**YET ANOTHER UPDATE!!** turns out the "8 amp mode" is actually still 10 amps - BUT it uses a charging curve thats compatible with most all AGM wheelchair batteries AND the voltage doesn't go as high! **UPDATE** (again) so after talking to a few people in the industry that see these chairs on a daily basis, we've all agreed that its "ok" to use a GOOD QUALITY 8 amp charger on the volt pro batteries (in this instance i'm referring to the gray upright permobil chargers (made by ePowerFirst) the only 'negative' effect, is charging with the 8 amp profile may not get them up to their full capacity AND you DO NOT want to leave the charger plugged in more than 24 hours. HOWEVER... you DO NOT want to charge ANY MK-power batteries with the 10 amp mode on the volt pro charger!! this will 100% cause swelling and damage to the batteries within a few cycles (again im talking about the VOLT PRO charger specifically - the 10 amp charging profile exceeds the 'safe' charging voltages for MK and other brands of batteries with THIS charger) obviously permobil ONLY recommends using the volt pro charger on their new volt pro batteries.. however data from the field over the last 2 years shows that using an 8 amp (permobil branded) charger wont damage anything again i realize this is a specialist industry, and there are MANY other/better options for dealing with lead acid batteries but i'm just focusing on OEM chargers and batteries here also this conversation is NOT about lithium swaps. let's stick to the topic at hand :^)
Appreciate the video Dan. Went to my DME last week to have new batteries installed in my F5. Called ahead of time and asked them what brand of batteries they have; they only stock MK batteries. I am okay with that as I have used MK batteries for years with previous wheelchairs. Brought my charger along and specifically asked the technician to change the charger mode to 8 amps. They did not understand what I was asking. Went home and changed the mode myself.
After realizing my permobil hasn't been charging for a couple days play some research I came across your video after drive to Georgia last night, and realizing and did not charge I was under the joystick and realize that the charging port was fried I called the place that I got the wheelchair they are putting a call permobil I want to see what happens thank you for sharing this information because without it I would have been totally lost thank you Eric from Ohio
Some great info here - thanks for showing all this! I was ready to use my current charger (from my 2016 chair (though it might be newer than that)) with my new 2022 F5, but it looks like there IS actually a difference! My DME and I were basically of the mind "they send new ones with new chairs all the time, use what you've got." I'll have to mention this to him.
just dont use the new charger on OLDER chairs unless its been set to the 8 amp mode.. MK batteries dont like the default charging profile on the volt pro chargers at all! (they get damaged super easily with the higher amperage and voltage)
Furthermore, the client should get the box for the charger, as well as seating boxes with all pamphlets that came with them and any or all accessories. Otherwise you technically are not getting a new product .
im on my 2nd controller (being replaced Thurs) that the yellow plastic has broken. its been hard to get the DIN plug out. this explains everything.,..thank you.
Batteries are both more expensive and not covered by insurance in 🍁Canada 🍁. This is true for when you first get your chair as well as when you inevitably need to replace them. Your guidance on optimum battery charging and care is appreciated. Thanks...
Yeah... I had that issue. Took close to a year to get everything fixed and back to normal. Ended up needing new batteries because that charger damaged my original batteries. Specifically the issue was due to the metal used to coat the positive lead on the charging plug. The current would break down the metal coating that lead, and that's when it would start overheating and melt your charging port.
That Permobil charger is identical to the Invacare Opticharge 8 charger supplied by Invacare in the UK; the '8' referring to the preset 8 amp setting although under the warning sticker is also the option to change the amperage setting from 8 to 10.
interesting... ill have to look into that! i've been working on looking up the CSA regulatory testing certificates on these new chargers so see if i can find out more about them, and their "secret' charging profiles lol
When I give these chargers to clients no matter weather it’s the permobil batts or any other I automatically switch it to the reg 8 amp mode. The reason for this is because I play it safe. And so many times people will use the same charger on multiple chairs. Also to this day I’m still getting the faulty chargers melting the ports.
glad to know someone out there takes the time set things up properly! lol and yes - you can bet at some point, they're gonna get plugged into an older chair for sure!
