Was Negan Right? | The Walking Dead
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2024
- Was Negan Smith right about the world and how to survive and thrive in it? In this video I breakdown Negan's leadership and ethics to come to a definitive conclusion.
#thewalkingdead #negan #ethics - Zábava
For those of you who’d like to see more Walking Dead content, or content tackling ethical topics in zombie media, please like, share and subscribe. Also, please consider becoming a channel member. Unlike my gaming content, videos like these tend to get demonetized due to the footage I’m using. Anyways, thanks for all your kind words and I’m looking forward to further engaging with you all in other videos.
Did an Ai write and narrate the analysis of this video?
@@MrBuketmanNo… lol tf gives you that impression?
Did you possibly tease a video on the Governor at the end by chance? This video was put together and presented well, so I'd totally be down for more analysis videos like this.
@@TheRealCaptainGoldThis was thought provoking.
I think that guy was making a jab at your voice, but hell if I know.
Liked and subbed. Produce more content like this and you will grow. Doesn't have to be all walking dead related, you clearly have some knowledge on philosophy and literature(particularly pertaining to character development and symbolism) in my opinion anyway
@@TheRealCaptainGoldcan we get a what if negan won. I would like to hear how they would have dealt with the,the famine, the whispers and then the commonwealth
People thinking Rick was just as bad as Negan clearly didn’t watch the show or are being blinded by their fondness for the character’s charisma. Rick didn’t enslave people, didn’t have multiple wives he coerced into sexual relationships and he wasn’t opposed to a democratic process.
Everyone is like Rick attacked first so obviously negan is the victim. Rick attacked a bunch of raiders who were taking food and supplies from hilltop and had someone captive. And we learn later that the hilltops doctors brother was taken by the saviors
@@jeremyscungio16 He also purely didnt attack first. I hate people who say this. The saviors attacked Daryl, Sasha and Abraham first. Then jesus said the saviors came to the hilltop and took their shit and then killed a 14 year old kid just because.
@@jeremyscungio16In a edition to those facts, saviors tried to rob and murder Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham prior to the satellite attack. Rick attacked because it was obvious that Negan would become an issue for them.
@@victornieves1794did you even read his response?
Rick did oppose democracy. The iconic line "this isn't a democracy anymore" from season 2 carried all the way until season 4. Rick also was willing to kill the Alexandrans "How many of you do I need to kill before you learn?" Quote is talking to them. He turns into shane only to be humbled by negan. Rick and Co attacked negan on the word of people he just met. This was done so they could trade. He wasn't concerned with who was in the right or wrong. He killed an entire Outpost on a deal.
All this is to say people shouldn't agree with negan but acting as if Rick was better is not accurate. Let's also not forget his betrayl and execution of saviors during the war. They freed him and wanted to join him they were just scared and as he said "I lied" last thing is negan is the same coin as Rick just amped up a few notches
Negan, in my eyes, would be the most realistic individual that you may run across in a scenario such as TWD.
I’m inclined to agree.
@@TheRealCaptainGold I disagree. I think most likely a person would just kill you and take your stuff. Negan's way is dangerous. Ultimately, it invites revolution.
Same.
If anytbing I believe the wolves and claimed would take over
Thats how i see the claimers
“we are the saviors” feels like it’s a direct parallel to “we are the walking dead”
true
Feels a lot like "We are the Republican party."
"we are grounders"
"We're with the Church, we offer salvation." Alot of parallels there
Negan is the clear representation of what a survivor in an apocalypse would be like
"Negan and the Saviors in TWD actually represent the government. The communities affiliated with them usually carry light close-range weapons, which indicates that there is no significant walker threat or threat from other communities. This means the Saviors act like the police in the state to protect from internal unrest and the military to protect from walkers. They also prevent theft. For example, Negan's officer with the burned face had previously attempted to steal all the insulin supplies of the community in the previous season. It is not known if anyone died in the Savior camp due to this medication theft, but it is believed that a few people died in the effort to capture him.
In reality, if one considers a situation where police officers die while catching someone who embezzles the country's medication stocks, and even patient losses occur, the punishment he received is very minimal, as he was immediately released. Yes, he lost his relationship and was partially disabled, but he only suffered a cosmetic injury with no permanent disability. In some countries, the punishment for such major crimes is death or life imprisonment.
Rick and his group first blew up nearly 10 motorcycle patrol members of the Saviors with a rocket launcher. Then, under the influence of a drunken town leader, they conducted a night raid on a soldier/police station and killed nearly 30 adult combatants in their sleep. Many states would classify this as a terrorist act and eliminate the perpetrators wherever they are found. Despite this, Negan and his group killed only 2 of the approximately 10 members of Rick's group. It should be remembered that in a world with such problems, building prisons and feeding criminals for life is not feasible.
Negan's officers, like in any state, engage in corrupt or overly dictatorial behavior. Therefore, Negan and the Saviors represent the fairest state-like system that can exist in a city that has experienced an emergency situation like an earthquake.
And as a result, Rick and his group caused the deaths of about 40 of Negan's men initially, then crippled hundreds of his adult combat-ready men with faulty bullets, and caused the deaths of hundreds of people and one tiger in the civil war they initiated. The survivors became easy targets for another group like the Whisperers. Thus, because Rick under the orders of the drunken leader where he switched sides mid-season and killed by rick's group, they ended a potential alliance that could have genuinely transformed into a state."
I mean, they all are.
A psychotic one.
@@JonO387 when it comes down to the nitty gritty and life and death of the people you care about we’d all be insane
Negan was right about picking long blunt as his weapon)
Spears are a good back up though.
Rick as his opposite picked axes as his main
Damn right long blunt for life
what about the legendary red machete?@@ugniuszavadskis9658
kills glenn
+1 long blunt
If this hasn't already been mentioned: Negan when he originally took over Sanctuary said the people there were a "confederacy of assholes" and "gangs of animals". That would likely be the type of people who would realistically survive a zombie apocalypse. Negan's methods only works if you're dealing with savage survivalists who only understand fear/intimidation and refuse diplomacy. Negan's main flaw was treating everyone he met after that like those people. I kind of wished they would've shown how Sanctuary was before Negan took over for better context on why he treated them the way he did.
Dude I wished they would have explored preNegan sanctuary since he and simon talked about teaming up for a takeover and how they killed to previous asshole leader, the tease
If you didn't treat everyone you met like a confederacy of assholes then you would most definitely get exploited by the gang of animals you didn't profile correctly.
My Hobbesian mindset cannot comprehend any other outcome in a situation such as a Zombie Apocalypse.
@@Weltshmerz maybe will be mention as a flashback for dead city since negan probably has to be his old self on the island. Idk been awhile since i watched dead city.
Pretty sure he converted or killed those that were supposedly savages, so they wouldn't or couldn't survive an apocalypse long term since they have no rules what is acceptable and probably turned on each other constantly, also keeping in mind no social structure that Negan built into all his survivors by keeping them humanized to a certain degree
Negan was so brutal, whether for good or for evil, just brutal. That's why his character was so good. Throw in the gross humor and there you go.
He’s a top tier antagonist. No doubt.
@@TheRealCaptainGoldI think you fail to realize that negan was dealing with a bunch of lying back stabbing terrible people. The people that actually survived in the wild and made the society function were ex prisoner biker gang types. They were a basic organization and rules for killers by killers.
@@Rays_Bad_Decisions😂🫵
"Negan and the Saviors in TWD actually represent the government. The communities affiliated with them usually carry light close-range weapons, which indicates that there is no significant walker threat or threat from other communities. This means the Saviors act like the police in the state to protect from internal unrest and the military to protect from walkers. They also prevent theft. For example, Negan's officer with the burned face had previously attempted to steal all the insulin supplies of the community in the previous season. It is not known if anyone died in the Savior camp due to this medication theft, but it is believed that a few people died in the effort to capture him.
In reality, if one considers a situation where police officers die while catching someone who embezzles the country's medication stocks, and even patient losses occur, the punishment he received is very minimal, as he was immediately released. Yes, he lost his relationship and was partially disabled, but he only suffered a cosmetic injury with no permanent disability. In some countries, the punishment for such major crimes is death or life imprisonment.
