The End Times - Orthodox Vs Evangelical Protestant Teachings - Presentation 1
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Join Fr. John Brown as he presents a series of lectures on "The End Times: A comparison between the Orthodox understanding and Evangelical Protestant Teachings."
The second Lecture is here: • The End Times - Orthod...
I am an Ex Jehovah's Witness who landed and joined the Evangelical Free Church. I am beginning to believe I left one cult and landed in another cult, This all happened when I found out about "John Nelson Darby" and all of his "INTERESTING" discovery's at about the same time all these other cults made their discovery's which was over 1800 years after Jesus Christ walked this earth. I am finding more and more people thinking it might be a good idea to check out Orthodoxy. Some times Old things are better than New things. This is more than likely true when it comes to Christianity also ! ! !
I too am from a PB dispensational background, not Jw, but I did attend Baptist, E-free, Presbyterian, for awhile, plus many other splinter western Christian groups, and have finally been attending Orthodox Catholic. I would love to hear how you are doing.
One of the ways God shows us that orthodoxy is the right way is by letting down the Holy Ghost in form of fire on the orthodox Easter that is celebrated based on the old church calendar. When an orthodox patriarch comes to Christs grave a day before orthodox easter, in the grave from above comes a fire which the patriarch gives to the people that have gathered. That fire doesnt burn faces, beards, hair. There are videos if you are interested to see people put that fire to their faces and nothing happens, look up Blagodatni Oganj which is what that fire is caled on serbian to see Gods wonder
I studied for years with JW’s. I wasn’t sure about it, and my sister encouraged me to pray for a sign. My coworker who is orthodox invited my family to church and after one Divine Liturgy I knew I was home.
I was also apart of the watchtower society before they change there name to JW. I looked into Judaism then noahide then into kabbalah and now I'm leading towards Orthodoxy and Christ.
Pretty sure darbys “ministry” was funded and aided by masons
Im a non denominational Christian i find that the orthodoxy sometimes aligns better of how I believe despite being brought up baptist. Thankyou for making this video.
There are no denominations. There is only one Church.
all these denominations are the work of Satan trying to divide us but satans head will be stopped by the foot of JESUS @@DocSeabright
For Over 25 years Evangelicalism has brought me nothing but misery, hatred and disappointment. Now that I am slowly moving toward Orthodoxy I am beginning to feel peace.
Same here!
Ditto
I feel this so much
Same here. I remember being scared out of my wits on being taught this whole Rapture thing in my 20s in the Bible Presbyterian church movement. Glad to be out of it.
Update?
As someone who is exploring Orthodoxy from an evangelical perspective it is AMAZING how insane the dispensational view sounds. I haven't believe it for many many years due to self study and how it isnt found in scripture and no one in the early church believed it. Not to mention the marketing boom that surrounds the dispensational view makes me VERY uncomfortable.
What parts of the OT do you believe didn't happen? Adam and Eve? Moses and the Law? What about the arrival of Christ and the birth of the Church? The so-called _dispensational_ viewpoint is nothing more than a breakdown of biblical history. What exactly are you rejecting within that perspective?
@PETER JOHN BRANDAL Of course. That's why it popped up in the 1800's 🤫
@@PETERJOHN101 He never said that those things didn't happen. It is extremely dishonest to suggest that's what he's doing.
Just because you disagree on HOW to interpret those events does not mean they deny those events wholesale. Dispensationalism is too zionist.
Plz check out pastor Arnold Murray he's a very different bible teacher and he knows the truth about the kinites
Because you're not saved
I wish more people would read the early church fathers letters. They would realize that orthodoxy is the original church. The others are schisms caused by the Papal church that split from the original counsel of churches. Decisions of theology was done under the counsel, not by individual interpretations. The schism of the Catholic church then the schisms from the protestant church. As being once a protestant, I now realize that they do not have anything to do with the "early church" because they lost the concept of apostolic succession and understanding the church tradition that was built on that. The sacraments have always been there and passed on through eastern orthodoxy.
So true yes
I am not Orthodox. I absolutely agree with you.
@Joshua D Greetings from a convert to Orthodoxy. I suggest that you find an Eastern Orthodox Church near your home and attend the liturgy on Sunday morning hear what we believe and see what we do. If I know where you live, I might be able to suggest a church.
If there is a greeter, introduce yourself and ask if you can have a service book and sit next to a friendly person that can help you during the service. After the service, join the others for coffee and ask questions of them and the clergy and ask them for things to read. Converts love to talk with others about the Church!
Visit the bookstore. I'm a member of St. Barnabas Antiochian Orthodox Church in Costa Mesa, California. Most of our adults are converts. We have little booklets that are free for visitors. When I welcome visitors, I make sure that they have a service book and are aware of the booklets and the bookstore. Make a point to find out what we do during Lent (which is just around the corner) and attend our Lenten services. If you can get a copy of Kallistos Ware's "The Orthodox Church," read that. It was an important book for me.
They do we just treat it as church history and the more state organization of it.
So you read that they didn't kiss pictures right ?
I grew up baptist and read and watched the left behind books and movies. They scared the heck out of me. I spent my younger years terrified that I was going to be left behind.
