The MOST fun you can have with cheap audio gear! xDuoo MT-601, MT-602, MT-604
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- A review and comparison of xDuoo's outstanding range of #hybridamps including the #MT601 #MT-602 and #MT-604 I've compared them to each other and also tried some #tuberolling
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00:00 Introduction
03:40 Common features
04:13 Benefits of hybrid amps
05:16 Common issues
08:24 MT-601 Review
11:39 Tube rolling the MT-601
12:55 MT-601 vs MT-602
14:25 MT-602 Review
18:37 MT-604 Review
22:04 MT-602 vs MT-604
24:13 Tube vs solid state sound
25:09 Final conclusions
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Thank you for the review!Very informative as always!I just get the MT-602 and i am waiting for a matched pair of GE JAN 5654W tubes to roll in! With the stock tubes the sound its great!Tested with SUNDARA,SENNHEISER HD650,HD600 and HD560s!
Awesome! Glad you're enjoying your 602!
Great review. Much more useful than some of the reviews I have listened to.
So glad you found it helpful! I aim to approach reviews like a consumer and enthusiast rather than a reviewer / critic so hopefully that's working 🙂
very comforting explained, thank you, i've learn a lot now.
I'm glad I could help 🙂
Best review of this product line. thanks
Glad you liked it!
I just bought the 604. I am using it with a Hiby R6 iii DAP and HiFiMan Edition XS. I love this set-up. So much fun!!!
That would be great fun! Happy listening 🙂🙂
I've got the 602, upgraded with GE JAN 5654W tubes, and driving HiFiMan SE400S planar magnetics. Love the sound, agree with the overdone gain levels, but I use my DAC to attenuate the signal then boost the volume on the amp to get that full tube sound.
The GE tubes are great, aren't they? Glad you're enjoying your setup and that you've got the gain issue under control.
Well done review and very informative. Cheers!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for letting me know
You have a remarkable hability to address key questions.
I'm so pleased to hear that! I approach these products as a consumer first an foremost so hopefully I'll continue to do so 🙂
That 11 level thing is so funny! LOL
Nice review mate, well done!
Glad you liked it and got the reference 😂
I've seen quite a few reviews of these and you mentioned some problems none of them did, so thank you for that. I like the cut of your jib, Sir.
Thanks SS! I like to share all aspects - good and bad so that viewers can make up their own mind on what's relevant and not. So glad you found it helpful!
Great comparison. Now time for TA-26 vs Darkvoice 👌😉
TA-26 is inbound. I don't have the Darkvoice anymore, but I know what I felt about it and what I compared it to so let's see how the TA-26 compares...
I’ve stacked my Xduoo XD-05 Basic with my Xduoo MT-602 and love the sound I get from them but combined they do look like something Dr Frankenstein might have made as they are held together with some Blu Tack.
I have purchased three extra pair of tubes from AliExpress. All under AU$20. The Russian 6*1n-EB, the GE JAN 5658W and the improved 61J-Q.
I love all of these but I think my favourite is the 61J-Q.
Also I have to say I am impressed with the cleaver, all cardboard packaging that the Russian tube was shipped in.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Paul. I've been inspired to grab a few more tubes myself now and while it likely won't make it to another video, I'm excited to try them out!
Do you have a link to the tube purchase?
Go on make a tube rolling video no one else has and plenty of people would like one, i can give you a list of the good ones to try ! hay its cheaper than a susvara lol.
I'll see what I hear and if it's worth the time and effort. Tube rolling reviews are a nightmare to prepare for and produce.
I have a bunch of tube content in my upcoming Elekit TU8200R part 2
Got my 604 ordered yesterday. Ordered two matching sets of upgraded 7-pin GE JAN 5654w. Upgraded the power supply to the iFi Audio 12v/2.0A Power-X. When I get it all and hook it up, I'll report back. I'll be using the Topping D30Pro as a DAC which has a pre-amp and XLR outs. This DAC has a very wide and deep sound stage already. Already have the Asgard 3 solid state amp so this will be a great duo...and comparison. BTW, the output impedance according to the factory is 3.6ohms.
I think you'll love it! Looking forward to hearing from you when you get it 🙂
@@PassionforSound OK, reporting back on the xDuoo MT-604 with the iFi Power-X ultra clean power supply and stock tubes. The only balanced headphones I have is the Edition XX.
Comparing with the Asgard3 is a tricky proposition. They sound damn close and their tonality is very similar. So here's what I've noticed after quick back and forth many times. (I have to use a single ended adapter for the Asgard). The MT-604 has about 95% of the resolution and dynamics of the Asgard 3 with almost the same exact tonality. The xDuoo MT-604 takes a VERY SLIGHT (5%) hit in resolution and dynamics..... in exchange for a more liquid and mid-forward presentation. Honestly, I wasn't expecting the MT-604 to do that well. The xDuoo is a serious amplifier....not just an "introductory" or "cheap Chinese" pretender. Even with the stock tubes it sounds amazing.
I would think someone with a cheaper (but balanced) DAC would find the liquid presentation of the MT-604 making their DAC sound more expensive and satisfying. I could also imagine a FOCAL headphone owner might really like this amp! FOCAL headphones are already impressively dynamic and slightly metallic. I would imagine the MT-604 would synergize well with any of the FOCAL line especially if they wanted their headphones to soften ever so slightly and reduce the digitus , etch, or metallic sound of poor recordings--or just to relax themselves or their headphones just slightly. I honestly think the MT-604 eases listening fatigue.....but the Asgard3 is a pretty smooth operator too.
I will keep both amps because they're both so affordable but also because I need a single ended amp for my other headphones. The twin volume control is no problem for me--not only because I have a DAC with a preamp but because I can utilize the master volume on my Windows laptop and leave the twin volume knobs on the MT604 alone at about 11 O'Clock. I am anxious to try out some even better tubes. They could easily put the MT-604 over the top of the Asgard 3. They're that close. Both are amazing sounding amps and amazing value. You can't lose with either.
