Cleveland's Light Rail is ALSO Very Weird
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Empty light rail through the woods does make for a cool ride, though.
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In Cleveland the light and heavy rail are collectively known as "the rapid," which is why every stop is referred to as a "Rapid Station."
that's a cool colloquialism, I was definitely confused ty for sharing this
The Shaker Rapid!
Still seems like... kinda stupid ngl? Like also saying station after the stop name. Like whats stopping them from just saying "Next station Tower city" or "Next station Schafer Square" for example. Much simpler, nicer, and easier to understand for passengers. You would only say stuff like Station or Rapid station at the end of the name if you're coming from another mode of travel like a bus, at least thats the case in a more sensible city.
@@drdewott9154 Most passengers are Clevelanders, and they understand what a Rapid Station is. That's like saying you can't say Subway Station in New York, or Metro Station in Washington.
@@LUNITUNZBackupright but the announcements in New York don’t say “Times Square Subway Station” because it’s obvious and unnecessary information
Yeah the rolling stock you rode on the Green and Blue Lines were built by Breda Costruzioni Ferroviarie in 1980, while the MBTA Type 8s were built between 1998 and 2007. And as mentioned, Shaker Heights was designed to be a streetcar suburb around those lines. The Blue Line opened in 1920, while the Green Line opened in 1913. The Van Sweringen brothers built the Terminal Tower at Tower City (designed by Graham, Anderson, Probst & White; a Chicago firm that was the successor to Daniel Burnham's firm) as a plan to use it as the hub for all of Cleveland. They are the ones that built the lines to Shaker Heights as they owned Shaker Heights and used it as a development scheme (with restrictive covenants and guidelines called Shaker Standards; that also unfortunately barred African-Americans). The plan was to build more streetcar suburbs and connect them to the tower, run all long-distance trains there as well (they owned a railroad as well, the Nickel Plate Road, they only wanted it so they could use its route to the new terminal), and the local streetcars. However, their plan came crashing down after the stock market crashed in 1929. Shaker Heights took over the struggling lines in 1944, and the GCRTA took over in 1975. Besides the Nickel Plate Road, New York Central, B&O, and the Erie Railroad all used it, though the Erie Railroad initially didn't. And yeah, they've built new TOD at Warrensville-Van Aken, adjusting the road layout and redeveloping a strip mall and parking lots into mixed-used residential, creating a town center with Phase 1 opening by 2019. It also included a Blue Line extension, but that idea was scrapped for more development. They tried another TOD project at Lee-Van Aken, but Shaker Heights cut back on a better plan from 2000 in an underwhelming plan released in 2007 with condos (instead of mixed-use retail) and less infill because of "concerns" over parking, while Warrensville-Van Aken gave developers a blank slate.
Terminal Tower was the second-tallest building in the world when it was completed in 1927 and opened in 1930, it remained the tallest building in the world outside of NYC until the completion of the main building of Moscow State University in Moscow in 1953 and stood as the tallest building in North America outside of New York City from its completion in 1927 until 1964 when Prudential Center in Boston defeated it. It remained the tallest in Ohio until the Key Tower was completed in 1991. Besides Terminal Tower, the Graham, Anderson, Probst & White firm also worked on Philly's Suburban Station, Chicago's Field Museum of Natural History, Chicago's Merchandise Mart, Philly's 30th Street Station, Chicago's Wrigley Building, Chicago's Shedd Aquarium, and finished Chicago Union Station in 1925 after Daniel Burnham passed in 1912. Tower City was never particularly popular with the railroads. It required deviating from the quicker route along Lake Erie. As the city would not allow trains to operate under steam power near the downtown area, trains were forced to switch from steam to electric power at a suburban rail yard when heading inbound and then reverse on the way out at another yard. As a result, some lines began to bypass the station entirely, heading along the lake route, and some trains stopped serving the city altogether (like New York Central's Lake Shore Limited and the New England States).
I rode the rapid fairly regularly when I lived in Cleveland. There was so much hype about the Waterfront Line and now it’s hardly ever open. Seeing what has become of Tower City saddens me as well. I used to do my Christmas shopping there!
