Ergonomic Desk Setups: Is it important?
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- Thank you to Pat from Corporis for being in my video!
Check out his channel! / @corporis
Today, we're talking about Ergonomics. Is it actually important in a desk setup? Should you change your setup at work and at home to help you work comfortably and reduce stress and injury? We cover chairs, desks, keyboards, mice, and monitor height and get some science lessons from Pat to learn more!
Sources/More Reading:
🪑Chair
research.tees.ac.uk/ws/files/...
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...
journals.lww.com/spinejournal...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
⌨️Keyboard:
pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c86b/...
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/...
🖱Mouse:
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
www.researchgate.net/profile/...
ijaers.com/uploads/issue_file...
www.scitepress.org/Papers/201...
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/...
🖥Desk / Monitor:
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
content.iospress.com/download...
www.sciencedaily.com/releases...
#Ergonomics
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Mayuko Inoue is a content creator and Software Engineer. After working in Silicon Valley tech companies like Intuit, Patreon, and Netflix for six years as an iOS Engineer, she became a full-time creator in 2020. Her work aims to help people find their way through the tech industry by sharing her own experiences navigating this world through technology, career advice, and lifestyle videos. She is passionate about discussions around mental health, cultural identity, and creating technology with empathy and compassion.
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Yooooo! So glad we finally got to make a video together!
Dude YES, thank you for providing the ~*SCIENCE*~, Pat!!!
I know the world is gonna end #asta
Thank you for sharing this info. I’ll make sure I follow everything you said.
Muhammad Hamza awesome dude, just remember, every body is different. And while I reported what the evidence said, some people might like different stuff
Thank you both for such an informative video! I am using the K860 keyboard right now. Do you think mouse wrist pads would help? I'm using my mouse with one.
this was a nice video about "back" end development
Kevin Jin nice
nice pun
Noicee
I see what you did there! 😎
@@Abinash91 you mean i C
Awesome video! The way I get around the laptop issue (since I don't own an external monitor) is using a laptop stand along with an external keyboard + mouse. This lets me view the screen at an optimal angle with good neck posture, while also maintaining the 90/90 rule with my elbows on the desk.
As someone who suffered severe sciatic pain and inevitably back surgery who works in IT - PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS VIDEO. I revamped my whole desk setup and my company was gracious enough to get us standing desks. This is SO.IMPORTANT!!! More people need to be talking about this, not only in the IT/Software field but desk jobs in general.
This is such great informative content! I am a bit passionate about ergonomics myself and I love how concise this is. Great work, Mayuko!!
Thank you so much for all the tips Mayuko. I had very serious neck and lower-back pain after working remotely for almost a year. I adjusted my monitor and chair immediately after watching this video,
You should bring up some merch for this "IT depends" - love it!
Thanks! This is very helpful considering that I am working from home now during these uncertain times we live in!
I don't typically comment on videos, but I wanted to share that I really enjoyed this collab you did with Pat! Keep doing what you're doing, Mayuko~
So love your style and energy both of you.
LOVED this. Thank you so much!!! You go girl!
*watching from my bed, hunched on my laptop that is on a lap desk*
I love this, Mayuko! Onto online shopping now to update my setup.
Thanks for introducing Pat from Corporis!
☺☺
I hope that this video will be archived for ever because this is the most professional one for the topic of office ergonomics.
As a college student who is already starting to get carpel tunnel symptoms, I'm definitely pulling the trigger on a new keyboard and mouse. For any students out there, Logitech has a 25% discount through unidays!
How's your health now
Thanks for this vid Mayuko! Super helpful.
thanks a lot for this video, trying to go ergo now , keep the good content up!!!
@mayuko, awesome video!, it comes at a great time as I'm looking and researching to understand what's wrong with my setup, which I thought was fairly ergonomically correct already X-D, but it is obvious that I still need to make some adjustments to address a discomfort that I'm recently starting to experience in my neck . I very much appreciate that you focused solely on the ergonomics and science behind it, (versus a "disguised" marketing videos promoting some peripherals brands, which there are a ton out there), keep up the great work on your channel and stay safe!.
PD: Loved your reaction on 5:39, I can definitely relate! hahaha.
