TF2: Let's talk about Pyro
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- čas přidán 4. 12. 2017
- Hey, it's been a while since we've done non spy stuff, eh?
How about a little mmph about mmph pmmhp hmpphh hhtpmm?
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Jedi's video on the flamethrower particles I keep mentioning but forgetting to link outside of the comments section:
• Jungle Inferno flameth...
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Outro music is by jukiokallio.com (used with permission)
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For those of you who didn't really understand his rant about the particles, here's the basics:
As pyro, with the new particles, as long as you hit one of them, the rest register as a hit. You can imagine that as you hold down m1 the amount of particles that come out, and they all hit. On top of that, each particle has the ability to hit more than once. Then, you can use the back burner to get close up to the enemy, and if the flames end up going behind the player (which they will since they're broken as hell), you'll get crits.
Hope that helped, thanks. There are many other broken things about pyro than his particles, just thought I'd touch on this topic.
Edit: another thing I forgot to mention is the fact that if you're running forward, the flame particle range is shorter, and vice versa for running backwards.
Wubasuarus Rex yeah isnt it funny that pyro mains think its fine or dont care to tell people that pyro became broken. Its sad that now you can fight pyros has scout because if they hit you once you will die in a sec.at least the dragoon fury is kinda need to aim even know hit boxes are huge.
No. That's fucking wrong. Pyro's fire does damage over time. That means that one particle does the same damage as all the particles: 0. What's doing damage is the time an enemy spends in those particles. It does 8-10 damage every .075 seconds. The first particle bug... is a myth. The 117 damage meme is actually nearly doing minimum damage.
oh so THAT explains why i kept dying a second after killing that w+m1 gibusvision pyro !
Neopolitan so does that mean that if you shoot 199 particles next to a player and hit him with the last particle, will it do the damage of 200 particles?
BlueKirby I don't know exactly how much. It's the combination of how many particles there are and how much damage does. That's up to you to research, bud.
Hey, I've been thinking of branching my commentaries out to other classes (again)(like it's 2015 again)
Thoughts? 🐔
a Woolen Sleevelet demoman would be fun!!
I would love your insight on more classes 🐓
Yes
Play sniper mr woolen. Please acquiesce
a Woolen Sleevelet I think you need to do some research before claiming shit is bugged and broken. Thus far, I have only seen TWO actual bugs. One: your particles are affected by you momentum. Two: backburner bug.
You are completely and totally fucking wrong about a single particle instantly landing all the damage of all the particles. Particles don't do damage anymore. What does damage is time spent in those particles. Now stop spreading this bullshit. Pyro is meant to be the most deadly class in his reach.
The gibus pyro from 8:08 wasn't wearing the gibus
Gibus doomsday edition
Your hit sound really does turn the flamethrower into a continuous sneeze gun
High quality ASMR.
I got weird boner by it
I agree. I kind of main pyro and hearing that W+M1 is now the way to play is..... the most unbelievable thing I heard. A meme that is actually good now.
I hope they don't keep it this way. There has to be better methods to buff pyro. (I mean I know they just gave him his own update but I wasn't happy with some of the changes.)
Good news the blue moon update broke the flamethrower ,again and the panic attack is the best puff n stinger right now
Tf2 is weird
Thanks for featuring my stuff.
they're very useful videos
Woolen I'm so glad you're spreading awareness of how broken pyro is. Wherever I bring it up I'm just ridiculed for "having trouble with the noob class". The moment the general public becomes aware of this the servers will be filled with seizure pyros and Valve will have to do something. It seems like for now they're just ignoring it or aren't aware of it.
I'm getting more and more worried on how long it's taking them to fix the flamethrower exploit. I really hope they won't just leave it like this
How awful that Pyro is now *almost* as effective as Soldier. NERF NOW!!1
I just wanted to say that I love your intro. Nice and short, and the lonely calm vibe it gives me always gets me in the mood for one of your videos. I wish I could turn it into a live wallpaper with the rain and music for my desktop.
