The Parting of the Ways: When Did the New Religion of Christianity Begin?
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2022
- You can explore this complex topic further through my book, Paul and Jesus (www.amazon.com/Paul-Jesus-Apo..., as well as the video lecture on this channel titled "Who is a Jew? Paul's Transformation of Jewish Identity." • Who is a Jew? Paul's T...
This lecture was part a Biblical Archaeology Society seminar, publishers of the premiere archaeology magazine, Biblical Archaeology Review. It is used with permission.
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Notes:
One of the enduring questions historians of early Christianity struggle with is the issue of when we can properly speak of the “new religion” of Christianity, as contrasted with a variety of forms of Judaism in the decades following the death of Jesus the Jew. The title of Paula Fredriksen’s book, When Christians Were Jews brilliantly sums up the question in four words! Most of us know that what I often call the John the Baptizer/Jesus/James brother of Jesus movement begins as a thoroughly Jewish movement within late 2nd Temple Judaism-with all its variety in the homeland and the Diaspora. So when the the change come-so that one might begin to think of the subsequent followers of Jesus as having left their “Judaism” behind.
This question is of course related to another complex conundrum-Who is a Jew?-that was as complex in definition in the ancient world as it is today.
It has become quite fashionable in New Testament studies today to hold that Paul, in proclaiming “his gospel” to the Gentile world, which he claims he received directly through a revelation of Jesus Christ, does not represent any kind of departure from the diverse forms of “Judaisms” in the late 2nd Temple period.
I am convinced otherwise. I know it is quite out of fashion, but I am convinced that Paul’s message, at its core, represented a “new religion” that can properly be called “Christianity,” every bit as distinct in faith and practice from Judaism/s as the Ramban was from Pablo Christiani in their Barcelona debate before King James I of Aragon in 1263, often referred to after Hyam Maccoby’s play and book, and resulting film, The Disputation. Accordingly, Paul can properly be called the “founder” of the Christian faith as it emerged in the second century CE. This is not a “new” view of course, but one that has been around since the dawn of scientific studies of the New Testament in the early 19th century. However, it has been sharply opposed and refuted by many in my field of Christian Origins.
I present my case in my book, Paul and Jesus, and yes, I do indeed seek to resurrect the position of F. C. Baur regarding the fundamental break between Paul and the Jewish movement we can barely recover represented by the Jerusalem apostles and James the brother of Jesus. In this video I offer some of my emerging thoughts on the topic as I was working on that book:
I love how far back you go to build the lesson. So glad I found your channel. Thanks!
Dr. Tabor, that was a fantastic video, and I greatly appreciate the very fair way you treated not just Paul but the entire concept of "who is a Jew", which as you pointed out is a very complex problem and not easily solved.
Paul describes the "faith of Abraham" as being an entry point, which in other New Testament letters is linked to "works of righteousness"--if you have true faith, you will do the works of righteousness.
The relationship between faith and works is interesting, because acts of righteousness do not require that one believe in a deity or belong to a religion.
However, faith implies a belief in something, or someone.
It is this "faith IN..." that can create divisions and us-vs-them mentalities, while a focus on having a pure heart can be embraced by everyone.
Thank you so much for posting this video, I was so disappointed when it ended since it seemed like there was more!
It can also tie into the controversy of keeping slaves ....how one can be of the seed of faith of Abraham which means the slave laws would apply to those people as well..
@@matrixlone not sure what you mean, please explain. Do you mean that since Abraham owned slaves that the seed of Abraham are considered slave owners as well?
Its not actually a complex problem at all. The only reason it is "complex" is because most people are ignorant and many people misuse terms and mix things up so much so that nobody can understand and have a clear and proper definition for anything.
If you forget about the term "Jevv" and instead look at 2 much more well defined things instead - who is ethnically Hebrew-Canaanite (the Israelites were a sub-group of that ethnos, which icluded other groups such as the Moabites, Amonites, