h y p e r t u p l e t s.
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 7. 09. 2024
- đ„Transcription & drumless track â www.shawncrowd...
đ„ Stream the new album 'Perihelion' (out now!): spoti.fi/2sdTSJ5
Listen to Threshold:
â Official music video: âą Sungazer - THRESHOLD (...
â Live-in-studio version: âą Sungazer - Threshold (...
Adam's video about this song: âą The Psychology of Extr...
Microrhythm: âą Do you microrhythm?
"hypertuplets" are... really big tuplets.
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â Merch: teespring.com/...
â Sungazer: spoti.fi/2sdTSJ5
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Many have asked for a way to purchase the transcription. So here it is! Full drum transcription, drumless tracks, and more now available on my website. â www.shawncrowder.com
What metronome are you using in this video?
Tempo Advance & Polynome
Im curious, is this how artists like Squarepusher write incredibly complex drumbeats and glitchy tunes? by dropping the tempo and then cramming more notes into each bar? Im genuinely fascinated by stuff like this! :)
h y p e r t u p l e t s
h y p e r t u p l e t s
h y p e r t u p l e t s
h y p e r t u p l e t s
h y p e r t u p l e t s
t h a l l
Oh good my tuplet dealer has uploaded
When Shawn dies:
Death: Time to go
Shawn: was I a good drummer?
Death: I heard you could do enneadecatuplets
*Enneadecuplets
Seriously though, massive respect for finding the technical term for them.
Shawn: Yes
Death: Can you teach me?
Death: Time to go
Shawn: ...but I'm not feeling it that way
Death: Time to go.
Shawn: Well, you're not in sync with _my_ time, sooooo....
nah it'll be like the devil went down to georgia
Music theory involving rhythm is by far my favorite, which is funny coming from a guitar player. It's just awesome to deep-dive into all the weirdness.
Same. We're in good company: Zappa, Vai, Anastasio, Fripp, Petrucci, et. al.
Insert typical Meshuggah joke here
Assuming Sungazer goes deeper into hypertuplets, I wonder at what point it will become more practical to have the time signature be based on the tuplets, as opposed to having the tuplets nested inside a time signature.
He's already doing it. In his explanations in this video, he notates it using a 19/16 score.
It's easier to read as time sig's in a lot of cases for sure.
Threshold is one of those songs that sound completely new but also like it has always existed; I don't know how to describe it.
So glad for the breakdown of this song! Iâve listened to Threshold countless times over the last few days trying to understand it. Fast and slow at the same time, it broke my brain. My best guess at the time was 5 5 and 7, but now it makes so much more sense! Lol I was so closeâŠ
I went 5-5-6, but I think the on-the-beat tuplet messed me up there so I was always 1 off.
Same, I think he plays some 5s (at the speed of the 19) in the beginning and my brain got stuck on "5+5+something" for a while until someone else in the comments pointed out the actual subdivision. It's very groovy but also very slippery, pretty awesome song.
When I took lessons with Chris Coleman he had and exercise called âTrashâ. Where he would put the DR. Beat on a pattern, and purposely try to get lost and come back and hit the one. What this exercise did was train the brain to feel the whole block of time as one big blob of space that you could do anything in. Instead of the academic approach which was to feel every micro subdivision. He was also a self taught free thinking player
I try to do that, key word is try. Iâm bad about losing the one. Iâm way better than I used to be but still lose it in occasion. On the plus side Iâve gotten good at playing/faking through that and finding the one again. Most of the time no one in the audience notices and people playing with me just look up for a second
If you want to practice the hand speed for the 19 tuplet at 33 bpm, you can play triplets at 209 bpm. They are they same speed (627 notes per minute). It's also almost exactly the same speed as 16th notes at 157 bpm (628 notes per minute).
Breakin it down as 5 5 5 4 is what i was thinkin. I love the vibe of taking a more comprehensive tuplet like 5 or 3 and then choppin a beat off for a angled rhythm. Like making 11 like 3 3 3 2 or i often do 18 like 5 5 5 3, with the quintuplet groove but its like the last accent is also the first downbeat
Tigran Hamasyan creates a similar effect in "Vardavar" where every two bars of 4/4 is split into 5 5 3 5 5 4 5, creating the illusion of a weird pseudo-5/8+15/16 groove with quintuplet swing. So glad I can now put a label on it (angled rhythm)!
