What Kind of Karate is in Cobra Kai? | ART OF ONE DOJO
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2018
- Cobra Kai is a sequel to the beloved Karate Kid trilogy. Cobra Kai picks up the energy, nostalgia, and the heart of the original film while bringing us a dynamic new set of characters and story too. However, very little information is giving to us in the films/show as to what actual styles of martial arts is in play. In this video we will explore the hints and put together what we think are the styles of Karate in Cobra Kai.
🔴𝗔𝗖𝗖𝗘𝗦𝗦 𝗘𝗫𝗖𝗟𝗨𝗦𝗜𝗩𝗘 𝗠𝗘𝗠𝗕𝗘𝗥 𝗖𝗢𝗡𝗧𝗘𝗡𝗧! 🔴
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*PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE COMMENTING THAT THE CRANE KICK IS REAL OR THAT I LEFT OUT FUMIO DEMURA*
I get comments on this DAILY, and I addressed this in fuller detail in the second video. czcams.com/video/Ct9DqIrpAqk/video.html
There are many SIMILAR moves to the crane kick in other arts, but nothing that is exactly the same as it is presented in the film. If you disagree, please post a video demonstration of another art doing the crane kick EXACTLY as we see it in the film, and from a source or an art that existed before 1984.
I know personally alls the actors of karatekid, And about the crane kick, it Was nomore then an invention of Vidal . And from the cobra kai karate style it's simply Tang Soo Do from My friend And Sensei Pat Johnson.
I don't know if we can consider the crane kick an actual kick, as it is a real kick (nidan geri) but from a crane stance. I mean we don't consider a mae geri a different kick if we do it from fudo dachi instead of zenkotzu dachi. And the crane stance appears in the kata Gankaku a lot. So I guess it technically "exists", but as two separate parts.
@@Catsincages Hi! Thank you for your response, and of course I absolutely do invite opinions and discussion on the topic.The reason I pinned this note is because a lot of people point out techniques that are SIMILAR to the crane kick (as displayed specifically in the film) and this seemed like an easy "first stop" sort of response before further discussion.
I would also like to point out that there is a big distinction in something being BASED on something real, and being real itself. Gun Kata from the movie Equilibrium was based on Wing Chun Sticky Hands, which is a real thing, yet that doesn't mean Gun Kata itself is real. (There is a "Gun Fu" sort of art, but it's strictly for hollywood).
I said the Crane kick as displayed to us in the film (an indefensible kick starting from a standing crane stance on one leg, and arms up in the art with the notion that if it's done properly it's unbeatable). That technique is not used in a real system.
Mae Tobi Geri is simply a jumping front kick, and while the crane kick may be BASED on it, they are not the same (which I showed in great detail in the second video). The Mae Tobi Geri DOES exist in the Karate Kid film, and it is in fact the very first attack Johnny does to Daniel, as seen here: czcams.com/video/CiFxNjMf5Bc/video.html
There is a pretty distinct difference in what Johnny does there and what Daniel does later. The crane kick is similar to many other moves and techniques, but no style (at least not prior to this film) teaches an actual attack in this exact method. Why? Well, mainly because it's ridiculous. It telegraphs exactly what you're about to do and would likely never work in a tournament, even if done correctly.
Here is Darryl Vidal talking about creating it. He says he made it up, though it is partially based on a jumping front kick that everyone has, but the "Crane Technique" as it's actually referred to in the film, does not exist in this way. czcams.com/video/UWXFBz05pyA/video.html
This is the Mae Tobi Geri, and as you can see in regards to stance, trajectory, and mechanics, is different than what Daniel does at the end of the film. czcams.com/video/BqWgxuteGe0/video.html
I absolutely do invite discussion and I do admit when I'm wrong, but out of over 186,000 people who have watched this, and the many who have commented as you have, have NOT ONCE backed up their claim or shown me an example. I have stated my claim, and backed it up (especially in the second video) as well as posted my samples.
If the Crane Technique actually exists in Goju Ryu, as depicted in the film, then please link to me a video of a Goju Ryu practitioner (or any serious Karate practitioner) demonstrating the kick as part of their curriculum. Not just a Mae Tobi Geri, but the full "Crane Technique", with the beginning waiting stance, arms up, and then the kick. If you can't find it in video form, the please send me a link to a reputable curriculum guide that describes it in that way.
I ask this of many who comment the same debate and to this point, no one has posted anything. I look forward to your posts.
@@ArtofOneDojo 🤨 黒は白、白は黒です。 あなたの耳はあなた自身のエコーを聞くことができるだけです。😴
I'm sorry but I don't believe in absolutes. People see black and white, but I find all the really interesting stuff in the grey.
William zabka the actor for Johnny actually became interested in tang Soo do and has a black belt in it. Guess who's the real karate kid.
Watch him in the shoot fighter movies shows off alot more of his karate by then he was alot more trained when that movie came out
Ajax Blair Before he took an interest in Martial Arts he was a wrestler in high school. A pretty good one too I heard.
The very fact that William Zabka was a _white belt_ when Karate Kid first released never ceases to amaze me lol
@@13Kr4zYAzN13 He wasn't really a martial artist. He didn't get into Tang Soo Do until years later.
Perhaps johnny Lawrence was actually the real karate kid up until the evening of Halloween within the original karate kid film
Then, bobby took over - both him and his cobra 🐍 kai karate group posse especially dutch became homicidal maniacs.
That last dangerous powerful potentially fatal flying leaping side kick would have likely taken danny's life or did some pretty serious damage which would have caused the cobra 🐍 kai karate group to be arrested by law enforcement agency officers 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 👮 , charged, placed before the courts and likely punished by a lengthy prison sentence
I have reached a new level of nerd.
