Power Queen 190AH LiFePO4 150A BMS Lithium Battery Review
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- The Professor reviews the 190AH 2432wh LFP drop in replacement lithium battery from Power Queen with 150 Amp BMS at a discount price. POWER QUEEN 190AH gohobo.io/pq190 use code TECH3. CANADIANS: gohobo.io/pqca...
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POWER QUEEN 190AH: Use this link gohobo.io/pq190 (special offer expired) use code TECH3
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Thanks Hobo got me 4 !
If you're in app you have to go to the third page promo code section for the promo code to take effect
664.49 not a bad price. They also have a 200Ah battery dats a lot of power. A couple of the 190Ah battery would make a nice DIY system
@@mannyfragoza9652 It's $605 ...
@@HOBOTECH ohhhhhh my bad sorry Hobo
Seriously, when I started looking at home backup solutions a year ago and went with all-in-one "sogens", mostly Bluetti products, I got some good equipment but looking at what I see now and know now, if I had it to do over again I'd probably get 4-6 of these things as the backbone of my system rather than the all-in-ones. I don't really have buyers remorse, since they are serving me well, but if I need to expand my power or refresh in a few years, I have a better idea where I want to go. Hopefully these things will continue to get better and cheaper as the years go by!
Don't regret your decisions. Things change, stuff becomes obsolete. Use it until it dies or doesn't do what you need it to.
I really like the humor in your videos. And this thing is a steal for 190AH. I was originally dead set on SOK but their 100AH is this price.
Any plans to document your homesteading power situation once it’s completed in a video(s)? It would be cool to see all the accumulation of gear in a real world, day to day useage scenario
I have been recording video, yes.
It out there, have a look.... 😫
I hope you do more of these. Assembled systems are superior in capacity and cost less than all in one systems. It’s the direction I’m going.
True if over 1000W or so.
Bellow that, you can't beat "solar generators".
Try building a Bluetti EB3A 600W for ~ $200
You can also repair your own system. The components are easily accessible and available for purchase for the diy setups. Like other person said, under a 1000wh, probably better off with a pre built sogen....and here I am with nothing because I can't decide lol
It's almost scary how quickly LiFePO4 batteries are progressing. I have 2 in the bed of my truck for camping in a roof top tent, another in the boat for my electronics, and am just waiting a bit to replace the 2 that my trolling motor needs.
In some ways, I kind of hate buying because it's never very long before something newer, better, cheaper comes along.
Thanks for the review and yet another badass LiFePO4 option!
It's a good news/bad news thing. Bad because we spent so much more for something that was not as good or as powerful as we could get now, but good in terms of anticipating how much better and more powerful these things will be the next time it's time to blow a few grand on a refresh.
👍 I dropped in a 100 AH in my JT for a house battery a few months ago replacing the 2 36 AH I had parallel and swapped up from 100w panel to two 100w panels but I'm finding them to be subpar in performance.
When running a 48v system, a large 48v server rack battery is still generally better even if it is more expensive. When running 12v batteries in series, when one disconnects when full, the other batteries in the string may not be full yet. Properly sized copper cable and terminals are expensive which is not accounted when connecting a bunch of 12v batteries. Also, you get BMS communication in the rack mount batteries which is useful when managing a large battery bank.
Rack mount is better but those problems you've mentioned are easily avoided
If installing in a camper and will be doing alternator charging a DC to DC charger is really needed. The lower internal resistance of Lithium compared to lead acid can fry your alternator if the battery is significantly discharged.
I can say, this is the way to go. I built some 100 amp hour batteries and paid more than this price. batteries like this did not really exist at the time. 6 months later and the market is flooded with cheep batteries that have cells that actually match and that is HUGE. I spent weeks building these batteries band they suck. If I got these, i would have double the capacity and weeks of my wasted time . Although, I did get WELL educated on the how's and why's ,of lithium batteries.
Hello Hobo！Thank you so much for your excellent video! Thank you very much for your affirmation of the Power Queen LiFePO4 Battery!
You must be our greatest support and the driving force for our continued progress!
Dear customers and friends! The stock of the Power Queen 190Ah LiFePO4 Battery has been adjusted and is back on sale!
Thank you so much for your support!
Glad to see you branching out ... You are one of my go-to solar generator reviewers. Next up all in one off grid, grid tie inverter charger reviews. You definitely have a style paired with tech specs that make watching a treat.
