I feel like this is a high level explanation. I’ve been a manager, now an owner, and I have honestly never heard this situation explained like this. I really appreciate this video. Standing by to get some.
JackDL92 As a manager I’ve learned this in my own after about 5 out of 10 years of doing so, although I’ve never been able to simplify the concept so well to others. Therefore this will be great to implement to my fellow managers, instead of us falling into old bad habits of playing the blame game when we know damn well we may have not given Bill the tools to succeed etc.
A justiça não tá respondendo mas meter fogo na casa do banner do bucho vou começar começar já comecei pelas outras vou começar na casa dele já passei a mensagem para todos se tiver alguém por perto chegaram perto invadir meter fogo quem na casa do banco aqui na casa do bucho vai queimando vai queimando senhor estiver deixa ele lá dentro não precisa tirar eles não se estiver lá dentro para mim tanto faz tô nem aí Eu esperei a justiça resolveu Esperei a justiça cumprido com frio Eu falei que eu ia reagir e já comecei fechar o circo e vou fechar o circo passar mesmo o circo tá fechado e não vai Discar para nenhum se não confessaram não colocar ele na cadeia pode ter certeza que o circo tá fechado já
Obama para o bucho palavra Sampaio para love you todos aqueles que estão contra mim me condenaram quiser me matar me massacraram eu nunca vou ser bom nunca para isso que eu tenho para eles é fogo para eles todos aqueles que são inimigo meu eu só tenho fogo para eles agora aqueles que são amigo meu que estiveram ao meu lado vai estar sempre protegido por que eu nunca vou atacar eles porque eles me defenderam me apoiaram me respeitaram Por que que o fim deles Esses são meus amigos Esses são minha família agora esses que estão me atacando e me ofendendo se achando que é dono do mundo eu vou mostrar para eles que ele não é dono da casa dele por isso que eu mandei meter fogo na casa dele que ele é dono nem da casa dele ele não é bom nem do rabo dele quanto mais da casa quanto mais do mundo das pessoas eu vou mostrar eu vou mostrar para ele que eu fiquei na casa dele e vou quebrar eu tô dando a minha palavra eu estou dando a minha palavra
É une todas as forças com todas as autoridades e vocês são de prova que une todas as forças com todas as autoridades colaborei direto mais de meses e quase dois meses dois meses ou mais muito mais de dois meses essa luta e eles não fazia nada então vou começar a queimar as casa dele para ver se eles vão resolver ou não vai se eles vão prender os caras não vão quero ver se a justiça não vai prender a justiça não prender o comércio matar eles
Se eu faço se eu estou com o pessoal do bem eu sou louco sou demônio sou criticado se eu estou com as pessoas me defendendo eu sou louco sou condenado Sim eu estou me protegendo eu sou condenado Então você é louco de uma vez Então já você é louco de uma vez já vou reagir fazendo o que eu tenho que fazer De toda forma estou me criticando se eu estou junto com os evangélico eu sou demônio se eu estou junto com os angélicos e você sabe eu sou criticado como demônio então o que que eles querem na minha vida que que eles querem porque que ele se incomoda com a minha vida então vai aguentar agora começou a queimar as casas de todos eles agora vão ser vou queimar as casa dele porque eu tô conversando que eu vou queimar não
I was never Willink to ever take responsibility for somebody else's mistake at work but now I will Echo these sentiments to my co workers. Thanks guys!
Very well spoken, and greatly debated, the level of thought put into this discussion between the two of you is fantastic to watch. CZcams needs more content like this, cheers mates!
YES! Exactly! How can we turn around and blame our kid when we as parents are completely responsible for her/his mistakes, behavior and well being. Great point
Good evening. YES. Awesome lesson in 15 minutes. Great example of blame and fault and responsibility and teams and Extreme Ownership in practice. Mistakes happen all the time - we are all human. Solve one problem, another problem comes up - all part of continuous improvement. Jocko also addresses -- the "Difficult Discussion" -- when the time comes.
What I understand from my disembodied brain point of view: When others make mistakes on your team that lead into a problem, Own the problem Come up with a solution Implement the solution and own the implementation!
I had this problem with a colleague. I was responsible for teaching her the procedures and I did so many times and watched over her and made sure she knew what was going on and had a "ask me anything policy". Constantly, I would ask her if she was ok and understood etc. She would say yes, I got this. Well, lo and behold she would constantly make mistakes and I would explain things to her time and time again and she just would make the same mistakes. When I had to report to my team leader, I would take ownership of the problem (without knowing that this was a concept-I am just responsible for my actions) and she would NOT or she would blame me. I told her she needed to take responsibility for her work and her mistakes. So, I started NOT trusting her or her work and would have to double-check everything, which was a waste of time. Eventually, she got fired. At what point, after going through all the checks and taking ownership on your end, do you tell someone to take ownership on their end? I think this girl just didn't understand what it meant to take ownership and saw that I was and shirked her own ownership until I told her to do so. I think some people just don't get what ownership is, in general.
It could have been that she felt unqualified but had a can do attitude. Maybe she was scared to ask questions because she thought she would look bad. Then again some people just don't care and some are too arrogant to ask questions.