That’s pretty awful. Sorry to hear that. Oddly enough the dead will be raised first so the left behind thing couldn’t be further from the accurate interpretation given in scripture but I think it says then “we will meet the Lord in the air” (sic) but that’s more along the lines of general resurrection, If you read the Gospels carefully when Christ was resurrected (Paschal Mystery) there were others who were literally coming out of their tombs as well! Something to think about. Eternal Life is to know the one true God and Jesus whom he sent, Theoria in Greek! Orthodoxy is the ancient faith! Not like a cultural orthodoxy either Greek is actually Rum or Roman in the Middle East, Could even call it Orthodox Catholic Church, Bartholomew is our “First among equals” Ecumenical Patriarch. Just saying…
Lol the ol rapture doctrine is a lie. Baptist are the worst! My poor husband was raised Baptist as well I'm so sorry u went through that. Check out pastor Arnold Murray I don't agree with everything but I DO agree with his teaching on the end times except for the Russia part I think the west is the evil countries not Russia.
That's awful. I remember growing up in the Bible belt and being terrified of it.
Thankfully i now know it's nonsense.
Understand that was made in the 80's, where always remember, most times a movie is made, it is to make money. People believing in G-d is a group to be catered to. Where there's several different groups of significant numbers to cater to, where notice you don't see movies about Buddha, but if the population swole up with Buddhists, then there'd be those who would make Buddhists' movies.
I always knew that stuff was just writers imagination even when I was still a Baptist.
Bless you. Please send a Priest to Southern Oregon. The fields are ripe for harvest but the laborers are few. I am looking for the true Church. Pray for me, a sinner.
Orthodox churches in rogue river and talent.
Thank you for the in-depth explanation on dispensationalism, it's a topic that I am currently looking at. As a Baptist, it's something that is so commonly taught in Churches, it's something that I've never fully bought as true, it didn't sit well with me. Please pray for me on my road studying Orthodoxy, it's been an incredibly fruitful and uplifting experience so far!
As an orthodox Christian our grandmother always taught us revelations and the end times. I will be teaching my kids as well. I think it is something we should all touch on. It is getting closer and closer. Yes no one knows the hour our time but we do have the signs and things to look for from the bible. It is so important to read the bible as well. God thank you for all your wisdom and teachings.
Excellent comment... the words of Jesus regarding world events are important...he gave us signs and warned us not to be complacent.
Plz plz help me to understand.....my church teaches Russia is the enemy...I DO NOT SEE IT THAT WAY! the west has turned away from God not Russia 🤷🏻♀️ GOD BLESS U
Annatoli Pashalidis Palombo For what it is worth, my recommendation is that you stop looking for ``revelations' ' and go and READ THE TITLE of the last Bible book.
@@bagatengris1802 come on man it’s clear that’s what they meant lol
@@Tornadospeed10 I am an old man and I have walked around the block a few times. It is clear to me that many in modern times read the book to look for ``revelations' '. These people end up in simplistic lecture halls to listen to fanciful simplistic lectures. There are tens of thousands of these lecture halls, each differing in the ``revelations' ' they find interesting and even essential. If you read the book, it is about the revelation of Jesus Christ. Dragons, beasts, horses, and women are ancillary to Christ.
Each & every day could be each of us our end time. It would seem wise to live that way instead of worrying about some unknown dat in the future.
There are 4 Pentecosts. Now is the 4th Pentecost, signed by born of Iron Rod Christanity, which will be raptured by The Son of Man.
czcams.com/video/Qm1PN_BRcNg/video.html
That's all we can really extract from all this imo
I am an evangelical, I enjoyed your presentation immensely. You were very accurate in your approach to dispensationalism, and I am planning on watching more.
Very very good clear explanation. It is a worry that all these heretical groups set up roughly about the same time, took root I.e. JW's, Mormons, Christian Science and SDA's. I "left behind" dispensationalust influences in my journey in the early 2000's.
I went to a church where the pastor actually wrote a book on Revelation and Daniel. The church held a play every Christmas called Tribulation Christmas as a witnessing tool. At one point I realized that the Secret Rapture was wrong. It was a gut thing. I also had listened to Walter Martin who was "The Bible Answer Man" of radio fame dispute The Secret Rapture as a recent teaching that was accurately described here. I am now on my journey to Orthodoxy. Jesus never mentions the Secret Rapture just his Second Coming "after the tribulation of those days" in Matthew.
The blasphemous Scofield ( a crooked lawyer ) bible notes are troubling.
Greetings from Bulgarian Orthodox Church. Христос Воскресе!
If we have all sorts of knowledge but not love. Than we are just a clanging symbol.
The aggrandizement of dispensations has created a secondary effect, the greater confusion and fear of the future.
I’ve read, I’ve listened, and I’ve watched since I was young. The only way we can determine ones course, is by his/her actions. That is the battle since time began. Determining the shades of color between truth, lies, and what is real.
There are truths and then there is Truth..
Acts 16:30-31;What must I do to become saved?
This makes so much sense for a new believer (me) who has been inundated with lots of different terminologies and denominations, hence why I'm seeking out what comprises Orthodoxy. I could never grasp what dispensationalism was, and you laid it out perfectly. It seems like it was all purposefully created to confuse, the exact opposite of what I believe the Father intended. I'm still learning, but thank you, I'll be watching the rest of your presentation.
Geeetings! I have found studying the beliefs of the early church (which is what the Orthodox church has stuck to) gives you a very good foundation for weighing up the teachings that have appeared since the church split into Orthodox & Roman Catholic in 1054 and which have diverged a lot since then in many respects & then diverged again via Protestantism. It can be v confusing but better to start at the grinning & walk forwards not the other way round.
Some v useful stuff on this channel
czcams.com/video/xfftYkN0QI4/video.htmlsi=3Ggn2FclVuA_QGO3
The comparison starts at around 7:20. @ 15:30 Doctrine of dispensationalism.
@ 18:15 Dispensations - Scofield Study Bible.
As Paul has stated in his epistles we live in the Dispensation of Grace, after jesus rising from the dead and his going to heaven! For by Jesus Grace are we saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit.. Hallalujeh 🎉
Faith and works.
