War West Virginia: Most Southern Town in West Virginia
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2022
- War West Virginia is the most southern town in West Virginia's rugged coal country in the billion dollar coalfield of McDowell County. In this episdoe I explore War and one of the settings for the award winning Hollywood film October Sky.
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#Appalachia #WestVirginia #coal
Song Playlist:
Crate Digging by Tigerblood Jewel
Exploration Plundering by Martin Klem
Lackawanna Trail by Roy Williams
Let's Have Another Round by Will Harrison
On The Trail by Tigerblood Jewel - Zábava
Love hearing from everyone in the comments! where should we go next?
The story of Tom Dooley, Theres a big mural in downtown Mt City, TN of where they captured him and I have a good friend that lives in the house where he was captured at. Its down Hwy 67 in a community called Pandora. You actually showed the building in the Copperhead Road episode, the Muse Hardware Store. Love this series of videos being that i grew up in the NC side of these mountains
I would really like to see the history of Chief Logan. Tell me some good history.
Me being a Pa boy love going to Virginia and West Virginia .some of our roots are from those ares .. people are more Hospitality and know how to make a person be human .
@@budeebro1 I'll be making my way to Western NC for this series!
@@Yankw-vj9ds I live in Pa now and am trying so hard to find me a place back home in Wv. That will always be #HOME
Im from Bluefield but i worked all over McDowell County for 30 years beginning early 1970's .
Have many memories of the wonderful, kind people who helped me become a success in life.
❤
Also, *people live there!* With the housing crisis showing no signs of abating anytime soon, owning your own house is GOLD. I live in a small, hick town in Maine. Every night when I lay down to sleep, I think about all those Americans going without shelter. My house ain't much, but there's a roof over my head, running water, and a bed for my big fat head!
I lived in war went to war jr then big creek high school. I have so many memories from wv. Whole family was coal miners dad,grand dad, uncles. I graduated in 1985. Coal mines was not going well then moved to va became a brickmason. I go back there 4 or 5 times a year. I am proud to be from wv it will always be my home in my heart. When people ask what do you do when there? I tell them the hillbilly hustle. If you know, you know!
As a resident of War, let me tell you first hand; we're all very kind individuals who is heavily divided by the mountains so we have our own culture, and festivals every fall. If you decide to visit, we hope you visit and explore the history and hang out with the residents.
Festivals sound interesting!
I am actually going up there in a few days because I am considering moving there. I have a few questions, but above all else, I’m an atheist. That’s my biggest fear in moving back to Appalachia. My grandparents and father died this year though and they are the reason I moved back to Winston-Salem. I am so scared.
Nobody gives a shit if you are an atheist. Stop being over dramatic!!!
I grew up there. Odds are I probably know you or some of your people. I worked for McDowell County water company every summer for a few years when school was out in the 80s
Even though I'm from outback Australia your country side is so amazing and refreshing. I'm constantly watching the type of videos. Would love to visit these type of areas and towns one year.
My dad was born in War in 1922. His dad my grandfather was killed in a mine accident when dad was 7 months old. He is buried in Cove cemetery.
My great-great-grandparents are buried there at cove cemetery as well!
Cass, WV. The fully restored company town from the logging days.
I drove delivery trucks for Coca Cola, National Linen, and Alsco Linen for 44 years. When I went to work for Coke in the late 70s it took 4-5 hours just to deliver in the town of War. Not to mention all the little communities around it. And still a lot to do there in the late 80s when I started for National Linen. I eventually ended up with just one account left there. The famous Coffee Shop! But the company decided it wasn't financially smart to drive to War for the one stop. I sure miss those days and the wonderful people I knew! Great video. Thanks!
Appalachia is an excellent and unique. The old america is still there.
I went to War several times in the early 1980''s. It was really hoppin' back then and I could tune pianos in the area. I walked all over town and knocked on doors to buy records. I actually traded a piano tuning for a shower in somebody's house. The lady owner was at work but she left the door unlocked. I tuned the piano and got a shower and I never did meet her. I miss those days. I visited War about 10 years ago and it looked pretty rough so I'm glad to see that it's coming back some. I still live on the road too.