I am a Facilities Manager at an aerospace and defense manufacturer, I worked to this position over 10 years of clawing my way up from cleaning parts and mopping floors. I recently had a 3 year old criminal case come back up and could end up doing the next couple years in prison. I have spent the last few years fixing my wrongs, paying off debts, rebuilding relationships, ect. I am still acting manager and working to prep my team to function without me. Through this extremely difficult time of letting down my son, my pregnant wife, and my entire workplace I have religiously listened to Jocko and tried to implement some of his leadership and ownership tactics into my own life, and though it probably wont change the outcome, it has changed the path. I have been able to maintain my relationships through this and am confident it will endure. Thank you for all you contribute and all you have sacrificed for us all.
You explained it well. At least you did in the book. I knew what you were going to say to this, and it was good reinforcement as I get set to teach my students how to properly operate as a team in group projects.
That pesky ego, always building its self up at the expense of everyone else. I love the concept of extreme ownership, and it works where there is life and death on the battlefield. The unspoken truth is, I would want my fellow team mates to be willing to put it ALL on the line for me if I found myself in a terrible situation, and they would also know that I would do the same for them. Everywhere else its just one up man-ship and pesky ego must not die on this hill today.
Another element to this is that people, 99% of the time, have clear reasons for their actions. Taking ownership for the situation and correcting what allowed the person to make the wrong decision helps them make better decisions in the future. Thank you, Jocko. This has helped me understand this concept even more.
This lesson right here is one of the hardest you will even learn in your life. It is such a bitter lesson to learn especially if it is over something that is the slightest technicality or an extremely small detail that would take lawyer type exploitation to recognize, and even worse that small thing happens at the wrong time to cause a result that's worse than the actual offense. Mind you these lessons don't happen all that often but man do they suck when they come along. You will feel defenseless and powerless because you will feel like you made all the right moves, did all the right things, took all the right precautions to still have a bad result, and at the end of the day, when you do the math, and the math doesnt lie, it especially hurts when your heart was in the right place only to find you missed one tiny detail.
Jocko Willink is explaining how and why it's so important and helpful not to blame an individual on a team even when someone else is at fault. It's true that it's important to help the person who completely drops the ball or makes the mistake. If the person is having trouble understanding something. What Jocko Willink is saying that if someone is making mistakes and isn't capable of doing a job it's because the person hasn't been shown the correct way to do things it will not help. What is important is to have everyone on a team take responsibility. Then fix, correct, remedy and solve the problematic issue.
It's true when a team takes extreme ownership: everyone is responsible, everyone takes ownership, and everyone tries to fix the problems. That said, some problems should be prioritized to solve because some problems are larger than others.
I have a question that I really struggled with for five months a year back: I was a new middle manager when an old upper manager was 'teaching' me responsibility. He would say, "you're the leader, you are fully responsible for what happens, so when something goes wrong, it is your fault," to which I would think, "but you're my leader, does that not mean you are responsible too?" and he would reply, "no, you are responsible for not seeking out my leadership when you needed to,". But the truth was that he was just a bad leader and needed to blame people to save face to his superiors. I was a scape goat, but he used this honest leadership fact to support it. It got worse when I took up initiative and compensated for his lack of leadership, but then he took it as insubordination. We got caught in a vicious cycle of "good leaders take full responsibility," "but you are taking no responsibility, that makes you a bad leader, I have to lead then," "stop usurping me! Follow my orders!" I follow orders, but things go wrong because he is a bad leader, "it is all your fault". The feedback loop broke when I followed an order I knew would be catastrophic and when the blame came I just shrugged my shoulders and said "just followed orders,". I was then transferred. How could that have been handled better? Especially if there wasn't a way out?
Look for "leading up the chain of command" you'll find some Jocko's videos about it, I think there is an entire chapter in Extreme Ownership too, this is going to be a much better answer that what I can write here ina comment 😉
As a 30 year old my biggest life regret is not joining the military and I did not join because of my background and tattoos at the time. Being able to learn from these guys and apply it to my life now has been life changing. It's as if I am getting the training I always wish I got.
"But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” 23And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”
Bill was blamed for mucking up Step 4? GOOD. Now the team has an opportunity to learn about extreme ownership. Finding who is at fault is useful if you're looking at pinning the blame on individuals. Bearing responsibility for fixing the problem is what the team, especially its leaders, need to be concerned with.
I have no possibility to listen to this podcast right now but from my own experience there is always point in every situation which is influenced one way or another by us. Sometimes finding this subtle link is very difficult because there is often distance in time ora/and space. Sometimes we have not enough information to know our involvement (for example we said something to somebody causing certain string of actions. When this string comes back to us we are not able to recognise the asociation). None the less everything influencing in bad or good way our lives must be carried by us and there is no escape. No matter of the cause. Pushing responsibility at something/somebody else do not solve any problem. At all. Its simple.
Meaning everyone... the leader and the team take ownership of the problem. Then work together by helping each other get the problem solved, fixed and put to an end.
@12:25 @EchoCharles -maybe the confusion is simply, MULTIPLE truths can exist at once. Everyone is at fault in some way, everyone needs to own their part of it, & everyone is responsible for implementing their solution, all at the same time. The option to blame is never an option.
In my view when you have a failure in your team the team is always at fault. It doesn’t matter individually what happened because of a systematic failure in the team. The most important thing is to never let it happen again.
