Why Lord Momin Believed the Rule of Two Made the Sith Order WEAK!
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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The Non-Canon Expert explains the issues that Lord Momin had with the Sith Lords in the Rule of Two era, pointing to the ancient Sith Lord's view that the dark side must be served completely and that the modern Sith, including Sidious and Vader, had merely become Jedi-obsessed weaklings!
This is a Canon story for Lord Momin and the Rule of Two era, touching on Momin and Sidious scenes found in the current Vader comics, as well as an important scene in the Canon novel "Tarkin" by James Luceno. I hope that you enjoy it!
Here it is, Part 2 of our look at Lord Momin and the Rule of Two era Sith Lords! This time, we look at Momin’s belief that the Sith Order represented by Sidious and Vader had become Jedi-obsessed weaklings, and whether there is truth in this from Momin’s point of view.
We will be going live here on CZcams in roughly 45 minutes (3:30pm EST), where we will discuss Lord Momin and also talk about the awesome announcement regarding the new Thrawn novel! I can’t wait to see you all there. :)
Eli's confirmed back for the new Thrawn novel too!
Insane! This will have to be first on our list today in about 30 minutes. I'm so...happy. :D
@@starwarsreadingclub hmm.... i just asked a 2 part question about the qui gon comic that came out yesterday, maybe i'll hop on the live hangout and just ask you there!
I'd say canon had a better story to tell with vador & sidius. Lord momin sounded like he knew the real power of the dark side
yaaawn
In the end, Lord Momin was right. While it took a thousand years for the Sith to finally overthrow the Jedi, it took the Jedi only Two decades tops to beat them back with only one Luke Skywalker
The true sith empire had control of half the universe for 1 thousand years while the rule of 2 sith era had to servive for 1 thousand years only to have shaky control of the entire universe for about 20 years….
@@Berserker3624 You mean galaxy? Anyways yes the Sith Empire took control half the galaxy more than a 1000 years till its downfall centuries later. The cycle between the light & dark never ends.
Pretty crazy, shows how powerful the skywalkers are
They really need to go into greater detail of ancient sith and Jedi
Because all these hints and teasing really are Super interesting to not have an ongoing series about it
every time ancient sith or jedi relics are brought into the story I instantly become very interested in the content. like in SW rebels when the group goes to malcore was one of the most interesting episodes.
i could point you to the SWTOR MMO, but i don't know how you would accept it...
Go play SWTOR then.
I'm late on this but I reinstalled it the other day. Worth
The Pre-Bane stuff I'd like to see new canon go into is Lord Kaan and the Brotherhood of Darkness. Really interesting period IMO.
Remember why the Sith disagreed with the destruction of the Jedi when Malgus wanted to end them like a fool!?
Without conflict they would grow weak. The Jedi are a tool to be used by the dark side. Sidious is a fool for trying to destroy them in their entirety.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, we gain strength,
Through strength, we gain power.
Through power, we gain victory.
Through victory, our chains are broken.
The force shall set us free!
Great point! It reminds me of how Scipio warned the Romans not to destroy Carthage entirely, that the Roman Republic needed its enemy in order to stay strong and focused and united. They did not listen, and the Republic destroyed Carthage and then tore itself apart.
I see where Lord Momin was coming from but destroying the Jedi should have been a necessity not an obsession
I enjoyed your review of Momin. Frankly, it makes sense why Sith considered him a heretic, as he would contradict their very self centered approach to the Dark Side. The Sith creed believed that through emotion you felt free. Well, Momin was the opposite. He felt inspired by the Dark Side. The Dark Side would tell him to destroy things for it's purpose. M omin was self less in his pursuit of dark side knowledge. Makes a great heretic IMHO
He was an artist, artists are not known for being common.(the good ones anyway) Sith usualy dominate and destroy Momin wanted to create.
Raximus3000 Although even Momin destroyed with his creations.
@@jeggsonvohees2201
Not really though, he cheated death and then Vader killed him because he saw value in fighting a meaningless battle.
Raximus3000 Can you elaborate on that? In his flashbacks, it showed Momin constantly killing things to create his art, even as a child, and his final act before dying the first time was an attempt to indefinitely prolong the pain and destruction of a city or world. Both of those things involve destruction for his creations.
@@jeggsonvohees2201 not exactly, his goal right before he dies from to make people feel fear, his device wasn't really meant to inflict pain, it probably did but it was meant to inflict deep fear, and then using the dark side he would freeze time, so they wouldn't die, but they would forever feel the fear and dread he wished to inspire.
It's interesting because Momin is very different not only from the Rule of two era sith lords but also the Reven era sith as well. The Reven Era sith believed the force a tool to be mastered no different from a blaster. In fact, I'd even say his philosophy is closer to the Jedi in that it was more about serving the force albeit the dark side of it. Thus making him a heretic of both as stated by Sidious.
His views are similar to the Prophets of the Dark Side from Legends. The Prophets withdrew from the Sith, and instead served the Dark Side itself as a religion on Droomund Kass, and preferred to not try and destroy the Jedi. When Palpatine gained their loyalty, Kadann, the Supreme Prophet, warned that he would die on Endor, but Palpatin refused to believe it. Kadann and his group withdrew from the Empire, believing Palpatine had ceased to serve the Dark Side by not accepting it's prophecies and fates, and trying to defy it.
@@zillafire101Fascinating
*Did you ever hear The Tragedy of Rule of Two Era Sith? I thought not, it's not a story that Darth Bane would tell you.* Lol! But this video is amazing, and really explains in incredible detail why Momin really did not think that Rule of Two Sith were not so good!!!! :)
Haha, I love it! :)
Thanks so much for the kind words as well. I can't tell you how much the support means and how great it is to hear that you enjoyed it!
