FX Panthera liner vs solid barrel.
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- HI guys got a vid here today on the FX sub 12 Panthera, in this one we compare the original liner setup with a solid barrel. The barrel we use is a AirArms HFT 500 one and its noticeably better.
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Very interesting ..... hopefully FX will eventually start using solid barrels as their liner system is such a lottery with accuracy.
you have hit the nail on the head mate, it's a lottery and it shouldn't be
I enjoy your videos and this has answered a question I've had for a long time ,whether a solid barrel is more consistent than a fx liner and on this fx it sure is. Makes a mockery of the price tag.
It sure does, I must get my barrel machined 😁
thanks for watching 👍👍i have a bsa barrel on my m3 so i do prefer solid 😀😀
Fascinating results. You will have to start selling a service kit that includes a solid barrel 😊
Given that I know you tried a known good liner ( which was still poor ) I wonder what else it can be as we know you can get better results like you do on your super pimped FX M3
we will have a go and try to get the good liner shooting well, but doing a barrel swap was something we wanted to do to see if just swapping with no other changes would get better accuracy 👍
Great video, I love watching the machining .Amazed how much better it was with a normal type barrel .
thanks for watching, yes it is a big improvement over the liner
Another excellent video on barrels. I rewatch all your videos on barrel work and finally I did build up the courage to place my barrel in the lathe. Chamfered and linished breech, crowned and polished the barrel Now at 50 yards, 20mm to 15mm group. Thank you for your videos and your knowledge.
That's great news glad the vids helped 😀
As always awesome work guys and very well explained and your machining jake is sublime! 👏
thanks mate 😀
speaks for itself. lately ive viewed fx barrels as a thin tube with crimped end in a polygon format
i really wanted to like it.
this one is not good that's for sure thanks for watching
Bloody hell, you know what you're doing no doubt, I'm just getting into all this, you're videos are very informative, I'm going to watch the lot.
thank you glad you find them interesting 😀
As always the videos are great. Love the ingenuity that you guys bring to the table. That fx liner grouping is atrocious. As you said it would devastating to bring that home
it's a real shame it is such a nice gun to shoot, it will be spot on in the end i want this to be next seasons BR gun 😀😀
@@sub12airgunners I have every faith in you guys making this a beast of a gun.
Fell out of love with FX a long time ago. Spent £1100 on a brand new FX Bobcat MK 1 when it came out back in 2014. I believed the smooth twist hype. All was great until you pushed out beyond 35 yards. The groups would open up and even with a single shot loader/tray I couldn't get the thing to tighten up the groups. For an un-regulated rifle the consistancy was amazing. The build quality & engineering was first class too. I tried EVERYTHING. Back then there was no way/option to swap out the smooth twist barrel for a standard one. Sub 12ft lbs the rifle just wouldn't group. I got shut of mine, taking a huge loss and I've never looked at an FX again.
It's a shame but stuff like that does put you off
i think FX should give buyers the choice between a solid barrel and the liner system . i would buy a solid
Yes me too 😀
Hello Love the extensive work you made with barrel prep and comparison. I am from the US, My 22 cal and 25 cal are shooting Altaros slugs at 75 and 107 Ft/lbs energies at 0.75 MOA with carbon fiber sleeves/liners from FX (22 cal is Sup. Heavy and 25 cal Slug liner). Sound like crap liners which my 25 shredded lead with Sup. Heavy liner (to much choke), so FX usa sent the Slug liner now works v good.
The USA FX office is great with prompt parts send the next day to fix problems. In the UK they need to make 12 ft/lbs work out of the box or fix it ASAP! I love the form of the Panthera and it is the most accurate airgun I have seen. (well in +FAC energies)
i have to say i love the gun it's fantastic to shoot and in fac i think it will be a monster but in sub 12 it really is not that good, we will make it spot on and i hope it will beat my M3 in the end but out of the box it's very disappointing and i am not anti FX i have a fair few from fx 😔 thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 👍
Great content fantastic workmanship 👍👍👍
Thanks 👍
Very interesting, disappointing results from the standard gun, but I'm sure you'll get it sorted, even with the original liner!
