Very VERY interesting discussion. SF in some ways is the modern version of myths, including super heroes (and villains) being the modern versions of demigods and the like. Humans keep telling the same stories over and over again since the dawn of time because human nature stays the same, no matter how fancy we think we are in 2024, we're no different than the apes in 2001 A Space Odyssey.
Unless one of those monoliths finally shows up! I would agree that many of these stories speak to the same part of us as myths; what that part is, would be an even deeper discussion... thanks very much for watching, and for the kind words!
@@zone-sf Oh yes... discussing what that part might be is a whole universe in itself. No worries. It was engaging. Besides, I see a guy with guitars and an SM57 talking about sci-fi, I listen ;) Nice songs too, you have. Cheers.
@@DarkSideofSynth Thanks! Looking forward to hearing your music as well. I have a soft spot for Italian synth music... BTW, I also have a French language sf channel, with about 100 videos. Here's the link if you want to check it out: www.youtube.com/@pourquoicbon
@@zone-sf Thanks. I'll check it out. I dabble in many genres besides 'typical' synth music. You have plenty of choices, and hundreds of videos and playlists.
Hello Christian. I watched this video with great interest. I am glad that our correspondence dialogue remains truly deep. As for the Soviet film "Moonlight Rainbow" (1983). An interesting detail that is worth paying attention to: film director, Andrei Yermash, was the son of Philip Yermash, the Minister of Soviet Cinema. Many Russian viewers still criticize this film for its poor performance, comparing it with the literary source (the story of the same name by Sergei Pavlov). I partly agree with this criticism, but I always say that this was a film debut, the first film done by Andrei Yermash. His next film, “The End of Eternity,” an adaptation of Isaac Asimov’s novel, in my opinion, is very well made. However, angry critics point out that the son was given the opportunity to direct a big-budget film too easily. By the way, this film stars actor Vasily Livanov, the same one who was Sherlock Holmes in the Soviet film adaptation of Conan Doyle stories. Here again he plays an Englishman (or American) named Galbraith, who is involved in the investigation of the "black marks". You correctly noted that many Soviet science fiction films feature characters of different nationalities, including Western countries. Obviously, Soviet directors and writers assumed that in the near future humanity would be more integrated and would be able to jointly solve problems of a planetary nature. From the point of view of Soviet ideology, this would be possible in a communist society or a society that has approached this historical stage. Though, the concept of “communism” was very rarely mentioned in Soviet films, even if they were talking about a “bright future.”
Hello Alexander! Thanks for all the background info. I had no idea that Philip Yermash was the son of the Minister of Soviet Cinema. Fascinating! I have to admit I only partly liked Moon Rainbow. The space stuff is fantastic, and I like the story, but for much of the first half I found it difficult to follow; that might be because of the subtitles. However, it's a lot of talking people sitting at desks. Knowing that it's a first movie certainly explains a lot. I've heard good things about End of Eternity, so I'm curious to see it. I did like Artemiev's score at lot. And I did recognize our friend Sherlock Holmes... once he started talking. He looks quite different here, with the moustache. I do intend to read the book, once my Russian is good enough. The big question about ideology is always this: how much of the movie's message is sincere, and how much is coming from political pressure, or from trying to further one's career by saying the right message. We have a lot of that here, even discounting the last few years (Disney Star Wars, etc.) To me, the question of sincerity is in many ways the most important one. By the way, a friend told me that the circular motion of the characters in Tarkovsky's Stalker - going around in a spiral to the center of the Zone, where the Room is - may have come from the lithurgy of the Russian Orthodox Church. Do you think there might be something to that idea?
@@zone-sf As for "Stalker" by Andrei Tarkovsky. I have not studied Andrei Tarkovsky's works in detail and have not read his diaries. Perhaps the answer can be found there. Although I guess that he was a rather secretive person. I can admit that there is a connection with the Orthodox liturgy, but I will not insist. It is absolutely certain that his films, starting with "Andrei Rublev", indeed, had a noticeable influence on part of the Soviet intelligentsia (an important term!), which in the 1970s began to secretly return to religious life. They began to be christened and attend church, as if in mild opposition to the anti-religious doctrine of the Soviet state. Thus, Andrei Tarkovsky was in fact perceived by part of Soviet bohemia as a representative of “spiritual revival” in the religious sense or in a quasi-religious one. By the way, the appearance of actor Vasily Livanov in the film “Moon Rainbow” is practically indistinguishable from his everyday look in the 1980s: the same mustache and even the same leather jacket.