My family is from War. My grandmother ran the liberty hotel and cafe that used to be beside that Grant's supermarket. Sadly it burnt not long after her passing. I still have a brother that lives there on Beach hill and I have the fondest memories of spending summers at my grandmother's place,fishing with my brother,helping with their garden,feeding their coal stove. It was a beautiful time in my life when things were unobstructed and simple. The people their are wonderful and very kind. Thanks for sharing this with the world.
Love hearing about the memories! Would also like to see any pictures you might have of the old hotel & cafe!
@@MountainRoots I'm sorry,I dont have any. My grandmother passed in 2000 and had many pictures of her place and the town. My sister opened a bluegrass hall in the cafe and had her pictures blown up and hung on the wall. Everything was still in the place when it burnt. McDowell county itself has a really nice website with a photo archive from 1900 to present.
By any chance was your grandmother Wanda Click?
@@ricklove8588 no,Donna Christian . The Click's building was next to hers though.
@@ciphercode2298 gotcha. If you don't mind was she related to Havin and I went to school and played baseball with Mathew. Different teams he played for war I played for Berwind. I heard he had passed and I hated to hear that they were all good people
Visited War in 73 or 74. One of my roommates, Betsy, got a teaching position there. I remember that the only place she could find a room was at the miners’ boarding house. She was surprised that part of her job was to prepare part of the school lunch each day.
was born in 1939 and grew up about 10 miles from War in Bishop, Va/WVa. ,,, now age 83 living in North Carolina.
Did you go to Big Creek? If so, did you know Kay Barnette from Bartley?
bishop va@@atldaddybear
some homes in bishop were on the state/line, you coould choose to vote/school , etc .
in those days of sagaration, white school/black school. etc.
Drove through there today and it’s very historical so much so that it hasn’t changed since 1980 it looks. What a sad and tragic looking area, needs to get gentrified because the land is gorgeous
What make you want to drive through the center of town?
@@klwthe3rd I go on joy rides and end up in random places
I spent several weeks in War with Southern Baptist Disaster Relief helping with the clean-up and rebuild. The folks we met were very appreciative and friendly. Would love to visit under better circumstances.
My favorite teacher - Miss Frances Jeffries - taught 5th Grade; she was from War, WV. I often wonder what become of her, although I knew she married a few years after I was her student.
Hey man! I honestly don't remember how I found your channel, but I love your content about small towns in West Virginia. I don't know what it is about them but I love their old buildings and their little Downtowns. It must be some sort of fetish of mine hahaha, or something.
Keep it up it's great, greetings from Argentina :)
I hope it is understood, my English is not the best.
Well I'm glad you found it and are enjoying the episodes. Thanks for watching!
Found your channel by accident. I lived in War (actually worked there) in the mid 80's for about 7 years. I was a speech therapist at War elem and Jr, but I worked all over McDowell county serving kids in schools with no services. I learned so much and it was a great experience I will never forget. Keep up the good work. Love the channel. Have you gone to keystone?
I have subscribed and also found a Facebook short clip when you were in cucumber creek looking for cucumber. Cucumber creek is actually number 8 holler. Follow it all the way out to the post office and take a right. Cucumber is less than a mile
My mom grew up in New Hall, McDowell County. When we'd visited we'd drive into War. They were bustling them.
NewHall is barely on the map. It's so tiny. Hillbilly grocery store is all that's there i think.
My mother was born in War in 1921 and she always thought it no longer existed.
I'm from south Texas and a few years ago found a major portion of my family that we had been searching for a long time. Turns out that my family has a long history going back many years in McDowell. I visited there a few years ago. I'm really enjoying your videos on southern West Virginia.
I hope you do a video on Bramwell!
Big Creek High was my High School and my Grandfather Berlin Smith laid bricks for a dollar a day!
Loved this one!!! I love hearing about all of the history from these small towns. Can’t wait for the next ride along!
😊
Turn those buckets of hope right-side-up and let optimism pour in!
It's how I found it....but I agree with you!
My dad told me that when I was a baby I went to War!
I was confused, He laughed then Said War West Virginia. He was Robert "jughead" Lee Muncy from Coalwood McDowell Co.
mcdowell county has a sister county in north carolina they have ties from the rail road moving that coal through those mountains same deep roots you can learn about its history at the mountain gateway museum in old fort nc you want roots that areas are deep from thr fort the towns named for to the counties gold rush ok i could go on an on but this place fits an you ask for ideas lol
Indeed I did, and thank you!