Keep up the great work Jake (and Geoff)👍
it will be good in the end mate😀😀
First time I have found your channel, really interesting 👍
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 👍
Tidy Jeff , thats doubled it price. great work as always.
Thank you 👍
Amazing improvement 👍🏼
Thank you! Cheers
Some difference 👍👍 ,I'd say there are a few embarrassed people around who supplied the expensive piece of equipment ,as you said if you couldn't do this yourself what would you do ,
I hope we was unlucky and there are not to many about like this one
Staggering result from a top brand, the normal UK buyer would as you say be extremely disappointed
Yes i just hope we were unlucky and there's not to many more like it
Only a target rifle once you have completed this swap, shame FX have not sorted this gun before it was sold
These FX 'straw' barrels are just a cheap alternative to the early FX rifles when they used proper LW barrels
It is a shame but hopefully i was unlucky and there's not to many out there like this one 👍👍
I've seen a few comments from others about how bad they are for a claim of it being a target gun fit for barn door shooting
You should change the pinprobe for a Pelletprobe....i got an impact mk2 and an m3....some time ago i had the Same Problem....i would say that Pelletprobes are loading your pellets way more straight in your barrel.... Give it a try.... regards from germany
We have the pellet probe in the gun at the moment
Always a joy to watch your videos. is this where that rifle finishes , or is it just the start ?
this gun is now a mission to make it as good as we can 😁
@@sub12airgunners Im glad to hear that .
Exceptional thanks for this video
Glad you enjoyed it
Another very informative video , my personal experience of fx barrels is a bit disappointing having owned 2 both needed constant barrel cleaning to achieve anywhere near decent groups in the end I sold both !! Very frustrating
It is a shame but hopefully i was unlucky and there's not to many out there like this one but the more comments i reed it seems like i am not the only one
You decide to sell these I’d buy one to test with either my 700 or compact hunter. The barrel system for a “rifle built for accuracy” has way to many parts that are able to move around with the slightest bump causing POI changes. Beautiful work on that. A good machinist and lathe operator is a art.
yes i agree to many parts the solid barrel has transformed this gun 😀
Excellent video as per usual love to watch your strip downs and modifications and am fascinated by you machining skills.
Would love to get a solid barrel for my FX Impact M3 as my .22 barrel doesn’t seem to be as accurate currently as my HW100KT .177.
thank you and thanks for watching 😀
Great work as always Jeff, wow the difference, you would think for the price of rifle it would be spot on, thats what your paying for, so much for quality control doing there job, if that was me, i would have taken it back and told them where to shove it lol Cheers 👌👌👌👌👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
It is a shame but hopefully i was unlucky and there's not to many out there like this one 👍👍
Very interesting video 👍🏻
Glad you think so 😀
Interesting that the accuracy wasn't much better after the liner modification. There seem to be a lot of reviews out there claiming superb accuracy, so you would like to think that the rifle would have better capability out of the box, preferably without machining a new barrel to suit!
thanks for watching 😀 yes it's a bit disappointing, i really hope we was unlucky and there's not to many more out there like this one
Excellent video as always 👍 I was going to buy a new Impact M3 but as they use a very similar liner system I'm not so keen now! Will probably go for a Airmaks or AGT now instead 👍
The AGT is a fine gun for sure it is a shame about the Panthera but we may just be unlucky
@@sub12airgunners would you recommend a krait?
Not the first Panthera I've heard of having accuracy issues. I have a DreamTac Compact and a Impact M3 and they are both excellent. The Panthera is obviously designed for full power and the Sub12 is an afterthought.
i think you could be right 👍👍
Thanks to legions of FX boyz who have created so much buzz & halo.
At sub 12 speeds it's basically a smooth bore pellet need to be stabilized by twisting rather than dragged in the liner.
