversal mono leaf springs that support the Corvette's double wishbone (fully independent and very UN-TRUCK LIKE) suspension too? They are STILL using them by the way. Just give it up you've used half of this statement before. Are you running out of material yet again?
And while your at it, Ask the NHTSA to print you some proof that is S7 was NEVER crash tested. Because as of right now, i pointed you to three sites the say the S7 WAS crash tested. That's three MORE than you've shown me saying it wasn't. An airbag exemption, nor absence of a rating is solid proof of a crash test exemption.
" but at the VERY LEAST, you would expect them to be uh... government approved." Wasn't that what Saleen was asking for with the EXEMPTION of the airbag requirment? And again I'm not bestowing hero status on ANYTHING. All i was saying is that those cars were production cars (weather in kit form or otherwise). And do a lot with very little. And as far as airbags go. Don't you at the very least need to redesign the steering wheel and wiring harness? That costs money that Saleen didn't have.
You do not need to crash test 20 cars to fill out all the approved tests. In fact, i seem to remember Koenigsegg only crash testing One car because the costs were so high during construction. We've given you the data already so go run along now and find it. And get back to me when you do.
The way i see it. As long as they can reach their power targets with OHV then i really don't see the need for them to go DOHC. By the way the 4.58 liter DOHC V8 out of a 458 Italia weights only 10lbs less than a 6.2 liter supercharged LS9. There ARE some really compact and light weight DOHC engines though. The MP4-12C's V8 only weights 441lbs. About 90lbs less than the LS9 and 10lbs. less than the LS7(has no force induction)and 80lbs. less than the 458's engine. 600HP DOHC's that light are rare.
Janusha, listen S7 PASSED the 35mph crash test without the air bags if you'd bother to look. And didn't I ALSO say that A KIT CAR CAN BE A PRODUCTION CAR. And i noticed you left out the Venom GT from the list. Why is that? Because it is in the SAME boat as Gumpert and the others. The ONLY route for them to sell in the U.S. is the KIT car route(no airbag no pass). But for the millionth time THAT DOES NOT DISQUALIFY THEM FROM BEING PRODUCTION. Check the definition of PRODUCTION.
Yeah, i agree with you. In fact DOHC in Corvettes is old news as well. The LT5 I previously mentioned was the engine that powered the early to mid 90's ZR-1. And guess what? The sky didn't fall, hell didn't freeze over, and the revolution didn't start. They liked the engine intellectuals and "hillbillies" alike. But after that run they went back to OHV.
What did Saleen say that they were going to have to do if their partition was denied? Did he say that he was going to sell the car anyway with or without their approval? No. He said that he would have to IMEDIATLY stop production. Dosen't that sound like a request for government approval? So ANYBODY that applies for the 208 exemption and GETS it. Is in effect government approved. (And there goes your claim that the car WASN'T government approved out the window.)-
Janusha, Your OWN document from the Saleen's "airbag exemption partition" to the NHTSA CLEARLY states that the NHTSA acknowledged that the S7 met all applicable safety regulations except for the air bags.That's pretty hard to do without EVER crashing a car.Why don't you quote that document any more?It was good enough proof for you when it supported your claim that it WASN'T crash tested.Why disregard it now?Is it NOW invalid as it is proven to actually go AGAINST your claim. Was it EVER valid?-
And why would GM abandon all of their DOHC V8's especially the LT5 that was initially well received if DOHC is so good? I can also answer question with another question.
About 95lbs. You feel the hp difference accelerating around the track, but it's not huge. Any of those cars are more capable than most of the people who'll be driving them.
The OHC and DOHC lay out are almost as old as OHV. It ISN'T new in fact Ferrari made their first car in 1947 and it had OHC this was about 10 years BEFORE Chevy developed their "small block". DOHC is working just fine for Ferrari. So yes, they haven't shown interest. But GM DID show interest in DOHC and hired Lotus to build as DOHC V8 around their basic architecture. The LT5 was born and a lot of what they learned from it they applied to their LT1.
Or back when it was a dodge instead of SRT it was the RT10 and GTS before the last two generations ware it was just sold as a roadster or coupe variant.