Thanks. I had a poll recently it seems folks want more variety.
Added to my collection! Impressive output!
Thank you for explaining the "jumpstart" charging of lifepo4 batteris. Really helped me troubleshooting.
This was the best review you every did. I love the sarcasm towards know-it-all keyboard commandos. As well as the reference to wondering if the human existence will continue. 😋 😊 🤣
Thank you HOBOTECH I have been waiting for prices to come down on a quality battery. I just ordered the 100AH battery.
DOh, living in the UK and we still crap with battery purchase options. Good video fella
Great deal. Just got my 200ah Chins with 200a BMS. I would have loved to get 2 of these for a little more and run parallel with the option to go 24v in the future.
There are two spots for promo code it's the second one third page in if you're on a cell phone just keep on clicking through until it shows the code has taken effect
HAHAH! At timestamp 4.27 so freaking funny, I fell out of my chair. This is why I love HOBOTECH!
I just snagged this battery for $496 direct from Power Queen. Killer deal!
But hobo, I can get a … just kidding man. Love your videos, super informative. Thank you!
Looks like my orders went through. Thanks Hobotech! Saved me a couple tanks of gas!
Absolutely love your videos, I really do. I just can't wrap my head around paying almost $10,000, not including an inverter/etc, to keep a home powered for 1 day. Then adding more $$$ solar to offset. Holy hell y'all got some expensive power needs.
Americans love to cool and their their entire McMansions all through the year. If you've got a small house, small family, apartment, or european house your power needs shouldn't be as high.
Not just Americans lol
@@chrispekel5709 not just Americans lol.
@@enki2gold us Australians are the same. So many people with 2 in the house running massive solar and battery setups that barely ever get down to 80%
Great test and video. Thanks.
I used the jump start trick on my uncles mobility chair because the Lithium batteries went to 0%, I used a regular car battery charger to induce 12v 12 amp.
Thanks for the review Hobo. This might be the battery. But I might go for the 100AH ones. Get two and they will fit I’m my battery box I think. You know what I drive and going for. Need to check out the sizes though. 💥💥👍🎩
I like your "test to destruction " attitude
Thanks so much for your great reviews.. just bought one for my camper....
Great video! Added to my collection!
So during the section where you are talking about RV people's concerns, I agree that the chargers in most RV's are sufficient, especially if you don't HAVE to use 100% of every AH available, which most people never will. My question is the alternator charging, do you think I need a special current limiter to prevent the load on the alternator being excessive?
Yes! Most alternators can’t deliver maximum amps for more than an hour without overheating.
I could use about 8 of these, to start with for my off grid house! ,. If they can be series/parallel for 24v, I been thinking about going 48v, 600amps at 48v, that's a ton of power! I have 6,120ah 24v liion batts now, but would like to go to LiFePo eventually, maybe use both, one as backup!
Thanks very much! I ordered on, using your code.
Another great video reviewing a great product thanks as always!!!!
The only issue with your charging statement is that most lead acid battery chargers have an absorption and equalization stage, which some LFE battery manufactures don't recommend using. My AmpreTime 200Ah PLUS manual says to not use the equalization stage on my solar charge controller or via a battery charger. Honestly, these BMS systems are smart enough these days and if you are using them every day, you'll never run into this issue, but it's still worth noting. Will it hurt the battery in the long run? Maybe. But by the time it happens, it will be time to replace it probably anyway.
Every BMS I've used has shut down if the voltage spikes too high (equalization causes this) but what good is it if they shut down until reconnect every time you go through the charge cycle? Pain in the ass. You won't damage the BMS however
I saw on another reviewers sight this brand adapted to help out power on a large AC200P. Since your not afraid to push the limits why not hook this up to say the likes of the GoLabs 300 or other small generators…maybe even the EB3A and see just how much this could be viable for those only using such small solar generators.You probably already have the equipment to “try it” Professor so?
Also you mentioned charging with a regular lead acid charger is possible. Looking forward to seeing that BUT…what if the charger pumps out like 15.2 volts to charge lead acid,could it still work?
This is a good battery. Thanks again for all you do.
Great review! You changed my mind.
That's a bad ass battery!