Don’t hurt me like this-
Because same-
+1
Wanting to learn karate isn’t being a nerd reading Harry Potter is shush
@@knightfurioso4803 is ju jitsu for nerds
“Cool it with the nerd shit”😡😂
Zabka confirmed recently at C2E2 that Cobra Kai was trained in Tang Soo Do.
That seems wrong. Tang Soo Do is and offshoot and very close to Tae Kwon Do, and both are Korean arts with much different techniques the what is in Karate Kid. I am a high ranking black belt in several styles including two Korean arts and two Japanese arts. They are distinctly different. The movie does look a bit like a combination of the two. Some Korean blocks but definitely absolutely hard style kicking, Kate (poomse in korean), and punching are all mostly Japanese
Dave Goodwin this video explains it very well both with within the movie universe and with the fight coordinator Pat Johnson.
czcams.com/video/nWASxKUS3yM/video.html at the 33 minute mark you can hear Zabka talk about what he was trained with and what the current crew is doing.
@@davegoodwin1848 choi hong hI created TKD after WWII by combining taekkyon and karate
@@dektran4843 yup
Zabka is real black belt in karate
Spoiler alert 🚨 but in season 3 when Kreese has a Vietnam flashback his captain says he was trained in Tang Soo Do and that he will teach kreese the same. So that pretty much confirms that because kreese founded cobra Kai and that is probably the only variant he knows.
@n729jsjkz he already talked about that several videos ago lmao
Even more recently Terry Silver was giving direction in Korean, and next season comes a S. Korean actress.
I'll have the McCobra combo with special kai sauce
Holden McGroin hold the taters and give me a mr mcYagi milk shake
Hahaha! Chop stick doesn't exist in this dojo ,doesn't it ? Soya sauce doesn't exist in this dojo,doesn't it ? Fortune cookie doesn't exist in this dojo, doesn't it?
Ur. Bloodyedve d
Would you also like a side no mercy?
Hunger does not exist in this dojo!
Fun fact: the actor who played Miguel confirmed in an interview that he and his fellow cobra kai costars were trained by Simon Rhee, who is a Taekwondo and Hapkido master and actor in martial arts movies like "Best of the Best"
Too bad Ed Parker couldn’t have also taught them (he died in the late 90’s/early00’s). My brother got a lesson from him when he visited the dojo where my brother learned martial arts.
I heard that! They were also trained by other martial artists. TKD and TSD are more similar than people think. Korean martial arts were all one at one point until they were split up into TKD, TSD, hapkido, etc (there are many). The styles were all then developed in their own way and became the differences they have. Hapkido is the basis for TKD and TSD self defense moves!
That's why most of the kicks is taekwando
It’s not karate
It’s Cobra Kai
You’re a genius
*its not lame ass karate
Its Cobra Kai!
The way of the fist
William Zabka states in an interview that his style is Tang Soo Do.
I think you're spot on especially about Cobra Kai. A lot of Korean war veterans learned Korean Martial Arts and came back home and taught under the umbrella of "Karate" because it's a more mainstream word. In the 70's and 80's no one would know what Tang Soo Do was so it was easier to just explain it off as Karate.
Like Chuck Norris's biggest secret is his style is actually Tang Soo Do, not Karate. He learned it in the Air Force while stationed in Korea
I hold a second degree black belt in Taekwondo... from "Family Karate." The instructors felt that Karate was more recognizable, and once they began teaching me how to properly teach (hint: much more Miyagi, much less Kreese) I learned just how much of running a successful martial arts dojo involves... marketing, advertising, etc. Or as one of my instructors put it, "I opened my school five years ago. I'm just now starting to make money."
Renaissance Nerd You are aware that Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo are both derivative of Shotokan Karate, don't you?
So? Thats like saying a Cheeseburger is derivative of a Ham Sandwich. They may have the same origin but are different arts.
Yup he did learn TKD ...Chuck Norris should mention that
Also not to mention that Tang Soo Do was founded in 1932 about 10 to 15 years before Taekwondo was officially founded, thus it was founded during the Japanese occupation of Korea, so it was often publicly taught in Korea as "Korean Karate".
The style is American Tang Soo Do aka American Karate. Pat Johnson and Chuck Norris both earned black belts from the Moo Duk Kwon in Korea in the art of Tang Soo Do during their time stationed there in the Airforce. They added American boxing and judo throws and called it American Tang Soo Do/Karate. Chuck ended up modifying the art more adding BJJ and amending the forms and creating the Chuck Norris System. Pat Johnson stuck with American Tang Soo Do and is a 9th degree Black Belt Grand Master. This is what he taught the Cobra Kai! There are several instructors in Southern California from Pat & Chucks lineages who still teach this style and were trained under them at Sherman Oaks Karate back in the 70’s and 80’s. Thought I’d add a little history for you 👊🏻 OSU
That is awesome history! Thank you fro sharing that!
So basically karate kid is about karate vs tang soo do war.
My understanding was that Chuck Norris came back from Korea as a red belt, but wore a black belt because he was owning everyone in the American tournaments.. My instructor trained under CS Kim who was one of the instructors of Chuck Norris in Korea.
You're missing some details there and got a few things wrong. Norris was originally a judoka, then began cross training in tang soo do-moo duk kwan while serving in the U.S. air force in Korea in the late 1950s to early 1960s. Pat Johnson never served in the air force, he was in the U.S. army and didn't start training until 1963 after Norris had already left the service and opened his first school. After his time in the army Johnson returned to New York and opened his own school. By that time Norris had already established several schools in the Los Angeles area with Bob Wall and had began cross training in shotokan (under Tsutomu Oshima and Hidetaka Nishiyama) and shito-ryu (Fumio Demura) and eventually earned his black belt in judo under Gene LeBell. Norris had already began developing what would be known as American tang soo do when Johnson had moved to California in 1967/68 to teach for him. That's not to say that Johnson wasn't a vital cog in the Norris system, he was. Norris was the creator and face of the system, Johnson was the chief of instruction and Wall the businessman behind the organization.