Thanks man
You can turn it into a live wallpaper
honestly, i love this channel for it's dry humor, it gets me to laugh the most
genuinely makes me sad, there is no point in "learning" pyro anymore. Until valve fixes this shit which I still hope they will
Flames range should be reduced when walking forwards (like it used to be), and increased when walking backwards, and for the love of God if they inverted airblast so aiming up would push people up and aiming down pushes people down that would make things so more consistent so you won't have people that sometimes bounce or not. I do miss the old flames but hey ho. I can still make degreaser and shotgun work but it would be nice if it wasn't smooshed into the ground.
Airblasting the ground sends people up as well, really fun with flares and such but not all that useful when your dps is so high regardless
Ok did or didn’t Gabe Neuel say “spy is my favorite class” and I quote hmmmm pyro has the most cosmetics hmmm pyro has the second most unique play styles IVE DRAWN A CONCLUSION he doesn’t like playing spy D:
Excuse me you smelly man, but you're supposed to be a Spy main, how dare you play any other class? UNSUBBED.
(ι´Д｀)ﾉ
Pyro can deal consistent damage. That's good.
He doesn't have to put effort into it.
That's bad.
The issue with Pyro was never a high damage output, hell, it still might need some tweaking to compete with other combat classes right now. But his damage seems to be fine for now. What needs some looking at is his particles.
The flamethrower now travels in a tight consistent cone that slows down at maximum range. A common issue experienced here is the flame boxes hitting too many times with 1 click. While problematic, it's not exactly detrimental to the enemy in a real game where everything and everyone is moving away and to everything and everyone. This is probably because it shares similar properties with the Bison, which penetrates and hits for multiple hits.
Next we have his flame boxes. If you use sv_cheats 1 in console and toggle the command: tf_debug_flamethrower 1 you will be able to see the particles in their cubed glory. You can also see that they're fucking huge. But you can change the size with the command: tf_flamethrower_boxsize with the default value at 12. Personally I enjoy 6 but you can lower the numbers and experiment what seems to be better suited to a tracking weapon the flamer is supposed to be.
Finally we have the issue of hit registration. The particles do not need to hit every time to deal full damage and this is where the w+m1 stigma really comes into play and where people start quitting the game and breaking their computers because they're in range of the close combat class. Mini rant aside, the particles are not exactly working to where they need be. Solutions?
Make the Flame Thrower particles register damage per particle again.
Make the cone tighter and the hitboxes smaller to make keeping your crosshair on somebody effective.
Adjust the particles to not hit multiple times.
A few more Pyro changes:
Reduce opacity on flamethrower particle effects / darken them to a lighter orange rather than a blinding yellow.
Dragon's Fury receives more range and a smaller projectile box. The fireball shouldn't penetrate enemies anymore and instead deal small splash without afterburn with the direct hit burning the player only.
That's my 2 cents on what needs to be done to Pyro which probably could've been shorter but I explained why he has these problems in the first place for people who may not know.
k bye
good thoughts
But why does it matter if it takes skill or not?
Heavy doesn't take effort to play but he's still a balanced class regardless of it.
You e heavy is slow and has rev up time, and bullets don't fly everywhere so he has to keep his cross hair on the target for damage
Patrick Flores
That's just basic aiming.
I love that you love the Thermal Thrusters! Giving Pyro a jetpack was brilliant and I love it.
6:40 HEY EVERYBODY THE PYRO TRAIN HAS ARRIVED
W+m1+random mouse flicks=pretty much immunity to spies. God i despise those pyros so much
It is almost like Pyro was made to counter Spy.
Nico #1325 It's almost as if you should have to try to get kills instead of being stupid.