Elder Millennial who grew up a couple miles from the Green Rd station here! Took the Green Line countless times in the 80's and 90's, usually heading downtown for Guardians and Cavs games. Miss the old white & orange color scheme on the Rapid. There used to be blue and green flippy/roll-y cards with "Public Square", "Green Road", and "Van Aken" for the wayfinding indicators where the digital lines are now. I have vivid memories of that Green Road lot being completely full of parked cars and two or even three sets of the train cars joined together to make a much longer consist. Standing room only onboard. Tower City Center used to be bustling; my family once rode the Rapid to that mall just to wander around on Black Friday sometime in the late 90s. The most jam-packed I've ever seen the huge underground Tower City station was waiting to return after a Dave Matthews Band concert. And even when it first opened, we took the Waterfront Line just to try it out and were like, "What? Why?" Having visited a few times more recently as an adult, I was struck but how short the ride is (25 min or so?) from Green Road to Public Square compared to how long it felt as a kid. Another fun childhood memory is running around in the park area by that Belvoir stop in the summer and putting pennies on the track for the train to crush. Glad you got around to riding my home line, Miles. As you can see, it brings back memories. I'm excited for the new rolling stock, and will be sad but will toast the Bredas when they're finally retired.
This was a great read, thank you!
love how every time you go to cleveland you’re ever so slightly trying to 100% the system but unable to due to a bit (or a lot) of it not being open
I can't remember how many years it's been since every station was open at the same time
The beeps the train makes are perfect. That's exactly what something that looks like that should sound like
cold, digital, electric, beep boop.
More Cleveland facts: The firm that designed that concert hall at 15:38 was Walker and Weeks who also worked on Indianapolis's World War Memorial, Cleveland Public Library, Cleveland's since demolished Municipal Stadium, and Cleveland's Hope Memorial Bridge (the bridge's Guardians of Traffic is where the name for the Cleveland Guardians came from). Public Square by Tower City was part of the Connecticut Land Company's (never forget the tale of Long Connecticut and CT's true destiny) original plan for the city, which were overseen by Moses Cleaveland in the 1790s. Cleveland was modelled after New England, and the square is signature of the layout for early New England towns. In 1879, it became the first street in the world to be lit with electric streetlights, thanks to arc lamps designed by Cleveland native Charles F. Brush! The Cuyahoga River once caught on fire at least FOURTEEN times! When it did in 1969, it helped spur the American environmental movement, resulting in amendments extending the Clean Water Act, Great Lakes Water Quality Agreement, and the creation of the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency (OEPA). Because of the incredible effort, the American Rivers conservation association listed it as their River of the Year in 2019!
Along with being the first city with electrified public spaces, Cleveland has had lots of other interesting firsts, too! These have included the opening of the first indoor shopping mall (The Arcade) in 1890, the first automobile sale in the US in 1898; and the first blood transfusion in 1905. In 1967, Cleveland was also the first major US city to elect an African-American mayor when it elected Carl B. Stokes. While the character of Superman comes from another planet, the concept of the Man of Steel comes right from Cleveland, Ohio. Co-creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster are from the city, and the story goes that Superman was created at Siegel’s house at 10622 Kimberly Ave. in the early 1930s. Cleveland didn’t invent rock music, but back in the 1950s, the term “rock and roll” was coined by local disc jockey Alan Freed on his Moondog Rock and Roll Radio Hour. The very first rock concert, the “Moondog Coronation Ball,” was held in Cleveland in 1952! This is why Cleveland was selected as the location of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
So nostalgic! I never rode the individual blue and green lines, only the red and waterfront lines when I was growing up in cleveland. Those loud announcements on the trains threw me back so much xD shame theres not more TOD on the lines, since having such an established network that goes to the airport to downtown is such an asset! Poor cleveland...
Btw Stations on the RTA are starting to have real time tracking. Thanks to Clevelanders for Public Transit for pressing them on this. You can actually see one at 12:02
Oh, that's great! I guess we visited during a transition period!
I took Amtrak to and from Cleveland for the eclipse. I can confirm that Miles is correct. Cleveland’s current Amshack is terrible.