Interesting info! I got my brand new Permobil M3 last summer and it came with some generic 8A charger. Also it didn't have Permobil connect module installed :D I live in Europe.
@@TotallyNormal- yeah 😀 The place where i got my chair is our countrys official distributor of Permobil. They said that the charger they gave to me was new to them also, so they didn’t even know if it would work etc 😂 I guess it doesn’t void warranty then 💁♂️ The charger i got is WPC 500. Seems like it is made in Sweden, as is my Permobil chair so.
I've got a 3 pin GST connected directly to the batteries and the centre pin to the middle so I can check individual voltage. Got and old 'gamma' charger fiddled to charge at 16A on the other end 😈
Dats what I think is wrong with my battery display issues .. that programming has to be set to a non dolphin charger lol My male connector has loosening at the joystick female connection. Using the 24 v Lester charger that gets warm
Thanks, this video was super helpful after our DME swapped the batteries on my son's Permobil F3 and said "You don't need another charger, just flip the dip switch on the bottom of the Volt Pro. We did wonder though: was putting older batteries in the F3 really an acceptable move by them? (It was in the context of a weird scheduling thing where the front office said "You need batteries sooner? Just take the chair to the warehouse in person." but, according to the warehouse manager, didn't really realize that different Permobil chairs require different batteries, and they might not have the newer ones in stock.) Anyways, is there any functional reason that running a newer Permobil F3 off of older batteries using the 8A charging mode will limit my son's usage? If I were to guess, I would surmise that it probably just means that it will take slightly longer to charge over night, but not noticeably so. Any comments?
hopefully they installed MK batteries! permobil used MK Power batteries for years - they're kinda the de-facto standard for wheelchair manufacturers - nothing wrong with them at all, and can last several years with proper charging habits. the new volt pro batteries in theory can get you 1-3 more miles of range - and maybe change up a bit faster. IMO they're not anything to write home about :^)
There really Should be DC to DC Chargers for chairs. How great would it be to charge your chair in rush hour to and from home in your vehicle. My van's built-in 120v inventer only outputs 130 watts, So I would need a mobile charger to charge The chair at the proper voltage at a lower amperage. Not to mention wanting to charge a chair directly from solar charge controllers or from other, random, 12v sources.
Question.. I bought the Dewalt charger/inverter/ tire inflator/ usb connections etc .. the big guy that can be used on a V.8 . I want to plug my wheelchair into it / the charger .. during long travels , as needed . Will the Dewalt be of concern to the joystick female 3 pin connection ?? Would it melt the yellow plastic .. or the 4 pin able should I find a adapter wire to bypass the joystick going to the charger plugged into the Dewalt ??? Or plugged into a smaller portable charger ? ( 24 v vs the 24 v 5 smp
Thanks for the “heads up” Dan. I’m getting a New F5 this Thursday. Can I still use my “Lester 18330” 24v 8a to charge the New F5 or do I need the 10a for these new batteries? Ed D.
so the old school transformer based chargers aren't the 'best' thing to charge with.. their absorption and float charging modes are a bit ambiguous.. ive pinned a comment at the top of this video with some more information though :^)
Hello, I just received my new power chair today and came with a volt pro charger. Now, I have read the manual and thanks to your video I understand what I am supposed to see on the charge when I plug it in to the wall. My question is, am I supposed to hear a fan running (like my previous charger) or any other charging indicators besides the lights on the charger itself? Thank you for your time.
I know this is not about the per mobile charger but I have mk gell batterys and a 8amp upg charger set to gell and I have gotten about three years using my chair every single day so I guess that's not to bad . But i probably should get ahold of my dme and have my insurance cover new batteries.
