How to Quiet Pipes With a Water Hammer Arrestor | This Old House
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 09. 2014
- Silencing noisy pipes with This Old House plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey. (See below for a shopping list and tools.)
SUBSCRIBE to This Old House: bit.ly/SubscribeThisOldHouse
Shopping List for Quieting Pipes With a Water Hammer Arrestor:
- water hammer arrestors
- copper T-fittings
- lead-free solder and flux
- emery cloth
- teflon tape
- plastic pipe clip and 1 5/8-inch screw
Tools for Quieting Pipes With a Water Hammer Arrestor:
- screwdriver
- tubing cutter
- propane torch
- adjustable wrench
- drill/driver
About This Old House TV:
This Old House is the No. 1 multimedia home enthusiast brand, offering trusted information and expert advice through award-winning television, a highly regarded magazine, and an information-driven website. This Old House and Ask This Old House are produced by This Old House Ventures, LLC and are presented on PBS by WETA Washington, DC.
Follow This Old House and Ask This Old House:
Facebook: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseFB
Twitter: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseTwitter
bit.ly/AskTOHTwitter
Pinterest: bit.ly/ThisOldHousePinterest
Instagram: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseIG
bit.ly/AskTOHIG
Tumblr: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseTumblr
For more on This Old House and Ask This Old House, visit us at: bit.ly/ThisOldHouseWebsite
How to Quiet Pipes With a Water Hammer Arrestor | This Old House
/ thisoldhouse - Jak na to + styl
lol. i can't remember the last house i've been to that has an access panel.
Really? My house's downstairs bathroom has an access panel to the back of the tub in the master bedroom, but the house is older. The upstairs bathroom that was redone around 2003 has no access panel.
Most houses built after the 70's weren't built with access panels. This change was due to the use of sheetrock which is much easier to repair than plaster and lathe. Also some jurisdictions may require an access panel but none that I've worked in.
It has been required code for a very long time.
My first house had two. I think people only do it once a disaster happens they don’t want to repeat. Lol.
I've never seen one personally.
"I have a cutaway". Richard always does!
Not in the case of the RV unit bathroom shower knobs.
He had to make his own cutaway behind a kitchen cabinet.
It doesn't hurt to write a date on them. Applies to furnace filter, anode rod too
Oh! How convenient... we have an access panel.
The arrestor is not only there to quiet the noise, the arrestor is really there to prevent damage to your piping. The shockwave caused by the rapid closing of the valves can damage your piping over time.
Including loosening screws inside brittle walls.
True.
@OneDayAfterAnother No. Arrestors are the simple comprehensive solution. You cannot possibly stop others from turning water on/off slowly -- unless you installed special hardware to do just that. Such things are done for industrial systems, but not in homes.
23 years pipe still looks fine
Wow. What a convenient place to have an access panel. Looks like I need to cut one of those
Many homes in the states are built like that.
@@jeanm7508 mainly the older ones though, I'm pretty sure the newer ones don't have them, mine is new and it doesn't have one
Excellent job
I would have preferred to see how it sounded when the play in the pipe was fixed before installing the hammer device because now we don't know what fixed the problem.
Holding the pipe can avoid noise but not the water hammer effect, which would in any case release the inertia into another element of the system.
agree
He totally bumps the wood and makes the same sound. Probably would’ve been fixed by just securing the pipe... start there at least!!
sdmerkr guess you must be deaf. he said that if he just secured the pipe it probably would've fixed it. however since the pipes go to different areas, adding the arrestors would ensure that the effect would not transfer somewhere else. you donkey.
ri mar who said that? I didnt see that anywhere?
👍👍👍👍👍Thanks for sharing !
Finally a homeowner on this show that's older than 45 and looks like a real person.
EyeOnTheTV hes so cute I want to adopt him as my grandpa
lmfao
Grumpy grandpa over here needs to take his nap already. And up those pills.
what
EyeOnTheTV, a very overweight homeowner. :-)
Can those be placed anywhere in the house or do they have to go close to where the sound is coming from?
