I have had the good fortune of both reading Dr. Yannis' book and having correspondence with him. He truly understands the essence of the sufi path and has an unusually comprehensive way of explaining complex aspects of sufism.
Thank you for making and posting this video. Listening to Yannis Toussulis gave me a similar feeling to listening to John Vervaeke: it's likey own ideas (or rather ideas I hold since most are not original) reflected back at me more lucidly, plus some things I would never have thought of!
Early on I'm wondering, deeply inquisitive really of the role of Women during this Time.? I'm continuing to listen so perhaps that question will be addressed...
Been to Konya &c. and have consorted in ecstatic bliss with some of its young men there, but of all the places to hitch our carts, I wonder whether Islam remains a skillful beast of burden these days, even in this limited context. The God of Love inspires us to kill off all of the other gods once we discover it, and while this esoteric movement may be the "inside attack" or perhaps skillful transformation of a primitive doctrine of violence, hatred, domination, subjugation and submission from within, indeed driving a powerful alchemical wedge in that darkness, the heavy lifting it accomplishes to normalize Islam writ large probably just leads to greater confusion and suffering for sentient beings. Is Sufism to Islam as Christianity is to Judaism? Maybe so. Indeed, Islam itself, as the new kid on the block pretending instead to issue from Abraham's bastard, was that old asura's open-enrollment response to the Christian (Mahayana) internal novel attack on (transformation of) the house of Jacob &c. But the time is at hand to ungraft or decouple both traditions from their diseased hosts, at least in our understanding and imagination. For a regular Muslim to discover and adopt Sufism would be a big step up for sure, a spiritual evolution leading to upward migration, just like it would be for a Jew to abandon the Torah and that violent and jealous fraudulent voice in the desert for Christ, but even better to transcend and evolve beyond them altogether when ready to do so, for all of us and our collective welfare. Better to make our way from expedient to definitive teachings when able. Better to awaken to the union of great compassion and wisdom for the benefit of all. The Doctor seems to suggest as much and agree that it is indeed time for Sufism to "lay aside...the more purely Islamic elements of itself...and focus on meditative practice...Islam as a religion appears to be in a severe crisis." He and his teacher agree it's time to put Islam "on the back burner." But maybe better still to change the diet completely. Time to let go of the primitive tradition which served as its womb and genesis entirely. Steve points out toward the end that an antivenin's power arises from its relation to the venom, but let's also keep the power of the underlying venom here in mind, and remain appropriately critical of it.
I was born a Muslim and disavowed my faith when I was around 18, after being unable to reconcile empirical data, the scientific cannon and my own conception of morality with Islam. This experience was incredibly painful for me and led to a great deal of existential dread, as I felt at odds with the entire world and without any real sense of belonging. It's taken about 10 years to resolve this internal conflict. Discovering the works of those such as Rumi and Ghazali was a genuine relief, realising that I was not crazy for feeling the way I do, as others before me had clearly felt the same. Sufism is a means for me to direct my practice with those whose beliefs align more closely to my own, whilst also not feeling completely ostracised from my community and family. I think there is more than one way to reach the goal and I understand that ideally we would all go from A to B, but we are only human.. some of us need training wheels before we learn to ride the bike, so to speak. Eventually, we don't even need a teacher, because we can ride alone etc. I see exoteric and even esoteric religions as the support systems that teach us how to achieve Oneness with God. The language and names by which they achieve it are largely trivial.
@@DeusPsycho Thank you for highlighting the important bridge and ladder function of Sufism and other provisional paths of upward migration with your personal experience.
I had to abandon Christianity and your experience sounds very familiar. It can be a long,lonely, painful path. I studied all faiths and settled on Buddhism..I adore animals and it just suits me. In a strange way,I feel like I have found my tribe when I read comments in channels like this. I applaud your intellectual rigor and Spiritual sincerity.
Dr Yannis Toussulis talked rubbish about Malamatiya. Malamatya has nothing to do with Judo-Christian and Greek philosophy. He knows nothing about Malamatya which has nothing to do with Sufism too. A true Malamatya never imitates other spiritual journeys, but his own freely and independently, as every soul is responsible for his or her deeds. ان ربی قریب مجیب.