If I understand correctly, it's that everyone is at fault. But your job as an individual is to identify what your fault is, what you could have done better, and bring your solution to the team. It's that you always could have done better. Even if that guy messed up, you could have done something to prevent that guy from messing up. My one question, and I think where people get caught, is the line between the guy you can help and the guy you can't. When do you keep training a guy, and when do you give up on him and remove him from the situation. And what if you don't have the power to remove the guy from the situation, but he's hopeless and you have explored everything in your power to help him. All of your resources are being consumed by a guy who just doesn't make the cut, but he won't get fired because he's the boss' son or something. You are overworked and need to be on your shit, but that guy keeps failing whenever you leave him alone. I think the edges of this are where people get caught.
...I've been Bill too many times. And I always feel absolutely terrible for letting everyone down. I think, if I had that much support from any of my jobs, I would push everything I have into it instead of getting panic attacks when they ask for reports...
Thats a cute answer but eventually you will have to address the individuals mistake. You can assume blame etc...by association, lack of training etc... but sooner or later each person does need to assume responsability. By always taking on the Team Responsability attitude you are punishing those who do things right vrs those who dont choose to care or change because they are never directly held accountable. RACI (Responsability-Accountability-Consulted-Informed)...
I get what Jocko is saying, even if there is a malevolence in your team of someone TRYING to screw up, or is so incompetent that they cannot perform the task, you as the leader are responsible for bringing that individual on your team, not seeing that and giving them responsibility. The idea of extreme ownership is most fruitful in a team of people who believe in extreme ownership because it’s not one person’s fault, it’s the entire team’s fault but everyone is dealing with themselves on what they need to do to fix it and the whole team is made better. Another way Echo could put it in the end is the machine gunner physically did the movement and action that was considered the mistake by others, but to him it was not a mistake in the moment. Him not knowing it wasn’t a mistake is the leaders fault and that mistake is just end result of the leader making mistakes further down the chain and now it’s just showing up in an obvious way.
Do you take ownership/responsibility for someone else's malevolent actions? If others take ownership for evil perpetrated with full intent, you justify/excuse their actions.
Yes and no. Take Criminals who were insane due to being abused growing up. There are criminals who have been abused growing up, had child services and law enforcement called on their behalf multiple times only to be put back into the abusive household each time. That is an instance where society had a chance to protect a vulnerable person from conditions that WE KNOW are likely to lead to criminal behavior in the in adulthood. While that's not a free pass the criminal who was abused growing up, there was something society could have done to protect that kid and therefore that Kid's victims when he/she grows up. There certainly are criminals who have no one to blame but themselves, but there are also many people who society has failed.
I have a family member that blames everyone else for their problems and its become fracking annoying, and im sick that there are moments when i find myself defaulting into that behavior pattern
I think at the core of it, it comes down to having a team mindset vs an individual mindset. Team mindset: everyone says it was their own responsibility when the testing fire comes. Individual mindset: everyone blames someone else when the testing fire comes.
That last point made by Echo about Office Space was great. Our first reaction (most of us) is to be mad at Lumberg for being annoying but really he is just doing his job to an extent. The movie goes on to prove he is not the best boss though lol.
You also have cases where you have a team member that does not want to perform and should not be on the team. Or does every person that joins the military make it through their contract 100% of the time?
Maybe focus not so much on who's fault it is, but focus on how to prevent the situation from re-occurring. (?) There are guilt-throwers and guilt-catchers (e.g. ref. Games People Play, Eric Berne), but sometimes ascribing fault isn't actually that relevant.
My question and if it is the leader that just keeps messing up. And won't listen to anybody due to his seniority. Even though team sees me as lead. But I'm youngest in seniority. How do we take ownership of the leader?
Lead by example. People often respect and follow competency. Competency promotes efficiency. Efficient leadership reduces stress and maximizes pleasure(and the purposes of existence). Leave the drama and bullshit for the fools who fill their time with gossip and manipulation.
Can't get an answer to this. If my subordinate messes up, and I take responsibility for it, because I could have done this better or that better... then when is it appropriate to discipline/give paperwork? This is the ONLY question I have that I can't get an answer to. If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say... you hand out paperwork after explaining it a few times, and the subordinate is still messing up? And if you don't give paperwork then THAT TOO can be your fault, for not holding him/her accountable?
On the one hand it's not other peoples fault for a workers actions, however you DO have responsibility over the behavior of your team so taking ownership even for decisions someone else makes is just pragmatic since it doesn't help the situation to blame someone, you can't control them you can only control you, so it helps to take responsibility and find out what you can do to fix it. Also, if the actions of those under us were our fault then we wouldn't truly be at fault because the person above us would be at fault and the person above them etc, until ultimately you run out of people whose fault it can be and we have to blame God himself lol.
