I Compared the CGC 9.9 Giant-Size X-Men #1 to a 9.6 Copy
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
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Timestamps
00:00 Intro
02:23 Back Comparison
09:13 Front Comparison
22:52 My Thoughts and Summary
CGC 9.9 with a spine tic: "I exist"
My CGC 9.2 with no spine wear or noticable defects at all: "🤬"
CGC is rewarding their high spending loyal customers. 😮
If it was a modern book I wouldn't be as judgmental on a 9.9 or a 10, but books from a bronze aged era or older is complete nonsense and matt has turned cgc authentication into a bunch of bootleggers
Ive learned one thing. It is what the label says. The label is worth 170,000
CGC and its benefactors are laughing all the way to the bank.
Love to extreme deep dive on this comic! Thanks again for bringing visibility to this travesty for the hobby.
The 9.9 grade was awarded to a large New York auction house called ComicConnect and Metropolitan Collectibles. They submit big books (Action 1 and Batman 1 for example) to CGC all the time. Dare I say it? A really good client of CGCs. This was a favor to their client, which you and I would not receive.
And I thought grading was anonymous? I sure hope this wasn't a gift grade...
Very good comparison and a thorough breakdown of the book. Much can be learned 🖖🏾
who is the original submitter of the book and what is their relationship with CGC? As it clearly is not a 9.9 i think it was done to create "buzz" along with the Wolverine LTD series #1 9.9's the purpose is to create a rash of new business via submissions from enthusiasts spending their dollars to chase the elusive number. I am getting weary of CGC to be honest, these graded books are just manufactured collectibles.
I have to say i have watched most of your videos and you have to be the best comic guy for cleaning pressing and just looking and describing the comic. I would say your better than anybody at cgc also. And this 9.9 giant size like you say is very shady and weird. And the 1 you did is alot better looking. Keep up the good work bud. From Scotland🤚
Great analysis!
Great video!
20:28 I can’t stop from starring at the dark spot on Wolverine’s “pinkie” claw - right about where the yellow and white meet in the background.
Not sure what that is, maybe just a shadow. I checked my original pictures that I took back when I worked on it and it's not there
@@ImproveCollectingComics I figured it was something like that - but that didn’t stop me from starring at it. 😃
That 9.6 has to be resubmitted for at least a 9.8, pronto! Great video.
Great Video
Wonder if Scott, Lois, or Tom knew how famous they would become? 🤔
Wonderful video as usual!
Happy 4th of July! 🇺🇸🎆
I sold my last CGC slab recently (a supposed 9.8 with easily discernible flaws that would put it in the 9.4 range at best for me personally) -- feels good to be done pretending that their grading standards are consistently accurate and objectively applied -- happy to be done with the charade!
After submitting over 1k comics, I am convinced some graders dont even look at the back of the book. Quick glance at most for some of them. So many books I will resubmit with flaws on back that get 9.8 2nd or 3rd time around
Wow, just wow
I sell on eBay. Mostly raw comics.
I give nothing higher than 9.6
Looking at the 9.9 I would give it a 9.2
Looking at the 9.6 I would give it a 9.6, and would consider sending it to CGC in hopes of a 9.8
On the back of both books.therr are defects in the red box that says Mail One Coupon Today. The 9.9 has very small. White marks between "other, to and friend. The 9.6 looks it has a color break after "O" in other. Just my observation but very nice books.
I personally feel they were very harsh on a few of my submissions. Guess it just depends on luck and the graders mood sometimes.
Nailed this; let's hope Matt Nelson can address these points?
Can you do an instructional video on how to press square bounds? I pretty good with regular books but struggle with square bounds and just avoid them
I don't have a ton of experience yet, but KaptainMyke's book does a good job explaining it
To me the color rub on the staple on the cover is not a 9.9. Any loss of color anywhere like that wouldnt be a 9.9 to me and i wouldnt expect that if it was my submission. Hell, i wouldnt expect a 9.8 with that color rub.
Same here
Do you think some of that Staple popping happened through being pressured into that inner well?
Possible but probably not. It's likely either stacking damage or clumsy pressing
CGC grader I’m grading this at 9.9
CGC senior grader rechecks, asks who submitted it? Oh, I agree.
