Why Would 25 Medical Schools Reject This Near-4.0 Student? | Application Renovation (S3 E11)
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2021
- Today we're looking at a med school application from a premed who did a great job academically, but wasn't accepted in this application cycle. He has great activities, including thousands of hours of research. Could it have been his personal statement that held him back?
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Along with going over this student's full AMCAS application today, we discuss:
• Why he declined to comment about his racial background on his application.
• Is the term "Overrepresented in Medicine" (ORM) actually a thing?
• Why I recommend not focusing on negative things in your application.
• How he wasted space in several of his activity descriptions.
• What I recommend doing in your activity descriptions instead of listing job duties.
• The problem with saying you're good at communicating in your med school app.
• The single biggest fault I see in his med school application.
• The potential stigma you need to overcome as a student with a near-4.0 and 520+ MCAT.
• Can you be a "resident" in multiple states for med school admissions?
• Why even a mediocre writer can write a great personal statement with the right focus.
• Can you update medical schools with a new personal statement if you're waitlisted?
Watch more episodes of Application Renovation: applicationrenovation.com. - Zábava
Everyone is saying he's acting robotic/lacking social skills, but let's see how you would feel/act after having worked your butt off for 4 years, spend $3,000+ on medical school applications, and dealing with the stress that comes with reapplying. Have some perspective folks
Couldn't agree more with you.
... wouldn't he be upset then?
Also, someone who can remain calm and hold a thoughtful discussion, after getting shafted by the system, would make a great doctor. The stress he's under isn't manifesting itself in wild emotions, but instead he's focused on solving the problems.
In fact I did work my butt off for 6 years, spent similar money on applications, and dealt with the stress of reapplying, and in fact, I was not a robot, played sports, and had a social life. Without watching the video, anyone rejected with those stats has a serious personality red flag.
I disagree because so many times people that do really well with stats don't do well with people/doing the job. He might memorize things really well which makes getting those high stats easy or maybe not. We don't know for sure.
This was brutal. Props to this guy for keeping a straight face.
Oh my gosh I know this kid! He's the nicest guy ever. Hope the best for him
He really is
major props to him for taking that harsh criticism so well!! he seems like a really nice person, hope he will eventually get in!
Lets hope he gets in this year. Lovely, really gifted guy - would love to have him as my doctor.
I wish we can get an update on these wonderful people who are willing to come on the show and face all this criticism. I’d love to know if he got into a med school.
I don’t think he made it clear why he wanted to be a physician. He only made it clear he has the competencies to become one
That's literally what he said throughout the entire video...
He certainly didn't and even I, who is fascinated by but does not work in medicine, could see that.
I hope he understood the advice and will be able to express himself more clearly when he next applies.
I would ask a trusted, very articulate friend to look over the revised statements. An objective opinion and editing could only help. Hope he does well.
@@certifiedbeauty6434 But still listing whatever traits you think are positive about you like this guy did probably isn't a great idea
He merely listed and proclaimed to have certain strengths and positive character traits, that comprise what he calls his "code".
Why not explain how he learned these things? He didn't "show his work" if you will.
Did a grandparent live with his family? How did that experience teach him compassion, patience, respect? Relay the stories.
Did his family own a business ( just an example ) and is that the primary way he learned the value of hard work? Is he flexible and able to handle changing situations because he saw his parents successfully deal with uncertainty and adversity? Did he need to sacrifice some of his free time to help if needed? How did he manage his time and juggle an extra responsibility. How did he not allow the increased stress to derail his studies.
Give the admissions people a look into your mind and heart.
@@JoeG2324 I mean a lot of people have good stats. I don't doubt that he wants to be a physician. But he should formulate it in words somehow to convince them. It sucks but because there are so many applicants and med school is hard, I know cuz I am in one, they need to make sure the students actually got in because they really want it to, not because they have the stats to. Cuz once they find out they don't want to be there, they might drop out and that is a lost spot. Again, I really believe he wants to become a physician. It just sucks that the process is that way.
Props to the guy for keeping it together. Dr. Grey was out roasting here.
He was a bit mean lmao
@@diamondxforever9337 I wouldn't say mean. Just direct.
@@diamondxforever9337 Have you seen his other videos? Sometimes you need that straight to the point critique for true self reflection.
@@diamondxforever9337I always thought he was snobby have you heard him in his in person seminars he’s condescending
If people think this is "mean" or being "roasted" - stay away from the real world.
I honestly feel bad for this student, you can see him getting emotional towards the end. When reading his application, it really makes you question his intentions for pursuing medicine. He worked very hard academically but medicine is more than that. Hopefully he can get off some of his wait lists and learns from this.
