New York City is Transforming Its Rail Network | East Side Access
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2022
- East Side Access is the massive mainline rail project New York City has been working on for the past few decades, and it'll bring a brand new terminal to Grand Central Terminal, alongside Long Island Rail Road services. Learn more about it in this video!
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Ever wondered why your city's transit just doesn't seem quite up to snuff? RMTransit is here to answer that, and help you open your eyes to all of the different public transportation systems around the world!
Reece (the RM in RMTransit) is an urbanist and public transport critic residing in Toronto, Canada, with the goal of helping the world become more connected through metros, trams, buses, high-speed trains, and all other transport modes.
As much as ESA and Penn Access are good projects, the fact that NYC has 2 terminal stations less than a mile apart that are served by 3 different commuter rail services and has no plans to connect them and allow through running feels like a massive missed opportunity
I agree, it would relieve a lot of congestion from the NYC Subway
The other thing is that LIRR and MNR are run by LITERALLY THE SAME OPERATOR. They’re both MTA! there is no excuse not to at least through-run the Metro North and LIRR trains. NJ Transit is a different entity so I get why they might not through run, but still COME ON
The city doesn't have actual thinkers in charge of its planning and projects. There's several agencies with brilliant ideas which they only take from if they feel they need a boost in their approval ratings, thats what Hochul did with announcing the IBX
That might genuinely be near-impossible to do. Considering how difficult it was to build ESA, finding a way to connect GC and Penn, some of the most expensive and congested areas in country, would take half century at the MTA’s pace.
You are forgetting there is a fourth railroad who has an effect on all this, Amtrak. They own Penn Station, they own the NEC and they own Sunnyside Yard.
As an engineering student, I actually toured the 63rd St tunnel in 1995. We talked about how one day the LIRR would use it to get to Grand Central. Crazy to now see it happening.
IN 1999 I was a timberman when engineers when down through the hatches to inspect the tunnel
That’s 28 years from 1995 to 2023 from when you visited. Sounds crazy. As an engineer, do you think this is a reasonable timeframe to achieve a project of that scale? Or could we have done it much faster ?
As someone from Connecticut, the Metro North Extension to NYP is very exciting. Now I won't have to pay double the price for Amtrak tickets when I can just hop on the commuter to Penn.
I live in one of the areas that is getting a new mnrr station it wont be completed until 2027 which i feel is way too long. They could have different crews working on what needs to be fixed, upgraded and built at the same time. They could build out all 4 stations at the same time.
Maybe MNRR could work with the state of CT and get MNRR extended out at least as far as New London. Maybe with a connecting train to Providence
If it wasn't for Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, the iconic Grand Central Terminal would've gotten the same fate as the original Penn Station. The original Penn Station was enormous, a majestic building that rivaled Grand Central. One describes it compared to the modern Penn Station as "One entered the city like a god; one scuttles in now like a rat.” When it was decided to demolish the building in favor of Madison Square Garden, there was outrage, but it wasn't enough to save it.
It was a turning point in the preservation movement. Two years after its demolition, the city passed a landmarks preservation act, thereby creating the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission. Grand Central Terminal was next on the chopping block, as proposed by its then owner Penn Central in 1968. It was to be replaced by a Marcel Breuer office building design that looked like a shoebox lid on its side. Jacqueline Kennedy was having NONE of it. She joined the fight in 1975 with the Municipal Art Society and had a conference at the famous Oyster Bar where she said, "If we don’t care about our past, we can’t have very much hope for our future." Thanks to Jacqueline convincing the mayor (Abraham Beame), the terminal was ultimately saved by the city's LPC, but this was challenged by Penn Central in a Supreme Court case. In 1978, the court ruled in favor of the city. And the most beautiful building in NYC was saved.
How do you know this
They have internet in North Korea?
@@Boypogikami132 when you're the supreme leader, you're allowed to use Wikipedia
@@TAP7a
When you're the supreme leader Wikipedia asks you first.
The interactive fiction game "Lost New York" (Neil deMause, 1996) includes original Penn among its many historical locations, as the final scene. The game is a sort of time travel tour of the past with tricky adventure game puzzles. Also, you get to foil Robert Moses.
Now with Penn Station Access, the Metro North commuters will get to see exactly what the LIRR commuters trapped in the basement that has been modern Penn Station had to deal with for so long 😂Though jokes aside, Moynihan Train Hall is a big upgrade and a great mix of the old and the new (the post office it's in was designed by the same architect behind the original Penn Station, so it's the closest we're gonna get to the original Penn). As an avid LIRR rider (and former MNRR rider), seeing how some big cities in this country get one to two trains a day, it makes me glad the suburb I currently live in allows me to have the privilege of station having a train in the direction of NYC once an hour. And with the LIRR improving the tracks to get ready for more frequent service, the network is just gonna get better.