James 2:26
I don't have to see the whole picture to know that Jesus is LORD... and I think that when we will eventually see the whole picture many will be surprised. Thy kingdom come!
Lovely honest presentation. Pleasant to listen to, and beats the argumentations , dogmatism and the fighting of evangelical discussions. My due respect to this man of God although I don’t belong to the Orthodox Church.
So many denominations, and interpretations, how can one decide. I read revelations and there so much that I don't understand that when I hear people that are so sure of what it means and profess to know the will of God that I turn off.
Thank you Father Brown♥️🙏✝️
As an Eastern Catholic i.e. "Orthodox" under the Pope, Loved this presentation!!! I too was academically taught under it dispensationalists at Biola University. I'm so happy to have heard and watched a more academic approach to the Orthodox understanding of eschatology (End Times). Thank you for this intellectual treasure!
you can never be orthodox under the pope !
Eastern Orthodoxy isn't under a pope.
The Book of Common Prayer (Episcopalian and Anglican) also have the Nicene Creed and hold to it as well as Roman Catholics and Lutherans. I don't think you can be Christian without agreeing with this ancient Creed.
This was written by man. Not scripture.
@@dorismahoney1440 Scripture was written by men who were inspired by God. The Nicene Creed was written by men who were inspired by God. This is the case with Sacred Scripture, the Ecumenical Councils of the Church, and the lives of the Saints. No need to set up a false dichotomy.
@@dorismahoney1440 I invite you to my channel's Playlist.' so you can see just how quote" on-quote' BIBLICAL'** Reformned/ Deformed' Protestant'ism Really' is Lol.
@@dorismahoney1440 Is the Nicene Creed Wrong or a Statement of Truth?
I didn't know you had the authority to determine who's "Christian" and, who isn't.
Interesting, I am a Christian (Baptist), I am not dispensational. I concur, The Lord will come & there will be a resurrection of the dead, judgment etc. Many Protestants are into the pre-trib, dispensational view, I think because it has been so pushed in films, and books and conferences, & let's face it a lot of money $$$.
Thank you for being so kind & respectful. Often I am afraid to ask questions or discuss things because people become so fractious. Have a great day & Advent season.
70K views! Congratulations Father Brown. Thank God you were able to share your knowledge with us. May your lessons reach many more hearts.
Thank you for this teaching, it's very helpful and provides excellent clarity.
Small note at around 16:30, coming from an Evangelical background I don’t think most independent Baptists or Evangelicals would define sola scriptura that way.
“Each Christian can interpret the Bible correctly through the Holy Spirit on their own, but perhaps incompletely” is how I always figured it. In other words, a person can come to nicene creed level understanding on their own using just the words of Jesus and apostles along with the Old Testament, but a fuller understanding of scriptures is a lifelong pursuit that includes fellowship with other Christians and historical understanding.
I don’t think even the most die hard sola scriptura independent Baptists would preach that you can fully understand the Bible without knowing any history for instance. Not in my experience at least.
There are 4 Pentecosts. Now is the 4th Pentecost, signed by born of Iron Rod Christanity, which will be raptured by The Son of Man.
czcams.com/video/Qm1PN_BRcNg/video.html
As a practical matter, many fundamentalists and evangelicals believe what they've been taught by people they trust. Those people rest their beliefs on private interpretation by one person and/or others - how else to explain the differences between Lutherans, Reformed and others in the early days of the Reformation and beyond? These disagreements that resulted in such great diversity of belief and practice contradict Scripture ! St. Paul said that Scripture was not subject to private interpretation.
We Orthodox have great confidence in Holy Tradition which we define as the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church. Holy Tradition, including the Eucharist, is what St. Paul and everyone else way back was taught by the Apostles., the Seventy and others. The earliest epistle, probably 1 Thessalonians, was written around the year 55. What do you think people were hearing and doing up until then and beyond? The New Testament was a long time in being accumulated. St. Paul told people to do and believe what they were taught, true? Paul himself was once a catechumen, taught by others that knew our Lord. What was he taught? Go to an Orthodox church, see the liturgy, listen carefully and afterward ask lots of questions.
However many are idiots who do think they can ignore history and feel the truth.
Check out Fr Raniero Cantalamessas writings, your correct, Letter & Spirit is the basic term for that correlation but the Letter doesn’t only refer to the Old Law per se, conversely it may be anything that’s not taught by the Spirit but as Jesus said he has many things to teach us that we cannot bear now but the Spirit guides us into all truth, and if you want a real good read Veselin Kesich or Vladimir Lossky. More Orthodox Oriented. ✌️
The Catholic Church understanding of the end times as opposed to the evangelicalism is also a noteworthy to learn from and how it relates to our Orthodox brethren.
Thank you Sir for explaining so many things I was curious to learn about. I am a Protestant Christian with little bit of tilt towards dispensationalism but I could learn so much today. will follow your other presentations as well.
He did good job representing dispensationalism and the developments that took place in the 19th century.
The only part I would push back on at least for nuance would be his explanation of Sola scriptura as meaning individual interpretation.
Certainly appreciate the irenic expose. 💯
That's pretty much what it means. Every protestant follows their own ideas.
Th@@adjustedbrass7551 What an uninformed view! That is not the classic Lutheran view in anyway shape or form.
@dedragalyon6879 maybe not. I've met any others that follow that view though.
@@adjustedbrass7551 But that is not the Lutheran view in the least. Dispys have some of the weirdest theology around.
Lutherans shouldn't have taught that in the first place.@@dedragalyon6879
Thank you, Father
Dispensationalism is not necessarily the dominant end-time doctrine in Protestantism, although it certainly is the loudest. Many Protestants hold to amillennnialism or postmillennialism. Also, there are a growing number of preterists.
