Why EO + ZBLL (usually) Isn’t Worth It (Cubing Rant #1)

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  • čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
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Komentáře • 172

  • @fantiscious
    @fantiscious Před 7 měsíci +52

    Planning full cross, improving f2l efficiency and lookahead 😒🙄❌🤢🤮
    Learning hundreds of algs to improve LS+LL by 0.2 seconds 🤑😍🤪🗣💯

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +9

      I know people are gonna flame me for saying that 0.2 seconds isn’t worth it but listen
      OLL and PLL is something you get every solve so you must optimize them as it makes a big difference.
      EO > ZB takes way more work and gives minimal results, if at all

  • @Aaron-rw3lv
    @Aaron-rw3lv Před 7 měsíci +34

    I learned the Canadian version called ZED B L L. Your last layer you peel the stickers and restick them with maple syrup while standing in front of a moose for motivation. The biggest mistake is most people make is they don’t stand in front of the moose and without that you really aren’t going to be that fast.

  • @yoavvishne7179
    @yoavvishne7179 Před 7 měsíci +19

    I started doing eo to zbll in some of my solves(for T and U zbll)
    Within like 2 weeks my solves with it started improving.
    I also had a chance to use it in comp recently and without predicting the zbll(did R' U' F' U F R) I got a 6.4, you just need to experiment with it and see when it's worth it.

    • @3DCubing
      @3DCubing Před 7 měsíci +2

      🐐🐐

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +5

      look, you are more than “eligible” to use it, and if it benefits you then great.
      I’m most referring to people that are barely sub10 or not even that aren’t quite saving time on it lol

    • @yoavvishne7179
      @yoavvishne7179 Před 7 měsíci +1

      ​@@BrinaSunif you do it right it can be good at any level, with good fingertricks, recognition and algs then it's completely worth it.
      If you lack one of these it becomes worse than oll pll.
      If you learn it early it becomes more useful in the future.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +2

      I’m not sure it makes sense to learn ZBLL before you have good OLL and PLL skills

    • @skellq4385
      @skellq4385 Před měsícem

      @@BrinaSunIts kinda dumb to set a an arbitrary baseline of “Only Sub-10, dont use it”. Anyone can get learning ZBLL’s into their routine as long as they’re around the intermediate level. Just 10 mins of ZBLL a day. Not much of a problem, and saves hassle later on. I fully finished ZBLL-U and T by sub 15, and now I am sub 11. ZBLL helps me a decent amount and later on I won’t have to practice recog as much.

  • @artestra
    @artestra Před 7 měsíci +7

    i agree. I've already started on T and U ZBLL but I'm not bothering with the rest. I think improving fluency and recognition has helped me out way more

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +2

      Yea, train your current ZBLLs before learning a whole ton

  • @patrickponce4838
    @patrickponce4838 Před 7 měsíci +7

    I 100% benefit from EO + ZB (For 3x3 and for OH especially) . I've been using it since 2018.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +2

      The video is more meant for people that are barely sub10 and are wasting time on it
      if you’re benefiting from it then go ahead

  • @curiousNic
    @curiousNic Před 7 měsíci +6

    It might not make you faster but it's assumed that doing EO to ZB makes you 6,9% cooler.

  • @CuberCaiden
    @CuberCaiden Před 7 měsíci +4

    Sometimes I do EO to zb to force 2 gll algs, and not diag pll’s. It’s definitely worth it for me, as I know full zbll, and I know a bunch of cases where it’s basically 1lll because you can predict, and sometimes can cancel into it. Just my opinion though
    On another thought, Bofan Uses EO to zb, and is super successful with it, getting sub 6 averages, and his zb recognition is almost instant.

