Testing the Turbo Go Kart Engine On the Dyno! (How Much HP?)
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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As far as we are concerned no one has actually proven that turbo single cylinder motors can make power, the general consensus was that they generally will destroy power and not be worth any of the time or money. We found that this turbo predator 212 actually made a ton of power for being a bone stock bottom end with a turbo on it. This really opens some doors for us as we plan to fully build the engine and equip it with efi then attack the dyno again on high boost!
This thing is powered by a turbocharged predator 212 engine. What we needed to do was make a turbo manifold for the turbo predator 212, oil system, and electrical system to make sure the turbo could run completely autonomously, that way when we hook it up to the engine, we would know that there were no issues on the turbo side of things. After we did that we ran this turbo kart under boost with 2 carburetors, made custom intake piping, and finally revved it up and tuned it so it ripped! Then, a few weeks later we decided to change things up and use a single blow-through carb design with a pressurized fuel system and a 22mm mikuni.
Thanks for watching and be sure to stay tuned for this thing making some boost while driving!
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PARTS-
Mikuni Carb - www.gopowerspo...
18 pound valve springs - www.gopowerspo...
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The world needs more kids like these guys. Good clean fun that grows your brain. Been tinkering all my life. It never gets old.
Don't give up on the blow-through yet. You're really close, just need to change a couple things. You need a real fuel pump and boost-referenced 1:1 regulator, which could be used with EFI later. Boost referencing the float bowl was good; boost enrichment can be improved/adjusted with a pitot tube. The carb's fuel control would also likely benefit from a good-sized plenum between it and the turbo. An intercooler would achieve that and improve power. Food for thought.
Listen to this guy ^
Upvote this comment. They need to see it
Listen to all these guys /\/\/\
The plenum volume would keep the turbo pulsations down (one lung engine issue)
Why does no one try a draw through system? Literally use a CV carburetor
Looks like you guys still aren't using a pilot tube. Pilot tubes are important for carbureted turbos, they add a little extra pressure to the float bowls. The extra pressure helps with enriching the fuel mixture.
I'm proud of you guys. First of all, the way all of you work together: Fabulous. Where were you guys when I was in high school? All the kids I hung with were not trustworthy. Seeing this through was a good choice, and it paid off. I suggest you keep improving, simplifying and clean up the design and market it as a one or two piece system. You guys will need the money from marketing this to come up with other things later. While you're young, use that energy and plan for the future. The engine rocks!
This is what it's all about. In spite of the negative people that would consider it a waste of time. Why not do it this project with those who are just as eager and willing to find out the pros and cons of by actually getting your hands to the test.
Seeing the go cart community come together and working together is very very cool
I’ve got some decent experience with this sort of tuning and building, for a twin cylinder motor you need a minimum pre turbo and post turbo volume of 3 times the displacement of a single cylinder to radically reduce turbo surge or compressor surge, with a single cylinder that volume needs to be about 5 times the cylinder displacement on hot and cold sides of turbo. I’ll post some vids eventually of my turbo Vespa 300 EFI project. Try it, you will need fuel injection or proper blow through setup and tuning but I promise this added volume TRULY helps a LOT.
So it's a waste of time when you can buy a tillotson 212 10HP for $180
Douglas Bigblock haha yeah...but it might be worth it on a fully built engine. We were just surprised that it made any power at all.
Yep, 6 1/2 HP+ at governed 3600 RPMs stock... so would expect this much ungoverned HP (7-8) stock at higher RPMs without the turbo !!!
www.harborfreight.com/65-hp-212cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epa-69730.html
15 lbs. of boost should give about 13+ HP...
@@BuzzLOLOL IIRC it wasnt going over 5 pounds of boost, it was lean, and its basically bone stock with heavier springs in it. I have other naturally aspirated engines that have made more than that on the water brake, but they had significant head work, carb, exhaust port matching, balanced, high compression, nice cam etc. The only other person that I have seen that actually tested his engine on a "dyno" with a "turbo" was warped perception, and he lost hp. I suspect it was jetting and just not enough exhaust flow to spool the turbo.