TSDtim Norris earned his first degree black belt in tang soo do-moo duk kwan in 1961 and returned to the U.S. later that year (also with a brown belt in judo) to finish his military service in 1962. And no he didn't own anyone in tournaments at least for the first two years, something he admits to in his books and in magazine articles. It wasn't until 1965 when he began training under Tsutomu Oshima, Hidetaka Nishiyama, Fumio Demura and Gene LeBell that he started winning in 1966. In 1967 and 68 he went undefeated in tournament competition, losing his first match since 1966 in 1969 to the late Louis Delgado.
I practice Goju-Ryu, and i noticed the kata Miyagi taught Daniel. When i was a kid, this movie inspired me to practice karate, and i never woulda thought the style i’m practicing in is the one Miyagi’s character is using. Love it!
That Tricky Trickster i used to practice goju-ryu, too.
I trained in Kyokushin and Wado-ryu, both Japanese styles, though polar opposites in approach and application.
Kyokushin being tough, intesnse, hard hitting, initiating contact first, just like Kobra Kai. Whereas Wado-ryu being more reserved, defensive and yielding before applying contact, just as Miyagi-do karate was.
So I always imagined that I trained in both ways, Kobra Kai and Miyagi-do when I was younger.
I lean to Cobra Kai karate being Kyokushin Karate. Mas Oyama the founder of Kyokushin was from Korea.
I don't think it's Kyokushin, and if you read the comments many people who practice Kyokushin definitely say it is not. I did a follow up to this in the second video.
Oyama was from Korea, but Kyokushin is very much a Japanese influenced art having very strong roots in Shotokan and Goju Ryu.
noway
Oyama got his high Dans in both Goju and Shotokan prior to founding Kyokushin (which resembles *none* of the karate practiced here. It's very distinctive from almost every other style, being maybe closer to an elegant form of kickboxing). So while he was technically from Korea, all of his martial training was Japanese (I think he even studied judo at one point).
@Partha MakOthna Oyama was a 4th Dan in Shotokan before he created Kyokushin.
@Partha MakOthna and every one of you gets hes ass kicked by mma fighters
That was a stunt double on the beach stump? My world has just been shattered
Uh....I mean, no no......definitely not a stunt double....TOTALLY Pat Morita.....:D
Yeah, he's just really dead these days.
It was me...
Holy smoke, Darryl Vidal ! Those jump up roundhouse kick things you did against Johnny Lawrence in the semi-final are literally awesome !
@@darrylvidal1 seriously, i'd Hollywood cinemographic karate fight you anytime just to watch you in action.....or just watch the karate kid again
Strike first, strike hard, no mercy, win at all cost is what is taught to Cobra Kai students. I didn't realize where that came from until I joined the military. In the movies John Kreese and Terry Silver were both in the army special forces which is how they met. They were taught to be that way. The same thing was drilled into my head when I was in the military and was taught "gutter fighting " techniques. It is taught because of it brutal effenceny and simplicity. The point is to strike first and end the fight quickly. William Fairbairn the founder called his style gutter fighting because it was a dirty way to fight. He was a gentleman but knew that you couldn't be in a street fight. He taught the allies in WWII his system. The military still teaches his system today because of the short learning curve. Today it is known officially as Defendu. I still practice it but realize it is best not to fight because it's not a game. I didn't notice any gutter fighting techniques in Cobra Kai but I did notice the kill or be killed mentally.
I trained Jeet Kune Do under a person who trained some of the military empty hand combat along with Filipino martial arts for weapons training....I was also taught in a serious situation strike 1st and dont stop until the attacker is no longer coming at you....your comment makes sense to me and now I know where my teacher got it....from the Military guys he was working with....cool!
@Michael Edwards pretty shitty comment to make to any person in any military branch including our NG....got no respect for people like you man
In the USMC you learn MCMAP, not "defendu"... Maybe you should mention the branch in which you learned it, otherwise you can't be mad when people doubt you.
@@brocksmith8690 not sure what it's called as I am not former Military just trained with some....but I do know where the Marines got the nickname leather necks....ya it was cause they are badass but the name actually came from the hand to hand combat they got into in the Philippines....our Marines were getting there throats cut by the Kali warriors and had to start wearing a leather patch on their throat....as well as the Kali warriors of the Philippines wore tight wrapped leather that the 38 cal had problems penetrating....they had to upgrade to a bigger caliber....now Kali and the FMA are taught to our Military guys thanks God....no disrespect to Marines only have respect for people who serve...but ya that is Kali and FMA for ya...the real deal
McMap... a dirty version of Krav Maga.
...And you were absolutely accurate about Tang Soo Do, cheers!
It’s tang soo do , there’s the short answer
This episode was freaking fantastic! As a Taekwondo instructor, I always felt like Kobra Kai was TKD because of how widespread TKD was becoming in the US in the late 70s/early 80s...especially in California. But glad to see that it seems fairly obvious based on who did the choreography that is was TSD. Awesome!
In real life, William Zabka is currently a green belt in Tang Soo Do and continued training after the OG film. So I concur with the analysis as well.
And at Comic Con this year Billy Zabka said it was Tang Soo Do. Great job!
