line array is clever idea and very suitable on large and crowded area with uneven acoustic environment. the biggest drawback (in my opinion) in point source reinforcement maybe is very predictable resonance particularly in open space area,
Inductance causes distortion though so he's not wrong either. That isn't the only factor of course, but inductance is something end users typically know nothing about. Everyone knows about bottoming out drivers or amplifier distortion etc
By boosting 12 dB at 10 KHz to account for air absorbtion, will that not be to loud at that specific frequency in front of the stage? If with a point source you lose 6 dB for every doubling of distance , then you will have aproximately 32 dB more @1 m from the speakers then at 100 m from the speaker, not a very constant volume,but a very huge difference.You will only have constant pressure from 64m to 128 m from the speakers.
From my experiences you duck under the big horn at close range outside of the focus of hi frequencies; a smaller unit covers the spece under and near the main unit.
Il video lascia un po' il tempo che trova. Per nullo scientifico nelle spiegazioni tanto che uno che ci capisce un po' potrebbe obbiettare su tutto. L'idea di fondo invece si capisce molto meglio nella descrizione. Se invece di cercare di screditare i sistemi line array aveste puntato sui vantaggi che un sistema come il vostro porta avreste forse destato più interesse. Il vhd5 sarei davvero curioso di sentirlo con 50k persone a 50mt dal main. Questo video comunque non ha fatto scendere la mia stima verso George e il fascino dei suoi progetti.
Essentially he is just talking about the time difference of arrivals between different loudspeakers. Imagine you have a very fast signal, think a snap or something, not bass or guitar. Now imagine that there are multiple arrivals of that sound signal coming in over 2ms. What happens now is that instead of the snap being crisp it will lose its definition and its edges get blurred due to same signals arriving at the same time. So if the signals arrive at different times with the same sound signal it will be comparable to hitting play on multiple sound devices (f.x. phones) almost simultaneously so you can easily try out how it sounds, not completely representative though since one usually does not have that kind of precision for clicking play. Hope that helps. you could also simulate this easily on some DAW software by copying a snappy signal to another channel and move it around by 1-2ms.
Over 2ms ? that would be 1m or more .. the tilt angle of the linearray, at that distance is only a few degrees. you will never ever get more than .1m of delay.
I´m not really talking about line arrays in particular mind you, I am simply describing the effect mentioned in the video that he is asking about. I feel that by exaggerating such effects it can be easier to understand the topic, specifically with this topic I wouldn´t want to give the impression of something that could be ignored so I chose a size that I felt was large enough to express the phenomenon clearly.
'Could you please elaborate the topic between 1:52 and 3:37' Yes. the explanation in this video is misleading. Curved arrays have have no time smearing problem, just large straight arrays have.
@@csabesz78 But a curved array moves into the realm of a hang of groups of close coupled composite point sources. Indoors you can count on room gain to increase the LF region in SPL to match the mid-to-high cylindrical wavefront at a given distance and of course, you can try to improve the air absorption by changing both magnitude and phase alignement of the sources at far distances, but the modern approaches of MLA, Anya, and Array Processing essentially reduce the hang to a vertical cluster of point sources with very complicated and advanced processing. A single point source is great in theory, but in practice, everyone is already deploying point sources now, but very imperfect ones. If you begin with a better point source, and compensate using the same methods and techniques, you can get the best of both worlds.
12:43 .. you have to ..'uch uch'.. account a bit of losses ?? ... how about account DOUBLE the losses .. 6dB per distance doubling vs 3dB for a line source.
dB is only a proportional unit, so if he says, that at 50m the loss is -6dB and at 100m it is -12dB at higher frequencies, he is also saying, that at double distance you loose 6dB in reference to first point ;)
Athough for an average line array it's usually only a 3dB loss from about 10 to 20 feet, 4-5dB from 20 to 40 feet and 6dB from 40 to 80 feet. It doesn't have any SPL advantage afar it simply loses SPL up front, (although no audience members are standing a metre in front of the line array anyway)
Around minute 6 he talks about how they flattened the impedance. Is he suggesting the use of a zobel network to achieve this in a line array? It would appear so, but I didn't think impedance was related to time delay inherent in line arrays due to the multiple drivers. I'm a noob wanting to design hifi home speakers on a budget. I imagine all large venue problems can be solved by throwing money and software at the problem. Clearly this is not feasible for me and many others.
As I remember they use 18sound drivers, there is a copper ring in the pole-piece under the voice coil. Impedance (inductance) is not a problem, but inductance modulation is a problem for PA speakers. This is a large signal effect, and can't be cured with DIRAC LIVE (impulse response is a small signal phenomenon).