I'm going to waste money on a turbo kit to make that kind of power when you guys are proving the point let's just take a predator and run it on a blend of nitromethane and hydrazine😂
On fleabay you can pick up an electric start duromax 440cc (18hp) right now for $96 shipped.
Awesome guys.Congratulations for proving it's worth to the doubters.I hope the your New Year brings even more success in all you do !Happy New Year to all the fans too.
Good job guys! Adding almost 50% more torque is HUGE!
Once you get the air-fuel ratio sorted and assuming you removed the governor my back of the envelope calculation says you should be around 15hp. That is better than I imagined this would do so you've taught me something already.
I wonder if you'd get more or less power if you were to use a belt to drive the turbo?
Regardless great job!
Im not doubting your understanding of air dynamics but i reccomend for an air cooled engine especially is to find a way to cool the boost (air flow from turbo into intake) which the colder the better with boost plus you know what would happen if you ran a air cooled motor behind you while being boosted for more than 20 minutes
time to get ecotrons efi kit, comes with self tuning ecu as well and can be tuned further.
Hey bbr thanks for the great vid, dont worry about the negative comments on this, you need good R&D with any build . Now you guys can go back to the drawing board and test out other stuff. Keep up the good vids.
Was awesome to see you guys work together and get good results, please do an EFI install on this as I'm yet to see it done and know you guys are the right people to learn with, I'd love to see the numbers after an efi as a comparison as well, and think you'd have one hell of a engine out of it
I dont think I have watched a video on this engine but I recommend getting a billet rod because that stock predator rod is weak and adding boost Is not the best and buliding your engine with a just valve springs and a cam would give you 10hp I'm pretty sure so get that air fuel firgued out and that engine will make way more power and honestly if you could find a smaller turbo you could probably get more boost tbh because honestly even tho that turbo is pretty small the exhaust housing mainly needs to be smaller so you can spool it faster
Good job on the dyno build.
I mainly just clicked here so I could laugh at your “dyno”. But after watching the video I’m really impressed with it. I didn’t even crack a smile.
need to really get that afr down to like 11 or 11.5 lol yikes... gonna blow that poor motor up
Lol yep watching airfuel go to 15.xx made me uncomfortable
The coolest part was the mini dyno itself. I wonder if any small engine repairers can say they dyno your engine before they hand it back to you.
Awsome hell yea i dont know if u guys have a efi kit in mind yet but ecotrons is a great setup and i would recommend it bc it is a self learning system.
I've worked on 2 ecotrons kits and they were both complete garbage.
@@user-neo71665 what motor were they on and do u know how to tune
I have an ecotrons. I second that it is garbage. Blow through is more likely to work as the ecotrons fuel system is wholly inadequate. I'm comfortable tuning carbs and efi. Avoid ecotrons.
@@stevenmurphree I had a ecotrons, and swaped the ecu out for a microsquirt. WAY better ecu.
Not trying to be rude, just want to help this work. A plenum, Airbox, whatever you want to call it, helps imensley with single cylinders, particularly a cone to cylinder to come shaped plenum right before the carb.
The people saying this can't spool the turbo are wrong. The compressor side of the turbo is a bit small for this motor, but the exhaust housing is definitely to small. I have found a hybrid turbo with an exhaust side rated for double your wanted horsepower with a compressor rated for your wanted horsepower works best. It actually spools quicker without all the back pressure from the small exhaust housing, believe it or not.
Do you guys run a fuel pump, regulator, pilot tubes, or any of those items? You could get it running great without efi.
I would love to see EFI or whatever it takes to get this right. Huge interest. Thank you guys for all the hard work.
Are y'all going to eventually put a EFI system on it would probably make at least 10+hp
If you guys can get those AFR's dialed in throughout the rev-range, you should be easily pushing 20 horse with a 212cc. But your going to need an ecu, fuel injection and possibly a wideband O2 depending on whether your going to run an open or closed circuit fuel loop.