I missed that! Do you have a link by chance? I'd love to see that. Vindication! LOL
@@ArtofOneDojo
czcams.com/video/nWASxKUS3yM/video.html
It's around the 32-minute mark. And yeah it was nice to get to finally know for sure. I've always wondered what it was based on and watched your video first--actually your video was the first thing I thought of when he said it haha. I enjoy the channel, keep it up!
THANK YOU lol. I missed this and this is perfect. I now have the perfect link to post to the flood of comments I get weekly still challenging me on this!
I am also considering doing a 3rd video, but this time analyzing the side characters (Darryl Vidal, Mike Barnes, and the people in the tournaments). Is that something you'd be interested in seeing?
What his name like i dont get it? Is it william or billy?
During the rehearsal movie, Pat Johnson plays Kreese. He is actually wearing a uniform with Tang Soo Do written on it.
GOOD POINT! I have watched that footage, it's pretty fascinating to watch a "home movie" version of the film.
Yeah : there's 2 youtube videos claiming that danny was a punk
The real passive aggressive bully within the original karate kid movies
CZcams videos are as follows
1. The youtube video titled, daniel is the real bully in the karate kid
2. The youtube video, the untold story of the karate kid
There's also some online articles such as
1. The online article by ruthless reviews titled, the misunderstood johnny Lawrence
2. In the defence of johnny Lawrence
Which movie is that ?
Miyagi style, is definitely a very soft Hollywood version of Goju ryu. It's not so much the poor version of Seiunchin, but it's the sequence of paint the fence and wax on/wax off.
Goju ryu is known for circular soft blocks and hard linear strikes. The hard and soft style. Wax on and wax off represent this really well and are features of one of Goju's core kata Tensho.
Tensho is a very simple but beautiful kata, and employs these soft but but very effective techniques.
czcams.com/video/WxVOR4-ubRI/video.html
Goju-Ryu variation with Soft-Hard style
Exactly. The blocks are quite distinctive.
@@matthewkevinobispo6582 What do you mean? Goju Ryu mean Hard-Soft Style in english ...
Cobra kai season 2 showed the real master Miyagi pic in miyagi do dojo....
I have over 7 years experience in Tang Soo Do, and currently practice it. A lot of people compare it to shotokan and other styles similar to it. Having seen some of those styles in videos online and at tournaments, I can see the comparison. I have practiced TSD in 2 different federations/associations and see differences between them. In the cobra Kai show they mention that Kreese was trained in TSD during the Vietnam war. I think with all you’ve shown, and them actually saying it, I would say it’s a variant of tang soo do.
My experience with Tang Soo Do vs Karate is that Tang Soo Do has much nicer kicks. In general, I've always felt Korean style martial arts have the best kicking techniques though their hand placement (guard) during their kicks leave a lot to be desired
@@harrysapienn7911 taekwondo is way worse during sparring about keeping their hands up and it drives me nuts. In Tang Soo Do (at least the schools I’ve attended) teach us to keep our hands up. TKD has a lot more speed, and power when sparring and I think having the pads and needing that speed leads to poor guard. I’ve done their sparring and being a shorter guy, it’s harder to get my kicks in when I’m sparring guys with long legs, but I’m able to get in with punches if I’m quick enough because they don’t keep their guard up!
@@harrysapienn7911 also! In Tang Soo do and taekwondo, it seems like our kicks are way higher than in other karate styles, do you find this also?
@@TheOctabreaker hello i have done 3 years of TSD and I’m a red belt and was wondering what you rank is
@@niny_tigga I did 7 years as a kid and was ready for black belt but the federation costs were too expensive. I’ve been back in for about a year and they had me do a test and placed me at 3rd Dan ( advanced brown for my school) so I’m 3 belts away from black our belt ranks are as follows white, advanced white, orange, advanced orange, green, advanced green, brown, advanced brown, red, advanced red, cho dan bo(dark blue belt, considered a pre black belt), and then black.
What is your belt system like?
I was training in Goju-Ryu when the movie came out, and was ecstatic that I recognized Mr. Miyagi's style 😁
Yeah, I'm old. I still remember that training fondly.
I do Goju ryu and yeah it is kinda like Mr. Miyagis style
Oss. I'm Shotokan
People also forget in the OG Karate Kid Johnny can be heard giving class instruction during warm up in Korean.
Chuck Norris actually learnt Tang Soo Do while stationed in Korea with the US military. It would line up that Kreese and Silver, ex-military men, could've also learned TSD in Korea.
the Kick exists in Karate, it's called mae tobe geri. Lyoto Machida used it to defeat Randy Couture. Just not as stylized.
A double front kick basically yes, but the crane kick as presented by the film with the arms, mysticism and style was made up.
absolutely, the kick was not a jump front kick but a double pichagi there is a difference, I also seen Johnny do a double front kick, looks similar to a jump front kick but is bio mechanically different, the KK crane kick is just a jump front kick that is already chambered as opposed to starting from a fighting stance
I saw that fight i love machida
It's just a jumping front snap kick.not a crane
Art of One Dojo The kick in the film is from White Crane Kung fu (where karate comes from)
It's pretty clear that Miyagi-Do and its back-story is based off of Goju-Ryu. It's likely that Cobra Kai (at least part of the back story) is also based from the story of Goju-Ryu's American cousin.
There is actually (more than one) Americanized style of Goju-Ryu. These styles have their roots directly in the US military occupation of Okinawa after world war II. Yamaguchi, the first heir of Goju did train a number of foreign students but did not believe they ever deserved the rank of master. Many of Yamaguchi's American students did come back to the US to branch out and create their own styles of Goju mixing a more Americanized militaristic training with traditional Okinawan Goju. Peter Urban is a prime example of this. Urban taught basic elements of Boxing and Judo. Something many of his students still do today.
There is a style of Goju that dates back to the early 70's that not only had a fierce militaristic style of training but also used a Cobra as its call sign. American Cobra Goju founded by the late Nelson G Garcia used the logo of a Cobra with the traditional Goju fist in the center. Nelson Garcia died a few years back and did not leave an heir to his style however some of Garcia's students are still operating Cobra Goju schools across Florida.
Lol it was officially confirmed in season 3 that kreese learned tang soo do
I 100% agree with the analysis. I said over 10 years ago it was goju-ryu karate and Tang soo do
yep. fair to say it's Tang Soo Do. You noted the emphasis on kicks used by Johnny and the other Cobra Kai students (as seen in the tournament scenes). Korean arts are "kick-heavy" and Pat Johnson's base art is Tang Soo Do; seems only reasonable to say that Tang Soo Do is the base art for Cobra Kai students perhaps with some variations from Master Johnson's creativity
Excellent video brother. Good job. Keep up the good work.
What a great video. Thanks for making it.
Also with Cobra Kai, there was an episode in Season 1 where Sensei Lawrence addresses the students with “Chun bi”, a Korean term for ready stance. Johnny also uses various Japanese words throughout Season 1 so Tang Soon Do would be an appropriate answer to the question.
Chun bi is ready stance in my tkd class
Jun-bi is the Korean word for "ready". I did not catch that when I watched it. I'll have to watch again and find it. Now I'm curious.
"Choon bi" in Korean equates to "spring fertilizing" while "Joon bi" equates to prepare and can also relate to readiness.
William Zabka continued training in TSD since the movies and probably adlibbed the line not thinking about it. Also, their master trained in Korea, i train in the US and have in Portugal, most classes are taught in the home tongue. TSD is essentially Korean Shotokan, but given the diversity of the actors in the film and the stunt doubles were all Shito ryu, Shotokan was easier to train them in. Otherwise all their black belts would have needed an arsenal of head kicks. Back in the day , people in general were saying it was Shotokan (although really a variant of which TSD and Shito ryu are both) . Martin Krove trained in the Dante system and created his speeches and the dojo based on that, but not the physical art. They wont commit to a style officially since they are trying not to offend. Counte Dante is long dead. Lawrence also states in the series, No not TKD, or MMA good old fashioned KARATE, why not say Tang Soo Do? He said Tae Kwon Do. Notably as the tv series progresses I would expect it to start looking more and more like Tang Soo Do since Zabka is still active in the art and it wont take away from Cobra Kai Karate to do so.
Great video. Explained really well which real martial arts were used in the making of the Karate Kid movies.
Its been confirmed to be tang soo do, even thought it doesnt look like it
Master Pat Johnson has had quite an illustrious career as a stuntman and, even more so, as a stunt choreographer/coordinator. Besides the 3 original Karate Kid movies, the 3 original TNMT movies and the first 2 Mortal Kombat movies, Pat was also stunt coordinator/choreographer for Showdown in Little Tokyo (with Brandon Lee and Dolph Lundgren), To Live and Die in L.A., Batman & Robin (but don't blame the movie on him!), Punisher: War Zone, Force: Five (with Joe Lewis) and many more.
BTW, although not called the 'White Crane' technique, we do teach that kick in the American Karate system. We call it a flying front kick, form 2 (because the second foot off the ground delivers the kick).
I watched an interview with Billy Zabka and Ralph Macchio. Zabka says something like "We were trained separately. I was trained in Korean style and [Macchio] was trained in Okinawan style".
Plus, the name "Tang Soo Do" is the Korean pronunciation for the ORIGINAL kanji for "Karate-do" which translates to "Way of the Tang (Dynasty) Hand" instead of the current "Way of the Empty Hand". The style itself was created by Koreans who trained in Japanese karate (primarily Shotokan, since that was the mainstream karate style in Japan at the time) during WWII. Since Tang Soo Do is descended from Shotokan, I can totally see how Shotokan guys would recognize those techniques and methods.
In Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan there were influences from Shudokan, Shito Ryu, Shorin Ryu, Northern Shaolin and Taijiquan as well.
Right. I know there are styles of modern Korean martial arts that have a heavier Chinese influence, such as those whose founders are originally from what is now North Korea.
I had a close friend in college who practiced one such style. He just referred to it as taekwondo, but he told me this whole story about how the founder of his style was from what is now North Korea and escaped down south during the Korean War. His style in particular was very flowy looking more like taijiquan or some form of wushu, rather than the more karate-esque styles I typically see out of taekwondo.
From what I could tell about my friend's style, a lot of the basic training methods were very typical taekwondo/karate (punching in horse stance, basic upper/middle/lower blocks, etc), and it even shared many forms with karate (his school had the Naihanchi/Tekki series of kata, but they were called "Chulgi" which is the Korean translation of Tekki), but the more advanced stuff looked very old school Chinese.
@@WiiMan25 All very interesting stuff for me as a newish TSD practitioner, thank you. Certainly, the first 'real' forms we are taught in our club, which is Moo Duk Kwan, are the Pinin series (there are 3 'basic' forms preceeding them), there are minor differences but it is essentially the same.
As someone has studied a style called go kan ryu which is a combination of gojukai and shotokan it all looks so familiar.
Actually the word 'Tang' (唐）means 'chinese'.
The movies inspired me to get into martial arts training too. I never really thought much about the styles until I became an advanced black belt and starting my own school. I clearly say Miyagi Do as Goju Ryu. I had beloved that Kyokushikai was Cobra Kai as it had the kick heavy style and brutal culture, but Tang soo Do makes a lot of sense for the reasons this video highlighted. My style is an offshoot of Kyokushin (Seido) and the katas and movements have their roots in Okinawan karate. So it was always a conundrum as an adult to see these movies and figure out their origins. And like most Japanese martial arts they are derivatives from Kung Fu brought back to Okinawa around 16z uth century.
