T'au Empire Units Tier List in 10th Edition Warhammer 40K - Strongest and Weakest Tau Datasheets?
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- Let's talk through the strongest and weakest looking datasheets from Codex T'au Empire from first impressions from the Codex...
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0:00 Intro
0:22 T'au Tier List
2:35 Tier 4
6:26 Tier 3
15:37 Tier 2
26:07 Tier 1
41:21 Outro - Hry
Is it strong? No. But putting a squad of pathfinders in a tidewall gunrig is pretty funny with the amount of rail weapons
Don't forget the Pathfinders give the gunrig scout if they start in it xD
@@RitoNiko No they dont, because the Gunrig is not a Dedicated Transport(just a Transport).
@@fendelphi After looking up the rules, it's only dedicated transports that can benefit from the scout of the unit inside. You can however still start the pathfinders in the gunrig, it just wont get scout.
@@RitoNiko You can, or you can bring an extra unit of Pathfinders, or bring a Devilfish to transport them(which does get Scout in this case).
Most people take Pathfinders, because they can help you control the middle board with Infiltration and/or Scouting in the early turns, or because they assist with spotting.
Putting them in a Gunrig does the opposite.
Vespids jump in the T'au player's movement, not their opponent's. I like vespids, but that rule is absolutely worthless.
It's good for denying rapid ingress. You drop them down, ask if your opponents wants to ingress, then pick them back up. You can do this over and over.
@@ComplexConcept Sorry I am a little unclear - how does that deny rapid ingress? RI acts at the end of the movement phase, which means you can use it after you've picked up the unit...?
@docken11 both RI and picking up vespids happen at the end of your movement phase, as the active player you get to choose which happens first. So reinforcements step you bring them in, then the movement phase ends, then you ask if they want to RI, then you pick up your vespids
@@docken11 he means that you can use vespids to screen out areas that you otherwise couldn't reach. Which could be a substantial area if you have three squads of vespids and it would only cost 195 points. Is 10% of your army worth messing with your opponent's RI? Depends on the match up and how competitive the game is. In my play group I am the only one that ever uses RI, so I failed to consider that application.
@@ComplexConcept Thanks for the answers guys! Makes sense now
Minor correction with the firesight marksman, im pretty sure all the observer warlord traits require you to lead a unit to be able to use them. So yes you can put them on him, but he cannot use them.
Yup!
Those traits become kinda rubbish because of that.
Stealth suits are going to do work in Retaliation Cadre. Remember that they are Battlesuits so they get the bonus to strength and AP up close, plus they can fire and fade, fail safe detonator and have all their usual buffs.
60 pts for 8 Str 6 AP -1 shots, plus the gun drone w/ 2 Str 6 AP -1 twin linked shots, AND the Fusion blaster is a Str 10 AP -5 Melta is absolutely bananas
I wanna defend the barracuda a bit here: it is a much better flyer than either tiger shark for the simple reason that it can shoot on the turn it comes down onto the board. The tiger sharks' bases are just over 6" and so per the dev commentary can arrive via strat reserves but cannot shoot on the turn they arrive, making both variants deadweight on their first turn. on top of that the barracuda can be equipped with a railgun and 4 seeker missiles. have it be spotted by tetras or stealth suits and you can do some nasty damage to a vehicle that you might otherwise struggle to draw line of sight to. Its only issue is the cost: 220 is a bit expensive, it would probably be more accurately priced in the 180-200 range. the tiger sharks are currently downright unplayable unfortunately.
the razorshark also deserves a little love: it too can use strat reserves to draw line of sight and on top of that if you can spot for it, it can hit ground units on a 2+ and wound t4 on a 2+. It might not be worth 165 where for the same cost you could take a riptide, but in isolation it's not bad at all and certainly a step above the sunshark.
As for the yvahra and rvarna: I honestly feel they should come down to about 150-160 pts each given they're both 'riptide but worse' (even the extra wound is a detriment, giving up an extra point on bring it down despite having a worse invulnerable save). at their current price point the yvahra does benefit from retaliation cadre (a 10 shot s7 ap-2 dam1 flamer is nice) but they're both still underwhelming.
You can drop Tigershark and shoot in the same turn, if You place it in a corner of a battlefield. Here's enough place for 160mm base to be within 6" from the edge's. So, i guess, Tigershark is a perfect alfa-strike flyer, as it ignores obscuring and often can destroy any target You want
@@user-db2vw9lw9c this is incorrect and has been ruled incorrect by judges at events. it has to be wholly within 6" of ONE battlefield edge. The only option is to rapid ingress the tiger shark, then on your subsequent turn it can shoot.
