THE FORGOTTEN BATMAN VILLAIN
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2024
- When most people think of Batman Returns --- they of course think of Batman.
They think of Catwoman.
They think of Penguin.
But far too often forgotten is the villainous Max Schreck and his son, Chip.
Christopher Walken put in a fun performance as the twisted tycoon and today, we pay tribute to that.
#batman #batmanreturns #timburton
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Shreck is, in my eyes, the main villain of the film. He's the one pulling the strings the entire film, he nearly gets Penguin into office and creates Catwoman in the first place.
In a weird way, though, I think the film almost doesn't need him. Not only does he disappear from the screen during the movie's entire second act, but he's not quite the counterpart of Carl Grissom, who almost literally created the Joker. He creates Catwoman, but she's a relatively minor character in this film. He had nothing to do with the Penguin's ultimate plan of destroying Gotham City, and never would have run Oswald for mayor if he had known. Anyway, there was an entire political machine calling for the recall election; SOMEONE out there would have wanted to get rid of that goody-goody mayor, and would have stepped up anyhow.
How could anyone forget Evil Christopher Walken?!?
I love his Mozart look.
U mean regular Christopher Walken
Dc did 💀💀💀
DC certainly forgot.
"I should have dropped you out a higher window." remains one of my all-time favorite Batman movie lines.
I think that Max Shreck bailed out Gotham City after the events of the first movie. Remember, the city was going bankrupt, hence they couldn't afford to afford the bicentennial celebration. I always believed that he was the reason the city is back on top. The mayor referenced his "benevolence" and calls him Gotham's "Santa Claus." If Max Shreck did bail the city out, his desire to depower the city for his own benefit would make sense as no one would look at him when his power plant goes wrong as they already believe him to be the city's savior.
Hey! That's a cool theory. These films are so episodic and self contained that I often forgot about details and dangling plot threads like that by the time the following one was released. Just like the murder of the Ice Princess that everyone thinks Batman committed in this film. I had never even noticed that until rumors started floating around that the recent Flash movie was going to address it. Whether or not that film DID address it is something only the dozen or so people who actually watched it know for sure.
ÀA❤@@AshtonRogers-se1zj
That might be true! It also explains why the city is a bit more advanced then it was in the first place (especially with that new Shreck building with the electric powered cat mascot) and seems to have more lampposts throughout and uses more electricity then before (again reconnecting back to Shreck's power plant).
I'm surprised after 32yrs that Max Shreck hasn't made his way into the pages of comics
There was an online fan film that featured Max and Chip - along with the Penguin, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, and Harley Quinn - in a direct sequel to THE DARK KNIGHT, with Heath Ledger's role of the Joker recast. It was obviously made on a very low budget, but the actor cast as Max did a good job, although he's very un-Walken-like. (In this continuity, it's Ivy, not Catwoman, who kills him.)
@@SeasideDetective2I always just thought of him as Tim Burton Maxwell Lord anyway
Max Schreck was an awesome villain. Basically because he was the mastermind behind all of Batman Returns plot. He was an iredeemable monster who killed Selina Kyle for discovering his evil plans despite her being the best secretary and got Penguin as the mayor just so he can keep up sucking up Gotham's electricity. In the end he saved his son's life by letting him be taken by Penguin instead but died being an asshole trying to kill Selina a second time. His death is sooooo satisfying (and creepy).
By the end, you realize, he was killing Selina (or trying to) in self-defense. She made very clear she intended to murder him. What was he supposed to do?
well, thought he was the mastermind. Penguin was manipulating him
You mean by killing Selina a third through seventh time?
@@SeasideDetective2 Well, I wouldn't consider self-defense throwing her out of a window just because she knows things.
@@afterglow-podcast Exactly. She literally wanted to claw him until he bled to death. Not to mention that she'd nearly destroyed his department store. From his point of view, she had it coming.
Let's all take a moment to appreciate the perfection that was Danny DeVitos Penguin🤲
Batman Returns is an underrated classic 🦇 👍
The guy that played Chip also played Zangief in the Street Fighter live action movie.