Wow this was such an informative video on the City of War. I agree that it is becoming more and more important to record the history of small towns like War. We must remember where we came from and those people that help make today possible.
Absolutely!
I like watching these videos of Appalachia. My grandparents were born and raised in west Virginia, so ilike going back in time.
You should come and to a piece of history on Co-Operative, Kentucky. It was once a very thriving Coal Camp owed and Operated by Justic S Stearns. Not much here anymore but our little grocery store,witched was build in 1930 by father in law. My sister and I have reopened the old store in memory of the Kidd family. It is like stepping back in time to era when times were simply and people worked hard and played even harder.
Good post. And a good series. I'm glad you have the gas money. (:^D
Those small mountains are bigger than the hills in S. Central TN where I live: @ 700' and under. I bet there are some stories of those creeks overflowing their banks from time to time. Living in a hollow where water has only one way out my front yard looked like the TN River one time. The water pushed the boulders out of the way and moved my culvert pipe a hundred yards. Quite a mess to clean up. Needed a backhoe.
Don't know about growing food there. Here, where I live it is said that "the earth grows more rocks than food." Some fields are better than others.
I also worked around War. Penn Line installed and repaired guardrail all over WV. There used to be an old store in the middle of the town. Had been in the family for years. Was a general store , pharmacy ,old soda fountain . We would work around the town and go there for lunch. Eat a few buildings down from the store . Good food . I would order hurry up and walk to the store. I loved the place . Old wood floors , beautiful wood shelves ,tin ceiling original,old soda fountain . Bought a painting of a barn in snow on slate there by someone local . Had to get that home without breaking it . We travel with trucks ,a pickup and had a van at the time .
Love old stores like that! We just ate at one very similar to what you described in Mt Airy.
Beautiful area. One could live the simple life up in those green mountains and buffer oneself from the progressive craziness of the cities.
Just so you’re aware: not having an “us vs them” attitude really helps make life more enjoyable.
@@BlownMacTruck Just so you are aware: who gives a shit.
I went through a lot of WV when I was a truck driver. Never did get to go through War. While stopped at the Rest Area at Beckley, I climbed up the stairs to Tamarack. I bought a CD of Carl Rutherford. Ended up getting all I could find of his music. The one I bought first had Little Annie on it; maybe the saddest song I ever heerd, but also one of the purtiest! Chris Sutton sings a song in memory of Carl, and it touches me the way he sings from his heart and soul:
czcams.com/video/jWo_jYhPPlI/video.html
Great presentation. Your voice adds to ths quality of the video. Bravo and keep up the good work!
LOVE THIS! it has changed so much since i have left and so many things still there. THANK YOU for lifting my spirits.
The ideal small town will have at least 2 taverns to every church. I saw lots of churches but not a single watering hole.
One of your final statements, the one about "so much of Appalachia is fading" tugs at me. I realize that this is the primary reason I find meaning in your videos. Every school I've ever attended has become something else. I know too well the feelings of loss and emptiness, as though a part of me and my life never existed, when such a thing happens. Thanks for sharing these!
Agree, our town of Salisbury MD is going to tear down one of the oldest Beautiful homes ever a very rich man yrs ago built for his family, LOOKS LIKE A CASTLE BEEN RENOVATED SEVERAL TIMES, LOTS OF MONEY, NOW THEY WANT TO BUILD CLIENT TICS AND OFFICES THERE, HOTEL ESTER, PLEASE LOOK IT UP ITS A GRAND OLD HOTEL(WAS, THEN A APARTMENT HOUSE) HATE THEY ARE TEARING IT DOWN, LEAVE IT TO MONEY HUNGRY PEOPLE 😢😢😮
Excellent presentation. Last summer we spent 2 weeks vacation in West Virginia and stayed at an AirBnB near Snowshoe. We explored parts of the Monogohela National Forest in Pocahontas County. We also enjoyed the WV State Fair in Lewisburg. Such a beautiful state.
Beautiful country around Monongahela! Took my oldest son on an overlanding trip in that area last year- from Canaan Loop to Dolly Sods, Seneca Rocks- just amazing country!
@@MountainRoots…We saw a lot in 2 weeks, but, so much we didn’t see. Such great history.
I lived in War in the late 70's on Beach Hill. Use to be a little restaurant called the Hole in Wall where my father in law would always want to go eat at.