2:55 The End of Time, aka Eschatology
7:20 The Early Christians believed they were living in the End Times
11:20 Finish The Race.
12:45 "And He Will Come Again In Glory, To Judge The Living and The Dead. Whose Kingdom Shall Have No End."
16:20 Protestant Dispensationalism
30:55 OT Old Testament New Testament NT. Unity of Salvation History.
33:29 Christ is Coming Christ Came Died Rose
53:53 Orthodox Future Events
Christ Second Coming
Destroy Earthly Enemies
Gather All Humans, Judge All Humans
Put Away Satan and Demons
New Heaven and New Earth
Just found your channel , my husband in his village in Greece last week he was @ the sevice for John the Baptist beheading, As a 60`s scoop native here in Windsor Ontario , I could write alot as the rocket that never went to the moon the same date in history the beheading of John.
I'm a Seventh-Day Adventist and really enjoyed your presentation and your delivery style. I plan on watching your whole series.
How are things for you now a year later? Are you still SDA?
@@dustins382 Of course. My Bible hasn't changed.
@@dustins382 Great series, btw! ❤️❤️👍🏼👍🏼
@@Jarrodjohn2007 okay just curious, the Bible doesn't change but hearts do. It was a question of where your heart is. I was just curious.
Do you follow the lunar calendar like the OT Hebrews did?
@@dustins382 No. Col. 2.
Thank you for the lesson Fr. Thanks be to God.
Just seeing this now (25 Nov 2023) and what a gift. If only this was taught by every family (and church) so people knew and understood the origin of each eschatological view. I’m a firm believer in historicism as my view of prophesy and scripture and the corruption and deception of many Christians by the papacy as a measure to keep people from knowing who the beast system is that is spoken of throughout the Bible: the papacy.
Thank you, father, this was very educational!
Thank you for your teachings!
This is a great video! I’m not a dispensationionalist, but I recommend you read more updated sources. A good survey of of the systems is this book: I'm reading Discontinuity to Continuity: A Survey of Dispensational & Covenantal Theologies. This book is by Benjamin Markle and covers a wider spectrum, in particular traditional, revised, and progressive dispensationalism. It has changed over the years with the help of Charles Ryrie and modern theologians like Darrel Bock. I highly recommend you look into these sources and you will get a wider perspective of these views for clarity sake. Great video and keep up the good work!
You mention getting more "updated sources". I'm sure you're right in the context you're thinking of, but as a fellow Orthodox in the Bible-belt (raised Nondenom/Southern Baptist and came to Orthodoxy in adulthood), these views represent the common layman in our area. If the reformed group of Protestantism or other groups within "high church" aka Anglican, Presbyterian, Lutheran, etc group have developed dispensationalism in different areas, I think those generally haven't entered our area of Protestant lay-people as a whole.
But again, just because the local religious landscape is different, in no way implies that you're somehow wrong. As a scientist/engineer, I understand that with all things, including thought and ideas, all exists within continuum. There is always a wider view until you see the whole world, the whole sphere of possibilities and permutations of any individual thing or idea.
So yeah, I just wanted to point out the (probably) practical nature of this presentation, to inform two specific audiences about one another. He may cover more in future lectures, but clearly I am watching lecture 1 at the moment, so I wouldn't know.
Who can keep up with being tossed to and fro with every new wind of doctrine in protestanism?
Why read updated sources when you can get the truth from the apostles who were taught directly form Christ!
Thanks for posting this. I grew up in Christian Disciple of Christ church and this was not part of their theology as I remember. I would run into the end-time obsession of my baptist friends but it never really registered for me and if it did it didn't have good "spiritual" outcomes -- meaning it didn't improve my faith or knowledge of God. I did study it about 30 years ago and pretty much forgot it until looking into the current sorry state of the evangelicals morally I have had to back into it again; I can see how they got lost. That is why the are craving a messiah now. This was a great summary.
There are 4 Pentecosts. Now is the 4th Pentecost, signed by born of Iron Rod Christanity, which will be raptured by The Son of Man.
czcams.com/video/Qm1PN_BRcNg/video.html
@@cawicawi8030 Didn't have time to check the link but will watch later. Don't be disappointed if it doesn't happen anytime soon. We don't know the time.
@@eottoe2001
Ok. Jesus bless you.
Sola Scripture has nothing to do with an individual interpreting scripture but rather sees it, and I quote Wikipedia here " as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith " That is if it comes to a debate or decision on some aspect of faith hen scripture is the preeminent authority to he exclusion of tradition or other thinking.
There are 4 Pentecosts. Now is the 4th Pentecost, signed by born of Iron Rod Christanity, which will be raptured by The Son of Man.
czcams.com/video/Qm1PN_BRcNg/video.html
I was scrolling to see if anyone points that out. The entire argument is based on an incorrect base. But 👌
Dear Jack if one excludes tradition; tradition meaning the entire deposited collective spritual memory of historical Christianity passed face to face aprinticeship style ordained Bishop to ordained Bishop; example Apostle John to Ignatius of Antioch and so on until now. When one chuckes out 1900 years of the desert fathers the Neptic fathers the Saints who stood holy ground under extream cruelty for the name of Christ and HIS church. When one does that what is left? Personal pride and personal spin. There is no private interpretation.