You can try it again with a superior heavy slugs liner which has deeper grooves and higher twist.
Moreover liner will continue to flop inside the barrel sleeve even when you have a tight jam nut...you are a smart machinist you know better.
we will have a play with the liner setup but a solid barrel it just groups well with no other changes made 👍👍
The FX 'STRAW' is rubbish and they moved away from proper LW barrels simply to make more profit. £1900 is a heavy price to pay for a rifle like that...
It is a shame but hopefully i was unlucky and there's not to many out there like this one
They have done a ton of research with their barrels, I believe that they are the industry leader.
They bought the system off Ben Taylor of Theoben. Each liner cost them about £2-3 to make, it is a cheap, inconsistant and nasty solution at FX prices, but yields hundreds of £ profit over a proper LW barrel.
I don't think FX do a professional job on sub 12 ft,and for the price they charge it is disappointing WH would not let these out the door , again enjoyed your video'👍👍
thanks for watching 😀 yes very disappointing
Good follow up video showing that a simple barrel change gets it to here other brands are out of the box. Totally agree its unacceptable and the average person would just return the rifle. Why don't they go back to using the original smoothtwist barrels that were in the wildcats....they were excellent, as were (are) the LW barrels. Looking forward to the up and coming tweaks to see if the groups can be improved upon.
Thanks Tim, yes they are doing so much the stiffen up the liner they should just go back to solid setup, there's just to many bits now liner stiffener, shroud stiffener, barrel clamp, jam nut, outer sleeve, connection peace, liner, etc so many parts 🙄
Heyup chap, having to prototype a nineteen hundred quid gun is not on at all, let's face it the launch at the gun show in February didn't go well, loads of people & some reviewers have had bad results, I personally will not be reviewing the Pantsera as I don't want any part in promoting a bag of nails for an overhyped over marketed gun, good luck with it, cheers buddy, Jon 👍 Hawkes Eye TV 👍
it's not good 2.5in groups at 50yds is very poor they did go down to about 1in when we shortened the carbon but not a target rifle imo, a real shame it is such a nice gun to use if it was accurate it would be perfect 👍
Enhorabuena por el Sub
thank you 😀
Devastated??? You’d be fuming spending all that money and getting those results and I love my FX
yes you would but we are hoping we have been unlucky and there's not to many out there like our one 👍
@@sub12airgunners I’d hope so but with the issues I’ve experienced with my Dreamline lately I would be surprised if it was isolated. Keep up the great videos, I find them fascinating to watch
Love you videos, are you just a tinkerer (amazing engineer too) or do you repair or make bits for customers?
thank you, no sorry we only do our guns we don't do this commercially it's just for the vids 😀
Your skills my friend are amazing, my thought is that's a lot of money for someone to spend and get a gun that needs fixing.
thank you 👍 it is not good i agree
Night and day difference with the hft500 barrel. Makes me actually want to use the wolf I got from you and dad with the hft500 barrel more. I probably only shot 200 pellets since i had it :(.
yes the HFT 500 barrel takes some beating 😁
Hey, the carbon fiber sleeve should be long enough to allow the jam nut to tighten down on both the liner and sleeve. The sleeve should be slightly longer to make the jam nut compresses it.
our one the liner had room to move back and forth by 5mm at least🙄
My i ask what solid barrel you have used thanks and love the videos
thank you 😀 i was a re-worked AA HFT500 barrel 👍
Interesting.
thanks for watching 👍
The magazine lid is bigger to take longer slug I believe so pellets have room to move around mre maybe the probe is not quite pushing the occasional pellet slightly crooked at first causing some pellet damage
on the sub 12 it is thicker but not opened out so for sub 12 it's the same as a standard mag, i did single load in to the barrel and it was the same, so not a mag issue 👍👍
I've only made about 10 of these type of thimbles/sleeves but found that threading them is far superior to a sleeve, which is likely to move; especially on FAC.