As a Shaker Heights resident--you see the Architecture Review Board as no-fun busybodies until you look at other places and realize "oh, there is a point, things look *nice* here" and not in a subdivision HOA sense. Things look evenly proportioned and fit together well with a nice amount of variation. No McMansions. Then you get into Beachwood and they're slapping those gaudy monstrosities down as infill amidst modest midcentury ranches and 70s splits.
Unfortunately development trends got the better of the poor light rail system. Back in the day, the people in the big houses on the boulevards went downtown to work, and the household staff went up the hill to clean the houses. Now everything's out in the exurbs or sucked dry by private equity so the transit system's death spiral only continues.
Also, the cloth seats are like totally grodular, dude. We're going back to padded vinyl, thank the gods.
Eh, based on our walk in Shaker Heights, the architecture didn't really do it for me, but I don't doubt that it's worse elsewhere!
@@MilesinTransit Your walk was primarily in the 1950's era development of the city, most of the area west of Warrensville was built in the 20's and is more interesting.
The Green line run in the median of Shaker Blvd, for the first few stops the median is very wide and forested. The for most of its lenght in Shaker Heights the road is lined with very large homes on large lots and the surrounding neighborhood has only slightly smaller lots with several large city parks, which explains why there is very little ridership on that line outside of the park-n-ride.
An interesting note RTA is planning to replace trains on all 3 lines with the same high floor light rail vehicle, blurring the line between the "heavy" rail Red line and the "light" rail Blue and Green lines.
The waterfront line (some call it the ghost train) hasn't run regularly in years. You need to be in Cleveland where there is a big event to ride that. It was peak RTA weirdness when it used to run regularly (and completely empty)
Weren't they reopening it last Fall? Or is it open now after a long closure but now used only for special events?
@@jonw999999 They ran it for Browns games in the fall. Supposedly it will be fully back at some point
3:50 hawker siddley speaking down from the heavens 😭
Pre-Covid, Green Road and West Green... the P-n-R lot there was PACKED back then. The reason West Green exists was that fact, that the Green Road P-n-R lot was always packed.
There used to be rollsigns before the led strips were installed, these cars being made in the early to mid 80's, replacement parts for those rollsigns possibly are hard to find or pricey these days.
Didn't know they even had a light rail so thanks for the info!
14:48 in a few years you might actually get your own BRT station: Miles Rd
The blue and green line alignment reminds me a lot of some of the old trolley systems we had here in North Carolina. What happened around here was the trolley company contracted with the land developers to sell land (and sometimes build houses) so they could expand their trolley network. Usually huge plots of land with huge houses that were served by the "exclusive" trolleys. Cleveland kind of has that same vibe in the modern day. Really weird the city hasn't pushed for denser development along the line though, or at least moved at some point to zone for transit oriented development. Seems to be really holding back what could be a decent system.
Cleveland cut out the middleman. The Van Sweringen brothers built both the fancy houses and the trolley line to downtown. They’re also responsible for Cleveland Union Terminal and the Terminal Tower skyscraper above it, the complex now known as Tower City.
12:02 Amshack is the greatest joke on the channel so far and it’s completely unappreciated
What‘s the joke? The name “Amshack” is not Miles’ invention. It’s a common term
Yeah, I wish I could claim it but its lineage goes way back before me, it's just what people call those types of Amtrak stations!
@@MilesinTransit day ruined
hi miles! i did a very similar route on my rta speedrun back in february to cover the blue and green lines, except that “road widening project” closed all of the bus stops around WARRENSVILLE-SHAKER RAPID STATION with no warning at all, so i ended up missing my connection when the bus dropped me off much farther north than where i wanted to be on an already tight connection. i plan on redoing the speedrun in early august with the waterfront line this time. also, as a bit of a tip, there’s generally less construction in the winter so more of the system is open. have a nice day!
ive just realized how long this is sorry about that
Love that back of the bus backpack cubby seat. Unless it's a busy route where it might fill up because then you risk being stuck staring at the person in front of you the whole trip. My seating choices are always based on how to most comfortably avoid eye contact
Thanks Miles and friend for the rides and commentary!