Good to know about Livanov! I have Tarkovsky's journal in German (either that, or a book he wrote about cinema). I should be able to read it within a couple of months. Should be quite interesting.
@@Mrtipps1234 Thanks! Yes I do. I first replied using my French CZcams handle and it's not showing right now, so here it is again: 1. I built a website that aims to list every sf movie ever made. Most of the films before 2007 have been added. Here's the link: sf.maltais.org 2. And here is the list of the ones I've seen: sf.maltais.org/fr/cmaltais-liste
Of course, the Soviet viewer immediately understood that the film «Отель" У погибшего альпиниста"» did not take place in the USSR. First of all, there are no mountains in Estonia :)). Secondly, there are no such terrorist organizations that have a helicopter, but the USSR did not exist and could not exist. In the first version of the story, these were neo-Nazis. Then the authors replaced them with gangsters. Moreover, the gangsters are clearly American: the Hinkus pistol, a Luger 0.45 caliber, was produced for the USA and was not sold in Europe. Former military intelligence officer Arkady Strugatsky was knowledgeable about Western weapons.
I admit I don't remember the gangsters in the story (only the main character and the aliens), but it's been a couple of years. Yes, for us over here the Baltic countries, and most of the former USSR, are just names on a map. There's snow in Russia; Russia was in the USSR; Estonia was in the USSR; there's snow on mountains; this is an Estonian film; these must be Estonian mountains. It's basically what happens. Faulty logic. Likewise for the guns and vehicles. There are helicopters in the USSR; etc. Likewise for seeing all law enforcement people as KGB. That's basically all we know, so we presume that's what we're seeing. I did not know Arkady Strugatsky was a former intelligence officer. Quite interesting! I did visit Latvia once, which is another story... Thanks again for all the info!
@@zone-sf Arkady Strugatsky is a military translator from Japanese and English. It is clear that military translators are taught not only the language, but also general military training, as well as information about the organization of the army of a potential enemy, weapons and equipment. They have to figure it all out. Arkady Strugatsky left the army with the rank of captain, when in the 50s they began to reduce the army. Well, in peacetime, where are translators needed? In intelligence. Strugatsky’s last place of service was a radio interception service unit in the Far East.
@@user-sk8pl6ip4d Wow, that's super fascinating! I had no idea he spoke Japanese. I wonder how much his knowledge of Japanese culture influenced his outlook and writing.
@@zone-sf Hi, Christian After a long break, I've watched this movie again this evening. Once again I was very impressed. It's pity the film is so short. It would have been better if the it consisted of two episodes. I would like to add a few words to the discussion. I specifically checked two versions - in Estonian and dubbed into Russian. During the opening credits, when the inspector drives up to the hotel, we hear a French-language radio station working. The announcer mentions the word "France". In particular, this detail tells us that the action takes place somewhere in the European Alps. The second detail is a note from an unknown person, which the inspector reads; it is written in French: "Khinekous est membre D'une organisation criminelle, un Terroriste Dangereux, connu parle surnom Filine. On prepare un Meurtre. Prenez des mesures necessesaires." Do these details not work for Western viewers?
@@zone-sf Interesting point for your analysis, Christian. In the Strugatskys' story, the inspector for a long time could not understand who Brun was. Throughout the narrative, the authors maintain ambiguity regarding this character. It is not clear whether Brun is she or he? Readers catch the subtext that the inspector has rather conservative ideas about life, he is older, he is definitely not from the Woodstock generation. In the film, Brune's ambiguity is eliminated right away. We see that she is a girl, albeit a strange one.
Very VERY interesting discussion. SF in some ways is the modern version of myths, including super heroes (and villains) being the modern versions of demigods and the like. Humans keep telling the same stories over and over again since the dawn of time because human nature stays the same, no matter how fancy we think we are in 2024, we're no different than the apes in 2001 A Space Odyssey.