I think your forgetting that the spycycle/deadringer combo is a thing it basically makes Spy immune to pyros
People think that pyro being powerful as an attack class is bad? I mean they need to fix some things like the backburner and maybe the particles need some changes, but the pyro is still a normal speed class with demoman health and easy to counter. Also, i use the shotgun on pyro and its better than holding m1 in most situations, specially against dumb pyros that think they can stand a chance doing that. But its ok, its just an opinion
Internet Wanderer thnx ^^
Thank god for the weather waking me up.
This spy gameplay looks weird, never knew that spy got a fire revolver. Seems broken.
Just found your channel and I am already in love
hello
haii
No I need sleep Woolen it’s 5am I just finished making a video and watching tons of esports videos about CS and Rocket league... now I have to watch this! :p
slep now
Is that a sneak peak 0.0
Spot on pyro voice
Nice to see papa woolen play your main^^
Pyro is now a figit spinnar.
I have problems with back burner it works only when im exactly 90° behind my enemy
Love these videos wish more could come out tho
As broken as the particles are it's good to be able to deal damage on level of an offense class for once
TeemoTheScientist i agree
Teemo are you going to make a second channel for Dota2 because I would really like to see more of it? Also there are only a few Dota2 channels that are friendly(nontoxic and not mono-toned) and creative with their commentaries compare to the numbers of TF2 channels.
it would be good if it took skill to deal that damage, and it still would be too much
Kindrov I'm just a 2k player though, mu opinions on the game does not matter at all, but I will post more moments of the game on my main
Shane W Are you incapable of understanding humour
this makes me miffed in several ways
It's like the Dr.Enforcicle of Pyro.
woolen you make me want to play pyro. stop this, immediately and instead give us a woolHehe in the chat eh?
woolHehe
I've said that pyro is broken since the update came out in youtube videos. People where complaining and saying no he is ok you are just bad and you can't coutner them or you are not used to them. But as the days pass I find more and more people agreeing with me. Pyro is just stupid right now. Killing people with 2 or even 1 particle seems way too broken to me. And pyro mains just tell me that I'm salty when I complain about the class. When I die to a pyro over and over again I cannot accept that he is a good player and has put many hours into the class to be able to do that, anyone would be able to do the same thing. I might get mad when i die to a demo or a sniper but I accept he's good. Please valve fix these shits and make a comp update as soon as possible...preferably in the xmass update...that would be great and also revert the amby to its old form... and nerf the diamonback.
p.s. love ya wool
"And pyro mains just tell me that I'm salty when I complain about the class. When I die to a pyro over and over again I cannot accept that he is a good player and has put many hours into the class to be able to do that, anyone would be able to do the same thing."
*coughcough*Ambassador*coughcough*
I'm a pyro main and i'm not the biggest fan of the state that pyro is in now tbh
I like people who get mad over pyro, its funny to troll them
I used to main pyro before the update came out, now i just play it sometimes running stock, i want the old pyro
Hey what’s your opinion of the Gas Passer? I’ve found that it is very situational and not great
I didn't know you could reflect the Dragon's Fury I guess I just need to get the timing down on it.
12:13 : the meat and potatoes of TF2
Oh god, they added the Quake Champions Lighting gun... now everyone's gonna shake their mouse like a mad man and do 1 billion damage.
and this is why ENGIE NEED TO ROTATE TELES
One pyro shouldn't be able to take a level three sentry
Pyro still can't effectively. Pyro can hang back out of a sentries range and shoot flares at it or use the shotgun on it. Pyro can also damage the sentry with the flamethrower then run behind a wall then repeat to kill a sentry.
Boy oh boy are you in for a treat.
Okay then?
the dragons fury is extremely good at destroy sentries since you can shoot its projectile around corners
I remember first time I reflected dragon's fury which did a shitton of damage on them because I was s+m1'ing them and they were "on fire" already, though I wanted to just push him away, not instakill him, that's unfortunate, but funny and confuses them indeed.