Rick and his group first blew up nearly 10 motorcycle patrol members of the Saviors with a rocket launcher. Then, under the influence of a drunken town leader, they conducted a night raid on a soldier/police station and killed nearly 30 adult combatants in their sleep. Many states would classify this as a terrorist act and eliminate the perpetrators wherever they are found. Despite this, Negan and his group killed only 2 of the approximately 10 members of Rick's group. It should be remembered that in a world with such problems, building prisons and feeding criminals for life is not feasible.
Negan's officers, like in any state, engage in corrupt or overly dictatorial behavior. Therefore, Negan and the Saviors represent the fairest state-like system that can exist in a city that has experienced an emergency situation like an earthquake.
And as a result, Rick and his group caused the deaths of about 40 of Negan's men initially, then crippled hundreds of his adult combat-ready men with faulty bullets, and caused the deaths of hundreds of people and one tiger in the civil war they initiated. The survivors became easy targets for another group like the Whisperers. Thus, because Rick under the orders of the drunken leader where he switched sides mid-season and killed by rick's group, they ended a potential alliance that could have genuinely transformed into a state."
@@broderin9741I haven’t watched twd and don’t know anything about Negan but it seems like you have a valid point. Some countries even execute drugdealers just because the potential harm it causes their citizens. In a world like twd where everything is back to the wild west, someone should take order. An interesting topic nontheless
His control was never going to last, all he did was roll into settlements and extort them for resources to go to the saviors ruling through fear. He didn't even form some sort of government distribution where he would take from settlements and then distribute the resources between settlements like a government.
Exactly. The communities the Saviors found either rebelled and were destroyed or starved because of the saviors. After destroying every community in reach the Saviors would have had no choice but to travel to another location to find new communities they can steal from. But obviously they would have messed with the wrong guys sooner or later.
👍@@elmercy4968
@@elmercy4968 I mean he also didn't really have to be purely good either, even while being a merciless dictator he could have formed some sort of resemblance of a worthwhile government. One that yes takes from settlements through force and intimidation but redistributes it and provides services like protection. He never really provided any form of stability for the settlements, taking too much while giving nothing back like you said.
The Saviors were like a band of pirates.
Negan NEVER lied, unlike the Governor.
It was like skiing, the Governor just hoped from one lie to the next
Exact opposite
this video pretty much explains how and why negan was lying 24/7, amazing. has anyone listened or watched the show or this video?
The governor sh00ting his own people was just as shocking as what Negan did, but more disturbing. They just questioned the governor, they didn’t do anything to him. Negan was getting revenge and squashing the potential disturbance to his delicate system. it was just his methods that were disgusting.
@@BigWilmson To himself, yeah. To others? No. He didn’t lie to his men. They knew what they signed up for. He didn’t lie to his wives. They were free to go and work like any other women, for points. They also knew what they have to do if they remain his wives. But they chose to stay. He didn’t lie to the communities. They knew that they will be there every single week and take their supplies and if there is not enough, someone dies.
Correction, he did lie about one thing. He didn’t gave jacksht to the communities for their supplies other than not killing one of them, while promising them protection. That’s still not “lying 24/7”.
I think Negan was one of the best characters. I also think he was a psychopathic monster, and hardly any actions pre-season 9 were justified.
If Negan is a psychopath then you have a god complex
Well he wasn't a psychopath cos he had empathy, standards, rules, emotions etc
Best bad guy ever
Negan used what was at one point considered to be a sound military tactic, a.k.a decimation, you kill one of every 10 soldiers and the rest will fall in line, if you're trully fucked you'll force them to chose who dies and then have one of them do the killing, so it could be way waay worse. My fav chapter of WWZ depicts the Russian army doing that to deal with "discontent" and the effects it had on soldiers and officers.
Negan planned to take his batting routine down to precisely this new low of depravity when he forcefully reclaimed Alexandria.
The decimation. That chapter was rough. WWZ was such a damn good book. The movie was atrocious
indeed, tho as teh writer said, it was just somebody else's story, nothing to do with his book@@riznix9237
Romans did it too.
Decimatio was an extremely rare punishment during the height of the Republic/Empire, reserved for cowardice in battle and mutiny.
I feel like people rely way too much on the satellite station event as a way to argue that ricks group did something to deserve what happened. Those people are the satellite we're still negans soldiers and still were evil as all hell. They had pictures of smashed heads hanging over their beds like some happy memories scrap book. Just because they were asleep doesn't mean anything. If they were awake that would've made a difference? No. They were still evil and got what was coming. Let's also not forget that if the saviors found out about Alexandria's existence it would've only been a matter of time before they came knocking and we would've ended up in the same place we ultimately did anyway.
Tell me in every season in every place and community Rick's group comes across they ruin and utterly destroy them. Sure Rick is good on his people, but to others? Hell nah they get burnt on a cross.
@@bigdot2355 lol very true. The other day I made the joke that Rick will almost certainly defeat the CRM because He is there and everywhere he goes falls apart very shortly after
@@pyroAdapthe def can't defeat CRM
Those pictures were warnings. Dont cross Negan Saviors.
People act as though they wouldn't do the same....cuz if they didn't they'd be dead....
People respect strength but the thing about about strong arming the top spot is there will always be another person stronger coming along
They respect but some strive to become stronger.
Alexander The Great was a fantastic example of how leading with strength only lasts one generation of leadership. He was unstoppable, but on his deathbed when they asked him who should succeed him to carry on his work, his response was: ''The strongest.'' This led to a huge power vacuum where every one of his generals tried proving themselves as such, and it basically all fell apart because of that.
This is why it's been generally accepted not to have the strongest lead, but to have the overall most capable lead.
Better than being weak and stepped on leader until your eventual murder for a power struggle. It's a zombie apocalypse resources are thin having a democratic rule is a luxury for a stable economy.
Makes you wonder what would have happened had the Saviors been made to face off against the Commonwealth or the CRM.
i think that's the problem. people respect strength more than morality. more than intelligence and definitely more than maturity. that's why some idiots think negan was right. that's why people worship andrew bait. that's why people worship soldier boy.
Fear works until you leave the room. Respect last long after you're gone.
I saw Kirkman say we would feel for Negan if we had followed his story from the beginning. Negan became the thing that happens to people. Any higher morals were long forgotten.
Not sure that the back story we were actually shown fully supports that. The brutality was the result of what he encountered in the apocalypse, but he was quite the asshole before anyone rose from the dead.
People love to bring up the satellite attack to say that Rick's people attacked first as if it proves anything, even though the Saviors were slave owners AND were the ones who actually attacked first. By the logic of Negan defenders, Rick also attacked Terminus first, but no one ever talks about that.
I think no one brings Terminus up because the Terminus bunch, whatever their reason, had turned to cannibalism and thus were no different than the Dead. For all the sh*t Negan and his bunch did that was one line they didn’t cross
The problem is that Rick and his group didn't do it for the greater good to take out Negan and the outpost. It was for an exchange of goods between Alexandria and the hilltop.
@@ZeonEons they were still doing Hilltop a favor so I don't see your point
@@SharpX0 Only If hilltop had the means to give something for the favor
@@ZeonEons ok?
To be fair a lot of the truely evil stuff that happend Simon did without negan knowing until later
That’s why I said his leadership brought out the worst in people. Simon was ultimately Negan’s responsibility, as he was his right hand man.
@TheRealCaptainGold totally true great video.
Rick and Negan both killed people… but Negan made his people live for him, and Rick lived FOR his family
Oh please, Rick bashed, then took over every community he and his group was invited into. He was no different than Negan except Negan kept the Sanctuary going where every community now taken over by Rick fell apart.
@@MarkRosendorfNegans was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode and Rick was the match, once a group was able to defy him it was over all that resentment and hate will come back up toppling it down
@@enriqueperezarce5485That doesn't dispute what I said about Rick.