@@ReqqlesWholly within 6" of any battlefield edge means wholly within 6" of one or more battlefield edges. At least, I see it so in Rules Commentaries
@@user-db2vw9lw9c The text is 'wholly within 6" of a battlefield edge'. 'a' means one, not one or more. I wish it worked the way you're interpreting it to, or that tiger sharks got the deep strike keyword so it doesn't matter, but unfortunately that is simply not the case.
@@ReqqlesText is "...set up wholly within 6" of any battlefield edge...", not within 6" of a battlefield edge. I see it in a GW's app, maybe, it's written differently in other sources
I am surprised you`ve put the Lone Spear at T3, I think this is a really viable option (points depending) for some cheaper lone op.
Thanks for the run through of the datasheets 👍
I hope the Stormsurge will cheapen from it's 400pts as I like my Mofos in Warhammer.
Stormsurge is singlehandedly screwed by the awful split fire double penalty of the faction rule. What a miss for that to remain unchanged in the codex.
It does suck that the penalty wasn't just removed, but the stormsurge can effectively ignore it as long as it stays still
@@quingo1139 well no, because you still suffer the penalty and hit on 4+ off the main target. That's not ignoring. That's somewhat compensating (aside from how rarely you can actually make heavy do something).
But yeah. Shoulda removed the penalty. Split fire would already be punished by hitting worse by 1 and not ignoring cover.
@@theStamax I think he's referring to using the Heavy rule to effectively still get a 3+ without guiding it. Still, it's a bummer.
@@Jet7Wave if that was the case then he should just say that hh. Because 'ignoring' implies there is a penalty to be ignored.
And yes, IF you actually get heavy (and that's a big if) and can feasibly shoot at 2 targets you actually wanna shoot at (again, a big if), then there's an argument for not guiding. I doubt that happens very often though unless you play on planet bowling ball and/or your opponent doesn't know what he's doing.
Yeah hunting pack is the fun one for me. I'm thinking of trying to make full kroot for sure but like half to 70% kroot with tau suits and even vespid squad for a empire faction.
The Firesight can bear those guiding enhancements but can’t use them. He’s not “leading a squad” which is present in both enhancements language.
The starscythe sounds like it would be good for dealing with large Ork blobs sitting on objectives. A list I’ve been working on includes a battlewagon loaded to the gills with the boys to then just drown a midfield objectives with bodies. If there’s a way to get +1 strength on those flamers then you’re going to be wounding ork boys on 3s and completely negating their armor saves. In my experience playing orkz the most important thing you can do is get them off the midfield because if the ork player knows what they’re doing their secondary game will be tight.
Breachers > Starscythe
Missile Broadsides and Riptides > Fireknife
i mean leaked codex points show riptides at 245, now we expect that points will change but for all we know...
Starscythes are much faster than Breachers, and have better range. To get maximum Breacher "dakka", you need both a Cadre Fireblade and a Devilfish to provide the mobility needed, and then you have at 200+ pts cost, where a Starscythe team is something like 135 or 140 pts.
So it depends on what they are needed for and how many points you want to spend on it.
Similar deal with Missile Broadsides: They are super slow and costly. If you bring 2, it is 180 pts, they have a movement of 5", which means you need to constantly advance them to get them into good positions. Basically Missile Broadsides only "work" in Montka.
Fireknifes have the mobility to get where they are needed, regardless of the detachment, and they get full rerolls to hit against a full strength unit, meaning they have massive alpha potential.
Riptides are indeed a contendor(to both the Fireknife, and, the missile Broadsides), as it has very similar damage options for a very similar price point. There are a few pros and cons that differentiate them though.
1) A Riptide is a larger model, so might be more difficult to hide.
2) A Riptide cant be joined by a character to increase the potential of the unit(for a cost). Giving a Commander the full rerolls to hit means fishing for either Lethals or Sustained is much easier(meaning any Tetras can spot for something else).
3) A Riptide is overall more durable(thanks to the 2+ sv and the shield generator).
@@fendelphiBreachers and Missile-sides re-roll wounds natively and both can auto-advance 6" with a Mont'ka stratagem.
@@Yuri77711 Breachers only reroll wounds when targeting something on an objective. And you have to get to that objective first. With movement 6 and weapon range 10", they need assistance to get where they are needed without getting destroyed on the way. They can easily get melted by flamer overwatch, as they are just T3, W1 infantry.