Dear brother in Christ. It seems to me you think the scripture came down from heavens like the Muslims think the Quran did. That's not what happened. It was written, collected, and published by the Church. You can't separate the bible from the tradition. It's part of it. The infallibility is in the sanctity of the Church, by the grace of the Holy Spirit during Pentecost. Maybe I am wrong, and you think that there are other reasons for the bible being infallible. More over the real issue is not the infallibility of the bible, it's the fallibility of people interpreting the bible they own with pride and confidence and no caring if they contradict the constant teachings of our forefathers. As a result this one will teach that women can be bishops because of such verse. That one will teach that Jesus was homosexual because of another verse. Another one will pretend that there will be a Rapture. And you end up with a myriad of different chapels each preaching its own interpretation of the "sole source". A recipe for disaster.
Thanks so much. Fantastic info in here that wasn't easy to find elsewhere. Thank you!
If anyone could link me to a similar video of Preterism through the Orthodox lens it would be much appreciated.
Very thorough, thank you
I’m a Christian who believes in dispensation to an extent ( speaking of revelation portion) and I came to the video to understand the orthodox view but I came out with more understanding of different sorts of dispensation views and none of orthodox views. I believe there is also discussion as to the order of how these things happen in revelation aka post rapture tribulation vs pre rapture tribulation. There wasn’t much discussion of the Old Testament prophecy of revelation through the prophets speaking of that time such as Daniel or Isaiah. I would like a breakdown of what the Orthodox Church believes and then a discussion on what their understanding of the prophets speaking of the end times and John’s revelation means. What I received from this video is that Orthodox Church just doesn’t have strong opinions or inclinations on this time and they focus on other aspects that Jesus left the body of Christ with which in general all Christian’s focus on too. I felt a lot of time was given to showing other peoples belief instead of strictly Protestant vs Orthodox beliefs.
He made follow up videos.
i also think a lot of it grows out from the lutheran and calvinist position of grace vs works (law) as though somehow they were mutually exclusive.
I was interested to hear the Orthodox perspective of the end times, but instead just heard about how Dispy is wrong (which it is) and yet the Orthodox explanation for end times is just “He’s gonna come and it will be a new heavens and earth” without any discussion of the entire book of Revelations or the Olivet Discourse or Paul’s writings regarding the last days.
The take away seems to be that Orthodoxy is unconcerned and dis-interested in when He may return.
You clearly described the Millenium as something made up by Darby. This completely ignores the entire chapter 20 of Revelations without an explanation.
As a Catholic convert from an evangelical upbringing (we grew up staring in the microwave because we didn't expect to make it to adulthood) I appreciate something clear on Orthodox doctrine of the last days... I am sure it is very close to Catholics, and it isn't something really focused on, as you mentioned
Hits different with 2023 perspective
There’s a special blessing in reading the book of apocalypses
The book of Revelation of Christ is only about CHRIST. Presents Christ up close.
Also is a complete review of all the DOCTRINES of the entire Bible. Some books of the Bible make sense only by understanding Revelation
Also the most read and studied bible book for the Early Church
@@mariannehuston3814 How do you know that Revelation was "the most read and studied bible book for the Early Church"? It wasn't written until around the year 95 and its place in the New Testament wasn't agreed on until the fourth century. The earliest document in the NT is probably 1 Thessalonians and that wasn't written until around 55. What do you think folks were being taught until the epistles and the gospels were in circulation? Get a copy of The Shape of the Liturgy by Dom Gregory Dix for an introduction to the ancientness of the Liturgy.
@@mariannehuston3814 Nobody is supposed to "understand" the Book of the Revelation. People who claim to understand it are way off in adding their own interpretation to what St. John did not make plain. And there's a curse for "adding or subtracting" to or from it.
@@karenbartlett1307
The promise to bring the mystery of God to an end (Rev 10:7) is upon us, but few will hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.
@@PETERJOHN101 I wouldn't dispute that statement, except to say that I'm not sure they're churches. There is only one Church, and it isn't Protestant, because Protestants have no Apostolic Succession, for one reason, and they dropped the Liturgy, the Nicene Creed and the Eucharist, along with Church history, which they don't generally know about. There may be some exceptions to this, such as with the Church of England which has Apostolic Succession, according to some.
I think it might be helpful to talk about Dispensationalists, or Premillenial Dispensationalists, not Evangelicals as most Evangelicals are not dispensationalists. (But I understand why some might assume the contrary.)
Good point. I think it is possible that he may have come out the of dispensationalist camp.
Exactly, and we are just bible believers, no such thing a Protestants, Protestants believe in infants baptism, they did not fall to far from the tree
@@albusai
So your personal interpretations is not believed?
@@gritsteel3225 In the evangelical world there are a lot of interpretations of many topics, but, most of evangelicals agree with their own Church or denomination beliefs. It's not interpret what you want. It's interpret what the bible says. But here's the problem: What the bible says? Who has the truth? We need Holy Spirit's guide and the Holy Spirit don't teach different things to each other. There's only one right interpretation. We cannot interpret ourselves, God must reveal ourselves the truth. We need to study and seek the Lord with compromise.
@@Veronica-tj3hf
The fact is, if your church does not have a factual 2000yr history then your following a heaved up doctrine.
The views on the trinity and God is where the interpretations of the Bible begin to differ. ..right off the bat. Once you learn these variations the rest fall into place.
We are to know all things right.
I enjoy being able to mature each line of theological thought and see value in why God may call upon us to be this way .
Our adversary is very tricky and each young Christian mind is bettee prepared for the many different challenges he may throw upon us. 😆
We should always be preparing!
The Left Behind theology should be left behind.
God bless 😊
A lovely Holy man
Thanks for the presentation, I am an ex evangelical.