Honestly I get it. I think medicine is a profession most would agree is something you do more out of passion than anything else. Definitely sucks for students with great stats but not necessarily the same drive. Unfortunate how majority of other fields come off as the inverse of this where your stats come before everything else. Also hoping for good things from him.
those stats should get him into many schools i feel bad too. perhaps he neglected safety schools- although I doubt there are really “safety’s” for med school.
@@ala7879 I agree. There are some “safeties”, like 9% acceptances, but I’m honestly baffled. I feel like anyone with those stats and his activities (which were not bad) would get into at least 1 medical school. The only think I can think of is that he applies to all ivy’s and the equivalent of 15+ Stanford’s/UCSD’s
@@minecraftitup The real issue is that people may be extremely driven, but not necessarily be able to explain it in a picture perfect way on the application. That's the real issue. There are probably countless of amazing potential doctors who got turned away because they did "sound" good. Motivation is internal, and sometimes unexplainable. Like if someone asks Elon Musk why he wants to go to Mars, he would just say because it sounds like a great next step for humanity.... going from that to a PS is a whole different level. But hey the system is there and will not be changed anytime soon, and there will always be drawbacks.
@@imbatmanlol I've seen people with extremely high stats just apply top programs and don't get in any programs. They say stats get you the interview, but the interview gets you into medical school.
Aw, he seems really sweet and handles criticism so well! I think he could certainly get into a medical school next year if he decides he wants to
any update on him did u get
I think your video is useful to many people to improve their applications. However, I felt that you were unnecessary brutal to this student in the public. Similar to other comments, I also felt bad for the student. I felt that you were tearing him apart when you were going to his application line by line although your intention was to be helpful to him and the viewers. This student deserves more respect and compassion from you for agreeing to come on to this show and being vulnerable. I feel that this student is humble given that he was able to tolerate your criticism the whole time. I wish you showed more respect to this student.
I watch every video of Dr Gray, but there are a few instances where I felt sick to stomach at the way he is talking to these students. In this video, he lost my respect at some places. That's not the way to offer constructive criticism of an application. Also, he goes line by line , word by word, as if these admission officers are going to spend so much of time on these words and sentences. Especially in this cycle, there are so many applications, that are not even read. Even Dr Gray admits that fact in another video that admission committees are not reading all applications. And above all - this is a different point - what is this laser focus on being a good narrator, are we trying to select next Nabokovs? If an admission of 3,96gpa/521mcat is coming down to few sentences or bad narration (look how many didnt even call him) then we have a problem with the system? No other country puts so much focus on good narration techniques, over the actual capabilities of being a good doctor. And those countries turn out fine physicians. Anyway Dr Gray is horrible in this video. Shame on him
@@kumarn5113 you were able to verbalize exactly what I was thinking! This is ridiculous!
@@kumarn5113 I second this. There's a difference between conviction and condemnation and Gray cannonballed into the second category. Lacking respect and abusing your power and platform when someone shows humility in asking advice is shameful.
completely agree. This is not the first time that I feel truly bad for the student. As smart as this doctor is and as helpful as his knowledge is, he delivers it in a poor way. Its almost like he really wants to criticize as much as possible. poor student
@@kumarn5113 ohh wow I am not even gonna watch it then, I can’t stand when people put down other people for no reason ☹️☹️☹️
He seems so nice 🥺 took that criticism like a BOSS. I hope he gets in next cycle
Major props to the student for coming onto application renovation. It’s not easy to hear your application be torn apart, especially after spending so much time on it. I think he has a lot of potential though and I hope he’ll get in soon!
For all those that say he's socially awkward, I'll agree that he doesn't come off as the most extroverted. But it's a stretch to say he's awkward. Try an exercise. replay the video but this time, don't watch the video and just listen to the audio. Don't imagine him as an Asian. Even better, imagine him as a different race. You'll notice no irregularities in his speech pattern or anything unusual. His speech is calm and thoughtful, albeit slow. That doesn't make someone awkward. When you factor in that most people are very nervous from this (as you can see from the other videos). No one comments on how the other introverted people were awkward. Acknowledge your implicit bias.
He does talk kinda slow
he is definitely socially awkward, and his race has nothing to do with it. The reason I know this is because I was socially awkward too and made many of the same mistakes during conversation that he does. Not going to bother to list these now but I am white and have been seen as awkward many times with a very similar personality and background as this guy
@@jamielannister3627 which conversation mistakes did you see? he speaks a bit monotone, but nothing stood out as super socially awkward imo
He absolutely comes off as awkward, monotonous, and robotic. Sorry but it’s clear as day.
I work in PR the young man is social awkward. I’ve worked with people like him to help communicate better. He needs someone to help him work through that.
I think what he meant by lane was how when you mow the lawn, you go back and forth in strain lines, creating “lanes” of mowed grass
Facts
I think the word he was looking for was 'row' or 'strip'??