I didn't see the cutting of an internal O ring. I realise it must be a nightmare to video such but would be interesting to learn from your professional approach to such in detail.
Thanks and regards.
we have threaded them before but for sub 12 we just make a nice push fit and bond them on, this barrel already had the o ring groove in but i think we show cutting one on the M3 vid 👍👍
Enjoy your videos. Was going to spend the 2K here in the US to get one. After watching your video, I will hold off a few more months and see what happens. I though the FX would be a tack driver. Looks like you have to work on all of the PCP rifles now no matter the price. truly a disappointment. Best wishes on getting the rifle fixed.
The Daystate alpha wolf you don't. It's an absolute tac driver.
Try one out somewhere, you'll be sold. Especially in the US where you don't have to tolerate sub 12ft/lbs
thank you, yes it is a shame but i will say all the high power fx rifles i have shot have been good so it may be a sub 12 lbft thing, thanks for watching
nice 😀😀
🤟
I'm thinking about LW barrel but I tensioned the liner in housing on my Impact... and I don't have longer any problems in shooting ... Shoot groups 50mm on 150-175m with cal. .177
we tried that on my impact and it worked but we got poi shift every time we put the gun away and got it out again
Yes , i have also POI shift but it's only 2...3 turret clicks different ways on 75-100 meter. I think it's air temperature responsibility for this... difficult to say. But anyway it's much much better than fx barrel
I love my FX Maverick, and how it shoots slugs at 50, 75, & 100. A solid barrel would be preferable, but so far, shooting well out of the box. Could this be a problem with the sub 12 versions quality control?
all the FAC fx rifles i have shot have been spot on so it could be a sub 12 thing
My Black Widow catapult from the 1990's was more accurate than that FX barrel :D.
yes i remember them and it would have been better for sure 😂
saw your LW barrel for the impact .. after watching that .. if I had a barrel made for my Panthera .. can I integrate the tranfer port on the Panthera like you did the impact? or do I need to have the transfer port in brass ?? on LW website the barrel is non choked I have a .30cal
I’d be well upset if I had given 2k for that. Good work 👍👍👍
yes it is a bit disappointing that's for sure😀
🤔🤔Very interesting.
😀
I have just got an impact M3 sub 12 which is exactly the same there has to be some sort of barrel issues going on, I just sent mine back to sportsman's gun centre, also the gun came set up with the slug transfer port instead of the pellet port, fx must have some quality control issues going on not good for a £1900 gun
No that's not good, i hope you get it sorted
@@sub12airgunners thanks mate, keep up the good work on the vids been watching for a while.
I take it you’re not going for a sponsorship then 😁
🤣🤣🤣 i think that's well and truly gone mate 😂
@@sub12airgunners I mean what do you want for a two grand target rifle 😂
Nice video. I had my fair chair of trouble with FX liners. Did work some over with good results. But my Alfa 177 700 barrel shoots lights out with 16 gr slugs. It is fac were you are though. That said have some issues with an CZ 700 .22 barrel. That all in a Crown mk2.
we have got some to be very accurate and we will have a go with this one, it's just a shame that they don't all work out of the box
Get the place you bought it from to send you another barrel im sure that would fix the issue the barrel movement may have caused some minor damage
I have 3 fx guns and all perform well but manufacture issues can happy to anything
we have tried another standard barrel on the panthera and it's ok but not target rifle good, i agree you can get problems with any gun that's for sure
I have an Impact suffering from similar problems, it'll put 4 or 5 through the same hole then move 1/2 inch to the right or down or left there dosen't seem to be reason apart from the liner is
moving inside the carbon sleeve. It's not the tightest fit on the liner. What's your thoughts on flooding between the outer tube and the liner with either epoxy or fibre glass resin, that is at least guaranteed to fill every space allowing absolutely no room for movement ?, or drilling some small holes spaced along the carbon sleeve and forcing either loctite or superglue in to ensure solid
contact between the liner and carbon stiffener.