  • @catchgoogle
    @catchgoogle Před 7 měsíci +5

    I think the idea of zbll being slowed more than pll in realistic solving environments is a bit misguided. wouldnt pll being more practiced be a counter argument since the fastest execution of a pll could be like twice as fast as an execution in the 30th percentile, while for zbll the algorithm is (yes) probably slower, but the time variance is spread throughout a smaller deviation (since the alg hasnt been practiced enough to have a 0.7 fastest execution, but you can consistently get a bunch of 1.1 or 1.2 executions consistently)
    other than that, good video. thanks for addressing the critiques 🙂

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      Bro is overthinking it
      Sure PLL isn’t always going to be in the 30th percentile for execution speed, but it’s always going to more reliable and still faster

  • @jasonbest1
    @jasonbest1 Před 7 měsíci +2

    OLL -> PLL is the BACKBONE. Only for bad OLLs (that don’t have good CP influencing alternative OLL algs) would you even consider EO -> ZBLL. So you’re doing OLL -> PLL at least 80% of the time. Might as well make those 80% of your solves GOOD rather than the other 20% good 🙂.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      Literally
      Also “bad” OLLs (they are still 0.6 in execution speed) are less than 20% haha, OLL is VERY optimized

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      lol

  • @joshk147
    @joshk147 Před 7 měsíci +2

    I like cubing rants

  • @Anthony_Jiang
    @Anthony_Jiang Před 7 měsíci +1

    Me when Brina forgets that Juliette uses eo to zb: 🤨

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      She’s not as good at it as tymon lol

  • @J.J.J.J.J.J.J
    @J.J.J.J.J.J.J Před 7 měsíci +2

    It's going to depend on the balance of your strengths. Your strength is TPS. Some people have strong recognition skills with weak TPS and anything that saves them turns will reduce their time.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Nope, there are super efficient OLLs that you can use instead for the “bad” OLLs (they aren’t bad)

    • @J.J.J.J.J.J.J
      @J.J.J.J.J.J.J Před 7 měsíci +1

      Also, people have different physiology and anatomy. There are algs that you may think are super easy, but not for others. What's your alg for the OLL in the video?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      R’ F’ R U’ r’ F r M’ U’ r’ F2 R
      Not worse than the cases that have related algs

    • @J.J.J.J.J.J.J
      @J.J.J.J.J.J.J Před 7 měsíci

      @@BrinaSun
      Oh ya that's super smooth! I see your point. Do you have a list of all your main OLL / PLL algs?
      I was using r' U' r U' R' U R U' R' U R r' U r and it's pretty fast for my big hands, but has a regrip at the start.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 6 měsíci

      @@J.J.J.J.J.J.Jwatch my cfop video
      Search “brina sun cfop” or go to my playlists

  • @linnapvicy9968
    @linnapvicy9968 Před 5 měsíci +1

    ZB METHOD IS ONLY THE BEST METHOD ALL OF THE TIME.

  • @ZZRULes99
    @ZZRULes99 Před 7 měsíci +3

    What about EO during cross, then ZBLL?

    • @gpl789
      @gpl789 Před 7 měsíci

      Based profile like oml

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      for 2 handed it’s going to remain slower for like at least 5 years at this rate

    • @ZZRULes99
      @ZZRULes99 Před 7 měsíci +1

      @@BrinaSun Could you please explain? EOCross can be done in 8-9 moves. EO recognition is easy. F2L is rotationless and Last Layer is manageable and ergonomic.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      And despite that, everyone who uses ZZ is slow. Even John Smith hasn’t gotten anywhere
      ZZ is limiting in terms of advanced techniques that can get you really good times, that’s why top cubers do so well with cfop

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Also you can’t plan EOcross + 2 every single time but you do it for CFOP

  • @princeteo3272
    @princeteo3272 Před 7 měsíci +3

    Cool.

  • @JamesonJamestackSwick
    @JamesonJamestackSwick Před 7 měsíci +1

    EO+ZBLL isn't bad, recognition is bad.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Depends, tymon does predict the ZBLL but I don’t think it’s always worth it

  • @miga5720
    @miga5720 Před 7 měsíci +1

    Do you recommend buying the Gan pyra enhanced, on special. Is it a great pyraminx? Krep up the great work

  • @candyi._.
    @candyi._. Před 7 měsíci +1

    Way too much work until ZBLL is ever worth it or even faster right?. It makes you slower if you force it and the practice time you put into 3x3 can be in other aspects thatd make you infinitely faster than trying to make ZBLL beneficial