Great video, good to see those in the know showing folks the performance and cost advantages of smart lithium drop-ins. That said, how about a video on some quality/cost effective lithium drop-ins that feature low-temp heaters, for those further North(?)
Hoping that you can get your hands on one of the New Drop-In 12V batteries from Docan Power. They are well known distributors of Quality LifePO4 cells, now they are jumping in to the drop in segment. Specs are impressive. No online Reviews yet. I bet that Amy would send you one … 👍🏼
I just picked up the 190 ah. Nice. Good prices on thier other stuff as well.
Great video with a lot of good points to think about. Time to start saving my Pennie’s again.
I thought I had a handle on these types of batteries....but just to clarify. I am thinking of useing one of these or similar as a secondary battery in a pickup. Primarily for camping out of the back in a simple camper shell. Powering lights, charging phone/tablet, maybe powering a fridge/freezer/cooler.
but I thought I needed one of those DCDC converters that like the Redarc BCDC or Renogy or similar. But is seems that I could just go putting an isolator between my starting battery and this so long as my alternator puts out > 14.4V. Is that correct?
yeah, I know that I won't get all the fancy stuff that comes long with them like bluetooth connectivity that tells me how much juice I have left. But I'm not living out of my truck and I'd likely be moving every couple days.
Any guidance you can provide would be great. Thanks much.
Haven't watched your vids for a while..
Hobotech, you've come a long way partner!!!
How about taking the battery apart, so we can see the build quality?
Thanks it would be good to see a video on how to use this as a supplement to Bluetti, I know you mentioned it but I’m visual
I bought three of these just before they discontinued this model.
Great review!
So, Tom, you are saying I can just drop-in a LiFePo battery on the tongue of my Aliner (where the deep-cycle lead acid battery is) and I DON'T need a DC to DC charger between my tow vehicle's alternator and the LiFePo?! Oh, yes, please make a video about this!
I'd realty like to know this too! My camper van has a lead acid battery and charges from the alternator when driving. How will this battery know not to suck too many amps out of the alternator? Is it really that smart? If yes then I think a Power Queen is going in my van :)
@@ricksteruk I charge a Lithium powerpack off of my alternator often. It is not as fast as 110v charging, but I see an input of a little less than 500w, while running the vehicle. One thing about lithium charging, it will soak up the power. In fact, as to your question, I have heard that this can overheat an alternator - but I suspect that would only be the case if idling for a long time without air flow around the alternator. I would be cautious about running headlights and simultaneously charging, the combined draw might cause problems..
15:24 Grasshopper
Lithium ions all have their charging curves.
You can't pump current into a drained battery like you can with lead acid.
It has to charge gingerly at first, then switch to CC mode, and then to CV for top off. Check the manufacturer's charging curve.
Don't expect more than 1000 cycles if you don't comply with charging currents and voltages published by the manufacturer.
I would have to see the spec sheet on those cells, which may very well be rated for a sustained output in excess of 1C, but if not, that BMS failed the output test miserably! I would want the BMS to cut output of more than 190 amps after just 3 or 4 seconds, not 3 plus minutes! If you can smell heat shrink melting, that's a BAD thing. The price is excellent and I agree they must be pretty good cells (presuming that didn't damage them) to put out that much current. The price on this stuff really is dropping. I built two 100ah batteries from component cells just a couple of years ago and the cost was $1,100 (US supply for the cells). I agree that buying lead-acid/AGM for any kind of deep-cycle need just doesn't make "cents" with the price of today's LiFePO4 options. However, there is a BIG caveat on your assertion that a common lead-acid charger can be used for these newer technology batteries, and that is with regard to float charging. Lead acid batteries more or less require it and it will cause degradation in LiFePO4 cells. That's the only reason to get a dedicated "smart" charger with a lithium or LiFePO4 setting...and there's really no good reason NOT to.
Spot on. BMS should have shutdown MUCH sooner.
@Danang Alta - Aren't you wondering why a 150A BMS was allowing so much more than that through the wires in the first place?! :O
@Danang Alta it depends on the insulation rating of the wire. Technically 200 degree C 4AWG can handle 200A continuous, although you'd need 200 degree C rated terminals and connections also.
This battery has a strong BMS to begin with and it is common for the higher end ones to allow double the amps for a period of time for startup loads. This didn't "fail" because it safely shut down and started back up as soon as it cooled off. I should have actually pushed it over 300A to get it to shut off sooner.