With all do respect.What NORMALLY happens when there is a recession or depression?People lose their jobs in which people lose their homes and anything they have on credit. Industry suddenly sees a drop in sales(may be more in certain ones than others The auto industry was hardest for us). And social relief programs are put under more strain (this is contrary to what Janusha is saying as we DO have social aide programs like unemployment aid and SOCIAL security).This isn't only happening in the US
OK Janusha, Since you FINALLY went on the record and said that you read the Document. I can NOW ask you questions about it and you SHOULD be able to answer. (remember this document proves your right and I'm wrong so there is no need to refuse to answer.) I already know what the 208 exemption is.(occupant crash protection) but I'm asking you WHY did Saleen apply for it (hint: It WASN'T to avoid crash testing.) Cough ..."airbags"...... cough.-
And with all the increases on spending. The sales price of the Viper will enviably increase as well. In other words it will sell like a $300,000 car here and a $600,000 car in parts of Europe thanks to how they tax there. So it would do more harm than good because contrary to what you think very few people here can afford to pay $300,000 for a car.
The second question is: Under "The Agency's Findings" part of the document. Should be close to the bottom. What does the last sentence in their statement say? I want a DIRECT quot of what it says. Not ANY interpretation, JUST THEIR EXACT WORDS....... I remember something about it meeting some safety regulations...... And after that explain to me how is it possible for them to come to that conclusion WITHOUT a SINGLE crash test-.
And your forgetting that the only document that he claims as proof doesn't even mention that is was exempted from crash testing altogether. Just the need of airbags. If he would have thoroughly read that document BEFORE claiming he had proof that it was never crash tested he would have realized that this VERY document said that the S7 complied with ALL OTHER FEDERAL REGULATIONS. So it does more harm than good for his case.
The SLS has NOTHING to do with this. I showed you sites that said the S7 was crash tested, quoted those sites, and pointed out that the NHTSA acknowledged it met all applicable regulations minus the airbag......On the very document you claimed supported the idea that it wasn't government approved at all. What MORE so i need to do? Janusha, you could easily solve this problem once and for all by simply calling the NHTSA and asking them what's the deal. But you just can't do it can you.
"But you dodged my question..." Auh...No i didn't. Not only did i tell you that i straight up didn't know why the S7 isn't in the data base (something you aren't capable of doing) but i gave you instructions on what you need to do to find out. And asking ME the exact same question AGAIN wasn't one of them. So if you REALLY want your question answered (I doubt you do though) , stop complaining, pick up the phone and call Saleen or the NHTSA and ask THEM.
And I'm not referring to the emissions and fuel consumption taxes as those are reasonable. I'm talking about the useless displacement tax (seemingly aimed at he U.S. market as i can find no other use for it) and the power tax. Fuel consumption and emissions is what it all boils down to anyway. Why should you be penalized if you have a car that has a 10liter V8, makes over 1000HP yet still averages 30mpg and near zero emissions? If such a car existed you should be rewarded for having it.
ALL I was disputing was if the S7 ever crash tested and if it and the other cars were production. THAT IS ALL. And the last statement I QUOTED FROM YOU (it's one of the only things i agree with you about by the way). Notice the quotation marks? YOU said that not me. And the links i sent you still work. All you have to do is READ. Prove it S7 wasn't ever crash tested or you don't have an argument. It's that simple.
Janusha, if all you're going to do is ask the same question over and over. Then why not call it quits on this topic. Because I see no end to this game of a million questions. I already told you the benefits and short comings of a OHV layout. As of right now the OHV layout suits their needs best and seeing as you can do anything to a OHV that you can do to a DOHC i don't see what the fuss is about.
It certainly isn't to "disprove myths" like you claim as you spread MORE myths than you disprove. But you DO know FULL well it will attract opposition. And THAT is what you're REALLY looking for. I'm all for freedom of speech but just like you have a right to disagree with them THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH YOU. But you have NEVER ended an argument by respecting that right. You are ALWAYS right and ANY American that disagrees is a flag-waver. -This ends my rant-
If Hennessy Performance and SSC were to ever get bought out by a large car company like Ford or GM. Or if they start attracting very wealthy investors and become capable of financing more advanced projects...... And are STILL rolling out kit cars. THEN you may have an argument. Till then things are going to stay the way they are. For better or worst. So you'd save yourself a lot of frustration if you'd just get used to it.