He said he heard the sound also with the dishwasher on the first floor and washing machine in the basement. Wonder if that took care of all the problems.
Good
job
Satisfying.
Just so happens theres an access panel lucky
Easy to make an access panel or just cut a hole and patch the drywall after.
makes the commercial easier lol
Amazing
"What do you hear?"
"Just water."
"As it should be."
Your name is Harvey Doughnut and that is awesome.
Easy job for Richard. He didn't even put on his little tiny glasses and didn't mention plumbers putty.
Does it matter how close/far you install this to the facets thats causing the air hammers?
Nice
next time before stopping the pipe from shaking can you please install the Hammer Device to see how it absorbs the shoks ? and after that secure it with a bolt ? :)
The arrestor is not only there to quiet the noise, the arrestor is really there to prevent damage to your piping. The shockwave caused by the rapid closing of the valves can damage your piping over time.
@ 1:23
Had a silent laugh...
Giggity!
Do you need one of those in every water opening or is one enough for the whole house
My plumber just fitted on next to the stopcock. It cured the banging from all the devices.
I hear that same thing from our between the walls of our water heater closet and the guest bathroom
Maybe a ghost?
Bend the pipe for clearance like I did. Perfect !!
let's replace the access panel BEFORE we test out if it worked, LOL
I'm sure it was tested but they edited it out just like they didn't show him soldering the pipes, in tv it's all about time and not boring the audience.
Rookie mistake
I ordered some to connect to the washing machine connection as when I put a new valve on the machine it started to bang. I assume because the new valve closes faster than the old one did. Is there any style better than another? Nothing else bangs in my house plumbing wise…
Hi. Can this be used for domestic closed loop water central heating installations?
I would love to have seen the pipes moving around before the fix.
Probably just needed to secure the pipe from moving lol
The bath in my 2 year old garage has a pinging near the main shut off. System is pex. Sound is intermittent and not necessarily linked to any water running. Any ideas?
Would a water hammer arrestor work on a hot water heating system. Eveytime the thermostat shuts the zone valave on the return it bangs the entire home.
Maybe after 23 years his wife finally left so he can hear the water hammer noise for the first time
haha, you made my day sir :)
She is buried in the basement behind another convenient access panel.
instablaster
@@fornello123 You beat me to it!! I was going to say that.
Hahaha, you deserve a cold beer Sir.
Oh how convenient an access panel
"As it should be" Richard needs to get tshirts made, new catchphrase
lol. that noise is nothing compared to mine, and I don't even do it as I live in a unit in the same house with 3 other people. If they close the tap quickly, I get hammered 3 metres from where I usually sit and the noise is similar to someone bashing on my window. 8 months later and its so annoying, and my landlord has tried fixing it using a plumber but it still occurs. So annoying !
I have an Ever Hot hot water dispenser at my kitchen sink. How do I get rid of a water hammer on this thing?
I was expecting to see the cartridge type arrestor
I like it, how long do they last?
The ones he used have a Schrader valve on them so you can recharge them if need be, so they should last a good long time.
Do these parts have to be replaced periodically? esp. the rubber bladder ones?
I have a mini Sioux Chief which I find now after three years I have banging back. Easily screwed on washing machine.
What pressure should they be adjusted or recharged to? Is there any difference on how much to charge them with public water vs well pump vs gravity feed?
They should be charged to match the water pressure in your house. Your house should be between 40 and 80psi. Under and you will take crappy showers, over you can burst parts on your washing machine.
appliances are rated for 60 psi operation
Do I have to install the arrest near where the pipe gives noise? What if I have access to the pipe that is some feet away from the noise occurs.
I have a twenty foot hot water return, that I am getting water hammer from, the sound is only noticeable during the winter months. I also notice that the return pipe has dropped 5 inches out of it bracket. will a hammer arrestor solve that issue?