What is Beach hill?
I played basketball for the Iaeger Cubs in that high school..Big Creek was always loaded with talent and like the football team, the basketballers were tough as hell...
Your memory’s not failing you. There are abundant trees and grassy areas that have completely changed the background you remember. Excellent video. Thanks for doing all you do to bring these beautiful places to our laptops and iPhones.
I am a coal mining daughter and granddaughter of West Virginia
Homeschool family in West Virginia, here. My 8th grader is doing West Virginia studies this year. These videos on these towns in WV have been fantastic!!! Thank you!
Oh great, so glad to hear it! Thanks for watching 😊
I like what you do.
You’re one of several CZcamsrs that focus on Appalachia and you do it with authority.
You approach your craft as a Filmmaker such that you are a force behind the story and not the leading player in the content. You’re intrinsic to the story yet in an intelligently subtle approach.
Ken Burns is an amazing story teller
You are a story teller as well.
Wow, thank you so much! That's very, humbling.
@@MountainRoots Aww Shucks 😢 💖
As I’ve stated before, WV history is fascinating especially the hardships of the miners. Have you done anything around the Hawks Nest Tunnel disaster? I live close to Dayton, Oh but have made many visits to WV, Mainly Fayetteville and the New River since 1980. I made probably 200+ trips down the Gorge. Love the New River.
I have not, something to look into?
These are the folks that will survive when all of the "city folk" that look down their noses at them will starve. And that time may not be too far in the future.
Not likely, 40% of the economy there is government welfare checks and a substantial part of the population will get deathly ill without their opiates. Also McDowell County has the worst health statistics highest obesity etc in the whole state of West Virginia, which is an extremely healthy state.
I can see why it would feel good to pretend like these people are self sufficient bad asses but the truth is that these people would starve without the food stamps and other government benefits they receive even during the very best of times. Just because they now vote for politicians that are ideologically opposed to those benefits doesn't mean that they don't collect them at higher rates than just about anybody else. Their poverty and lack of education makes them especially vulnerable to the lies and disinformation that characterize modern American politics.
You are EXACTLY right! I live just a few miles from War. Close to Welch. In a holler where my Dad was born in 1933. The youngest of 16! His mother was born here in 1894. I hunt, have a big garden, and can everything! They'll be hard pressed to starve us! I even save my own seed. A country boy will survive!
Sigh. You do know that most “city folk” don’t actually look down people in rural areas, right? That plenty of them have roots in small towns and that most tax dollars flow from urban areas out to the more country side of things?
See a lot of urban folk have lots of diverse experiences, and learn to appreciate all walks of life. Maybe if you expanded your own bubble a bit you’d see that instead of trying to draw some weird and arbitrary line between groups of people.
Form NYC here and living here and not looking down on anyone. I’m watching because I want to learn of small towns and places in which people live a kind of life I have never known.
I rode through there a few years ago, and it seems to be doing "better" than a lot of the surrounding towns including welch. I wonder if the Big Owl they had up at the old Big Creek High School is somewhere safe in storage? The library there literally had a dog lying right in the middle as you entered it. Went to look up some yearbooks but sad to say, one of the locals said a lot of them were destroyed in a fire many years ago, thus only a few exist.
*Herbert from family guy's voice* "Minor City!!!!!!!"
Very cool to hear about this town and how one of the Rocket Boys went to the school there. It would have been cool to see the school if they could have preserved it. Still awesome history nonetheless. You should start meeting up with locals in some of your videos and doing tag alongs, where they show you what they do for fun in these areas, check out their hobbies, go to festivals, etc. Just a little more diving into how people live and their cultures. That would be neat to see! 😃
I have a picture of Big Creek High School!!
Love these videos. My roots are in Princeton, both my grandmothers were born in beckley. West by God! 🤟
My sister lived in Princeton and died there over 25 years ago. Her husband a well known OBGYN passed a year after she did. They had 3 boys.
@@mikedineen7857 Was your sister married to Dr. John Markell?
I was born in Princeton as was my father, and my grandfather was mayor in the early 1980's.
Thank you for posting. We are friendly folks around here. We have a beautiful area to live in. And we love our mountain home! ❤
Love your work.
Great job.keep them coming.
Thanks, planning on it! 😁
You should radio and audible books. I just love your voice.