And i hardly think the Aventador shoot flames out of it's exhaust just to "Look Cool" The Aventadors engine is hard tuned with an aggressive cam timing and a high compression ratio.
I love corvettes (im from europe btw). And i love late gen american sportscars, which improved alot in handeling, gj americans, now fix that interior and ure on the top!
This greatly closed the gap between their LT1 and LT5. And GM made the decision to go BACK to pushrods. This happened again with the 32valve North Star V8. I really don't see what the fuss is about seeing as BOTH are old tech. DOHC allows more flexibility in the design, as well as higher revs and HP per liter. OHV offers better packaging for a more compact engine so OHV's aren't as tall and don't weigh as much per liter. Just a different means to an end. I don't see either as Inferior
Here in 2021 and the C6's still look look great. I'd take one of these over a C7.
I’ve had 4 C6 Vettes, they are wonderful vehicles, good daily drivers and fun vehicles.
Great video guys, i enjoyed it. I Must say the Z06 is my personal favourite 427 all the way baby!
one of the best corvette videos on the planet earth
honestly it wouldnt matter which corvette you get, they are all great choices, the base model will for sure put a smile on your face every time you drive it. =]
Exactly. Corvettes cost upwards of 2x as much in England, and there's only 1 dealer - not a Chevy dealer - authorized to sell them. A very few places are authorized to work on them. And the figure I read was only 3 (!) ZR1's registered in the whole country. Most Brits have never seen a ZR1, almost none have ridden in one and even fewer have driven one.
The centennial edition vette is a bad ass machine. I wish I could pull the trigger on a ZO6 or ZR-1. I would be flip flopping if I was on the fence. I wouldn't track it that often if ever but passing up on 638 hp would be a hard decision to make. The ZO6 is heaven on wheels as well. If it wasn't that $80,000 that's holding me back.
theres not enough like buttons ... or should put a love button up there ... I drooled during the entire video .... just amazing machines ...
Don't know what originally brought this up, but i did the Google search myself and there really are sites on the first page that mention crash testing the S7. If you move on to the next page there is a site that states that it PASSED the 35mph crash test without an airbag. So much for not being crash tested. On top of that the WHOLE car is assembled by Saleen in California. So either way you look at it, it's NOT a kit car.
In short, the reason that the S7 isn't a kit car is because the WHOLE car is assembled in one place and shipped to what ever country the buyer is located. No third-parties involved in the assembly whatsoever and that's the MAIN thing you'd look for. Cars like the Apollo have to be sold in kit form (the engine assembled by a third party) to be legal here in the states but are otherwise fully assembled. With that there shouldn't be anything left to argue about on this topic.
Like i said in a previous post most people on the U.S. can't afford a $300,000 car. It is usually better to sell a lot of cheaper more accessible cars than fewer ultra high priced cars since more people can afford them. For example the $2,400,000 Veyron took 8 years to sell 300 cars for sales totaling $720,000,000 excluding possible tax. The Z06 $70,000ish trim alone sold 26,641 units between 2006 and 2010 totaling $1,864,870,000(rounded) excluding possible tax.
All I'm saying is. Is that Saleen tried to go the legit route at first. This is the reason why they actually crash tested them. But lack of finances caught up with them and had to file the 208 exemption to avoid having to upgrade their design to accommodate airbags. And slow sales kept them in that state.
This isn't my argument, but i have to ask this question. Janusha, where in that document does it state that it exempted the S7 from crash testing altogether. It only states that it exempted it from the advanced airbag requirement along with the modifications to make that system function properly. NOT THE CRASH TESTING. Lack of an airbag is also the likely cause that the Apollo has to be sold as a kit car here. And before you go saying that it's unfair the Venom GT also went that route.
The Centennial Edition Corvette is one hell of a car. It was faster per lap than the McLaren Mp4-12C and Lamborghini Aventador around Laguna Seca. For only 100k you get a car that can last all day on the track and beat cars costing 250k and 400k.
Great video and I just subscribed. I too, started a CZcams channel for my 2019 Grand Sport. Looking forward to sharing my experiences and looking at all the content that you are posting.
GM has made powerful OHC engines. There are several reasons for staying with pushrods in the Corvette.
they're put together really well because Australia designed them and builds them, you're welcome.