My batteries were just replaced. I have a f3, got it in 2022. They used non-permobil batteries when replacing. I think they said they are 70ah, not sure what volt? Should I switch my charger to this setting '3'? Are there any downsides/risks to having the charger on setting '3'...
the voltage will be the same no matter what batteries they used.. BUT if your chair previously had the permobil branded batteries and the charger was setup for them, the setting will need to be changed. the charging profile for permobil batteries can fry other brands if it isn't changed. "mode 3" is the proper charging profile for NON-Permobil branded batteries :^)
I have a question. I have an old F3 with MK battery (73Ah). I am currently using the gray vertical charger to charge the battery. Can I change VoltPro to 8amp mode and use the same?
those gray upright chargers are my favorite stock chargers! in theory putting the volt pro charger in 8 amp mode should emulated that gray charger. DO NOT use it in the 10 amp (higher voltage) mode with MK batteries though! im in the process of testing the voltage curves of the 8 amp mode right now.. should have results in a week or so!
@@TotallyNormal- Thank you for your response. Please let me know if you find the test results. I am currently using a combination of MK batteries and a gray vertical charger. I am planning to purchase the VoltPro first as I will be changing to Permobil batteries in the future. So I was wondering if changing the VoltPro to 8 amp mode would charge the MK battery as well.
Dme replaced the joystick, but would not replace the charger, now the joystick needs replacing again, l even told them the charger needed to be replaced
My f3 provided in Nov of 2020 has the issue of metal part overheating and controller melting. Permobil replaced controller and charger about 9 months ago. I notice now the chair takes a lot longer to charge and my power consumption drops like a rock after moderate daily use. Could the batteries have been compromised with the old charger? Would you know if Permobil guarantees batteries; I mean yesterday I went 6/10 of a mile and my batteries dropped under 50%!
its hard to tell what the dealers/DME's are doing.. i've heard from a few people now that their batteries were swapped out (with another brand) without being told about it! short version.. using a permobil branded 8 amp charger wont 'hurt' the new volt pro batteries.. they just may not charge up to their FULL capacity. (but they should still rival the range of an MK power battery even with 'partial' charging with an 8 amp charger) i've noticed as well on my 2021 F3 that on the 10 amp mode, it hasn't finished charging sometimes now after 10-11 hours of being plugged in! BUT i do know that heat can correlate with a bad connection.. and as a result your batteries could have been severely overcharged as a result of the faulty/melting connector! (since with a bad connection the charger isnt able to read the battery voltage properly) hence - they easily could have been toasted.. i pinned a comment at the top of this video with some more information :^)
I got my new M300 HD about 18 months ago. The new chair said it had the new Permobil batteries and had the new VoltPro charger. When they changed the batteries they were MKs and even though I demanded Permobil batteries they installed MKs. Is the 10amp ok with MKs?
i'd stick with the 8 amp charging... since permobil doesnt provide specifics with how exactly the 10 amp mode works, its hard to know if its outside the specs of what MK batteries should be charged with
update - using the volt pro charger with MK power batteries in 10 amp mode will 100% damage them! (ive pinned a comment at the top of this video with more information :^)
**YET ANOTHER UPDATE!!**
turns out the "8 amp mode" is actually still 10 amps - BUT it uses a charging curve thats compatible with most all AGM wheelchair batteries AND the voltage doesn't go as high!
**UPDATE** (again)
so after talking to a few people in the industry that see these chairs on a daily basis, we've all agreed that its "ok" to use a GOOD QUALITY 8 amp charger on the volt pro batteries
(in this instance i'm referring to the gray upright permobil chargers (made by ePowerFirst)
the only 'negative' effect, is charging with the 8 amp profile may not get them up to their full capacity AND you DO NOT want to leave the charger plugged in more than 24 hours.