Hi Stephen, thank you for bringing up your application here. This review is helpful for all of us. I'm sure you will get into med schools in the next cycle. However, right now, I wish you all the best of luck on what schools that you are still on the waiting list!
any update on him did u get??
You know it’s a confusing sentence whenever Dr. Gray consults his wife for her input.
On a serious note, he is very successful academically and I wish him the best going forward. If he can tell his story a bit better he is going to go incredibly far.
I think the criticism here was mostly founded on valid points which I appreciate. However, I also feel like you saw the student as more of a clickbait statistic and this showed in your review. He was extremely brave to come on this show and display his application to his dream job - one that he has spent four years of hard work on - and you were unnecessarily brutal to the point where it came off like you valued the views/power over actually helping the student. I personally look up to the student for his demeaner throughout the video as I know I could not have done the same.
I think his video brought a good perspective. He was very clear that the PS was a huge weak point. Which I agree. That in itself may help many other students avoid the issue of downplaying the importance of a clear, articulate personal statement.
His ps was a mess. And I feel like he was looking at it from the point of someone looking at the applications. Cause they don’t know the applicants, people make assumptions and you can’t control that. I wouldn’t wanna be lied to if I had to reapply….
That personal statement was brutal. I think he fixes that and hes good
As the Chair of a Basic Sci dept, faculty, and part of admissions committee, I’ve seen my fair share of applications and statements. Many candidates don’t have the guidance and feedback prior to submission. Thanks for providing these sessions snd sharing. Hope many premeds learn from this. Critical thinking, humanism, community service, a gap experience year, research, clinical experience are favorable for our school which provide richness & diversity in the student body. Rejected the first time, try try again, show the resilience, especially if that is their aspiration. Someone can have high score, but can be either inexperienced or truly have poor communication skills. Good luck!
I remember when I was applying to college I wanted to have a cohesive theme for my applications but I wasn’t able to “do” it. Because I remember people were saying that’s it’s good to look like a pointy student(someone who’s really good or really focused on one thing)
It’s good to hear that you shouldn’t force yourself into a narrative
So what’d you end up doin?
I truly with him the best. He handled this experience in such a mature manner. I have no doubt that he will become a great physician some day.
Yikes ! I learned so so much from this video. This was so informative and shows just how much the applications of itself matters !
I feel so bad for this kid. He should have someone looked at his personal statement. He could have taken his statement to the writing center at his school they could have helped him. At least he got this constructive criticism.
Video idea:
Read over someone's application and school list, and predict whether they were accepted to at least one school.
I agree, seems he bases his evaluation based on the end sorry and not other way around
Some comments in this video is just straight up mean, not constructive criticism. Kudos to the kid for being so courteous.
Ethnic identification can in most cases be revealed by the applicant's legal name, anyways. That can be traced up to the applicant's parental information under 'Parents and Guardians'.
The person also stated 'Chinese language' (often of usage in childhood home) under language information.
This is probably one of the most graphic examples of what not to do on your AMCAS. I learned so much from this video alone than any other videos/Reddit posts I've ever come across. Thank you to the student for sharing, and Dr. Gray, for that quality critique. Best of luck in his endeavors.
While a lot of people are commenting that Dr. Gray was too “mean”, I think he is doing what other people aren’t willing to do and what is necessary. As a premed student getting ready to apply to Med schools, I feel very wary of asking people who are close to me, such as org advisors or some mentors, to review my PS. This is because I often feel they can’t approach your application in the same blunt and arbitrary manner that say, someone like Dr. Gray can (who reviews hundreds of apps from many strangers). The truth is, Adcoms will also review your app through this more detached lens. The feedback he provides may not be the easiest pill to swallow for many, but I think it is the type of feedback that allows people to see their initial mistakes and to grow from them. I appreciate these videos a ton, Dr. Gray.
Respect for this dude. Hope he gets in next cycle
any update on him??
One thing I am perpetually noticing and confused about in these critiques is Dr. Gray say "Tell your story, tell your story, don't try to sell yourself. Just genuinely say who you are" but when I notice students just talk about their life its normally met with another critique of "I still have no idea why you want to do medicine" even right after just reading the first two paragraphs.
What is the solution to this? Isn't it normal to expect that someone's story may not have anything to do with wanting to do medicine until the entire Personal Statement is read?
The answer to the prompt may not be obvious within the first few lines of a PS, will admissions have the patience to at least wait and see if I don't immediately start talking about why I want to be a doctor?
I noticed this too just now watching a few other of his videos. Gray is just wildly inconsistent, but idk why no one else has picked up on this.
I think, truth be told, hes just playing the role of an uncharitable gatekeeper, which, to be fair, can be alot of adcoms who are conservative in gatekeeping medicine. But grays also trying to sell you his consultation: hes critically harsh on both ends to represent possible concerns from 2 very different kinds of adcom reviewers, but embodied in one person, its just inconsistent
@@danielzheng2242 Exactly, and another thing I noticed is that he says "Doctors don't need you to tell them what medicine is" but he also says that you should try to demonstrate an understanding of medicine.