@@MarkRosendorfrick showed Alexandria how to survive, AARON AND TOBIN thanked him for it. Not Rick’s fault when by the time the apocalypse was at Alexandria’s Doorstep the people who didn’t listen to Rick died. Woodbury was not his fault as they took two of their own, And the Governor was a psychopath. Michonne should not have Killed his Dead Daughter because that’s what really set him over the edge. I’m confused like what are you getting at to where Rick was like Negan. The Hilltop is possibly the only argument you could have and even then Gregory was a HORRIBLE leader. When Maggie took over the Hilltop literally became bigger and could support more people. I’m confused as what you mean dude, Rick and Negan are different.
@@MarkRosendorfyou have the iq of a rock
I think Negan originally started off with good intentions but became blinded by greed and hunger for power along the way.
This is the very first time I've ever seen/heard someone mention Negan as the sexual predator that he was. When Negan saved Sasha from bring raped, I couldn't understand his moral stance in that situation, considering he did everything to his "wives", except for hold them down. I'm 41 and since the age of 14, I've been raped six times, three of which, without them having to hold me down. The fear of death or greater injury to myself, is more than enough to hold me down and take what's happening. For all intents and purposes, Negan was a serial rapist. And I greatly and sincerely appreciate you saying it❤❤❤God bless you!
No one cares
Nobody cares about how many times it happened to you lol
@@Stigmezz Jesus, does this make you feel better?
Putting down someone for just giving context to their story.
@@xenomorphlad9895 it does make me feel warm inside
@@Stigmezz well, you do you ig
The first chance I got to kill Negan, I would do it without any hesitation. Plus, I never felt he ever redeemed himself. He had no choice to behave a little cause he had lost his whole group and if he had managed to get a whole new group together he would keep doing what he had been doing. I am very surprised he wasn't mobbed and brutally killed after all the things he did.
Me too! In reality it definitely would not have ended well for him!
Negan would of died when he took a guys wife then armed said guy and was around him at all times.
Man would of def murdered suicide
@@sambo416 ❤️
if not for Rick honoring carl's last wishes they would have, still surprised Maggie didn't do it.
@@noone-ss8lu I know. Someone would have done it at some point.
Thank you so much! for being the one to finally make a video about this. I could never stand(& still can’t stand) the people who defend his actions during this time in the show. He was clearly the villain, plain & simple.
When you break down post savior Negan, can you make sure to specifically include-
Michonne’s scenes with him in 9x12 & 9x16
Aaron’s confrontation with him in 10x3
What he says before he gets his reward from Alpha in 10x9
The opening & ending of 10x17
Everything in 10x22
Maggie’s scenes/confrontation’s with him in 11x1, 11x2, 11x3, 11x7, & 11x9
Ezekiel’s scenes with him in 11x21 & 11x22
Everything in Dead City
I’m sure you’d cover everything else in between.
I appreciate the episode stamps. It’s gonna make my life easier. But yea, I was sorta growing tired of how people defended the indefensible. Yes, he’s a great character who’s fun to watch - but he was wrong.
@@TheRealCaptainGold You’re welcome. I agree 100%.
I very much agree too, it’s both very sad and very scary that we have to explain why these villains are villains 😂 I feel like people desperately want to side with villains to sound cool and edgy
In our society, people will do mental gymnastics to defend forgiving an attractive person who commits even the most heinous of crimes.
This is the situation we see with the Negan of the tv series (comic book Negan wasn't cute). Jeffrey Dean Morgan brings striking good looks, a sense of humour, and a dash of charisma to the role that is an unforgivable villain. The writers don't even have to work too hard on his redemption arc because fans were so eager to forgive him.
If you don't believe me, just imagine Anton Chigurh (Javier Bardem in No Country For Old Men) in the role. Nobody wants to forgive an unattractive sociopath.
@@Theresa0617 yea and my thing is, people in this comment section will go above and beyond to defend negan and try and compare rick and negan, but where is this same effort for the governor? The claimers? The cannibals? Nothing, just negan, very coincidental since negan is the most entertaining and charismatic one.
Parallels between the saviors and the Crm a little eerie
Yeah the CRM is just way stronger
Crm is a whole other level of threat
@@petergust3607He means, as a villain it's just the same old shit, kill to steal resources. Nothing new besides new toys new danger, same threat of being killed and robbed.
Historically speaking, totalitarian regimes never seem to last as long as their more democratic counterparts. Not sure if there was ever more to what Machiavelli meant about being feared rather than loved because I haven't looked into it too deeply but humanity's entire political legacy has proven such a system is always short-lived simply because oppressively ruling a hateful population is ultimately self-destructive and inevitably leads to some form of insurrection. Negan's society was TWD's greatest example of that.
North Korea, Russia, Belarus, Cuba, Spain after WWII are asking to hold their beer
Your just ignorant of historical context. Empires lasted way longer then any democracy ever has. Pretending because a few fell to democratic intervention. I don't remember seeing any fall without intervention from the outside. They don't magically fall or don't last. Most democracies and Republics in history have fallen into monarchies.
@@linaskranauskas Those are all short lived regimes compared to the US, though comparing the 1st world to the 2nd world and former Soviet states isn't exactly fair due to the disparity of wealth.
and the US is famous for wealth equality :) ok if they are short lived please reply when they end.@@greenbrickbox3392
@@linaskranauskas The Spanish francoist regime collapsed when franco died, lmfao. Cuba is far from totalitarian, and Russia also... is about 30 years old. North Korea is on it's death bed and the only thing stopping it's demise is it's nuclear weapons. Belarus is also 30 years old. These pale in comparison to almost all modern democratic states, which are significantly more stable than any of these.
The reasons why is like weight. If the weight of a structure is distributed evenly, then one shake-up to one part of the structure wont knock it down. If all the weight is concentrated in the middle, then a shove will cause the whole structure to come crumbling down. A democratic society survives because everyone sees themselves not just within society, but as the society. There will always be someone to take someone else's place, because the systems are more important than the people.
Perfectly said, negan has always been my favourite walking dead charector since the comics mainly because of his amazing redemption arc
I agree with you 100%. Why do some people not understand that it didn't take much for Rick and our group to put 2 and 2 together with the situation between Daryl, Sasha and Abraham and the saviours to know the saviours were going to be an enemy group, and after everything they had already been through they couldn't take any chances.
Also another thing nobody seems to think of, is that when Carol was leaving Alexandria, she bumped into a group from the saviours and they told her they were heading to Alexandria and that they would have to kill one of them straight away. This was before the saviours knew anything about Rick and our group being the ones that took out their outpost or what Daryl did to the bikers, which clarified that the were going to find Alexandria all along.
The reason I bring this up is because some people say the saviours might not have found Alexandria and we all know that's bullshit tbh, as the saviours were always out looking for other communities to take over and slave. Sorry for going on but this Negan stuff gets me frustrated tbh 😂 oh and you've got a new subscriber 👍
When they ran into Carol, they already knew it was Alexandria that took out their outpost.
🎯@@deckzone3000
@@deckzone3000 No they didn't, imo if the saviours knew at that time it was Alexandria that took out their outpost, Negan would have sent a much bigger group or more than likely gone himself.
Agree, eventually the saviors would have found alexandria. Now I do believe though that gregory and possible other hillside members were giving info on alexandrea. They knew too much.
Not only that but people forget about episode 6x6 when the saviors who were looking for Dwight ran Abraham, Daryl and Sasha off the road and that's when Daryl met Dwight and he told them all about who the saviors were. Then after Dwight robbed Daryl, Daryl Met back up with Abe and Sasha and that's when little Timmy and the dick brigade ambushed them. And then at the hilltop they witnessed Ethan stab Gregory because the saviors had his brother and wanted Gregory's head. That's when they made the deal to take out the outpost
No. Lol. I get people like him as he is an entertaining charismatic character, but look at it fr and he is a bandit leader who stole from weaker settlements to feed himself and also stole wives - and YES he stole/ kidnapped them as they were 'given' through fear of torture or worse. He is vile.
Entertaining sure, but vile.
His redemption arc was awesome tho.