HOWEVER... you DO NOT want to charge ANY MK-power batteries with the 10 amp mode on the volt pro charger!!
this will 100% cause swelling and damage to the batteries within a few cycles
(again im talking about the VOLT PRO charger specifically - the 10 amp charging profile exceeds the 'safe' charging voltages for MK and other brands of batteries with THIS charger)
obviously permobil ONLY recommends using the volt pro charger on their new volt pro batteries..
however data from the field over the last 2 years shows that using an 8 amp (permobil branded) charger wont damage anything
again i realize this is a specialist industry, and there are MANY other/better options for dealing with lead acid batteries
but i'm just focusing on OEM chargers and batteries here
also this conversation is NOT about lithium swaps. let's stick to the topic at hand :^)
Appreciate the video Dan. Went to my DME last week to have new batteries installed in my F5. Called ahead of time and asked them what brand of batteries they have; they only stock MK batteries. I am okay with that as I have used MK batteries for years with previous wheelchairs. Brought my charger along and specifically asked the technician to change the charger mode to 8 amps. They did not understand what I was asking. Went home and changed the mode myself.
After realizing my permobil hasn't been charging for a couple days play some research I came across your video after drive to Georgia last night, and realizing and did not charge I was under the joystick and realize that the charging port was fried I called the place that I got the wheelchair they are putting a call permobil I want to see what happens thank you for sharing this information because without it I would have been totally lost thank you Eric from Ohio
hopefully they get things sorted out quickly for ya!
My chair is under warranty and they are replacing the charging port and the charger thank you again for best video
Thanks for the information update Dan .
Some great info here - thanks for showing all this! I was ready to use my current charger (from my 2016 chair (though it might be newer than that)) with my new 2022 F5, but it looks like there IS actually a difference! My DME and I were basically of the mind "they send new ones with new chairs all the time, use what you've got." I'll have to mention this to him.
just dont use the new charger on OLDER chairs unless its been set to the 8 amp mode.. MK batteries dont like the default charging profile on the volt pro chargers at all! (they get damaged super easily with the higher amperage and voltage)
Thanks alot man you doing a great job.
Furthermore, the client should get the box for the charger, as well as seating boxes with all pamphlets that came with them and any or all accessories. Otherwise you technically are not getting a new product .
Thanks! Very helpful info for me
im on my 2nd controller (being replaced Thurs) that the yellow plastic has broken. its been hard to get the DIN plug out. this explains everything.,..thank you.
Batteries are both more expensive and not covered by insurance in 🍁Canada 🍁. This is true for when you first get your chair as well as when you inevitably need to replace them. Your guidance on optimum battery charging and care is appreciated.
Thanks...
Yeah... I had that issue. Took close to a year to get everything fixed and back to normal. Ended up needing new batteries because that charger damaged my original batteries.
Specifically the issue was due to the metal used to coat the positive lead on the charging plug. The current would break down the metal coating that lead, and that's when it would start overheating and melt your charging port.
That Permobil charger is identical to the Invacare Opticharge 8 charger supplied by Invacare in the UK; the '8' referring to the preset 8 amp setting although under the warning sticker is also the option to change the amperage setting from 8 to 10.
interesting... ill have to look into that!
i've been working on looking up the CSA regulatory testing certificates on these new chargers so see if i can find out more about them, and their "secret' charging profiles lol
When I give these chargers to clients no matter weather it’s the permobil batts or any other I automatically switch it to the reg 8 amp mode. The reason for this is because I play it safe. And so many times people will use the same charger on multiple chairs. Also to this day I’m still getting the faulty chargers melting the ports.
glad to know someone out there takes the time set things up properly! lol
and yes - you can bet at some point, they're gonna get plugged into an older chair for sure!
Interesting info! I got my brand new Permobil M3 last summer and it came with some generic 8A charger. Also it didn't have Permobil connect module installed :D I live in Europe.
sounds like you're all set then! haha
@@TotallyNormal- yeah 😀 The place where i got my chair is our countrys official distributor of Permobil. They said that the charger they gave to me was new to them also, so they didn’t even know if it would work etc 😂 I guess it doesn’t void warranty then 💁♂️
The charger i got is WPC 500. Seems like it is made in Sweden, as is my Permobil chair so.