The movies definitely altered the arts to make them more presentable on camera (for the time it was released) and the general public in the 80s was not as educated in the martial arts as today so a lot of it was simplified. That is what made this video fun to do because it's fun to go through it and pick up the little parts to try to find the roots.
I also love it when I hear people say the film inspired them to start training as well, just shows how impactful it was for our generation.
How does Seido differ from Kyokushin? What do you like most about it?
Cobra kai is not kyokushin, the easy way to see that is the missing of the word osu.
Good point
You know Kaicho had a cameo in the first movie. Daniel -San was reading this is karate by Oyama Kancho. It was open to the page Kaicho nukite a watermelon
Lannel Bishop now I’m going to have to watch it just to se that!
This is so cool!
I did not know that a student of Chuck Noris, with his own wicked stash, did the choreography on these movies, Ninja turtles and Mortal Kombat!
And i like the way he trained everyone!
He later lost the stache. Another interesting factoid is that there's two fights in mortal kombat that he didn't choreograph. They were instead done by the guy that played Liu Kang, whose name escapes me unfortunately, and it's painfully obvious when you look at them. That guy came from the Hong Kong school of fight choreography. No disrespect to Mr. Johnson, but those two fight scenes kick major ass compared to the rest. Johnny Cage vs Skorpion, and Liu Kang vs Reptile. If he'd been allowed to do the rest of the fights in the movie, it'd have probably been much more badass.
@@Breaker197 That is some crazy stuff!
in the simplest terms, miyagi-do does "kara te", and cobra kai does "kuh-rottie"
@Michael Pullins you mean saying "kawruh taaaay" in a smug voice?
Haha that's great, I love that!
I visited Goju Ryu dojos in the 90s in Okinawa. I was told the producers visited them in the early 80s for inspiration. Also the original Paint the fence, Paint the house block is from a Goju Ryu kata called Tensho.
There was an interview with Pat Johnson for Karate Kid 3 where he specifically talks about using Goju-Ryu. Chojun Miyagi trained Sensei Teruo Chinen, who was the greatest karate teacher of all time. Sensei Chinen always talked about Goju-Ryu coming from white crane gung-fu.
Great vid dude!!
Nice video! This is what I have been looking for.
Check out our Cobra Kai playlist, we have several Karate Kid/Cobra Kai videos with more coming soon!
@@ArtofOneDojo Thanks again. I know I shouldn't believe everything in movies. These videos cleared them up for me. 😆
When you watch S3 and realize this guy way right all the time :3
:D
Fun fact, both Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do were heavily based on Shotokan by combining it with Soo Bahk, the main difference is that there is also much more influence from Northern Kung Fu and Okinawan Karate styles and Judo in Tang Soo Do. If there are other influences for Tae Kwon Do I just don't know them, as I never practiced it but if someone knows, fill me in.
Great job Dan!
Makes good sense to me. This was what I thought when the movies first came out y’all just gave more information.
Cobra kai is Tang soo doo.
Since pat Johnson choreographed it and he's a Tang soo do master. !!
Besides I used to train in Tang soo do. I recognize it..
The great mistery of what style is kobra kai is tang so do is apear in the 3 season back story of john
Very interesting & well thought video! Thank you for creating & sharing it.
... and of course the t-shirt is great ;)
Great stuff....enjoyed the behind the scenes
I come from the future. Cobra kai is indeed based on Tang Soo Do.
Okinawan Karate and Adapted Tang Soo Do is objectively correct. The creators and actors have confirmed that so the discussion is over and you are correct.
Very well done video, appreciate your research!!
Awesome commentary! Great breakdown.
Check out our Cobra Kai playlist! We go into a lot more detail :)
Oh boy! You're going to get the onslaught of opnions with those questions Dan my man! 😊 Great video! Easy to watch and fun! 👍 It's difficult to tell what art they are portraying since actors and stunt men are performing modified versions of the arts in question. To me it looks like a hybrid of Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do with a dash of George Dillman. 😜
This guy already nailed what I was thinking xD
The second karate kid movie made, myagi a scam artist
Mister myagi ( or whatever his real name was supposed to be ) was actually, terry silvers new business investor
I don't think you've seen the same movie as the rest of us lol.
Art of One Dojo
, ok - whatever ☺
Seriously, your claims don't make any sense and don't apply to any of the Karate Kid films. I'm not sure what you saw or what you are referencing, or maybe you saw the films many many years ago and don't remember them well, but your claims on the movie didn't happen in the movie so I'm not sure where you are getting them from.
Pat Johnson also starred in enter the dragon as the villain who tries to get the money off roper,when playing golf
M. O.G. It’s the doe roper or we gotta break something!
In that scene, you see him wearing a silver Moo Duk Kwan pin. That pin was given to senior yodanja (non-master blackbelts). Kodanja (masters) were given a gold version of the pin, while a copper version of the pin was given to 1st dans.
@@JasePow68 Pat was a third degree black belt at the time.
Great analysis! Thanks!
Thanks for the info... Great video
The Myagi-do style is collectively Naha-te which includes Gojo-Ryu as well as other styles. A central influenced was Southern White Crane Kungfu from China that was imported into Okinawa. Interestingly, as a Shaolin Kempo student, the 8 point blocking system as practiced open handed is basically the identical to the one shown in the first Karate Kid.
If you pay close attention in Cobra Kai, Johnny bows in his class with Joon Bi, a Korean term used in Tae kwon do, Tang Soo Do and Hapkido...it means ready stance
Awesome video, cheers!