Put some new hangers on, and don't let the pipe touch wood.
What kind of arrester do I need for a sprinkler system that creates a big bang when the sprinklers close?
same kind that he's installing
You can add same as was installed here or get one that’s normally sold for washing machine add-on arrestor. Just put it between spigot and whatever valve you have on your sprinkler. For example, a hose connected to the irrigation system if it’s a small drip system or one of the ones he installed if you have a larger directly plumbed system.
@@jimk5307 Thx.
Good job but should have shown how to solder when near to very dry timber with a blow lamp using a heat may and having a fire extinguisher on hand.
Use a spray bottle and give the timbers around the pipe a good soaking before you start soldering.
Repeated banging is usually because the pipes were not secured against rattling, as we saw behind the access panel.
The most common place for the origins of water hammer is the non-return valve normally installed on the HWU, but also it can come from a clothes washing machine.
Usually WMs are connected with flexible hose and their inlet goes through an electrical solenoid shut-off valve.
When that valve shuts of the water, the shock wave goes through to the jumper valve in the washing machine cocks and reverberates back causing the hose connection to expand creating another wave back to the valve. The jumper valve acts as a non-return valve. Shutting the valves off after washing is finished, should eliminate it there.
My experience is to install a coil of polybutil pipe at the hot water and the cold water connections on the top and bottom of the hot water unit. The expansion is taken up withing the coils.
Water hammer reducers break down in time and quickly, if water pressure is high. Mine did because the pressure was 880kp. That's 127.6 psi!
Access panel? How convenient.
I have a two story home with multiple sinks, toilets and showers. Each and everyone one them makes the hammer noise. What is the solution? I do believe there is some type of arrestor in the garage with an on and off lever. What is the solution?
That thing you see in your garage with the lever close by is a pressure regulator and the lever valve is the whole house water valve for the water coming in from the street. Advice is to add a small hammer arrestor at each fixture and each supply especially the ones with electric valves like washers, dryers (with steam) and sprinkler timers. Then see if that helps enough.
Does anyone know if you can install multiple WHAs on the same line to double your protection?
If you really want to, you can.
The bible of maintenance 🙏
Our rental had a long like an airplane taking off sound buzz or humm... Mostly when the toilet was still filling back up and someone used the sink real quick....was very loud and annoying. Thru whole house
Put a new fill valve in the toilet
That loose pipe accidentally worked as a dampener so the hammer effect doesn't travel down to more critical parts of the piping :)
Damper, not dampener. brians.wsu.edu/2016/05/25/damped-dampened/
If dampness fixed the problem, we'd never need to install water shock arrestors.
Why doesn't my Amtrol air bladder for my well pump, act as an arrestor for the whole system?
The trick is to get these as close to the valve causing the issue as you can; the goal is to catch the “surge” before it reaches the majority of the system. It can lead to adding a number of them in the house.
now how do I stop the banging from the apartment upstairs, I was thinking of a murder plot.
Is she hot? Maybe go borrow a cup of sugar from her. Just saying.
@Leopold I'll let you take the progressive angle, LOL. I'm going more conventional. I love T&A 🤘🤘
Just make sure to document it in CZcams comments.
an old plummet taught me to never touch the area of the pipe that will be soldered
Yeah, you could melt your hands
The original plumber could have avoided any hammer noise when the house was built by extending the feed pipe to the faucets about 6" higher than the "T' feeding the hot and cold and capping the pipe. We have done that for 30 years and never had a noise problem like this.
Great reply. Sounds like knowledge that has been lost. Surprised TOH is unaware.
I agree. I do that alot.
Don't they eventually fill up with water?
@@kurtvonfricken6829 The capped pipes need to be vertical and the combination of gravity and the capping (no way for the air to escape) prevents the air from escaping. Some plumbers call them "shock absorbers"...