The reason for my cables "melting" is because they are under sized for the load. They are just for testing and not for long term use. I need something flexible for the table and that's what I had.
@@HOBOTECH - I have used a lot of batteries, configured a lot of BMS units, and watched a LOT of battery tests and tear-downs. None of them allowed double the rated BMS output for 3 minutes...3 seconds, maybe. I'm not saying that was too much for the cells, but in your own test setup you used wire appropriate for 150 amps...the BMS should not have allowed 300 amps for as long as it did. We will just have to disagree on this, but in the eyes of many experienced battery geeks...that BMS failed, big time. If you had a 200 amp ANL fuse in that positive line (a very prudent design choice) it would have popped for sure, and that indicates a failing in the BMS output.
Was the name POWER KING already taken?
Just recently found your channel and have watched many of your videos. Outstanding! Practical side + technical side. Excellent. Have a question. I live in a condo and solar is not an option. For backup I currently have a transfer switch and P3000 Inverter generator. I want to get the Delta Pro. Can I charge the ecoflow with my P3000? Thank you sir!
I'm watch these thinking, "I wonder if I can get this to work in my future Aptera" 🤔😀
Great job on the video!
Any progress videos about the total home solar install? Great videos. Eating them up for hours.
I have to come up with a plan for my mobile home. I can't depend on PG&E. They shut down often nowadays.
Figure out your critical loads... fridge/freezer, a few lights, CPAP machine? Maybe occasional microwave use. PG&E was out for 3 days here in August 2020. We did OK with 10,000 watt hours (800amp hours) of lithium batteries with 3000 watt inverter. No AC. That really burns up power. We used 55 watt box fans to be reasonably cool.
You have THE bottle!!!
Glad I found you🙃🙃🙃AWESOME CHANNEL👍👍👍
why is it so hard for these firms to do decent manuals? Just the perception of quality value of it is tremendous.
Couple of bucks for your hard work!
Vantastic video. Thanks much!
I have tried to use these batteries as extra backup power for my AC200 and have had no luck. If you use the PV solar charge port it starts out charging at 400 watts but then within 10 minutes is down to a 15 watt trickle charge and then after another 15 minutes stops all together. I have also used the DC charge enhancer which will charge the AC200 at a rate of 400 watts, but for whatever reason you will only get about 30% of the batteries full capacity. I have tried for months to figure this out and cannot. I also have had others tell me they have the same problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
The bluettie has an mppt charge controller. The basic principle of operation is that, using algorithms it is constantly changing voltage looking for the best current. This makes it perfect for solar which is variable voltage (once rated voltage is reached) and helps get the most current on a cloudy day. This unfortunately conflicts with steady output voltages more so ones with bms as the bms is trying to also adjust itself. If you watch bluettie solar input you will cycle between a high low and medium voltage continuously. Since a fixed voltage battery will never have more current at a higher voltage it keeps trending down. (2 steps back one step forward kinda thing) As for the adaptor the minimum Input voltage is 12volts. It’s possible the battery is going below 12 volts as it discharges causing it to shut off early. This would not surprise me as 400 watts is a lot of amps to be pulling from the 12v batteries which might lower the voltage as it gets lower. (Lots of variables and other factors here) I’ve had the same problems and the above is my understanding after researching. I could be wrong but there are plenty of resources on this on the inter webs lol. Good luck hope that helps
Wonderful video (as always)...
Is that a bong in the background? Its been a while since I was in that culture so forgive my ignorance.
Can you do a show with a set up wire by wire like in this video set up
Can't wait for you to do that review Pecron 2000 With cart 😁
If using this as a drop in replacement in an RV, should I attach the 14v DC from the generator through a charge controller configured for Lithium batteries?
I have a Devil Doll like yours. I haven’t found the Candy Angle. I don’t think they were ever made.
I never saw one either. I wish I would have got a Radiskull when they were available.
@@HOBOTECH I did get the book. And there are pillows and T shirts available. I do like your channel. Keep up the good work.
Can you buy one and then add another one or two or three later on and not have it affect the other battery
Yes
And thank you again for answering me and I enjoy your freaking review so much you are very smart man and you make it fun and I hope we see the aliens in the sky one day
Also these are way cheaper than Bluettis own addon batteries. They don't do all the "smart" stuff, but power's power.