My thinking is very Biblical based and this touches on a Biblical principle. God said he would start judgement with Levi (aka his priesthood). Teachers, guides and leaders are ultimately responsible for what goes down in societies. America is in such corrupt condition because of the pulpit. I'm not knocking churches (God bless them!!), but our Christian pastors have let us all down as a nation. Instead of doing as the Bible instructs and teach Scripture chapter by chapter and verse by verse, they take little bits of info (verses) and preach whole sermons on one little bite of info they take out of context, becoming a windbag spouting out of their own heads. They don't study Scripture with authority anymore and don't teach anyone else to, either. They have run the more intelligent, hungry people out of the churches by the MILLIONS and this has ONLY helped the social Marxists on the other end of the spectrum in our education system, media and society in general devour those minds like rabid wolves. I could go on but it would be too much to express here. The point is, while no one else is necessarily responsible for your personal wrong doings/mistakes, those in positions of authority have the MOST responsibility in society. They SHOULD be held MOST accountable and this fear of accountability should be in every single one of them. THIS is why the British Monarchy lost what would have been its greatest asset in history, and why America worked up into our current time. Leadership became accountable. Be very wise what you do and say. Period.
Taking "ownership " for the team, is protecting and solidifying the team. Later, the cause of the mistake can be addressed, and steps taken to prevent any further problems. When a team member steps up and takes the heat, he is making a deposit into the "team" bank, which later could very possibly "pay out" and save his own ass.
So, what if your team wont act as a team? Like, 1 or 2 people out of 10 refuse( seriously) to follow through? Leaders refuse (seriously, and say so)to train as they falsify documents saying they did train. Coworkers reading novels at work while leaving machines down for next shift ( they do know better). Examples of leadership mocked and undermined. I guess the last resort is to take ownership by leaving? Patient outcomes involved...Tactful communication tried and leading by example tried.
@jocko willink Ask a really smart person like Jordan Peterson to formulate the definition of extreme ownership more clearly so as to get the idea. For me Extreme ownership is essentially not enough to simply say «I own this», but that what you’re doing is solving the problem, and the way to do so is to take responsibility for everything you have influence over. Cheers from Norway
It's everyone's fault to varying degrees but if everyone in the team acts like it's their own fault (takes ownership), it's better for the team and the individuals.
No it's your fault cuz of due diligence and your accountability on this guy and skills if you didnt ask him the right questions for the task at hand so it's his n your fault not just his fault it's also yours
Don’t you think the simple explanation for this is that everyone can only take responsibility for their own part. Not necessarily the mistakes or problems. That is why the expectation is that everyone will take ownership of what they could have done differently. You aren’t encouraging people to take responsibility of actually committing someone else’s mistake but the fact that they could have done something to aid in preventing it from happing at all and can be a part of ensuring it won’t happen again by doing those actions they were responsible for in the first place. You should never own someone else’s problem, that leaves you powerless. You own YOUR part in it.... the extreme of extreme ownership is believing that you have there power to act and cause things to happen. Preferably for the positive and prevention of the negative. You are never merely at the whim of someone else’s decisions. That is extreme. It doesn’t mean taking the blame for things you didn’t do or can’t change but recognizing in every situation you had an opportunity for impact and likely missed it if a problem comes up. You are sharing in the ownership with the person who made the mistake and sharing in the solution as well.
In the retail business ex: first i am not getting Mrg $$$$ Now i do the job n i complete it the Mrg ask me 2 do i do it 2 the best of my ability n listen 2 his/her instructions then h/s tells me i was done wrong ---Now the task is also their responsibility n they could have did it but h/s didn't want 2 do it just pass the buck n collect a easy paycheck so who's fault is it?
Dang it bill
I feel like this is a high level explanation.
I’ve been a manager, now an owner, and I have honestly never heard this situation explained like this. I really appreciate this video.
Standing by to get some.
JackDL92 As a manager I’ve learned this in my own after about 5 out of 10 years of doing so, although I’ve never been able to simplify the concept so well to others. Therefore this will be great to implement to my fellow managers, instead of us falling into old bad habits of playing the blame game when we know damn well we may have not given Bill the tools to succeed etc.
A justiça não tá respondendo mas meter fogo na casa do banner do bucho vou começar começar já comecei pelas outras vou começar na casa dele já passei a mensagem para todos se tiver alguém por perto chegaram perto invadir meter fogo quem na casa do banco aqui na casa do bucho vai queimando vai queimando senhor estiver deixa ele lá dentro não precisa tirar eles não se estiver lá dentro para mim tanto faz tô nem aí Eu esperei a justiça resolveu Esperei a justiça cumprido com frio Eu falei que eu ia reagir e já comecei fechar o circo e vou fechar o circo passar mesmo o circo tá fechado e não vai Discar para nenhum se não confessaram não colocar ele na cadeia pode ter certeza que o circo tá fechado já
Obama para o bucho palavra Sampaio para love you todos aqueles que estão contra mim me condenaram quiser me matar me massacraram eu nunca vou ser bom nunca para isso que eu tenho para eles é fogo para eles todos aqueles que são inimigo meu eu só tenho fogo para eles agora aqueles que são amigo meu que estiveram ao meu lado vai estar sempre protegido por que eu nunca vou atacar eles porque eles me defenderam me apoiaram me respeitaram Por que que o fim deles Esses são meus amigos Esses são minha família agora esses que estão me atacando e me ofendendo se achando que é dono do mundo eu vou mostrar para eles que ele não é dono da casa dele por isso que eu mandei meter fogo na casa dele que ele é dono nem da casa dele ele não é bom nem do rabo dele quanto mais da casa quanto mais do mundo das pessoas eu vou mostrar eu vou mostrar para ele que eu fiquei na casa dele e vou quebrar eu tô dando a minha palavra eu estou dando a minha palavra
É une todas as forças com todas as autoridades e vocês são de prova que une todas as forças com todas as autoridades colaborei direto mais de meses e quase dois meses dois meses ou mais muito mais de dois meses essa luta e eles não fazia nada então vou começar a queimar as casa dele para ver se eles vão resolver ou não vai se eles vão prender os caras não vão quero ver se a justiça não vai prender a justiça não prender o comércio matar eles
Se eu faço se eu estou com o pessoal do bem eu sou louco sou demônio sou criticado se eu estou com as pessoas me defendendo eu sou louco sou condenado Sim eu estou me protegendo eu sou condenado Então você é louco de uma vez Então já você é louco de uma vez já vou reagir fazendo o que eu tenho que fazer De toda forma estou me criticando se eu estou junto com os evangélico eu sou demônio se eu estou junto com os angélicos e você sabe eu sou criticado como demônio então o que que eles querem na minha vida que que eles querem porque que ele se incomoda com a minha vida então vai aguentar agora começou a queimar as casas de todos eles agora vão ser vou queimar as casa dele porque eu tô conversando que eu vou queimar não
I was never Willink to ever take responsibility for somebody else's mistake at work but now I will Echo these sentiments to my co workers. Thanks guys!