I don't think Negan redeemed himself. For this the first and most important step is to realize that what I did was wrong. Then I decide to become a better person and make up for my misdeeds. But Negan thinks that what he did was right.
Very true! Reason why I stopped watching the series when they tried to make him a permanent edition. 😡
Rick just said that tonight on The Ones Who Live. "People are a resource."
Yeah but it kinda sounded like he was just being sarcastic/snarky. He also said "you're a hero with a shit haircut" in that same line.
Did Rick actually ever hear Negan say that
How did you think 99 percent of civilization was built? Like Negan told Aaron, it's the story of america, the whole goddamn world. Negan did what his country and history taught him what worked
Yup, hes basicly a (proto)Feudal Lord.
I always prefered him over Rick simply becouse Negan had a good shot at rebuilding Civilisation, Rick didnt even thought about that
@@ottersirotten4290 negan didn't want to build a civilization he was building one big castle for himself he wasn't thinking about all rebuild civilization stuff
@@kapriseedwards9687like medieval times kinda?
@@kapriseedwards9687 exactly, negan and the saviors keep using the excuse “we’re trying to bring civilization back to this world” meanwhile they’re constantly getting off at bullying and taking mattresses and burning them. Dwight also emptied a whole water bottle right in front of rosita in season 7. So if the saviors are soooo helpful and good, why are they wasting water and mattresses? Because they’re greedy and all about power, these people are all cringe asf thinking that they’re actually doing good, they’re just as delusional as negan
@@kapriseedwards9687
Thinking critically all Negan had was military power. The Sanctuary is a horrible place to farm (even later seasons prove the Sanctuary is dependent on food imports in exchange for produced goods).
The only option was constant raiding or conquering.
If you leave tribes with weapons they will fight you over and over.
There was no other option.
Rick ran the show, then Daryl ran the show, and at the end negan ran the show. So clearly all 3 were right with something
Negan would have had a bullet in his head so fast it was ridiculous.
Really good analysis here Captain, a very overlooked subject and some very good points made. Great video as always, looking forward to more content like this 👍
Thank you for making this video. I hate it when people call rick the villain for helping a group of farmers against their tyrannical leader, it's like we watched 2 different shows.
Yes
They also forget that negan's men already attacked sasha abraham and daryl first.
Of all the problems with Negan's system, the lack of democracy was not one lmao.
I think part of what makes Negan so interesting is his “goal” of bringing “civilization” back after the walkers. I think the most interesting thing about a post apocalyptic story is how humanity tries to rebuild and organize into new societies
I view it as what Daryl said to Jesus when he was escaping the sanctuary, “it’s not about getting by here, it’s about getting it all” the saviors were greedy, they chose to “survive” this way and they got their karma, great video dude and your points are really good!
Negan is a metaphor for government. Protection at a price and suffering when you can't pay.
Something I would LOVE that we would never get. Id love to have the Rick Daryl and Michonne reunite. But id LOVE to listen to podcasts on these characters going over what they been through the 6-8 years
Jon bernthal (Shane) has one if yu haven’t seen it. He’s had Daryl n Lori on it. I don’t think he’s has anymore twd cast members on since tho
@@shhh5743 lol no no no maybe i didnt explain it right. Im saying like within the show. The conversations and stories they would have catching up on where theyve been the past years. Like conversation in TWD world not real world. Like to hear Daryl explain to Rick the whisperes..explain to him about the variants…Michonne telling Rick about his som
Negan was a gamer, he’s a monster.
He really did play like a gamer
@@mclovin2408 He was also canonically a high school gym teacher who played video games in his free time before the apocalypse
@@fancyclown6863 sounds like a cool ass dude
@@mclovin2408Until the apocalypse.😝
@@gamervet4760 he’s still cool, but just in a bad way lol
Can you do a video on why Negans redemption is worthy of respect, I would love to hear you talk about it. Great video overall
Just might. Thanks for the idea!
I really hope Rick finds out all of what Negan did while he was gone.
I was thinking the same thing
@@larrygoode702and I hope Negan’s eventual death is as gloriously brutal as the death he gave Glenn and Abraham. Seriously f*ck Negan with the business end of Lucille 😤😤😤
@@larrygoode702Hell, Im looking forward to Deadcity somehow giving us some interaxtion between negan and rick, at the least mention them seeing each other after years
The whole purpose of "Here's Negan." Was to show that Rick could have easily turned out like Negan after Lori died. The only reason he didn't is because Rick had people to keep him grounded. Negan had no one, and that's what sent him down a dark path.
I find The Governor and Negan interesting because we only know them by their alias. Negan was interesting because it was an alias all the saviors used and not a real name.
Kirkman ruined their characters by totally revealing their backstories and revealing their names. Negan’s relationship with his bat “Lucille” and The Governor’s relationship with his zombie daughter was already good enough to tell they are broken because they lost loved ones.
@@petermj1098 That wasn't his daughter
Unlikely. Rick's personality is completely different. Her is cruel to protect those he loves. Negan loves no one, he is cruel because he enjoys it or to achieve power.
It is shocking to actually see parallels between what is brought out in this insightful commentary and the utter chaos going on in reality.
Bad Negan reminds me a lot of myself during traumatic times of pure survival, obviously not in the physicality or acts but this replacement of the individual with another, with an act, with a mask, someone else to take over, someone better at surviving, ive had gripes with the show over the years but they still do good work in showing interesting psychology
I can never get past the wives thing
Spoiler alert: polygamy is pretty common in both the human and animal worlds.
Anyone still disputing this let me ask you this, in terminus when Rick realized something was VERY WRONG and held the guy at gunpoint what did his people do? Had his back even if they didn't quite yet realize the severity of the situation or even that anything was wrong. People willingly follow Rick because he has proven himself and wait for it... TRUST him in a fucking apocalypse. Many may depend on someone like negan but they sure as hell don't trust him. That's all i gotta say about it especially as a woman and mother of a pretty young girl AND strong young man. I would not wish this on my own children even if it ensured their survival, would you? Possibly being a sex slave to a dictator, and possibly having to hunt and kill innocent even unarmed people would destroy my kids they'll tell you they prefer death which again I would of course want them to survive but at what cost? Is that truly living or being dead inside while your body continues to draw breath in order to be exploited? Let that sink in and let me know. It's really up to the individual if that's what you'd want for yourself fine with me but they're still always be smarter, stronger, more organized than you in the long run. Of most likely stick it out in order to try and protect my loved ones mainly the kids the only ones I'm truly responsible for I'd offer myself up as a wife/ sex slave, assassin, whatever he needed but again i still wouldn't fucking trust him to not go back on his word.
That was an amazing comment, I’m so sick of people looking at what negan did as a “way of survival” it’s like what you said it’s all about trust. There’s a clear difference between rick and negan, it’s trust and leadership, and if people don’t see that they are 100% delusional and are ironically going to be the first people to go in an apocalypse m
Really looking forward to more videos like this 😊
This channel is about to blow up
Idk how I never knew Negan's last name was Smith. I did know that he was a big Ronald Reegan fan though.
I love your character analysis of my very favorite show/story.
No matter what happened, Rick Grimes was the only leader the people deserved and needed💯
You should make a video about if the Saviors would survive a war with the whisperers. From the first contact to the clash between Negan and Alpha
Just watched 2 of your ethics in media videos and subbed, very interesting to listen to and hoping to see more down the line!
This video is so underrated bro I was SHOCKED when I saw the likes and views you deserve a whole lot more bro amazing vid
Nice video still a fan of Negan from beginning to End
Rick was a leader, Negan was a tyrant.
Rick lead a small group that seemed to take over or ruin every safe spot they came across, negan managed a network of safe places. He was a tyrant but desperate time call for desprite actions. Rick and his crew would be seen as the bad guys if the show didn't follow them
@@joshuasworldtour484 Negan brought Results, Rick brought Destruction(inadvertently or not).