I have one bluetti ac200p and two eb240s. Could I plug one of these batteries into either of those to store extra power during sun hours and then switch to plug in DC to charge bluetti back at night? It would certainly be nice to use a little AC at night while keeping bluetti above 20%. How would i charge them from bluetti during day? thank you in advance for a response.
@@misskelso7265 I don't really know about it myself, but it was mentioned in the video. Other comment threads mention connecting these to Bluettis, though.
Actually, when it comes down to it, I probably will just shell out for a B300 because I'm a technophobe, and "connect one cable" can't really go wrong.
Quite excellent aside information !
I've been looking hard at the AC 300 for my camper and was going to make the purchase next month my question is would you prefer the AC 300 or installing these batteries and having more of them. Am I correct in thinking I can have nearly 300 amps of solar with the AC 300 150 amps on each leg. Thank you for your time I value your opinion. I have two strings of solar on my camper 144 amps on each string. Commercial panels
Very nice. I might get this battery for a 2000W inverter (156a). It might get warm, but do you think it can handle 156a continuously until depleted, around 73 minutes I think?
Professor what would you recommend: 2 of these batteries with say a 1500 watt inverter to run 3, 5 cubic foot freezers OR a Bluetti Ac200 max.?
And there's the junction box in my apartment, quitting at a mere 30 amps.
You had me at Power Queen!
Double fisted👊👊
The lights went out in Hoboland. LOL, no worry, the sun is up and the Power Queen battery can take all the power your solar panels will feed it. Great review for a great battery. Thanks!
This battery is not rated at 4000 cycles to 80%. Their website says, "4000+ cycle times and a 10-year lifespan". I can't find anywhere it says 4K cycles to 80%.
Regular LFP is 3500 to 80%. These are EV grade 4000 to 80%.
Thanks Again!
Hi Tom, love your video's and your schtick! :)
Question.... I have a '65 vintage rv trailer that I've made some upgrades to. To run my 12 volt system I use a portable solar panel that plugs into the exterior of my trailer. That plug runs to my (pretty basic) Eco-Worthy 30 amp charge controller, which keeps my coach batteries topped up (2x100AH hour deep cycle lead acid). Simple... but they're nearing their end of life. Since it's upgrade time, I will be replacing them with a 180 - 200AH LiPo4 battery, and in an effort to get maximum life out of it am trying to work out what is the most effective way to cycle between 20 - 80%, short of manually unplugging and plugging in my solar panel? Forgive my ignorance but can this be regulated through the BMS or is a better charge controller the ticket?
Thanks for your time and keep making great videos!
Great question 👍 I'd like to know the answer too🙏
A lot of charge controllers have programmable max and min voltage settings.
Cool, Thanks HOBOTECH, best deal I have seen in a long time. I picked up 4 of them today 4/24/2022 for my RV ..i might need to up may 4- 100 panels to 200 watt each or something similar, If I can find them real close the same size as the Renogy 100 watt I have up there now , there is very little room for anything larger, it only a 16' trailer...lol What do you think ?
That's almost 10kwh being charged by only 800w solar. You need double that to recharge fully in one solar day. hobotech.tv/amazon/#Solar-Kits
I’m thinking that any solar system is all about the battery and pumping in watts of course.
Sanity check: to get a 48v - 30kw whole house backup, I need 6 EG4's @ $9k or 16 of these at $10k (or $9.7k with hobo9 discount). Seems there would also be more hardware needed to connect 16 batteries vs 6. Presume they both have use cases where they each might be better suited, but in the example given (48v/30kw), I'm not seeing the cost savings of "thousands" of dollars. What am I missing? I'm a solar noob and trying to educate myself, so my question is sincere.
There's too many variations and situations to really consider here, so in terms of just cost alone these are definitely cheaper for what you would get.
W/ 16 of these you'd get 38,912Wh vs the 6 EG4s which would be 30,720Wh
If you were going by a budget and you were ok with less Wh in your system then yes the EG4 configuration would be a better option because you'd essentially have to have more PQ batteries to get the 48v configuration which would cost more overall (but also get more Wh).
But yes, you'd have to possibly have more wiring and would have to be more creative with shelving these as opposed to a neat server rack and stacking them.