Fun facts:
1. Back when I lived in Cleveland, the Blue and Green Lines had an express zone (Tower City to Shaker Square, $1.00) and a local zone (85 cents).
2. The trains ran on the left side from Tower City to E. 55th and then switched to the right side.
Oh wow, even more crazy bespoke stuff, that's fantastic! Thanks so much for the donation!
I think it's funny that the one thing you like about the RTA is the main thing I hate about it (the extremely fluffy, germ-infested cushions)
As a native who's been on RTA for the most of my life, I hate those seats with a passion. I'll gladly take solid seats any day of the week.
This was fucking awesome!! I went to school at John Carroll which is right by the green road station. The RTA is not in the right neighborhoods. the people that are in walking distance are all people with cars that look down on the public transit (at least on the ones out of downtown) really sick that this is the first time I've watched a video and been like I know all of this area!!! I hope you enjoyed your time in Cleveland!
my buddy also lived in the van aken apartments. that strip area doesn't get crazy tractions but they host a lot of events and that gets the place going. very upscale little area to be right by the rapid
The reason why the Green Line has nothing around it at the eastern end is that its in a giant median for Shaker Blvd and its set aside as a sort of park area. This is was probably by design as Shaker Heights was a planned community by the streetcar/railroad tycoons the Van Swearengin brothers.
Nothing against the median, but there's nothing outside the median either!
@@MilesinTransit Rta is such a dank system… sometimes I feel like it has been created and managed by people with only half a brain 😂😂😂
pretty sure it was also not supposed to end there
@@andrew23456able Yea it was originally supposed to end in Gates Mills I think... which is like the one of the least dense eastern suburbs today. Would have been a complete waste
@@MilesinTransit The Green line is surrounded by large lot suburban development, though most was built in the 20's or 50's. Very little chance that corridor will ever be upzoned. Shaker Heights is very proud of their "heritage" and has very restrictive zoning and use ordnances. That fact that the Van Aken mixed use development exists is amazing.
Whoa, you just get through talking about architecture, and at 5:37, you've got a Tudor next to a super modern I-don't-know-what?
This reminds me of when I used to ride the trolleybuses in Watertown - from Harvard Square to Watertown, you pay when you exit; from Watertown to Harvard, you pay when you enter.
One of these days I'd love to visit Cleveland just to listen to the Cleveland Orchestra.
The Cleveland Orchestra is well worth the visit. Also, assuming you're seeing them in their main venue, you're right near the Cleveland Art Museum which is well worth stopping to see. That area is basically a nice cultural district.
@@thexalon IIRC, Severance Hall where the orchestra plays was used in the movie The Saint. The man who built it, built a Mansion in Cleveland heights. That was torn down in the early 60's to make a mall. Severance mall. Which is no longer an indoor mall. Basically a Home Depot and a grocery store now. There is a marble fountain that was moved across the property. It was a massive piece of land for one mansion. All of this leads back to when I was a kid cutting through the woods and found the stables. I had no idea what it was. I guessed that it was stables, but 2 stories and such a large building, I didn't even know about the mansion. It was such a neat place. One day I started looking online to see if I could solve the mystery. I found a site with a few pics of the estate, Severance the man, outside of severance hall. It was a neat, if short, rabbit hole. clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/471
I used to take the Waterfront Line to school every day when I was in the 9th grade. Unfortuantely, those trains only terminate at Tower City nowadays. The Waterfront Line only runs primarily for Browns and Cavs game events.
Tower City Center is actually not the only RTA station with turnstiles! The North Coast Station on the Waterfront Line has turnstiles, but obviously they are not operational (Not sure if they reactivate them during Browns games / events).
Also, RTA recently got a grant to install several new mini-highs on the Blue Line to make the system more accessible.
When I visited Van Aken a couple weeks ago, it was actually quite busy and a section of one of the streets was pedestrianized with bollards. It's coming along although the big apartments are not quite done.