And Leatherface apparently
Now that is a fun fact I did not know. Dude's portrayal of Zangief rivaled only Raul Julia. Raul wins, of course
We need Bob The Goon to come back to life
Agreed. I don't understand why he can't work alongside Harley.
I can see Max Shreck's DNA in Ferris Boyle as the Villain With Good Publicity: An angel in the media and the public, but a monster behind the mask.
Tim Burton named this character Max Shrek after the actor who played in Nosforatu, a silent, German live action Dracula movie
I love Schreck's costumes. The boldly striped double-breasted suits reflect his flashy, nouveau riche tastes perfectly, while also looking exactly like something you'd expect a Tim Burton character to wear. And if you look closely at his cufflinks, they're human molars (a suggestion by Christopher Walken, who got the idea from a character in _The Great Gatsby)_
Hot take-Danny devito as penguin is on the level as mark hamill as joker levels of perfect casting
Hard, hard agree. That is when I discovered Danny DeVito, and just. Perfection.
Danny was so good as a kid i was scared of his character it felt so real
He made the character different best take on The Penguin imo.
You God damn right he was.
That is a pretty good hot take
Christopher Walken played the Max Shreck character to abaolute perfection
I’m surprised he wasn’t incorporated into the animated series.
😊
Yeah he was a good villain. I like when he told Bruce Wayne if the Penguins parents hadn't 86 him you two would have been bunk buddies at prep school together.
I never forgot Max Shreck.
Batman returns was awesome 😎
His photos with Arnie and other celebrities are hilarious.
I wondered about that. Does this mean these movies take place in the time they were filmed? Is so, what does everything look like it’s the 1940’s?
Also kinda foreshadowed mr freeze too
The most forgotten Batman villain: the guy who played Nosferatu 🤣🤣
Shrek is like an amalgamation of several villains from the Batman mythos:
- Stan the pimp: a character from Batman Year One and Catwoman Sister's Keeper storyline, he was Selina Kyle's boss and dropped her from a window almost killing her. The movie also references this when the Penguin says "He is the owner of almost all Bourdels from the city".
- Carmine Falcone: from both Year One and Long Halloween, a wealthy but corrupt Gotham socialite Selina focus on and tries to kill.
- The Penguin from the comics: a crime boss
I remember seeing a theory a while ago that Mr. Freeze in Batman and Robin was supposed to have been created by Schreck in a similar manner to Ferris Boyle in BTAS, but it was cut because Walken would've been too expensive for just a flashback/cameo. But that's probably untrue.
Funny enough, a picture on Max Shrecks office shows him alongside none other than Arnold Schwarzenegger! Go ahead and Google it. In my head canon Shreck funded the early days of Freeze's career and after his death money ran low, leading to unsafe working conditions and his eventual accident.
Could work as a Cool headcanon
Correction: Daniel Waters wrote Max to be Oswald's OLDER brother. The opening scene would have depicted a little boy who was already able to walk staring at Oswald's cage, only for Mrs. Cobblepot to tell him, "Honey, don't stare at your brother." And, in the final script, not only is Max not a Cobblepot, but he didn't even come from a family like the Cobblepots. It's clear that, despite the enormous privilege he enjoys as an adult, he was a poor boy who "got lucky." The Penguin, by contrast, is supposed to be a plutocrat who got UNlucky, but I was disappointed that Danny DeVito barely made an effort to make his voice "posh," or even intellectual. Every time I watch this, I can't help thinking, "Look, we know the Penguin is smart. Why does he have to act like a dumb, horny, fat bastard?" He worked for a circus, for heaven's sake! He almost certainly was trained as an actor.
Shreck is my favourite villain the movie, He's twisted a malicious, but he's not an over the top meglomainiac , he's a just a corrupt ceo, who's willing to enable more dangerous people for the survival and profit, but he still has Chip as a weak spot. he thinks he's an arch manipulator, and he's good at it, but is largley oblivious to how disposable he is to The penguin, and persistently underestimates everyone else, ultimately, they took a rarely used batman comic archetype, found the perfect actor, an interesting role in the plot, and a thematic connection to line him up with nolan's expressionist style.
He reminds me of Derrick Powers/Blight from Batman Beyond.