Plus you'd want a 4x12V battery equalizer
L R already explained it but if you wanted a 48v equivalent to 6x EG4's just buy 12x of the Power Queens (4S3P) for 29,184wh at $7260. It's about $1800 cheaper than the EG4's for near equivalent power.
I had his same dilemma so I just split the difference by going with a separate battery system to alternate between. One battery pack = 4x12v and the other is 48v.
Being able to down scale in 12v intervals can actually have its advantages in an emergency.
Say if your inverter goes down but you have 12v compatible devices. You could charge and run things direct.
Depends on your setup too, the server rack batteries are able to communicate BMS info to the inverter, which is a really nice feature to have to make sure you're not getting some kind of imbalance in the cells.
I changed out my Zooms and Chins battery bank to a custom built pack for that reason, I can now monitor each cell for any imbalance and see when it's going through its passive balance mode. It's not as elegant as I just have raw cells on the floor, but I now have 2kWh more capacity for roughly the same price as these drop in replacement batteries.
The good news is that I now have some of these 12V lifepo4 batteries to use with my regular ol' inverter for portable power when I need it.
I wish my scale came out less than I thought it would! Haha
Cut to the chase: Waada Costa?
Everything seemed like a great battery and value until the high discharge current. The failure of the BMS to act quicker puts me off. Too much fire risk.
Now you tell me, I already bought Ampere Time batteries. Oh Well I do like what I have.
What can people do for these batteries when you can’t charge them below 32°F?
Hello hobotech
Hope you doing great today.
I have a question for you.
Can I connect a battery stinger isolator to a power Queen battery? If I can send info please. like your videos much!
Much appreciate you boss
Hi and thanks for posting this video!
Is there any chance you might be able to do the same tests on the Power Queen 300ah battery?
If they send me one. Write them and request it.
I keep hearing over and over that you can cycle LFP batteries to 100% without fear of much degradation, you do not have to follow the 20-80% rule with this chemistry (Denis Phares, Will Prowse, Ford authority as examples). The amount of battery life saved micromanaging them is minimal and not worth the time. In fact, Phares want you to charge them to 100% to help in their battery cycle life (to keep them balanced).
I heard that using an AGM setting on LiFePO4 will work ... however ... where does this 80% and 20% fit in?
Extend the life of the LiFePo battery by keeping it in the range of max 80% and min 20%. Hope that helped
Anyone who actually thinks lead acid even compares to lithium, would have their mind blown in a back to back !! Lithium is like a hand crank generator, compared to a nuclear power plant! Especially the most modern lithium batteries!!
Hi Professor Hobo , love your videos and have learned a lot from them . I would like to ask your advice of how I could build the cheapest set up with this battery , lets say i want it just for fridge & water pump power back up and it can be charged through normal current so we can save the Solar Panels
You could probably get by with a 1000w inverter hooked up to the battery. Newer fridges don't seem to draw that much power. I've ran my medium size "beverage" fridge on a 500w inverter and a 50ah battery no problem.
Now when I watched the video, it indicated that it was 9 hours old. Tried the Hobo9 discount, but it only brought it down to $651 at checkout. I was really hoping it was going to be $605. Am I missing something?
Just worked ffor me.
You have to use the link and the code. Verified $605.
Well not today I just tried too.
@@DB-yj3qc I don't understand how anyone is having issues with this. Click link hobos.cc/pq190, add to cart, check out, use code HOBO9 .
@@DB-yj3qc Original cost is $664.49. Coupon drops it to $605, then tax brings it to $656. Maybe that is why you keep seeing $650 approx.
Ive got a 5k aims inverter in a service vehicle. Can I use this battery in conjunction with my vehicles battery being charged by the vehicles alternator? OR do I have to have a separate way to charge this battery.
Everybody keeps talking about the cell life which is great but will the BMS last anywhere near that long? Because if the BMS fails the battery won't last long correct?
Can you tell me on your explanation, how lead acid batteries can last ten years and why the data sheets on some say 1250 cycles.
I know there is really out of date information that misleads people into 400cycles before maintenance takes place.
Does anyone think these would make good Golf Cart batteries? The "normal" lfp batteries usually can't output enough amps and the golf cart will shut down on hills or under heavy load.
How many amps do you need to run the golf cart? This thing operates at 150a.
@@Theedgecrusher93 Usually they say 150-200 continuous is needed for steep hills or when loaded with people. Many of the carts will stop until battery cools.