@@starwarsreadingclub Anytime! I cannot wait to see the next amazing video!!! :)
I would love a Momin comic set during the days of the Old Republic era, perhaps just a miniseries with five parts.
Lord Momin is a pretty slick, and interesting character...he's like PURE evil...
1st...
Couldn't agree more MS, there is something about Momin that separates his evil from other Sith Lords that I love. Always appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment!
@@starwarsreadingclub you're welcome my friend, as always, i love your analysis and take on things that a lot of other fans/channels dont dive into so much...that issue with his backstory was mesmerizing, and quite brutal when you look at the JOY he took in his evil. He is like one of those whackos that is just EVIL, not made that way due to this or that happening over his childhood. And then of course like in this video, his verbal attacks/taunting on Vader in the penultimate issue of that series (forget the Star Wars name for that Sith taunting technique, i.e. what you've covered a few times, especially with Dooku), showed quite the bit of purposely malicious, hurtful displays of evil and villainy, and onto a fellow Sith at that...though, of course, as we both know, Momin's idea of what a Sith is/should be, is vastly different of that of the "modern" Sith of the Sidious era...i don't remember if Momin was around before or after the Rule of 2? Did he even care about it, let alone adhere to it?
MAsterr Serch Shame he didn't stick around long.
As much the force doesn't care for the Jedi traditions, it doesn't care for the Rule of Two as well.
In KotOR II the point was raised by either Atris or Kreia which asked what they would be without the force.
it has been so long since I played this fantastic game.
Darth Vader: The Rule of Two works! We will wipe out the last remaining Jedi, and we shall rule the galaxy with the full power of the Dark Side.
Momin: Amazing... Every word of what you just said was wrong.
DV: What did you say?!
M: Oh, apologies. You wouldn't get that reference.
If you go by Legends the Jedi failed when the eradication of any dark side force user became the rule as far back as their emergence from the Je'daii Order.
The ancient Sith Empire was the only true representative of the Dark Side, that was toppled by one of their own as he feared their rediscovery from the Republic and the Jedi. Naga Sadow's attack on the Republic ended the Golden Age of the Sith and every Sith afterwards was focused on destroying the Jedi and the Republic they protected, just as the Jedi focused on destroying the Sith.
The only flicker of true followers of the Dark Side were Exar Kun and Ulic Qel-Droma. While they saw the Republic and the Jedi as an obstacle, they were not obsessed by their destruction. As Exar Kun said: "The Republic is not even part of the plan."
And consider this. A Sith could have taken any planet outside the Republic, force the inhabitants to serve him and study the Force and the Dark Side at his leasure. He could amass a fortune, pay for a planet in Hutt Space and do the same. Unless he studies Force Architecture like the Temples on Yavin 4 the needs for study are not very extensive.
The same goes for the Jedi and their increasingly restricting rules over the milennia. Live in a village, plant your crops, help the community and study. That's all that was needed.
That's all the ancient Je'daii did. Study and keep the balance between Light and Dark.
Note: I haven't read evrything and I am not all-knowing. This is just the impression I got from what I read and it's all Legends-based. I don't care much for the new Canon simply because I have no interest to read a revision of something I have already read. If you like the new Canon, go ahead and enjoy yourself.
"Live in a village, plant your crops, help the community study."
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who knew this philosophy was the true way to expand one side if the force's power. The issue was both sides wanted some sort of strong influence with the "Republic" because if they controlled the Republic, they can control the Galaxy. Instead of controlling the Republic, they should've had a planet of their own so they can Cultivate and Grow. But nooooo
Really interesting character
I agree Matt, it's safe to say he's probably my favourite original character from Canon!
@@starwarsreadingclub I'd like to see a new canon version of Lord Kaan.
Yeah his back story the way he talked and his look/mask was so cool I read this comic twice!
@@starwarsreadingclub mine too
And his views on the rule of two are kind of odd
Because did you notice in the Darth Bane trilogy
That he was not obsessed with the Jedi his whole motivation was preserving his Sith order
I can agree with the Sith Lord moment that Darth Cydia‘s and Vader became obsessed with the Jedi whereas the Sith Lord Darth Bain was not his whole goal was preserving his Sith order as I said previously
In fact he did everything to make sure that the Jedi order could not find him and his apprentice Darth Zannah
The Vader comic was the best. I love your content and it is still wonderful.
Please keep it up....
Will yu plz be sure to talk about Palpatine’s visits to Korriban soon?
Robin McCormack when was that?
I mean, the rule of two ended up with a sniveling coward as leader of the sith, so yeah, I have to agree with Momin here. Eventually some idiot managed to get real lucky and kill his master, and become the least sith-like sith imaginable.
I always felt that "The Brotherhood of Darkness" Was closer to true Sith philosophy , while the Banite rule of two Sith . Was actually a cult when compared to the original Sith Empire.
To be honest both of them would’ve been seen as mere cults by the Sith Empire. Neither had any civilizational aspect, the former was a dark side warband, the latter was a small but talented order following a dogma and self-service.
Momin’s observations can be applied to nearly every modern Force User. They focused too much on serving either a political body or themselves instead of serving the Force as Qui-Gon Jin did. It is not illogical to extrapolate that the fear of the other side as well as focusing on one or the other instead of the Force as a whole would be a detriment to any Force User. Both Qui-Gon and Revan knew this and they knew that even before Mormin’s time the doctrines of both the Jedi and the Sith were outdated and backwards. Even though Revan himself would fall into the trap of destroying the Sith Emperor Viviate, it still shows just how much they both strayed from serving the Force.
If religious duties and morals didn't compel them to destroy each other, I get the feeling that Momin and Qui Gon Jinn would get along as philosophers.
This issue reminded me of what if sidious didnt kill plagueis and followed plagueis in ending the rule of two where sidious would focus on the politics of the republic and plagueis focused on studying the dark side. Which actually got him to reviving another sith lord from death. I imagine Momin would have joined this new order as a sith architect, building new sith temples like vader's castle and serving the dark side and ensuring its patronage.