I recently posted this on another thread but it's perfectly valid here. The Viper is the flagship MODEL of SRT, Which is a DIVISION of Chrysler, which is a subsidy BRAND of Fiat. Ferrari is a subsidy BRAND of Fiat. So comparing the Viper's sales (remember this is just ONE model with all of it's trim levels) to Ferrari's sales across their WHOLE MODEL line (every possible trim level for every model new or used via their warranty supported used-car program) isn't a valid comparison.
Ferrari doesn't actually pay any licencing fees to BWI to use the magnetic shocks but rather just buy them as does GM from this third-party supplier. The technology has been further developed by BWI since they took it over in 2009. They've recently developed magnetic damper mounts, for example.
oh yeh, ..actually im saving up all my money for a grand sport corvette c6 (:
I believe it's the other way around, the Cobalt has a Corvette steering wheel. The C6 has had that wheel ever since the original 2005 model. I don't think the Cobalt got it until 2007 model year.
I'm not defending the parts-bin steering wheel at all, I'm just saying that it was first used in the Corvette, then handed out to all the Cobalts, Malibus and Pontiac G6s, etc.
Z06!
I don't know about every country but the Corvette and imported cars in general seem to get a heavy tariff in Europe. The 2009 ZR1 which was $107,000 here was 136,000 euros the equivalent of $214,000 there, literally twice the price. That takes away a lot of the bargain factor.GM has 2 options that i know of.
1. Build a Corvette factory in Europe somewhere to avoid having to export.
2. Do like they are doing in China with their Buicks and re badge it as one of their subsidy brands for that area.
Joshua, you might better check the post that i was replying to again as you never asked a single question in it and my response was perfectly on topic for that comment. But as far as Ferrari better super cars. Yes, that's pretty much all they make. They BETTER be good at it if they want to be successful.
Also it's not like SSC pulls engines straight out of Corvettes. They order the engines and tune them their-selves. So the only difference between Pagani SSC in that regard is that SSC does their OWN tuning.
You have to hear the 2011 or newer Z06 flat out. Wonderful!!
The Concord was discontinued back in 2004 and replaced by the 300C. And i don't see any pieces of the interior of the new 2013 Viper that resembles the 2013 300C let alone the 2004 Concord.
I like how you think it's a problem of some kind.
Grandsports convetibles did not have a dry sump unfortunately
Agreed Z06 all the way. Bigger displacement is all that matters and lighter too boot.
You nailed that on the button. Throw a tune and a cold air on the vette by by mustang.
The main difference between GM and Ferrari, McLaren in this discussion is that GM had BOTH the OHV engine AND the DOHC engines and Ferrari, McLaren only had DOHC/OHC engines.
Like is said before, this is what he does. Anything to keep the argument going, lie, change topic, copy/paste. "Win" by any means necessary.
And what edge does DOHC give over OHV besides higher revs? DOHC has been around BEFORE the Chevy "small block" was developed back in the 1950's. It's nothing new. You DO get better HP per liter but at expense of engine height and weight due to an extra cam and 16 extra valves and a chain and pully. Most of what i mentioned is sitting on top the engine. Boring out an engine to increase torque and subsequently power doesn't add any weight so a 7 liter LS7 weighs about the same as a 6 liter LS6.
The lack of a VAT here could also be the culprit. If domestic manufacturers had to pay a heavy tax to import their models BACK to the U.S. this could deter them from doing things like that while protecting the jobs we have here. And a lot of large manufacturers build plants in countries to avoid VATs.But GM itself only received 49.5 billion of the bailout money and has payed back about half as of the end of 2012 by buying back their stock.The Gov't may still lose on the deal but not 100 billion.
Ever look closely at Camaros? No you haven't. Those things are put together really well.
"Pulling out ONE extreme niche track focused Porsche does little to better your point" and what is the ZR1? And That was world wide sales for the GT2 but you would need the GT2 RS to get smiler numbers to the ZR1 it has sold less as of 2012.
And the Vipers in the late 1980's and the early 1990's sold the best. But the Viper was intended to be it spiritual successor to the original Shelby Cobra. All though it wasn't quite as spartan it pretty harsh. And over the years as the price continued to rise and it got only slightly more refined that turned a lot of people "off". But i ask you. Is this 2013 Viper any more harsh than most super cars? I doubt you have even sat in one let alone driven one. But if so how is it?