@@oscargill423 yess tigran hamasyan is a great example. He really is awesome. I think the technique is very reminiscent of greek or arabic music, where rhythms often blur the line between what is an accent and a down beat.
The Ocean by Led zeppelin i think is also doin something like this were they cutting off the 16th beat of a 4/4 pattern
The "humanity" you mention about the odd time subdivisions brings in the concept of microtiming. Both Adam and you have touched the topic of music cognition, which is an endless journey of discovery to understand why and how humans are making the choices we make in order to make music make sense and be more appealing! Great job on the video
double upload just like that?
love you guys
geometry dash player??? yoooo
So great seeing people pushing boundaries
fun fact, footwork music's 16ths come in at 93.75 milliseconds each, OR LESS - just past the threshold apparently. cool video, feel like I know a little bit more now why 160bpm sounds so good haha
"It's all in 4/4," they said...
The point Adam makes at the end of the video is very true, and I recommend Metal Music Theory's video on Car Bomb and perceptions of time from the point of view of the creator, performers, and audience.
thanks, great tip! feel like it goes a bit over my head but still super interesting :D
I just think it's so cool how Threshold is at the same time, very slow and very fast, just such a cool idea.
The first time I listened to this I thought I was crazy for thinking that my perception of the pulse was changing over time, but it totally makes sense! There actually are a lot of different ways for your brain to lock into it.
6:19 one of my favourite adam quotes
Thank you for not only giving this experimental music, but also the explanation of how you feel the pulse depending on the context
I've always felt that playing tuplets was just a matter of how you're "feeling" the resolution, but playing them as time signatures is where the mastery comes in, you'd have to make them sound as "music". And that was always the challenge for me. Otherwise it's still just 4/4 in the end...
Shawn is the drummer's drummer of drummers who are drummers' drummers.
ive been wondering why this song itches the scratch in my brain like it does thank you for this video!
Adam needs new driving glasses. They give me anxiety
6:21
Here to say the same thing. Hanging on for dear life lol
I think feeling it as "3/4" (6+6+7) makes a lot of sense, as many cultures use these patterns of "short short long" and variations.
It's like the "quarter note" can be different sizes in many cultures, so no reason to believe we can't also feel it this way in the western world.
that reminded me of a video of adam neely explaining 9/8 as 2+2+2+3 or short-short-short-long
At 9:28 you describe a way of feeling the pulse as 5/4 with last 16th note missing, which actually reminds me of one of the last sections in Dream Theater's "Home" at around 12:21 on studio recording. Mike Portnoy basically does the same thing, though it's not subdivided into 19-tuplets, but is like a 19/16 time signature, which is easier to count as a 5/4 with a missing beat. Great stuff!
Yeah, I think that's a really common way to play 19/16 and is a pretty good argument for thinking of this song as also just being in 19/16 too (although thinking about it in tuplets has its own advantages for sure).
Will there be a physical release of the album? I'd buy the record or cd in a heartbeat!
Same here!
Same, would love a CD release so I can leave it in my car
That's a cool looking metronome
Iâm feeling this in 5, 5, 9
Interesting how different band members counting differently, observed this at a jazz night watching the toe tapping of the musicians, all using different subdivisions, but yet it came together cohesively.
As a musician who cooks to make money, I truly appreciate the spider racks you have in your studio. Now I need a couple...
As a lifelong drummer who learned by playing along to rock / classic rock / pop / hip hop this is pretty brain-breaking and awesome! I salute your talent, ambition, and creativity!
I guess my love for adam neely brought me here! Not disappointed!
New tuplet just dropped
G o d your excitement is so contagious I loooove this
Also
Adam looks like such a grandma when he drives the tilted head with his glasses HA
This video is why I subscribed this channel.
I don't often get to take time to put such technicalities of rhythmic inclination under a deep scope, yet I have a taste of rhythmic awareness that's assisted my feel to play with virtually every band that has needed me as a drummer.
This is true rhythmic composition at its finest.
Thanks for the content as well as giving insightful perspective to musicians that also aren't drummers.
This is in sane bro, i love everything inside THRESHOLD, also the name of the song is so coolâŠ! Greatings from Mexico, love your vids man
I love how you present this idea. It's like being in a science fair ( or music fair?) that you and yours alone can manifest it in raw nature. I can see the happiness in you making these hypertuplets into an enjoyable context.
Good job!
