Simple Intro to Move Values in Go (Weiqi, Baduk)
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- Learn how to calculate the point value of a move in Go, ie. how much change is made to the black vs. white whole-board score. This video is an intro focusing on one main example that comes up in every game. This isn't just endgame, it affects your judgements at every stage!
Use video comments to ask questions and request more parts to this. There's a lot more to talk about (how sente/gote/reverse-sente/double sente move value multipliers affect the assessment, when to choose the gote move vs. the sente variant, how to think about follow-ups and follow-ups of follow-ups, more key 2nd-line move values to remember etc).
I'll always respond to your questions and comments! I'm happy to help and it also helps my video/channel performance and growth ^_^
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Video comments help me in many ways, please Comment/Like/Subscribe if you want more - Zábava
Thanks for the video, definitely sharing with my club! I especially liked the analysis of subtle variations and how it adjusts the point value from the parent position.
Glad I could help! Thanks for sharing it ^_^
I really appreciate you and your channel! This video was super helpful!
Thank you :)
QUESTIONS FOR YOU:
- How big is the move I asked you about towards the end of the video? What is the base value of it (how many points are at stake for either side, assuming local sente is always responded to)?
- What did you think of the bag of candy analogy? I didn't tell it as well as usual, but basically when a gote move has some sente follow-ups (privilege moves) that are thus pretty much guaranteed, all of that combined is basically one "package" in that for all of it you only had to take gote one time. We just eat one candy first, but we are guaranteed the rest of the candy in the bag later as long as we don't forget. We still only paid the price of one move for all of it. Do the "package" and "privilege" ideas make sense to you? "Privilege" is like "it is their RIGHT to get these sente moves."
- Do you know what reverse-sente is? Do you know about how moves being reverse-sente, sente or double-sente amplify the base value when compared to it being just gote for both colors?
- What would you like videos about, whether related to this video topic or not?
I'm thinking that it's worth 6 points in sente (so do we count that as 12 points?) If white plays first, white will get to continue at L1. But black will eventually play at K3, and white will respond at J2. So I'm not sure how to value that.
@@rmoseson You're absolutely right!
It's good that you factored in the K3 J2 thing. Black and white each have 3 points at stake, all 6 of which are affected when one player or the other players this diagonal. The sente follow-ups as you said are assumed to happen.
It is indeed seen as 12 points in a way; the "base value" as I call it, which is the raw point change / total swing before we apply any multipliers, is 6 points, but because it's done in sente and we get to move again after, then it's considered to be at least twice as good as a 6-point gote move would be.
Reverse-sente is like x2
(so 6 reverse-sente--which is a type of anti-sente gote move--would be worth 12)
Since a reverse-sente is still a kind of gote move and we lose the initiative, it can only be x2 at most.
Sente, on the other hand, might continue on and on and that really depends on the players (ie. how defensive the opponent keeps being around the board?), so sente is sort of better than just x2, more like x2 with an asterisk? Or you might say " x 2+"
Of course, this logic is based on the assumption that the board generally has multiple moves of similar value available, so in some situations we still need to use our own sense and be realistic.
For example,
at the very end of the game if the last moves for us are:
A) a 2-point gote
B) a 1-point reverse sente (anti-sente in gote)
Which one do we choose?
I really appreciate your detailed explanations! And yes, I loved the bag of candy analogy.
This is very useful knowledge! Love it!
Thanks :)
too good,ty
Thank you :)
Thanks for the video. For the last move value at K2 I think it is 6 points in Sente. It feels bigger though because playing there also removes a Sente from your opponent; so maybe I'm missing something about move values of double Sente moves.
After thinking about it more the real question is how many points is the follow up if the other player tenukis K2? This would help determine when the move is actually double sente. Then when the value of moves decreases to the point where K2 becomes double sente it should be played immediately.
@@Lavitz916 Exactly! It's a 6-point move for either side when responded to, and before doing any multiplication. You seem familiar with things like reverse-sente being twice as good as regular gote, sente being *at least* twice as good as the same value of gote, stuff like that (ie. 5-point sente is comparable to 10-point gote, but of course always depends on what's actually on the board and it's all just a guide to help with prioritizing).
So to respond more directly to your comment--yeah, 6-point sente (double sente / sente for both in this case, which makes it twice as urgent as the same value of regular sente), and whether it's GLOBALLY actually sente in the full game context depends on how many points it's threatening to destroy, like you said.
When it will be responded to it's 6-point double sente, when it won't be responded to it's N-point gote where N is some much bigger number. We can just call it 6-point sente (or double-sente if we're going that far) when we're talking about just the local area (that is, it FINISHES in sente), and I think studying in a very local sense works just fine for improving our global play as long as we understand that local sente isn't always sente in a real game. All that means though is don't have tunnel vision, really :)