Another great video Dan. 👍
The analysis is accurate, which can be supported by recent interviews from the two principal actors.
Cobra Kai: *Death* Kune Do 💀
Ha! Love it!
Death Kwon Do from the regular show
Great info again.
Really great analysis. Of course we'll really never know for sure, however I think that you're fax line up very well and it's an incredibly plausible conclusion
You forgot to mention Fumio Demuro's part in the original Karate kid as a technical advisor. At least that is what was stated a few months ago in Martial Arts Success Magazine. As far as the crane kick, it is a variation of the scissor kick in traditional Karate. The block Daniel San is doing while doing the kick are tencho blocks, very common in Goju. The Kata they are doing is Seiunchin Kata, it is a very common Goju Kata I would almost say Goju's flagship Kata. Then what would I know? I am only a 7th dan who put my first gi on 50 years ago.
I did address this in the second video :) czcams.com/video/Ct9DqIrpAqk/video.html
Thank you for sharing. Much respect to you, sir.
The kick itself is a real Karate technique, its in the kata Chinto, but putting your arms up like that seems more like a Kung Fu type of posture
The double front kick part is real yes, but even Daryl Vidal said that he took the double front kick and added the stance, the arms up and the mysticism behind it. The crane kick as it is portrayed in the film is made up.
Weirdly enough there is a crane posture in traditional karate, control the biceps in the clinch and knee. It's in the bubishi and motobu choki demonstrates it in one of his books. Done solo you spread your arms and raise one leg which by coincidence isn't too dissimilar from the movie posture. No kick afterwards though
07:54 “but it's not based on any reality”
@@antony9025 yes, the similarity between the postures and the name is just a coincidence
it is actually one of crane kung fu's basic stances.
I thing I got hooked by this channel! Anyway, just my thoughts about the crane kick and a couple of facts. As you know, the screenwriter Robert M. Kamen was a Goju-Ryu practitioner. He was a student in Toguchi Seikichi's Shorei-Kan. In Shorei-Kan, we have this kata, called Hakutsuru no Mai (The Dance of the White Crane) which is our flagship as it was created directly from Toguchi Sensei as the tenth and last Fukyu Kata. In this kata, we perform a similar technique twice: the first one with a different hand position but same kick (just not that high) and the second one with the same hands position but no kicks. So, the iconic technique that gave Daniel San the winning point, seems to be combination of these two techniques. And, IMHO, the fact that Mr. Kamen trained in the Shorei-Kan should at least lead to a reopening of this cold case!
It also explains why in Karate Kid part 2 Sato and Chozen have the last name of "Toguchi". :D
Yes, it does ;)
I was taught by Son Duk Cho in the late 80s. He had a school in my town, and was a master of Tang Soo Do. I have said for decades that was the Cobra Kai style. You nailed it, sir. I'm going to watch more of your videos now.
So series 3 of Cobra Kai has confirmed that Kreese's style of karate is Tang Soo Do!
I have all the other Commenters Beat.
I just found in the Attic my Original Karate Kid Action Figures and the pre-broken wooden chop stacks
Add in some flavor from China as Mr. Miyagi mentions that an ancestor of his from the early 1600's fell asleep drunk in a fishing boat and landed on the eastern coast of China, returning 10 years later with 'the secret of miyagi family karate'. So he may have just learned some fighting philosophy from people there rather than outright learning some of what they practiced, or he may have learned a few moves which people from Okinawa did not know and made their family style unique.
Awesome!
Well it was tang soo do, in season 3 of cobra Kai kreese’s army teacher said it was tang soo do in a Way
Yup. They outright confirmed it.
He also doubled for Morita during the Halloween beating when Miyagi drops in as Daniel was outnumbered by the skeleton dressed Cobras.
I pointed this out to my gf ( we both grew up watching karate kid films in the 80s ) that some of those kicks from Johnny was taekwondo. I hold a 2nd degree black belt in taekwondo and have been doing it since the 80s but I am proud to be black belt in goju ryu karate also. Thanks for making this video man.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Cobra Kai and Miyagi-do are at the very least variants of the two styles named in the video. It would only make sense, given that Pat Johnson was the man to come up with both and things lining up in the movies the way they do(which still carries over very well in the new series). I've seen a lot of people argue over it being other styles, but one thing most people either don't remember or neglect to admit, is that most styles have very similar stances and move sets with one another when it comes to general application. Typically, the styles are specialized in either a specific mindset, specific set of moves/forms/weapons or a combo of all the above, but the basics will for the most part remain the same throughout almost every style (everyone knows how to throw a front punch, back kick, hook kick, etc). When it comes to Asian martial arts, there have been so many thousands of years, tens of thousands of students and tens of thousands of styles(most of which are most likely lost to time) from all over China, Korea, Japan, etc, that it's no wonder the lines became so blurred and many things would cross over from one style to another. To this day, even Wudangquan is actually 5-6 different styles being combined into one umbrella style, which is then further broken down into 2 separate entities focusing on different aspects of the styles incorporated within the system, as well as one claiming true lineage over the over. Stuff like this happens all the time. Shaolin is another famous atyle, which actually incorporates hundreds of different styles combined to create one "ultimate" style. I think that again, the styles mentioned in the video are the closest we will ever get to knowing what is being taught by both schools and, as far as the others who wish to keep arguing the point that "this is clearly from this style, I know what I'm talking about", let them talk. At the end of the day it's a set of movies and a show that has kept martial arts relevant in the world since the 80s, it's inspired millions of people(myself included) to learn as much as possible about the arts and will continue to do so.