Thanks for the great write-up! It's interesting timing too because I was playing with the MT-604 today using a higher quality power supply and it's pretty impressive how good the 604 can sound.
I think I've also got some GE tubes in there and they're a nice upgrade as well.
As you say, the 604 is incredible value for money and works with systems at pretty much any level.
@@PassionforSound I wanted to get back with you on the MT604 with the GE 5654w tubes. Well, the Asgard3 is destroyed for low end extension and dynamics. Someone with any of the Sennheiser HD650 or HD600, HD580/HD56X, etc. open backs will LOVE the MT604 with the GE tubes! With my Edition XX the GE tubes produce a mighty powerful and meaty bass which makes the Asgard3 sound like a flat transistor radio.....lol. With the XX I may do better with a mid-centric tube....in fact the stock tubes do really well with XX. I'm never going back to pure solid state amps. Now I want a fully appointed solid-state/Tube hybrid for all my headphones. This MT604 is a REAL amp with real grunt, dynamics, sound stage, and emotion. I'm hooked.
I completely agree about the MT604 - it's brilliant! For anyone reading this, the Asgard 3 does have things it does better than the MT604 so both are still great choices
hey dude, excellent vid there. i bought the mt602 back in march of this year and i can 100% agree with you on the turn off pop lol. it's so savage that i swear it must have shortened my life. i seem to forget that it does it every time i turn it off and only in the last month have i begun to remove my cans before i shut her down lol. i will say that my 602 is black as night at around 9oclock on my hd560s's however (again agreed.. maximum level i listen at before fatigue with those cans). ie: i do not have any spurious noise in the background... like the discharge sound you speak of. i have many many different nos 6j1 valves from around the world and have enjoyed rolling and sampling them. if you were using the factory tubes i don't doubt you'd have spurious noise. the Chinese tubes these things come with are absolute junk. undetailed, bloated messy bass and congested mid as you mentioned. i have tubes from mullard, valvo, voskhod, nevs, svetlana, rca, sylvania, ge, ratheyon, rtc, pinnacle, siemens and zaerix. just ordered the holy of holy late 50's western electric 6ak5's too. nicest sounding so far are the 60's svetlana's. lovely bass and clean and detailed top. the least microphonic are the voskhod's. you could set a nuke off next to them and only hear a very distant disturbance. the chinese tubes the 602 came with would ping if someone farted in the next village. i think if you looked at them funny, they made a noise lolol. i would love it if you got a few sets of tubes for yours and did a comparison vid. thanks again good sir xx
So sorry that I missed responding to this when you posted it!!
I've tried a few tube options since doing this video and I do agree that the Voskhod and GE options can be very good. I settled on the GEs for my system and preferences. Not sure if I'll get around to a tube-rolling video because I have SOOOO much gear to get through at the moment :)
@@PassionforSound good stuff dude. Love your vids man! Xx
Ok I rolled the tubes on the Linsoul Xduoo MT-604
6ak5 Sylvania cost £5 x 4 postage £25 total . Big upgrade highly recommend them . Take care taking out stock ones they can be stubborn .
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
I have the 604 and do not ear any pops crackles or buzz. It’s as quiet as any amp can be. I agree the gain is too high!. I bought a cheap passive balanced volume control and that makes it very functional. At first I did not like the separate left and right volume control but now I like it. If there is any channel imbalance with the tubes or songs it’s easy to correct. I think this little amp sounds really good at a very cheap price. I replaced the tubes with western electric 403B tubes and love the sound. They were $18 per tube and got them from Vacuum Tubes, Inc from Florida. I especially like it with focal Clears and Senn hd6xx headphones. It is only a balanced in and out amp so cannot be used single ended.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Donald. Glad you're enjoying your 604
How does the 604 compete with tube amps that cost $700 and above?
That will all depend on the amp, but you generally get what you pay for in this hobby (factoring in diminishing returns) so don't expect the 604 to be as good as expensive gear. It's great for its price and maybe a little above.
Thorough review and nice presentation. 🙂
I completely agree with you on attenuating the input signal to get around the issue of high gain.
Overall, I am chuffed with the sound that I get from the MT-602 plugged into the HE 400Se; just the right amount of "tubeyness" without diminishing clarity and resolution.
That's great news - so glad you're enjoying the setup!
@@PassionforSound Here's my set-up: ibb.co/4KqQGMf
That's a nice simple rig!
@@PassionforSound Thank you. 🙂
@@PassionforSound Hi. 🙂It’s been a while.
I’ve recently bought AKG K612 Pro & have upgraded my DAC to xDuoo XD05 Basic.
Do check these cans out! They’ve got a great sound with a big soundstage! Very detailed too.
I just ordered the Voskhod 6J1P-EV from Ukraine and the Sylvania 6AK5. Looking forward to testing them out with my MT-604
They're a nice tube. Hope you love them!
Here is my experience: the stock tubes are quite good. After trying the two types of tubes I purchased, I settled down with the Voskhod NOS 4 matched tubes. They sound the best to me. Thank yiu🎉
I got MT602 andYou dont need to unplug one to use other im using it with iem's and as preamp for my main amplifier. Works fantastic with IEM's as long as you control sound it with sound source.
Are you saying that the preamp output works at the same time as the HP output is active?
Stupid question but do you get more "tubeyness" the higher you turn the volume knob (and assuming you turn down your DAC to keep listening level reasonable?
That's actually a really interesting question, but unless you're driving the amp until it begins distorting due to clipping, the quality of the sound won't change.
They might just have high input sensitivity. Like my amp needs 520mV RMS to go full power. Any modern DACs uses 2-2.5V RCA or 4-5V XLR so they are quite hot for a lot of tube amps. You can run a Preamp DAC or a 6DB-12DB attenuator to fix that. Building a transformer volume control in between your amp and DAC can fix this issue as well.
That's a good point. I didn't check the specs to see what the input impedance is like. Either way, they're poorly designed (as a modern product) for use with modern DACs which is a shame as it limits their application to only those with DACs that provide variable output levels or people with other means of attenuation.