  • @ensmatter
    @ensmatter Před měsícem

    As a ZZ user I'm pretty sure it can be beneficial for ZZ EOCross, what are your thoughts on that. Granted I'm not very good but a majority of people in the ZZ community who are better than me share this view.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 15 dny

      EOCross in ZZ is good, but doing EO in CFOP is bad

  • @Aladdindoescubes
    @Aladdindoescubes Před 7 měsíci

    great points, I will now get better at OLL PLL

  • @tuenguyen9849
    @tuenguyen9849 Před 7 měsíci +1

    Hello Brian. How do you compare between the Ys3m and the gan 12? I use a lot of your algs and use S move a lot. Which cube is better with S ?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      They are both really good haha

  • @dka5631
    @dka5631 Před 7 měsíci

    I remember Feliks had a EO+ZBLL in his legendary 6.54 second WR average that stood ages

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      6.54 doesn’t mean anything nowadays lol
      That’s like saying Minh Thai did corners first in his legendary 20 seconds WR therefore it’s good

    • @teriww
      @teriww Před 7 měsíci

      that 6.54 was on a weilong dude

    • @teriww
      @teriww Před 7 měsíci

      6.54 on a weilong is like as impressive as a low 5 avg on a gan cube

    • @dka5631
      @dka5631 Před 7 měsíci

      @@BrinaSun broo that 6.54 was 1 second faster than wr2. About same difference as top2 and top100. Im basically agreeing with you - only the very best can squeeze water from stone and benefit from EO+ZBLL

  • @kinkajou5036
    @kinkajou5036 Před 7 měsíci +2

    do you think once you get sub 7 with fast LL execution times and good look ahead for f2l, you should learn zbls first? Like do you think once you're at the plateau you mentioned zbls is a more important foundation
    than zbll?

    • @Mmmm1ch43l
      @Mmmm1ch43l Před 7 měsíci

      no, there is no point in learning zbls if you don't know zbll already

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      No, I said that ZBLS to ZBLL makes a bigger difference than EO to ZB
      you have to learn ZBLL first and then do ZBLS

    • @MaximilianBerkmann
      @MaximilianBerkmann Před 3 měsíci

      Its better if you start with VHLS first (it's basically 2 sets of ZBLS) and see how you can take advantage of those sets and your F2L knowledge to solve other ZBLS intuitively (of course some cases may end up subpar intuitive algs but at least you build up on that).

    • @MaximilianBerkmann
      @MaximilianBerkmann Před 3 měsíci

      ​@BrinaSun IME, learning ZBLLs first (aside from the easy ones you get from COLL algs) isn't worth it until you know full VHLS.
      I definitely agree that EO to ZB (or at least the way I see it and understood from the video being OELL to ZBLL) isn't worth it and intuitive ZBLS aren't always as fast or as efficient as doing the F2L normally then OLL+PLL.

  • @PracticallyNocturnal
    @PracticallyNocturnal Před 7 měsíci

    I absolutely agree with you EO to ZB is way to inefficient, I recently started averaging sub 10 and I'd like to learn ZBLS to ZBLL because I think its a decent investment, I know my times will be stuck for a long time though until i finish learning the 700+ algs

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Don’t learn full ZBLS, wait until it’s optimized, right now most of the algs are bad

    • @PracticallyNocturnal
      @PracticallyNocturnal Před 7 měsíci

      @@BrinaSunoh thank you! ill probably also try to optimize my plls for the time being and learn 2GLL to start since those can be applied easily

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      You should

  • @paulsebastian3987
    @paulsebastian3987 Před 7 měsíci

    Enjoy your videos ,I was thinking about the zbll ,but I'm only a beginner right now ,and am using 2 look oll and pll right ,but am working on it thanks

  • @paramoecium9308
    @paramoecium9308 Před 7 měsíci +1

    I average 17 and I’m learning U zbll. I’ve gotten through two coll subsets. 😁

  • @reecypeecy9909
    @reecypeecy9909 Před 7 měsíci

    I wonder when it’s gonna become popular to do COLL but for all 58 OLL cases. Then 1LLL will be a thing. I’m only halfway kidding