The Missile Broadsides does have reroll to wound(as they are twinlinked), but the thing you can do with Fireknife is fishing for Sustained Hits or Lethal Hits as you come out of deep strike/reinforcements. They can be less picky about who acts as the Observer for them because of this(meaning Stealth Suits and Pathfinders are great with them), and you can even let a character with one of the Spotter stratagems boost them up.
And if you want to, add a Commander to boost the damage output of the unit further. A Fireknife with an Enforcer Commander(255 pts total) has more or less the same firepower as 3 Missile Broadsides at 270 pts.
With Missile Broadsides, you need a Tetra to be in a position to spot for you if you want to fish for Sustained or Lethals, and you need to move around for the Missile Broadside to find good targets to engage.
Because even with Mont'ka allowing you to Advance and shoot, unless you spend the CP on a Stratagem(to auto-advance 6"), you are still looking at 6-11" movement per turn, while a Fireknife in the same situation has 11-16" movement and the option of Deep Strike.
Basically, you have more flexibility with the Crisis(across multiple detachments), while the Missile Broadside only really works in Mont'ka, and is a fair bit slower and a bit more expensive(but also a bit more durable).
@@fendelphiBreachers can re-roll wounds with a Mont'ka stratagem. They can also scout 6" with enhancement while in Devilfish then advance 18" with a stratagem then disembark 3". They can also disembark and move through cover up to 15"
Missile-sides fire 18 twin-linked shots + 12 regular missile shots from drones vs 20 shots of Fireknife + Commander.
Both can fish for lethal/sustained with tetras so it's not a deal breaker.
I think the Tidewall Shieldline could actually be pretty interesting in Mont'ka. Load it with Breachers, use the Scout 6" enhancement, and you've got a deadly little wall that can have a 26" threat range with the auto advance 6" strat. Devilfish are probably going to be the preferred delivery service due to sheer speed, but the Shieldline does have a couple extra wounds and a 5++.
shieldline has less wounds than a devilfish and can't guide units since it lacks the FtGG rule, while the 5++ is nice you are paying 10 extra points for it with a more awkward footprint and less utility beyond transport and mobile cover.
The Tidewalls are just so restrictive to use compared to a Devilfish. Even with the Invul, you would be left out in the open more often and you would have less wounds to soak up damage, unless you take the upgrade(for a total of 105 pts), which also makes the model much, much bigger(harder to move around terrain and impossible to hide).
T8 also means more weapons(like Autocannons) are more effective against them, often without giving you the benefit of the invul. And it has 0 OC, so it cant even take objectives, making it even less of a threat.
Basically, rather than helping you accomplish a battleplan, you have to make a battleplan with the focus to make them work. And even then, they are inefficient and inferior.
onyl viable flyer rn is the normal tigershark because it's costed nicely
Small error to note: Fire Warrior Suppressive Fire ability can only target Infantry units. Unless you're fighting Custodes there's not really any big infantry damage threats that are running out in the open looking to be tagged by a trash damage weapon. Teir 4.
it could be useful on terminators or aggressors maybe certain other units such as fire dragons or eradicators as well. i'd say tier 3 but probably don't want more than 2 units in an army. Edit: made a mix up with the -2 move stratagem changed to other units -1 to hit could be good against.
@@555tork how would -1 to hit deny objectives? It'd be more effective just to take an extra unit of breachers for slightly more points and actually inflict some damage onto the unit
@@zachnoland155 completely my bad getting it mixed up with the stratagem for -2 move.
The Ya'vara actually sees play so putting it so low seems like a miss its over costed but in the new retaliation Cadre It will for sure see some play.
I agree it’ll see play but at 210pts it’s in a rough spot, which is a shame because I haven’t met one tau player doesn’t love that suit
That flamer it has will be scary as hell. Unfortunately it has a 5+ invul save compared to the Riptide's 4+ save.
@@Moleman_G I do agree the price tag is what holds it back right now.
@@PhillipOnTakos yeah at 210 it for sure should have a 4+ or hell keep the 5 + and then give it the stim injectors for 6+ feel no painmaybe drop it to 200 and call it a day.
Question can you have pathfinders guide one friendly unit into two enemy units?
Target Uploaded: Once per turn, when using the Greater Good ability, you can select this unit to be an Observer unit for a second time. When doing so, you can change which enemy unit is this unit’s Spotted unit.