"so stay tuned, and talk to you soon"
Yesss! More Shawn Crowder soon! Thank you for sharing all of this with us â€ïž
Zappaâs guitar book is a wealth of musical rhythms. I am going through it and carving out phrases that I feel move me. Being a drummer too, we lay the foundation for the others to lean on. Iâve noticed when I have a comfortable tempo, (36 bpm usually)âŠI freely start subdividing like mad. I think because melodies seep into my consciousâŠ
Bulgarian folk music have people singing in 11with a counter melody in 9. When you start practicing these things it is funny how prevalent they are in your lifeâŠ
I enjoy your talkâŠcheers!
Iâve only recently started listening to you guys and Iâm in love. Amazing stuff.
The best kind of tuplets, youâre a master at this my dude!!!
Criminally underwatched channel
New album is amazing. Goodness đ„đ„đ„
Let's buy a new pair of glasses to Adam
that's so fucking insane.
A song that is written in 4/4, felt in 3/4 and played in 19/16.
I can NOT wait for Shawn's SUPER HYPER MULTI ULTRA META NINTEEN TUPLETS
While the main groove may be 6+6+7 (or 6+6+6+1, depending which part you are listening to), notice that the intro focuses us on 5+5+6+3 when the hats first come in before the breakout.
Drone metal and black metal:
You called?
This feels like a silly question, but what is that metronome used in the video? It looks really useful
I mean, right? I am actually curious about both apps
shawn replied to a different comment with "Tempo Advance and also Polynome for the 17 chill-hop gag. Both are great."
larger tuplet rhythms and weird polyrhythms are decently common in modern marching percussion literature
When you lay down the pulse it feels, every time, like they are dotted quarters, 6/8 or 12/8. Nothing following that changes this for me. so the 19 sneaks by as triplets, kinda sorta
love the resolution analogy, never really thought about it like that
Holy crap, I've been writing music like this for the last year without realizing it has a name xD
7:34
that was a ~crisp~ mini handclap
I'll sure be playing around with these rhythms, Thank to You !
I remember people discussing what the time signature was on tiktok. Guess noone had seen ths video, i hadn't either
Awesome. I've been doing this with 19 for years because it's a lucky number and sounded fun. But I'm just mapping in logic and cannot really play any of the instruments live. I love playing with the count and feel. Though I often use other numbers too and also I am creating them as odd time signatures with varying feels. I'm a self taught songwriter who can count but not read lol
Do you have any music you could link? I love programmed music with odd rhythms, it's a good way to experiment without all that pesky practice and the mechanical precision can actually be kind of a nice quality.
I find 19 has a nice aesthetic to it, both aurally and visually. Would love to hear some of your stuff!
@@TheSquareOnes Totally agree, I love experimenting and it's interesting too when a main lead melody wants to resolve but it has to wait a bit or the opposite...it can produce unique ideas and just feel different! I actually don't have anything out right now in that vein...BUT now that there's a bit of intrigue I will get back to you here with a place to check soon!
@@oscargill423 I was just letting Cyan know that since you both have perked me up a bit, I will figure out where to put a few oddball ideas and experiments and return back here soon!
I'm really embarassed I was oblivious to the fact you have an awesome channel like Adam's. Subscribed!
ok im music lover but muzik theory not so educated...but i understand what you explain feel it and visualised the sound ...subscriber for sure
shawn is literally music vsauce
F R A C T A L - B E A T S
i kinda wanna hear hypertuplets used in an acoustic, stripped-down type of track
Paul Desmond would call this 4 and 4/5ths time haha
Have you spent any time checking out modern dci drumline books and the massive amount of substitution rhythms? Wild stuff. Especially when you are on the move and playing with a full line. I like your channel!
me at the beginning of the video: "Just play in a different time signature?"
I'm glad I told myself to shut the f*** up and watch the video. Thank you for this, Shawn.
10:35 I like the cymbal his as a the censored sound lol
I'm getting into the twilight zone of music theory and it's a very scary place
I don't know if I'm more pumped about the new songs or the theory behind them! In the end, it's nice to fall in love with new music these days. Thankful and excited. Cheers from Brasil.
Very cool song and an interesting framework for notating it. Regarding the perception thing though, I feel like as a result of how close this is to the limit it does make more sense to think of it as 19/16 and that's how I've been approaching it while drumming along around the house (seriously, such a catchy subdivision, great work). The click track is even a textbook example of how you'd probably teach someone to learn 19/16, just take 4/4 and add three extra 16ths at the end. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter what we call something as long as the music is cool, but it is kinda funny that the "why use odd meters when you can just play tuplets in 4/4" crowd has already innovated so hard that they're essentially back to playing in odd time signatures again.