Can these be used as a tube buffer for a stack like the E30 L30? New to tube stuff so am a bit confused.
Yes, in the case of the 601 and 602. Not the 604 though. 🙂
@@PassionforSound thanks 👍
Fantastic review!
I’m running the 604 as my “ Holy Craptacular” amp in my system …BUT you’re absolutely correct in the WTF level of gain ( 15-18db)
The way I got around it ..Little Bear balanced passive preamp as the master volume feeding the 604 ..and left the 604 volumes set at noon..so there’s room for balance adjustment ( if needed) . Now, my system runs balanced throughout and my IEM’s sound spectacular on this system and my 650’s open up and are actually fun to listen to .
Using a Little Bear balanced switch box I get to use the feed from my DAC ( balanced) and send the signal to the 789, the Loxji 20 and the pre amp that feeds the 604…so I can do A,B and C for what sounds best …and in most cases the tubes win 🤣
Have a great weekend and thanks for the wonderful review.🍻
What a great setup! Out of interest, have you tested to see if the preamp is altering the sound at all? One of my patrons was looking at adding one to his setup.
@@PassionforSound I’ve A/B the sound with and without the Little Bear balanced passive preamp…I’ve not noticed a change ( listening using balanced IEM’s Blon 3 and my 650’s) However, the gain (non adjusted sans pre amp) can get to be a tad much to control..nothing past the 8:00 to Almost 9:00 MAX .
As you’ve stated , you really need to think about your set up ..particularly as to the addition of a volume control PRIOR to sending the signal to the 604.
For shits and giggles I ran the KZ KS10 Pro IEM’s via the 4.4 Pentacon …interesting to say the least ..OPEN SOUNDSTAGE!
It makes even “cheap” IEM’s and decent headphones take on a whole new character.
This BEASTIE can be used as a preamp ..again very carefully to how you set it up!
Hope this helps 🍻
@@carminedesanto6746hey, a bit late, but would you still recommend running a little bear between the dac and the 604?
I have gl2000 and have a focal clear on the way, looking to get a dac+amp combo for them have a very good deal on a modius so looking to get that, thinking of doing the little bear into 604 as my amp, would you recommend it? Any tips for upgrades?
@@UnknownDarkness1 little bear passive preamp ( balanced) is the way to go ..it’s not expensive and is very good.
As for the GL that’s a serious headphone…and I’m not to sure how it takes to tubes …
I think Zeos ran that headphone..maybe worth the search on CZcams.
Hope that helps .
Current set up
CD 💿 player , steamer ( Wiim Pro) and usb all feed into a Topping E50 DAC ..and the balanced output of the DAC goes to the little bear balanced switch box..so I can select the 789 amp or the 604 ..and into my little bear pre amp to get a signal to the 604.
The 604’s L/R volumes are at noon and are used for balance only …then it’s onto my
headphones or IEM’s.
Hope that helps 👍🍕☕️
@@carminedesanto6746 well just ordered the 604 and the little bear balanced preamp with xlr connecters, and picked up my modius... Now we wait, will update once I get a chance to listen
Thank you
Dude your reviews are amazing, do one on VC though
It's coming. I'm working on something pretty cool with Zach & Bevin at ZMF. Stay tuned...
Somehow I missed your review / comparison until now. I actually have all 3 amps, and they are interesting indeed. I had not taken the cover off of the MT-601, and I noticed in your video that it has small heatsinks with the output transistors, on the top side of the circuit board, which the others don't. My son and I are using these, and the MT-601 works its best with an Electro-Harmonix 6922 / E88CC tube, which is made in Russia, and costs about $17-18. It definitely has *much* better sound, and seems to have more current available than the MT-602. It is much cooler than the stock tube.
I am using GE JAN 5654W matched pair in the MT-602. These have much better quality than the stock tubes. I have ordered some Russian made 6J1P-EV matched pair of mil spec tubes. They are about $22 / pair. Ebay has a different brand called Voskhod that are a matched pair of 6J1P-EV for $17 (MT-602) - or 2 matched pairs for about $31 (MT-604). These are well reviewed, as among the best or the best available 6J1 replacement tubes.
I agree on the gain - the volume pots are 50k ohm and I *think* that if they were 100k ohm, they would have much more reasonable taper.
The biggest reason the MT-604 sounds cleaner than the MT-602 - is that the balanced circuit cancels out much of the noise and distortion. The tubes and then the transistors - are in a push/pull arrangement, so this cancels out most of the device noise, and distortion drops much lower.
Hi Neil, I completely agree about the GE tubes. I ended up buying both those and the Voskhods and the GE are my pick. I can't recall what I liked most in the 601.
@@PassionforSound For the MT-601, as I mentioned, our pick is the Electro-Harmonix 6922 - it runs much cooler than the stock tube, and has more power, apparently. It sounds the best of any of the 6 or 8 we tried.
In fact, it was able to drive my son's Drop HiFiman HE-4XX headphones better than the MT-602 - on a particularly challenging deep bass dynamic, the MT-602 (with the GE tubes, no less) would shut down; while the MT-601 with the EH 6922 was fine.
The latter has a 24V power supply, as you know, and I think those internal heatsinks indicate the output transistors are beefier, and can output more current. So, the power ratings into 32 ohms for the Mt-601 vs MT-602 don't tell the whole story.
@@PassionforSound The two matched pairs of the 1UA brand Russian made 6J1P-EV tubes arrived today - and they sound *wonderful*! The soundstage opened up considerably, and there is space around things. It is clear and detailed, but in no way is it bright. Bass is better and more articulate, and feels deeper.
I will try a pair of these in the MT-602, at some point.
And I found a 100k ohm volume control potentiometer, that looks physically identical to the 50k ohm unit in these, so it looks like the volume taper can be made to be much better. The pot costs less than $2 - I am asking folks who know better than I about getting something that has very good channel balance, and that has good sound. I have a 34+ year old Audible Illusions Modulus 2C, that has wonderful pots that have "plastic" wipers, and are noise free with a lot of hard use.