I was able to tell the 9.9 in each section. For example lower left: I see printing defects in your 9.6 that is not in the 9.9. The 9.6 has three visually breaks in the black line ( i know not real breaks). There is also color flect on Thunderbirds leg. I also saw simalar diff on upper left.
I just didn't want it to be too obvious, I realize people have to suspend their disbelief a little bit while doing this exercise.
Great analysis!
You should start a pressing business only grading key books of high value. You could quit your day job.
As they say, buy the book not the grade.
The colors on the 9.9 look brighter imo. Like vibrant red compared to the 9.6. I’m not sure how much the colors mater for grade but the 9.6 looks more faded.
I think cgc doesn’t care much about staples issues on giant books. As they graded my silver surfer 1 similar. They have very high grade despite staples having gray color and slight hole
It's possible, hard to tell from photos.. but I did find my original photos of the 9.6 and it looks much better than the CGC photos do
@@ImproveCollectingComics thanks nan
That's messed up! CGC is up to something.
If that book is actually a 9.9 after all that shit, then 15% of all my graded books should 10s, 30% of all my graded books should be 9.9s and 40% should definitely be 9.8s! I have about 200 graded books...
CGC wants you to resubmit all your books 😂
@noell.4351 I got a book back from them recently that the grader notes said had "finger prints", I paid for their "cleaning/pressing" job. I emailed them why would it have finger prints causing my grade to drop if I had it cleaned and pressed? They said I can send it back in and get a credit for getting it "cleaned/pressed" again but I would have to pay for the shipping, the grading, and everything else. No accountability... I told them they run a good racket!
Hey Jim, Brady here. Sorry we could not meet up at Heroes. it would have been nice to talk to you. Maybe next year. I think you are spot on with cover side lower staple color rub issue and whatever is going on just above that staple. It's definitely hard to say just by looking at a photo. On the back cover to the upper left of the lower staple issues is the "soiling" , if it is just soiling, that should have been easily cleaned. If I were to buy 9.9 book, it should not have color rub, soiling, and should be centered. I don't think the presser/cleaner spent too much time on the book, maybe time constraints due to the volume of books that they get, IMO. Another fine video.
Thanks,
Brady
Thanks! I may get a booth next year, that'll make it easier
CGC, charging 4 percent of market value to grade has alot to gain in grading a 9.9
Very compelling evidence that the 9.9 is a misgrade. I did a similar comparison (not as a CZcamsr, just privately) of the silver age Thor with a grade of 10.0. It shows faded reds with ink loss in its tradedress which looks worse than existing 9.4s. It’s an old label CGC so maybe it was the best copy they’d ever seen at the time, but that shouldn’t justify a grade of “gem mint”. You should look into it…
I'll check it out, thanks!
I have submitted about 100 books, all ASM. When I make smaller submissions I tend to get stunningly low grades. When I submit a large amount of high grade books, the same issue, I get better results. (These are all Silver grade, some Bronze, some Copper.)
The most interesting submissions are resubmissions of PGX books. The grades are all over the place! I just got back an ASM 55, 9.2 PGX, as a CGC 9.4, 1000 dollar bump! But I also had an ASM 1 (restored) go from an 8.0 to a 5.5! Still worked out financially as PGX = horrible resale.
Send that 9.6 back in. It'll probably get a 10...
Great analysis Jim! Anybody who's been in this hobby for a while knows this book is NOT a 9.9. I don't understand why CGC pulls these "stunts" because all it does is hurt their credibility as an independent grader. Smells like a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch your back" favor for whoever owned the book.
Can you show grader notes on the 9.6??
Grader Notes
tiny crease left bottom of back cover
very small spine stress lines
@@ImproveCollectingComics so they don’t mention the staples. I wonder about these giant size books cu I have a 7.0 and it had bad staple push through and they say zero about it. Then I have 9.4 and it has some staple issue and they also don’t mention it. Hmmm
@@MetalBum It's called a grading curve, they are a little more lenient on the GS books cause of how they are made
its a paradigm shift in what a 9.6 is and a 9.9 is now, the only explanation is they are now allowing more defects to qualify as a 9.9, so what a 9.6 was now can be a 9.8
CGC is slowly hanging themselves.