In case it helps, here's an index of the topics reviewed:
1:56 - 1.Chairs
4:23 - 2.Keyboards
6:28 - 3.Mouse
8:02 - 4.Monitor Height
9:57 - 5.Desk
Love you Mayuko! Thanks for another helpful video.
For my own setup:
1) I was taught that a J-shape is actually how our spines are supposed to be curved, the S-shape being a corruption that developed with a more sedentary lifestyle. I look for chairs that have a soft-edged back to rest my neck on so I can slouch down such that I do a bridge with my back actively engaging those muscles, which maintains proper curvature. This lean-back bridge position comes in handy when working on a laptop, as it reduces the difference in height between the eyes and arms.
2) It's more comfortable to rest the arms (near or at the elbows) on the desk/armrests and leave the wrists floating. Having my hands float over the keyboard introduces more movement with larger arm and shoulder muscles that are better suited for repetitive movements, much like when pounding away on old style manual keyboards whose typists generally weren't known for suffering wrist pains over the course of their career.
3) As with #2, larger arm and shoulder movements are the key. So no wrist rest for my mouse. I usually go for larger gaming mice that allow more surface area and useful buttons for my hand, and actually never liked the "ergonomic" ones that are so slanted my hand would slide off if I'm not constantly gripping it.
4) A slight head-down position helps straighten the spine into the natural J-shape, hence why the 0°~-20° angle for monitors. Eye strain can be reduced with larger screens at a longer depth, though it's kinda difficult to rent out a movie theater for yourself or even put a 60" monitor at a full body length away from you.
5) I keep my standing desk at standing height, and modified my regular computer chair into a drafting stool (i.e. replaced the cylinder and added a footring). That way it's me moving around, and I'm not waiting for my desk to rise or sink.
One of the best video, All the tips are helpful Thank You So Much 😊❤️
Love it, thanks!
Extremely helpful; brought it all together!
Great info - and thanks to Pat! :-)
Videos keep getting better, Mayuko! Keep em up!
Thank youu 😭😭😭
thank you for making this video. really helpful.
This is an amazing video overall and the collab was fantastically incorporated into the video!
My only concern is the statement that it's only worthwhile if a person does all of the things in the list. While this is true at some level, people will still get huge benefits from fixing one or two things at first, then they'll probably do more in future.
Ergonomic equipment is extremely expensive, so an 'all or nothing' approach is likely to make many people go for the 'nothing' option.
This was a much needed, informative and fact-full video. Thank you!! =D I was already wondering about buying a split keyboard, this really helped me decide. ;-)
I just had to redo my setup from having wrist pain. This is my advice to someone who's on the computer 12+ hours a day.
If you're doing more coding, keyboard > mouse. If you're doing more gaming, mouse > keyboard. I'm sure most desks are fine, but if you have a bad desk/chair combo then that's the worst harm in the whole setup. I realize it's expensive to make the switch all at once.
Make sure the arms on your chair go under the table so you don't have to lean forward while on the computer.
My setup:
A cheap ergo chair that works fine for me.
A 40-ish degree angle ergo mouse and a separate gaming mouse. Both mice are wireless so they don't take much space and my wrist pain is gone. My gaming mouse stays at 3000 dpi and I still keep my ergo mouse at 1600, but that's a higher preference than most.
A 48-inch/1.2meter wide desk with two 24in monitors, and a small 10in monitor.
Also, it's not a bad idea to look into blue light reducing glasses for both your vision and headaches.
Wow, It was a great video, continue with more content like this!
Great video! Needed this
Wow, the extra reading list is super exhaustive 🔥
I've been having some neck and back pain the past few weeks. Was just thinking about getting a new chair or something and this pops up.
Also I see you using chillhop daydreams Mayuko ;)
Great video ! Thank you
Awesome much needed video rn.
Thanks for this video Mayuko!
Looking forward to making my desk more ergonomic
Have subscribed recently, damn. I like your content. Keep it up!
Awesome info.....thank you
I am Japanese. I have started to work at home from April. Your video give me 2 good things. Update my desk setup and Studying English. It is so easy for me to listen your pronunciation. Thank you for your video. I like your channel.
I'm someone who will probably spend the entire life in some level of pain & discomfort because of herniated discs, so take it for me - start paying attention to exercise, stretching, and good posture *now*, before it starts hurting! Start every morning with some stretching exercises, do something to strengthen your core, run and/or swim, get a decent chair and make sure you sit properly in it! You'll thank me when you're old(er)
This video is helpful! All your videos are :) ... I also like to add that it is a good habit to move your arm when typing and/or using the mouse instead of just the wrist.