Unless one of those monoliths finally shows up! I would agree that many of these stories speak to the same part of us as myths; what that part is, would be an even deeper discussion... thanks very much for watching, and for the kind words!
@@zone-sf Oh yes... discussing what that part might be is a whole universe in itself.
No worries. It was engaging. Besides, I see a guy with guitars and an SM57 talking about sci-fi, I listen ;) Nice songs too, you have. Cheers.
@@DarkSideofSynth Thanks! Looking forward to hearing your music as well. I have a soft spot for Italian synth music...
BTW, I also have a French language sf channel, with about 100 videos. Here's the link if you want to check it out: www.youtube.com/@pourquoicbon
@@zone-sf Thanks. I'll check it out. I dabble in many genres besides 'typical' synth music. You have plenty of choices, and hundreds of videos and playlists.
Hello Christian.
I watched this video with great interest. I am glad that our correspondence dialogue remains truly deep. As for the Soviet film "Moonlight Rainbow" (1983). An interesting detail that is worth paying attention to: film director, Andrei Yermash, was the son of Philip Yermash, the Minister of Soviet Cinema. Many Russian viewers still criticize this film for its poor performance, comparing it with the literary source (the story of the same name by Sergei Pavlov). I partly agree with this criticism, but I always say that this was a film debut, the first film done by Andrei Yermash. His next film, “The End of Eternity,” an adaptation of Isaac Asimov’s novel, in my opinion, is very well made. However, angry critics point out that the son was given the opportunity to direct a big-budget film too easily.
By the way, this film stars actor Vasily Livanov, the same one who was Sherlock Holmes in the Soviet film adaptation of Conan Doyle stories. Here again he plays an Englishman (or American) named Galbraith, who is involved in the investigation of the "black marks". You correctly noted that many Soviet science fiction films feature characters of different nationalities, including Western countries. Obviously, Soviet directors and writers assumed that in the near future humanity would be more integrated and would be able to jointly solve problems of a planetary nature. From the point of view of Soviet ideology, this would be possible in a communist society or a society that has approached this historical stage. Though, the concept of “communism” was very rarely mentioned in Soviet films, even if they were talking about a “bright future.”
Hello Alexander! Thanks for all the background info. I had no idea that Philip Yermash was the son of the Minister of Soviet Cinema. Fascinating! I have to admit I only partly liked Moon Rainbow. The space stuff is fantastic, and I like the story, but for much of the first half I found it difficult to follow; that might be because of the subtitles. However, it's a lot of talking people sitting at desks. Knowing that it's a first movie certainly explains a lot.
I've heard good things about End of Eternity, so I'm curious to see it. I did like Artemiev's score at lot. And I did recognize our friend Sherlock Holmes... once he started talking. He looks quite different here, with the moustache.
I do intend to read the book, once my Russian is good enough.
The big question about ideology is always this: how much of the movie's message is sincere, and how much is coming from political pressure, or from trying to further one's career by saying the right message. We have a lot of that here, even discounting the last few years (Disney Star Wars, etc.)
To me, the question of sincerity is in many ways the most important one.
By the way, a friend told me that the circular motion of the characters in Tarkovsky's Stalker - going around in a spiral to the center of the Zone, where the Room is - may have come from the lithurgy of the Russian Orthodox Church. Do you think there might be something to that idea?
@@zone-sf As for "Stalker" by Andrei Tarkovsky. I have not studied Andrei Tarkovsky's works in detail and have not read his diaries. Perhaps the answer can be found there. Although I guess that he was a rather secretive person. I can admit that there is a connection with the Orthodox liturgy, but I will not insist. It is absolutely certain that his films, starting with "Andrei Rublev", indeed, had a noticeable influence on part of the Soviet intelligentsia (an important term!), which in the 1970s began to secretly return to religious life. They began to be christened and attend church, as if in mild opposition to the anti-religious doctrine of the Soviet state. Thus, Andrei Tarkovsky was in fact perceived by part of Soviet bohemia as a representative of “spiritual revival” in the religious sense or in a quasi-religious one.