I've got a 3 pin GST connected directly to the batteries and the centre pin to the middle so I can check individual voltage. Got and old 'gamma' charger fiddled to charge at 16A on the other end 😈
Yeah, I had one which melted the port on my controller, both it and my charger had to be replaced. Scary as... as I couldn't separate them myself!
My quickie's 10 amps charger killed my cjsm2 and ISM, both bus cables and eventually died from "faulty" components... People, go for the 7/8 amps...
Dats what I think is wrong with my battery display issues .. that programming has to be set to a non dolphin charger lol
My male connector has loosening at the joystick female connection. Using the 24 v Lester charger that gets warm
Thanks, this video was super helpful after our DME swapped the batteries on my son's Permobil F3 and said "You don't need another charger, just flip the dip switch on the bottom of the Volt Pro. We did wonder though: was putting older batteries in the F3 really an acceptable move by them? (It was in the context of a weird scheduling thing where the front office said "You need batteries sooner? Just take the chair to the warehouse in person." but, according to the warehouse manager, didn't really realize that different Permobil chairs require different batteries, and they might not have the newer ones in stock.) Anyways, is there any functional reason that running a newer Permobil F3 off of older batteries using the 8A charging mode will limit my son's usage? If I were to guess, I would surmise that it probably just means that it will take slightly longer to charge over night, but not noticeably so. Any comments?
hopefully they installed MK batteries!
permobil used MK Power batteries for years - they're kinda the de-facto standard for wheelchair manufacturers - nothing wrong with them at all, and can last several years with proper charging habits. the new volt pro batteries in theory can get you 1-3 more miles of range - and maybe change up a bit faster. IMO they're not anything to write home about :^)
@@TotallyNormal- Thanks for the quick and helpful response! You've really helped fill in the blank for us here. Cheers!
There really Should be DC to DC Chargers for chairs. How great would it be to charge your chair in rush hour to and from home in your vehicle. My van's built-in 120v inventer only outputs 130 watts, So I would need a mobile charger to charge The chair at the proper voltage at a lower amperage. Not to mention wanting to charge a chair directly from solar charge controllers or from other, random, 12v sources.
yea.. in a vehicle there's a not of needless power conversion going on if the 120v outlet gets used! hah
Question..
I bought the Dewalt charger/inverter/ tire inflator/ usb connections etc .. the big guy that can be used on a V.8 .
I want to plug my wheelchair into it / the charger .. during long travels , as needed .
Will the Dewalt be of concern to the joystick female 3 pin connection ?? Would it melt the yellow plastic .. or the 4 pin able should I find a adapter wire to bypass the joystick going to the charger plugged into the Dewalt ??? Or plugged into a smaller portable charger ? ( 24 v vs the 24 v 5 smp
Thanks for the “heads up” Dan. I’m getting a New F5 this Thursday. Can I still use my “Lester 18330” 24v 8a to charge the New F5 or do I need the 10a for these new batteries? Ed D.
so the old school transformer based chargers aren't the 'best' thing to charge with.. their absorption and float charging modes are a bit ambiguous..
ive pinned a comment at the top of this video with some more information though :^)
Melted mine. It's been fixed and seems to run fine.
My late 2021 M5 did not come with one of these chargers.
Thanks Bro🤘🤘
Hello, I just received my new power chair today and came with a volt pro charger. Now, I have read the manual and thanks to your video I understand what I am supposed to see on the charge when I plug it in to the wall. My question is, am I supposed to hear a fan running (like my previous charger) or any other charging indicators besides the lights on the charger itself? Thank you for your time.
No fans.. just the BRIGHT lights on the front :-)
@@TotallyNormal- thanks
@@TotallyNormal-those bright lights disturb my sleep.
Why when I plug my charger in the band c light are blinking??
Tim the toolman taylor says......