@@joshuasworldtour484 "Negan lost" Okay? so did the Roman Empire at the End, geuss that means they also didnt knew S*** about Leadership^^
@@joshuasworldtour484 No it just means "someone lost eventually, therefore unstable Leadership" is an remarkebly d*** Argument and its disproven by even a short look at History :D
Heck! You even admit yourself that Rick has a hilariously bad Trek Record at leading Communitys, sure its iNaDvErTeNtLy but well... same S*** with every Communist System that ever existed, innit?
Guess real Commu... ehm Rickism hasnt been tried yet
@@joshuasworldtour484 Well given how even the briefest look at History showes how redicliuosly wrong you are... its preety good Source^^
Nevermind that you even admitted Ricks very VERY poor Trek Record at leading Communitys :D
I watch this video at least once a day. I have watched several videos break down negans character, but none have done it this well.
I haven't even watched too much of the show and I know that Negan in seasons 6-8 was just a horrible human being long before I watched this video. His jokes are good, yeah. And I didn't care for when he killed Spencer. But he wasn't just a joker, *he was still a dictator in the end.* Rick and the group had every right to go after Negan back in season 6, and continue their attacks after their enslavement.
Meryl and Simon should have switched spots . Meryl definitely would have fitted in with negan better and Simon would have been a ride or die with the governor
The Walking Dead was in the first year; a class available at Stanford University on Social Breakdowns. It was based on a study by the University, so I was lead to believe. Perhaps not. Still it is an interesting endeavor to see the fail of a Civilization and how people live through that loss until stability is reached.
Rick's group also has no morals, when Rick and Michone abandon a person who was on the road asking for help, when they pass by again they steal the corpse's things.
"you want to proof .....again" Abe and Glen complete silence.
Negan=our government
Great video, Negan is honastly the best charactor in the series every time he is on screen im just drawn in
It’s a toss up between him and Rick for me.
you know what Robert Kirkman might be trying to say the saviors are kinda like the government they take but never give
Excellent video! I especially liked you discussing Negan compared to the Grimes group at the end. The people out there that act like Negan was justified, better than Rick, and merciful for only killing two people are annoying. They also say Rick is no better than Negan which is nuts, so it was nice to see eomeone else talking some sense!
RANT WARNING:
Don't get me wrong, I agree with almost everything you've said in this video. This is just my personal take on Negan as a character and part of my personal reasons for not watching TWD. I didn't stop watching the show because Glenn died. I liked Glenn a lot and I do think he shouldn't have died but it wasn't as big of an issue compared to Negan's writing as a character (though other characters has some terrible writing too), and the show being a bit too close to the comics, which was also going a bit downhill for me. This is one of those rants which talks about more than one thing.
Negan was an evil, mocking, annoying, and disgusting bully who tormented his own people to the point where it's difficult to believe why so many people followed him in the first place. Did he recruit a bunch of convicts from a prison? I don't really get the appeal of his character aside from him being played by an actor who can give life to him. He should've been assassinated by someone like Dwight, similarly to Caligula, who was assassinated by his own men for partaking in similar practices to Negan.
Sure, if Negan is a charismatic, formidable, authoritative leader-type guy who instills fear on other and help protect his own people (much like The Governor and even Shane and Rick), his people will be more willing to follow him, even if he was a brutal bully with other, smaller group who wouldn't do what he'd say. But we are talking about a guy who kills one or two people (even a mid-teen kid at one point) of every group he enslaves by bashing their brains in. We are talking about a guy who acts like a child and call his bat Lucille, a guy who forcefully "marries" women who clearly don't really like him - And if he's having sex with them, then it's pretty much rape too - and a guy who mistreats his ow n people, burning then if they disobey him, just to prove a point. This dude is unrealistically liked and followed.
Listen, with Rick's group, I get that he wanted to make an example of Glenn and Abraham (should've been Abraham and Daryl) because of the amount of Saviors Rick and Co killed. And it makes sense because Rick (uncharacteristically) trusted and got involved with a completely different town - the Hilltop - and got involved with their problems with The Saviors, knowing full well that his men and his people would be in danger. And guess what, what would happen and happened and the Saviors sat their ironsights on Rick and Alexandria. This is a logical thin. And instead of killing Rick and everyone else, Negan actually has a good reason to make an example of one, two, or maybe even three of Rick's men, chop Rick's hand off, and enslave everyone. I'm sure The Saviors wouldn't realistically have a massive issue with this and this is much more peaceful than killing EVERYONE. But no. They had to copy Negan too closely from the comics, adapt this over-the-top, unrealistic character who makes zero sense and isn't scary in intimidating to me, and they had to leave me wondering how an evil, disgusting man like Negan came to lead a group as large as The Saviors in the first place.
Negan is one of the most evil, unsympathetic, and unjustifiable character in the TV Show. He's one of the most unrealistic and non-scary villains. I think he's annoying, I think he's too comic-booky for the show, and I think they should've grounded Negan a bit more in reality like they did with The Governor.
I agree with this, I personally love negans character but I do agree he’s a bit too unrealistic, and the whole saviors system and how it works is pretty unrealistic and outrageous but I think that might be the point? To get us riled up because these saviors are so evil and we wanna see them all get clipped? That’s my guess, but some people in these comments will defend negan and try and make Rick and the group look evil which in my opinion, is the most unrealistic thing ever 😂
@@joshuasworldtour484 after a day of thinking about this i did sort of consider how possible a villain like negan could exist. I do still believe he's too evil and over the top for any group of people to follow him around. He's too brutal to his own people and he has a bunch of wives against their will. those are the two things making him unrealistic and stupid in my eyes. I think Negan, even with his cringy and over-the-top personality, would've been a far better villain if those two things were omitted for the TV series.
Yet, my critique of the entire All Out War arc and Negan extends beyond these two flaws. It's the very introduction of Negan and the catalyst for the entire war; Rick and Daryl, two battle-hardened soldier, for whatever reason trusted Jesus, Gregory, and The Hilltop (people they hardly knew). Now, I get it, Rick saw how The Hilltop was this amazing town and he wanted to help them or whatever. Rick wouldn't really do this. The Hilltop told Rick and his group about these people and how they bashed the head in of a 15 year old just to prove a point. When you hear this, you are hearing about a dangerous leader of a large, merciless group. A group The Hilltop doesn't have a fighting chance to defeat. Rick, as a father of a mid-teen son and an infant daughter at that point in time, should've said "fuck this, I'm not getting involved in this conflict and risking the lives of me, my family, my team, and Alexandria." But no. What does he do? He orders his men to murder a bunch of random people in their sleep. Like I said, this isn't something Rick would do. It's not what Shane would've done if he was still alive, and it's also a stupid decision no father of any child would ever make. and he risked the lives of his own men and the lives in Alexandria by getting himself involved in the conflict. After that occurred, Rick entered in the stupid war I've ever seen. And when Rick had to moment to shoot Negan dead, he failed and then ordered his men to empty their bullets into a building.
I think the show writers and directors should've has the Savior be introduced by randomly messing with Rick's group. Like, let's say after Rick decided to not assist Jesus, The Hilltop, and Gregory with The Saviors. And let's say, a month later or so, Glenn, Michonne, and a few other Alexandrian supply runners are on a supply run. And then a group of saviors, like the ones on the motorcycle, captured a few of them, including Glenn and Michonne, two people Rick cares deeply about. At that point, it would make sense for Rick to then decide to go after The Saviors. It would also make more sense for a pregnant Maggie to be willing to go on dangerous missions despite being pregnant. and then Negan is introduced when Rick, Daryl, Abraham, Sasha, Rosita, and Aaron (not Carl, Eugene, or any other kids or softies) end up captured trying to retrieve Michonne. Negan would kill Abraham. And if Negan would taunt Rosita and Daryl would've gotten up to punch Negan, I think Negan should kill Daryl right after, seeing as he is the one who PUNCHED Negan and is the second most intimidating-looking member of the group.
Admittedly, my envisioned portrayal of Negan's introduction may appear to depict a more ruthless version of the character. And it certainly does. However, his brutality would be directed towards others rather than his own faction, akin to the Governor before he burned his town to the ground. Rick would also have more of a reason to sneak into one of their HQ and murder a bunch of saviors in their sleep, since they would have Michonne (his wife) and Glenn (his best friend and second in command) captured as well as a bunch of other Alexandrians.