we did get some improvements by flooding the the gap between the liner and the outer tube with epoxy on my mk2 impact but we still couldn't get it as good as the solid barrel 😀
What do you think to using loctite bearing fit between the liner and one of the FX carbon stiffeners, that's if you haven;t tried this already I know you have done some pretty extensive testing with this kind of thing.@@sub12airgunners
i tell you what i would be fizzing if i had paid that money and it shot all over the paper like that for sure . and if i buy one your definitely getting it for a new barrel 🤣🤣🤣🤣( just kidding mate i know you only really work on your own stuff ) great job my friend just goes to show to be fair fx definitely need to step up there qc that rifle should not have left the factory like that in my opinion
fx dont care they are gimmick guns where you have to buy a load extra crap to make it usable and by the time you have nearly paid for that a new gimmick gun comes out
Yes it would be very frustrating, but this one will be spot on in the end that's for sure😀 thanks for watching
Interesting. I do n't suppose you know if it is possible to change the barrel on a BSA Lightning to maybe a CZ or Lother Walther barrel?
i would think so we have great success with CZ
@@sub12airgunners The BSA Lightning is a break barrel rifle, so would this still be possible?
Hello, do you think it would be possible to machine a standard Panthera transport onto a LW barrel blank, I'm learning how to use a friends lathe to give it ago, I was thinking about taking the original transfer port down similar to what your doing above. Many thanks!
yes it would be, i have done it both ways i have fitted the brass T/P to a solid barrel and i have machined the T/P on to a solid barrel 👍
Way interesting video!
FX really messed up that one. Hope it was just one or two outta many, and not a bignrun of liners with this issue. The darn thing ain't cheap. My initial interest in FX has dropped noticeably these last years.. At some point I wanted an Impact mk2 - but nowadays I ain't much looking towards FX no more.. So many other sweet air rifles out there nowadays that I'd rather own..
I have to agree i have had a lot of FX rifles and i am sure there getting worse, but i think we have been unlucky and got a bad one i hope there's not lots like this one
@@sub12airgunners Now since seen your videos of the BRK Ghost, I've been yet again drooling after a Brocock Commander. I'd gladly rather pay for a Brocock than for an FX nowadays. But I still hope FX has just had a few unlucky lemons..
Wouldn't fx be better off with a solid barrel on the gun? I understand that the straw barrel is easy to process and the price can be kept down, but the barrel is the most important part.
if fx placed a big order at lothar walher they wil get a decent price , air arms is using lothar and many more even crosman in certain models
They're charging 1900 quid 4 this gun. A quality barrel should come as standard
A thin barrel or an unpolished crown is a lottery. Some are good, some are bad. In my country the fx aiqgun is $5000 expensive, but when it comes with a bad barrel, I can't just replace the barrel. I want you to attach a good barrel from the beginning.
yes we are lucky we can fix them so it would be very frustrating if we couldn't
Does this issue also applies for the 700 mm panthera? I believe it has a different liner/barrel im not sure. you info on it would greatly help me. Thx.
Not sure on the 700mm
Not sure if it’s going to help you here but maybe try a airstripper? See if that has any effect.
we will try a stripper 😀
@@sub12airgunners 😃
Solid barrels is always good choice thats why i like Cz guns Fx airgus have too many parts And too many complicated things not a easy to get better result from it
yes solid is the way to go imo 😁
This tells us a lot about the liners "lottery" Has this ever been done in a M3?
yes my M3 has a bsa barrel 😀
Hi, you don't show the lathe work on the front of the barrel where the spacer for the shroud fits, did you thread the barrel or create an adaptor I ask as I have seen barrels threaded before only to slacken the choke and render it useless.
we did put a 1/2 unf on the end the AA barrel is fine to do this on but some barrels it's a no no like steyr barrels
Thanks for that.