That Cummings hat is brilliant
Such a weird, stressful, semi depressive, interesting train ride. Thank you lol
You know a transit system is bleak when we don't even get a "now that's a fun fact"
I have family in Cleveland so I’d visit them from NYC and they lived near green road and I’d love taking the RTA to tower city taking Amtrak from NYP to Cleveland was also fun
I remember before they tore it down to build the new Van Aken market hall, which has very good food. It used to be a Starbucks right there at the end of the lines and a huge bus turnaround. Also next time you don't have to walk to Green Rd. You can take the 14 Chargin-Lander to Richmond Rd. and catch the 94 E.222-Lakeshore or 34 E.222-Lakeshore. But just not on Saturday or Sunday because the 94 doesn't go to Tri-C East, it ends at Green Rd. Rapid and the 34 is Monday-Friday only.
Next time you're at Van Aken Market Hall be sure to stop at Banter or Lox, Stock & brisket. The Upper EastSider brisket sandwich is amazing, pricy but no regrets and their potato salad is to die for... And Banter has poutine bowls. It's a mess right now because they're tearing up the bus area of Van Aken Rapid Station. And they finally installed the app readers on the Blue/Green Line trains. At least the new trains arrive in 2 years, but I think they are just for the Red Line for the time being, I believe they said the Blue/Green Line need rebuilt before the trains can be used on them. I know the Red Line platforms have to be extended also. Starting tomorrow (July 7) the Blue/Green Lines will be shuttles for a month. Just one shuttle 67R running every half hour from Tower City, it does the Blue Line portion to Van Aken, then goes up Warrensville Rd to Shaker Blvd and does the last few stops of the Green Line and ends at Green Rd. So The Green Line because of the extra low ridership is NOT covered from Shaker Square to Warrensville.
This was a Saturday, but also we just wanted to walk since it was a nice day! Interesting to hear about the shuttle operation and how the Green Line totally gets shafted...
You get everywhere miles.
It's because we get Miles ❤
I love how these cars have the ding-dong announcement sound of the old Boston orange line 1200s combined with the chopper traction motors of the old LA Nippon Sharyo P865/2020 cars
man, if you hate the green line, you’ll hate STL’s red line on the Illinois side
He's used to light-rail through farmland, he did that in Denmark!
The Illinois part of the STL light rail is pretty annoying, but the overall system there is fantastic!
It will be very interesting to see how the RTA is once the Siemens S200s start coming
You should do Denver's or Phoenix's next
I'm originally from the Cleveland area. I remember taking the rapid from Lakewood to Tower City to go to work. Then I'd take a bus to Brooklyn.
This had ridership and express services before the highways. Highways killed the city and region to the sunbelt
Hope you tried Mitchell's ice cream
These cars really remind me of the old U2-Triebwagen I grew up with in Frankfurt. Nice to see them still in action after all these years.
I took all the lines when I was there for the eclipse.
Great vid as usual, but gotta admit I'm LOL'ing over the Cummins ski cap. Do Miles and his bros have a secret double life of rolling coal?
Cummins makes the engines in the Siemens locomotives for Amtrak and Brightline.
@@kitchin2 Yes I know LOL. Maybe the hipsters wearing trucker hats thing never died? But when I've seen a Cummins cap it's usually in rural America on a guy who, surprise, drives a diesel truck.
Shaker Heights used to have PCCs well into the 70s 👀
2:32 I’m fairly certain that UTA does this too with the SD-100/160 for the Blue Line
And it doesn’t even say the full thing, it’s like “BLU-DRAPER”, though also did that with the rolling screens for Green (S70) for some time (“GRN-AIRPORT”)
Ah the return rapid revenge video! I've never rode the blue or green line, but they seem less interesting than the red. I thought the red line at least went into the very desirable suburb of Lakewood, but I guess not by much with only the W. 117th stop. Several of my cousins all under 40 are all now living in Lakewood since it is one of the few walk able areas. As far as the housing comment, I have relatives who are getting priced out of neighborhoods as renters; I think more housing is needed in places that could easily absorb the density and for younger-ish individuals. The really desirable locations are definitely pricing people out of them.
Blue and Green are also really interesting, especially Green - I think they're worth a ride!