Interesting idea to mod the pot. That could be a relatively cheap fix for those with the know-how. Alternatively, if using a preamp, bypassing the pot altogether could open up the sound even more!
Thanks for the tube tip too! 🙂
Just a question, where do you guys purchase Tubes like Mullard, Sylvania and Voshkod?
It was quite hard to determine which seller is the authentic one in Ebay.
I've not had any major issues with fake tubes on eBay. I would be careful about buying super expensive tubes like rare NOS tubes and brands like Psvane, but for affordable tubes like the Voskhods you should be fine
you must be careful but ebay is your playing field. i'm in england so there are tons of stocks of NOS mullard and the other phillips conglomerate tubes floating around here. funnily enough.. so far i've enjoyed the russian military tubes over that of the phillips conglomerate tubes. i have mullard ef95's and mullard m8100's (military designation) both are quite forwards in the upper end and lack the bass i like. very detailed but a bit too dry if you will. as PFS mentioned, you can't go wrong with a voskhod. thats cold war space program tube firm. my favourite are my 'wing'd c' svetlana's so far. nevs are almost exactly the same construction and sound extremely similar as the svet's. best thing to do on ebay for authenticity is observe closely the internals on the pictures and cross reference with the valve museum pictures and other old sources. different firms have extremely individual and original methods for construction. getter type, mica cut pattern, plate folding and jointing etc. start looking at them closely and you see the tricks. i was extremely careful when choosing to purchase my western electrics. they are rare and the microphone guys always snap them up. put it this way, you'll never get a fake mullard from a british seller or a fake reflector from a russian. millions and millions and millions of them were stock piled for the various wars. btw all mullards/phillips conglomerate have an etched code on the wasteline which designates the factory, type and batch date. enjoy xx
I liked the vintage segway. Just got some GoldPlanar GL20's and they should pair with the MT 604 nicely via the Fiio Q11 which is too good at it's job.
Nice!! Glad you liked the segue!
Nicely Done.
One thing stuck out as a No Go.
If you can get over the gain issues :)
Thanks
Yep. Couldn't stress that one enough 😉
Yep, have had mine for a month or so... i control by my matrix x - not an issue at all...
They're fantastic once you add a pre-amp!
What is better? Sound BlasterX G6 (stock) or SMSL M3 so they are same price for me? Can You help me please? Thanks
I'm really sorry, but I've tried neither ☹️
Thank you for the review! I recently bought the Aiyima T6 Pro (but I'm not using the included DAC) and was questioning myself if the MT-602 would have been a better choice due to its simplicity. The Aiyima has a very quiet popping after the tubes heat up and when turning off the device, but because it is so quiet (the sound from the actual switch is louder) this is no problem at all. And the volume range seems to be much better than with the xDuoo devices.
Maye you could review the Aiyima T6 Pro (or the identically constructed SUCA Audio Tube-T5C or Douk Audio Tube-T5C) at some point?
Thanks for letting me know, Thomas. It all depends on what I can get my hands on to review, but happy to keep my ears and eyes open for an opportunity to review the T6 Pro.
Back in the audiophile part of yt because I really want a good tube amp. Been loving the magni, but it's time to try something different and normal tube amps are so much more expensive.
You think this is worth it for the HD 6XX? I was thinking of the little dot mk2 bit it's twice the price.
I really like the MT-60x range and would expect good things with the HD6XX. Another option might be the TA-26 from xDuoo which I've got here now too. I haven't done any extended listening yet so can't say for sure. If you're not in a huge hurry, the review will be out late in the year. If you are in more of a hurry, the MT-60x are all good too and a little more versatile if you want to use low impedance gear in the future too
@@PassionforSound got you, thanks for replying! I think I'll get this for now.
I'm looking forward to the review of the TA-26. I was Also looking at the TA-10R as an option. So if I fancy up to it after your review I'll flip the my-602 and get it.
Seriously appreciate you, you've been a big parr of most pf my audio purchases!
Glad I could help, Andy! You really can't go wrong with the 602 at the price. With all the gear I've accumulated, I still have the 604 in rotation - they're just great fun
How is the TA-26 compare to the These? I own the the 604 and love it. But I’m looking for a comparable tube amp for my unbalanced headphones.
The TA-26 is quite different because it's a pure tube amp so the sound is a bit more spacious and holographic, but also a little less dynamic and punchy than the MT-60x amps.
Have you seen my TA-26 review?
I have. Looking for a good tube amp for my 1990’s, 990 and 880 600 ohm Beyerdynamics. Can’t use them on the 604. Trying to decide between the Darkvoice, TA-26, 602 or the little dot III. Do you have a personal preference? Thanks for the response and love your attention to detail in your reviews. Thanks!!
Using tubes for the voltage gain stage feeding into transistors for current gain is a very common way to use tubes.
That's true. Not everyone understands the different topologies though so I try to provide explanation to suit many levels of viewers
@@PassionforSound sure but it came across as something new and novel.
@@kyron42 to some people it is
Always enjoy your video's.. thank you... Great job, and love how you reply to people on your channel. question, Do i need to match the 4 tubes when i replace? Can they match 4? The guy below said the RCA 5654 are a good choice.. you think they make that much of a difference over what the unit ships with? New to tubes, so have no clue. Thanks.. JJ
Hi JJ, I'm not sure yet about the influence of tubes on the 604, but I've ordered some new tubes so I should know in a couple of weeks.
As for matching, you can buy 4 matched tubes, but you don't have to with the 604's separate volume controls. You can just buy 2 matched pairs and put the pair on the same side together (i.e. one pair on the left and one on the right). My recommendation if you're new to tubes is to not spend too much on tubes, at least early on. Get a sense of the different characteristics so you can decide what you're after before buying anything too exptic. Even then, cheaper tubes are sometimes preferable depending on your tastes.