Sidious biggest mistake was to reveal the Sith after the Jedi Order believing them extinct for so long that they had given up their search for any living Sith. By Sidious failure to demolish the Jedi Order he revealed themselves instead of unraveling ancient dark side knowledge in secret completely unknown to the Jedi.
What neither Jedi nor Sith could grasp is the fact that the Force does not want the Light nor the Dark to rule the galaxy as the opposite will strike against whichever gains the biggest influence to uphold the balance of the Force.
Both Jedi and Sith are abominations of the force as neither can live beside the other as we have seen in the thousands of years of Star Wars history. Lord Momin is right in that the Sith is weak when they focus their power to eradicate the Jedi likewise the Jedi is weak when their fear of the Dark Side blinds their vision into trying to eradicate the Sith.
Qui Gon Jinn was probably the only force user in the prequel era to realize the truth and follow the will of the force, even though he lacked the knowledge because of modern Jedi and Sith disrupting him.
@@mysteriouslunar9779 Yes the whole point of the force is to balance the dark and light not only within yourself but in the galaxy to create harmony.
Not to fight and try to eradicate one or the other as the famous quote "Theres always light in the dark and always darkness within the light" says, you simply cant extinguish one without a spark remaining in there.
Thats the whole point of the Mortis arc in TCW to show the chosen one the importance of the balance in the force as the Father was the balance between the extreme Son and Daughter who simply could not live in harmony without him or the chosen one to control their urges.
Which is why I love gray orders such as the Jensaarai, Jedi Bendu and Imperial Knights of the Fel Empire. And ofc the original Je`daii Order.
Finally a Sith lord that thinks the Rule Of Two is as stupid as I think it is.
HoracioAmiritoDiaz Darth Bane created a great legacy and has beliefs similar to momin like service to the dark side which revan also believed when he was a Sith Lord not banes fault his successors completely missed the point of the rule of two
It’s just bane considered the Jedi a thorn in butt they had to get rid off and in that he was right
@Fetish&Gaming nah they were going to loose anyway so Bane fastened the process.
@@Visitormassacre not really a remarkable feat when you compare the current jedi with the old ones
@@Visitormassacre I didnt say it isnt the main goal of the sith (which it acutally isnt) but i saod that the order palpatine defeated was weak and also he didnt really defeat them by himself as the old sith tries in their wars but he used the clones mainly so yeah really not remarkable.
@@Visitormassacre For like what? 10-20 years for the Jedi's millenium. The Rule of Two outright crippled the Sith as a whole and nearly doomed the progression of the Dark side of the force.
New favorite Sith Lord, hands down.
... I mean, for character anyway. Vader still takes the cake for sheer badassery.
Lord Momin makes many good points. I agree with his opinion of the Rule of Two; the Sith forgot one of the most basic of military axioms - strength in numbers. The dark side is far too vast for just two Sith, especially when those Sith are consumed with their Jedi obsession to the exclusion of their true duty - serving the dark side.
Jennifer Brewer Lord momin an ancient sith ok there were some flaws with the rule of two seeing how Darth sidious broke it twice but clearly the rule of two is more powerful and Lord momin was a interesting philosopher on the darkside but truly he didn’t understand it otherwise he be alive there are three types of Sith 1. The classic Sith serves the darkside like Lord momin but here’s the catch to that you gotta put in half the work can’t expect the darkside to help u evade death 2. Those that tried to control the darkside some succeed some fail those that fail end up rotting and aging faster that’s why some Sith were rotting there bodies becoming rotten and such some not all 3. The ones who put in more than enough work the darkside serves u like you can even cheat death Darth Vader Darth sidious Darth vitiate and Darth bane had this they controlled the darkside and that’s why they are legends to this day the point is the rule of two works it’s perfect for the Sith because guess what it took two Sith to kill 10s of thousands of Jedi how cool is that clearly the rule of two is badass and helped build up Darth Sidious and Darth Vader up but unfortunately nothing lasts forever
The rule of two got perverted over time. The last masters stole the title of master. Ideally apprentices should have been capable of killing their master face up. Besides you could argue that the ancient sith failed where as Bane succeeded
Sidious embodied Sith Power & proved the rule of 2 correct, I don't consider retcons to devalue his achievements. Suffice to say Plagueis & Sidious shifted the entire force towards the dark side & with that force focused around him Sidious' power reached across the galaxy & was felt by all.
That is not exactly true seeing as just 2 Siths damn near annihilated the Jedi and ruled the entire galaxy for at least 20 plus years. Basic military strategy is that big numbers dont always succeed. In order to carry out specific missions smaller numbers are more efficient. With just 2 they never broadcast their might so the Jedi had absolutely no clue when they would strike and had grown alarmingly arrogant to the point that Sidious pretty much was standing in front of their faces and influencing unbelievable moments like taking control of the Senate, slowly turning one of their own, building an army that they would trust only to shoot them in the back, and even creating a false army to force the majority of the events that transpired.
@@mattroxursoul
Well Jedi beat themselves and Sith did it as well, lol.
The sith never understood the power of the many and the Jedi the power of the one.
It makes sense when you think that when Luke dipped into the dark side to defeat Vader almost crushing him meaning that the dark side of the force gave Luke more power then Vader at that moment.
Not to mention that Sidious was literally being destroyed from the inside out by the Dark Side.
And that his ultimate fate was to die by his own power.
Everyone's talking about this like Momin
and has some crazy accurate Theory but everybody seems to forget he was clearly wrong that's why Vader smashed in like a grape... the dark sode didnt give a shit aboit his art. Vader bent it to his desires and pamcaked momin.
