I don't ride any manufacturer's front or rear wings(I make my own) but SAABfoil front connection to wing is much weaker than Armstrong. The comments about how high you can ride should be corrected to being about ability and stabiliser efficiency, size and distance behind mast. I used to think Axis crazyshort fuselage was on the short side but from late last year I ride the Axis Advance Crazy short and find it great with just my own diy 300 sqcm stabiliser and my own front wings. One of my friends rides Armstrong and his fuselage is about a 1/3'rd longer than mine, he has more ability than me but the length of his Armstrong fuselage seems excessive. My impressions about SAABFOIL have been that they are primarily focussed on race. Armstrong are based in NZ as am I and their owner wouldn't tolerate flimsy design, I've heard he surfs too close to rocks and I understand it, when you make the foils you ride, every foil is a learning opportunity for that design iteration and scratching it up is OK if you can fix it! Ultimately you have to choose the best foils fit for the locations you ride. If that's big slow waves then it's going to be about agility of the foil. If it's small fast waves then it's about a fast foil. If you have trade winds then glide is not as important as if you have a gusty location like I do. I suspect I know why you report SABFOIL Razor Pro as having surfier feel than the Armstrong HA and it's probably from 2 subtle differences. The Armstrong foil tips are more forward than those of the SAAB and likely thicker. This makes them less pitch-steering responsive. My current lastest and favorite design is lower aspect ratio than these, around 7.9 However I did that on purpose. Big sweep back, big chord reduction towards the tips and extra thinning closer to the wingtips. One session on it and I absolutely love it's speed and handling of everything I tried with it. Understand when comparing Armstrong and SAABFOIL that speed and glide are not everything. It's matching your use case and your local conditions to the foil that best fits. If you work your foils hard in waves then be sure you have kit that can handle the stresses of those huge leverages.
Thank you for the thoughtful comments, I agree with most of your points. The fact that you’re manufacturing your own front and rear wings is absolutely amazing! I tried to compare both kits as they have similar dimensions, and fuselage length is a couple of centimeters apart, I feel that pitch stability in this particular case comes from front wing geometry more so than fuselage length difference. My POV is strictly based on winging in South Florida conditions which are 8-12 kts at best…so glide is one of the most important elements when evaluating foils…and at my beginner level. SABFOIL 975 front wing has a very unique geometry, glide is closer to my old ART PRO 1051 (which was at the top of my quiver) and turnability of a smaller wing. The issue with the stabilizer-mast fitment comes from the fact that SABFOIL are trying new anodized graphite alloy that is supposed to be super light and stiff, but difficult to manufacture. I sent the mast and fuselage back to SABFOIL, eager to see what they determine after inspecting the parts. Based on the video I sent them, SABFOIL said the connection has too much play…we’ll see. Thank you again and hope to see you on the water one day 😊
Thank you for your comment! SABFOIL asked me to send the mast and fuselage back to them, so it would be awhile before I get it back. Will do a full review once I get it back.
Thanks, I appreciate your comparison.
hey thx... my connection is also a little loser than the regular sabfoil 83mk mast. I will write sabfoil as well as I just got this foil combo...
I don't ride any manufacturer's front or rear wings(I make my own) but SAABfoil front connection to wing is much weaker than Armstrong. The comments about how high you can ride should be corrected to being about ability and stabiliser efficiency, size and distance behind mast. I used to think Axis crazyshort fuselage was on the short side but from late last year I ride the Axis Advance Crazy short and find it great with just my own diy 300 sqcm stabiliser and my own front wings. One of my friends rides Armstrong and his fuselage is about a 1/3'rd longer than mine, he has more ability than me but the length of his Armstrong fuselage seems excessive. My impressions about SAABFOIL have been that they are primarily focussed on race. Armstrong are based in NZ as am I and their owner wouldn't tolerate flimsy design, I've heard he surfs too close to rocks and I understand it, when you make the foils you ride, every foil is a learning opportunity for that design iteration and scratching it up is OK if you can fix it! Ultimately you have to choose the best foils fit for the locations you ride. If that's big slow waves then it's going to be about agility of the foil. If it's small fast waves then it's about a fast foil. If you have trade winds then glide is not as important as if you have a gusty location like I do. I suspect I know why you report SABFOIL Razor Pro as having surfier feel than the Armstrong HA and it's probably from 2 subtle differences. The Armstrong foil tips are more forward than those of the SAAB and likely thicker. This makes them less pitch-steering responsive. My current lastest and favorite design is lower aspect ratio than these, around 7.9 However I did that on purpose. Big sweep back, big chord reduction towards the tips and extra thinning closer to the wingtips. One session on it and I absolutely love it's speed and handling of everything I tried with it. Understand when comparing Armstrong and SAABFOIL that speed and glide are not everything. It's matching your use case and your local conditions to the foil that best fits. If you work your foils hard in waves then be sure you have kit that can handle the stresses of those huge leverages.
Thank you for the thoughtful comments, I agree with most of your points. The fact that you’re manufacturing your own front and rear wings is absolutely amazing! I tried to compare both kits as they have similar dimensions, and fuselage length is a couple of centimeters apart, I feel that pitch stability in this particular case comes from front wing geometry more so than fuselage length difference. My POV is strictly based on winging in South Florida conditions which are 8-12 kts at best…so glide is one of the most important elements when evaluating foils…and at my beginner level.
SABFOIL 975 front wing has a very unique geometry, glide is closer to my old ART PRO 1051 (which was at the top of my quiver) and turnability of a smaller wing. The issue with the stabilizer-mast fitment comes from the fact that SABFOIL are trying new anodized graphite alloy that is supposed to be super light and stiff, but difficult to manufacture. I sent the mast and fuselage back to SABFOIL, eager to see what they determine after inspecting the parts. Based on the video I sent them, SABFOIL said the connection has too much play…we’ll see. Thank you again and hope to see you on the water one day 😊
Waiting for the sabfoil review 😊
Thank you for your comment! SABFOIL asked me to send the mast and fuselage back to them, so it would be awhile before I get it back. Will do a full review once I get it back.
No worries. I am still a beginner and learning to gybe with my beginner gear (gong). But I plan to buy into sabfoil system later on.