Very cool video.
Here are a few comments based on MY experience.
1) Chair, YES very important.
There is no ONE size fits all. Especially for us shorter people.
If the pan is too deep (front to back), the front of the pan will press against the back of your leg, and your lower leg will not feel good.
There are a few chairs where the pan can be adjusted forward/backwards, to provide limited adjustment of the pan.
Without changing the chair to one that fits. The only options that I know of are:
a) sit forward in the chair, and lose the support of the backrest.
b) put a cushion against the backrest to take up the space.
About the 90-90-90. If you have a short ham string, sitting with your thigh at 90 degrees to your back is uncomfortable, because you are stressing the ham string. And that will pull on the bottom of your hip bone, and cause it to tilt back, which will then pull your lower back out of alignment.
IF your chair has a tilt adjustable pan, you can tilt the pan forward to increase the angle of your thigh to back, and relieve the tension on the ham string.
If you cannot tilt the pan, tilting the backrest back, so that you are leaning back, rather than upright, will do the same. But that changes the geometry of the the upper body.
If you are at the computer a LOT. The arm rest should be properly adjusted to support your arm, and not leave your elbow floating in the air, unsupported.
2) keyboard, YES, love the split keyboard.
The other factor is the keys.
The feel and sometimes even the spacing is different. If you have trouble typing, try a different keyboard.
I HATE the "chicklet" keys. They are mostly on thin laptops, but there are also full keyboards with those keys.
The problem is, the chicklet keys do not have enough travel, to absorb the impact from my fingers.
If you have a keyboard with chicklet keys, and if the tips of your fingers are sore from typing, try switching to a keyboard where the keys have more travel and more bounce.
3) Mouse. They used to call it "Mac elbow," when the elbow of your mouse arm hurts from RSI.
If your are right handed, you will use the keypad on your computer AND the mouse with your right hand. If you are an accountant, you live on that keypad, talk about over-use of the right hand/arm.
I switched the mouse or trackball to my left hand to offload some of the work from my right hand. Mouse with the left, keypad with the right.
And as was said in the video, it does take a while to teach your non-dominant hand to use the mouse, but hang in there, you will "get it."
It is funny to watch the IT guy struggling to use a left handed mouse/trackball.
The smart ones will immediately figure it out and change it back to a right hand configuration.
The not so smart one will keep struggling, until someone tells them to reconfigure the mouse for the right hand. duh
4) Monitor Height.
OK, this is where I have an issue with the ergo experts.
This is one of those "it depends."
For ME, I will unconsciously position my eyes level with the MIDDLE of the screen. That is MY "it depends."
When I had my monitor at the ergo height, eye level with the top of the monitor, I would unconsciously lower my head so my eye was level with the middle of the screen. That resulted in me sitting hunched over, and that resulted in a sore upper back and neck from being hunched over.
The simple solution/trick was to RAISE the monitor, so that the middle of the monitor was at a height where I would not hunch over.
I had to put up with the ergo experts at various companies telling me that my setup was WRONG, and that I should lower my monitor.
And that would cause my back and neck pain to return. No thank you.
These experts were using a template and trying to make everyone fit the template, rather than evaluating the individual and dealing with situations where the template did not work.
5) Desk
If you look at a secretarial desk, you will see the return where the typewriter was put. Many of you may be too young to remember/know what a typewriter is. The height of the return was lower than the height of the desk. That was an ergronomic design.
The problem is, most people use a standard height desk, not one that is at a proper height for a keyboard.
Keyboard trays, are an attempt to lower the keyboard to a better level. But they don't work on all desks.
Computer desks with a cutout for a lowed keyboard are another attempt to deal with the problem.
In my case, I use an old office work table. With no drawers to deal with, I could put the mini-towers under the work table and out of the way, not ON the work table and taking up valuable real estate. I cut about 3 or 4 inches off each leg, to lower the height of the table to the correct height, for me. Perfect.
If you cannot lower the desk height, you have to raise the height of your chair, to raise YOU to the correct height relative to the desk.