Yet you forget Vader was losing the entire battle until Momin monologued to
Much. That and Momin was shown to be right when the force allowed him to use his dark side invention to get his body to return while it literally rejected the “mighty” Vader
Anime Theory Vader was already damaged and injured before he fought momin
Wow Momin is following the old school way of the Sith.
I liked Momin's take on glorifying the dark side but he did so and the dark side didn't seem to grant him any significant power at all, he was pretty weak by his own admission. Perhaps the dark side granted him insight on how to build fantastical constructs since he was more an artist/engineer/architect than anything else.
I also think Sidious killing and enslaving billions in itself is a tribute just as worthy as anything Momin has given the dark side. But his point on the Sith's obsession with the Jedi holds true just as it does for the Jedi's obsession with eradicating the Sith.
Had Momin been fully successful with his original masterpiece, and he wasn't stopped by the jedi, I think things would be different. He would create a tear, a wound in the force and truly ascend to truly immense power. His is a story of a sith lord stopped early.
Well he was right in a way. Sith like the mad immortal emperor Vitiate or lord Zash from the mmorpg SWTOR could gain a kind of immortality with essence transfer. Momin was able to literally remake his body through the force. In a way he achieved true immortality one of the greatest power the force, light or dark could grant. the Jedi achieve it through serving the light and momin did so by serving the dark. perhaps that is the best path to power, to just humble yourself before the force.
Many thanks for the praise of my comment and the insightful discussion you gave on it. I am humbled.
Thank you Scott, the pleasure really is all mine! It was a fantastic comment and really made me think about that question for hours to try to work it out. Thank you again and hope you are doing very well buddy.
@@starwarsreadingclub The only reason I knew about any of that was from your earlier videos. I haven't read "Tarkin." :)
Snoke: "Darkness Rises , and light to meet it"
Nope, .. Darkness rises to cut you in half... arrogance is the force's favorite target.
Figuratively and literally cut you in half
It is possible to see Vader's references to the power of the Force in comparison to the Death Star as evidence that he actually got Momin's point.
I never get why people get this idea that the force has a will, I actually agree with most things the clone wars era jedi, the idea of serving the force light or dark seemed stupid to me, I have come to see it more as there are multiple ways to use the force some far more corrupting as others. And they seem to be more symbiotic relationships between the force user and the Jedi. I have always looked at the force as natural phomomanom. I have always looked at looked at it in a scientific context, the reason jedi should be weary of the dark side of the force is because its corrupting especially if you have no control over your emotions or know when the right time to rely upon them.
So sad the Darth Vader comic is ending.
ab_1009 but... it was so artistically done. Please get that reference
well they're doing another series right after this one....well, im not so sure it's RIGHT after, but another is coming, and i believe it is really focusing on Vader living in his castle and what went on there...im sure sick keggers...
MAsterr Serch great cant wait for that new series
Hope it will be as good as the Vader series
@@finnvandeven5066 I get it.Thrawn.
darth mortem Admiral Ackbar, right?
This music I hear I think of it as Momins theme.
Have a shot each time weak or weakness was said. Great video.
I think this gives me exselent idea to continue to write my story of jedi how survives the order 66 and starts to turn more back in light side, weird yes but some reason this inspired me.
And all so helped me to maybe one day to insert this in our rpg games.
I guess Palpatine never got to get as deep into the dark side as he wanted
Yo this is good SWReading Club!.. this Momin dude is interesting!.. word!..
Two there should be. No more, no less. A master to embody the power and an apprentice to grave it
GGGGGGrave it??? Damn, that's grim...not enough to just want it, and CCCCCCCrave it, the apprentice is so dark side focused, he wants to KILL the power along with the MAsterr????
lol, just bustin balls... be well, my fellow Jedi or Sith friend (im PRO JEDI, all the way!!! LIGHTSiDE4LYFE!!!)
As much as I enjoy listening to your videos, theories, and stories, they are very convoluted and repetitive. You could easily cut the length in half if you stoped repeating yourself.
I look forward to your next video on the ancient Jedi and Sith, they are badass!
More videos about Momin would be interesting to watch.
I find momin to be a very interesting character and no other channel have covered him the way u have...
As always, wonderful video Star Wars Reading Club!
Yes! Thank you :)
Momin is to the dark side what qui gonn was to the light. Both listened and trusted the force wholeheartedly
off topic question, Non-Canon Expert... a) you gonna do a deeper look at yesterday's Qui Gon Jinn comic, right? I hope.... love his whole "we should just follow the Force, you Jedi are just extensions of the republic" stance, and they especially pointed that out in the issue when he leaves for answers and literally lets the Force physically guide him to wherever he felt he needed to go...and B) is that Qui Gon comic just a one shot, or a 5 issue limited series, or what, do you know? I looked it up on WookiePedia, and it didn't say (unless i missed it), and have read different comments saying it was a 1 shot, and then saying it was a 5 shot, and then another guy saying 1 shot... figure you'd probably know...
That comic was super relevant to all these conversations, too! Awesome to see that story and Qui Gon's character getting more depth.
@@Evan_L how so? Yeah i don't think they've done nearly as much as they SHOULD, in canon at least, with Qui Gon. He should've been the first character to get his own A STAR WARS STORY movie, not just because he's awesome, but because Liam ain't getting any younger!!!
@@masterrserch3971 It is a story about Qui Gon exploring his feelings around whether or not the Jedi serve the force, as it seems like more and more in the prologue to the clone wars that they are just servants and warriors for the republic.
@@Evan_L oh i know, i just read it like 2 hours ago..i was just wondering how you likened it to this issue...but yeah, i guess i see it, what with how one interprets the force!
Do more old non cannon star wars novels reviews if not for me for the fans
Frankly I think that Momin was wrong.
Firstly the old Sith never defeated the Jedi but the modern Sith did.
Secondly Momin himself lost to a weakened modern era Sith (Vader).