Well there’s a dichotomy there...
Most underrated comment 💯👌😁
„I don’t understand that extreme ownership thing“
Jocko: „ i have to clarify this !“ (actually taking extreme ownership)
Echo's challenge of extreme ownership + Jocko's explanation = my much improved understanding of extreme ownership and a wanting to apply it. Thanks!
Very well spoken, and greatly debated, the level of thought put into this discussion between the two of you is fantastic to watch. CZcams needs more content like this, cheers mates!
I like his first reaction after the question!
*As a leader, you must realize that the team must take the faults together and it is your responsibility to correct it.*
No, you should take resposibilty for the occurrance itself in the first place.
When I became a father....I realized these things.
YES! Exactly!
How can we turn around and blame our kid when we as parents are completely responsible for her/his mistakes, behavior and well being.
Great point
but as they get older I feel it boils down to their peers. the ppl they associate with are the ppl they become
The office space reference. Just bursted out laughing those damn TPS reports.
Jocko was not into that analogy at all lmao!
Good evening.
YES. Awesome lesson in 15 minutes.
Great example of blame and fault and responsibility and teams and Extreme Ownership in practice.
Mistakes happen all the time - we are all human.
Solve one problem, another problem comes up - all part of continuous improvement.
Jocko also addresses -- the "Difficult Discussion" -- when the time comes.
This is definitely one my favorite clips you guys have made. Funny, important, disembodied brains, complex topic. Get some
What I understand from my disembodied brain point of view:
When others make mistakes on your team that lead into a problem,
Own the problem
Come up with a solution
Implement the solution and own the implementation!
*Always take ownership.*
Every mistake is a chance to learn, profit from
other people’s mistake.
I had this problem with a colleague. I was responsible for teaching her the procedures and I did so many times and watched over her and made sure she knew what was going on and had a "ask me anything policy". Constantly, I would ask her if she was ok and understood etc. She would say yes, I got this. Well, lo and behold she would constantly make mistakes and I would explain things to her time and time again and she just would make the same mistakes. When I had to report to my team leader, I would take ownership of the problem (without knowing that this was a concept-I am just responsible for my actions) and she would NOT or she would blame me. I told her she needed to take responsibility for her work and her mistakes. So, I started NOT trusting her or her work and would have to double-check everything, which was a waste of time. Eventually, she got fired. At what point, after going through all the checks and taking ownership on your end, do you tell someone to take ownership on their end? I think this girl just didn't understand what it meant to take ownership and saw that I was and shirked her own ownership until I told her to do so. I think some people just don't get what ownership is, in general.
It could have been that she felt unqualified but had a can do attitude.
Maybe she was scared to ask questions because she thought she would look bad. Then again some people just don't care and some are too arrogant to ask questions.
Dealt with this today. It’s so easy to point the finger at piss poor project management.
A beautiful perception of teamwork....love it
Great work guys
I am a Facilities Manager at an aerospace and defense manufacturer, I worked to this position over 10 years of clawing my way up from cleaning parts and mopping floors. I recently had a 3 year old criminal case come back up and could end up doing the next couple years in prison. I have spent the last few years fixing my wrongs, paying off debts, rebuilding relationships, ect. I am still acting manager and working to prep my team to function without me. Through this extremely difficult time of letting down my son, my pregnant wife, and my entire workplace I have religiously listened to Jocko and tried to implement some of his leadership and ownership tactics into my own life, and though it probably wont change the outcome, it has changed the path. I have been able to maintain my relationships through this and am confident it will endure. Thank you for all you contribute and all you have sacrificed for us all.
You explained it well. At least you did in the book. I knew what you were going to say to this, and it was good reinforcement as I get set to teach my students how to properly operate as a team in group projects.
That pesky ego, always building its self up at the expense of everyone else. I love the concept of extreme ownership, and it works where there is life and death on the battlefield. The unspoken truth is, I would want my fellow team mates to be willing to put it ALL on the line for me if I found myself in a terrible situation, and they would also know that I would do the same for them. Everywhere else its just one up man-ship and pesky ego must not die on this hill today.