Archangel Gabriel did not lie when he said Jesus will take David’s seat
I'm so troubled father, I was raised Lutheran although my Mom's best friend was Catholic we'd go to mass one or two day a month, as my mom was Egytpian and Muslim, her becoming Lutheran I married a religious ( religious isn't a bad word in my opinion ) she really saved my life but her parents r so hard-core Prodestant, that I find it silly I pray for loved ones when they die, always have won't explain and not forever usually 4 to 6 weeks after their death in my personal prayers, I find zero doubt in my heart not that I don't have my own opion on somethings like most hardheaded human beings, that the Orthodox can't be refuted I've tried to find someone to argue that there is any reason for to place the prodestant beliefs, to even compare to the truth I hear outta Orthodoxy, dispinsationalism is what made me turn away from all evangelical beliefs when I could never take anything Luther, Calvin or a Pope says over that of Paul , Dispinsationism on my opinion is evil, and I'm trying to be nice about it, to be honest t my Father in law doesn't agree with dispensationilsn he refuts it as does my Wife's favorite Prodestant talk show host, and alot of Prodestants in general r denying it, but it seems to be taught by even Catholics, Jews, and even Liberal agnostics by default, as the political tool it was intended to be.
Great teaching and very faithful and fair.
Thank you! Just what I was looking for - a comparison of orthodox and dispensationalist beliefs in end times.
Have you published a “Part 2”? Never mind I see it!
Here is the link to the full Playlist: czcams.com/play/PLFSjdRH4Ru0z-nYzP2rLXNCrkZPk-NHst.html
Thank you
As a Preterist I see the second coming in 70 AD. Actually there are 100 time statements pointing to the imminence in First century. I am drawn to Orthodoxy but don’t know how to reconcile my Preterist views with Orthodoxy. The time statements are so frequent in scripture that it is hard to ignore once you see it. Clearly the apostles thought it was imminent. Do we ignore their biblical authority. Even Jesus said some of you standing here will not taste death until the son of man appears. You could argue he was referring to judgement on Jerusalem but I don’t find much evidence for a future return, or 3 rd coming beyond 70 AD.
Same boat. Except I wouldn't say I feel drawn to EO. But EO is coming up a lot in my circles, so I am doing my due diligence of research. I can appreciate some of their doctrine. But I have many issues as well.
I will pray for you as you research!
Need to read short article, easily findable online, titled "orthodox eschatology" by Fr. Vassilios Papavassiliou. It answers the questions you are addressing.
Daniels 70 weeks is the backbone to eschatology. How you interpret that prophecy will also shape your theology. Highly recommend “The coming Prince” by sir Robert Anderson. Probably the best written and well-researched book on the topic.
Thank you for taking the time and teaching this.
Thank you.
Thanks for sharing sir.
****The REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST, which GOD gave HIM to show His SERVANTS.... witness to the WORD of GOD, and to the TESTIMONY of JESUS CHRIST...vs3 BLESSED is he who READS and those who HEAR the WORDS of this PROPHECY, and **___KEEP___** those things which are written in it..***
WHY do so many PEOPLE *WRITE* like they CAN'T CONTROL their CAPS LOCK *KEY*??!
Raised Congregationalist (Pilgrims) and changed to Greek Orthodox like my husband when we married 39 years ago. For the past few years I’ve been researching on Jesus and the Essenes. I believe/know Jesus and John the Baptist were Essenes and schooled at Qumran where ‘The Dead Sea Scrolls’ were discovered. Go online and read what the belief of the Essenes were/are.
I don’t believe for one second these days are the end of times. However, I do have questions. Are we going through ‘all’ this for a certain reason? We have increasing weather disasters, Covid taking lives, lived through four years of corrupt politicians, etc. It seems to be happening all at once to ALL OF US. As I stated, I don’t believe it’s the ‘End Times’, but I do believe we are being given a ‘wake-up’ call. Is anyone paying attention?
I think the whole purpose of the vaguely written end times is to make you ask that and live true to values regardless of trends or pressures.
I am an Orthodox Christian, christened in Greece 1990 on the island of Crete, coming back to US, I cannot find my way, help me please!
youtube.com/@Theoria?si=Eed_4Rss-IJDZwFP ☦️🙏🏻
Oh, I have a video on the AFTER thingy in Daniel 9:24-27 by the way. It is simple math that many have ignored. All the Protestant Reformers that I am aware of maybe minus John Gill said the 'he' in verse 27 was the Messiah, not a future antichrist. John Gill changed the antecedent tot he word 'he' to 'they' or 'them' because he didn't understand a few things int he passage.
There are 4 Pentecosts. Now is the 4th Pentecost, signed by born of Iron Rod Christanity, which will be raptured by The Son of Man.
czcams.com/video/Qm1PN_BRcNg/video.html
@@cawicawi8030
4th pentecost? What scripture is that in? I follow the word not msyticism.
There is no pre-trib rapture if that is what you are getting at. That is an 1825 to 1830 doctrine that arose in Scotland based a lot off a 15 year old girl's vision and tongue utterance or prophecy. Never taught before in the church.
The Son of Man will catch away the church AT the last trumpet or what is called the SECOND FRUITS or second resurrection of the righteous (1st Thess. 4:13-18) as scripture plainly teaches. The 6th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl overlap each other if you read Revelation. They are not in sequential order as so many teach.
If people want to add to God's word and add a 2,000 year gap to 1st Thess. 4, remove the word UNTO, and ignore the word parousia (2nd advent) then I guess pre-trib would be true. I rather not add to God's Word and get the plagues he promised to those who do.
Do yourself a favor and check out the history of pre-trib and how many cults (over 100) that were birthed from it and then ask yourself is Jesus a liar? Jesus said a bad tree cannot bring forth GOOD fruit. Yet pre-trib/ dispensationalism has more bad fruit than all the heresies combined for the first 1,800 years of the church and it is only 190 years old.