-The Gumpert is a kit car here too the, Radical, and to be fair the Venom GT is also. Their chassis is manufactured outside the country and the engines installed state side but since the product is sold fully assembled it is still classified as production. But enough of that. Because this isn't really about cars. If it was you'd stick to cars wouldn't you?-
I agree that it's a loop hole as well. But just using parts out of already approved cars can't possibly substitute crash testing the assembled car. The chassis of the S7 was unique and had to be crash tested with all the components installed to get the proper assessment. Which is what they did but could have avoided if they filed for the 208 in the first place. That said, they DID just keep asking for the exemption until production ended.
I agree, Z06 is my choice too!
So are you FINALLY saying that the SSC is a production car? I actually agree with you that the SSC has less fit and finish than most Euro exotics but it takes ALOT to RELIABLY get 1200hp out of any engine while still being drivable on the street. Remember Janusha,they need to warranty these cars.Just bolting on a pair of turbos (the turbos on the SSC are proprietary by the way )isn't going to cut it.Also a lot of their budget DID go into wind testing,after all they were trying to break a record.
Great cars!
He's tried everything with me too, from Porsche Vs ZR1, and his claim that SSC isn't a production car company. To his theory on the poor in America, I think at one point he even touched on gun control? It took me months for Janusha to give me any proof and when I finally got some, the conversation had long deviated from cars to hate filled rants on the USA. It never ceases to amaze me how he isn't reported and banned from CZcams let.
The Viper is a model not a brand. The trim level is SRT Viper and the Viper GTS. Just like the 911 GT3 RS and 911 GT2 RS are trim levels of the 911. The 911 IS a model and not a brand right?
The Corvette is also a model and not a manufacturer like Ferrari. Or did Corvette split from GM and became a separate manufacturer? It's still a Chevy Corvette right? Nobody is taking anything away from Ferrari but i ask you, how many different models does that 5k figure include? Is it more than 1 model?
America, Baby!
I think the HHR also has the same wheel to.
Yeah, noticed that a while back. But I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. As I can't prove anything.
Yep. Also in the Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky and Pontiac G8. Probably would've made it into the GTO if it hadn't been killed off.
I cannot believe i just read that entire argument four months in the making. My brain hurts lol.
Do i need to do over the Corvettes traversal mono leaf springs that support the Corvette's double wishbone (fully independent and very UN-TRUCK LIKE) suspension too? They are STILL using them by the way. Just give it up you've used half of this statement before. Are you running out of material yet again?
And while your at it, Ask the NHTSA to print you some proof that is S7 was NEVER crash tested. Because as of right now, i pointed you to three sites the say the S7 WAS crash tested. That's three MORE than you've shown me saying it wasn't. An airbag exemption, nor absence of a rating is solid proof of a crash test exemption.
i wish these cars wernt so flimsy but i love them
" but at the VERY LEAST, you would expect them to be uh... government approved." Wasn't that what Saleen was asking for with the EXEMPTION of the airbag requirment? And again I'm not bestowing hero status on ANYTHING. All i was saying is that those cars were production cars (weather in kit form or otherwise). And do a lot with very little. And as far as airbags go. Don't you at the very least need to redesign the steering wheel and wiring harness? That costs money that Saleen didn't have.
You do not need to crash test 20 cars to fill out all the approved tests. In fact, i seem to remember Koenigsegg only crash testing One car because the costs were so high during construction. We've given you the data already so go run along now and find it. And get back to me when you do.
my Dad just bought a 2012 grand sport :D
The way i see it. As long as they can reach their power targets with OHV then i really don't see the need for them to go DOHC. By the way the 4.58 liter DOHC V8 out of a 458 Italia weights only 10lbs less than a 6.2 liter supercharged LS9. There ARE some really compact and light weight DOHC engines though. The MP4-12C's V8 only weights 441lbs. About 90lbs less than the LS9 and 10lbs. less than the LS7(has no force induction)and 80lbs. less than the 458's engine. 600HP DOHC's that light are rare.