By the way, the appearance of actor Vasily Livanov in the film “Moon Rainbow” is practically indistinguishable from his everyday look in the 1980s: the same mustache and even the same leather jacket.
@@zone-sf As far as I know, the film "Moon Rainbow" has a full voice dubbing made in Soviet times for export - English and French.
@@alexandersedov9896 Thanks for the English Dub! I'd love to see the French one, those are actually very good.
Good to know about Livanov! I have Tarkovsky's journal in German (either that, or a book he wrote about cinema). I should be able to read it within a couple of months. Should be quite interesting.
I’ve got so much homework to do!
Great video. I don’t suppose you have a site with a list for all these movies?
@@Mrtipps1234 Thanks! Yes I do.
I first replied using my French CZcams handle and it's not showing right now, so here it is again:
1. I built a website that aims to list every sf movie ever made. Most of the films before 2007 have been added. Here's the link:
sf.maltais.org
2. And here is the list of the ones I've seen:
sf.maltais.org/fr/cmaltais-liste
Oh, that’s brilliant. Thank you so much. I’ve subscribed to your channel and look forward to future videos!
@@Mrtipps1234 Thanks man. See you soon! ;)
Of course, the Soviet viewer immediately understood that the film «Отель" У погибшего альпиниста"» did not take place in the USSR. First of all, there are no mountains in Estonia :)).
Secondly, there are no such terrorist organizations that have a helicopter, but the USSR did not exist and could not exist. In the first version of the story, these were neo-Nazis. Then the authors replaced them with gangsters. Moreover, the gangsters are clearly American: the Hinkus pistol, a Luger 0.45 caliber, was produced for the USA and was not sold in Europe. Former military intelligence officer Arkady Strugatsky was knowledgeable about Western weapons.
I admit I don't remember the gangsters in the story (only the main character and the aliens), but it's been a couple of years.
Yes, for us over here the Baltic countries, and most of the former USSR, are just names on a map. There's snow in Russia; Russia was in the USSR; Estonia was in the USSR; there's snow on mountains; this is an Estonian film; these must be Estonian mountains. It's basically what happens. Faulty logic.
Likewise for the guns and vehicles. There are helicopters in the USSR; etc.
Likewise for seeing all law enforcement people as KGB. That's basically all we know, so we presume that's what we're seeing.
I did not know Arkady Strugatsky was a former intelligence officer. Quite interesting!
I did visit Latvia once, which is another story...
Thanks again for all the info!
@@zone-sf Arkady Strugatsky is a military translator from Japanese and English. It is clear that military translators are taught not only the language, but also general military training, as well as information about the organization of the army of a potential enemy, weapons and equipment. They have to figure it all out. Arkady Strugatsky left the army with the rank of captain, when in the 50s they began to reduce the army. Well, in peacetime, where are translators needed? In intelligence. Strugatsky’s last place of service was a radio interception service unit in the Far East.
@@user-sk8pl6ip4d Wow, that's super fascinating!
I had no idea he spoke Japanese. I wonder how much his knowledge of Japanese culture influenced his outlook and writing.
@@zone-sf Hi, Christian
After a long break, I've watched this movie again this evening. Once again I was very impressed. It's pity the film is so short. It would have been better if the it consisted of two episodes. I would like to add a few words to the discussion. I specifically checked two versions - in Estonian and dubbed into Russian. During the opening credits, when the inspector drives up to the hotel, we hear a French-language radio station working. The announcer mentions the word "France". In particular, this detail tells us that the action takes place somewhere in the European Alps. The second detail is a note from an unknown person, which the inspector reads; it is written in French: "Khinekous est membre D'une organisation criminelle, un Terroriste Dangereux, connu parle surnom Filine. On prepare un Meurtre. Prenez des mesures necessesaires." Do these details not work for Western viewers?
@@zone-sf Interesting point for your analysis, Christian. In the Strugatskys' story, the inspector for a long time could not understand who Brun was. Throughout the narrative, the authors maintain ambiguity regarding this character. It is not clear whether Brun is she or he? Readers catch the subtext that the inspector has rather conservative ideas about life, he is older, he is definitely not from the Woodstock generation. In the film, Brune's ambiguity is eliminated right away. We see that she is a girl, albeit a strange one.