Wikipedia's King who Doesn't Exist | What Happened Next
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
- In the first full episode of the self-proclaimed number one Welsh history podcast, history CZcamsr Cambrian Chronicles, and comedian Patrick O'Connell, solve the mystery of Anwn Ddu, the non-existent king added to Wikipedia's 'List of Rulers of Wales' page.
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** Credits **
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"Ethernight Club" - Kevin MacLeod (incometech.com), licensed under CC BY 4.0. creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/deed
Liam Neeson - Georges Biard, CC BY-SA 3.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/... li, via Wikimedia Commons
Welsh Dragon - Tobias Jakobs, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
Thanks everyone for listening/watching! It takes a little while to finish the visuals for each episode, which means that the audio-only versions go up on podcast apps a lot earlier. You can listen to our episode on early King Arthur right now! Available (almost) anywhere you can get podcasts. Check the linktree in the episode description to see where.
At this point we may as well trash all of “Welsh history” as mythology. Much like Atlantis or Camelot, Wales likely never existed.
Wait till you find out about "England"... crazy stuff
@@MadDogsofCambria How long have we been lied to about the so called 'British Isles'? The mind boggles.
@@MadDogsofCambria So you're telling me that a bunch of Danes invaded, and then after they fought them off, they get invaded by more Danes that had moved to France and started speaking French? And then they lose to the French Vikings? And then they end up with Germans on the throne? Okay. Sure, bud.
@@GuyNamedSeanEven their supposed language, "english" has no basis in linguistics whatsoever
@@alexandreparot5846what are you on about you dunce, of course the English language exists (just as much as any other language does)
Source: am a linguist
Man, Marc Antony in a random geneology being updated to King of three kingdoms in Wales. The extent of Roman influence is truly fantastical.
your mention of people on genealogy websites just making weird connections, reminded me of when my dad and sister were working on our genealogy. They had found that at one point where our ancestory interacted with someone elses, the other person had put someone (can't remember the name) as their own great grandma, and on top of that it wasn't even the right person (if i remember correctly the first name was right and thats the only thing that was correct) which meant we had to completely delete that whole section and start from scratch. and there were also just a bunch of times were we had to clear alot of lines because someone had confused different people for each other, or obviously just really wanted to make certain connections happen despite it not being the case in reality.
Thanks for sharing, Michael! Personally, I think you should go a step further and introduce your own random choice of ancestor. Spice things up a little. - Pat
As an amateur genealogist I see this all the time! It’s so frustrating! I’ll admit even I did this when I first started out but I think I have reversed them all.
@@MadDogsofCambriaKEEP MAKING GENEALOGY RELATED CONTENT ITS REALLY INTERESTING :D
My wife and I were looking for a name for our baby, Annun Ddu just moved to the top of the list.
Dramatic Wikipedia talk pages really are some of the Internets funniest little hidden gems
*GEORGE ORWELL WARNED US ABOUT THIS.*
Edit: Reminds me of when I got a 5 (or so) year ban from Wookiepedia editing for trying to add *(Clone)* to Boba Fett’s species tag
They hated you because you spoke the truth...
hey I mean you won.
As a teacher I had put it; "Don't trust any nobles genealogy tree from the 17th century and older. It becomes pure fantasy and self service"
_Nobility is a lie._
Reminds me of a book by a German scholar on Greek noble families. On the one side, the supposed ancestors are mythical heroes; on the other, the last, most recent ones are all real people. In the middle it's a bit complicated, filled with fancy names of dubious historicity. That mythical part though is there to give legitimacy and authority to the corresponding noble family, a bit like the Egyptian king is called "Son of Ra".
isn't that still true with all the doubts about certain members of the Royal Family actually being biological parent of their successors?
the website I think that first commenter was referring to is called geni which is basically one big family tree for the whole world. And if a person in your family tree looks similar to someone in someone else’s (e.g same birthday, death day, location of birth, name, parents, etc) you can merge the two together. After doing that a bunch of times you create one big family tree. But obviously (and I am no exception to this), people make mistakes (sometimes on purpose), and combine ppl together who aren’t the same.
Interesting!
Have you ever seen the war that happened on Croatian Wikipedia? Fredda did a video about it and how wild it got at points
Will check it out!
out of everything i wouldent have expected Warrior Cats being mentioned here 😂
Really enjoyable video 👍
I used to write fanfiction of it as a kid ngl - Pat
I've also had some weird genealogy connections, or more precisely fabrications, where someone had made a family tree of some parts of my family who all live in the UK, but then gave them all custom made coats of arms (we don't have any) and moved their birth locations to the United States (most never left the UK) and indepth back stories for moving about in the United States, which was very confusing when we went to start doing the family tree.