@@PassionforSound As sombody else said.. i like the cut of you jib mate. Thank you.
My pleasure JJ
Hey quick question, would you say that the MT-604 is more “fun” than the SA-1? And is there any point in grabbing the 604 if I own a SA-1?
That's a really tricky question to answer. The SA-1 is the clearly superior amp. The 604 is a blast though so it is something I'd consider owning in addition to the SA-1, particularly given the cheap price. What I can't guarantee is that you'll agree.
@@PassionforSound thanks for your reply, you are a great reviewer and very much appreciated.
My pleasure 🙂
I suggest trying RCA 5654 tubes if you have the chance. They sound great on the 604 and also on the 601 (with an adapter).
Thanks for letting me know!
agreed! i have some of those aswell for my 602 xx
I have the 602 sitting in its box waiting to setup, I bought a second hand topping e30 for it as the preamp as I had seen these reviewed and knew about the way overboard gain. I have bought a Matched Pair 7 Pin GE JAN 5654W tubes to roll in it so can't wait to get some music thought it. I also have a zen can turning up next Wed and am planning on using this to see how how pre amp connecting it in sounds although the can is a slightly warm sounding amp already, be interesting to see if xbass or xduoo pre amping sound with my 6xx's. When you said it was driving the Verum easily enough, do you just mean in terms of voltage to volume or was the power enough to unleash some of the hidden Gems?I am down to Verum or Sundara as my first open back plannar. If I really like the x02 I may get the 04 at a future date and just use them both without having to fiddle around with he 604 to turn it into single ended where don't have a double ended choice.
Sounds like you're ready for some fun!
The Verum 1 needs very little power to drive so you'll have no issues with that. The 602 also has plenty of power for the Sundaras so whichever way you go, you'll be fine. Depending on your timeline, I've got a comparison of the Verum 1, Sivga P-2, Sundara and Monolith M1060 V2 coming quite soon.
@@PassionforSound it's an important purchase I'll wait, I as you can see have some things to keep me busy 😁, that list of hp's sounds like u have been bugging my laptop as so many have been on my list as candidates. Regarding the Verum I have now watched/read reviews that say the Verum will sou d great out of a lower pocket poker device, really good out of the Topping 30 stack but the "hidden depths won't before unearthed untill you use something of the ilk of the Topping 50 pro. As I u derstand it so do the 6 hu dried series senns the hifiman sundara et and so on. So my interest wou,d be with a topping 30 stack or equivalent schitt or ifi stack, which is the better headphones? Or after around the e/l30, is the rest wallet guilt placebo as I call it 😁
I'll do my best to answer your questions in detail as part of my review because they're exactly the sorts of questions that other people will want to know too.
One thing I would say is to be wary of anyone telling you that you need lots of power for these headphones, particularly the Verum 1. There's a common myth about planars sounding better with more power, but unless it's something crazy like an HE6 or Susvara, the reality is that any decent headphone amp will have sufficient power. What's really happening (based on my experiences) is one of few things or a combo of many: (1) the more powerful amps are often higher quality so the sound seems better, (2) more power may result in slightly louder listening levels which sound more punchy and dynamic just due to even a small increase in sound pressure and/or (3) the sound is different from one amp to the next and is assumed to be better because it is expected as a result of this belief that more power equals better sound.
The Sundara is the most difficult of the headphones in that list and they can still be sufficiently driven by simple smartphone dongle type DACs so don't worry about power levels so much as sound quality. Personally, I'd be going for an Asgard 3 regardless of which headphone you choose. It's better than any equivalently priced Topping, SMSL or other Chinese amp I've tried. Pair that up with a Topping E30 or a Schiit Modi or similar and you're in for a great listen.
I would really like to get good budget TUBE amp. I have few nos E88CC tubes . What do you think would the best budget amp to get ?
I really like the xDuoo TA-26S and MT-60x range. However, none of those will use the E88CC. I'm not sure which budget amps use E88CC - Little Dot perhaps?
@@PassionforSound Thank you for help and opinion ! I try to find one. Used market option would be best for me and for enviroment 👌
How would the xduoo mt602 compare with schii vali2+? It would be really great if you do a review if get a chance to get one in. Thank you
I'm yet to try the Vali. I'm keen to if/when I get the chance though
Nice review as always. I think the xduoo mt 604 is the only balanced tube amp under 200$ but you are right about the gain issue as other reviewers have mentioned. Good option to use with a HD 6xx probably. Hey btw isn't the giveaway over?
Bugger! Yes it is. It's so difficult to track the timing of these things when I'm producing videos in advance. I have to grab time when I can so I sometimes don't know exactly when I'll get to something like this giveaway (i.e. going through all responses to make a decision). That was an error on my part.
@@PassionforSound It is ok
The good news is that if anyone comes up with a great idea, I'll still reward the idea if I can use it 🙂
@@PassionforSound I suppose you could consider my Idea of "Always Neutral" with a graph for a neutral frequency response, "Vocal Valhalla" with a mid forward frequency response and "warm and also hot"(since reviewers describe more bass and more treble using warm and hot) for a v-shaped frequency response, once more . Sorry for bothering you.
No bother at all. I like the idea. I probably won't go with that one at the moment because I'm already workshopping a second idea, but I DO appreciate you sharing this one.
At what volume level does the MT-604 sound open up? 30% or 50% on its volume dial. The problem with a high gain amp is it's very hard to set the volume where the sound would not be too loud or too muted to drive the headphone. I intend to pair it with Topping E50.
I don't find a specific volume changes the character of the amp, but it's a good idea to run it with some kind of pre-amp to get reasonable volume range out of it
@@PassionforSound Thanks for the tip. I read that Topping E50 default mode has preamp. I have already bought them waiting for delivery.
The E50 will be perfect with the MT-604!
Hi i have AKG K 240 headphones.I want improved resolution and more detail.Which one should i go for MT-602,or Topping L30 or ifi Zen DAC?