You guys should get a stage 2 kit for the engine and remove the governor then you will be making some real power
So from what I've been reading is you need to seal off fuel bowl and pressurize it and you need 7psi of pressure higher than boost
I'd have a smile on my face the whole time watching that thing swoooosh too
I didn't know Will Ferrell could tune small engines
Perhaps the information was missed since my kids are running around like crazy - was there a stock test since the rated horsepower could be higher than advertised?
But why would you do that for only 8.5 hp when a dirt bike 125 cc makes 30 hp and has gears
should be more in the range of 11:1 AFR not 15-16 yikes. That engine was prob detonating like mad. Surprised it didnt melt or chip a piston.
I really like your intro
I applaud the effort but a turbo on these small engines seems to be a waste of time. Many have tried it on CZcams and I have yet to see one actually run good with a turbo on it. Perhaps a belt driven supercharger would work better?
There are several groms making good power with turbos on CZcams, several pitbikes and one in particular has a 150cc pit bike that spools up at a low 4000rpm, and reaches 10psi at 6000, making the useful part of the powerband 5k rpms! (11k rpm limiter)
I get this turbo project is more for fun than anything and to see what you can come up with (which is fun), but it would be so much easier to spend the $700 for the V twin and make a super offroader! Plus you get the sweet sound of a V twin. I know that's a lot of money, but it has like 20 hp stock, you wouldn't have to spend much, if any, money on upgrades.
I noticed that the intake temp. got very high (250) causing the air to be less dense. The whole point of the forced air pressure is to make the air denser when entering the head to be compressed. I didn't notice an intercooler to cool the intake air from the turbo. Did the turbo engine ever get one? Good job though on the tests.
Is it ok for these small engines to reach that high of temp? Legitimate question.
Great work gentlemen !
Great to see a few future gearheads in the making here !
Love seeing you guys actually working on something other than X-Box, etc. !
It's not about the practicality of it, it's proving the end result !
Great job gentlemen !
Great start, keep moving forward
You should run the carb through the turbo inlet, would be easier to tune that way. Then you can just run a hard pipe directly from the turbo outlet to the intake manifold.
Love the effort...single cylinder turbo is awesome
Oh my! I remember tinkering in my uncles garage on my first go kart! It had like 2HP and I could go maybe 5 to 10 mph. I was like 6. When I turned 10 my uncle got me an engine from a wrecked Yamama 125. It was a 2 stroke but it was quick! Especially because I only weighed like 80 pounds 😂
Now that I’m 16 my kart has a rebuilt Rotax 670. I think I’ll put my new welder to use and find a decent motorcycle engine. Maybe a Honda CBR 1,000RR engine. Hayabusa kart?? Prolly be like $2k just for a Busa engine tho.
The testing is the early stages. I predict triple the horsepower when all tuned in.
Very nice dyno Grant
It would boost way more easier without that restrictive exhaust... fab an open 2’’ shorty straight exhaust and you’ll be happy
Try a pull through set up with your carb. Carbs aren't designed to have air pushed through them; they're designed to pull air in. Put the carb before your turbo. And jet it bigger. Or get a bigger carb. And build your valvetrain.
Single cylinder engines need some tweaking to get the turbo to work on it
Grant : Question !
How do you like the TCT
Mech. Injection
on a PERFORMANCE
application ?
I was told to stick with a
Mikuni. or Tillotson 304.
or BORED stock carb.
Was told TCT is ok on a
stock engine .
I'm running 22Mikuni
with stock high flowing BSP. JT head. &
Isky Black Mamba cam.
Any thoughts on that ?
Thanks again Grant !
So if you could put a cvt on that motor that holds it right at the rpm for peak torque and boost that thing would move!!
+ actual tune
jdmjedi777 stage 4 first
I'm kind of confused by this. The motor always has run like crap with the turbo. Why put it on the dyno before it even runs correctly. Gonna have to go with fuel injection to get it right. It might make a little more power than stock, but it's completely unusable.