Re: Sexual ethics in Islam with regards to women: Toussulis asks, "how to you deal with that?" The answers is easy if you ask Muslim women. They/we want equal rights and compassionate treatment. He seems poorly informed about what has and is happening in the Muslim countries regarding Women's Rights. Women want the same freedoms as their male counterparts. A very straightforward question with a straightforward answer. Men have not had compassion with their behaviour toward women. Clearly, Muslim men (and Toussulis) still want to control and subjugate women. Jeesh sounds like he just doesn't want to be accountable for man's behaviour and treatment of women. If he doesn't think this is important or 'the juice' he's lost and his ego is not in check. Shame. He had a great opportunity to open up sufism to half the population of the world, Not addressing the question is typical of those who wish to maintain status quo and not be accountable. The old boys club is intact.
@@locuus7 You might want to learn about the systemic ill treatment of women in Muslim cultures. He had a chance to speak about women and sufism and declined to say anything about it and skirted the issue.
@@tlc1of3 I feel he answered part of your question by talking about socio-historical context, thus contrasting the more secular and western attitudes to those strict, fundamentalist adherents of Islam. The reason I mentioned the history of women in Sufism is if you look into it you find that women have always been a part of Sufism. If you look at the history of the Melami, and especially Ibn Arabi, you find Sufi women central to his spiritual development, and a really nuanced centrality of the Divine Feminine. Here's a quote from Ibn Arabi to show you what I mean. "We are [all] female because of what is engendered in us... [In reality] there is not in creation (kawn) a man (rajul). Men who know their own essence (aynahahum) [know that they] are really female...." Have a look at this talk for a deep dive. czcams.com/video/wnQUFzXn0-g/video.html
Tlc1of3, I hardly see how anyone with clear judgment could jump to the conclusions that you do ----and especially with such purported "clarity." To begin with, this interview was not about "sexual ethics in Islam with regards to women." Instead, Steve asked me to give one example of how a softening of the traditional sharia could be applied, and l chose the ethics of marriage, but without going into that topic in depth. Somehow, from this relatively brief example -- one which actually affirms a woman`s equal rights to diivorce -- you launch an ad homin attack by stating, without the slighte st hesitation, that "Clearly Muslim men (and Toussulis) still want to subjugate and control women." Over all, a rather amazing (but rather unreasonable) conclusion buttressed by transparent biases such as the black and white assumption that "Muslim men (presumably ALL of them since there are no qualifiers) seek to deprive women of their human rights. In addition, since I don’t echo such a starkly polemical stance, I must be "poorly informed about what has and is happening in the Muslim countries regarding women's rights."
@@ytoussulis @ David Fraser- Living as a woman in the Middles East it becomes very clear very quickly how women are subjugated en masse. Sufi Women don't seem to have much impact on the current Muslim culture either, from what I can see. Women are expected to live in their home and their voices silenced, while men are free to live a free public life. Do you not see the Iranian news? Iranian women's freedoms has declined over recent decades! Saudi and Kuwait treat women as mere breeding stock. I saw it first hand. Where girls are refused access to advanced schooling unless you are lucky and have educated, worldly parents, and even still that does not guarantee a girls freedom to become a self actualized human being. Anywhere where the Taliban are, women are hidden, mere breeding stock, and their voices silenced. You can't even bring yourselves to acknowledge the fact that Muslim countries treat women poorly for Cultural/Religious reasons. You had an opportunity to shed light on key issues that affect HALF the Muslim Population and chose not too. It's "too controversial." You chose to skirt the issue, weep it under the proverbial persian rug. It's too difficult to address and own up to it, as men typically do. Let yourself off easy why don't you, and continue to mansplain to a woman with lived experience. It's so predictable and status quo. Half the global populations rights are being attacked and eroded and you argue against me.
I have had the good fortune of both reading Dr. Yannis' book and having correspondence with him. He truly understands the essence of the sufi path and has an unusually comprehensive way of explaining complex aspects of sufism.
looking forward to this
Brilliant discussion, didn't want it to end 👏🏼
Thank you once again GuruVi for a most excellent interview and exposure of a profound path!