Mark Antony controlled the eastern (ie Greek) portion of the Roman Empire *before* his civil war with Octavian (later Augustus Caesar), not after. The partition was the final one in a series of such partitions made between Antony and Octavian (and other less important Roman leaders) in an attempt to delay and avoid a repeat of the previous civil wars between Julius Caesar and Pompy Magnus (and others) of only a few years prior, and the civil wars between Marius and Sulla of a generation beforehand. After Antony and Octavian's civil war (The Final War of The Roman Republic, one of the only badass names historians have ever come up with), Antony didn't control any territory at all, because he was dead.
that’s my bad, I mixed the orders up in my head, it’s been a while since I covered the topic, sorry
-Cam
I believe you are forgetting the civil war between the Second Triumvirate and the Conspirators, after which Anthony was given Greece. Wikipedia calls it “the Liberator’s Civil War” though I feel like ive read about it under a different name. Regardless, saying anthony ruled Greece after the civil war i think is still accurate because I dont think he mentioned which civil war. (Unless he did and then im wrong)
Great work - I really appreciate these companion-style episodes as someone who’s really interested in Welsh history but has no familiarity with the subject. I’m also looking forward to the upcoming THrowing Rocks at Chimps episode, cheers.
That's good to hear! And yeah, it's gonna be a wild one
*I* thought the Lin Manuel-Miranda joke was funny
I KNEW it! - Pat
The old map looks much more pig-head like
I just looked and you're right! I still like my "guy in a cloak" vision though. - Pat
“Rex Geekorum” was great!
Question for the next vid: King Arthur falls under the “King in the Mountain” trope, so have there been any archeological digs in these supposed entombment sights? If so, what has been found?
Our Arthur episode is actually finished by now - you can listen to it on most podcast apps (except Apple music, working on that), and the visual should be up in a week or two. Might have a chance to include your question on the next one, though! - Pat
Thanks for fairly dismissing my uninformed question :P Plus, I get to look up Prydian now!
Thanks for asking! I didn't know about any of it, so it was really interesting to go through. - Pat
Regarding the mixer title, if I recall correctly wine was very strong and had to be mixed or diluted with water so it was actually a decently regarded title. Then again o could be misremembering.
Interesting! I might look into this; a couple others have said similar. - Pat
Not sure how this came up for me in the algorithm, but i am glad it did!
Croeso! (Almost certain that means welcome in Welsh. If not I'm sure Cam will beat the correct one into me.) - Pat
i love learning yayy more knowledge!! ^_^ so soothing..
HURRAY
Cupbearer and mixer may be rather significant it is ancient to high ranking close to the king court position. Figurative but also at times a position of inter class advisor. Reference to Ganymede greek god etc. Persians and Greeks/rome had then well into crusades
(Ganymede... um... not exactly an advisor, more a victim of abuse.) Cupbearer was basically a polite waiter position, so any polite kid could do it. Mixer was a responsible position, because he worked the flow of the party by decreeing how strong or weak the wine would be.
I can't find the podcast on apple podcasts. Any advice?
Sorry! That's on us, not you - it's the one app we're still sorting out. If you look at the linktree on our page, you'll see other places you can listen; including other free podcast apps like Pocket Casts
Thanks for making this! Just one thing - Cam's audio on this version is a slight bit choppy. It sounds like it might be the product of a slightly too aggressive / slow noise gate. You can hear that the start of many of his statements are slightly chopped off. It could also be the product of noise removal software which went too far.
What do you use to edit the podcast?
Oh, and a request at some point. Give us the maddest dog of Cambrian history. I would like a definitive story of the extent of damage to Welsh history that Iolo Morganwg has wrought, and how we can love him despite that.
That's good advice, thank you - and yes, I think you're right. On this episode, we had some mic bleed issues and I think I was a little over-brutal in trying to eradicate my voice from the background of Cam's - via noise gating in Audacity. Also - fantastic request; every other topic we look at Iolo crops up somewhere, and I've already been thinking I want to do one on him. Definitely a candidate for maddest dog. - Pat
@@MadDogsofCambria So, I might suggest switching from Audacity for your final edit over to Reaper. Reaper is a more advanced digital audio production workstation, with more powerful but still simple and intuitive tools. It lets you test things more easily, by applying effects live (as in, on the fly, not while recording, but you can do that too I just don't advise it) and non-destructively. Audacity, meanwhile, is destructive and has to load each effect as you apply it.