Janusha, listen S7 PASSED the 35mph crash test without the air bags if you'd bother to look. And didn't I ALSO say that A KIT CAR CAN BE A PRODUCTION CAR. And i noticed you left out the Venom GT from the list. Why is that? Because it is in the SAME boat as Gumpert and the others. The ONLY route for them to sell in the U.S. is the KIT car route(no airbag no pass). But for the millionth time THAT DOES NOT DISQUALIFY THEM FROM BEING PRODUCTION. Check the definition of PRODUCTION.
Is that Anthony Jeselnik narrating?
not enough, he has the right to remain silent but not the ability.
Yeah, i agree with you. In fact DOHC in Corvettes is old news as well. The LT5 I previously mentioned was the engine that powered the early to mid 90's ZR-1. And guess what? The sky didn't fall, hell didn't freeze over, and the revolution didn't start. They liked the engine intellectuals and "hillbillies" alike. But after that run they went back to OHV.
What did Saleen say that they were going to have to do if their partition was denied? Did he say that he was going to sell the car anyway with or without their approval? No. He said that he would have to IMEDIATLY stop production. Dosen't that sound like a request for government approval? So ANYBODY that applies for the 208 exemption and GETS it. Is in effect government approved. (And there goes your claim that the car WASN'T government approved out the window.)-
Janusha, Your OWN document from the Saleen's "airbag exemption partition" to the NHTSA CLEARLY states that the NHTSA acknowledged that the S7 met all applicable safety regulations except for the air bags.That's pretty hard to do without EVER crashing a car.Why don't you quote that document any more?It was good enough proof for you when it supported your claim that it WASN'T crash tested.Why disregard it now?Is it NOW invalid as it is proven to actually go AGAINST your claim. Was it EVER valid?-
And why would GM abandon all of their DOHC V8's especially the LT5 that was initially well received if DOHC is so good? I can also answer question with another question.
cool vid, Corvette&Viper FTW
About 95lbs. You feel the hp difference accelerating around the track, but it's not huge. Any of those cars are more capable than most of the people who'll be driving them.
The OHC and DOHC lay out are almost as old as OHV. It ISN'T new in fact Ferrari made their first car in 1947 and it had OHC this was about 10 years BEFORE Chevy developed their "small block". DOHC is working just fine for Ferrari. So yes, they haven't shown interest. But GM DID show interest in DOHC and hired Lotus to build as DOHC V8 around their basic architecture. The LT5 was born and a lot of what they learned from it they applied to their LT1.
Or back when it was a dodge instead of SRT it was the RT10 and GTS before the last two generations ware it was just sold as a roadster or coupe variant.
With all do respect.What NORMALLY happens when there is a recession or depression?People lose their jobs in which people lose their homes and anything they have on credit. Industry suddenly sees a drop in sales(may be more in certain ones than others The auto industry was hardest for us). And social relief programs are put under more strain (this is contrary to what Janusha is saying as we DO have social aide programs like unemployment aid and SOCIAL security).This isn't only happening in the US
OK Janusha, Since you FINALLY went on the record and said that you read the Document. I can NOW ask you questions about it and you SHOULD be able to answer. (remember this document proves your right and I'm wrong so there is no need to refuse to answer.) I already know what the 208 exemption is.(occupant crash protection) but I'm asking you WHY did Saleen apply for it (hint: It WASN'T to avoid crash testing.) Cough ..."airbags"...... cough.-
And with all the increases on spending. The sales price of the Viper will enviably increase as well. In other words it will sell like a $300,000 car here and a $600,000 car in parts of Europe thanks to how they tax there. So it would do more harm than good because contrary to what you think very few people here can afford to pay $300,000 for a car.
The second question is: Under "The Agency's Findings" part of the document. Should be close to the bottom. What does the last sentence in their statement say? I want a DIRECT quot of what it says. Not ANY interpretation, JUST THEIR EXACT WORDS....... I remember something about it meeting some safety regulations...... And after that explain to me how is it possible for them to come to that conclusion WITHOUT a SINGLE crash test-.
ive got corvette fever for that zr1 !
How much more does the ZR1 weight over the Z06? It's gotta be mighty difficult for the Z06 to make up for that 133 HP gap only in the corners.
And your forgetting that the only document that he claims as proof doesn't even mention that is was exempted from crash testing altogether. Just the need of airbags. If he would have thoroughly read that document BEFORE claiming he had proof that it was never crash tested he would have realized that this VERY document said that the S7 complied with ALL OTHER FEDERAL REGULATIONS. So it does more harm than good for his case.