Did you know many of the Chinese fell away and left Christ and betrayed their brothers and sisters in Christ when communism came into their country in the 1930's? Why? Their faith was destroyed because they were taught pre-trib and thought they would never have to go through anything. Many lost their faith in the Great Disappointment in 1844 also.
God will give you the truth if you want it and are okay with it no matter if it is NOT what you want it to be.
he woke me up 8 years ago after 30 years of being taught wrong from Bible school and in the churches on this matter.
God Bless.
@@pre-tribrapturetrueorfalse4124
The four pentacosts is explained biblicaly and historycaly in this video.
czcams.com/video/AI_1_yPiP_g/video.html
@@cawicawi8030 I don't believe Pentecost ever stopped. The Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus to be our comforter. He seals us. Is there a reason why you waNt ME to watch this video? Something I said?
I'm not Oneness pENTECOSTAL. tHEY DENY THE TRINITY AND BELIEVE IF YOU DON'T SPEAK IN TONGUES YOU ARE NOT SAVED.
This is false. "Do all speak with other tongues?" Paul was being rhetorical meaning no not everyone.
God Bless!
I really wanna become Orthodoxy, don't know what to do, I feel Prodestant teaching has gotten well.
If they celebrate Easter they are wrong Easter is not for Christians
I'm an Evangelical Protestant watching to learn about Orthodoxy. As a Protestant, no dispensationalism here. I'm "postmillenial" meaning we believe that the church will spread and rise like yeast in bread until the whole earth is converted and then Christ will return to raise the dead, conquer death and Hades and judge the quick and the dead. Heaven and earth will coalesce. The creation along with us will be glorified. And so shall we ever be! Sin and the curse removed. A people and her God!
The Bible does not say that though
Jesus already overcome death. And holds the keys to Hades.
@@zoejay I forgot about this post I made a year ago, LOL. I'm an Orthodox Christian now! ☦️
I think a lot of the problem is that people generally understand the nature of apocalyptic literature as a genre and so tend to literalise it.
Even for me as an Orthodox, after a long time exposure to Protestant content, Dispensationalism has a lot of sense. Not in its rejection of tradition, but in the definition of dispensations. God himself keeps changing the rules during the Old Testament, and this is pretty well reflected by the chart. Sure, the chart is probably incorrect, with both the beginning and the end being mistaken. There might have been pre-Innocence dispensations, like the pre-Adamic creation of angels and a possible angelic kingdom that predates Adam (referred somehow in Ezekiel 28). The end doesn't even matter too much. Certainly the beginning of Tribulations is the coming of the Antichrist, as the Rapture is always what they call Post-Trib, as the text in itself says. The millenial kingdom, whether it's 1000 years or thousands of thousands, it has a zero relevancy for us, because it will be past the test of all tests - the Tribulation. We will either be revived at the First Resurrection (Rev 20:6) or we will just be resurrected for execution at the Final Judgement - the one from the vision of St Niphon, with the river of fire. This is the biblical meaning of the word "judgement" - it means "punishment".
It's interesting how they observed these 4 elements of each dispensation. However, while all provide a test, not all provide grace. The current "Grace" period provided a complex test and a relatively unknown grace. We the Orthodox do not have the luxury to consider ourselves "saved" so for us the grace is random: we pass or not the test. I can certainly see two models here, one in which we are judged by Christ, but there is also the other very Orthodox one, where we are judged by the satanic principalities ruling the 20 stations.
But as we can hear the orchestra according their instruments before the show, so we can hear today the echoes of the Tribulation, when things will finally change. The test will be no longer the one of simple human sins and the constant fight with our human nature. Finally this rather unfair test is gonna be superseded by something simple yet extremely difficult to pass. The Mark. There's obviously no grace there for whoever fails the test, meaning all those who pass will be saved. And I can't think of a bigger echo than the vaccine, which is just a drill in advance of the real Mark.
Yrs ago studied a book with Greek Orthodox at a study of a book on Spiritual Warfare. Had never heard of or saw a book mentioning this ... & 20 stations. Is there a book explaining about this?
@@sharonmelsby7679 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_toll_house
There are 4 Pentecosts. Now is the 4th Pentecost, signed by born of Iron Rod Christanity, which will be raptured by The Son of Man.
czcams.com/video/Qm1PN_BRcNg/video.html
I disagree with your statement judgment means punishment exclusively. Like many words there's more than one definition. Jesus will have the Lambs on the right the goats on the left and they will be judged according to their works good or bad. God is a fair judge and he rewards the good as well as the bad based on their works. Another way another way to define it their actions and their deeds be it physical or mental. There are levels of reward or punishment in both Heaven and Hell.
lol
Quite interesting - I am a new convert to Orthodoxy. A catechumen. I grew up Mormon, and although Orthodox would consider Mormons dispensationalists they do not consider themselves Evangelical nor do the Evangelicals. (Mormons do not consider themselves protestant.) The dispensations in LDS belief are similar but quite different as well - names are different, timeframes are different. For instance , this is not the "dispensation of grace" at the moment but the "dispensation of the fulness of times" to them. A lot of the end times beliefs are different.
While what is presented is superficially accurate - no need for a deep dive of course - Mormons would consider the conclusion of an earthly church/people and a heavenly one incorrect. In Mormonism, there is only one - what you might call the family of Adam. That the "church" in the afterlife and the "church" on earth are the same thing. Same people. And on earth, unlike Protestant evangelicals drawing distinctions between Israel and the Church, they would believe that Israel and the Church are one and the same. n Like is observed - similar in some aspects but quite different in others.