How did you get the real Pyro voice actor to do your intro, Woolen!? :o
what hud are you using? (sorry if you heard this question too many times)
That CHU CHU CHU CHU got me dead
How does one disable viewmodel flames?
this is secretly cooking with woolen 3
Never been a better time to be a demoknight
Yea this new flame thrower thing is broken. I wasn't aware of the accuracy glitch. This need's to be fixed for the indengrety of pyro as a class.
Woolen i caught that NorthernLionism
eyyeverybody
The entire Pyro class is now the opposite of how risk-reward should work. The only remaining skill that gets properly rewarded now is reflects. Every other Pyro mechanic: the more aim it requires, the less damage it does.
idk which is better WM1 with the flamethrowers or the dragons fury. You can delete people all the same but the DF has more range but the trade off is that you can miss and not kill entire servers because you missed sometimes
elbowgreese DFs DPS is higher for the first two shots and same as flamethrower afterwards, it's a good scout counter but I'll take other primaries over it any day
I remember that the firts day of jungle inferno pyro was ok like a flame hit me an the afterburn didnt killed me. I think this problem of the damage came with the patches
MagikarpIsOp back in the day a couple of weeks ago
I've always used the Shotgun, why is there no point learning to use it anymore? Is it because as I've always thought, it's kinda useless right now and too much of a weak secondary instead of a fucking boomstick?
A Pyro *should* die to two Scouts shooting him for eight seconds.
You see, the W+M1 is VERY strong in this update... The backburner isn't that bad. If you pair it with "jetpack" you have great mobility and great flanking capability. Don't get me start on Phlog... If you use it-you're satan. The Thermal Thruster & Dragon's Fury combo gives you great mobility and (if you're skilled with it) Dragon's Fury gives you an edge in fighting most classes.
And people were complaining about the dragon's fury.
Next up: Minmaxing the backburner to kill 200 heavies per ammo pack
Have any good tip for playing pyro?
And another thing, I miss the old flames with the tracking, I'd just started getting good at leading them to hit them all so I could destroy Pyro's in ft fights
Been playing a lot of heavy. Even with decent tracking, Backburner shreds me
hi I already liked the video and I'm gonna watch it later cause I need to go to the hospital now.
stay safe
that solly at 12:04 got destroyed
So I should use back burner in mvm now
Pyro basically counters sniper with the scorch shot or flare gun.
Oh cool woolly here made an item which wasn't the blap badge. Nice work.
+Nav_Generate I didn't make the badge
I know, but you have a self-made ver and your a contributer to it. How did you get the self-made pyro helm anyways?
i made the sfm art for it
Woolen why don't you just use the CompVM no viewmodel mod? You even made a turtorial on it and i'm still using it :D
9:17 What do you mean by that? What did they fix?
That's not a Gibus, that's a Gentle Munitionne of Leisure.
The Dragon's Fury is the most OP thing in the game as of now.
How?
I'm glad to supply such a wonderful example of bad flamethrower hitreg.
I'm expecting 2 payments of 700 billion pounds
about the "only reason to turn on viewmodels on pyro is for timing powerjack swings" I'm pretty sure you could just enable view models for slot 3 and not slot 1 and 2
cant do that in one word though
Oh my god you made an item before!!!!
just the sfm art for it
still, im really impressed, it takes a lot of people to vote for your item to be in-game
Did you know: If you press backwards with the jetpack, it throws you backwards instead of forwards.