Where's the "Echo is JAACKED!!" comment?
Another element to this is that people, 99% of the time, have clear reasons for their actions. Taking ownership for the situation and correcting what allowed the person to make the wrong decision helps them make better decisions in the future. Thank you,
Jocko. This has helped me understand this concept even more.
This is absolutely excellent. Especially because bill may have tremendous talents of other kinds he does contribute to the team.
This lesson right here is one of the hardest you will even learn in your life. It is such a bitter lesson to learn especially if it is over something that is the slightest technicality or an extremely small detail that would take lawyer type exploitation to recognize, and even worse that small thing happens at the wrong time to cause a result that's worse than the actual offense. Mind you these lessons don't happen all that often but man do they suck when they come along. You will feel defenseless and powerless because you will feel like you made all the right moves, did all the right things, took all the right precautions to still have a bad result, and at the end of the day, when you do the math, and the math doesnt lie, it especially hurts when your heart was in the right place only to find you missed one tiny detail.
I know I’m late, but brother you hit the nail on the head
Jocko Willink is explaining how and why it's so important and helpful not to blame an individual on a team even when someone else is at fault. It's true that it's important to help the person who completely drops the ball or makes the mistake. If the person is having trouble understanding something. What Jocko Willink is saying that if someone is making mistakes and isn't capable of doing a job it's because the person hasn't been shown the correct way to do things it will not help. What is important is to have everyone on a team take responsibility. Then fix, correct, remedy and solve the problematic issue.
I really need to dive deep into this. When I get to point I want everyone on my team read this book so we are all on the same page.
Echo’s arms look HUGE in this one. Well done
It's true when a team takes extreme ownership: everyone is responsible, everyone takes ownership, and everyone tries to fix the problems.
That said, some problems should be prioritized to solve because some problems are larger than others.
I have a question that I really struggled with for five months a year back:
I was a new middle manager when an old upper manager was 'teaching' me responsibility. He would say, "you're the leader, you are fully responsible for what happens, so when something goes wrong, it is your fault," to which I would think, "but you're my leader, does that not mean you are responsible too?" and he would reply, "no, you are responsible for not seeking out my leadership when you needed to,". But the truth was that he was just a bad leader and needed to blame people to save face to his superiors. I was a scape goat, but he used this honest leadership fact to support it. It got worse when I took up initiative and compensated for his lack of leadership, but then he took it as insubordination. We got caught in a vicious cycle of "good leaders take full responsibility," "but you are taking no responsibility, that makes you a bad leader, I have to lead then," "stop usurping me! Follow my orders!" I follow orders, but things go wrong because he is a bad leader, "it is all your fault". The feedback loop broke when I followed an order I knew would be catastrophic and when the blame came I just shrugged my shoulders and said "just followed orders,". I was then transferred. How could that have been handled better? Especially if there wasn't a way out?
Look for "leading up the chain of command" you'll find some Jocko's videos about it, I think there is an entire chapter in Extreme Ownership too, this is going to be a much better answer that what I can write here ina comment 😉
As a 30 year old my biggest life regret is not joining the military and I did not join because of my background and tattoos at the time. Being able to learn from these guys and apply it to my life now has been life changing. It's as if I am getting the training I always wish I got.
"But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” 23And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”
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This applies to so much in life.
Extreme ownership shows what kind of leadership is needed in the right direction for better life decisions in work and life itself
Echo laughing has me laughing my ass off too 😂 every time Jocko says “bill” is funny too 😂
Ownership and accountability are so important!
I can’t imagine Jacko sitting watch office space! Lol good 👍
Bill was blamed for mucking up Step 4? GOOD. Now the team has an opportunity to learn about extreme ownership.
Finding who is at fault is useful if you're looking at pinning the blame on individuals. Bearing responsibility for fixing the problem is what the team, especially its leaders, need to be concerned with.
I have no possibility to listen to this podcast right now but from my own experience there is always point in every situation which is influenced one way or another by us. Sometimes finding this subtle link is very difficult because there is often distance in time ora/and space. Sometimes we have not enough information to know our involvement (for example we said something to somebody causing certain string of actions. When this string comes back to us we are not able to recognise the asociation). None the less everything influencing in bad or good way our lives must be carried by us and there is no escape. No matter of the cause. Pushing responsibility at something/somebody else do not solve any problem. At all. Its simple.
legendary play “red 46 curve twist” unlocked
Meaning everyone... the leader and the team take ownership of the problem. Then work together by helping each other get the problem solved, fixed and put to an end.
Jeez, take it easy on Bill
Where do guys like this congregate. 🙏 Thank you. Surprising few think like this
Team: confirm that we understand our individual parts of the job
Yeeeeeeeah yeeeeeeeah Soo I'm gonna have to ask you to move your desk into the basement.
"I'm not even mad at Lumberg for that." LOL, that was a great example.
LMAO at the end. Echo is a damn funny guy.
@12:25 @EchoCharles -maybe the confusion is simply, MULTIPLE truths can exist at once. Everyone is at fault in some way, everyone needs to own their part of it, & everyone is responsible for implementing their solution, all at the same time. The option to blame is never an option.