Max Shrek loves Chip, and the feeling is reciprocated. Derek Powers hates his son, who returns the passion in equal measure. The Powers just hide their hatred with civilities until such a time as they may be dispensed with, and their authentic selves are revealed. The Shreks are willing to actually willing to sacrifice themselves for one another. If there was ever a betrayal, it would be purely business, and Max would be well pleased to see his son following in his footsteps. However, this would be unlikely.
@@jayt9608 NGL what's what made Terry hate Derek more.
@@Shinigami88X1
True. Terry had issues with his father, but he still loved him and regretted his rebellion after his father was murdered. Derek Powers was entirely antithetical to Terry on a deeply visceral plane.
@@jayt9608 don't forget Ique's daughter when she betrayed her mother
😊 great Christmas film
Agree 💯
As a big fan of Pee Wee's Big Adventure growing up I always loved the cameo by Paul Reubens and Diane Salinger as the Penguins parents.
Original Script had Max Shreck as penguins older/younger brother.
I believe that Max’s fearful line about The Penguin Man living in the sewer was supposed to support Max’s blood connection to Oswald.
I thank him for essentially being the reason we have Catwoman.
Max Schreck looks like California governor Gavin Newsome
Yes he does you can tell by the crazy hair he definitely looks like my idiot governor who we stupidly elected twice(Biggest mistake we ever made🤪)
Nah how could I forget Shrek
I think that since Burton changed Catwoman and Penguin drastically, he shouldve made Max Shreck Carmine Falcone.
I love how you explain every detail. You make everything so understandable. I love hearing your opinions. A lot of which I agree with.
Yes do a video on tim burton catwoman
Yes
I've been hoping you'd do a video on Michelle Pfeiffer Catwoman for a long time now
As good as his Bond villain appearance. Great video I like it a lot. Chip was a terrific side character too for what he was
I always love him in sleepy hollow When you play the horseman.
Batman is my favorite comic book character and this is definitely my favorite CZcams channel to go to for amazing Batman videos. You’re my favorite! I love your stuff. Now, since the DCEU is finished with Aquaman and the lost kingdom, I was wondering if we might be able to get a video with your rankings of the DCEU films from worst to best. It was a long, strange ride, but it was a fun one. The end of an era. I would love to see your take on it.
WOOOOOOOOO NEW VEE VIDEOOOOOOO 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I'm loving these Batman videos, you should do Batman forever with a commentary track now that would be comedy gold
If you watch a DVD copy of Donnie Darko from back in the day with the commentary by Jake Gyllenhaal and director Richard Kelly, Mr. Gyllenhaal does a hilarious Christopher Walken impression during the scene with Donnie and Frank in the movie theater.
You are correct. I completely forgot about that guy.
No offence, but have you ever paid attention to this film? Max was most definitely NOT 'born to riches'. Far from it.
When he says "I'm just a poor schmoe who got lucky" he means it. He despises Bruce for being a 'trustfund goody goody born to the manor with a silver spoon' and chides him for being a preppie. TBF, it's also a stretch to say that Penguin is part of the wealthy elite either, since he pretty much lived in poverty in the sewers from practically day one of his birth.
Christopher Walken confirms as much in the Batman Returns Making Of Book (i.e. the Bible for what's what in this film) when he says that Max didn't have a formal education and sort of made his own way in life. It's all there in black and white if you don't believe me, but please check it out for yourself.
I hate to be rude, especially since I just subscribed to your channel, but I do really wish CZcamsrs would get their *facts* straight before editing their videos. It's a real bug bear of mine (and before anyone gives me a hard time for this, I have OCD, so I get particularly peeved off when people get these blatant FACTS wrong). Please either re-edit your video, or add a retraction in your next video. Thank you for your time.
You know something that's a very valid criticism of this video. I think I was mainly referencing the proposed background of the character what with him being the Penguin's brother. That re-contextualizes some of the character's arc. I will include this information when I put out my BIG Batman Returns video as well as update it on my Patreon.
@@VI_V2 I'm sorry I was such a jerk about it.
I've got OCD and I'm a bit (unhealthily) obsessed with some pop culture.