I'm afraid this word is not the most important one of all inside this video, man :o)) He does say shorted "do you know ?" similar to "do you understand?". In our language it is normal, street style, but he used it in English too. We are sorry to all world! We only find(invented)for all world: HIV antivirotikum(brake)2004 Smallpox antivirotikum1996 contact lenses1961 microwaves 1924inCzechRepublic (inUSA1945), ing.Kaplans turbine 1910, Polarograf 1921for atom weighing ,and atom particles weighing differential arc lamp 1880 bustle 1823 first electric tram 1891 lightning rod 1754 propeller 1820 and now KV2audio supersensitive systems Do you know, or understand, man?
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. As a systems designer, I use both line-source and point-source systems. Neither is superior for every application. Each space has their own requirements. Please go see SynAudCon and get into the room where systems designs are not based upon marketing products.
@@TerryPullen They do interfere with each other at all frequencies. Each manufacturer handles this their own way. Some use ribbons transducers, some use close spacing, some have special FIR filters and other DSP...
"No". I don't have a problem with it. English is not his first language and it is a filler word. However I do thing it is truly bizarre how so many people will start virtually every sentence with a he word "so". They sound like morons to me.
The explanation in this video is completely wrong, there is no such time smearing in true line arrays (curved arrays) and the inductance explanation is terrible too.
Can no one see that they are being bullshitted? He just spent 15 mins hiding something. That something is the flat panel speaker, which is going to subsume the conventional driver, eventually.what he is talking about horns and midrange drivers is just bone-less shit. Believe me, I have my own system and the transducers cost less than £100 and the bass can be felt 3 doors down the road.
Excellent explanation of the physics behind different speaker configurations!
It was very informative.
Now I understand why the Point Source Boxes sound a lot better.
We only use Point Source Vintage Sound System. Great video guys!!
Understood more than i thought i would lol.
Great stuff thanks!
Coming from Danley videos; point source horned everything!!!
thanks :) so what kv speaker fits this video? do u still use a sub? cost?
So all these column array portable speakers being made these days use a big bag of dsp to control feedback?
It seems like more companies are following in Danley Sound Labs' footsteps now
NO 😂
line array is clever idea and very suitable on large and crowded area with uneven acoustic environment. the biggest drawback (in my opinion) in point source reinforcement maybe is very predictable resonance particularly in open space area,
Enter: Danley
Hear and Believe
"No Inductance, No Distortion"
For real now?
I wish it was that simple.
Inductance causes distortion though so he's not wrong either. That isn't the only factor of course, but inductance is something end users typically know nothing about. Everyone knows about bottoming out drivers or amplifier distortion etc
By boosting 12 dB at 10 KHz to account for air absorbtion, will that not be to loud at that specific frequency in front of the stage?
If with a point source you lose 6 dB for every doubling of distance , then you will have aproximately 32 dB more @1 m from the speakers then at 100 m from the speaker, not a very constant volume,but a very huge difference.You will only have constant pressure from 64m to 128 m from the speakers.
From my experiences you duck under the big horn at close range outside of the focus of hi frequencies; a smaller unit covers the spece under and near the main unit.
No one is going to be standing 1m in front of the HF horn getting their ears blasted.
NO
bananenking YES 😂
Il video lascia un po' il tempo che trova. Per nullo scientifico nelle spiegazioni tanto che uno che ci capisce un po' potrebbe obbiettare su tutto. L'idea di fondo invece si capisce molto meglio nella descrizione. Se invece di cercare di screditare i sistemi line array aveste puntato sui vantaggi che un sistema come il vostro porta avreste forse destato più interesse. Il vhd5 sarei davvero curioso di sentirlo con 50k persone a 50mt dal main. Questo video comunque non ha fatto scendere la mia stima verso George e il fascino dei suoi progetti.
Could you please elaborate the topic between 1:52 and 3:37?
Essentially he is just talking about the time difference of arrivals between different loudspeakers. Imagine you have a very fast signal, think a snap or something, not bass or guitar. Now imagine that there are multiple arrivals of that sound signal coming in over 2ms. What happens now is that instead of the snap being crisp it will lose its definition and its edges get blurred due to same signals arriving at the same time. So if the signals arrive at different times with the same sound signal it will be comparable to hitting play on multiple sound devices (f.x. phones) almost simultaneously so you can easily try out how it sounds, not completely representative though since one usually does not have that kind of precision for clicking play. Hope that helps.
you could also simulate this easily on some DAW software by copying a snappy signal to another channel and move it around by 1-2ms.
Over 2ms ? that would be 1m or more .. the tilt angle of the linearray, at that distance is only a few degrees. you will never ever get more than .1m of delay.