Of course, the logical next step for this kind of thing would be to move between different large tuplets in different measures (or even have measures subdivided on a normal grid, the horror!). That would be an easy way to further "justify" notating each of them as tuplets since otherwise you'd be getting very deep into irrational time signature territory... although that doesn't sound like a bad thing either. Obviously a lot of this territory is still best suited to programming though rather than humans, like I've recently had fun doing dumb things like switching meter and large tuplet subdivision every bar while implying tempo modulations within the tuplet in ways that would be wildly unrealistic to perform live, but it's exciting to see all these present day virtuosos actually pushing closer and closer to the limit every day.
hypertuplets, hyper pop. 2021 damn
Waiting for this one! I wondered if there was something to the tune's 33bpm-ness. What did Adam use as the click out of interest? How would sending another simultaneous click to another player work?
You just add it as another channel in Ableton and then setup the outputs how you want so that they don't overlap in anybody's headphones.
@@tissuepaper9962 Thanks so much!
6:20 why does he wear his glasses like that lmao
I wish I could subscribe twice.
Hear & play that 19th note like itâs a pickup note into the next bar.
I counted this song in 10 but the last beat was half the length of the rest in order to figure out the 19s the first time around.
Great video, GREAT tune!!!!
Dotted notes= Value+1/2 (so for a quarter note- four 16ths, dot adds 2..... 4+2=6). Double dots- Value+1/2+1/4, so 4+2+1=7. The symbol I'm very sad hasn't caught on, cause it would be SOOOO useful in modern music, is George Crumb's dotted note where the dot goes in FRONT of the note value, which meant Value+1/4 (4+1=5). Would be so useful to have a single symbol for five 16th's instead of always having to use a tie!
side topic: both you and Adam talked about how the lowest perceivable rhythm is 33bpm. Is that without doing any mental subdivision? In theory, couldn't you perceive 25bpm by hearing 100 in your head and just playing the 1 in a bar of 4/4, etc. I'm really interested in these tempo perception ideas- when does the perception of a feel change from single-time to half- or double-time, etc. There is a glockenspiel solo by composer James Romig that is written at 9bpm, but you can really think of it as 72 with the rhythms written 3 orders higher, that sort of thing.
Side topic 2: I trust that you know that your click scheme of 4/4+3/16 is the exact verse groove from Zappa's "Keep it Greasey" on Joe's Garage... FZ and Vinnie knew what was up! ....and Mahavishnu's "Celestial Terrestrial Commuters."
You speak so well. Your voice and your inflection work greatly together, very delightful video. Also, great content.
100 ms is the interval between frames of most animated gifs
We need the music video of this to be with FPS synchronized to the beat
4:45 a doted quarter note to is worth a quarter plus half of one. So when we have what I call faut de mieux a doublely doted it is a quarter plus half plus a quarter of one. Add it all we get a note worth seven sixteenth. We theoretically keep going with triplely doted and quadruplely doted notes.
Threshold Bluecoats W
Amazing theoretical concept brilliantly applied to real music! I'm stunned!
This absolutely rules. Love this experiment. Wow. Thanks for this. You rock, dude
When two of my favourite CZcamsrs upload at the same time on the same topic ;)
If a number exists, a there is a tuplet for it
You can definitely tell he put a lot of time into this =D
What app is displaying the beats in the first 20 seconds of the video?
EVERYTHING IS 4/4
Instant subbed
After seeing your analysis of The Alien, I'd love it if you and Adam Neely would either cover a Dream Theater song, or do a further analysis of one.
Well, technically this is playing in 19/16. If we are talking about 19tuplets we won't write those down in groups of 6 & 7. That's why in theory we don't go longer than 9 & 7 because everything else like 19/16 can be written down, created, and explained with all the other "small" subdivisions.
the tuplet understander has logged on
Shawn slowly transforming into Mike Mangini
Just listened to the album... it's friggin buh-dass.
19 Tuples and Counting
Oh heck yeah
This is fucking sick
OMG!
You are the super master of rhythmic
On a related note, what is the largest "tuplet" you can hear/feel as itself, without grouping? I can hear up until 5, maybe sometimes 6 (but usually it is 2+2+2 or 3+3) but never 7 no matter how hard I try.
Analogue to subitizing?