Sure, the NYC Subway is an effective system, but I'm glad the commuter rail services of the surrounding metro area are being talked about for a change. Because rail truly keeps the metro area moving.
the basement is actually better now, they are almost done renovating that ugly mess down on 7th avenue. higher ceilings and brighter
@@princelasdoce1702 "Almost".
Great to see that New York is getting a new transit project!
It’s not all that often, but very exciting!
I hope it does well
I am happy to announce that I was on the first LIRR train leaving from Grand Central
Boston has a similar proposed project called the Nort-South Rail Link, which would allow commuter rail trains to run through North Station into South Station and vice versa. Currently, the only way to get from one Station to the other is to take the Green Line or Orange Line, and then transfer onto the Red Line, which will then take you to South Station. Most proposals have the North-South Rail Link running underneath the Rose Kennedy Greenway, along side the I-93 tunnels (part of the disastrous "Big Dig" project). The project has failed to materialize thus far.
That project NEEDS to be advanced now that the Green Line Extension is finished. It would also force the T to electrify their network (or at least purchased dual mode engines for the rail link) and would allow Amtrak to extend Northeast Corridor operations into Maine. I think this would be worthwhile to get off the ground in the next ten years.
@@DDELE7 it's not gonna happen without significant funding from the federal government. The state doesn't have the political appetite for such a big project.
Finally
@@casmatt99
Why?
They should have put median/side running commuter rail tracks in the big dig tunnel.
For how disruptive that project was it seems like a total waste for them to not have designed for such a low hanging fruit. The added cost of this design probably would have amounted to a rounding error compared to the sheer cost of the whole project
in addition to ESA, the LIRR in recent years has also double tracked (Farmingdale to Ronkomkoma) and even triple tracked (Floral Park to Hicksville) sections of its network to prepare for the increase in service, as well as removed several grade crossings, expanded a rail yard, and renovated a significant amount of stations across the island, most notably those along the new third track on the Main Line. While Grand Central Madison is a great addition for a Long Islander like me, it’s the increased off-peak and reverse peak service across the network (well, at least the electrified portions of the network) that GCM and it’s surrounding projects are going to enable
Yes, there have been a lot of network wide improvements. Which is why other decisions feel so strange!
Add to your list the signaling of the Montauk line.
No one is going to use it and the MTA burned $11b
Just wanted to issue a quick spelling correction here. Ronkonkoma is the correct spelling for the second place you mentioned. With two n's. Not two m's. Just pointing that out here because folks not from NYC won't know that.
@@lsmmoore1 thought it was ronkompton?
RMTransit, you were very thoughtful to touch on the New York commuter railroads. I enjoy your coverage on the Grand Central Madison, along with the Long Island Railroad.
Thanks, Reese! 🙂
What I want is actual subway stations in all terminals of JFK and LGA, not the "people mover" trains we have now to JFK and EWR.
Our best chance is Astoria line extended to an underground station situated under the main terminal.
EWR is blowing it's chance, they are redoing the people mover instead of running PATH trains.
Wouldn’t it be orders of magnitude cheaper to refurbish the monorail instead of extending the PATH? Also, if you extend path, you’re going to need to find a way to connect AmTrak and the parking lots to the terminals, so you’re not necessarily going to be able to avoid using the monorail.
@@jruss609 Yes, that's the problem! It's cheaper to build monorails and other crappy things than to extend the Path and the subway and put proper train stations at the terminals 😞
My issue with extending subway is it only benefits the city. Being from Long Island the airtrain is very convenient. By extending the Astoria line to LGA I would have to take the LIRR to Grand Central take a 456 to 59th st transfer to an NW train to get to the airport. That’s a lot of trains to catch where I can take a direct train almost any time of day to Jamaica and transfer once.
@@stevenroshni1228 I am not surprised. The Port Authority is known for its stupidity!
You’re videos just continue to showcase the amount of research you put in as well as your love for rail!! Thanks for the content and keep killing it!!