Totally agree
J Wacker it’s just for fun
it’s run like crap but still has more power then stock.
Plus to get actual proof of gains every step of the way has to be tested and verified for comparison
Because it's a learning experience.
J Wacker grants bored
To fix fueling, use a modified car fuel system, a fuel pressure regulator with a boost refference. Block off the bowl breather and ensure you have a fuel pressure gauge.
I wonder what horsepower a built motor would make compared to how much that turbo cost. That would be a neat comparison! Maybe build another motor for that or test the motor on the c10 bike. Like if you agree. Cool project though guys! It's cool seeing you guys do stuff like this! That dyno is awesome!
Built 212's make 15 - 20 HP...
Built + Supercharger = 40 hp on a 212
Great, keep it up lads, so good to see you young people getting into engines in this way, I was the same when I was young, ended up building the engines for a lot of winning race cars..
There's no replacement for displacement !
This is pretty cool just for being different but a stage 1 kit will make the same amount if not more power than this, if you have a fully built stage 4 engine then you might be able to get it working, also I would try a draw through carb
You may not see "Boost" but if you make the jet bigger you will get a boost in power until it leans out again.
What fuel is being used? I’m surprised it didn’t burn up running high 14-15 afrs. You’ll blow the welds off the intake manifold
What an awesome dyno set up
So this compared to say, buying a wrecked r3 and putting the motor on, stock. The r3 itself gets about 41 BHP. On a lighter chassis, no gearbox, with more traction, I'd assume you'd get more out of it. And you still havenlots of room for performance upgrades.
so, you took a 9.5 hp motor, put boost on it and lost 2.5 hp?
Motor makes 6.5hp stock
Im guessing the point was to just see if the turbo makes any power, rather than trying to actually get good power out of the motor?
This is what you call traumatic bonding.
Goodness that thing went past 300 degrees!!! Let it idle after the run! That’s pretty dangerous but congratulations on the power though!
Can do ecu with speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino
Late to the party, but I bet you can get that bad boy registered as an Energy Star Certified lawn sprinkler.
Put the carb before turbo and tune it properly with lambda. Runs poor in low rpm but on boost, probably blows up :)
I stuffed a vtwin 22 hp engine on my mini bike. Yall should turbo one of them
60hp I bet
B Curtis twin charge it 100 hp!
Never dynoed it. Had plans to but a rod went full send
Zach Beaty never remove the governor unless you plan to build the internals
Yass I'm excited to see you guys really build this engine, it is gonna freaking rip!
much better guys but still don't see a pitot tube you need that to get those afrs down as boost comes on
It doesn't matter if it had a turbo or not. It has the gouviner pulled out and a good card and some other things. The turbo is doing nothing
You guys need to put on billet parts , from the bottom end up through to the flywheel , get a Woodruff key for the flywheel to advance the timing , get stronger valve springs so you can rev higher without it going pop . Then work on the turbo side of things , getting the fueling right (run it rich) , I'd also recommend doubling up on the head gaskets to lower the stock compression.
He has a Mod2 cam in it, so... yeahhh...
Pretty sure they "Belletproofed" the internals as well.
They REALLY don’t want to advance timing at all. It’s pulling good, and so far there hasn’t been any dropped spark from the increased cylinder pressure. Advancing timing with a lean AFR will send the cylinder temps high and lead to knock and / or a burnt piston.
Getting the fuel trim correct will be the next big hurtle. Right now, they are barely pushing the turbo. Get the AFR down to a steady 13.5 - 13.8:1 and go for a WOT pull to 6500. 👍
What are they running, a 5.4:1 gear ?
They wont build boost with that anyways.
I know . My twin turbo car wont with a 4.56gear but will with 2.73
Just get you a zx6 motor and turbo it. Then youll have power for days and speed upwards of 160+mph on a kart. Just make sure to put some ultra fat tires on it.