That said, you're 100% right about the *original* screenplay by Daniel Waters. In *that* screenplay, Max Shreck is The Penguin's older brother, and thus, it is 100% correct that he was thus born and raised in wealth. But for whatever reason (and I wonder if it had anything to do with Chris Walken's casting, since he seems a better fit for a self-made guy than a blueblood IMHO), they rewrote Max as a self-made guy who was completely unrelated to Penguin, and seemed to have given some of Max's original traits (i.e. being born rich, being a pretty boy jackass) to Chip. Chip, as you may remember, was simply a lackey in the earlier screenplay, rather than Max's son, and at one stage, Catwoman kills him, bizarrely using a pit filled with quicksand (despite living in an apartment block, and presumably not the basement).
You know every once in a while vee pull out something that should be obvious yet over looked. "oh yeah he was a villian in that wasn't he?"
Why have we never gotten a max check action figure!!! Damn dude literally screams action figure baddy!
Best outro ever.
Was thinking the same.
To me, this is always Walken's definitive role. I know I'm in the minority there, but this was the first thing I saw him in, and he plays the role well.
Bring Max Shreck into the comics. Supposedly, there's rights issues with the character, from what I have been told. But I'd love to see him elsewhere.
Not THE DEER HUNTER? He nearly starved himself for that role!
Who has forgotten Max Schreck? Him and Pfeiffer were by far the best things about this movie.
Dont forget Penguin
Oh no. 😅I doubt anyone that has seen Max Schreck, could ever forget him. I wonder if he would be as memorable, without Christopher Walken in the equation.
I love that his name is taken from Max Shreck from Nosfuratu
The crazy thing is if Batman Returns came out today, Walken’s character would be someone preexisting like Simon Stagg
This guy and Carmine Falcone from Batman Begin and The Batman. They such great villain but don't get to shine.
Technically, the version of Roland Daggett portrayed by Ben Mendehlson in The Dark Knight Rises was renamed "John Daggett" so they're not exactly the same character. Was this done to avoid paying royalties to the writers of B:TAS? Who knows...
I like Ben Mendelsohn as Daggett
Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito were in the movie "Twins". So they couldn't use the same story line in the Batman movie...
the idea is that the character of Harvey would become Two Face in the third film. The point of Two Face is that he's the white knight, the opposite of batman. He's upright, he's beloved, he's in the public eye and everyone sees him as an honest man. That's why it's so tragic when he becomes what he becomes. So it makes sense for him to not show his darker side, so to speak, in the movie where we're not supposed to see his transformation. That would have been explored in the third cancelled film
Max Schrek, better known as Not-Thorne/Not-Daggett
Hey Vee, I love these anyalysis videos of characters from the original quadrilogy! Do you think you'll ever get around to doing one on Michelle Pfeiffer, or the other remaining ones like Riddler or Mr Freeze?
I should get around to the rest of them, but I actually did one for Riddler already czcams.com/video/jtqHsNooEI0/video.htmlsi=kO9_hZU7si133yA8
I never forget the Schreck
Just came here to say Max as a character is just Vince Mcmahon
Plus max schreck's giant cat head thing was in batman arkham city
Christopher Walken was excellent in this movie!
Christopher Walken makes the best villains, ever watch a View to a kill, you'll know what I mean😁
After realizing that Max Shreck isn't a character from the comics, I concluded that Tim Burton just really wanted Christopher Walkin in the film!
On a side note, please do an episode on the "villains crashing fancy parties" in Batman films. The Penguin crashed the masquerade party (Batman Returns), Two-Face crashed Edward Nygma's tech reveal party (Batman Forever). Mr Freeze crashed the charity auction (Batman and Robin), Ras al Ghul crashed Bruce Wayne's party (Batman Begins), and the Joker crashed that dinner party looking for Harvey Dent (The Dark Knight). I don't know if you count Joker poisoning the art gallery (Batman 89), Bane robbing the stock exchange (The Dark Knight Rises), or Riddler's minions firing upon the election campaign and flooding it (The Batman).
He was my favorite villain in Batman Returns. I honestly hoped he’d be a character that would appear in the comics! I know this is a hot take but I never liked Catwoman in the film she seemed like nothing but a certain type of fantasy the writers were having.