Through services is a key component of a great regional system. Paris had the same problem in the past, the railways around the cities were built as independent networks by different private companies with their own standards (electrification, platform height…) and their own terminal station (Nord, Est, Lyon, Austerlitz, Montparnasse and St Lazarre). People who want to cross the city had to take the metro, and take another train in a different station, as with Penn station and GCT in NYC. During the 70s, to remediate this, Paris built several cross-city tunnels, connecting the terminal stations and major metro stations (Chatelêt or Nation for exemple) with massive new underground stations. This regional metro system (that was its name when it opened) now knwon as the RER have the busiest rapid transit lines in Europe. It shares the same model with Tokyo trains and inspied the Crossrail project. Through services, high frequencies and great connectivity are by far the most important things for a good rapid transit line. NYC should operate services from NJ to LI or to the north across Manhattan by connecting Penn station and GCT with a new tunnel. And why not run trains from the subway on LI railroad and MN railroad as in Japan and more particulary Tokyo.
RER is so great that last week, the french president announced the creation of 10 additional networks in other cities. The first phase of the project will consist of doubling or tripling the frequency of the existing lines, better fare integration and new rolling stock. The second phase will add new cross-city tunnels with new stations where its needed. For exemple, one of the most advanced project is in Marseille with the new tunnel planned to open in 2035 with the first phase or the new HSR line Nice.
I can tell you right off the bat the last one is illegal. US federal law dictates rapid transit operators and mainline railroads are completely separate legal concepts, who can not share their tracks at the same time.
Also Metro-North uses a bottom contact third rail, and both railroads use a 750 volt power supply, while the subway uses about 600 volts. That would also require installing Positive Train Control on subway cars, something they don’t currently have to do because that is an Federal Railroad Administration regulation, and the subway is overseen by the Federal Transit Administration.
@@metropod Thank you.
On top of that…
Midtown New York City is littered with tunnels. There’s no way that they can build past 6th Ave and 34th street.
You have the Path train tunnels, Broadway N,Q,R, and W tunnels, 6th Ave subway B,D,F, and M tunnels, Underground aqueduct, and last but not least East River Tunnels into Penn Station. All of these are tightly layered in that spot.
@@metropod Then upgrade the MTA's NYCTA subway into a railroad, which would look like PATH (always a railroad despite subway-sized trains, even back when it shared tracks with PRR to Journal Square before the North River Tunnels were completed) after completion. Sure, the ticket prices wpuld have to increase to cover the increased infrastructure and staffing costs, but the NYCTA subway is already ridiculously cheap given the local salaries. If the NYCTA subway is upgraded to railroad to enable through-running to LIRR and MNRR, the ticket prices would be similar to PATH, WMATA, or BART, which is reasonable and well worth it.
@@00crashtest No. Just like, no. Salaries may be overall higher than other cities, but we have so many lower-income people in the city that are just balanced out but millionaires, and to block them out of our system ever more than we already do which led to fare-evading, would not be the best idea.
Thank you for mentioning the inter borough express and queens link projects. My family’s been living in flatlands, Brooklyn now for our whole lives. Our home is located near a future potential train stop and business in my area has been doing very well, yet this projects been taking up all the time and money for it 😭
I find it crazy that the second richest city in the world is struggling to provide money for infrastructure used everyday.
Thank you for referring to it as Grand Central Terminal instead of Grand Central Station. That is very much the hill on which my pedantry will make its glorious last stand.
I am a civil engineer who worked on New Haven Line capitol projects for 2+ decades. Let me clear up a few things that tons of commentors are Wayyyyy off base about:
Metro-North Penn Sta access will ONLY be for New Haven Line trains, as the Hell Gate Connector line merges with ONLY the New Haven Line at New Rochelle, north of the splits with the Harlem & Hudson lines. The M8's, which run on the New Haven Line exclusively. are capable of all 4 power sources in the NYC area: 12.5V & 25V AC overhead catenary, & both over running & under running 600V DC 3rd rail. Harlem & Hudson lines are exclusively over running 3rd rail & their equipment can only run on those lines (M5's / 7's / soon to come 9's).
A connector between Grand Central & Penn Station is more than likely not possible without MAJOR work at Penn Sta because of the geometry of all the interlockings in the tunnel approaches to Penn Sta from the east side. An entirely new sub level station would be needed for this service, similar to the new Grand Central Madison. You cannot just connect the GCM tail tracks into the tracks east of Penn Sta. The geometry Simply. Doesn't. Work. The other issue is the power system incompatibilities. Yes, the New Haven Line M8's are capable, but none of the other trains are. So new fleets would be needed. The lines serving Grand Central, including the new LI connection, don't have the clearance for overhead catenary, anything serving GCT needs to be 3rd rail.