Hud download link pls
i feel that with tf2, they have made all the classes equal. well tried to. as in any class can fight any class, maybe it cos people "main" classes, and complain if another class can always beat them. i think when new players join up they look at the classes as characters and believe their all equal, but originally classes wer supposed to have counters and ur supposed to use strategy in what class you pick based on what ur team and the other team is up to. i also feel if competitive restricted classes to default stock only this would solve a lot of issues with balancing that aspect, and casual is where alternate weapons could be, then casual and competitive could be balanced differently, but at the same time. so they sped up the spy, now spy can pick any class, but if they slowed spy down then spy could only really chase down heavy, solly, and demo, and with pyro u could give stats to the other classes to make them take damage differently like.. fire crits scout but scout can out run pyro, and so the hide ambush tactic would work for pyro . but a heavy should have fire resistance, and solly and demo should be immune to after burn. they have unbalanced the game by making the classes all equal in a way, but the classes really need to be more specific. also ppl need to stop being so "main class" orientated. but tf2 is tf2 , it caters to the newcomers complaints and drives away the old players with every update. this cycle is evident in youtube, and is also why the game has lasted so long, when u first start, its cool, u dont care. u just do whatever., after a few years u can see the flawed crit system and how tf2 is all about randomness, and the random ness is what keeps ppl playing when their new, and what drives you away when u get good. i cant explain this all that well i might have to make a video or draft out something more easier to understand and post that somewhere. random teams, random bullet srpead, random crits, its random fortress 2, and its drifting further away from what made it unique with every update and new weapon they release. old players allways think tf2 is dyeing, but its not. the're just getting sick of it and the new players not knowing the meta. pyro is to powerfull now, and i havent played for a while. i have played on and off since the tf classic halflife mod, ive watched this happen,
Besides of all the bugs, I really like this “W+M1” patch. Before, pyro’s “primary” weapon was just dumb and useless. Because of that “secondary” weapon worked as real primaty for a long time. How ironic.
But the most ironic thing is, because it lasted so long, now people think it’s natural.
Come on, jungle inferno update ranters. It should be like this at the first point :/ stop screaming about “bring back puff and sting shdhtauyfhfjwgsjdooqo”.
Btw, nice video, woolen
DEWILL Flamethrowers actually doing damage isn't the problem; not having to aim is. If you would have to hit with every particle to do full damage (and maybe if the particles were a bit smaller I guess) people wouldn't complain as much as they do now.
Da Stranga That’s because i mentioned “bugs” at first.
They should concentrate on big fixes much more :/
DEWILL Oh shit, sorry, I should read more carefully. Yeah, I agree; it's nice that they made a lot of patches to fix exploits and glitches caused by Jungle Inferno but the way flame particles work now is definitely one of the biggest issues and it hasn't been adressed (yet, I still have some hope).
Well this is the way they've addressed the previous problem with flame particles. But I guess they did fix the damage inconsistency by making it consistently weird. I don't think anyone would've had a problem with making the flame particles almost the same as before but upping the damage to this very amount. In any case, I wouldn't expect them to change it for quite some time now. To them, this is probably an experiment to see how the new property gets used.
But I'm not sure what they expected the new airblast to do with Pyro's comboing secondaries though, the flare gun was already suffering before, but now it's just dead without any reason to use it in close range (And the new DDS means snipers have nothing to fear from it either). The force people take from it (even when looking down around 40-45°) is too much to make any solid prediction. So you're kinda stuck with the stock shotty since the Panic Attack is a lot less accurate than stock for being near the same damage. You just sacrifice that switch speed for more consistency.
DEWILL You hit it spot on
What Pyro needs is damage and skill indexing and combos were nothing more than a flashy exaggerated bandaid fix that did nothing to help the class besides make it look cool
Pyro works in open etf2l 6s... But the higher skill level you go, the more counter able he is
One word about pyro,
Satan.
I would say god is more evil (Noah's arc)
I'm a generic degreaser+flare pyro main and I have to say, I genuinely dislike the amount of damage that flames do. I enjoy setting someone on fire and having to do at least some aiming to hit a flare, but as of the update everyone dies before you get a chance to move your finger to the secondary. I personally find it really boring to play because unless you make quite an effort to fire as few flames as possible there isn't really any challenge, not that there was beforehand.