In my view when you have a failure in your team the team is always at fault. It doesn’t matter individually what happened because of a systematic failure in the team. The most important thing is to never let it happen again.
Jocko: "LEAD"
Echo: "This reminds me of Office Space..."
What a great podcasting team.
1. Identify the problem
2. Take ownership of your part of the problem.
3. Identify solution for the problem.
4. Implement solution for the problem.
If I understand correctly, it's that everyone is at fault. But your job as an individual is to identify what your fault is, what you could have done better, and bring your solution to the team. It's that you always could have done better. Even if that guy messed up, you could have done something to prevent that guy from messing up. My one question, and I think where people get caught, is the line between the guy you can help and the guy you can't. When do you keep training a guy, and when do you give up on him and remove him from the situation. And what if you don't have the power to remove the guy from the situation, but he's hopeless and you have explored everything in your power to help him. All of your resources are being consumed by a guy who just doesn't make the cut, but he won't get fired because he's the boss' son or something. You are overworked and need to be on your shit, but that guy keeps failing whenever you leave him alone. I think the edges of this are where people get caught.
...I've been Bill too many times. And I always feel absolutely terrible for letting everyone down. I think, if I had that much support from any of my jobs, I would push everything I have into it instead of getting panic attacks when they ask for reports...
Thats a cute answer but eventually you will have to address the individuals mistake. You can assume blame etc...by association, lack of training etc... but sooner or later each person does need to assume responsability. By always taking on the Team Responsability attitude you are punishing those who do things right vrs those who dont choose to care or change because they are never directly held accountable. RACI (Responsability-Accountability-Consulted-Informed)...
Extreme ownership prevents negative results. being the boss means rolling with the punches and finding a way.
Echo got huge bonus points in my book for the Office Space reference 😂🇨🇦
I get what Jocko is saying, even if there is a malevolence in your team of someone TRYING to screw up, or is so incompetent that they cannot perform the task, you as the leader are responsible for bringing that individual on your team, not seeing that and giving them responsibility. The idea of extreme ownership is most fruitful in a team of people who believe in extreme ownership because it’s not one person’s fault, it’s the entire team’s fault but everyone is dealing with themselves on what they need to do to fix it and the whole team is made better.
Another way Echo could put it in the end is the machine gunner physically did the movement and action that was considered the mistake by others, but to him it was not a mistake in the moment. Him not knowing it wasn’t a mistake is the leaders fault and that mistake is just end result of the leader making mistakes further down the chain and now it’s just showing up in an obvious way.
We overcome evil with good
I like the disembodied brain example. Cool guys, thank you.
Do you take ownership/responsibility for someone else's malevolent actions? If others take ownership for evil perpetrated with full intent, you justify/excuse their actions.
Yes and no. Take Criminals who were insane due to being abused growing up. There are criminals who have been abused growing up, had child services and law enforcement called on their behalf multiple times only to be put back into the abusive household each time. That is an instance where society had a chance to protect a vulnerable person from conditions that WE KNOW are likely to lead to criminal behavior in the in adulthood. While that's not a free pass the criminal who was abused growing up, there was something society could have done to protect that kid and therefore that Kid's victims when he/she grows up. There certainly are criminals who have no one to blame but themselves, but there are also many people who society has failed.
I have a family member that blames everyone else for their problems and its become fracking annoying, and im sick that there are moments when i find myself defaulting into that behavior pattern
I think at the core of it, it comes down to having a team mindset vs an individual mindset.
Team mindset: everyone says it was their own responsibility when the testing fire comes.
Individual mindset: everyone blames someone else when the testing fire comes.
A smart man
That last point made by Echo about Office Space was great. Our first reaction (most of us) is to be mad at Lumberg for being annoying but really he is just doing his job to an extent. The movie goes on to prove he is not the best boss though lol.
You also have cases where you have a team member that does not want to perform and should not be on the team. Or does every person that joins the military make it through their contract 100% of the time?
Maybe focus not so much on who's fault it is, but focus on how to prevent the situation from re-occurring. (?) There are guilt-throwers and guilt-catchers (e.g. ref. Games People Play, Eric Berne), but sometimes ascribing fault isn't actually that relevant.
jocko is basically a real life gun Jack from tekken
Dammit Bill
When I was born...
I knew it was my fault to be born with....
SKINNY KNEES!!!!
The team reflects the leader?
My question and if it is the leader that just keeps messing up. And won't listen to anybody due to his seniority. Even though team sees me as lead. But I'm youngest in seniority. How do we take ownership of the leader?
Lead by example.
People often respect and follow competency. Competency promotes efficiency. Efficient leadership reduces stress and maximizes pleasure(and the purposes of existence).
Leave the drama and bullshit for the fools who fill their time with gossip and manipulation.
Can't get an answer to this. If my subordinate messes up, and I take responsibility for it, because I could have done this better or that better... then when is it appropriate to discipline/give paperwork? This is the ONLY question I have that I can't get an answer to. If I had to take a stab at it, I'd say... you hand out paperwork after explaining it a few times, and the subordinate is still messing up? And if you don't give paperwork then THAT TOO can be your fault, for not holding him/her accountable?
13:32 - Office Space -- TPS reports!