MORE POWER ......grunt grunt grunt
I know this is not about the per mobile charger but I have mk gell batterys and a 8amp upg charger set to gell and I have gotten about three years using my chair every single day so I guess that's not to bad . But i probably should get ahold of my dme and have my insurance cover new batteries.
an 8 amp charger is just fine for MK batteries :^)
What's it mean when the whole display on a Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0 (Q-Logic 2) flashes on and off? I think the batteries might be toast.
does the chair stop moving when it happens? id check the battery voltage WHEN its happening if its easy to reproduce the problem..
@Totally Normal it doesn't turn on. Sometimes the Quantum logo comes up then the display flashes. Tried putting it on charge but nothing.
What does it mean when one green light and two orange lights are showing permobil volt pro charger
Means chair is about 75% charged
My batteries were just replaced. I have a f3, got it in 2022. They used non-permobil batteries when replacing. I think they said they are 70ah, not sure what volt? Should I switch my charger to this setting '3'? Are there any downsides/risks to having the charger on setting '3'...
the voltage will be the same no matter what batteries they used.. BUT if your chair previously had the permobil branded batteries and the charger was setup for them, the setting will need to be changed. the charging profile for permobil batteries can fry other brands if it isn't changed. "mode 3" is the proper charging profile for NON-Permobil branded batteries :^)
Thanks a lot! @@TotallyNormal-
thanks🙂
I have a question.
I have an old F3 with MK battery (73Ah).
I am currently using the gray vertical charger to charge the battery.
Can I change VoltPro to 8amp mode and use the same?
those gray upright chargers are my favorite stock chargers! in theory putting the volt pro charger in 8 amp mode should emulated that gray charger. DO NOT use it in the 10 amp (higher voltage) mode with MK batteries though!
im in the process of testing the voltage curves of the 8 amp mode right now.. should have results in a week or so!
@@TotallyNormal-
Thank you for your response.
Please let me know if you find the test results.
I am currently using a combination of MK batteries and a gray vertical charger.
I am planning to purchase the VoltPro first as I will be changing to Permobil batteries in the future.
So I was wondering if changing the VoltPro to 8 amp mode would charge the MK battery as well.
Dme replaced the joystick, but would not replace the charger, now the joystick needs replacing again, l even told them the charger needed to be replaced
yeaa.. thats frustrating.... ugh
My f3 provided in Nov of 2020 has the issue of metal part overheating and controller melting. Permobil replaced controller and charger about 9 months ago. I notice now the chair takes a lot longer to charge and my power consumption drops like a rock after moderate daily use. Could the batteries have been compromised with the old charger? Would you know if Permobil guarantees batteries; I mean yesterday I went 6/10 of a mile and my batteries dropped under 50%!
its hard to tell what the dealers/DME's are doing.. i've heard from a few people now that their batteries were swapped out (with another brand) without being told about it!
short version.. using a permobil branded 8 amp charger wont 'hurt' the new volt pro batteries.. they just may not charge up to their FULL capacity. (but they should still rival the range of an MK power battery even with 'partial' charging with an 8 amp charger)
i've noticed as well on my 2021 F3 that on the 10 amp mode, it hasn't finished charging sometimes now after 10-11 hours of being plugged in!
BUT i do know that heat can correlate with a bad connection.. and as a result your batteries could have been severely overcharged as a result of the faulty/melting connector! (since with a bad connection the charger isnt able to read the battery voltage properly)
hence - they easily could have been toasted..
i pinned a comment at the top of this video with some more information :^)
Sometimes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it with a higher voltage!
I got my new M300 HD about 18 months ago. The new chair said it had the new Permobil batteries and had the new VoltPro charger. When they changed the batteries they were MKs and even though I demanded Permobil batteries they installed MKs. Is the 10amp ok with MKs?
i'd stick with the 8 amp charging... since permobil doesnt provide specifics with how exactly the 10 amp mode works, its hard to know if its outside the specs of what MK batteries should be charged with
update - using the volt pro charger with MK power batteries in 10 amp mode will 100% damage them! (ive pinned a comment at the top of this video with more information :^)
HOW Can communicate with you
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