Hi Raju, I haven't heard the Zen DAC, but of the other two, the L30 is the better choice. Tubes are great, but they'll rarely match an equivalent solid state amp for maximum detail.
@@PassionforSound Thank you and you should try IFI ZEN DAC and post a review as many people here have given rave reviews about it
No problems, Raju. I'm in discussions now with some of my patrons about it... Stay tuned...
I've tube rolled the 602 with the Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV, GE JAN5654W, and M8100 CV4010 5654 EF95 MULLARD, still waiting on the 6ak5 sylvania 1953 to turn up ! voshkod are the brightest, mullard the warmest/brassiest, and the GE in-between, one thing I've found is how hard it is to remove the tubes due to how low they are sunken not much tube to get a grip on, i found to laughable that the stock tubes were not even the same brand (so much for being matched) its got heaps of power, a high low gain switch would have been great, i mainly got it for planners(little dot 2 made the bass all wonky) and hay it used the same tubes as little dot 2, overall a good value little amp (i like to tinker with cheaper gear keeps me amused ) thanks for your informative reviews, i know its not easy tube rolling and comparing different tubes, that's why i have ordered another 602 so i can a/b test them better.
Thanks for sharing your tube experiences, Steve. Very helpful! I just ordered some Voskhods. Hopefully they're not too bright ☹️
Just a question, where do you guys purchase Tubes like Mullard, Sylvania and Voshkod?
It was quite hard to determine which seller is the authentic one in Ebay.
@@terrykim7815 try langrex on ebay and yen audio on ebay also etsy type 6j1p.also amazon have some
@@chefsteve8381 Thanks!
@@terrykim7815 This looks like an interesting seller. www.ebay.ca/itm/283937330224
I don’t hear the buzzing sound you speak of but I’ve noticed that I will hear a repetitive buzzing interference when my iPhone is near my USB charger or sometimes if I have the iPhone on a wireless charger, this is not a continuous sound and only occurs for a minute it two then goes away for many minutes.
This interference is quite low in volume and mostly is only noticeable in quite sections of the music or when silence is playing.
If I move the iPhone away, so there is some distance between these devices and the phone, I hear no interference at all.
Thanks for letting us know Paul. I know the sound you mean so it's good for people to be aware of that. What I described is a different noise so I'm guessing it must be a random quality control variance which is to be expected at this level of product in my experience.
yeah i mentioned in my comment above that mine too is black as night at the listening level. i only got noise with the stock tubes. using NOS tubes now, my 602 is impressively quiet. xx
Thanks for sharing, HA
I never bought a stand alone headphone amp other than the USB type c dongle type used with my handphone. Ordered this MT-602 at 65 usd... Even though I never had any experience with dedicated headphone amp, at this price what the heck... Just buy it 😂. Waiting for it to arrive
I think you're in for an experience. Being a hybrid tube amp it may not sound as clean as a solid state device like your dongle, but it should bring some fun and a new sonic experience. Hope you love it!
@@PassionforSound yeah Im hoping that... If I want to revert back to clean sound, just use the dongle then. And I'm also readying for the headroom in terms of the amp power. Maybe in the future I will buy a higher ohm cans
Would love it you could compare these to the Xduoo TA-26 ~ Darkvoice 336
I sold the Darkvoice, but the TA-26 has just arrived so I'll likely compare it to the 602 and/or 604
Hi, do you or anyone else have experience with 604 driving the HD800S. I am thinking about getting the 604 for HD800s for classical music. Thanks
I haven't tried the combo directly, but I see no reason why it wouldn't sound great.
@@PassionforSound thank you.
Hi Lachlan! I received the Sundara's a week ago and decided to try also the Ananda since Amazon is now offering until January 22nd on returns. The Mt-604 really is intriguing me with the very positive reviews i have seen on it thus far. I have an Ifi Zen Dac that has a balanced 4.4mm out on the back. I already have the 4.4mm cable to dual XLR cable so i am all set to go. My question is. How do tubes or an amp of this variety work on the Sundara and Ananda? I know many people have outstanding results with some dynamic driver headphones but wasn't sure if the 604 would be a good fit with the Hifiman's mentioned? BTW....the Sundara's are outstanding and a definite step up from the 400SE that i was communicating with you about a few days ago. Looking forward to spending some time with the Ananda now for sure! Thanks!
Oh and i forgot to mention (if you are not familiar) that the Ifi Zen Dac has it's own volume control. So in theory, i could set and forget (hopefully not bump to ungodly levels) the 604's volume controls and control the overall volume from the Zen Dac. Just watched "Cheapaudioman"s review of the unit. He also is running out of the front 4.4out to another amplifier to go to speakers. He said he is having spectacular results with that. Like that versatility for sure. Just need to make sure it would be a decent match with the Hifiman's before taking the plunge.
Hi Craig, the 604 is great with any and all headphones. Despite what you hear, planars are actually more versatile when it comes to amp options because they're not affected by output impedance in the same way as dynamic headphones. That said, the 604 is also a hybrid tube amp so it behaves more like a solid state amp with added tubyness.
I'd say go for it!
@@PassionforSound Thank you kind sir! :) Going for it
Excellent! I hope you love it 🙂
@@PassionforSound Received the 604 yesterday and have been running it for around 12 hours now. I absolutely LOVE this thing thus far. Sounds phenomenal.
personally, I would never change those dual volume pots. I have a slight imbalance in my one ear and this is a god send. Also not all recordings are balanced all that well and this solves that. Also really love the feel of the pots. Feels very premium, Was a bit concerned that they would be loose feeling but they have a very nice easy to ride feel to them. Main volume will be from the Zen Dac and i can fine tune whatever i need from the 604. Happy camper! Also the Sundara's sound amazing on them! Ananda's are here also and need to be fully broken in still. They sound incredible as well. More details are coming through after playing after letting the unit play over night. Was a little soft sounding out of the box but still sounded good. Sounding better to me now. HAPPY! Cheers mate! :)
what dac do you suggest of 604?