  • @LiamHighducheck
    @LiamHighducheck Před 7 měsíci

    Do you think full ZBLS is worth it? Will there be certain really bad cases/sets where it’s not worth using? Should/do you have to learn ZBLS for extra/all slots, or get good at resolving the skill issue of ending on a less favourable slot? How do you feel about 1LLL (disregarding time to learn)? How do you feel about different ZBLL recog systems?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Right now it’s not optimized but it will be worth it
      1LLL will probably never be worth it

  • @godzillafirefox923
    @godzillafirefox923 Před 7 měsíci +1

    Is OLS(oll and last slot) and PLL better than eo+zbll, i know it is worse than zbls and zbll...

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      that is better than eo + zb

  • @goodled
    @goodled Před 7 měsíci

    Bro said ‘I’m finna learn full ZB’ then weeks later
    :
    Gets like that 😂

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      I mean I did learn full U in 2 weeks which 72 algs

  • @mr_mcgee1
    @mr_mcgee1 Před 7 měsíci

    I didn’t even know this was a debate I thought everyone knew that ZBLS +ZBLL was faster lol

  • @jonas-by5uc
    @jonas-by5uc Před 7 měsíci

    small unrelated questions, for the F2L on the left, do you just mirror what you do on the right or do you have optimized algs for the left side ?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      I mirror them
      They are optimized algs for the left side but actually I mirror them to the right side sometimes too

  • @AVCuber
    @AVCuber Před 7 měsíci +2

    What about juliette?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      She’s not that good at 2H lol more of an OH person

    • @AVCuber
      @AVCuber Před 7 měsíci

      @@BrinaSun well i do agree about that but that was a more a question about do you think she benifits of it?

  • @jettyung2389
    @jettyung2389 Před 7 měsíci

    9:16 lmao. So true

  • @thatpyraguy
    @thatpyraguy Před 7 měsíci

    Not in the topic of the video, but how do you improve f2l efficiency and tps while looking ahead?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +2

      if you want to improve your f2l efficiently you need to learn to pause intentionally in order to remember a shorter solution
      If you try to never pause you will never be able to be efficient

  • @Falitate
    @Falitate Před 7 měsíci

    But do you think full ZBLS into full ZB is good/faster/worth it? What are your thoughts on it?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      one day it will be but right now a big chunk of ZBLS is not optimized

  • @6whage6dh36J
    @6whage6dh36J Před 7 měsíci

    hey man,please tell me what cube you would choose and why - tornado v3 flagship or ys3m ball core uv?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      Ys3m

    • @6whage6dh36J
      @6whage6dh36J Před 7 měsíci

      @@BrinaSun why tho?I have the tv2 and i like it but i tend to overshoot and corner cutting isn't great.Just wanna know why would you recommend the ys3m over the tv3.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      Ys3m can turn faster and also corner cuts better

    • @6whage6dh36J
      @6whage6dh36J Před 7 měsíci

      thanks@@BrinaSun

    • @6whage6dh36J
      @6whage6dh36J Před 7 měsíci

      sorry for bothering u,how does it comparee to the rs3m v5 ball uv?(the ys3m)

  • @Josiah_Vidzro
    @Josiah_Vidzro Před 7 měsíci

    I got a 6.63 in class
    Retried and got a 5.5
    Generated by CubeTime.
    6.63: R2 F' D2 L2 R2 B2 F L D' R' D B2 L' D F R' B2 F2

  • @junnosuke_takahashi
    @junnosuke_takahashi Před 7 měsíci

    what about for the something like sune fruf OLL with diag cp, surely eo > zb is better for this case? the alg preserves a lot of stuff and solves the recog problem, also 2glls are fast

    • @douglaschaplow4467
      @douglaschaplow4467 Před 7 měsíci +1

      Often I choose whether to do OLL or EO to ZB depending on the CP. That’s a good example, and also the one that Brian showed. I’ll do F sexy F’ only if it’s diag CP.