On the one hand it's not other peoples fault for a workers actions, however you DO have responsibility over the behavior of your team so taking ownership even for decisions someone else makes is just pragmatic since it doesn't help the situation to blame someone, you can't control them you can only control you, so it helps to take responsibility and find out what you can do to fix it. Also, if the actions of those under us were our fault then we wouldn't truly be at fault because the person above us would be at fault and the person above them etc, until ultimately you run out of people whose fault it can be and we have to blame God himself lol.
My thinking is very Biblical based and this touches on a Biblical principle. God said he would start judgement with Levi (aka his priesthood). Teachers, guides and leaders are ultimately responsible for what goes down in societies. America is in such corrupt condition because of the pulpit. I'm not knocking churches (God bless them!!), but our Christian pastors have let us all down as a nation. Instead of doing as the Bible instructs and teach Scripture chapter by chapter and verse by verse, they take little bits of info (verses) and preach whole sermons on one little bite of info they take out of context, becoming a windbag spouting out of their own heads. They don't study Scripture with authority anymore and don't teach anyone else to, either.
They have run the more intelligent, hungry people out of the churches by the MILLIONS and this has ONLY helped the social Marxists on the other end of the spectrum in our education system, media and society in general devour those minds like rabid wolves.
I could go on but it would be too much to express here. The point is, while no one else is necessarily responsible for your personal wrong doings/mistakes, those in positions of authority have the MOST responsibility in society. They SHOULD be held MOST accountable and this fear of accountability should be in every single one of them. THIS is why the British Monarchy lost what would have been its greatest asset in history, and why America worked up into our current time. Leadership became accountable.
Be very wise what you do and say. Period.
Good reply
Taking "ownership " for the team, is protecting and solidifying the team. Later, the cause of the mistake can be addressed, and steps taken to prevent any further problems. When a team member steps up and takes the heat, he is making a deposit into the "team" bank, which later could very possibly "pay out" and save his own ass.
So, what if your team wont act as a team? Like, 1 or 2 people out of 10 refuse( seriously) to follow through? Leaders refuse (seriously, and say so)to train as they falsify documents saying they did train. Coworkers reading novels at work while leaving machines down for next shift ( they do know better). Examples of leadership mocked and undermined. I guess the last resort is to take ownership by leaving? Patient outcomes involved...Tactful communication tried and leading by example tried.
God damnit Bill
What is jocko pouring into his water at 0:19
@jocko willink Ask a really smart person like Jordan Peterson to formulate the definition of extreme ownership more clearly so as to get the idea. For me Extreme ownership is essentially not enough to simply say «I own this», but that what you’re doing is solving the problem, and the way to do so is to take responsibility for everything you have influence over.
Cheers from Norway
when you actually have a coworker named bill 😂😂😂
It's everyone's fault to varying degrees but if everyone in the team acts like it's their own fault (takes ownership), it's better for the team and the individuals.
How does huge over sized biceps fit into this equation?
Is that Jocko’s amino acids drawn from his body? And he uses them to get jacked? If that’s the case, that’s awesome
Jocko taking extreme ownership on his podcast
this doesn't really work in retail lol 80% of the employees give 2 fucks about being team players. they just clock in and do the bare minimum.
You're ALL responsible.
No it's your fault cuz of due diligence and your accountability on this guy and skills if you didnt ask him the right questions for the task at hand so it's his n your fault not just his fault it's also yours
Don’t you think the simple explanation for this is that everyone can only take responsibility for their own part. Not necessarily the mistakes or problems. That is why the expectation is that everyone will take ownership of what they could have done differently. You aren’t encouraging people to take responsibility of actually committing someone else’s mistake but the fact that they could have done something to aid in preventing it from happing at all and can be a part of ensuring it won’t happen again by doing those actions they were responsible for in the first place. You should never own someone else’s problem, that leaves you powerless. You own YOUR part in it.... the extreme of extreme ownership is believing that you have there power to act and cause things to happen. Preferably for the positive and prevention of the negative. You are never merely at the whim of someone else’s decisions. That is extreme. It doesn’t mean taking the blame for things you didn’t do or can’t change but recognizing in every situation you had an opportunity for impact and likely missed it if a problem comes up. You are sharing in the ownership with the person who made the mistake and sharing in the solution as well.
Echo, two different people taking blame is not mutually exclusive; this is what Jocko is getting at.
edit clarification
It’s not my fault
What if everyone is taking extreme ownership except the one person who made that mistake?
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So Bill can fuck up and its ok Bill should speak up and say I Dont get it but shit happens so dont worry Bill WE got this
If its Bill's fault then if he's Hispanic it's Memo's fault.
Rememberized lol damnit Bill
Oh ....little slow on the uptake?
Poor Bill
In the retail business ex: first i am not getting Mrg $$$$ Now i do the job n i complete it the Mrg ask me 2 do i do it 2 the best of my ability n listen 2 his/her instructions then h/s tells me i was done wrong ---Now the task is also their responsibility n they could have did it but h/s didn't want 2 do it just pass the buck n collect a easy paycheck so who's fault is it?
ownership = intelligence. Try that in the asian world where everyone blames each other
Thank you..accountability....this doesn't happen in real life!!!
Who is the swollen up guy lip syncing Echo’s voice! Seriously had no idea you were that big! Lol....
Easy on that shirt, echo.