I´m not really talking about line arrays in particular mind you, I am simply describing the effect mentioned in the video that he is asking about. I feel that by exaggerating such effects it can be easier to understand the topic, specifically with this topic I wouldn´t want to give the impression of something that could be ignored so I chose a size that I felt was large enough to express the phenomenon clearly.
'Could you please elaborate the topic between 1:52 and 3:37'
Yes. the explanation in this video is misleading. Curved arrays have have no time smearing problem, just large straight arrays have.
@@csabesz78 But a curved array moves into the realm of a hang of groups of close coupled composite point sources. Indoors you can count on room gain to increase the LF region in SPL to match the mid-to-high cylindrical wavefront at a given distance and of course, you can try to improve the air absorption by changing both magnitude and phase alignement of the sources at far distances, but the modern approaches of MLA, Anya, and Array Processing essentially reduce the hang to a vertical cluster of point sources with very complicated and advanced processing. A single point source is great in theory, but in practice, everyone is already deploying point sources now, but very imperfect ones. If you begin with a better point source, and compensate using the same methods and techniques, you can get the best of both worlds.
No
12:43 .. you have to ..'uch uch'.. account a bit of losses ?? ... how about account DOUBLE the losses .. 6dB per distance doubling vs 3dB for a line source.
it's only in theory
dB is only a proportional unit, so if he says, that at 50m the loss is -6dB and at 100m it is -12dB at higher frequencies, he is also saying, that at double distance you loose 6dB in reference to first point ;)
Athough for an average line array it's usually only a 3dB loss from about 10 to 20 feet, 4-5dB from 20 to 40 feet and 6dB from 40 to 80 feet. It doesn't have any SPL advantage afar it simply loses SPL up front, (although no audience members are standing a metre in front of the line array anyway)
DIRAC LIVE solves the Impulse response problem .....
Around minute 6 he talks about how they flattened the impedance. Is he suggesting the use of a zobel network to achieve this in a line array?
It would appear so, but I didn't think impedance was related to time delay inherent in line arrays due to the multiple drivers.
I'm a noob wanting to design hifi home speakers on a budget. I imagine all large venue problems can be solved by throwing money and software at the problem. Clearly this is not feasible for me and many others.
As I remember they use 18sound drivers, there is a copper ring in the pole-piece under the voice coil. Impedance (inductance) is not a problem, but inductance modulation is a problem for PA speakers.
This is a large signal effect, and can't be cured with DIRAC LIVE (impulse response is a small signal phenomenon).
Clone this guy !!!!
Why does he keep saying "no"?
"now".
I'm afraid this word is not the most important one of all inside this video, man :o))
He does say shorted "do you know ?" similar to "do you understand?".
In our language it is normal, street style, but he used it in English too.
We are sorry to all world!
We only find(invented)for all world:
HIV antivirotikum(brake)2004
Smallpox antivirotikum1996
contact lenses1961
microwaves 1924inCzechRepublic (inUSA1945),
ing.Kaplans turbine 1910,
Polarograf 1921for atom weighing ,and atom particles weighing
differential arc lamp 1880
bustle 1823
first electric tram 1891
lightning rod 1754
propeller 1820
and now KV2audio supersensitive systems
Do you know, or understand, man?
To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. As a systems designer, I use both line-source and point-source systems. Neither is superior for every application. Each space has their own requirements. Please go see SynAudCon and get into the room where systems designs are not based upon marketing products.
Can you explain how speakers in a line array don't cancel or interfere with each other at high frequencies?
@@TerryPullen They do interfere with each other at all frequencies. Each manufacturer handles this their own way. Some use ribbons transducers, some use close spacing, some have special FIR filters and other DSP...
Should I use a point source? "no"
Should I use a line array? "No"
Should I rehearse my presentation before recording? "no"
😂😂😂
"No".
I don't have a problem with it. English is not his first language and it is a filler word. However I do thing it is truly bizarre how so many people will start virtually every sentence with a he word "so". They sound like morons to me.
--I'm a BernieBro Bitch-- The one that gets me is people starting a sentence with 'What I mean'.
NO
What he's trying to say is. !! You know. Isn't that obviously ?? No?
The explanation in this video is completely wrong, there is no such time smearing in true line arrays (curved arrays) and the inductance explanation is terrible too.
Cool but you may have to prove that using physics. He did.
No
Can no one see that they are being bullshitted? He just spent 15 mins hiding something. That something is the flat panel speaker, which is going to subsume the conventional driver, eventually.what he is talking about horns and midrange drivers is just bone-less shit. Believe me, I have my own system and the transducers cost less than £100 and the bass can be felt 3 doors down the road.
No