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Nah, DIAG CP MEANS YOU GET AN EPLL BRUH
      sune fruruf solves the diag cp lol (also it’s a super fast alg)
      Unless you mean solved CP which means sune fruruf gives a diag haha

    • @douglaschaplow4467
      @douglaschaplow4467 Před 7 měsíci +1

      I’m pretty sure that’s what he meant (at least that’s what I meant.) I do the 2-edge alg for that, the mirror, and the similar T cases only if it gives 2gll.

    • @junnosuke_takahashi
      @junnosuke_takahashi Před 7 měsíci

      yeah I meant solved CP mb@@BrinaSun

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci +1

      I would just do the OLLCP lol
      I suppose you could mirror double sledge double sexy

  • @NoldK932
    @NoldK932 Před 7 měsíci +1

    Is ZBLS to COLL then PLL are worth to learn for sub 11?

    • @Luna77543
      @Luna77543 Před 7 měsíci +3

      No

    • @NoldK932
      @NoldK932 Před 7 měsíci

      @@Luna77543 is there advantage for the long term? Or just stick with the standards? Thank you:)

    • @Luna77543
      @Luna77543 Před 7 měsíci +2

      @@NoldK932 most COLL isn’t worth it in general, and without a large chunk of ZBLL, ZBLS isn’t worth learning

    • @NoldK932
      @NoldK932 Před 7 měsíci

      @@Luna77543 I got it, thank you :)

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Luna is right

  • @coconutcubes5750
    @coconutcubes5750 Před 7 měsíci +2

    Just do 1LLL. End of discussion

  • @martinshoosterman
    @martinshoosterman Před 7 měsíci

    And then theres that one guy who learned 1LLL, but has about a 10 second average. (Forgot his name, but people sre going to do what they want)

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      you can do whatever you want, it’s just not always helpful

    • @MaximilianBerkmann
      @MaximilianBerkmann Před 3 měsíci

      Daniel Rose-Levine (DRL)?

  • @candyi._.
    @candyi._. Před 7 měsíci

    Yup

  • @canyouisnt6175
    @canyouisnt6175 Před 7 měsíci

    brina color neutral when

  • @x58so
    @x58so Před 7 měsíci

    so you can make points about eols cuz I use it some of the time

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Don’t do it unless it’s just a sledge

  • @shahar78985
    @shahar78985 Před 7 měsíci

    When would you recommend learning zbll?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      When you’re sub8

    • @shahar78985
      @shahar78985 Před 7 měsíci

      @@BrinaSun is it worth it to learn a few cases before?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      The COLLs and the easy cases sure

    • @shahar78985
      @shahar78985 Před 7 měsíci

      @@BrinaSun im learning the 2gll u set because it's really easy and then i will probably stop learning zbs

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Ok

  • @BanglaCube
    @BanglaCube Před 7 měsíci +5

    Fast

  • @_cablewastaken
    @_cablewastaken Před 7 měsíci

    my ass knowing like only 100 zblls:

  • @user-dq2tv5xr4w
    @user-dq2tv5xr4w Před 7 měsíci

    Do you know me?

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Yes you are TAEHOON YOO

  • @kaszamix8697
    @kaszamix8697 Před 7 měsíci

    Roasting tymon and kyle part 1

  • @Anthony_Jiang
    @Anthony_Jiang Před 7 měsíci

    Me when oh 🤚

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      You’re the only one

  • @gurizao1
    @gurizao1 Před 7 měsíci +8

    This comment was made at 3am 😈😈😈😈😈😈

  • @jtccuber5827
    @jtccuber5827 Před 7 měsíci

    hey can u plz tell me your age

  • @miga5720
    @miga5720 Před 7 měsíci

    Hallo, it is my birthday on the 22th of jan and i am turning 14, and i wanted to ask if you can give me a birthday shoutout. And funny story, today i was at a restaurant, and they said that i can get free icecream, nut it never came😭

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      Ok

    • @BrinaSun
      @BrinaSun  Před 7 měsíci

      What’s your time zone? Is it your birthday yet?

  • @JosephBurnett937
    @JosephBurnett937 Před 7 měsíci +1

    pog