Right, those need to be vertical (air rises) and every once in a while you need to drain the pipes since water will slowly absorb the air and the cylinder will be filled with water. So all in all the manufactured once probably work better for most folks. Also, the ones he installed here look like they are rechargeable via the valve in the “top”. That way you can both add charge to match the water pressure and recharge it if it loses a little air. Same principle as the expansion tank on the water heater.
I just saw the video .wondering why you did not strap that hot water line first and them install the choker absorber
Leaving the hot water line loose like that made it easier to fit in his tee.
@@lilturk726 although the solder was sloppy looking.
When those fail, drywall has to be cut again!
I have had to replace my piston type anti-hammer device periodically, can't remember exactly, may be every 4 to 6 years. However I have now found out the device (piston type) can be repaired, here is how:
1. After removing, drill a small hole. in the center of the end. (#21 drill for a #10 sheet metal screw)
2. Insert a thin rod through the whole and push the piston all the way back. (The piston has bottomed out, that is why it's not working anymore.)
3. I sealed the hole with # 10 sheet metal screw and a rubber and metal washer. It has been working fine for some time now. (Or you can try to seal the hole with two-part epoxy, let epoxy fully cure. If epoxy fails the piston will prevent water from leaking out!)
4. Reinstall.
Shouldn't those be installed pointing up so the water drains back into the pipe, rather than have water sit inside the thing below the level of the fitting leading into it?
Lol
drain back into the pipe?? lol its pressurized water line how can it ever "drain" back in unless the main valve is off
@@darrenr1194 because of the pressure differencial. The water pressure first increases then decreases back to normal.
He choose the house with access panel. Lol
if i have 1/2inch copper tube, what size of T fitting have to be there
1/2 in
If you have to ask this question, do not attempt the repair!
The fitting is already slightly bigger so it’ll fit the pipe, just get the corresponding size
1/2" × 1/2" copper by 1/2" female tee
or tighten the washer on the faucet thats banging
Sir hello i m plumber from India
Well this is all fine and dandy. But what the heck is the product make and model? I am desperately trying to stop my water pump from cycling on and off 3 times a second every time the frigging washing machine valve slaps shut!! HELP!!!!!!!!
+Zachrey Helmberger He told you what they are freak'n google them or look an Home Depot!
Water Hammer Arrestor, 1/2 In NPT, 150 psi on Amazon
Search "1/2 in. Brass Water Hammer Arrester Kit for Washing Machine Valves" at home depot. is that what you need?
Watts LF150A
Why didn't they do anything about it 23 years ago
Maybe they didn't know how cheap a fix would be and thought they'd get used to it.
I see the same in some companies with old managers.
They thought it was just the daughter's headboard
As a rule, society is ignorant about phase-dependent frequency-dependent mechanical phenomena. If parents understood the clear and present danger of frequency-dependent phenomena at trampoline parks, the would never ever bring their small children to those parks. Look at what people say here: some suggest the problem can be "fixed" simply by securing the pipes. Wrong!
There was no camera's around
Which one really solved the water hammer? Fixing the pipe or water hammer arrester
THE GEAR the arrested.
All he really needed was to secure the pipes with the clamps
Majorly late, but both. The arrestor stops the pipe shaking from change in water pressure. An added measure to stop the shaking was securing the pipe.
i have water hammer problem in my house. Anyone in Los Angeles can help to fix the problem for me?
If it is only when you're using the washing machine, then put water hammer arrestors on the valve for the washer. These I'm talking about are easy to install because you don't have to cut the pipe, just screw it on the valve, and then you connect the water hose to the arrestor. There are like 10 dollars at homedepot.
@@dorothymartin8557 yes, it gotta be on both
I heard a little thump at the end when he turned the water off...
Why is everybody screaming about water hammer as if it's some sort of big deal. Hammer in a domestic supply isn't going to break any pipes for as long as you live. Large commercial supplies are a different matter but you ain't gonna find any valves that close as fast as a tap in a non-emergency situation in a commercial supply.