My suggestion for connecting the other Metro-North lines into Long Island / Brooklyn / Queens is a semi-circumferential new line paralleling I-287 thru White Plains, tying in physically between the Port Jervis branch in New Jersey, crossing the new Tappan Zee bridge, then tying physically into the New Haven Line at Rye, with "junction" stations (similar to Secaucus) on the Pascak Valley line in NJ, Hudson, & Harlem lines in Westchester Co. This would then have a new connection between the Hell Gate Bridge on the Brooklyn side into the LIRR main line into Jamaica sta, via the existing freight only line & a new flyover connection between it & the LIRR main. The only issue here is that, VERY tragically, the Tappan Zee Bridge eliminated ANY consideration for a rail line in 100% favor of bus only lanes. That really SUCKS & was utterly short sighted, but caused by the NIMBY's & BANANA's on the west side of the Hudson who didn't want the "Riff Raff" coming to their smarmy towns in the 'burbs. (BANANA = Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything)
An irony- the MNR line in the Bronx,really is the old,much missed New York,Westchester and Boston,! That line was a subsidiary of the New Haven,meant to alievate the then congestion into,and out of GCT in the early part of the 20th century! And by the way,AMTRAK did run trains on the Empire Service into/out of Grand Central,and during the cleanup,after Sandy,they transferred that service from Penn,to cut track usage! Thanks for the update,New York can use a nice Municipal Christmas gift 🎁 😀!! Thanks Reece,and Merry Christmas to you!!
Rail connection to LaGuardia is an absolute must, I’d expand the N & W trains to LaGuardia over an air train any day.
Great explanations. Thanks. So many are quick to condemn projects rather than point out the good and the less good. Mainly, I think, they do it to just show off how knowledgeable and wise they are.
Your balanced and unemotional piece is valuable to us.
I know a lot more now because of your piece. It’s still a lot to understand but I’m closer now. Your maps and graphics are incredibly helpful.
@RMTransit - Again, thank you for the recent focus on NYC and our never-ending list (or wish lists!) of Transit Projects!
That last thirty seconds or so about the various projects (Queenslink, Second Abe Subway, IBX, etc) would be a GREAT next video!!! Don't you think? 😉
Still waiting for new 'North River Tunnels' to replace the over 110 year old tubes constructed by the Pennsylvania Railroad. This is said to be 'the most urgent public works project needed in the country' [Gateway Project]. I was pleased to see what appears to be work taking place on the Portal Bridge Replacement over the Hackensack River. A four track main between Newark and New York Penn is essential to relieve congestion on that very busy corridor; Secaucus Junction appears built to accommodate just such a track configuration. Thanks for the video.
Awesome video. I’m a New Yorker and you provided great details I had no clue about. Appreciate it👍🏽
Thanks for covering this.. as a local from long island.
In a perfect world, trains would through-run from Grand central to Penn and Brooklyn. Brooklyn is still on Long Island and a 15 minute ride to midtown from downtown BK would be a game changer for the city and could
open up more possibly for one seat rides, Connecticut to Brooklyn would be more than possible.
What they really should of done is built a RER/S-Bahn/Crossrail type of line from Jamaica -> Grand Central -> Penn Station -> Downtown Manhattan (World Trade Centre?) -> Atlantic Terminal -> Jamaica.
Oh yea…
We can barely build a couple mile airport extension to LGA, let’s add that project onto the list lol.
literally impossible. There are way too many tunnels already in the way. The only way it MIGHT be possible would be if it was built hundreds of feet underground. And even then, get ready for over 30 years of construction!
@@casondean8271 Make it an elevated train primarily with limited stops.
@@casondean8271 I’m really a believer that where there’s a will there’s a way
The original vision for Fulton Center was basically this. A main line rail station for Lower Manhattan serving both Metro North and LIRR via Grand Central and Atlantic Terminal respectively. The big issue with running Metro North trains further south is that Grand Central's upper level tracks are on the same level as the main comcourse, so they can't really go anywhere without destroying the existing station. The lower level doesn't have this problem, but the Lexington Ave subway moves over to Park at 42nd street, and so MNR tracks would have to move over to Madison, but that's now occupied as well. It might be possible to have them join the LIRR tail tracks, but that would likely be extremely expensive.
Hopefully the Atlantic branch becomes a new heavy rail division, sharing rolling stock with Interborough Express and SIRR. This could help us begin building up the operational knowledge for a more S-Bahn style network for the new Penn Access, existing PW Branch and eventually a wholescale conversion of the commuter rail network.
Reese , Also a good idea (when interborought express will be completed and opened ) will be extend this future line vía inmersed tube tunnel to new jersey (like the BART in the Bay Area).
In addition to this project, lets not forget the LIRR triple tracking their main line, allowing for a significant increase in service. Between those two, rail travel will indeed be transformed.