No, because you can't select anything to be guided again after it already has been
kinda nice that majority of the Tau model line is viable. unlike SMs with a bucketload of redundant and useless units (will never forgive them for butchering tac marines)
Will Forgeworld units actually get a points update as well with the new codex?
don't count on it. historically GW rarely do anything about FW units after their initial release.
@@Reqqles it we got updates for 10th followed by quite some point updates. Just curious if they revert some changes or add some. The riptide variants would be sold like gold if they would drop by at least 30-50 points 😅
@@Spacusstultus tbh that's conservative, the yvahra and rvarna should be cheaper than a riptide considering both are worse in every way. 160 pts tops for each, preferably closer to 150. as for any actual changes: I'm not holding my breath
They will eventually. But I wouldn't bet in anything good
As someone who's new to 40k and Tau I have a hard time telling if the Kroot Army Box is worth picking up based on this video. Except for the amazing looking models of course.
Rules and points change often. It's better to buy the models because you like the look of them rather than hope they stay playable forever.
Buy whatever seems cool and interesting. GW will constantly shift around stats, so as to satisfy their short-term greed. Chasing the meta is pointless, and just supports GW in their shady business methods.
be interested to know what your thoughts are on this list now that the codex points are out
Yay, I own all the tier 1 and 2 stuff! My army is relevant again!
When are the points coming out? I’m assuming the necron nerd will be with them?
It seems really premature to rank the Kroot stuff at all when we don't know what the points for them will be.
this is based on point in the codex but expect an update when it's released along with dataslate and MFM because 245 for a riptide is dumb.
it's the reason I did not go for kroot box. other than kroot carnivores and hounds and may be farstalker everything else need to be played in dedicated kroot detatchment to work.
I might be mis-remebering, but I thought I saw someone who had posted a picture of the unit costs from the codex, showing that the riptide took a massive hike in points to 245, despite having no changes to their datasheet.
Those points were written months ago, they'll be changed on release, same with most of the other codexes that have come out so far.
Spent the entirety of 9th hoping my favorite model (Y'Vahra) would be finally good. Guess I'm gonna continue to keep my Tau shelved for another edition while I play with my Custodes.
What do you do if Custodes gets nerfed even more? Do you shelf them, and pay out for one more army?
Given Strike Team’s ability only works on infantry, I’d probably put them tier 3 (or maybe 4)
Fairly cheap and durable, with decent firepower and range against fodder units, with the bonus of debuffing infantry for both their shooting and melee for a turn. Indiect fire option also means that applying the debuff on the best possible target is not too hard. Could potentially reduce the damage output of an infantry unit by 25-50%.
You do not get much better expendable fire support units in 40k than this.
I'm a noob, when will the actual points for the codex drop?
About a month or so?
I have a big question that I think needs answers. Alot of people say the kroot cannot be guided, but if you look at the new codex, and it may be different from 9th ed, but it states that as long as a unit has the keyword 'Tau Empire' they can work in pairs to guide and be guided. Please can you address this?!
also I believe the strike team is 100 points in the new codex?
The Strike Team only gives -1 to hit when targeting infantry.
I will never understand why GW can't just balance fortifications instead of making them terrible so nobody uses them :(
Not enough profit.
@@arthurbrugge2457 FYI: The whole 'GW Makes rules = profit' thing has been disproved rather recently by the Deathwing Knights.
@@user-hf6vf5gc5n So one doubtful situation/release disproves GW's tendency to milk their customers in shady ways? Come on, man!🙃
@@arthurbrugge2457 There are other examples, like the space marine combat patrol, but that was the first one that popped to mind.
You are one of thousands that cares about this 😂
I have got a question: for a tournament, wich points are the right one, to calculate for the Army List? Some points in the Video Are from the table at the end of the Tau Codex ( i got already the new one, Some Units Are really expensive) and Some from the munitorum online?
None of them are correct yet
A Strike Team in tier 2???
Firesight Marksmen can't use the guiding buff enchancements as it's got have to be leading a unit to give out the buff.
You put broadsides in tier 1 which I completely agree with, especially as Mont'ka auto advance 6" and giving out assault can solve some of their mobility issues. However I think with the nerf to Fireknifes the Missilesides variant should also pop into tier 1 for general anti infantry particularly against marines. If Mont'ka tags a enemy unit with rerolls (either tetra or the stratagem) then they can be reroll to hit and to wound on all 30 shots from a unit of 3.