Thank you!
Awesome history. I really enjoyed this video. The place has changed from my days passing through there. Great job! Keep the stories coming!
Loved this!! WV native here and was raised in Logan County. My parents family is from Man, WV. Both of those places have some amazing history! Blair Mountain is also full of history. One of my other favorites is Cass, WV. Cass and Durbin is rooted in train history and still has both authentic steam and coal trains you can ride through the mountains.
Great work! Beautiful country! I’ve been all throughout there and can attest to the genuine friendliness of everyone. Word of Warning: As an old 3rd generation Floridian, be very cautious about letting too much of the local economy rely on tourist (ATV or otherwise) developers. They’ll take over and slowly dilute and gentrify your culture. Forever. Follow the money. Back to the wall.
Great Job! I love how you incorporate drone footage in many of your videos. It really adds a totally different perspective of things on the ground.
Another interesting video. Noticed several churches in this small town of War. Exploring these almost forgotten places with your help is far more interesting than overcrowded NY, LA etc which are a dime a dozen. Thank you again🤗
Cool I’m going there in august
All my family on my mother’s side were from McDowell. Coal miners in Bartley, Caretta, Coalwood, and Welch. They mostly lived in English. My mom and her siblings all went to Big Creek in the late 50s, early 60s. I have not been there for many years and they have all since passed away. I remember going to the “big town” of War with grandparents. I’m very familiar with the section between War and Bradshaw. Maybe you could do a drive through of the area?
Sounds like a nice place to visit. Put it on my bucket list.
another great video!! thanks for taking us along for the ride
Another great story
My husband was from War, West, VA, he had 11brothers,1sister,moved family here to Salisbury MD to find work, only had strip and cold mining in War, TOOK HIM YRS TO GET ME TO GO SEE WAR, WHEN I DID I DIDN'T TO LEAVE , Welsh COUNTRY, WEST VA, BEAUTIFUL PLACE, EVEN PICKED OUT MY HOUSE BUT HUSBAND WAS ON KIDNEY DIALYSIS IN SALISBURY 3DAYS WK. OUT MY HOUSE OUT MY HOUSE,
Looks pretty nice.
I think most Americans are ignorant to the fact that 50% of this country isn't poverty maybe more and the hardest it areas are your coal towns.
Thank you for shedding light on a problem that isn't often talked about as we send billions of dollars to the Ukraine.
These are good people of limited means, they've been here for generations and don't know of any other way.
When you take away people's ability to be financially independent, healthcare, jobs that's how you create drug abuse and alcoholism.
You either move away and try to make a better life for yourself or you stay here and find a way to survive.
I think it's disgusting and I think it's shameful.
You showed the better parts of this area not all the dilapidated houses I believe this county doesn't even have a Walmart anymore because of theft.
Breaks my heart.
I grew up in Berwind graduated from Berwind Junior in 1958. You stated you played vs “the Big Creek Owls”, where did you go to high school? Love your videos..
Really enjoying your videos. Hope you keep it up and head North. Should do a whole road trip sweeties.
Awesome video! War is a beautiful part of WV. I was born and raised in Dunbar which is close to Charleston.
Please consider a series on Appalachian folk medicine
I'm glad you know how to pronounce Appalachia.
It's the regional dialect 😁
My family comes from McDowell county
Beautiful
I randomly thought of War and checked CZcams for videos just now. When I was in high school I went on a church mission to war and helped rebuild some homes. I have extremely fond memories of that trip. The family (who’s name I can’t remember but wish I could) were so kind. They didn’t have much but I remember they would have given the shirt off their back if you needed it. They had a little girl who was my shadow while I was there. We were buddies and the last day there they went out of their way to bake me a cake because she wanted me to have cake with her before I left. Sadly the last day there I didn’t get to return to their home to say goodbye. 22 years later thinking of that still makes me sad and I wonder where she and her family are now. Another bit of interesting info is while we were there we actually stayed in the school (a school). It wasn’t in use and the trade off was we could stay there if we helped clean it up. Thank you for making this video. I may not be from War and I may have only been there a few weeks but I’ll never forget it or the people that were there.
What year do you think you were there??? You probably stated at the old Big Creek high school before it was destroyed.
Enjoyed the video! Always a pleasure to watch and learn about these beautiful areas. God bless you and your family. ❤🇺🇸
Thanks so much, really glad you're enjoying the series! 😊
Thanks!