My stock predator with a carb upgrade made more power then that lol. I would like to see that thing around 30hp
Hmm... i really wanna see it make big power. Ive seen 212s running 20hp NA. Is there any way we can start putting down the big numbers? :(
nice, thats where its at guys.
The question is is if u just put the headder and the mikuni on the predator how much power would it make
Did he test a stock predator on that dyno or are those just factory numbers?
i tested a stock predator on my dyno and it makes 6.5 hp on it. harbor freight advertises it as a 6.5 hp engine as well.
It loves that 5000 rpm range
A sequential setup might be needed
And here I am, making engines with 50-90cc with 20-30hp ... Fucking moped laws in norway man...
Dope as FFFFFFFFFF. Great build and vid BBR...
Cool!! Where did you get the waterbrake?
The reason you don't see successful small engine (5-6.5hp) turbo engines is because there isn't a cost effective easily accessible turbo small enough for them. Unless something has came out in the past few months the smallest turbos are for japanese kei cars and those engines are 360cc and up. EFI will help some but it will never idle or run right at lower RPMs. The engine trying to spool the too large turbo up is robbing too much power down low. I wasted untold amount of time looking into this and even the popular VW/Porsche smog pump supercharging before I just gave up. The amount of time and money trying to get a 212 to make bigger gains isn't justified by the cost of just replacing with a larger more reliable engine.
Your C10 is fresh as fuck
Now i would try moving the turbo setup over to a fully built motor and really seeing its potential and then bullet proof it and make the most powerful 212 gokart ever, and put it on something with atleast a solid axle not one wheel peel
do that with a 670cc predator. not 212
Can detonation cause a two stroke engine to seize up?
It’s a home made dump wouldn’t trust it with all the bands up and down since it’s not a wheel horse set dyno
Definitely change the main jet or move the needle up a clip also take jets with you if you guys go back and do ot again I'd keep trying tell you get it. Or then do efi. I'd still try and make the carb work!
Kylee Bates Moving clip on needle only affects mid range. When your wide open the needle is all the way out of the main jet. Main jet affects wide open throttle a/f ratio.
That is pretty dope, But it’s probably better to just grab a bigger engine
Good job guys!!!
Why was I notified about this video? I'm not subbed, and I don't believe I've ever watched a video from this channel.
Clayton R lucky you
Who really cares about the horsepower number that torque number is really good and since you know the torque is there if you can get the RPM up while making the torque.... it'll make an equal or better horsepower. the lean AFR caused it not to make the horsepower. I'm really surprised you guys didn't melt a piston or valve with that Lean of an AFR or that hot of combustion.
Exactly. You know it works with that much torque down low when they can get it to run at all. It would pull surprisingly good I think with a good afr
Guys, it's a good build but engine doesn't work properly. You should either try an efi or make it draw through instead of blow through. Check my videos if you like. On a much smaller engine, 100cc, the same turbo but draw through setup, runs so smooth and gives up to 5 psi.
Don't a stock hemi 212 make around 8hp?
Why 2 carb ? Would be better juste one next to the wastegate
This is cool but for the price you could have more power naturally aspirated🤷♂️
@Mr. Brown Bear I wish I had spare cash to do such a project. Have you considered a self learning efi with it?
@@noktrnl123 What's a good EFI system for an engine like this? You have my interest
All that money and time to make 8hp??? A stock Predator 301cc is 8hp for $229. Doesn’t make sense... Why does everyone claim 20-22hp with Stage 4 kits and no turbo???
What you guys need is a 308 Dyno cam 32 lbs valve springs and put a arc Billit rod with weisco piston be in it be under 300 bucks and rejet the carb I can see this thing in the 16 to 18 hp we race predators on karts were I from we are pushing 15 na hp
The dyno is pretty cool
seriusly? dont kidding me dude.
Kartfab fab it him self
Efi guys, way more potential that way much more reliable
Just put stage kits in it u will make around 20-25hp
Moto Migs needs your help with doing a turbo build.