I want to know who sold the book if they are one of CGC's big accounts because that will explain the favorable grade. I believe CGC will award their big accounts with 9.9 and/or a 10, while us small guys will get the 9.8 treatment .
The owner/seller was ComicConnect. An auction house and definitely a big player on the secondary market.
I can't determine the true color of the 9.9 it looks lighter when you compare it side by side with your 9.6.
CGC has become a revenue machine. I noticed this when looking at Bry’s comic/ Ivan Tao cover of Gang War: First Strike #1.
The Virgin got: 5- 10’s, 25- 9.9’s, and 20- 9.8’s.
The trade dress got: 50- 10’s, 200- 9.9’s, and 200- 9.8’s
Where else could you have such an even number of grades? Only in the “paid to grade” aisle.
The community knows this isn't a 9.9 as did the original "owner". Otherwise, why would they IMMEDIATELY put the book up for auction after getting the grade? Why not hold it for a long term investment? As far as grading, I believe they are giving 9.9s out for books without any spine tears and nicely squarded edges -- and overlooking other flaws in the book. And I'm only basing that off of the 9.9 video that CGC did, where the grader primarily was looking at the spines of the books.
If the person who bought the 9.9 cracked it out and sent it back in I'm sure it would get a lower grade. 😅
The 9.9 has a richer color strike so as you were showing different quadrants I could tell which book I was looking at.
@DavidClark-vu3dw assuming that person has money to throw around, it would be awesome if he/she did crack it, send it in for a regrade without sending the label (at first), and document the whole process... definitely would knock cgc off their pedestal a few notches, hopefully humble them too
@@RACALDERONRnot gonna do it with that $170k 9.9 sale
I would think that if I sent in that 9.9 book, I would be lucky to get a 9.6.
Same, pretty sure I'd get 9.4 with the grader's note "crease breaks color over staples, tiny hole on back cover over staple"
In my understanding centering DEFINITELY comes into play above 9.8. The fact that the claws and the backsplash are cut off at the bottom of the 9.9 has got to be one of, if not THE most damning observations of them all.
The bumps by nightcrawler's leg could simply have major light reflection going on, rather than wear. An extreme staple contour can have lighting off from multiple angles, obscuring the color presentation.
Possible but doubtful. The seller would have taken pictures without the "reflection" to make sure buyers knew it wasn't there.
Oh, and I saw it in person.. I could see the color break from different angles form 15 feet away.
I think the spine on the 9.9 is superior and that’s what CGC was focusing on. As you know square bound books typically get crushed spines. The lettering and lines on the spine of the 9.9 look really good. The 9.6 looks a tiny bit squeezed. I also think the 9.9 corners are superior to the 9.6 corners. Everything else you mention is valid but I think the spine and corners are the majority of the grade. Also factor in who owns the 9.9. I’d love to know who bought this book. The owner might have just bought it from himself to save face. It would be embarrassing if it sold too low.
I think you're right, some graders do focus too much on the spine. I'm not saying the 9.6 deserves a 9.8 or 9.9, I think they got the grade right.. but that 9.9 definitely doesn't deserve the grade it got. And I think the color breaks disqualify it right?
The process of checking it again.. even if there are defects.. The fact is that it was alreadygraded.. and the grade is what people see.. not the effort to regrade it correctly.. And to (In agreement of the owner..) regrade it and then sell at a loss..
And when they give you a 9.6 on a book you thought was better than that they don’t even give notes on why it’s not a 9.8 or more
CGC adds 9.9 to appease the masses. I will not grade a comic at CGC again.
You probably don’t want to get the most money for your comics either!
Just a matter of time before people won't buy a book in a newer slab.
Meanwhile thousands of brand new, unread, uncirculated books that get submitted on release day come back with a 9.8.
There's an offset printing of the red on the 9.9...like what? that 9.9 should be 8.9
That color break on the cover should've capped the 9.9 at 9.6, at best. CGC is blatantly trying to recoup their losses from the reholder scandal and the infuriating part is that it appears they're succeeding.
"A 9.9 can have a slight color breaking tic"... That statement alone should've been the point where everyone finally washed their hands of CGC.