Reece, there's also 2 other LIRR western terminals, Hunterspoint Avenue and Long Island City!!
Great video. Could you do a video on Dublin's Dart rail system. It's supposed to be getting a pretty huge expansion with new trains soon. Keep up the good work 👍
I’ve lived in NYC most of my life, and I’m amazed I didn’t know about this until now!
Supposedly from some RPA plans, asides a future connection to penn station, one other option that could be explored is the LIRR extending down via 3rd Av to loop back to Atlantic terminal as an alternative to phases 3/4 of Second Av Subway
It’s no a bad idea, but that would already make the project more expensive than building the second Avenue subway outright because there’s no underwater tunnel in those initial phases.
that would be a great idea, and you could also have a station in Lower Manhattan, possibly right near the WTC transit hub that's currently used by the subway and PATH.
Your understanding of the NYC transportation system is outstanding. Thanks again.
Now if the LIRR can link to Connecticut out East going northward that would be awesome. Also, some north-south connections on Long Island would also link different parts of the suburbs without having to head into Nassau.
(Also, some more subways for Queens would be nice)
The problem with implementing the idea of a cross-Long Island Sound tunnel is NIMBY (not in my backyard). I live on the North Shore where one potential tunnel entrance could be built, and let me tell you good luck getting these people to give up their land to the MTA.
Reece, great video on NYC. I would like to request you do an full explainer video on the Washington DC transit system. Now that the Silver Line extends to Dulles and beyond, plus the future circumferential Purple Line coming soon, it seems like a great chance to showcase DC’s world class Metro system. A focus on the iconic vaulted concrete underground stations would be a great storyline. I believe that DC is one of the few cities in the world that has rail access to three international airports, once you include MARC trains to BWI. Thanks again for your informative video’s.
Thanks for pointing that out. I told another reader as well. DC is one of the very few cities in the world to connect 3 major airports via public trains.
I am a fan of ESA and Penn Access. I honestly think that this is the first step in NYC towards us getting a regional rail system like an S-Bahn or RER. But the fact that there are multiple challenges like 5 forms of electrification, multiple termini to serve, and lack of demand in certain trip configurations only compounds the issue of that kind of system not existing *yet*. Along with this expansion comes the new timetable, which probably won't be fully released until the end of January or early February '23.
With this done, the other projects mentioned are being planned/studied now, including IBX. Great video!
Jamaica is not on the outskirts of NYC for the city extends considerably further. Also the Atlantic to Jamaica service is supposed to supplement Subway service, essentially providing an express service, (Atlantic Ticket for $5) to and from that area cutting commute time considerably, basically adding another affordable mass transit option for those along that route.
That was an amazing exegesis. You really know your what you're talking about! Thanks for all the info!
Why does connecting Penn Station to Grand Central help with through running for NJT and LIRR when they already interface at Penn? As far as I can tell the only thing necessary for that to happen (besides political will) is for there to be four tracks instead of two under the Hudson River, which (a) is already happening (fingers crossed) via the Gateway program and (b) would still be needed even with a direct link between the stations.
Man was one of my greatest achievements worked on the east side access from 2017-2020
appreciate the positive review of a north American system. A full episode on metro north or LIRR would be great. I consider these system to be among the best of Europe and Asia
This was my dad's main project for engineering glad to see it working even though there are still some problems for it. It took about 20 years to design it which is pretty insane.
You have adopted the NYT style of titling your videos, which is only appropriate for a video about NYC
😂 nothing here was intentional!
A great clip. Always impressed by how RM can get his head around really complex systems and then describe them in an understandable way to people who know virtually nothing about them.
love your passion for transit systems. I would love to see the organizers of GCM do a "reactions" video to your review+analysis!
Rethinknycs project brings through running into penn station would be a game changer.
Agreed, it really needs to happen.
This massive project has so many interesting connecting bits. I hope you might do a video on them one day, like the reworking of the Sunnyside yards, the Harold Interlocking, triple tracking part of the mainline as well as its grade separations... I should see if you did an LIRR video. You've covered so much over the years, it's hard to remember!
I hope they do connect the two termini one day. Wouldn't it be great if NJ Transit, Metro North Railroad, and LIRR were merged into a massive S-banh kind of system with their standards all equalized, electrified, grade separated, ect.? It could be done, and it would create so many jobs and stitch up the region more! It's fun to dream about the possibilities as if the US had the capabilities of places like Paris, Seoul, Switzerland, or China.
I would so love this. When I visit family and friends on either side of Manhattan, and in Manhattan, I have to take several providers, switch payment systems, etc. It's time we brought the system up to the standards of other global cities.