I lived car-free in Lakewood for a couple of years, and it was quite doable thanks to the 55 bus route (now the alleged BRT line out that way). But it's also become a very popular area, and that's increased rent somewhat.
Always found these midwest US systems (Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, etc.) fascinating where they still had fairly decent ridership into the 70s, 80s, even 90s with significant use by middle class and even some upper class. Changing demographics (car centric Boomers) and suburbanization especially with office jobs away from downtown (plus loss of downtown shopping) decimated these systems to minimal ridership and almost exclusively very poor.
There was an older population (born 1900s-1920s) that in the 1970s & 1980s remembered the old streetcar systems of their youth and had riding transit from these Shaker Heights-like areas to office jobs downtown in some Beaux Arts or Art Deco office tower while shopping at the few remaining downtown department stores as part of their routine for decades. I understand when they shut the Rapid lines downtown in the late 70s/early 80s to rebuild the system a lot of ridership was lost and never recovered since people changed their travel habits and routines during the shutdown.
Cleveland don't have the population for full 8 car trains.
It’s bizarre how there are still two rail lines that go to a low density suburb with enough wealth to not want/need to take public transit into the city. Yet Lakewood on the west side which is the most densely populated city in Ohio has a singular rail station serving the very southeast corner of Lakewood. At some point there has to be a shift towards serving the population that would actually use public transit.
Agree, The rail lines in Cleveland only exist because of history and which lines were maintained during the population loss of the city and general removal of streetcars in America.
I imagine by day's end, that Gillig bar will be full of empty cans all the way across.
Before the ubiquitous ownership of cars these were a brilliant way for suburbanites to get into their city jobs and entertainments. Reminds me a bit of "Meet Me in St. Louis." It's just too bad about the freaking automobiles!
Cleveland was also an early adopter of urban highways, as the innerbelt and shoreway predate the interstate highway system
definitely rivals baltimore for the most poorly utilized light rail in the USA
Baltimore gets >four times the ridership!
@@MilesinTransit okay ultra rare baltimore transit W lets gooo
Lots of you are idiots...the rich people lived in these areas back in the day and the rapids ran thru these areas....it's how it's always been
Tide light rail
So you're telling me Cleveland still have those infamous 'Charlie can't get off the MTA' fare rules?
Also another case of Ohio squandering its potential again?
Would be a decent system with more TOD+density+frequency+signage that don't suck and less convoluted fare rules+carbrain planning. Well of course the more fundamental issue is-Cleveland needs to actually be an attractive place to work & live in...
fun times in Cleveland some more!!!!
at least we're not detroit!
Come on down to Cleveland town,everyone!
There’s was transfer ramp back in the days
It's sad to see rail infrastructure that barely functions as an avg bus line. Total ridership for the 2 light rail lines is an avg of 3200/day combined. There are at least 7 bus lines in Cleveland that far exceed light rail daily ridership, w some lines having twice the ridership. The light rail lines are serving the wrong corridors. After the Health Line, the Broadway corridor is the city's busiest at about 8,000 riders/day.
This is so wild to watch. I just started taking the red line and the health line for work and it’s so weird to watch you review it on TV.
I have a Red Line video too!
dang, these get less service then Philly's 101 and 102 routes.
You were SO close to me I live about 5 minutes from the green rd rapid😊
5/10, no Tower City vending machine review
Also at this point we just need to have as many foamers as possible descend upon Cleveland when the Waterfront Line fully re-opens so we can all collectively complete the system
Haha, truly!
@@MilesinTransit Ended up parking in the garage next to the Waterfront Line to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame over the weekend and regaled my husband about how this line exists but since it's not football season we couldn't use it, or the parking lots for that matter. It was weird.
Remembering that Cleveland has scooters, we have the makings of a Great Race™️: start at the division point of the Blue and Green lines, send a scooter rider off towards the terminus of the Blue just after a Blue service departs, see if their opponent can catch up with the scooter using the next Blue service \m/
Brilliant video sir!
Thanks!
This former Clevelander thought that all cities had car-centric train systems like the GCRTA Rapid. (West Side Red Line is especially car-centric as you get nearer the airport.)