The only way to do the latter is to show what you've learned from your clinical experiences, right?
@@TheAsianVids I think all that we are saying is totally valid, but to be truthfully honest and fair to Dr. Gray's criticism, alot of the videos you and I are watching just have premeds who plainly cannot write (maybe because of lack of focus, or lack of clinical experience that makes the writing effortless).
So to answer your real first question: you should have clarity in your PS. It should be pretty clear how your personal statement is progressing. Novels and creative writing can "write themselves" into the stories they want to tell, PS must be much clearer. The problem here like I said is premeds can't write: every sentence and paragraph need to have a purpose and move the ideas forward.
All the other criticism Gray gives are a bit too sweeping "dont write hobby essays" "dont do this that." I think, no, the biggest problem is these kids cant write, but it seems like he just wanted to say those lines of wisdom (mind you he is selling advice).
yeah absolutely agree with you. The whole admissions process itself is very subjective. The only problem with him is he is Asian. But nothing he can change about it.
@@PhuongDuong-tt5gf um...i dont think you quite understood our point. No the problem isnt "hes just asian" his application is pretty bad aside from stats, it does read as uninspiring tbch. The problem is Grays feedback is wildly inconsistent
Dr Gray: "I'm not smart, use small words"
Also Dr. Gray: "I'm a doctor, I know words"
He meant, "I'm a doctor, I know medical terms. And even I don't know what "eclipsed" means."
@@pramodhsrihari493 Honestly those words weren't that hard. I think he was just trying to make a point to not use complicated words to sound sophisticated, when that's not who you actually are and not how a person in real life would talk
@@pramodhsrihari493 dude those words arent at all complicated. this guy doesn't know what he's talking about, using those words wont hurt ur chances.
@@justindeekollu5812 "Eclipsed" . Trying way too hard with that one.
@@pramodhsrihari493 the student, smart as he is, did indeed use the word “eclipsed” incorrectly. Even in the most generous metaphorical sense, that word doesn’t really make sense. Dr Grey probably knows the word, just not what the student meant.
Can we get an update? I’d love to know if you got into a good school. He seems like a very nice young man. I don’t know why the host keeps saying he’s awkward. Life at home is different and difficult for a lot of Asian kids. I think he is just reserved and just so very kind and humble young man. Not awkward at all. Good luck to you
did u get any update on him
This was a very strong app. The personal statement was just really bad. As someone looking to apply to med schools this cycle (with similar stats to him) this scares me because we have very similar experiences (I think he has a stronger app for sure). I hope the best for him.
most schools wont even bother reading your statement if you dont have the stats.
This video was super informative!
I have no doubt he will be a great doctor. He took criticism really well and was very polite & humble the entire time. and I don’t think he’s socially awkward. I hope he gets in this cycle!
Also can we talk about how cute he is 😍
agreed
When people are focusing on all the reasons why he got pinned in his application, could we think about why someone with
@@Peter-uo8zr because they showed their value to become a great doctor...people don’t get into medical school for anything
@@Peter-uo8zr No one with subpar stats is stealing his spot. Admissions committees only accept people with subpar stats that they know will complete medical school successfully. He got rejected because his application and personality are trash.
Would you feel comfortable with a physician who lacks bedside manner and makes you feel uncomfortable? He is a robot, nothing more.
@@Peter-uo8zr You can learn medicine but cannot learn how to have a warm heart and a voluntary mind. Although you should have at least a 3.5. It's because gpa and mcat shows work ethic and how to deal with stress
As someone who really struggled to get into med school, this is the type of advice that you really seek out. It's hard to swallow, but if he really wants to become a doctor, then this is what you want to hear. You'll be emotional for maybe a day or two, then you start making changes to your application, and next thing you know, you'll get in.
any update on him?do u know his name or whether he got in or not?
A lot of people don’t understand or sympathize with Asian students and the pressures they are under by parents who have sacrificed everything to come to the United States and succeed. It is real, and the trauma immigrant families go through is real as well. Just because people might not wear their hearts on their sleeve to people who are often not sympathetic doesn’t mean he is a robot. We often lack the cultural capital to know how to express emotions in a way that western people understand. This is something that could do with some empathy and understanding, not harsh judgment and microaggressions. Dr gray, some sensitivity is in order. As an older non trad about to start school in the fall who is also Asian American, this video angered me. Your tone and lack of empathy showed your bias, something I’ve seen from many non Asian people. Please take the time to educate yourself. The way you speak to white students is different. It will be good for your business. Also, inept isn’t a big word. Lol.
Agreed with everything, there’s very different cultures at play and if he doesn’t have experience he’s not as qualified to make an assumption unless the student is speaking to similar admission officers. Also you’re right inept is not a big word!! It’s much lower on the scale.