Great content. I was really looking forward to the second part of this interview.
Thank you for making and posting this video. Listening to Yannis Toussulis gave me a similar feeling to listening to John Vervaeke: it's likey own ideas (or rather ideas I hold since most are not original) reflected back at me more lucidly, plus some things I would never have thought of!
Great questions GuruViking on comparative mysticism. Maybe it's time to check out Kashmir Shaivism?.
Early on I'm wondering, deeply inquisitive really of the role of Women during this Time.? I'm continuing to listen so perhaps that question will be addressed...
Within Sufism historically? Present? Women generally in current time?
Hope Dr Yannis will write a second book...
Been to Konya &c. and have consorted in ecstatic bliss with some of its young men there, but of all the places to hitch our carts, I wonder whether Islam remains a skillful beast of burden these days, even in this limited context. The God of Love inspires us to kill off all of the other gods once we discover it, and while this esoteric movement may be the "inside attack" or perhaps skillful transformation of a primitive doctrine of violence, hatred, domination, subjugation and submission from within, indeed driving a powerful alchemical wedge in that darkness, the heavy lifting it accomplishes to normalize Islam writ large probably just leads to greater confusion and suffering for sentient beings. Is Sufism to Islam as Christianity is to Judaism? Maybe so. Indeed, Islam itself, as the new kid on the block pretending instead to issue from Abraham's bastard, was that old asura's open-enrollment response to the Christian (Mahayana) internal novel attack on (transformation of) the house of Jacob &c. But the time is at hand to ungraft or decouple both traditions from their diseased hosts, at least in our understanding and imagination. For a regular Muslim to discover and adopt Sufism would be a big step up for sure, a spiritual evolution leading to upward migration, just like it would be for a Jew to abandon the Torah and that violent and jealous fraudulent voice in the desert for Christ, but even better to transcend and evolve beyond them altogether when ready to do so, for all of us and our collective welfare. Better to make our way from expedient to definitive teachings when able. Better to awaken to the union of great compassion and wisdom for the benefit of all. The Doctor seems to suggest as much and agree that it is indeed time for Sufism to "lay aside...the more purely Islamic elements of itself...and focus on meditative practice...Islam as a religion appears to be in a severe crisis." He and his teacher agree it's time to put Islam "on the back burner." But maybe better still to change the diet completely. Time to let go of the primitive tradition which served as its womb and genesis entirely. Steve points out toward the end that an antivenin's power arises from its relation to the venom, but let's also keep the power of the underlying venom here in mind, and remain appropriately critical of it.
I was born a Muslim and disavowed my faith when I was around 18, after being unable to reconcile empirical data, the scientific cannon and my own conception of morality with Islam. This experience was incredibly painful for me and led to a great deal of existential dread, as I felt at odds with the entire world and without any real sense of belonging. It's taken about 10 years to resolve this internal conflict. Discovering the works of those such as Rumi and Ghazali was a genuine relief, realising that I was not crazy for feeling the way I do, as others before me had clearly felt the same. Sufism is a means for me to direct my practice with those whose beliefs align more closely to my own, whilst also not feeling completely ostracised from my community and family.
I think there is more than one way to reach the goal and I understand that ideally we would all go from A to B, but we are only human.. some of us need training wheels before we learn to ride the bike, so to speak. Eventually, we don't even need a teacher, because we can ride alone etc. I see exoteric and even esoteric religions as the support systems that teach us how to achieve Oneness with God. The language and names by which they achieve it are largely trivial.
@@DeusPsycho Thank you for highlighting the important bridge and ladder function of Sufism and other provisional paths of upward migration with your personal experience.
I had to abandon Christianity and your experience sounds very familiar. It can be a long,lonely, painful path. I studied all faiths and settled on Buddhism..I adore animals and it just suits me. In a strange way,I feel like I have found my tribe when I read comments in channels like this. I applaud your intellectual rigor and Spiritual sincerity.
@@fretnesbutke3233 this comment warmed my heart. Thank you. Best wishes on your journey.