IF you are short (like me), your feet are now floating in the air, not resting on the floor. Your unsupported feel will pull down on your legs, putting pressure on the bottom front of your thigh; not good for your legs. If your feet start to feel numb, that is why. You have to put something under your feet, to support it, to take the pressure off the bottom front of your thigh.
I used to use reams of paper under my feet.
That got the facilities guys to finally lower my work surface to a level that worked FOR ME.
One size does not fit all.
Great 👍 tips. I really appreciate it
This is really important advice!
This is the most helpful vid for this I've seen
i remember when i was younger, i had one of those microsoft keyboards that were ergonomic and had the scroll wheel in the middle. i loved that thing! and i typed very fast on it. might get one again!
Very useful
I just recently bought a standing desk! I used to have a desk that was too high, so I couldn't find a comfortable sitting position (I also need to hand write things too), so to be able to adjust my desk has been a godsend. Also, I can study standing up now (it helps me not fall asleep)!
How is it?
I would just add that standing desks when paired with balance boards are actually ergonomically beneficial. Thumbs up for the video.
Thank you for this まゆこ❤️
Great video bravo 👏🏻
Great video!
Very good advice and suggestion mam
Wonderful content
Most important : Take regulary a break, walk, stretch and look far.
This video was awesome, so entertaining and informative. I loved it!! I work as an iOS developer as well andI am going to try and utilize all of this information! I just have one follow up question: what is the best way to use a keyboard? Should your wrist rest on anything (like a memory foam pillow)? Should they dangle? If your elbows are at a 90 degree angle does that mean they are resting on the desk?
No mention of "kneeling chairs"! I have a kneeling chair and i find it quite comfortable to work on and of course the only way to work long hours is to take short breaks in between!
I have an apple magic keyboard without numpad and magic trackpad together in a holder (so my trackpad is to the right of the keyboard). After seeing this video i realised i need a keyboard riser because apple keyboards/external trackpads lie flat on the surface which is super bad for typing.
also i didn't choose a standing desk as they are expensive and tie you to a specific place in your home. We have a home with great views in two different balconies and with the table (it has castor wheels) i have I can move to any spot in the home i want. change of scenery while working is the best. Haven't found a standing desk that is motorised that comes with wheels!
amazing video
I have two things to say. This video was really cool to watch, Aaannnndddd I’m destroying my back everyday.
11:42 saw that monitor seems a bit tilted, didn't know up until this second my monitor can do the same -- i'm dying. This, help so much.
Nice video, definitely gained a sub.
Thank youuuu 🔥
Thanks so much for this video! I think I'ma going to go with a Logi ergo keyboard and Logi Lift mouse (I love how silent they are). And will invest into an ergonomic chair. The money spent will be an investment for my health 💚
Great!
Great video, I was indecisive about buying a standing desk for this WFH period but they’re now sold out 😭
It took me about two weeks to adjust to the original Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. Now I can't go back to a conventional keyboard. I have a couple of MS ergo keyboards still in their boxes in case an in-use one dies suddenly.
Monitors: I've known lots of people who had their monitors off to the side requiring them to keep their heads turned while typing. They all complained of neck pain and headaches until their monitors were positioned in front of their keyboards. I've heard the same complaints from people who use two monitors with the sides of the monitors touching at a point centered in front of their keyboards.
l need to checkout his channel. He seemed very informative. IM going to give these tips a try
keep going ... very useful video
I do have an ergonomic chair but don’t have an adjustable desk. These desks are expensive and not widely available. However, everything you said is correct and I will take steps to ensure..
I got your keyboard after watching your video long time ago. I love ergonomics mouse and keyboard.
I find that sitting with my hips slightly elevated above my knees helps too. Knees just slightly more than 90 degrees.
Nice video... She’s a very good speaker.
Changing my chair now
Thank you for this video mayukoooooo
This was great, it's 7 in the morning, getting ready to log in and organising my space, thanks to this video I changed my monotor height,,,instantly better...cool channel thx
Great video, with practical advice. Using a standing desk position since 2013 has changed me a lot. Having a real standing desk (with the desktop board actually moving up and down like in your video) makes my typing health even better. I'm still sticking to the >20-year design of Happy Hacking Keyboard variants (I'm still not used to type on split keyboards). The 90-90-90 rule really works.
Great, I was starting to demoralize while using the ms sculpt, but now I get it will take some time. That alone was an awesome insight, thanks!