Sorry. My comments were pretty much the inspiration for this video, I think. I was trying to say that the damage potential wasn't the problem, and that pyro being able to win 1v1s against any class within his range was a good thing, but my wording was really poor and it sounded like I was defending Valve. Don't get me wrong, the particle behavior is broken, but pyro beating an equally skilled scout at point blank certainly is not, and the fact that it's possible to win that encounter now is refreshing, as is the fact that he is actually good at punishing people for bunching up in bad positions if they don't watch their flank.
I'm only happy about the broken primary because I don't like dealing with scouts. I just play shotgun pyro
I personally hate how pyro changed from a class that was intricate, used multiple weapons to get kills (degreaser, shotgun and power jack) where it takes a bit more skill... pyro has changed into a class where people can just roll a whole team my running at them. A lot of times they are using weapons that GIVE CRITS (phlog and back burner)
Sad to see a once fun and a little complex class dumbed down.
Everyone else just uses their primary to kill the enemy team. Why should the pyro be any different?
Hardly, many other classes combo weapons but some were killed off (scouts sandman+throwing wep). But for the most part every class has at least one combo, except medic because... reasons, and maybe heavy. Otherwise every class has a secondary or a combo between two of the three weapons to get a kill. With pyro any skill he had with combos or even airblasting has been removed from the picture, I see so many W+m1 pyros that I've left tf2 until they fix this, which probably won't be for a year or two.
Pyro shouldn't be nerfed to shit, but there are so many bugs around pyro and the lack of EFFORT needed to put into the class to get a spy-fast kill (as in less than a second in most cases 2.5 being the longest as a fully overhealed heavy), then something is wrong.
Good news, everyone!
"Fixed a bug with the Backburner using its owner's angle to determine whether the attack is behind the victim."
I had fucking great tracking before. I learned it and practiced it along with the shotty. This new update absolutely fucked me over, because an enemy pyro can kill me in two seconds.
BackBurner should support flanking. So if they don’t flank they should take more damage. Like a 20% vulnerability on wearer
No.
Kenneth Reyes that's awful. A frontal damage penalty is more sensible.
Valve why do you do this to us.
TIL: woolen made the mishap mercenary
Did that spy at 13:42 try to sap you to death?
8:02 the name says Polish nobility and the pronounciation was not close at all but I appreciate the effort
i'm very bad at localisation
well I don't really expect everyone to speak Polish, as there's no reason to do so to be honest, but still, I appreciate your effort, it sounded really cute
（ ´∀｀
is that the music from american psycho
What about the Dragons Fury
I didn't know you made the mishap mercenary...
i only made the sfm art for the workshop for it
Alright, I can easily say that pyro isn't really better. I can be a heavy, but a pyro would come along and kill me in under 3 seconds. And as a scout a pyro literally killed me under a second.
Wow i'm in one of your videos 0w0!
And it looked just REALLY weird how you got all those kills by just wiggling around. Valve pls fix.
ouo
*notices comment* owo whats this?
I miss the old reverse shooter.. since it got nerfed i dont even play pyro anymore
It sucks that as a spy or anyone with 125 health you get melted in less than a second, so you have no time to react most of the time
Thoughts on the Dragon's Fury? In my opinion it's one of the worst weapons in tf2 history, meant to require skill and aiming but in reality just another and more overpowered w+m1 weapon. Just spamclick m1 3 times and... free kill.
i'd rather people used it to the stock because at least it makes it harder to kill a whole group
Sounds an awful lot like Soldier given your description..
Except it makes Pyro weaker against Soldiers and Demoman that can two shot a Pyro when a Pyro has to three shot them, but I guess it is overpowered.
i was on 24h 2fort and the red had control over the bridge.i went full w+m1 phlog i died but i got half of them:)
just make pyro run slower while firing his gun meaning you do actually need to be good at flanking or getting around corners but running at players wont work anymore and puff and sting would also still be viable.
woolen, also you can leave fire with the backburner and then airblast people into it they take crits