Whether it's a big deal or not, pipes should be secured with proper hangers and grommets for the ultimate protection and quality plumbing installation.
It can damage your pipes
Isnt that convenient!!!?
I think securing the pipe would have fixed the problem without the arrestors
Not really because you still got the inertia of waterflow inside the pipe, which causes the "hammer"
Then every house in the world would have arrestors. So that's bullshit. Just fixing the pipes would do the trick.
The REAL solution to this problem is described by Porche924Tim, below. The original piping installation was faulty.
Glenn Watkins You are wrong sir! My caculations can prove it! Therefore, you must go to a mirror and scream "douche bag!" as loud as you can!
pollepost yes really!
I live in an apartment and sleep right next to a panel just like this in my second bedroom. The tapping is so annoying and have warned the owner about this, but he's done nothing. Glad I have renter's insurance and hope he does too.
Sioux Chief AA size mini-rester did absolutely nothing to stop water hammer that triggers the pumptrol pressure switch to oscillate...
***** Did you install them up right? If they are at an angle the top will fill with water and they will be worthless. I have them and they made a big difference. You may also want to make sure all your valves are wide open throughout the house.
billybassman21 Thanks, Billy! I FINALLY solved it! I cut off the top of the mini-rester and added an 18" long pipe with a cap! I had to bend it a little to get it to fit in the cabinet, LOL! I connected it to a hose bib that is very close to the pressure switch and pump it opened up the valve all the way and it did NOT work. So I closed the valve almost completely and it still did NOT work, but then I started opening it bit by bit and found THANK GOD! that there is a sweet spot. It is a surprisingly narrow range but it is enough to stop the oscillation. Phew!
+billybassman21 WRONG. The Sioux can go any direction...these are a piston type design. The old school way of doing it with just a pipe with air will eventually bleed of the air...quicker if not up and down.
not as good as the watts brand, the sioux are too small
It’s a expansion tank.....hack
Pretty sure those are st1 expansion tanks. Not hammer arrestors
does this act just like PRV?
No
No, a PRV (Pressure Reducing Valve) is to control the water pressure at a reasonable level for the home. Water pressure from the utility can be 100+ PSI which is too high for residential fixtures and hoses. So, a PRV will bring the pressure down to a reasonable level. The anti-hammer chamber reduces the shock from quickly turning off the water, like and electrically controlled valve in a washing machine.
We don’t use “clips” half strap or hanger
you got HOT & COLD pipes mixed up. in the access door they are reversed....
No he didn’t ...
If true it does not matter. It's totally "moot". Both arresters will work left or right, hot or cold.
Richard said the cold water pipe was okay but the hot water pipe was loose (the pipe on the right).
first thing he should have done is check the whole house pressure..bad PRV could cause that
Im wondering that about my house 🤔
Bad PRV will certain contribute. The big deal in most places are things like washing machine hoses that while better than they used to be can still sometimes have adverse reactions to both a bad PRV and a pressure surge when there’s a fast valve close. Good call on checking the PRV as part of the process.
@@dorothymartin8557 Yes, if you have water pressure gauge for the hose bib that will work. Put it on the bib (faucet) turn on the faucet for a reading. Leave it open. Open another faucet and let it run and read the gauge. Close the second faucet and record another reading at the gauge. It might take two people since you really want the pressure reading right after turning off the second faucet. That reading is what the PRV is set to hold when no water is flowing, probably should be around 55lbs max. Watch the gauge for a couple of minutes. If the pressure goes up then the PRV is failing and needs replaced or rebuilt. I hope that helps.