Check out the perixx ergonomic mechanical, it is basically the MS Sculpt, but mechanical. And is not that expensive! They have two stores, a global (or us) and a eu one.
I went with the Kinesis freestyle2 (waiting) and want to try having the mouse/touchpad in the middle!
Adjustable desk, Microsoft sculpt keyboard, logitech vertical mouse and a Herman Miller aeron chair are all you need
Nice video topic, I never know benefits of this type of keyboards
so Cool Video
Hi Im new here at the channel and love the content. im a freshman studying cs in japan and thinking of moving to US when i graduate. Do you have any tips i think there are many people having this problem so in the future it would be really helpful if you make video about it. And again keep up the great work
You are doing god’s work, saving one posture at a time.
this a engineer channel, god is for simps.
Nice topic. WFH led to working on dining table & my back was not happy. I invested in a good chair & it made a huge difference.
I have been using mouse with both my left & right hand. It takes a while getting use to it but it is worth it.
Great Video! Im study in posture correctly now hahah
I prefer videos like these.. thanks 🙏🏽
Thanks for the video. In regards to KBs, is it better to get a fixed-angle split KB or a 2-piece (or 3)? It seems to me that the angle (tenting) is also important, but you didn't mention that at the end...?
Any thoughts on that and other aspects of KBs (wave, matrix, etc.) would be appreciated as I'm trying to figure out what's best!
Vi el video latincoder con Mayuko y te ame inmediatly !
Thank Mayuko i learn a lot
Please upload the video on back end development
Really really great job! I'm gonna buy a keyboard now
Nice 👍
One thing is that to satisfy the 90-90-90 setup, you need a specific desk height, which is usually not possible except height adjustable desk. And, when you look at the price, you may as well just buy a standing desk.
Hi, The video was very helpful. I have a question if we use ergonomic keyboard at 45 degree how do we maintain the 90-90-90 rule. Thanks in advance.
Great Vid Mayuko could you please recommend some glasses my eyes hurt when I do more than 5 consecutive hours of coding
Great tips on here.
One of the things I've been wondering about as most of the studies seem to be older studies when CRTs were common (up to 20in screens?), these days most monitors are at least 23" and goes up to 30"+. How does these new larger sizes come into play when it comes to ergonomics? Is the top at eye level still the recommended height?
That's exactly what I was wondering too when I wrote my sections! Research that makes recommendations for large swathes of people is hard to come by in the ergonomics world. More often, if you read ergo journals, they'll study specific manufacturing plants or small office environments to study their specific needs. Then if they get enough individual studies with enough consistency between them, different authors might compile that information into something called a literature review. This is speculation, but I'm guessing that consumer technology progresses so quickly that we can't compare a study from 2015 to a study from 2020 as closely as we'd like to. I feel like back then, ultrawide monitors weren't nearly as common a they are today, and even then, are enough people using them that would warrant a study in some office building somewhere?
@@Corporis Thanks for the update on this. Definitely makes sense that there isn't as much on something more "recent" as tech moves so much faster than everything else. Most companies appear to keep monitors until they die, which means it's likely on the smaller end with less resolution for studies in most office environments (unless we look into either designer or programmer roles). Any recommended reading on something like dual or multiple monitor setups on ergonomics? Or screen size differences? Even if they aren't peer reviewed yet?
It takes only about two weeks to get used to any new gear. 4 mounths maybe to FULLY adapt, but after 2 weeks your brain will no longer "say" it's unusual.
In terms of best bang for the buck solutions
- Buy a good refurbished desk chair for 250 odd quid
- buy a cheap anker vertical mouse
- stick some reams of paper underneath where you’re working for the correct height
- make sure you’re using an external keyboard of some description
im watching this while my feet on the desk
lmaoo my fellow shitty posture brother
Tell me about it. Lot's of hours at the computer working. I use a mouse intensively for 3D modeling and I prefer it to my vertical mouse these days: It's called a "vertical mousepad" by Orb Control, MouseRamp. I got an early sample. It put my hand into "handshake mode" and it's been comfortable for me without feeling as awkward as my vertical mouse. I just use a regular mouse on it. I hope this helps somebody with their computer ergonomics!
Any recommendations for chairs? Also curious as to which chair you use.