A 9.9 cannot have a color breaking crease. It's definitional. Matt knows that.
"We do the best we can to get it right" Matt Nelson. This was an absolute failure on their part. AI grading can't come soon enough.
There is this reality too; Unlike probably everyone on this thread there is another universe of people who have Fk You $$$.
They have millions and now one of them has a 9.9 label on X-Men 1 GS!!
He doesn't care that the book has grading drama in the comic book world as he's got the 9.9 Label to show all his Polo playing buddies!!!!
Great point.. and you probably nailed it on the head. That book is probably on a golf course right now being passed around among a few CEOs.
I understood that cgc had more than 1 grader for a book like this.
The 9.9 grade is a gimmick to create high value Bronze Age book to put certain books at the same level as many Golden Age books. The new grail which can never be especially there’s millions of Giant-Size X-Men books out there and more being graded. The market is already getting saturated with 9.6 and 9.8 ! Now magically CGC is coming up with 9.9 X-men books? I don’t think so.
The 9.9 has a much sharper upper left hand corner as well as the other corners, go re-look at it and compare. Remember 9.9's are not completely perfect, 10s are.
Up until now, 9.9s have been basically perfect by CGC's standards
I have a 9.4 that looks nicer than the 9.9. 😊😊
I doubt it
So do I. Black cover, no color rub, no loss, no creases, no tics.
Unfortunately, collectors buy the label and not the book. Someone paid $170,000 for that label. I agree with you though. It’s only a $10,000 book at most.
I'm sure most of us have 9.8's that look better than this thing. I know I have a 9.8 that I honestly thought should have received a 9.9, there is nothing wrong with it. Seems like they are grading on a curve "this book is the best one we've seen" doesn't mean it belongs in a 9.9 slab
You hit the nail on the head! And I guarantee you it's not the best they've ever seen. You could probably find 10 9.6 or 9.8 copies for sale online right now nicer than that
CBCS would give it a 9.0
Probably lol
So everyone ones 9.6 is a sure shot 9.8 according to this logic
Maybe it's a 9.9 relatively speaking, I've seen some ratty GS X-Men 1 books get 9.8 lately
If the person who bought it does a CPR he would not receive a 9.9.
Cgc is pay 2 play
Unless we can actually look inside both books, I don’t think we can make any final determination.
The huge difference between these two books are the spine positions. They’re not at all similar. That becomes immediately evident even at a distance.
The corners on the 9.6 are also softer IMO.
Buy the book sell the grade
Amen
There is a 9.8 in the same submission that is better than the 9.9. I believe they mixed the two up and the 9.8 is the actual 9.9
Whoa.. great info, I'll check that out. Thanks!
I looked at it, you might be right! The other book even has much better centering and lacks the big color breaks.
If that is true, that's a massive mistake to say the least!
That wouldn't surprise me. I wonder if the person who slabs books is a grader as well or just some random employee. Also, if you're about to add the first 9.9 to a books population wouldn't you do everything to make sure it's truly the best example ever graded?
I watched this entire video and then looked at both the 9.9 and the 9.8 from this submission - and I have to say that the 9.9 looks nicer than the 9.8.
My biggest point of contention would be the markings near the top staple on the back cover of the 9.8 - and the markings from that staple itself. Also, the 9.8 has off-white to white pages, but I don’t know if that matters.
This is just my opinion. Maybe there are other factors that I just did not notice or take into account.
Clearly yours is a 10
Wow , surprised , CGC is a giant hustle ! It's total bs . The idea that .1 of a grade can have such a huge explosion of price is ridiculous .
Ya that's not 9.9 sorry , but 9.9 looks more like 9.4, 9.2.
That person who bought that book hopefully won't see your video. The psychology is that the grade on the label is gospel so no matter what you see with your own eyes the label rules. My opinion is that before you give a book a 9.9 or 10 that book goes to a minimum of 3 graders who have no knowledge of what the other graders graded it at then it goes to the head grader for confirmation. I'll admit I have no idea how many graders grade each book we send in. Is it one, two, etc. Last year I had a Wolverine 1 1988 CGC 9.8, sold it, the guy returned it because he said it wasn't a 9.8. I didn't really look at the book because I wasn't going to send it back to CGC. I resold it quickly. As annoying as it is buyers are going to have to do their due diligence by looking at the pictures if they want the grade that's on the label especially with high dollar books..