Thirdly Sidious was correctly afraid of the Jedi. In the end it was a Jedi (Luke) trained by Jedi survivors (Obi-Wan and Yoda) and an ex-Jedi (Anakin) who killed Sidious and destroyed the Empire.
Would Momin consider losing a fight to be bad, though? He has ... unique ... tastes for serving the Force.
But you fail to understand momin. Destroying the jedi was never momin's intention, rather devoting himself and serving the dark side was his one true goal. This is what makes momin such a unique sith.
Momin is indeed an amazing character. However I don't see him as a Sith. He is more like Crazy Jedi, who made himself slave for the Force. Siths are supposed to be their own masters and not follow anyone or anything blindly like Momin is doing.
Actually the might of Vader and Sidious kinda proves that they have better understanding about the force and what it means to be a true sith. Especially Sidious could probably manhandle Momon with zero difficulty having greater command over the force than any old sith, who were just "slaves".
@@VarjoFilosofi If you run around trying to kill a bunch of Jedi and ruling a kingdom rather seeking more power through the dark side I dont see how are not a slave to your surroundings.
But how does any of that prove him wrong? Only thing it proves is the force loved vader more, something to be expected since he's the chosen one.
Don't forget that we also see that Momin was right. The Force allowed his past self to pass through the portal with no problem while the force tortured Vader and denied him. Even Palpatine had to use Sith magic to chase Ezra in the time lanes instead of going in himself (Maybe the force denied him from entering)
I never even thought about that. Good point.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Sith creed always about self empowerment and the exertion of one's own will onto the force and the world? I know, the training of an apprentice, that is going to try and kill his Master, doesen't sit right here, but that could be viewed as an extreme form of social darvinism. Isn't Monins principle of submission of the self to the force the opposite of what being Sith means, making him in acuality closer to a Dark Jedi (as Jedi try to erase their self/ego. I am not implying that he is just a fallen Jedi, but really serves the dark aspect of the Force, like a Jedi who would serve the light).
Exactly my thoughts. I see Momin being more like "Crazy Jedi" than Sith.
@@VarjoFilosofi “Do not speak to me of the ways of the Sith. You of all of us have no conception of what it means to be Sith.”
I'd like to see a conversation between Momin and Kreia.
Heh! Momin and Kreia would absolutely hate each other.
Momin would see Kreia as a heretic, who doesn't follow Dark Side properly. Kreia would see Momin being slave to the Force and would despise him for it.
Kreia would probably get along with Sidious much better since he actually didn't rely mainly on the Force. When Sidious conquered the Galaxy he used more his "own power" using manipulation, political power and intelligence. Kreia would absolutely respect that since she saw beings, who relied power, which wasn't their "own" as a weakness and the Force is exactly that. Heck Kreia herself used same kind of tactics as Sidious.
@@VarjoFilosofiShe might respect him a bit actually, since she thinks that ALL Jedi and Sith are slaves to the Force, so at least Momin does so willingly and by choice rather than deluding himself like almost every other Force user does (in her eyes). At the very least, he's "different".
And yes, you could argue that Momin is not truly a Sith, but you may consider that he thinks that serving the Dark Side is the only viable path to true power, so in a weird way he IS still self-serving.
I think momin was blind to see that Vader is Palpatine’s masterpiece.that should count as glorying the dark side,dont you think?
vader was nothing more than glorified tool to sidious
It wasn't really glorifying the darkside...
Palpatine wanted a perfect apprentice(young, vibrant, strong) that would serve him...but ended up getting a machine for the most part....
And not only that..but Vador was for the most part, subject to the emporers own spies and guard that would keep watch of him So that he would see and know of any form of betrayal....he was essentially trying to keep vador in check, while keeping him for the general teachings of the darkside..leaving most of the information for himself.
how does one exactly glorify the darkside through works and art?
I'm not sure, but I'm reminded of something from the 'Builder's Sword" LitRPG novels, the contrast between Heaven and Hell. Heaven is beautiful, egalitarian, and peaceful (or WAS peaceful, read the series for more information), but also bare. Spartan. Everything completely functional and that's all. Hell, in contrast, is a bureaucracy where you have to submit forms in triplicate to twelve different departments just to repair your house, but it is full of art. Paintings. Sculpture. Extravagant food. Things that exist simply for the sheer pleasure they bring.
Do you prefer canon or Legends Sidious’ focus on the Jedi after Order 66?
Hey Non-cannon Star Wars expert I had a pressing question, If Yoda and Obi-wan where really interested in keeping the whole "Darth Vader had kids" thing secret, then how come they didn't hide Luke's true last name? They didn't leave it as Leia Skywalker after all. And while I know Luke was put on a back water planet as far as the Empire was concerned, but it doesn't seem like it would of been too much trouble to ask Lars Homested to claim him as Luke Homested since agreed to raise him after all.
And with that new comic where Boba Fett fought Luke and told him his name it just put him in Darth Vader's sights quicker.
This is a general question not related to this video. I would appreciate if you could answer it and I apologize if it is a off-topic. I understand that Yoda have a force ghost because he was so powerful with the force. Is it safe to assume that Snoke Would also have a Force ghost?
That was the Sith Lord Darth Bane's Greatest mistake, reducing Sith Lords to only 2 Memebers, and having few Sith Inquistors didn't make the Sith Order Stronger, it only made them weaker.
They thinked this will reduce the Sith to prevent Anyone from Usurping, Darth Bane was just a Coward 😱, too Fearful of any one of the acolytes to get much power to usurp him. Just get a hardly ethical Monster inconceivable Mutant Enhanced Army, then get Darth Bane Killed, which Darth Zannah already got Darth Bane Killed💀.