Dr Yannis Toussulis talked rubbish about Malamatiya. Malamatya has nothing to do with Judo-Christian and Greek philosophy. He knows nothing about Malamatya which has nothing to do with Sufism too. A true Malamatya never imitates other spiritual journeys, but his own freely and independently, as every soul is responsible for his or her deeds. ان ربی قریب مجیب.
This guy is my guy 100% this is a great interview and a very wise man...Thanks Guru Viking
Re: Sexual ethics in Islam with regards to women: Toussulis asks, "how to you deal with that?" The answers is easy if you ask Muslim women. They/we want equal rights and compassionate treatment. He seems poorly informed about what has and is happening in the Muslim countries regarding Women's Rights. Women want the same freedoms as their male counterparts. A very straightforward question with a straightforward answer. Men have not had compassion with their behaviour toward women. Clearly, Muslim men (and Toussulis) still want to control and subjugate women. Jeesh sounds like he just doesn't want to be accountable for man's behaviour and treatment of women. If he doesn't think this is important or 'the juice' he's lost and his ego is not in check. Shame. He had a great opportunity to open up sufism to half the population of the world, Not addressing the question is typical of those who wish to maintain status quo and not be accountable. The old boys club is intact.
You might want to look into the history of women in Sufism....
@@locuus7 You might want to learn about the systemic ill treatment of women in Muslim cultures. He had a chance to speak about women and sufism and declined to say anything about it and skirted the issue.
@@tlc1of3 I feel he answered part of your question by talking about socio-historical context, thus contrasting the more secular and western attitudes to those strict, fundamentalist adherents of Islam. The reason I mentioned the history of women in Sufism is if you look into it you find that women have always been a part of Sufism. If you look at the history of the Melami, and especially Ibn Arabi, you find Sufi women central to his spiritual development, and a really nuanced centrality of the Divine Feminine. Here's a quote from Ibn Arabi to show you what I mean. "We are [all] female because of what is engendered in us... [In reality] there is not in creation (kawn) a man (rajul). Men who know their own essence (aynahahum) [know that they] are really female...." Have a look at this talk for a deep dive. czcams.com/video/wnQUFzXn0-g/video.html
Tlc1of3, I hardly see how anyone with clear judgment could jump to the conclusions that you do ----and especially with such purported "clarity." To begin with, this interview was not about "sexual ethics in Islam with regards to women." Instead, Steve asked me to give one example of how a softening of the traditional sharia could be applied, and l chose the ethics of marriage, but without going into that topic in depth. Somehow, from this relatively brief example -- one which actually affirms a woman`s equal rights to diivorce -- you launch an ad homin attack by stating, without the slighte st hesitation, that "Clearly Muslim men (and Toussulis) still want to subjugate and control women." Over all, a rather amazing (but rather unreasonable) conclusion buttressed by transparent biases such as the black and white assumption that "Muslim men (presumably ALL of them since there are no qualifiers) seek to deprive women of their human rights. In addition, since I don’t echo such a starkly polemical stance, I must be "poorly informed about what has and is happening in the Muslim countries regarding women's rights."
@@ytoussulis @ David Fraser- Living as a woman in the Middles East it becomes very clear very quickly how women are subjugated en masse. Sufi Women don't seem to have much impact on the current Muslim culture either, from what I can see. Women are expected to live in their home and their voices silenced, while men are free to live a free public life. Do you not see the Iranian news? Iranian women's freedoms has declined over recent decades! Saudi and Kuwait treat women as mere breeding stock. I saw it first hand. Where girls are refused access to advanced schooling unless you are lucky and have educated, worldly parents, and even still that does not guarantee a girls freedom to become a self actualized human being. Anywhere where the Taliban are, women are hidden, mere breeding stock, and their voices silenced.
You can't even bring yourselves to acknowledge the fact that Muslim countries treat women poorly for Cultural/Religious reasons. You had an opportunity to shed light on key issues that affect HALF the Muslim Population and chose not too. It's "too controversial."
You chose to skirt the issue, weep it under the proverbial persian rug. It's too difficult to address and own up to it, as men typically do. Let yourself off easy why don't you, and continue to mansplain to a woman with lived experience. It's so predictable and status quo. Half the global populations rights are being attacked and eroded and you argue against me.