A pity that NJT does not have Esst Side Access in Manhattan. Grand Central Madison tracks might have been extended south, then west to New jersey.
Thank you for this video. Excellent. I’m now a subscriber.
Great video sir.
Great job explaining everything
Good video. Very informative
I worked as a sandHog local 147 from 2011-2015 for ESA graveyard shift I loved the job hard work but loved it !!
Thanks for mentioning Brooklyn this time, perhaps you learned about the issue from the comments ;)
This presentation's criticism of the lack of through running has a lot of validity. Philadelphia's SEPTA Regional Rail achieved through-running with the completion of the commuter rail tunnel through Center City in 1984. This mimics the French RER system, which London's CrossRail also does. The New York Metro region has used a terminal approach for a very long time. The pattern was set over 100 years ago. Can a through track be constructed frm Grand Central to Penn Station? Possibly, as long as the stations can be connected by tunnels not requiring excessive grade rise or fall (less than 2%). The cost would likely equal the cost of East Side Access due to all the underpinning of buildings and subway structures. The author made another error: The LIRR will increase service, not decrease it, thanks to the third track being completed on the Main Line. The increase is compared with the current pandemic schedule, not the prepandemic schedule. As ridership continues to build, the schedule will too.
this woulda really helped me in 2009 when I had a suffolk - westchester weekend commute
Thank you for this good informative video! I am traveling to New York in October. Can you tell me where I can film freight trains?
Great video pretty detailed . Just two things the 3 tunnels exit at Harold interlocking not Sunnyside yard . The 4 tunnel loops around to Mid Day Storage north of Sunnyside yard .
Great video. Would be interested to hear your take on a South Station - North Station connection here in Boston!
Rail connection between Grand Central and Penn Station has been proposed several times, most recently as Alternative G in the Access to the Region's Core Study from 2003. It was ultimately scrapped due to costs and expected interruptions to the subway and water tunnels. However, the new East River access would make a future Penn-GCT rail connection even better. as it creates a potential NJ-Long Island link that stops in Grand Central.
Thanks for this great education sir!
I am looking forward to giving it a try. Though at this stage I would have expected them to actually have announced a service start date as it is now December 2022…
Great assessment!
I didn't realise the increased capcity this project will bring to MetroNorth - that's good, but as I always say, the idea of building a two story termini station, underground, in 2022 feels archaic.
If I was all powerful, I'd merge the entire transport system of NY-NJ into one and acutally get it all to work together. Subway, PATH, Rail, Buses, Light Rail, Ferries - one authority, one ticketing system, etc, etc., like Ile-de-France. The current way of working seems even less joined up than the crazy (but brilliant) Victorian England railway builders.
As someone who commuted from LIRR to Penn, taking the 1 uptown, then taking the shuttle to Grand Central, it's about time. I don't work in the city anymore, but man this would've shaved off a good half hour to 40 minutes of my travel time.
Sounds kewl 👍🏻
Great video! I would kill to have transportation like New York. Any chance you could talk about Cincinnati in a future video? I would love to hear what could be done to improve the city I live in. We have some bus transit and a, free to use, light rail that only goes around downtown. We also have an unused fully built subway system with no trains or track. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how you would improve this city.
Nothing really to talk about but missed oppurtunities and buses
Maybe sometime in the future!😊
Please do a video about the Tehran metro ( Iran) because it’s the largest metro in a region that is not known for public transportation. And it has plans to even expand. Thanks!
Having used both GCS and Penn Station on many trips in the past -Grand Central Madison is going to be a huge welcome to reducing congestion at Penn Station. If you are travelling from JFK - taking the LIRR from Jamaica Stn directly to GCS will be so much more convenient! I Didn’t about Metro North’s plan to operate into Penn Station
Absolutely I could not agree more!
Go listen to the Well There's Your Problem episode about penn station for some discussion of these problems with NY, and then go read the NY Regional Plan Association's Trans-region express plan for what actually should be done.
I think a cool future project would be to extend both the upper and lower tracks at GCM in different directions, say take the 2 of the 4 upper tracks and connect them to Penn station to allow through running between LIRR and NJT, but then take 2 of the 4 the lower tracks and extend them to a new crossrail style station in Lower Manhattan, and then continue on to connect to Atlantic Terminal, making a loop for LIRR trains, Long Island - Grand Central - Lower manhattan station - Atlantic Terminal - Long Island, and the same in reverse, meaning huge new commuter capacity plus better service to Brooklyn.
obvs would be a very expensive project, but would be a huge improvement to NY's transit, plus it would help to alleviate congestion on the Lexington Av lineby providing a faster alternative between Brooklyn, Lower Manhattan, and the East Side/Grand Central
I was hoping you'd do a video on East Side Access, I wanted to hear your take on it. I still think they need to build a direct connection between Grand Central and Penn Station. Growing up there, I know from experience that it's sometimes easier to walk between the two than take the subway with a transfer at Times Square (the busiest subway station in the entire city), but a single train connection would be better.