Every Sith Lords after thought the Rule of Two made them powerful, would stop the usurping, but they were Wrong, Sidious usurped Plagueis got him Killed, Darth Tyranus was perhaps going to usurp Sidious with Asajj Ventress but was ordered to leave her to die, tried to usurp Sidous with Savage but Asajj Ventress revealed Savage's true intentions trying to Kill Tyranus.
Maul with his Brother Savage tried to usurp Sidious, but epic failed on Mandalore Sidious got Savage Killed, defeated Maul but said Don't worry I'm not going to kill you, I have other uses for you.
He was used on Mandalore commanding the Rogue Death Watch Mandalorians Warriors for Sidious, fought Ahsoka Padawan of Anakin, Ashoka defeated him on Mandalore with the help of Commander, arrested him told her Sidious plan to use the Clone Army to get the Jedi which he by announcing Execute Order Sixty Six he got the Inhibitor chip mind Controlled Clone Troopers to get most of the Jedi Killed immediately. Ahsoka plus Rex barely made it out of that Crashing Ship Alive.
So did Maul, in Rebels he looks for new acolytes to kill Inquistors, Sidious, Vader, try to get revenge on Obi Wan but failed, Obi Wan got Maul Killed.
Star Wars Empire Strikes Back + Return of the Jedi Vader still attempted to usurp Sidious by getting an Apprentice to help him, he wanted rule the Galaxy with his Luke, but if not he would try Leia his daughter, but Luke with his anger defeated Vader brought back the Lightside in Anakin, change of plans for Anakin, as he saw Sidious Lightning electrocute his son Anakin grabbed Sidious tossed him down the reactor getting Sidious Killed fulfilling the Chosen One Prophecy.
Kylo Ren try to usurp Snoke, then in Rise of Skywalker tried to Usurp then get Sidious Killed, but was turned back to the Lightside helped Rey get Sidious that had no Apprentices.
What other Sith fighters that the main Two Sith Lords mostly had were not more Lords, but they mostly had Sith Inquistors as seen in Star Wars Obi wan, Star Wars canon Comics, Star Wars Rebels.
Darth Nihilus, Darth Sion, Darth Traya in Star Wars KOTOR 2 along with every Other Sith in Star Wars The Old Republic would NEVER rid that Stupid Rule. The High Sith Lord Ruler could have just used this fountain that Sidious used in The Clone Wars Season Six Episode Thirteen kinda like Harry Potter Pensieve fountain of Historical memories, anyway it's a Fountain Sith use to view the Future Sidious used with Darth Tyranus to break Grandmaster Yoda.
Thanks to Ben Solo he gave Rey the other lightsaber for her to use Jar'kai, then Rey got Sheev Palpatine Killed.
With that fountain they can use it to view which exact Sith Acolytes will betray them, which ones won't, which ones will still stay loyal.
The High Sith Lord Ruler doesn't need a succerssor they can just use the Sith Holocrons to merge together to Gain Immortality like Darth Plagueis did controlling cells in his body to stop ageing, the Main Grandmaster Sith Lord Ruler can Chose which male Apprentice to be alongside to control the Entire Universe, makes sure the Acolyte past all Trials in the Gladiator Pits, then find Dangerous Creatures to have as Pet allied Warriors, then go Fight Neutral Enemies, fight off Worlder Alien Atrocities, Fight Main enemies such as the Republic, Voss, even Jedi in order that he is More Than enough Trustworthy to Become Besties, Cousins, Brothers or Sisters from another Mother.
But however even if that can't exactly see everything in the Future, then they'll do the next best thing to put inhibitor chips in the acolytes that have a unseen future like how they put Inhibitor chips to mind control the Clone Troopers to obey Orders without Questions, so they can either turn into monsters like how Darth Krayt was turned into a actual monster, turn tuem into cyborgs, or kill them. The deal they can Rule the Entire Universe together, or divide to each galaxies they want to rule, but the high Grandmaster Lady Sith Lord Ruler will control the whole Universe with their Sister from another Mother, successor, or Boyfriend. Or Incase the Grandmaster Main Sith Lord Ruler is a male wants a Female Sith Girlfriend he can do that as well, then just like Darth Tenebrae, Darth Sion, or Darth Plagueis seek out the secret of Becoming IMMORTAL BY STEALING MIGHTY ABELOTH'S OWN UNLIMITED HIGH SUPERPOWERS Same way as getting the One Being's Powers from Mortal Kombat Deception by using the Kamidogu, but in Mortal Kombat Ten Comics the Kamidogu are no longer Jewelries, they have been reshaped into Kamidogu blood Magik absorbing Daggers, so with Sith Advanced Alchemy we make replicate Mortis daggers with Blood Magic Kill Abeloth, get her Families Mortis the father, Winged Goddess the Daughter, Gargoyle the Son destroyed, but also take their SuperPowers seizing the Galaxy each region, not just that Galaxy but the Yuuzhong Vong Galaxy they originated from somewhere in Darkspace also Waru's Universe in dark space assuming he's not from another Dimension but most importantly TO CONTROL THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!
Legends > current canon
So, there is supposed to be a "Sith - Rule of Two", where yhere can be ONLY two Sith at a time, YET, there is a Darth Sidious (Master), a Darth Vader (Apprentice), AND a Darth Momen (?!?) running around doing Battle with Darth Vader.
So, if there is a Darth Vader doing Battle with a Darth Momon, what happened to Darth Sidious ?!?
Did Darth Sidious die ?!?
Oh, Wait !
Darth Sidious died on the Death Star # 2 !
Hmmmm, ...
So, ...
What's up with that ?!?
Three Sith running around, when there are ONLY supposed to be TWO at MOST at ANY time ?!?
Hmmmmmm, ... ... ...
Something is not Right here !
@Star Wars Reading Club
So do you think that the Sith should actually behave just like the Dark Cultists from the unknow regions?