While I am familiar with evangelical belief it is interesting to see it and compare it to what I grew up in vs Orthodox theology,
On page 54-55 on Late Great Planet Earth Hal Lindsey wrote that he and other Futurists expected Jesus to return on or before 1988. Oops. Huge red flag on the fallacies of that system.
Revelation 3:10
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
Tereo ek
tay-reh'-o
Verb
NAS Word Usage - Total: 71
1. to attend to carefully, take care of
a. to guard
b. metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is
c. to observe
d. to reserve: to undergo something
Ek
ek
Preposition
NAS Word Usage - Total: 62
1. out of, from, by, away from
harpazō
1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one' s self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
A better way to divide history is the Age of Passover from Moses to Jesus, then the Age of Pentecost from Jesus to today, and then the Age of Tabernacles soon to begin. These three follow the pattern of the Tabernacle with the Outer Court which is Passover and Justification. Then the Inner Court which is the Age of Pentecost or Sanctification, then the Holy of Holies which will be Glorification.
I’m curious if the Orthodox has a different book of revelation… because everything you’ve described as “dispensational” is described in revelation very clearly …there is a millennial reign, he has saints in heaven, and a remnant of Israel, all of these things are described. So where is the scripture that reflects what the orthodoxy believes?
Thanks for this explanation 🙏🏽
I smoke weed for Jesus Christ and my smoke lifts my prayers to heaven and only GOD and my mom and dad can judge me
Canada approved.
Quit
I now remember, why am I Assembly of God theology professor did not want to see us with a Schofield reference Bible dispensational us are in error. I am researching orthodoxy and I like 95% of what I hear anyways all the evangelicals that I knew when I was going to an assembly of god church, very few of them were dispensational how they see the end times from the tribulation on I would disagree with it. I would have to study more what the Orthodox Church on the end times in more detail anyway, thank you for your informative video. God bless you.
Wow, I'm in Marietta Georgia. I think I know where the church is actually, only a couple miles from where I live rn. Crazy!
When in the protestant church we were taught that the gentiles were grafted in by the sacrifice of Christ for all men to be saved, first to the Jew, his own people and then to the gentiles.
I'm an Evangelical, but disagree with most eschatology that is promoted these days. I think the Preterite and Historicist approaches are the most correct. To me, it's more correct to understand most of the end times stuff in the New Testament as speaking about events which happened in the first century up through Constantine's conversion
Excellent!
I still don't understand the view of orthodoxy regarding all of the scripture that evangelicals use for supporting the rapture. Such as the "time and half a time" and 3,5 years
How come whenever I hear an Orthodox Priest speak of other Christian denominations, the Orthodox church is always right, and everyone else has it wrong ?🤔.
Not necessarily - for example, about a quarter through the video he talks about how even the protestant reformers (Luther, Calvin) held the Orthodox and Roman Cathlic view of the end times. It is in the last 100-200 years that Protestanism has significantly evolved in its end-times views
ONE TRUE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC ORTHODOX CHURCH
To say that the morman cult is close to dispensationalism because they believe in a 1000 reign of Christ is a little disingenuous considering that St John describes in detail a 1000 reign of Christ. In other words the comparison to cults does not carry weight to someone who has studied the scriptures. The question is what did the Fathers say about St John's 1000 year reign teachings.
I am an optimistic AMill. And the fathers had various opinions. There is not set theological doctrine for the end times.
The dispensation definition is extreme. It’s not end times only, every verse isn’t literal we do take a literal approach but we “rightly divide the word of truth” and let it say what it says.
Being an evangelical, I can attest that God's chosen people is Israel and the Messiah came to them first, but then gentiles were invited to take part in Christ's grace as well. After the 2nd coming, we do not divide ourselves; we are all children of God!
test>fail>judgment>reward
doesn't sound right , think you need to pass the test to get good judgement?
There is also the view of the 2nd coming known as "Historic Premillennialism". This view has no rapture and simply the 2nd coming as the Orthodox teach. However, this view adds the 1000-year Millennium reign of Christ to the Orthodox Church scheme.
Papias the 2nd-century bishop of Hiriaoplolis who knew those who were taught by the apostles held this view of the Millenial reign of Christ prior to the etenal age.
``Rapture' ' people are Kataphatic rather than Apophatic. Apophasis is the main current running in four Kathleimmanic Churches.
Are the powerpoints or notes from this series available ? Great Series
I want to become orthodox. But I work Sundays, I can't change my schedule. No one will bring me in unless I get sundays off. Frustrating.
I have the same dilemma.
👍🏻 thanks ..good overview...
was there a mix up in the Christian science part of *the women* that references back to Jehovah witnesses ?
Christian Scientists are a cult! Jehovah Witnesses are also a cult which denies the resurrection and deity of Christ.
Mormons are also cultists, among other things they deny the blood atonement of Christ.Joseph Smith said that there are some things the blood of Christ will not cover.
Within your church when someone converts to orthodox Christianity I have observed ,they must deny the Protestant Reformation. This creates issue with the Protestant Church.
Father Brown, I must inquire if you have made your slides for this series available, as I find myself wanting to screenshot this video, and probably others, for the information and later study.
I just discovered your video series and I'm very excited about it. While I am going to a Protestant church, I don't understand the history and I am desperate to learn more about it. I have too many questions that Protestant pastors have not been able to fully answer, so on the advice of a Orthodox friend going through his catechism, I have been starting to look into Orthodoxy. I've been listening, when I have time, to several Orthodox videos here on CZcams. Unfortunately there are not any Orthodox churches near my home. I found one about an hour away that I hope to visit in the near future.