I take the Lirr in every day and take the 1 2 3 train to Times Square walk 50 yards to the shuttle to Grand Central. 12 minutes during rush hour. Now that the maintenance work is done on the shuttle it works great. Personally I would agree that instead of spending 12 billion on the East Side access I would have done a direct Penn Station Grand Central link. But the way I go is pretty good.
The money spent on East Side access could have been used to finally finish the second Ave subway. I think a station could have been built at Park Ave and 33rd St allowing commuters to debark there before the train continues onto Penn Station.
East Side Access should in mega NYC. What is very pressing is the Hudson River tunnels. How Amtrak and NJT have been able to squeeze all there trains in two tunnels is amazing. However, the tunnels need replacement along with new tunnels to expand capacity.
Love the QueensLink drop!
Image if the 2nd Avenue Subway extended to LaGuardia Airport? A 1 seat Q train ride from GCT.
It's nice to be able to go to grand central and get on LIRR to Jamaica where you can catch the air tran. Still silly it takes so many steps but makes it much easier either way.
Greatest example of LIRR incompetence is the UBS Arena station. They had a station at Belmont already but no they had to build a new one nowhere near the arena. They claim they didn’t have the capacity to run westbound trains into the station which prior to the arena was used once a year. But if they simply threw a quarter mile track down and a switch on mainline they could’ve easily accommodated westbound trains. But no they instead decided to build a whole new station not even 500 feet past Bellerose station which is already about 500 feet past Floral Park 🤦🏼♂️. They don’t think outside the box very well
Agreed that through running should have been a priority and hope it can one day happen in the future.
Another ambitious through running idea could be to run it south to lower Manhattan with a stop at Madison Square and WTC/Fulton St, then running into Jersey. An Elizabeth Line like regional service from Trenton to Ronoonkoma with direct stops in Lower and Midtown Manhattan!
Almost everything about ESA I might say seems to have been said my other locals.
I think the lack of coordination at Jamaica is unfortunate. One neat thing they used to do -- not sure if they still do -- is have three trains stopped at adjacent platforms and open doors on both sides of the middle train. People could then avoid the up-and-over by walking through the middle train.
If you want a "next project" what about connecting Hoboken to Atlantic Terminal via downtown Manhattan/Financial district?
An Amtrak stop at the GWB would be great. Just need the platform and a few elevators.
That's good NYC!
Thank you for doing a video on Grand Central Madison, it's a very exciting project. Alon Levy also recommended the following for Regional Rail for New York City - Part II;
- Connect Penn Station to Grand Central
- Extend the Atlantic Terminal rail line to Fulton Street in Manhattan, and then extend the line further north to Grand Central.
-Tunnel from Staten Island to Fulton Street in Manhattan.
-Build a rail line from Hoboken to Fulton Street and then on to Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn.
-Add a station in Queens along the new Metro North line (governor of NY already is committed to this I believe).
The only thing that I would do differently would be instead to tunnel from Staten Island to Brooklyn, and possibly run a partially elevated line along Gowanus Expressway to connect with the new interborough and Atlantic Terminal before moving on to Manhattan.
If anyone is interesting in seeing the map for this, you can find it in Regional Rail for New York City - Part II by Alon Levy.
Yea Alon has lots of interesting ideas
I live close to Herald Interlock and neighbors with the Woodside LIRR Station. I cannot wait to take the LIRR from Woodside to Grand Central instead of taking the 7 Train to Grand Central.
63rd street tunnel started construction in 1969!
Highly unlikely you'll see Grand Central Madison (not to keen on that name lol) connected to Penn Station for through running trains to NJ.
-LIRR, Metro North, and LIRR all use different ways to collect power on their trains.
-Along with the different power collection systems, they all use different signaling systems. The cost to convert them all over would be through the roof
-Funding would be the biggest obstacle. Both NY and NJ can barely come together to provide funding for the replacement Hudson River tunnels.
-Amtrak owns Penn Station
The M8 on the Metro North are Dual Mode which can Switch from 3rd Rail - Overhead & The MTA & NJT can convert the M7, M9, Alp-45 & 46, Multilevel 3, into Dual Mode Locos.