I'd probably look at something like the SMSL SU-8s or maybe a Topping DX5 to give you a solid state and tube option
Have you tried Little Dot MK II which cost about the same price as MT-604?
No, I haven't tried that one. At least not for a long time
@@PassionforSound What about Schiit Vali 2? +?
Another I've not yet tried - sorry!
Which headphone amp should I buy: Xduoo TA-26 or xduoo mt 604?
They're very different beasts. The TA-26 has high output impedance so it won't play well with lower impedance headphones, but it nice with 250+ ohm options.
The 604 is more versatile, but may not give as much tube flavour (depending on the tubes) due to the solid state output stage.
@@PassionforSound Thank you very much for your immediate response. I'm putting together a headset. I just bought HiFiMAN Sundara, in few days hopefully I will receive a Geshelli J2 DAC in a beautiful wooden case and the last piece is an amplifier. All the equipment is based mostly on your reviews, so I'm curious which amp you will recommend to match these two pieces.In my speaker system at home I use the amazing Cayin MT-35 S so I'm very familiar with tube sound.
For the Sundara I'd go with the MT-604
Aside from the stock tubes, can you tell the difference between tubes from different tubes? I ask because I've tube-rolled on a Loxjie p20 and couldn't tell a difference. I also ask because I've bought a 604 and am reluctant to tube-roll on that based on experience on the p20 and everyone I've watched on youtube who claimed a difference offer only anecdotal evidence. There is a youtuber who did a video on tube-rolling on guitar amps and it produced no discernible difference. Headphone amps may be different, but is there any AB testing evidence you could direct me to when it comes to objective tube-rolling evidence? I mean no disrespect, by asking this, but I would greatly appreciate it as it would save me money.
My experience with the 604 is that different tubes (Voskhod, GE and the stock tubes) all have slightly different sounds, but the differences aren't massive and it's an amp is gladly use without tube rolling.
There's no doubt that tubes do make a difference because they're doing the key amplification process of the input signal in an amp like this. I have also heard differences from tubes in headphone amps, but I don't have any resources that prove the differences - sorry
@@PassionforSound I appreciate your response, thank you!
I scooped up the 602 and rolled to a matched pair of Riverstone 5654w equivalents. Really, really enjoy the sound paired with my dynamics. The Sennheiser HD 599 especially, which I never used for music (gaming can) but instantly came alive on the 602. None of the Planars I used on them sounded preferable to solid state unfortunately. The lack of control, even with the cleaner more spacious 5654Ws, is too noticeable. If you have high(er) impedance dynamics these seem like easy/dirty instant fun. I've really enjoyed my listening sessions. I'm now using the 602 as a sometimes Pre for a Zen Can and it's a great fit thus far with my low impedance dynamics. Thanks for the recommend, great video comparison. I think I'd rather go Asgard 3 as well over the 604, just less of a hassle and is likely to work better for a range of headphones to justify the cost difference.
Do yourself a favor and replace the GE tubes with a matched pair of Voskhod 6zh1p-ev Driver Tubes. Thank me later.
@@thatchinaboi1 They're in my cart, so will do!
The MT-602 is great as a hybrid tube preamp for speakers. I much prefer the Little Dot Mk2 Tube Amp for headphones and dislike them for speakers. IMHO hybrid tube preamps are great for speakers and not great as a headphone amp.
@@dasninjastix Buy yourself an extra pair. They are simply the best I have tried.
Thanks for the discussion, folks. I've just ordered 6x Voskhods to compare the 602 & 604 one more time before I sell the 602 (I think)
Thinking of getting MT-603 (tube pre only) and out to Soloist. Wondering if the 601 work well with Soloist?
Also, the 604 doesn't have pre out, or does it?
Oh wait, just realized that 601 and 603 only look similar, they use different tubes.
604 doesn't have pre-out. If you're only after a single output, I'd got with the 601 or 602 for versatility. 603 is better for its ability to switch inputs or outputs (I haven't checked which one)
Is there a chance that you will review the focal clear mg?
Definitely there's a chance. I just have to get my hands on a pair
Will tubes make my mest mk2 iems sound better?
That's a very personal preference thing. It depends on what you're wanting more of/less of from the Mests
@@PassionforSound i was actually watching your MESTmk2. I did listen to the ‘Sinking soon’ track that you mentioned, where you felt the Mandolin in the distance in the stage, where as the bass texture near the zygoma of the face. i do understand what you are saying. But imo they seem to be two different instruments.
One is the mandolin and the Texture seems to be Of a Bass instrument.
Those two sounds alternate sometimes.. making me think they (may be) two separate instruments.
Would love it if you take a look at it, at your convenience.
Again, appreciate your content.
I don't own the Mest Mk2 so I can't test it because I'd need to hear again exactly which sounds seemed separated unnaturally to me
Can hipdac2 connect to mt604 as dac
Yes. You could get a 4.4mm to twin 3-pin XLR and run from the balanced headphone output on the Hip DAC 2 into the MT604
Lachlan, will you be reviewing the XDuoo TA-26 and 30?
I'm planning to review the TA-26. Not sure about the 30
@@PassionforSound, oh great! I shall hold on my purchase of a tube amp for now. See if you can get the TA-20 and TA-10R too?
@@PassionforSound, you may have already guessed it, I’ve bought the xduoo TA-26 and just had 2 hours on it. I’ve always wanted the Darkvoice but the quality issues scared me. It really made my HD650 come alive. The Clear MG now sounds smoother and I am still on stock Tubes. However, there’s a hissing noise and distortion at high volume when I first turned it on to try with both my planers yesterday, Sundara and Arya. Today, the noise is gone and the distortion is reduced so I hope after running it in that it’ll work good. I messaged the seller and they told me it’s normal with tubes amps but I don’t buy that so I’m going to email xduoo and see what their response is.
What you've described does sound like normal tube noise so I wouldn't worry if it's gone away and stayed gone.
I've done some early listening with the TA-26 and think it's a much better product that the Darkvoice so you've chosen well!