Sad thing is its not just the Panthera, maverick is the same sub 12 out to 35-40 its ok over that its a shot gun, as you said there is a point of impact change for no apparent reason, BRK GHOST any day of the week, KEEP up the videos great insight to guns and machine work.
the ghost is on another level 😀😀
Hey, I have the same problem with my Panthera .25 -700. It shoots terrible. Can you make a barrel for me?
My panthera is 1 hole straight out the box
Also true for my maverick when fired from a vice or the bench. I wonder if this is a sub 12 problem!?
It could well be i have not shot a fac one or it may just be our one that's bad but it is very bad
What this really needs is the gun taking back to the factory and the barrel tested to see what the problem is! Then answer the question as to how it passed QC!
Jeff you still haven't answered my question as to if you would be willing to machine a UIT slot into my SabreTactical ARCA rail. Show clever folk at SabreTactical what they should have done to enable prone shooting with a sling. Yes I have contacted them and they were totally useless!
yes the test every gun thing must have missed this one, sorry we don't take on work for people we do our own for the vids but that's about it sorry
@@sub12airgunners Hi Jeff, what is your recommendation regarding the barrel to shroud spacers? Remove them? spacing and how many? Cheers
Improve the FX performance by binning it and using an entry level PCP instead.
😂😂
Yeah pretty sad, especially how much they're pushing this rifle & the new dynamic. I've seen so many threads on how you'd better carry extra o-rings in the field because the gun leaks all the time.. A real shame.. Unfortunately not everyone is a master smith with knowledge to fix these on top of having all the special lathes & mills yadda yadda.. Good luck to all that own one
yes it's not good we haven't had any leaks yet but it didn't shoot well
Do you or do you know anyone that’s sells custom solid barrels for the Panthera ?
no sorry i don't
I had a maverick a couple of years back and that grouped just as bad.
yes mate not good for the money
DEVASTATED 😂😂😂
I would guess they are better in 22 and 25 as the liner is bigger and stiffer. From my experience the choke is way too tight without polishing it out a bit. Might make some improvements if the liner is bonded to the carbon Steve with JB weld perhaps.
Sad thing is that FX never inspected or tested it. If they did , their standards are very poor indeed.
yes it seems like FX are doing everything they can to make the liner stiffer with the carbon and barrel clamps etc, it does look like something is moving in the barrel setup
Ugh what a toilet. It would interesting to see if another Panthera from another source groups as poorly. The QC at FX has always been suspect but this is just bad. If you guys can't fix it, it can't be fixed. Too bad because it's a wonderful idea of a rifle, I still want one despite it's terrible performance.
it is a fantastic gun to shoot and when we get it spot on it will be a delight to shoot😀
I am sure it's a gem in the rough.. It has amazing features and the form factor is straight off my wish list. @@sub12airgunners
Reminds me of my old maverick.groups shown were the same as seen in ur video but at 20-30 yards.made me hate shooting thought it was me then used my bsa and it was good.FX I believe u need to know how to stripe them down and rebuild then mess with all the settings.I am 100% FX is not for New shooters if ur new stay away from FX my put u off shooting .I started with a BSA R10 it shot great not everyone fav but for me shoots good and fare price.
that's it if you like it and it shoots good that's all you need 😀😀
Just come across this.Have always told people for 40 years now.All barrels are not the same,even solid barrels with top producers.You can get a bad one.I do not like the fx liners,and think they use them to make cheeply.Fx rifles are so over priced.AEA make some of the best barrels out there and simlar to a fx and half the price.Fx know they are not good.thats why they sell carbon liners and tensioners.Why should you have to buy extra from them to try and get it to groupe.Why is carbon liner not already fitted.
FX, The Tesla of air guns.
😂 not herd that one 🤣🤣 brilliant
Sad when you pay big money for an FX and the "QC" is piss poor and has to be remedied by a third party 🤔
yes i have to agree
Fx are making junk these days ill stick with my Rti Prophet 1 2 and p3 i think
yes lots of good alternatives about now 👍
basically the fx as it comes is crap
This one was that's for sure