Acredito também que o Karate da Cobra Kai poderia ser mais uma interpretação americana do Karate de modo genérico, ou seja, uma fusão do Karate japonês como o Shotokan com artes marciais coreanas como o Tae Kwon Do ou mesmo o Tang Soo Do. Pelo que noto os americanos não se prendem a métodos tradicionais orientais e criam sempre seus próprios métodos, mas uma coisa é certa. A palavra Karate e Kai são japonesas.
I think you're dead on about both styles. In the 1st film miyagi even mentioned that his ancestor renamed Te which lends credence to the Goju ryu guess, as well as Goju being a descendant of White Crane Kung Fu, ergo the crane technique. As to cobra Kai, knowing the choreographers style as well as the line about masters in South Korea is good enough evidence to me that it is Tang Soo Do. Johnny's kicking style as well as Dutch's series of crescent kicks are just further evidence. I can't understand why anyone would think it was Kyokushin! That style and its competition is so different from anything on the movie. Good job, and great video!
I guess they think it's Kyokushin due to the more full-contact approach to it, the focus on physical conditioning and a bigger arsenal of kicks, although the way those kicks are delivered gives up the origin: Japanese martial arts are more stiff and strengh-based, whereas in Korea they are lighter and faster.
Ok, just to be coherent with the way those movies show it, I'd say Miyagi-Do is a family-developed style of Goju-Ryu, just like some famous family styles Hung Gar and the Chen style Tai-Chi. Cobra Kai, on the other hand, was founded by a former US Special Forces that likely learned his Karate on the Army, where the art was mixed and adapted with other influences either in search of a more military pedigree or due to local influences - In Kresse's case he likely learned while stationed in Korea, with influences from the Army's karate instructors and his own local teacher. Oh, and with some ASSHOLE sprinkled on it for flavor :P
It is Tang Soo Do the actor stated it in a interview
Ok ☺
And it's definitely not Tae Kwon Do, or otherwise they wouldn't call it Karate in the movie, cause Tae Kwon Do isn't a form of Karate even though they may share some similarities in the way they kick and punch.
James C : Karate is Karate, I studied TaeKwando for several years and our forms were identical to Shotokan.
Watching Daniel do that Goju kata made all us Goju guys stick our chests out a bit. I recognized Miyagis name instantky back in the day. And the fact that he came from okinawa made him doing goju a no brainer
I use to train in Goju Ryu style for a few years growing up and noticed they do a kata variation that I use to do. There is even a crane kata as well. So I totally agree with you. I kinda miss it and watching Cobra Kai really makes me want to train again. I never could place Cobra Kai style so thanks for answering that too.
Not only are you beautiful but you know martial arts :-) ...your awesome Rascal Ragdoll!
At least inside their own "Universe" I've always looked at Cobra Kai as a mixture of a traditional Martial art Kreese learned at a civilian dojo mixed in with hand to hand combat he learned in the Army.
*I done the crane kick to my bully ..*
Now I’m in hospital 😂
How
Pineapple Pizza is trash Basically my weight pushed me back when I jumped 😬
That was fun... thanks!
Great, informative video for martial arts practitioners and fans of the movies/series alike.
Front hit, front kick, SIDE DAB!!!
It's a snake-doo
Art of One Dojo what’s a snake do?
In that scene Johnny would’ve laughed but to impress Krease he didn’t and screamed instead😂😂😂😂
Are you imitating a Thai speaking English?
The Kick is a version of Mae Tobi Geri from Goju Ryu. The difference is that in the real one, you keep your arms on guard to not getting punched. The kata is a version of Seyunchin, from Goju Ryu as well. You can see videos of the real one beautifully performed by Sensei Morio Higaonna and sensei Tetsuji Nakamura.
I always assumed John Kreese learned Karate when training in the armed forces prior to Vietnam but that was as far as I could go. You really outdid yourself on this one it’s very well researched.
I m 51, karaté kid brought me to karaté, full contact, kickboxing, Thaï boxing, and now i m back to karaté and happy with that. I 'm french and by chance i stumbled on "cobra Kai" , that's an amazing show. Greeting from France sensei. 😉
It really is a great show isn't it? Can't wait for season 2!
I took a karate class when I was a kid back in the 80's. The instructor showed us a picture of the original Miyagi guy and explained that it came from Okinawa and all that but he never said what the style was called.
Goju Ryu, There's pictures of him as easter eggs in the original movies and the TV show
They jus confirmed that cobra kai style is tang soo do don't know if you watched the entire season 3 yet but the captain who trained kreese confirmed it
In one episode of Cobra Kai, when John Cresse (idk if that's how you spell it) was younger and in the army he was pulled aside by the general for a different mission. This mission will involve more hand to hand combat, and the general mentioned that the martial art used in the Korean water was Tang Soo Do. That's when I assumed it was Tang Soo Do.
awesome analysis
The name of the man who introduced Tang Soo Do to US in 1960s was Jhoon Rhee. In 1980s he had a network of dojos in the Washington D. C. area. It might be accidental that his name is similar to John Kreese, but maybe it's not. Pat Johnson must have heard of him, at the very least.
The Korean school are called dojangs-not dojos.
'Nobody bothers me!" I remember the commercials lol
Master Ken from "Ameri Do Te" is the Original master of Kreese.. Therefore, they use the famous martial art *AMERI - DO - TE*
😀 All other styles are bulls**t compared to Ameri Do Te🐯
I don't know about the Goji Ryu, but having trained Tang Soo Do, I definitely agree with you about the Cobra Kai dojo. I lean more to TSD over TKD because of the amount of hand techniques that were used. In my experience, TKD uses almost entirely kicks and only a limited use of hands.
Fun channel. Great stuff.