Ah thanks for the correction there! And yes I did dither a bit between T1 and T2 for them, that was part of the reason for upping the ranking though :)
I still think Broadsides are overall too slow and pricy for what they bring(in terms of being top tier). Not that they weak, because they do hit hard(with their Heavy Rail Rifles), but if something wants to avoid them, they cant really hunt it down, and if they get hunted themselves, they cant really get away. T6 is not exactly hard to wound either. A mix of Plasma and Bolter-grade weaponry can quickly pick off a model or two.
And if a target does stay out in the open, you need at least 2 models(180 pts) to have a decent chance of dealing significant damage to it.
In Mont'ka, they can work ok, due to the added mobility from Assault+Advance(although it will require them to take a gun drone, so that they are eligible to shoot after advancing, and then when guided, get the assault keyword for the other weapons).
Similar deal with the Missile Broadside. It works ok in Mont'ka due to the mobility it gives, but to compete with the Fireknife, you have to spend far more resources(a Tetra spotter and/or a Stratagem), and you will still not be as mobile. A bit more durable though, but you are also paying a bit extra.
@@fendelphi Pre codex I used just a unit of 2 rail broadsides for the reason you mentioned. In Mont'ka I'm going to add in 3 Missilesides with 5 Missile drones & 1 gun drone so they can take advantage of advancing. With the stratagem 11" isn't bad movement. For the other detachments I will probably take a Coldstar and a unit of Starscythe instead for the mobility issues you mentioned.
With CIBs gone I think the Missilesides do well for MEQ killing compared to the competition.
Tau are perfect for a build list that maximizes eggs and bunny ears for Easter painting. Pretty sure I can get some stealth suits on the mantle without the wife noticing.
God-Tier content, as always!
I actually beg you please do GSC
Well, here it is - czcams.com/video/XwYKBh-gvNg/video.html&ab_channel=AuspexTactics
Nothing significant has changed internally for them since then aside from purestrains going down a little in cost.
Auspex clapped back so hard and fast the Four-Armed Emperor is jealous
@@auspextacticsmeant more GSC based vids
Seems like a waste when we dont have the codex points for real
We'll see! I'm surprised how little points changed meaningfully for most of the other codex releases so far. if they do absolutely upend the faction I'll likely come back to revisit this one a little sooner down the line though.
Yeah…totally. 😅 I want this video redone with the points updates pls 🙃
+/- 5 or 10 points won't change much. Maybe you cut one spotter after your whole list goes up, or maybe you get one more. Nothing is going to change by 30%+, which is what it would take to actually change what you take.
Do we know when the points will drop ?
@@baciu14 dark angels waited 7 weeks from preorder drop, so if it's the same about 5.5 more weeks
XV88 Broadside my man
Best hint: buy 10 expensive models, much stronger than 10 cheap models.
Riptide 165 points?
F I F T H !!!
…possibly?
Piranhas just aren't worth the points they give up on bring it down for being a nuisance unit. At this point making half the codex vehicle exists just to nerf us both in terms of terrain and secondaries
Is allergy season treating you well? You sound a bit phlegmy this past little while. I hope you're doing alright!
Add a comment...🎉
Manta?
Some notes on some t1 placements.
-Piranhas aren't really t1. They are a good (if not excellent) datasheet, but are being held back by Bring it Down and fixed objectives (rings true for a lot of the codex). As long as Crisis are Vehicles this will be a problem (and how Bring it Down skews certain faction's unit picks)
-Sky Rays were behind Hammerheads in anti tank pretty substantially. Hammerheads had a tendency to be swingy against invuln save units however. The twin-linked rule probably makes them better overall, but i don't quite think they are t1 now.
-Broadsides can absolutely use Missile Pods now, especially in Mont'ka. Their weakness was range and ap and Mont'ka does help with both due to the advance and shoot and the +1 ap strat.
Why release this before points are out? Several Armies got ultra nerfed by their codex, why put in all this work on a tier list when they're right around the corner :/
Krooot!!!!
Second
This must be an internal balance list because Tau have no competitive edge left at all
Thanks for the updates. Crisis suits still suck 👍
firstt
Kroot should be their own faction... they really ruin the T'au
Tau really ruin the Kroot
i honestly love the contrast of the high tech suits and the tribal chompy boi's. its also nice to have at least some average options for melee
They’ve been part of the identity of the faction from the start, the whole point is to make use of the different skills of different races to shore up each other’s weaknesses.
Until we have point cost this list is a west of time.
You should make your background black with white text because I'm burning out my retinas watching your videos to much.