For example, when you apply an EQ in Audacity, the changes of that EQ are then locked into the track. Any further edits you make are then baked in too. Reaper's effects are all more powerful, and all real-time and non-destructive. This makes editing and double checking for errors like a noise gate that is too harsh so much easier.
It's really designed for editing music, but it works fantastically for podcasts too and I've been using it for all content like podcasts or interviews for years. Plus, Reafir is the single greatest tool in spoken word content for cleaning up audio.
It has a free begware version, but you'd be able to pick it up in complete form for just a one-off $60. The tools and cleaning up the workflow after you get to grips with it are well worth it though.
this Welsh royalty stuff is like Dark Souls lore in how vague the history is
"This is definitely the Dark Souls of historiography"
Is there any connection between the Brythonic kingdoms and the hill forts you can still see in Wales today. I know they're from different periods but do we know if the Welsh kings made any use of them?
Good stuff.
Thank you!
In regards to the IP being recommended to look online for sources, a bad citation is still always better than no citation, if only because someone can simply look at the source, see its wrong, and then remove the offending text without controversy. Otherwise you're actually somewhat expected to give a grace period for unsourced claims in case someone can look into it and find something, hence the {{citation needed}} template with the timestamp baked in.
Someone make a dramatic reading out of the edit war
I would love to do this - I've mentioned it to Cam as an idea for bonus content in the future. - Pat
Is the comment you couldn't find the comment mentioning Darell Walcott (which i deleted)?
(also they probably got the ynyr part from EBK)
It would be sick if you could do a video just rambling about welsh genealogy. Like just a guide to welsh genealogy would be sick. Like I remember when in a Cambrian Chronicles vid you explained that ‘ap’ meant ‘son of.’ Maybe a podcast episode on stuff like that?
…
Maybe I’d be the only person who’d find that interesting but anyway it would be sick
Rambling is our greatest strength, so this is definitely not a bad idea! - Pat
I'm so happy I'm not the only person who think it looks like pointing man!
I'm a little confused by this:
1. Is there any "real" guy named Annun Ddu/Annun the Black/Anthun the Black. Is that guy from Isle of Man real?
2. Is Ynyr, King of Gwent a fake person.
There probably was a son of Magnus Maximus named Anthun, although we don’t really know anything about him.
Ynyr is probably also real, or at least we don’t have any reason to doubt his existence any more than any other early medieval figure
-Cam
@MadDogsofCambria Thank you for the reply! Do you have any good book recommendations on Welsh history?
Do you guys have an RSS link? I generally like to keep all my podcasts organised in an RSS feed reader.
Yes we do! anchor.fm/s/f1bb6b14/podcast/rss
@@MadDogsofCambria cheers chaps
Bran the blessed is was a Brythonic King
I should not listen to this at work. Both presenters' voices are far too soothing.
This is great - but oh God - please edit out the super-loud laughter outbursts. Your voices are perfect for falling asleep. Jolting upright in bed from deep sleep: The betrayal felt, can only be equaled by that of tasting raisins instead of chocolate chips in a cookie. (Angry Shakefist!)
We had some mic bleed issues on this one meaning that our (my) laughs are extra echoey and chaotic - hopefully should be better in the future! - Pat
First time I've gotten jump scared by my own comment 6:23
Hi, after being inspired by your work Mr chronicals ;-) I decided to see what else CZcams had to off but at 25:55 in The entire history of Brecon by Pete Kelly czcams.com/video/nTh9W9Ki3Iw/video.htmlsi=d21iSsgiajK7Kfxd I was suddenly awoken from my calm listening while I cooked as he mentioned Antonius the Greek who came to govern the brecheniog. Not sure if it’s of interest to you. But was wierd to suddenly stumble on it on my first video outside your channel. Lol
We actually mention this in the podcast! Good catch
Is Wales real?
Also the Moses stuff is kinda reliable. Cuz we can trace historical figures like ottoman emperors to ppl in the Bible (although the genealogies in the Bible often skip generations). But on Geni, bc it’s one big family tree, you can see how you are related to like famous people. Like I found out that I’m Eminem’s 15th cousin 2x removed (I have fact checked each generation)
Mom's spaghetti?
How does it handle when rulers used to link themselves to Biblical figures to act as another link to the divine as well as anchoring them within the christian faith ? It was very popular to do, another famous one was linking your family to Charlemagne.
100% see the pigs head
Reply to my comment next
We'll see
I’ve already seen. In my mind’s eye - Chlo
Really funny video guys!! I’m about to hyperfixate on welsh history i can feel it creeping up on me i’ve already watched every cambrian chronicles vid 🤩🫡
Thank you! That's the goal... - Pat