6 months later. It’s leaking
Good video except for one very very important thing,you forgot to mention that the kind of water hammer arrestor that you installed in the video must be at five psi less than the water pressure in the house.In other words if the water pressure for the house is set at 60psi then the water hammer arrestor must have 55psi.Your video does more harm than good because most people do not bother reading instructions and in failing to read instructions set themselves up for failure.The air valve on that water hammer arrestor is there for a very important reason but most people do not think that far ahead so people tend to overlook such a thing.
Thanks for the tip. What do you do in the case of a well-water system where pressure varies from about 40 to 60 PSI depending on how much water is in the bladder tank?
Awas air nya belum dimatikan seru
Air mancur wkwkwkwk
Bet he turned the main water off before cutting those pipes 😜
is there posible way to avoid water hammer arester
How would you quiet a noisy plumber?
watch out for butt crack
I find paying them helps.
@RoadKillzine, Yeah, if he's a British plumber. LOL
I would've wrapped the pipes with a used sock
Pipe insulation is inexpensive and readily available
Now they're reposting the same videos...
I like your method of screwing the next guy, your fellow plumbers who will have to remove the arrestor when they have to work on the larger pipes for any reason. You should of placed the hammer arrestor higher up the 1/2 inch pipe. You Sir, are most certainly NOT THINKING FOR SURE !!!!!!!!!!! Maybe this is why you are on "This Old House !"
the banging is annoying us
That pants he has on I'm surprised white ppl didnt name it the pipe cleaner Jean sitter.
Why is he saying hot on the right side pipe???
besika odiakdze cause if you are in the shower looking at the shower valve it’s on the left how it should be
😂 😂😂 how convenient... do it again, okay sounds like it’s coming from this access panel right here next to where I happen to be standing! Easy as that! 😂😂😂 jokers all jokers!!
And what stopped the noise was securing the pipe, not putting on those high maintenance expansion bubbles.
@@DAS-Videos I think you're missing the point.
@@DAS-Videos nah dude, it’s the water pressure that caused the hot water to shake loose. The arrestor solves shaking from future pressure change. Securing the pipe alone would cause the pipe to burst later.
Why did they wait 23 years? It's an easy fix.
The arrestors cost $160. Scrap metal strip to better secure the pipes...usually nothin'.
TWO Pressure Regulator Values... that's what causes water hammers. Remove one, problem solved.
Just shut the tap off slower
Doesn’t help. Google water hammer and read about it
@@jeanm7508 opening and closing valves slowly almost always eliminates water hammer
@@mitch9186 Only problem is not everyone knows this. This should be taught in elementary school.
It's not good he tightening it up and not holding the tube!!!!
Plumber's resolution is not representative to average home - how many houses have an access panel? One in a million? Plumber has practical experience but zero common sense on how others can benefit from this demo. It has been a waste of time for me.
It would be a boring video of he spent the whole time cutting the wall open
FYI anyone watching, this guy is no "Expert" lol hes a paid actor doing what he's told. A true plumbing expert would know that the hammering heard is a symptom, not the issue. That being said, a "shock absorber", is more like a band-aid over a laceration that requires stitches. If you are experiencing water hammer, call an actual plumber. If he tells you its your pipes that are unsecured, or he needs to tear down your walls, call someone else.
Samuel Martin You should research the "actor."
I don't care, nor do I have to. Just throwing my two cents out there. I know it's not worth much, but I have had customer's tell me "well i watched a youtube video." and when I saw this video I was just couldn't help it. honestly, it's just more job security, however plumbing I feel like should always be done properly due to the health implications of everyone involved.
The point is he's not an actor. He's been in the industry for years. I watch many of these videos. Do I go out and attempt what they do expecting the same results? Of course not, but it helps to see it done correctly, and gives you an idea of whether to call a pro or not.
Back to your expert analysis. This was an ongoing problem for 23 years. Why he didn't open the access panel himself all these years is beyond me. lol
Okay genius, what is the actual issue then? You spewed out that whole paragraph of self righteous hot air, but didn't let us in on the secret.
Richard is a professional plumber