The word was "inapt." That you both thought it was inpet proved his point that the applicant shouldn't have used it.
"Presuppositions" is not a big word though, I'll give you that.
Fellow Asian here, after reading the examples in Dr. Gray’s book, I tried my best to write “my heart out” in my personal statement and I haven’t submitted it yet because it makes me wholly uncomfortable to write in this manner and it’s so cheesy to me but I have to constantly remind myself that “this is what med schools want so they don’t see me as a robot” 😭
I agree with everything you wrote in your comment.
Argh so true he was so unnecessarily rude to this hard working humble kid! Disgraceful
Inapt is also very very basic like what the hell??? Socially inapt might be the term for this Dr, just completely lacking in empathy 🤮 I actually have to stop watching the video it’s straight out bullying of someone who has completely busted his a** 😢
Wow his stats are great. I hope he gets in eventually.
This was eye opening.
sure does. Racism sucks and affirmative action sucks
@@JoeG2324 how is this racism. look at his ps
@@JoeG2324 cope
It’s about going out there FIRST and making a difference and then having a genuine conversation. It’s not about reading a syllabus and treating it like an exam.
Kudos to him for his grades and being able to be vulnerable but I feel like he relied too much on his stats and being a good student and failed to show that he was a person. Like it kinda seemed a little robotic. Good news though its easier to change a personal statement and activities description. Good luck !!
3.96 GPA 5.23 MCAT 8 interviews and only 1 acceptance so I can relate to this lmao. The med school application cycle is rough so props to him for making it through 👍
you only need 1!
Yeah I have no chance lmao. I had a 3.79 gpa and now it’s dropped to a 3.56, I do have time to bring it up again though so I’m going to try my best.
@@Scriabinfan593 you have a chance. Please don’t give up. My friend got into an MD medical school with a 3.6 GPA.
Canada am I right?
@@Scriabinfan593the only thing that matters is that you tell your story. That’s the center point every criticism has circled back to it seems. They don’t want doctors, they want humans who love other humans.
Loved the student’s smile at the end!
damn my heart hurts for you - taking it like a boss though. i'd wish you luck, but you don't need it. you've got this next cycle.
As far as I'm concerned-the guy had a decent app. Whew I am so glad to be beyond this. Trust me-once you get in...the game isn't over but you can take a slight breather...but the grind shifts from AMCAS to ERAS.
For the benefit of the applicant it would be awesome to see a review of one of his secondaries as well! Lots of people put so much time and effort into their primary apps but forget that is just a ‘foot in the door’ towards secondaries and hopefully an interview. A great secondary, that aligns with a school’s mission statement, and gives us an insight into the applicant, is how admissions determine who gets those interview slots
Dr. Gray is mentioning this guy in every email I get from him lmao. It’s a good way to sell the business
It seems like a lot of people take it as a job application because that’s what it looks like and that’s what we’re used to doing! For jobs, research programs, internships, whatever. It’s interesting that you have to completely flip the script for med school admissions.
yeah this is so true, I thought that it was supposed to be written like a job application before I watched these videos!
Don't be discouraged. Just take his advice, write a better personal statement . Try again next cycle and hopefully you will get accepted. I know you will be a good doctor.
This one was sad af poor guy, hope he gets in next cycle
Listen- i get his personal statement was a bit wonky. That makes sense. but this guy also is a massive genius. WHY do you have to be perfect in everything just to go to med school?
Because med schools expect too much.
Competition
The personal statement is extremely important. That’s where you either capture or sink the interest of your reader. There are a lot of geniuses applying to med school and he probably was outcompeted by other geniuses
It's not that everything needs to be perfect. It's more that admissions and the interviewer needs to know that you aren't a robot.
@@kellyhamilton8263 1) Why? wouldnt a robot be the best doctor? and 2) doesn't countless volunteering hours show that?
If I listened to this guy, I wouldn't be
in med school right now
28:40 And this is why Dr. Chan at the University of Utah put in place that the MD ad comm has GPA and MCAT blinded to them - they want people with amazing stats but poor activities (and vice versa) to not carry any sort of bias.
I love this
This actually gave me hope when I was applying. I may not have a 3.9(3.14) and a 521 (513) but i have multiple experiences in my life that formed my aspirations to be a physician and to be of a service to humanity. The PS truly was his downfall and I appreciate him for having the courage to have his application ripped apart by Dr. Grey because this teaches a lot of people about the potential faults in their personal statement. I currently have 3 acceptances (2 DO and 1 MD) and I wanna thank all the brave students for helping me with my applications.
Can I contact you
update? where are you now?
Hey I was wondering if I could contact you as well?
Dr. Dude, you could have given him the same constructive criticism without the bullying.