The character of Roland Dagget in Batman: The Animated Series was originally going to be Max Shreck. And funnily enough, the character of Max Shreck was originally intended to be Harvey Dent/Two-Face in an early draft of the film. Also, this is most likely a coincidence, but the character of Max Shreck looks a lot like a DC character created before Batman Returns was even conceived: Simon Stagg, the arch-nemesis of Metamorpho, one of DC’s lesser known heroes.
The character of Max Shrek was not originally intended to be Harvey Dent/Two-Face in an early draft of the film. Harvey Dent/Two-Face is not in a single draft of the film. Daniel Waters played with the idea of having Harvey Dent/Two-Face in a scene, but ultimately decided against it and left the scene out.
I see max and Oswald to sides of the same coin. Both have traits of penguin
I was hoping this was about The Bookworm.
Not as forgotten as Sugar & Spice from Batman Forever.
I think Theo Galvan in the Gotham series is roughly based off of this guy, particularly with how penguin goes to him with the intention of "working together" but blackmailing him only for it to blow up in the penguin's face when he finds out they captured his mother
Additionally, Theo is obsessed with his legacy still, it's just that in Gotham his legacy isn't necessarily his company, and his conflict is still with Bruce Wayne while being indifferent to what Bruce's actions to fight crime are.
So I don't know if you ever watch any other youtube creators, but Channel Awesome did several FanScription episodes where they played out the Batman Sequels as if Tim Burton continued to direct. And I mention it because The Batman And Robin one alone is pretty damn impressive with what they do with Chip Shrek.
I want a live adaptation of the CLOCK KING
We got that on the 1966 Batman series episodes The Clock King's Crazy Crimes and The Clock King Gets Crowned the 11th and 12th episodes of the second season
@@kevin10001 nigga that ambiguously gay ass show dont count. I want a real serious adaptation
Not that HOLY GEE WILLIKERS BATMAN IM FIGHTING WITH MY THIGHS OUT head ass show.
@@afroanime4589 racist and it's not even a bad show just campy
@@milosbatmanvideos what did I say that was racist?
@@afroanime4589 you used n word for no reason
If Harley Quin can become a character in the comics from the Animated series, then Max Shreik can be a comic book character first appearing in Batman Returns.
Actually the Max Shreck roll was supposed to have been the Billy Dee Williams Harvey Dent roll
In some ways I'm glad they changed it to Max Shreck
He addressed that in the video.
@@bdpickett I know I made the comment before the video was over
Sent this to Dan Waters.
He most definitely wàs the main villain.
Chris Walken’s Max Is by far the most underrated Batman villain of all time. I never understood why his character was never used for other projects.
I think for many people, the main appeal of Max Shreck is the fact that he was played by Christopher Walken. Which is something that can't really translate to comic books.
I would like to see Max Schreck show up in the upcoming Matt Reeves Batman movies.
Something I don't get if Batman Returns was made in today's times there would be no controversy because Burton took a big risk by doing the film in the 90s. If anyone deserves a second shot it's Tim Burton.
This is Walken at his very best. He comes perfectly manipulating both all of Gotham City and Oswald, practically having them eating out of his.... as long as The Penguin biting it off!
My only complaint for Christopher Walken in this movie is that he didn’t get to dance.
Join Nebula Vee where you can do the videos on your pantheon without us haveing to just pay for one person
I think shrek was like " you know what i hate my swamp now im visiting gotham where criminals are everywhere and an idiot that identifies as a bat and villans that are terrorists i just wana live there and become an villain myself and an billionare "
I wonder if Schreck never appeared again due to rights issues? I guess Tim Burton might have a claim on creating the character and Walken on the likeness... maybe??
Interesting you also bring up a possible brotherly connection. I remember watching Batman Returns with my sister when we were kids and she somehow assumed Schreck and the Penguin where brothers...
Black spider is one of the forgotten villains from batman barley used
Can you do a video on the relationship between Bruce and Selina in Gotham?
Unlimited Poontang
4:17
3:36
7:07
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The Man? And where is The Jerker? (sorry i couldn't help myself)
1:00
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7:11
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