They have officially said that at least two graders judge the book
@@RACALDERONR Appreciate that. I probably should know that as CGC slabbing is part of my living, lol.
@comicbookchris3509 I'm VERY new to grading and did alot of reading & watching videos about it before sending them in this year. I think it was in an email of me asking questions and in a youtube video that they mentioned that at least two separate people do the grading
@@RACALDERONRthey have a couple graders but the second third graders look for less than a few seconds.
Whoever bought the xmen giantsize #1 9.9 just paid for the label. Buy the book not the grade. Come on man.
100% for sure
Naw, that 9.9 looks like a 9.2 at most. Maybe fudge a 9.4. No way it has that many noticeable defects and gets 9.9. The 9.6 looks like a 9.8 at lease in comparison.
This 9.9 book is cut perfect the 9.6 book is cut is slanted
How are wolverine's claws cut off if it's a perfect cut?
@@ImproveCollectingComics I'm talking about the book itself being centered. I own 3 copies of this book since 1977 at age 9 that I purchased 2 copies for $2.00 each and another for $6.00. 2 of my copies are perfectly centered were wolverines claws are fully visible while my 3rd copies is slanted up towards the right side. My copies range from 8.5
I thought 3 graders grade a book...how could they all agree that this is a 9.9....no way...If another gsx # 1 9.9 comes to market and looks much better...this $170k book will drop immensely
I've said this on your channel multiple times, CGC is a scam!!!!
It's all a gimmick 😂 It's whatever cgc wants to grade it. It's how popular books are graded harder and less popular books get the 9.8 always.
world class grading experts...hahahahahaha. At least he got that right...NOT!
Those who are new to this collecting game that fell for the non credible 9.9 grade crap are just idiots deceived by cgc commercial tactics to restore confidence and interest in their slabbing service. As anyone who is discernible to tell a truly mint new like condition vintage comic, the 9.9 is not in any sure way mint or well deserving of a 9.9. Just from the cover, we can see that colors are less than 100% sharp or rich, while the minty gloss of a new like comic is lost and faded just as the cover colors has faded and dulled somewhat if not substantially. Wake up and save your monies to buy nice affordable copies
I just got to say, you don’t know how cgc grades. It is a 9.4 to you. Your standards are not the same as cgc. They didn’t give it a 10. 9.9 is there for books that look nicer than a 9.8. If 9.9 didn’t exist I’m sure someone would complain and say how they’re 9.8 is better than another 9.8.
This is your worst video. Not just because of your biases, but because you're disingenuously comparing two books simply by their photos. Photos taken using different cameras, under different lighting, by different people. A comparison of the two where they were side by side would be more fair and accurate. You damage your integrity and credibility with this.
Wow did you even watch the vid? You're the one coming across as biased.
Sounds like you bought this book 😂
99% of content creators about this book used photos to analyze the the discrepancies so what's your point?
So if the photos were taken from the same camera would the damage disappear? A 9.9 Giant Size X men should look like it was made yesterday, this 9.9 does not look like it was made yesterday. A six figure book that there are known 9.8s and 9.6s that have better eye appeal shows this may have to do more with Cgc rolling out a pre screen 9.9 and 10.0 tier and boom, after years of grading a miracle 9.9 shows up right after the rollout. Now go back under your bridge troll.
@@terraxcell LOL
It didn’t “slip through the cracks”. The6 graded it for a friend and they knew what they were doing. CGC is a scam. I get it, you make a living off these slabs, or at least fund your hobby. But at the end of the day, they’re a scam.
CGC still sucks
CGC will be the downfall of comic books, I could go into a rant of what comic books meant to kids when I was growing up, but I've done all that before. I could give 2 shits if I had a 9.9 or a 7.0. they rate these books too high and you'll never flip them...price will be too damn high, but you'll always have that one sucker out there.
@@bigbabysld goes to show how “subjective” grading is. Originally developed for insurance purposes, and need strict guidelines for every era of book as printing has developed over the years. I only submit for protection.