How in the world can you write about your reflections growth and who you are without coming off as "trying to sell yourself" it's such a fine line
i also want to add that there are thousands of medical students and residents and doctors who are just as socially awkward as this guy. that's not keeping him from medical school at all. stop focusing on that.
THIS! 100%%% all he really needs is just hundreds more clinical(not volunteer) hours like he was already doing (emt)
Thank you! Autistic Spectrum disorder...high percentage of doctors and scientists. People néed to look at achievement.
Nice to see a fellow UCSD student!
Oh my goodness this student is so sweet 🥲 well done Dr Gray for shepherding him to his truth and his story!
I hope he gets in 🥺
I would've left this conversation the minute he started mentioning UNEARTHED word. Kodus to him taking all this harsh criticism🤯lol
I really don’t understand people saying he was being too harsh. Is the competitive nature of applying to medical schools and becoming a physician in general not harsh in itself? Rejection is harsh, not knowing why is even harsher.
Hi Dr. Gray! I have a quite a bit of time before I need to start writing a rough draft of my personal statement but I was wondering how it would be looked at if I talked about domestic/emotional abuse? One of the major reasons why I am passionate about becoming a physician is because I have seen first hand how women in my community are abused and denied access to healthcare as a form of punishment/trying to keep "family matters" within the family.I really want to touch on the fact that so many Americans are denied access to healthcare because of financial problems but also due to abuse.
@@KENNETHTXMMA oooh yea that's a good point, I don't want sympathy points but it is one of the reasons as to why i am pursuing medicine. thank you!
Awesome stats but looking at his school list, he is competing with a bucket load of applicants in the same stat pool. Clearly, his stats helped him get his foot in the door but blind an admission reviewer to his stats(which is what most schools do) and he comes off more as a computer science PhD applicant with very very little to do with medicine. He tried hard to relate his computer science background to medicine but didn't translate well. Either way all the best to him!
Lots of valid feedbacks, but equally lots of overly-critical Labeling and stereotyping this Asian kid. According to this channel, "underrepresented students" is a "real thing" while "Overly presented applicants" is a "made-up"thing.? why is this statement true? Someone explain it to me. Let's "call a spade , spade" "The Emperor's New Clothes". Am I out of touch, or this youtube channel is. Most of schools in his list are target schools well within his Stats. He has the GPA, MCAT, R.A(for leadership), volunteering..and research etc. Should his last name be "Lopez, Rodriquez, Gonzalez, or Garcia ), instead of be(Cheng, Chan, Liu, Lee , or Wang), the outcome would have been very different.
My feedback to the applicant: You have listed "Chinese" as a second language on your AAMC. So it is a DEAD Given Away that you have Chinese ethnicity. When you Declined to state your ethnicity . You are essentially saying that Med Adm Office will negatively stereotype you. Adm Office do not like to be called out on that fact.
You should play that "fact" as an asset, not a liability , such as immigrant parent background, multili-lingual, multiple-cultural upbringing allowed to you relate to others better. I do congratulate you for having such an amazing Stats.
"And I don't know you, so I'm not telling you that you're not good at communicating." --highlights the absurdity of this process. AMCAS provides so much room for people to read into things that aren't really there.
I do agree that a lot of the application read a little awkward/hard sell, though. Have multiple people you trust and who are experienced in this kind of thing read your app.
There are a limited number of spots, so it's a zero sum game. If there's underrepresented, then that means there's overrepresented.
theres still no point in him not putting his race down tho. He said he spoke chinese in his childhood so anyone with common sense is gonna assume he's chinese anyways 💀
I wonder how he has improved his application ever since this episode came out
Quick question: if he was waitlisted by a few schools, wouldn’t that mean he’s received interview invites? Does that mean his primary/secondary apps were good enough for them?
I was wondering the same. If he applied to only top 30 or 40 medical schools and then got like 5 interview invites, I would be tempted to think that despite some of the flaws in his application, it was still successful.
I’ve only watched like 30 seconds of the video so far so idk if they address this, but you can be waitlisted both before getting an interview and after the interview. They can waitlist the decision to offer an interview and/or waitlist to offer acceptance post interview. One friend of mine applied like September, got waitlisted to interview at one school, then got the interview at that school, then they waitlisted him again after the interview. Stressful stuff.
A little confused with "experience description" and "most meaningful experience remarks" categories under each activity. I understand that we should not list off what we did in experiences that are quite obvious, and that instead we should focus on the impact. With that said isn't the "experience description" asking for a description of what you did and the "most meaningful experience remarks" is the impact the experience had on you? If not, what is the purpose of have two spaces to explain the same thing?
Same question as me!
For me, I use the first space to give somewhat of a description but more focused on the impact that I had in terms of numbers/growth or any unique/cool things I did in that position, and then I used the second section to tell a story.
@@nikkistarke9856 have you applied yet or are you applying this June?