If someone developed different philosophies or ways of thinking for the sith they’d be better off. By using the thought bomb bane effectively dwindled the amount of diverse thought and approach the sith could have. All successors would have a similar way of thinking. Which in turn meant they had no other approaches to compare against their own, so they couldn’t know whether it was right or wrong. Rule of fools
Well, that isn't entirely accurate, since each of the Rule of Two Sith were individuals with their own particular philosophies anyway, and each in their own way rejected aspects of Banes' thinking, most notably in how Plagueis and Sidious got rid of their respective masters (Tenebrous, also, was proud of Plagueis for murdering him-albeit fearing he had stranded himself- which implies that he too may have simply murdered his master rather than beating him in a duel), and how many of them took on their own apprentices.
Jonathan Campbell Yeah not entirely. Cause they did all deviate in some way. But that fundamental teaching of one master and apprentice still lingered for awhile.
Now we know he was looking for secret sith planet
I'm curious now. If someone else wore the helmet now, would Mom in be able to rise again, just like here? How does this portal/dimension work?
I have to agree with Momin
Now I'm really curious to see what would happen if Lord Momin encountered Darth Bane's own direct wisdom and conclusions about the Dark Side, instead what the Rule of Two became by the time of Darth Sidious and Darth Vader's Cycle. At the very least, Darth Revan's view, or what little we know of it, concerning harnessing the Dark Side of the Force by committing to it fully and letting it change you for that power...
In the end though, Vader killed Momin. So does this mean that Momin was wrong in his opinion? Or did he simply misinterpret the will of the Force? Not knowing that the Force was setting Vader up to betray Palpatine in Episode 6 and end the rule of 2?
Vader and Sidous, though not focused entirely on serving the force, had more raw power then most Sith from Momin's day, except for maybe Valkorian/Tenebrae. Though he followed the Dark Side more closely. Vader just had more raw power.
Thanks! Love the vids bro!
And now Lord Momin is suddenly a favorite SW character of mine just after learning of him...
This is why Traya wanted to destroy the Force, so she could be free from it's restraint.
sidious had become so desperate he literally made a second death star
When next stream?
About 40 minutes, at 3:30pm EST today. Just going to grab something to eat and then hop on. There is a lot to talk about today for sure! :)
@@starwarsreadingclub excellent
I want a Funko Pop of Lord Monin.
I have a question which sith male and female would have never lost to the rebellion?
@anyone I have only recently gotten into the novels and EU of star wars, what star wars novels would you recommend? I read Timothy Zahn's new Thrawn Duology and his original Thrawn Trilogy from 1994-96, as well as the outbound flight prequel. I enjoyed both of those sets and want to read more like it, the time period from ANH to TFA especially fascinates me. What is your favorite SW novel? It can be cannon or legends, I don't discriminate just want something to read.
I have been enjoying the original Darth Bane trilogy novels. They are pretty interesting and Bane is (in the Old Canon) a really compelling, complex, and terrifying figure. I also liked the original Thrawn trilogy as well as Zahn's Specter of the Pastand Vision of the Future which continues the developments of the original Thrawn trilogy.
Is that the Unicron Suite at the end?
Intestringly enough, there was hints to this at early expanded universe that ancient Sith were less than impressed with current Sith. Back in 1997, there was conclusion to "Dark empire" comic books called "empire's end". In there Palpatine consulted spirits of dead sith lords since ancient times, who basically scoffed to Palpatine's attempts to stave off death (Palpatine discovered way to cheat death with clone bodies, but internal power grab by deceitful sovereing protector, Carnor Jax, had left him with rapidly aging body without replacement) and treated him as substandard upstart. They begrudgingly(out of respect to sacrifices Palpatine had made to achieve his power) agreed to help him by telling that the only way for him to survive is to transfer his essence to youngest child of Leia and Han, Anakin Solo.
Couple things to note here was that in time of Dark Empire, Vader and Palpatine had not been retconned as Sith yet. They were supposed to be simply dark side users who had uncovered both Jedi and Sith techniques as well as developed new ones. Back then Exar Kun was the last sith lord as shown in Tales of the jedi comics that told the story of ancient times from great hyperspace war to great sith war. So in that perspective it made sense that ancient sith thought Vader and Palpatine were just imitators.
Okay I'm going to try to put this as succinctly as I can I really enjoyed your video I think you made a bunch of great points but I think that some folks don't understand of the Asian East influence in Star Wars the concept and principle of Yin Yang which has a principle of balance and I think that it is apparent that within the Star Wars Universe it doesn't really matter if you try to follow the force or if you try to grip it and grasp it and make it molded into your own tool . The point that I have seen through all of the lore of whether it's Cannon or whether it is Legends is that the force does as the force wills. The true balance of the force is the up and down trough and bows of the Jedi waning and waxing and the Sith waning and waxing true balance is achieved when the Jedi reach full power and the Sith are minimized and then Yin starts to grow and becomes the Sith growing into power until they are in full power and the Jedi are minimized. Constantly the Jedi are going to beat the Sith and then the Sith are going to beat the Jedi and then the Jedi are going to beat the Sith and then the Sith are going to beat the Jedi and that is the true balance of the force it is the up and downs of light and dark and the middle line between the troughs is the true balance. You can never extinguish the light truly, that's what Momin did not realize and the Jedi do not realize that you cannot truly defeat the dark it will always right itself even if the Sith had destroyed every Jedi in the universe there would still be born force-sensitives who are good in nature and who would discover their powers slowly but surely and maybe some would be born extremely force sensitive as Anakin Skywalker was and would manifest powers naturally so that the force which would grant that force-user incredible power and natural ability to where they could become a very proficient Grandmaster level Jedi in a very short period of time. That is what most don't seem to understand about balance.... balance is a series of homeostasis moments within and a construct and it doesn't matter what the individuals do. Those are all just moments and stops within time but have no true effect on the actual overall organism or system. Anyways I dont mean to sound preachy....this is merely my opinion and no more valid than anyone else's. Thanks for your video.