I think All Out War should've lasted a shorter amount of time and I also think the show should've ended when All Out War ended. The Whisperers are stupid. The Commonwealth is stupid. The Helicopter thing is stupid. By the time all that shit happened, All the zombies should've gone extinct and rotted away and people should've rebuilt humanity and learned how to deal with this virus.
@@theruiner4272 I get what you’re saying, the only thing I can definitely get behind is that Rick was over confident, with your claim that Rick should have said f this and not have attacked, the fact that Jesus said that they were confronted by the saviors and offed a 15 year old, I think that made Rick want to attack them all the more so that they would be the first to attack. It’s like the video said, the saviors definitely would have eventually found Alexandria, and who knows what they would have done. I personally don’t think it was super out of character for Rick to do this as his mindset has always been “we have to come for them before they come for us”
@@joshuasworldtour484 i see what you're saying. and I did noticed how over confident rick was at this point. But the issue is he's a father of a 15 year old and an infant daughter. And although people change, you have to remember how unwilling Rick was to go look for The Governor after he went missing. In fact he stepped down as a leader in the prison and allowed Hershel to handle things.
Now, Rick is the leader of Alexandria and I get he might want to come for them before they come for himself and the group and poses a threat to his son and daughter. And this is actually somewhat logical if your plan is to completely wipe out the saviors. I still think Rick should take action after Negan attacks them first. Like I said, I think Negan should kidnap character Rick and even Abraham (the loose cannon of the group) cares about like Glenn, Rosita/Sasha, and Michonne, and instead of just infiltrating their base, Rick would plan to conduct recon. Instead of bringing all the heavy hitter, he'd likely be accompanied with Daryl, Abraham (who'd likely force himself to go), and maybe Morgan (if we also remove that stupid Carol-insanity plotline). Abraham would likely do something stupid if he saw Rosita or Sasha being mistreated by a savior while he is on lookout, and he will get himself captured, Causing the other three to either retreat or try to save Abraham, leading to a lineup. OR, Rick, Morgan, and Daryl could kidnap one of Negan's men (Dwight) after Abraham gets captured.
Negan could be introduced with trading Dwight with Glenn, Abraham, Rosita/Sasha, and Michonne, though it's all a trap and Negan ends up lining up Glenn, Rosita/Sasha, Michonne, Daryl, Rick, and Morgan. Negan will kill Abraham. And if Negan taunts Rosita, Daryl might attack Negan and Negan will kill Daryl instead of Glenn, as I believe Daryl as a character was pretty much finished, stupid, and boring by the time that seasoned rolled around. After those two people die, Rick looses his prime enforcer and his right hand man. And we could even have a seen similar to the comics, where Maggie punches Rick for not doing anything to save Glenn. Only this time it'd be Sasha punching Rick for not doing anything to save Abraham from both being captured and getting his head bashed in.
other little things that would've made Negan a better and scarier villain: if he came across as a reasonable man, willing to negotiate with Rick and his group. Rick, Abraham, Daryl, and maybe even Morgan might've killed a few people while trying to save the other members of the group.
when it comes to All Out War, i think the end of All Out War should've been the end of the show. I think it should've been short. I think some characters that didn't die should've died during the war like Rosita and even Eugene. And I think Negan should've died. Probably killed by Glenn, as i could be the only time Glenn would kill anyone in the series. I don't think Glenn should kills some guy in his sleep. I think Negan should kill or threaten someone he cares about, like Maggie, for instance, which would drive him to kill Negan. I don't think Rick should kill Negan and I think or, Glenn killing Negan could be done like this: Negan should beat Rick almost to death, likely hyper-extend Rick's knee like he did in the comics, and Glenn should save Rick by killing Negan, even if Rick would be telling him not to kill him.
Anyways I'm getting too creative with all this lmaoo.
@@theruiner4272 it’s very interesting though lol, it’s fun to think about other scenarios on how this could have played out, I think another reason why Rick wanted to attack was because he learned his lesson from not trying to look for the governor after season 3, because although I’m not really sure if the fall of the prison was 100% ricks fault for not taking looking for the governor more seriously, but MAYBE they could have found him and ended him before he was able to get a tank and attack the prison, so I’m sure from that point on, Rick doesn’t want to take chances. That’s why when in that episode where Joe and the claimers were in ricks temporary house just scouting around, Rick took one of the guys out without question, and it turns out those guys were monsters (attempted to grape Carl and michonne) so I think that’s why not only rick wanted to attack so eagerly but also why he got a little too cocky.
a new world order saying but was designed for negan, give me your shit or i will kill you. imagine if he was an even bigger leader say for the commonwealth or the CRM. he had all the right things to say and had the firepower to do it with. the only reason he lost, he got outsmarted by the group + the loss of use from eugene. such a great character with tons of charisma, the redeem story arc was by far his best. will def go down as one of the greatest anti-heroes in an apocalyptic tv series.
This is definitely a heavy topic (in a good way) to discuss and give us a good reminder how things aren't always as grey as it seems. Too often, things are almost explicitly black and white that we as people should know what's truly right from wrong. It's the old saying unfortunately also how with people in general, history can and will repeat itself.
At least Neagan was able to atone for what he's done, but there's a good bit of people (real life and fiction) who unfortunately can't/aren't able to. Kudos on this vid and can't wait to see what you do next between these discussions and Project Zomboid
Good take, most if not every single conflict in twd is black and white. The only gray villain was dawn since she stood up against the evil cops
keep posting, im in love with your content brother
Great video man. Negan is my favorite character but it is very easy to be blinded by his charisma. Bad guy, not the worst guy in the context of there being an apocalypse, but definitely had😂. Anyways keep at it good content
Couldn’t agree more
Negan was hands down one of the greatest villains in all of media history!
I dont even think he was a villain. He was a survivor. Theres no rules in a world like that.
@@stevepalpatine2828I can see that point of view. But I’m sure Glenn, Abraham and the rest of the crew would disagree! 😂
@@stevepalpatine2828u can't justify the wives thing
Great video, very interesting subject. Thanks
Great video bro
THANK YOU for bringing up Negan's wives. I feel like no one ever mentions them and just talks about him being "redeemed" after kiling Glenn. Negan will never be redeemable to me because of his wives.
What episode was the scene at 15:00 from??
This is from Dead City.
great video ‼️
3:50 gives me goosebumps about the whole speech about People Are A Resource when i first watch it
Negan had the right idea it just got out of hand that way of life attracted the worst kinds of people, people like Simon Jared and Arat who hid things from Negan and did evil behind his back Negan ruled out of respect and fear Rick ruled out of love his group was family the saviours were just business partners the whole “we’re all Negan” is a cult tactic he made a network that was brilliant and useful but people took advantage and he also was always going to meet someone like Rick one day
An autocracy that endorses human slave labor is never the “right idea”.
@@TheRealCaptainGoldit worked for a while
I always gave a lecture to people on how Negan wasnt actually a villian and actually a fair leader 😂
There’s a massive differentiation between being a “successful” leader and a “good” leader. Negan was a successful leader and as long as he always remained stronger than the communities under his rule, the saviours were never “doomed to fail”. It’d be like saying that Kim Jon Un isn’t a successful leader just because the people of North Korea don’t live the best lives, sure he’s not a “good” or morally ethical leader but he’s a successful leader despite his methods. The same goes for Negan.
One think I’ll say is I understand why Negan did what he did in season 7 episode 1. Ricks group killed a bunch of Negan’s people and killing Abraham was really a small price to pay. But when Daryl punched negan after his warning, he did force his hand
Negan did what he did in season 7 because he always does that to any group he meets.
@@linaskranauskas Exactly.
@@linaskranauskasyou can say that but keep in mind that Rick had no verifiable evidence of this aside from the words of his own group and the group that he wanted resources from. Regardless Rick took a risk and played a hand the best way he thought was the right play. The only reason why we the audience can sympathize with Rick’s group is because we know everything that’s happening already. When you broaden your perspective you can see that Negan had no idea who these people were and that they took the first strike.