That is quite the personal statement….Its important to have people review your PS. I’m guessing he didn’t and relied on his stats.
Honestly it seems like he might be a better fit in computer science. He has a knack for it and spends his own time and money on building computers since he was young. Maybe his parents are making him go to medical school?
I hope my Adcoms aren't as stone cold as Dr Gary. LOL
A current M2 here. Ad coms aren't there to fool around. They will have very high standards set for the incoming class. Stats aren't everything when it comes to med school applications.
You know what, funny story haha. I am from the Philippines and I applied for 2 medical schools here with different interview dynamics. The first one which was CIM, I had AdCom interviewers who were very strict and cutthroat that they haven't had smiled in the duration of my interview. The interview lasted for 1 hour and 20 minutes and it was very thorough, I had sweats even tho the room is airconditioned. I thought I won't bag a spot there but by God's grace, I got in. The other one was UC-Med and it was the opposite, the doctor who interviewed me was so sweet and kind, she even apologized to me because she was late in the interview schedule for 10 minutes. I felt so light with her and we had an engaging conversation, it didn't even feel like I am in an interview. I felt so positive that I got in because of the situation but yes, you guessed it, I didn't haha.
This was very helpful and I love these videos, but can you please start telling us where the student gets interviews(if they dont mind) because I think that would give us more perspective.
Thank you!😁
That would be a privacy issue. And trust me, it is random. You have to get lucky and hope the reader of your file objectively likes you more than the other files they're handed. I got interviews at schools I had no right to be interviewing (stats wise) and heard nothing but silence from schools I thought I was a perfect fit for. Randomness/luck plays *too* big a role in this process because of the insane number of applicants each year. 😒
@@alphaspartan thats a good point congrats on your interviews i hope you got accepted and wish you the best of luck
@@AAH-ox9ch thanks I wish you the same!
I wonder what is the final outcome of this applicant. I honestly do not understand why he’s not been successful in his application. What else can you do to get in? People worked half as hard, had a lot worse grades could get in. Making up some personal stories is really more important than the hard stats?
In the long run, those who keep composed the longest will receive the final triumph in life. Maintain the balance and Keep in fighting!
This kid is a hardworking student and focused! I would love him to be my doctor!!!
Could be he also applied to wrong schools.
I had a 3.5 gpa 3.1 science gpa (dumb math minor) and a 505 MCAT, I got 4 interviews and 2 acceptances, as an older student. I have an interesting story, but I also applied to lowest tier schools
I’m in a similar boat as you, same mcat score. His problem is he based all his school off the stat ranges. He probably would’ve gotten interviews at lower tier schools he just didn’t realize his personal statement is booty.
Where u applied?
His activities wasn’t that bad (maybe except the sales one).
Not all Asian applicants have a near-4.0 GPA and 520+MCAT and many who don't have such high stats are still accepted.
Of course, no one is saying that it's just stats and race. But that there are different rules for different rates. It would be *very* unlikely for him to get rejected if he were URM. You need a huge red flag with those stats and activities if you're URM. For Asians, you need to "prove yourself" even with good stats.
True but a lot of Asian applicants do have such high stats so we're essentially competing against each other lol
@@nonenone4815 With that personal statement, and those terrible interview skills, yes he would be rejected as a URM. The AAMC statistics show that not all URMs with good stats get in either.
@@nonenone4815 yeah that’s not true
@@nonenone4815 bullshit. prove what? the f'n guy already proved everything. What you just said was disgusting and so obviously racist. "For Asians, you need prove yourself"? What the F does that mean? What does him being asian have to do with anything? This is disgusting. We're potentially losing out on a great doctor because he is asian and "needs to prove himself". But meanwhile, "other" students get in with half his credentials.
Who secretly wanted to know what class it was he got the A- in lol
Orgo I, I saw it. Man.
@@BubbleBratable hahaha Orgo is a tough one.
Im all for constructive criticism but his tone and wording is unnecessarily harsh on this kid, IMO. The student is so humble but Dr Gray is being a jerk in the way he gives him feedback
Inapt is just not apt I think? Is that really a hard word? And now you're talking about presupposition? That's also not that uncommon of a word. Easy to deduce from supposition. I think this speaks more to your personal vocabulary than this guy - he's clearly not going through a thesaurus and trying to find words he doesn't understand. He's not fleshing it out for no reason, those are just words he uses. Strange criticism, I think. And also you're assuming that all adcoms don't know these specific words which is a stretch.
I don’t think it’s an assumption. Even if they don’t... it takes a second to google it lol. I think he’s just saying it shouldn’t feel force & it might be better to use words that allow sentences to flow.