Two there should be; no more, no less. One to embody power, the other to crave it.
Momin would have hated Plaugis XD
That’s why I respect the Sith highly 👏🏾
Different ones through out time & history mainly have a different view on the DarkSide & don’t all think alike but when it comes to jedi THEY MAINLY FOLLOW EACHOTHERS VIEWS LIKE SHEEP 🤷🏾♂️.
We see Sidious fear of the Force striking back when he reports that the Force showed him that the death of Kanan Jarrus had changed the fate of Lothol, but he can't see how! The death of a Jedi was bad news? This made no sense as he believed killing off the Jedi would make him stronger in the Dark Side. Here we see how correct Monin is about the Sith of the Rule of Two.
Kanan's death inspired Ezra to sacrifice himself to get ride of Thrawn and his plans. Simple, but Sidious could not see it coming as the Dark Side began to blind him! Even Vader could not work out how Ezra, a Jedi, was able to activate the Temple on Mallacor as the Dark Side didn't want him to know.
The Dark Side is the path to many abilities, some considered to be unnatural. Like the Dark Side turning against the Sith!
Momin's criticism might hold water in Disney SW, but only because we know little about the ancient days. What Sith were primarily worshippers of the Dark Side in Legends? The initial dark Jedi exiles, Ajunta Pall and so on? The Sith Empire (key word, empire)? Exar Kun and his predecessors? Darth "It's all part of my plan" Revan? The Brotherhood of Darkness? Tenebrae "the Sith Order is just a tool to me" Vitiate? Darth "all the older Sith think I suck" Krayt? In Legends, 99.9% of Sith were focused on themselves first.
That said, even Disney SW raises objections. AFAIK, it's canon in both of the canons that, if you draw upon the Dark Side, you are making a deal with the Devil. You get its power, it gets to re-shape you in its image. Given that, it would follow that Sidious, Bane and so on are exactly what the Dark Side has molded them to be. I suspect that Momin is the exception, not the rule, a rare true believer that would find himself out of place whenever and wherever he went.
I fucking hate Snoke. It would be better for us all if we just pretended he does not exist. Disney really has a hard time creating new compeling ideas nowadays.
All they do now is rehash, remake, and that's about it.
Beautifully said. Bravo.
in this video expose ~ another example of the new canon having a trash retcon, this one Sideous just being Plagues mark II rather than SIDIOUS & #forbeinglordmomin
Nice time machine.
If it was an attack from the dark that ended things for Sidious and his Empire, Luke being overcome by the dark side long enough to beat Vader, but not kill him and be consumed by it, takes on a rather deeper meaning than I ever thought.
Like that pose of the Sith lords.. Would love to have a poster like that..
I think there is a universal law here that resonates with all beliefs. Goes along the lines if you focus on the negative (adversary), the mental power is allocated away from the path to true power. This is true with real meditation... if you focus on the problem (destruction) instead of the solution (creation), it will hold you back from your true potential.
Lord Momin is cool
You cannot destroy the Light or the Dark one cannot exist without the other The Light and The Dark side for the Force is one Force
Legends was awesome
I’m a year late. But I thought I should say.
This is what happens when opposites lose their ways, they fought each other so much, by the time the Jedi were victorious, they had forgotten what they fought for, as such they were aimless, and settled for being puppets, and their ‘faith’ was fighting evil and dark side.
On the other side of the coin, the Sith from the rule of two were mostly lost, without much guidance, defeating the Jedi became their main purpose, because they did not know much else.
It doesn't matter what Momin believes. He's no good to me dead.
The rule of two was weak. Dooku and his plan was the way I would've liked to have seen the Sith
Instead of "light" or "dark" ruling the galaxy... besides the few times we know. I wonder IF, probably not, but IF any group of Sith and Jedi EVER decided to SERIOUSLY try to make a serious United and lasting peace to jointly promote the Force perhaps even ruling as a reunited order?? Wonder if such a thought ever went through such heads and minds as Revan, Momin, Luke or Yoda for example???
Unfortunately, the two sides, Light and Dark, are inherently opposed. Both are beyond mere 'willingness' to use violence to try and advance their side over the other. The two believe they are in a zero sum game, where for one side to gain the other must lose and any loss for the other is a gain for their side. This makes any accord impossible.
@@Sorain1 yeah kinda got that too. Also lends itself to the story of how blindly against each other they are. An being obsessed with "their" side of the Force. Both polar opposites but still blinded by their beleifs.
Ya Lord Mommy- I mean Lord Momin, was quite the badass. I tend to agree with him amd his way of thinking. To try and control the dark side made them "weak", but only by fully embracing the dark side and following it's will can they fully tap into "THE POWAH OF THE DAHK SIDE"!!!
Misleading title, it's true Palps was more worried about politics than serving the dark side but he was born a politician. The Rule of Two has nothing to do with his and Vader's political leanings. And If Palpy hadn't gone into politics, where would we be now? What king of story would that be?!
Hmmmm..... So, its clear that the light and dark sides of the force are sentient and are willing to bend fate. While their servants the Jedi and the Sith are determined to destroy each other. The Dark and Light sides of the force do not share this sentiment. Just as the light side struck back against the Jedi and the Dark side eventually struck back at the Sith for the same reasons. Fascinating! :O
Lord Momin a dark side artist indeed.
I wonder what Momin would think of Qui Gon Jinn, who also felt serving the Force was more important than the Council or the Senate.
Practical Theist he respect him for actually following the true Jedi way and serve the light as Jedi were meant to not serve politics
Yeah… Honoring the darkside gives you true power! That's how Momin survived and beat Vader... oh wait… nvm
Momin is basically immortal thou lmao