For some reason your donation was filtered out to where I couldn't see it until now, but I wanted to personally thank you for it
This is a great series. Keep up the great work! Although I'm raised in Logan county in the chapmanville school district and went to school at big creek elementary school (not the same big creek) I'm still learning from what you are showing, the rich and never ending History of southern West Virginia ! Thank you again and Please keep putting out these great videos..
Appreciate that feedback and so happy you're enjoying the episodes!
I'm from Logan County aswell, at Mudfork
@@hunterpro9925 my heart will always be there.
Do the area where June Carter's family came from. Supposedly it was the birthplace of country music? Southern Virginia somewhere.
I've been all over the little town of War......where ever powerlines run.....I cleared all the right of ways ( chainsaws,gas can,ropes,climbing gear) God's County! 😁
Did you work for the power company?
for YTube algo. Keep up the excellent work.
hey can you do one of around Owsley County please? i'd kinda like to learn more about it, its kind of like Mcdowell County btw, especially since i'm from outside of DC in Maryland here, also I read from 1980-2014 the rate of death from cancer rose by 45.6% there which is the highest in the country of any other county
That's an astonishing rate increase! 😳
I also went to this HS. Raised in Berwind and Newhall. Mom was from Baptist Valley and Bandy area. I know that entire area like the back of my hand. Beewind once had one of the largest bricket mines. I remember the old tipple from my childhood and the old Berwind company store behind the post office. It's gone now but the old bank lodge is still there. The old Berwind school was also torn down. I went to that school for 8 years. Walked to school I just lived across the bridge at CL Youngs house. Ever need any information on a drive through those areas I'll be more than happy to help
Thanks so much, appreciate your offer!
For someone that wants to visit there to maybe relocate, can you recommended anyone that lives in those parts that would be able to provide an in depth tour of the area? Willing to pay for their time and knowledge such as your own.
@@klwthe3rd absolutely I still have family there
You definitely need to go see Marlinton wv
Have you ever done an episode on Berkeley Springs WV?
Not yet, should I?
I wanna check it out when I go to WV
My mother was born in War
Could you do a video on Newell, WV? It is the most northern city in WV. Great little small town.
I'll look into it. Thx for the suggestion!
Lots of history there. Homer Laughlin China company is there. They have a horse race track and a bridge that was built in 1905 that is still traveled every day. I grew up there. They even had a rock concert there in the 70’s. 2020 census 1,274.
If you're ever back in Buchanan County you should do a Hurley video.
Planning on it 👍
Lived in War as a young child and returned many summers while visiting my Grandparents in Berwind. Anyone know when the City Lunch closed? The best hotdogs I've ever eaten. Would love to know the chili recipe.
Was that the name of a local restaurant? the City Lunch?
@@klwthe3rd Yes a very small hole in the wall kind of place.
Hum dang
👍👍👍👍
Ever check out Pine run ?🌵❤️
Don't believe I have.
@@MountainRoots near Morgantown..seen something real big, and red colored early, one morning 🌵❤️
My uncle died in the Pocahontas mines back in 1929. Wish I knew where he’s buried. Anybody know where they buried miners back in the day? We checked out the cemetery near there but no luck
Is it true that there was an Italian settlement near War back in the 50's. Does anyone know?
Hi… I appreciate your videos. I am hoping to start a children’s nonprofit in McDowell county, WV. Would you be able to reach out to me, I need some help from a local to guide me.
Send me an email mountainrootsmail@gmail.com
@@MountainRootsI did…via your email. Thanks
War is not the most southern city in WV. That would be Bluefield, but by just a fraction.
Someone should let them know then 😉
Maybe there's a difference in classification between a town and city? I wondered why they always said it was the southern most city knowing there was bluefield.
Ya'll need to look at a map. War is not the most southern city in WV on a map. Bluefield is below War
It's on their town sign 😉
whats it like buying a home in west virginia
Depends where your at. In the old coal fields you can buy a home for 25k. Problem is you have no access to clean water or sewage treatment
Most places have town water.
Looking for a guy ,,,, Jim Adair,,,, Big guy====== Red hair,,,,, was in Viet-nam 1970-71
it would be simple to find people if ,,, you,,,, and and everyone used their name.