Did you pause the video to read his personal statement? It is extremely clear that he is using a thesaurus or some other manner to use "5 dollar words" in order to make himself seem smart. However, the problem is that he isn't using these words naturally or correctly, which is reflected in the fact that it is difficult to fully understand precisely what he is talking about in his personal statement. My advice to the student would be to put away the thesaurus and speak in language that he is actually comfortable using.
Inept was the word, but he does not use several vocabulary words appropriately. Inappropriate word choice gives an impression of inauthenticity.
Some of it is probability. If he has a 5% chance of acceptance at any single medical school and he applied to 25 medical schools, he still has about a 25% chance of not getting into any of them.
Though Dr. Gray's comments does improve his probability of getting in for the next cycle.
Main point is be yourself in the applications/interviews and don't try to sell yourself.
I honestly don't know what I can take away from this. It sounds like the reviewer is just criticizing the applicant while he clearly does thing no less than correctly because the reviewer knows he didn't get in anywhere. If the reviewer doesn't know the result, I assume his comments will be drastically different
Exactly. Hindsight bias.
I think his personal statement was the thing that bought him down, everything dr Ryan said before that I would probably take it with a grain of salt. I wouldn't label him as being robotic or unfit for medicine with unacceptable social skills. He seems chill with the feedback given and it wouldn't do him justice to claim he won't be compassionate or caring for his patients just from one session. As for not disclosing ethnicity or such, I think this shouldn't be emphasised too much. Why give out the option if you are going to judge them based on their race anyway. Like what dr Ryan said if you don't disclose, it makes you look shady but if you disclosed people will be biased. I think the adcom should just review admissions based on their achievements, experiences, stats and personal statement. That's the point of people not wanting to disclose their ethnicity because they don't want their ethnic playing any part in their admissions.
I can see how not disclosing your ethnicity can be a red flag. Why would you not be proud and confident of who you are. He has already has the stats, there’s no reason for him to not feel strong about going into this process not feeling like he’s going to kill every step of it
No doubt he'll get in somewhere next time!
It’s so sad Asians just don’t want to be judged by skin color, and somehow that’s asking too much.
@cheads9376 Yes she's serious. You ever hear of Affirmative Action?
It’s a racist country they need to know your race when filling out any form from birth to death
@cheads9376 "to hire qualified people of color by hiring systems that systematically wanted to discriminate" then please enlighten us on how the average mcat for blacks is like 505, yet Asians with 520 scores get rejected????? doesn't seem like the most "qualified" are getting accepted
@cheads9376 I’m so sorry you were brain washed into believing this. Good luck in life.
@cheads9376 you should read something written by Thomas Sowell, any of them. Please.
Life is more than just "medicine or nothing". Some are not suited for medicine. Some are not ready. Some are made for something else, equally as great and important for society and as self-fulfilling and rewarding. Gold at 49 minutes in. I hope he'd take a step back and truly reflect on what his calling is and his true purpose in life - not impositions from others or ideals and beliefs and pressures to be something or someone he is not.
Your experiences don’t always speak for themselves...
Experiences *never* speak for themselves, ever. Two people can do the exact same thing and get completely different things out of it.
great channel
Why am I still watching those application videos even I already decided to give up in med school after two failed cycles. This is so stressful.
Did he not ask anyone to review/edit his application?
You need to be less harsh in my opinion 🤷🏻♀️
He literally skips race but adds Chinese as one of his two primary languages used in the home growing up 🙈😅😅😅…
My daughter has similar stats and she only got 1 interview in the last cycle.. she has very few clinical hours as it is hard to get any due to Covid.. she is trying hard to cover up the gaps with EMT, scribing and clinical volunteering .. she is frustrated being not able to get interview even with high stats.. looks like clinical experience and volunteering is more important then stats... wish you the best this cycle
What I did to get more hours was sign up to volunteer at a hospital's emergency department and then basically turned it into a full-time job. I was only signed up to be there for four hours, but I stayed all day (the actual clinicians have no idea what your hours are supposed to be). I also signed up to volunteer in other departments, so if there were too many other volunteers who showed up in one department, I could go to another. I ended up racking up over 300 hours in one month. Also, there's a world of difference between being at a hospital for 4 hours a week and being there 12 hours each day. Volunteering entire shifts allows you to be part of the team and be treated as such.
Don't be fooled, Miller School of Medicine (University of Miami) is a private school and they are willing to accept out of state for those who want to apply!
Knowing a current M1 and two M3’s at UM’s Miller, I can definitely say a lot of students are not from Florida.
Dr Gray is absolutely correct: I have a doubt he really wants to be a doctor. I can see him maybe as research/doctor.
But the whole thing was shamefully brutal.
So, should the experience section include more stories? SHOW dont TELL.
"After assessing her insurance" LMFAOOOOOOOOO
I am glad you brought up that ORM and URM topic.
He was wrong about it lol
@@cocococo9258 can you elaborate
That personal statement reads like a computer science research paper about to be published. Just the writing style.