Since I don't know if it was made clear, something I should mention, as a Brooklyn native, is that the up-and-over crossing at Jamaica from trains originating in Atlantic Terminal is already something that commuters (like myself during my Stony Brook years) have had to do for a while now; GCM isn't going to start that. That isn't to say it isn't a problem, because it would be really nice to get more trains to Brooklyn and more trains to have uninterrupted service into Nassau/Suffolk Counties, it's just not a _new_ problem.
Let’s get that Sunnyside station
7:48 "Probably find a seat" then a B-roll shot of Moynihan with absolutely zero benches, lol
I would think one future benefit of Grand Central Madison is the possibility of extending tracks down Manhattan and crossing the East River to reach Atlantic Terminal in Brooklyn. In addition, I believe GCM allows space for a potential Sunnyside station in the future, in sum allowing for the creation of a "loop" railway line for Queens, Manhattan, and Brooklyn. It could somewhat be financed by the funds for the Second Avenue Subway, since the line would parallel that subway and become redundant. A couple of smaller stations could be added in Manhattan and Brooklyn, similar to SEPTA's City Center connection with Jefferson Station.
Hell, even without that connection, I'd push for infill stations on the Atlantic Branch.
And a regional rail station in Lower Manhattan would be good too. This would be great because then the trains can make a loop through Manhattan.
Literally not possible
@@sweetmyth2537 Well, not with the current Atlantic Branch terminus, anyway. A split close to Bedford Avenue, on the other hand...
In London, the Thames is just something to cross. In NYC, the Hudson defines where the far side of the moon begins. Given how the rail networks are Balkanized in the New York Area... the WSA is pretty amazing. You're right, Reece - a rail connection between Penn Stn and GCT would be ... grand?
Mental, isn't it? I'm amazed how there's two NYC Subway lines that just end at the Hudson, as if their isn't millions of people on the other side. It'd be like the Jubilee line ending at Canada Water. Politics just gets in the way far too much
Well, a subway crossing state borders would be a political nightmare for all parties involved. The PATH works cause it's the Port Authority that runs it.
@@whythehecknot5038 I know that would be difficult on so many levels, from political to engineering. Digging under the Thames is 'easier' than digging under the Hudson. I don't have an answer... unfortunately
@@whythehecknot5038 they should get creative. Extend it one of the lines and make it part of the Port Authority (still integrated of course), or even better create an independent transport operator, funded by NY & NJ. It's mad, Washington DC has an inter-state/district metro and in Europe we manage high frequency international rail routes (even tram routes). The political will just needs to be there, with clear citizen support.
You should do a video about Madrid's subway system!!! I believe it'd be really interesting
Just an FYI for anyone who didn't happen to know:
Grand Central also is the terminus of the New Haven line which goes up from Manhattan past the Bronx and has stop in Westchester County, NY before reaching into Connecticut.
The New Haven Line is part of Metro North. That’s why he didn’t mention it.
Jamaica is not the outskirts of New York City - it is in the middle of Queens, a large borough of New York City. Atlantic Terminal also serves mainly a residential area - there is no point of increasing the number of trains arriving there during rush hour
Eastside access is going to happen in December Penn Station access for Metro North this requires third rail up to the voltage change point because Metro-North trains cannot handle 25 Hertz system only Amtrak trains can do this
I was hoping that you would have explained the "transfers" in a bit more detail, and stated which LIRR train lines will be stopping at which stations. This info would be very helpful to a lot of people.
There are proposals to cover Sunnyside Yard and build something on top, akin to Hudson Yards (it helps that all streets that cross it are on viaducts). Amtrak is the only service that runs through Penn Station, and there have been proposals to run some Empire Service trains down to Grand Central on the Hudson line since it does go down that way until Spuyten Duyvil anyway.
I haven’t any proposal for the change of terminals for the Empire Service. Amtrak already ran trains there in the 2010s due to work on the Spuyten Duyvil bridge. But I haven’t heard anything about them doing it again.
I hope it’s less hideous as Hudson yards. The rail yard looked better before! It should be in a traditional style.
Would have been interesting to see more of a RER/Crossrail type hybrid metro service
@RMTransit, can you please cover Marta, Atlanta's rail system?
Just a heads up for people who take the 4,5,6,7 once you make your way up from the new platforms you will have to walk for access to GCT. Since you are by Madison ave you will have to walk to east side of terminal to get to the 4,5,6,7.
I support both, but I do believe Metro North as apart of the Penn Access should use the Empire Corridor between Spuyten Duyvil and Penn Station to run along the West side.