@@PassionforSound, it’s gotten better today, the noise is reduced significantly and the distortion is lessened. I read that some said to run it in for more hours. These tube issues only happen with my 2 planars. Now reading up on tubes to decide what tubes to get to replace the 6N8P and 6N5P but it’s confusing. I don’t intend to get a bunch of them, just maybe 1-2 replacement of each. Thanks for affirming the choice between DV and this. Do you have recommendations on the tubes to roll with?
how do i get that t shirt?
There should be a link to the store directly below the video or you can get it here: shop.spreadshirt.com.au/passion-for-sound/?YT-ACRcEUrMhGFdiyyePu4aHzHEXCZDg-eUEtt3M3G4MhNDoNF4J2EBOXXZg1WL5-__M9pOpFiTWHwanEMPjDTV13pV84yTRT9GVb-vkaaQVG2QrOzaDp5ddv2uPISKZ-d9D1h000xYXHPP-IcrgwPmoYQq54MdSYD-vtLCsVVtNo7MNMydwMQ%3D
Anyone has an impression of the xduoo MT603? It's a preamp.
I haven't tried that one
You mean by sounding think and congested? Do they not have a flat frequency response?
I don't understand what you're saying/asking
@@PassionforSound people use all sorts of terms and I have no idea what it means. Don't know what think means. I don't know what congested means. How about producing some audio samples to demonstrate all these terminology that you use. I'm sure the vast majority of people have no idea what they mean.
Thanks - I understand now. The words I used were "thick and congested". They're not specifically audiophile terms and it's hard to define every descriptive term I'm likely to use because it is based just on how I best think I can describe what I hear.
In this case, by "thick and congested", I'm referring to when sound is lacking in a sense of space and all of the individual instruments / sounds are squashed together and seem crowded and hard to separate.
@@PassionforSound thanks. I know what that sounds like. It might be helpful to people to explain it that way. Or even better have a definitions page.
Some people use euphoric. You use something like that. I'm not really sure what that is but I guess it's the feeling that you want to just keep listing and it's hard to turn it off.
Yes, euphonic is the term. I actually put an on-screen definition of euphonic either in this video or one coming soon - I can't recall
New to your channel. Referenced from Randy the Cheapaudioman. I am very interested in budget tube amps for headphones and as preamps. Will search your channel but if you read this and have any suggestions, please let me know? Thank you. (Other than the amps you have shown here. These are high on my list but I am always open to learning more)
Welcome! At present, the MT-60x range would be my top recommendation. I've also got the xDuoo TA-26 coming up, but can't recall if it has a preamp output or just a pass-through
@@PassionforSound thank you
I have the new schiit vali 2+ and I'm curious how MT-602 compares with it
Very curious about this as well
@@yogiwp_ btw I love my vali 2+ it's warm and tubey ("hybrid" tubey not full OTL-tubey). I heard 602 is a bit more clear and V shaped
I'm yet to hear the Vali 2+ so I can't help just yet - sorry!
@@SuperSeltzer Glad to hear that. Actually I prefer Schiit's build and looks and Vali seem to have proper protections/muting.
@@PassionforSound Vali 2+ is roughly thrice the price of the 601 where I am and auditions are not possible. Would be great to know what you think of the Vali 2+ soon as it’s on my shopping list
Would these be good to drive a Hifiman he6se v2?
I think you can do better and the 601/602 will struggle for power
Would you say the 604 sounds better than the darkvoice?
They're very different, but I personally prefer the 604 straight out of the box compared to the Darkvoice straight out of the box.
@@PassionforSound when you still recommend to tube swap on the 604
No, I said the 604 was great without the swapping. The 601 needs a swap.
@@PassionforSound I meant to say would you haha sorry for the autocorrect
All good. I've bought some tubes for some tube rolling on the 604, but it's really great straight from the factory.
Roll on with we 403b (1956) super rare..or mullard m81000 or russians 95e..etc..audiophilers ..peace
🎶
My 602 doesn't make any noise when I turn it off... it just quits.
Hmmmm... Interesting. Perhaps either tube variation or some quality control slip ups then...
With both sets of tubes I have (stock and GE) there's a pretty thick pop powering off the amp. After the third or fourth time I just decided to take my headphones off my head before powering off the amp.
Sounds like quality control then. Thanks, Ninja
@@PassionforSound i was always taught to power the amp up first then plug in, then remove headphones before powering down i get no snap, crackle or pops with the 602 only when eating rice bubbles ! lol.
That's a good practice. I guess you should be careful about removing headphones before eating rice bubbles too 😉
Are you on Twitter??
Not actively. I'm @lachlanfennen but I rarely use it. I'm more active on Instagram.
@@PassionforSound cool, Carminedesanto2 look me up 😎
Terrible review. You omitted testing and reviewing the first 2 units as preamps for speakers. I have the MT-602 matched with a pair of Voskhod 6zh1p-ev Driver Tubes for my living room speaker system. The real advantage of tubes is that they give you holographic imaging and you can't get holographic imaging on headphones (due to no HRTF). I would not use any of these units as a headphone amp for the reasons you listed in your review. I recommend the Little Dot Mk2 for headphones. The gain switches allow for a lot of versatility in terms of IEMs and harder to drive headphones.
There's no need to be rude about it. I clearly state in my intro that this is a headphone focussed channel with no speaker content.
@@PassionforSound I apologize for not remembering that this is a strictly headphone based review channel. Maybe you should remind people of that in your review.
@@thatchinaboi1 it’s clearly said at the beginning of the video, may be you should watch and listen a bit better
@@thatchinaboi1 he clearly states this is a headphone focused channel in the intro to every review.....thats why us headphone fans are huge fans of this channel
That's not the main use case for these, therefore to call it a terrible review just based on that omission of "quality"(he does say you can use it as volume control on speakers) isn't fair.
And little dot mk2 for iems? Are you joking? An OTL design like that has very high output impedance (50ohms or more) , and 99.9% of iems need very low OI. All my iems sound like hot garbage on the MK3