The SLS has NOTHING to do with this. I showed you sites that said the S7 was crash tested, quoted those sites, and pointed out that the NHTSA acknowledged it met all applicable regulations minus the airbag......On the very document you claimed supported the idea that it wasn't government approved at all. What MORE so i need to do? Janusha, you could easily solve this problem once and for all by simply calling the NHTSA and asking them what's the deal. But you just can't do it can you.
"But you dodged my question..." Auh...No i didn't. Not only did i tell you that i straight up didn't know why the S7 isn't in the data base (something you aren't capable of doing) but i gave you instructions on what you need to do to find out. And asking ME the exact same question AGAIN wasn't one of them. So if you REALLY want your question answered (I doubt you do though) , stop complaining, pick up the phone and call Saleen or the NHTSA and ask THEM.
P.S. sorry for the double post.
And I'm not referring to the emissions and fuel consumption taxes as those are reasonable. I'm talking about the useless displacement tax (seemingly aimed at he U.S. market as i can find no other use for it) and the power tax. Fuel consumption and emissions is what it all boils down to anyway. Why should you be penalized if you have a car that has a 10liter V8, makes over 1000HP yet still averages 30mpg and near zero emissions? If such a car existed you should be rewarded for having it.
Corvettes are my favorite cars, but whats wrong with mustangs?
How is that a problem?
ALL I was disputing was if the S7 ever crash tested and if it and the other cars were production. THAT IS ALL. And the last statement I QUOTED FROM YOU (it's one of the only things i agree with you about by the way). Notice the quotation marks? YOU said that not me. And the links i sent you still work. All you have to do is READ. Prove it S7 wasn't ever crash tested or you don't have an argument. It's that simple.
I like all of them but how much time you gonna spend on the track ?? ZR1....!
proves its a small world
Janusha, if all you're going to do is ask the same question over and over. Then why not call it quits on this topic. Because I see no end to this game of a million questions. I already told you the benefits and short comings of a OHV layout. As of right now the OHV layout suits their needs best and seeing as you can do anything to a OHV that you can do to a DOHC i don't see what the fuss is about.
It certainly isn't to "disprove myths" like you claim as you spread MORE myths than you disprove. But you DO know FULL well it will attract opposition. And THAT is what you're REALLY looking for.
I'm all for freedom of speech but just like you have a right to disagree with them THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH YOU. But you have NEVER ended an argument by respecting that right. You are ALWAYS right and ANY American that disagrees is a flag-waver. -This ends my rant-
z06 rocks!!!!!!!
ZR1 baby yea !
If Hennessy Performance and SSC were to ever get bought out by a large car company like Ford or GM. Or if they start attracting very wealthy investors and become capable of financing more advanced projects...... And are STILL rolling out kit cars. THEN you may have an argument. Till then things are going to stay the way they are. For better or worst. So you'd save yourself a lot of frustration if you'd just get used to it.
And i hardly think the Aventador shoot flames out of it's exhaust just to "Look Cool" The Aventadors engine is hard tuned with an aggressive cam timing and a high compression ratio.
sweet good stuff
I'm sure it has sold less... the c7 is almost out and they've been expecting it.
Zr1 has far more performance potential being supercharged to easily make up the 200lb weight difference.
So WAS OR WASN'T THE S7 CRASH TESTED. Yes or no.
I love corvettes (im from europe btw).
And i love late gen american sportscars, which improved alot in handeling, gj americans, now fix that interior and ure on the top!
who on gods earth would dislike this video?? what the hell is wrong with people?
Listen, it is NEVER OKAY to compare a whole manufacturer's sales to the sales of a SINGLE MODEL. No matter what the price range is. IT ISN'T VALID.
This greatly closed the gap between their LT1 and LT5. And GM made the decision to go BACK to pushrods. This happened again with the 32valve North Star V8. I really don't see what the fuss is about seeing as BOTH are old tech. DOHC allows more flexibility in the design, as well as higher revs and HP per liter. OHV offers better packaging for a more compact engine so OHV's aren't as tall and don't weigh as much per liter. Just a different means to an end. I don't see either as Inferior
NICE.