Love this wacky system
Come to San Diego and review our trolley system. It’s the only one I have experienced but it seems pretty good
I think it's the highest ridership system in the country now!
@@MilesinTransit it even beats los angeles???
@@shreychaudhary4477 It does! By about 2 million per year, on 30 fewer miles of track.
That tower city mall is really weird and also why is it so hard to exit from
@05:36 this gray, red and white house is interesting.
Amshack? I'm dead hahaha.
Trying to eminent-domain historic houses on Shaker Boulevard? Good luck.
Also the red line had real time tracking but they took it down + the light rail trains have scanners for the phones
I just found out the Manhattan Mall is pretty much dead aside from some glasses store… it’s nuts as the station under it has so much service (BDFMNQRW and the PATH terminus!)
MM has been dead since 2004. You have Macys across the street
Not since 2004, since 2020, there was a once busy JCPenney store there that opened in 2007 but closed in 2020!
I remember going to the Toys R Us Express store in that mall many times while killing time waiting for the next Ronkonkoma Branch train after getting off the PATH. Thought it was cool the JCPenney actually had an entrance right next to the PATH turnstiles.
Unfortunately all urban malls in the US are dead... COVID hit them hard
@@jonw999999 I wouldn’t say every! I still see people shopping at Newport Centre in Jersey City. Newport remains the busiest HBLR station, people in Hudson County take many jitneys there, lot of new stuff has opened there, and many New Yorkers take the PATH to Newport to shop there because Newport participates in NJ’s Urban Enterprise Zone program, which means reduced sales tax!
The return to Cleveland.
I only ever used the red line and only a few times, I have no memory of how the paying worked. Even leaving a baseball game, getting a train wasn't crowded.
The Red Line is just honor system!
@@MilesinTransit I did recently tell someone going to Cleveland in August, for wrestling. He can get the train from airport to downtown
@@MilesinTransit kind of. They have those turnstiles at Tower City, so if you get on or off there, you have to pay. Otherwise, an honor system that I haven't seen enforced since 2018 or so.
I love Cleveland and the RTA is bonkers lol. You get used to it. Thanks for not just Talking Shit
What a bizarre system.
Last video I watched about Cleveland was about the failed / doomed 1986 Balloonfest. Sad.
11:00 I'm unfamiliar with block zones, can you explain that?
A block is a railroad term for the distance between signals. If a train is occupying the next block, the signal in front of said block is red. More modern trains, including the red line trains, display the signal in the cab, known as in-cab signaling, whereas older trains (the blue and green lines) force the engineer to visually look out for the next signal. That is what I understand, feel free to correct me lol.
@@jessieb4503Going westbound (downtown) the light rail lines switch to in-cab signaling at E. 79th Street, and switch to block eastbound at E. 79th Street. That's the first station where the heavy and light rail lines split.
I guess not a lot of cross over with El Toro Ryan on this channel
I recently went to Cleveland, and though the system needs some (okay, a lot) of work, for the size of the city, it's actually pretty decent. Sure, I may have only rode it from Tower City Center to one stop westbound on the red line (the eastbound portion was closed at the time of my visit), and sure, the system is pretty small, but it's much better than some bigger cities across the US. The stations (at least the ones I saw) need a lot of cleaning, and fixing, but they're overall pretty good. The area within a 15 minute walking radius of the station I travelled to from Tower City Center (West 25th - Ohio City) has pretty good development around it, including a market, some newer condos, and an incredible street featuring a very nice cafe/bar, an ice cream shop built out of a movie theatre, and an arcade/bowling alley, to name a few. I'd imagine there were some bars too, but I was there in the morning-afternoon. Overall, a system that needs a little fixing, a little cleaning, and a whole lot of modernization. (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a transit card. I was disappointed, since I'm in the process of collecting cards, but oh well.)
They've been 2 years away from getting a smart card for the past 8 years now
♪♪ All the little chicks with the crimson lips. Goes Cleveland rocks, Cleveland rocks
You have probably mentioned the basic problem: Cleveland's population is down from a peak in the decades around mid 20th century to half that, about what it was in 1920.