@@remington_acr1651 they did not take the first strike. watch the show. if you need to narrow your perspective to get your facts straight, please do.
You say Negan redeemed himself, but has he really? I think that's very arguable.
I'm pretty sure negan would have been fragged very quickly. People don't tolerate tyrants for long if they have the opportunity to kill them.
I wish they would provide more exposition as to how he was able to form a cult-like contingent and made his followers assume his identity as Negan.
That is true some would rather have death than being enslaved. But Negan gave them that option. Rick demanded the same thing Negan did for killing him. Rick is a better leader but really not a great one.
Being given the choice to be a slave or to be killed isn’t a choice, it’s an ultimatum given at gunpoint. Rick was always a more ethical leader. By far. Even when he was the Ricktator, everything he did was for his group. He never lived lavishly off of the labor of his people. He was always in the trenches with them and he’d always consider input, even when he was operating under a more militaristic mindset. He definitely didn’t enslave people and he usually opted to take the non-violent route before opting to escalate his use of force. Rick’s biggest downfall in season 6 was his overconfidence - which was shared by those who followed him. They all thought they were invincible. Which, of course, bit them in the a** lol
@@TheRealCaptainGold bit in the a** imagine getting bit like this in pz
"Rick is a better leader" Is he though?
Negan was establishing an Empire, Rick didnt even managed to run a small Community even once
Negan in noway was the greatest , or best character on the show. He was one of the most psychotic characters ..Another thing Negan fan’s find hard to do admit he was a “rapist” period. His so called wives didn’t want him, they feared him…. Negan’s leadership was going fall hard at some point, and it did … Excellent video BTW
I found him quite ridiculous from the start, but he got his fans.
Negan was a feudal lord.
I love the video, lots of awesome points, but am I missing an episode or issue of the comics? I never knew his last name was Smith! Was it mentioned somewhere?
rick and his group killed 50+ people well they were sleeping and all negan did was kill 2 people and glen only died because of what daryl did to negan ..he was actually pretty reasonable
Negan took it easy on Rick's group considering what they did. Rick's group killed an entire outpost of roughly 100 men. Negan only killed 2 of Rick's group. That's extremely lenient considering the situation. Rick and his people never even met him or his people (except Abraham, Sasha, and Daryl when they ran into Timmy and the dick brigade, which they also killed).
Yes Negan's way was immoral, but he really did save people. They had an economy. His people worked for food, shelter, and protection. Which is far better than being ripped apart and eaten alive by the dead. I don't agree entirely with how Negan ran things, but it was far better than the latter.
Rick and his group were acting as mercenaries for hire and murdered his people. Rick striked first. Negan had every right to do what he did. 2 dead for 100 murders? That's not even an eye for an eye by a long shot. Yes they were "bad men" but as Negan pointed out, they had wives, girlfriends, and children. Maggie was mad that he took Glen from her, but how many widows did she make?? They never striked first.
You could argue that Timmy and his biker gang would have, but the fact is that they didn't.
1.) Negan enslaved the group. That’s not exactly lenient. But let’s just presuppose you have a valid point. Why did Rick’s group attack? Because they were hired as mercenaries by Hilltop. Why did Hilltop want Negan dead? Because he enslaved them. So, who’s really to blame here? Rick’s group would have never attacked had Negan’s Saviors conducted themselves ethically. That’s why I don’t blame Rick’s group for the attack.
If you had the power to stop Nazi Germany in 1939, most people would. Yet when it comes to the Saviors, people pause. Make it make sense. No one says “Nazis had families, husbands, wives, children, etc.” If WW2 could be averted by a pre-emptive strike, most people today - with hindsight - would see the folly of the appeasement strategies used by political figures like Neville Chamberlain; the same strategies that allowed the Nazis to grow into the power they were. The same power that caused the single most devastating and fatal war in human history. Clearly a pre-emptive strike can be justified. And the Saviors? They were the predators on the block, who needed to be stopped. Surely not as bad as Nazism, but slavery sure as hell isn’t far off on the scale of immorality. What is the point of being spared or “saved” if you’re not even living for yourself??? Stop defending the indefensible.
2.) I’ll agree being “saved” by the Saviors is better than being eaten alive, but my contention is that the Saviors didn’t have to enslave people to save them. So, giving them props for “saving” people, just to subjugate them, is frankly silly from an ethical standpoint. It’s the sort of argument you make when you’re grasping at straws.
3.) We know Timmy’s lil biker gang would have found Alexandria, had they not been killed by Daryl in self-defense. Timmy was following orders, and a specific doctrine, endorsed by and established by Negan. Intentions matter. A great deal. Yeah, they never found Alexandria. But they would have, if they could. Whether you like it or not, that does matter.
Saviors did in fact strike first... how do you not know this
“But he really did save people” well look at how that turned out 😭😭😭 it’s like Rick said to negan in the episode “the key”…”sooner or later, you were gonna come across someone like me” there was also NEVER a point in the show where the saviors actually did something helpful, their presence was always intimidation and violence.
@@TheRealCaptainGolddid you forget the saviors vs Darryl Sasha and Abraham? It was gon happen sooner or later
You’re wrong btw.
It's very grimdark feeling when you consider Negan, a true villain, got a redemption arc while Shane died a monster lol. Good stuff, keeps your world grounded.
*granted someone like Negan couldn't have lasted long in this environment. Too many enemies
Will you be doing a "Was he right?" video on the Governor too?
17:10 There was NO sexual exploitation. Those women might have been pressured to become a wife, but it was ultimately up to them. Maybe the benefits outweighed the cons. Maybe they felt it was better to just 'go along with it'. But he didn't force them, as if they were sex-slaves. Negan killed his own trusted man, when that man decided to get fresh with a prisoner. Apparently, you don't understand just how much emphasis there was on 'the rules'. I didn't see any 'slavery'. I saw two classes of people. 'Trusted and untrusted'. If you were trusted, you were respected. Even those within his own camp were well on their way to becoming 'trusted members'... it was those in Oceanside, Hilltop, Kingdom, and Alexandria that were 'untrusted' outsiders. If I had to guess, Kingdom was probably next in line to become part of the Saviors, with King Ezekiel still in charge, but not having to 'provide'. Next might have been Hilltop, if they had gone through with killing Gregory as their 'final test'.
Negan did have a council, maybe more like 'department heads' like you might find in a corporation. You want to talk about 'extreme social inequality', and tell me about the differences between the corporate officers, and the janitors/worker-bees. Tell me about the difference between someone busting their ass, and bringing home $1000 per week, and someone who is bringing home millions per year, just for sitting in an office between games of golf and trips to the Bahamas.
"Social Darwinism" I had to look that up online just to try to figure out what you are even talking about... and No, that didn't think of themselves as 'superior' because of their race. They instead had the same kind of bravado, that one might find, if they were working for a nationally recognized corporation.
"Despotism"... Really? You think the saviors were all despots? Or do you think that title alone goes to Negan himself? The man was trying to build something out of nothing. He not only had to lead, but to be the example... but in your mind, he was doing everything by himself? Did you even watch the show?
"Pro-slavery" Name one 'slave master'. Name one 'slave'. You can't, because you made that up. Say it again, "People are a resource", now the way you say it, you make them out to be slaves. Eugene, a scientist, he can make bullets, and he can probably make 'other stuff'. That makes him 'resourceful'. The 'doctor' and his brother the 'doctor', they can fix people, cure sickness, that also makes them a resource. Got military training, hand-to-hand combat skills, do I need to say it... 'resourceful'. Everyone is, or can be 'resourceful' and hence, a 'resource'... not a slave. So spit that word out of your mouth.
"Dehumanization"... wow, I can tell that you never served in the military. Because we were all 'dehumanized' in boot camp. We all had our heads shaved, treated like cattle, brain-washed, and told to 'follow orders without question'. That's how I can tell you never served. Because you look at the way Daryl was treated, and call that 'dehumanizing'. Let's face it. Daryl is a tough cookie. But if you could win him over, you could probably win over all of Rick's group without violence. Negan tried really hard with Daryl. If that mean breaking down his loyalty to Rick, then that was well worth the gamble. And let's not forget. Daryl broke ranks and actually punched Negan... That's how Negan knew that Daryl was willing to do the right thing, even if it was the 'wrong time' to do it.