Tower City was pretty nice, then Loki attacked it in The Avengers and it's been downhill ever since. Maybe Superman will turn things around though.
Downtown US malls have a hard time, very few if any are thriving. Even the few that were doing well like Westfield San Francisco Shopping Center got hit hard by COVID and crime. The Downtown location by its nature requires huge expensive parking garages to attract tenants and shoppers and with it some sort of paid parking system even if validated. This pi$ses off suburbanites who can't fathom paying for parking at all or the mild inconvenience of taking a ticket at entry to carry with them for validation. Many vow never to return when they can park for free at a conventional suburban mall and not have to deal with the "hassle." Sorry to say this but then you get lots of "youth" hanging out at the downtown mall and there are often fights and highly publicized instances of people being shot or stabbed. This especially drives away the white suburban motorist shoppers. Eventually the stores over time move out from being luxury at opening to mid-tier to lower-tier to mostly vacant... that's precisely what happened to Tower City and countless other urban US malls.
@@jonw999999 I was making a joke about the fact that Cleveland's downtown has been a filming location for both MCU and DC superhero movies, but if you want to make it about your prejudices, I guess you do you.
For what it's worth, whenever I visited Tower City not that long ago, I found it rather pleasant to be in.
@@thexalon it's absolutely not my prejudice. I like Tower City and urban shopping... in fact the only malls I go in are urban malls and make a point to only shop downtown. But there's no denying that unfortunately downtown malls are dying and have for sometime. I wish it wasn't the case. The physical retail market is shrinking and it's really hitting Downtown malls hard - they definitely do have issues that drive away the typical suburban customer. Dont take my word for Tower City's decline, it's literally in news articles and online reviews.
why is it every time I watch these videos, I get ultimate pleasure from it. Do I need help?
Another classic American case of a system with really great bones that's going underutilized. I suspect that one day this will be a much more robust system and that the empty space around stations will be infilled.
Cleveland's population is half what it was and not going back up much if at all.
It'll get there, it has nowhere to go but up, especially once the Sunbelt gets unlivably hot.
@@MilesinTransit my thoughts exactly. I have a hunch that Ohio is going to get real cool in the coming decades, and even more so if Amtrak's plans for the state are realized
Close Green Rd for TOD, make West Green Green Rd and the Park & Ride
If I had known and timed it right I could have hit you with cookies thrown from my window.
Thanks for the rapid review! You're doing great work.
12:25 Dead Mall!
Miles in Transit / Dan Bell collab when?
You should've done this during the solar eclipse.
Try the Norfolk lightrail
now some day you should go to south miles road.
This... seems pretty awful ngl. Abysmal frequencies, poor land use, fare ordinances which are not at all customer friendly, lack of good accessibility, just god. Cleveland has got a lot of work to do thats for sure.
Really looks like the green line needs to be bustituted (or at least be trains rush hour only) to help increase frequency on the Blue line.
And the waterfront line is just sitting there, I wonder if it will ever open again outside of Browns games.
@@BrentFiore That, and city investment and new urban development needs to be centered around the Green line. Thr infrastructure existing is already really valuable. When demand comes, it needs to be concentrated where you already have such a strong spine. But yes both the blue and green line also need to be upgraded when it comes to frequency. Ideally a good idea could be to run the Red line every 7.5 minutes and the Green and Blue every 15 respectively.
somrday they loop the glru and green line baxk on eachother by linking the two eastern ytermonal via ursaline colldge.
00:05:30... definitely heard Ninja-Bread architecture!
Classy whale just did a cleveland video too. Love when yall do Ohio ones haha
Attleboro is way more dense/urban than where you were.
The Ohio street or the Massachusetts city?
@@MilesinTransitthe Attleboro that is next to North Attleboro and contains a South Attleboro
@@mew3782 North Attleborough* ;)
Below 30 minutes & 1K views gang
The weirdness of Cleveland’s “light rail” system is basically standard for northeast Ohio public transportation
So much unrealized potential reawakening the great historic bones from the previous booming glory days
D I N E R