Now, step back, review the show and consider how things could have been different, if Rick had let Gregory die, and didn't attack the people at the satellite location. What if Rick and Negan had met on neutral ground, on fair terms, and just got to know each other. What if Rick's group agreed to cooperate with the Saviors, sure, there might have been some rough patches, but consider those colonies that resisted. Oceanside got their men wiped out, because they resisted. Hilltop lost their weapons because they fought back. Kingdom... I don't really know what the kingdom lost.. maybe they didn't resist. Alexandria... Didn't Carl pull a gun? Didn't Denise try to hide some food? Wasn't there some guns missing from the logbooks? Those mistakes only cost them some supplies and their mattresses. And Rick, was the most violent aggressor the Saviors encountered.
Thank you. People saw multiple wives and automatically jumped to some Hollywood Island bs.
Like you pointed out negan blatantly says that he didn't force the wives, and that it was their choice to be with him rather than be part of the workers downstairs. If one day they decided they didn't want to be there anymore, they would find her a job, and she would be on her way.
They say negan exploits people, but Rick's groups original plan at Alexandria was to take over. Their plan.. was to exploit them LOL
People always want to jump to whatever team is assigned as the good guys whether it be reckon them. Or bear with me bringing up a different show game of thrones with the starks. A lot of people just jump on team Stark cuz they have honor, meanwhile most people in real life don't have honor, and they themselves are more like freys.
Dude, coercion is still sexual exploitation. Especially in the case where it's sleep with me and you'll get your medicine or whatever it is that you need. The "choice" they have is sleep with him or die essentially. That by definition is still rape, sexual coercion, and incredibly fucked up.
If someone threatens a woman to shoot her husband if she wont have sex with him, this is obviously rape and sex-slavery. The reason why he would shoot the husband is completely irrelevant for this. If the US-president would offer a woman to pardon her husband from death penalty, if she has sex with him, this is rape. And this is what Negan did.
I remember seeing many men saying this when those episodes aired, and it was clear most don’t truly understand what rape/sexual assault is.. The main , and most important part of rape “force, coercion, ~~abuse of authority~~~ against a person who is incapable of giving valid consent”.. Going along out of fear is mental coercion, something far greater than physical force , it’s not true consent. Until our society gets a clue sexual assault will always be a huge problem.
@@onlyalisaawilliams I agree, Negan did use his influence to put a woman between a rock and a hard place, as a means of intimidation to get what he wanted. But, he did that with men too.
He forced Rick to cut off Carl's arm, threatened to pull out his other eye, and feed it to Rick, if he didn't. When faced with that choice, it was only when Rick broke down into tears (and the snot bubble), that Negan pulled his 'power play'.
Only in that situation, I really don't think that Rick had any other choice. When Rick finally resolved himself that the only way to save anyone's life, was to cut off Carl's arm... that was the final straw that Negan wanted.
Now we don't know each and every situation behind each of Negan's wives. It could very well be, that a lot of people were going to go through a whole lot of pain, if they didn't 'marry' him. All we know is that his 'harem' wanted him dead.
I think that this was Negan 'making rules' and then 'justifying himself' for breaking the rules. I agree, it was completely wrong of him to do this... and it was worse, that no one stood up, and called him out for it.
I think in his head, it was not just control over his harem, but control over everyone. Who would dare step up and object to him, even IF he were breaking his own rules.. And that's probably what pleased him more than any form of sexual actions with the women. I hope that is making sense.
He left them an 'out', but probably like the kind of 'out' we might see in a Saw movie. There would be blood, there would be pain, and maybe there would be death, or maybe... maybe if someone had some king kong balls, and told him off, he might find some respect for that person.
If he can't rule from a point of 'respect' then he'll rule from a point of 'fear'.
Now here is what we do know of Negan. He didn't force every woman to marry him. He actually had several females in positions of authority. I don't know, maybe some of those women scared him deep down where a man doesn't want to admit it.
But his wives were weak. So weak in fact, that they would rather give up their real husbands and sleep with the enemy. Now that, is a special kind of weak. So, yes, I do think that there was a difference.
His wives were 'treated' well. At least a lot better than the scrubs and underlings that had to 'bow' in Negan's presence. If they had a want, they could just take, but they didn't, because they knew it was taking out of someone else's hand to do so.
I don't think that it was ever really about sex to Negan, it was about power and control. Look at how long he put up with Simon, waiting on him to step up and become his right-hand man. Problem was, is that Simon did things his own way.
People died, resources were squandered, and in the end, Simon challenged Negan to take his throne. Could you imagine what would happen if Simon was running that place? That! Is some scary shit.
While it might have been a gilded cage, it was still a cage. But compare the saviors to the claimers... the Terminites... and the governor. I could give examples of what each of those groups could have done... but I think you have enough imagination.
Don't let my praise of the saviors, leave you with the idea that I thought they were the 'best thing going'... not in the least. But between the Wolves, the Whisperers, or Rick's psychotic emotions... The saviors weren't nearly as bad.
You're definitely wrong in one area. It doesn't matter what could of would of happened. Ricks group initiated a war with a group they knew nothing about. He created an act of war. It doesn't matter what could or would have happened because rick already took action.
They knew from Hilltop that the Saviors were violent and oppressive, and that they weren’t good-faithed negotiators. It was explained to them, by Jesus, that the Saviors killed a 16 year old, then subjugated the community and instituted a 50% tax on all resources - all because they wanted to. Rick’s group knew more than enough to justify acting. And technically, the Saviors attacked Daryl, Abraham and Sasha BEFORE Rick attacked the Outpost. The Saviors were technically the ones who attacked first. Which they would have done anyway once they formally found Alexandria. So, no, I’m definitely not wrong. Just rewatch the series please lol
What they lacked was proper intelligence on the size and strength of the Savior’s forces. But what would have happened? That does matter. It was obvious the Saviors were a predatory force. Pre-emptive wars can be justified. And this is one very clear example of a justified attack that wasn’t properly conducted.
@@TheRealCaptainGold plus they were starving at alexandria and hiltop said they would help them iff they wiped out the Saviors and got there man back so rick did what he had to.
@@TheRealCaptainGold So you just trust the word of some random group you just met in good faith? The hilltop could of simply been lying. Rick is an anti hero at best. He only only looks out for his group. Hell Negan chose not to kill Ricks entire group and was more than generous with Carl after doing what he did. I'm not saying Negan is a good guy, but neither is Rick. You could make a case that he's actually a villain along with his entire group.
@@ThouArtOfWar0724
Rick is an anti-hero? Way to show you don’t understand the show at all lol no offense bud, but that’s a seriously bad take.
Rick was skeptical of Jesus - that was sorta figured out before the deal. Did you not watch the show at all???
And no, you can’t make a case for Rick being a villain. That’s also a comedically bad take. And no, Negan wasn’t generous with Rick’s group. He enslaved them. He only kept Carl alive because he respected him and because he didn’t want worsen tensions with Rick. Rick and his group were a resource to be exploited. An entire community slaving away for you is worth two to four men’s lives under that formula.
You needa rewatch the series my guy.
@@ThouArtOfWar0724But they weren’t lying so it’s an irrelevant point. The Hilltop’s accusation matched exactly with Abraham, Sasha, and Daryl’s run in with saviors.
Ngl, this actually gave me more perspective than I had watching the show. I always thought Negan was only seen as the antagonist bc he was against Rick and I thought “if Negan was the protagonist and Rick was the antagonist, we’d see Negan as the good guy and Rick as evil” but now it’s pretty clear that Negan was genuinely worse than Rick. I’m glad I watched this
This is a great video. I like how things were broken down and " bullet points."👍
The people who support Donald Trump would just love Negan
That's a weird comparison
Yes, Negan was a monster. But his many monologues were absolute comedy gold!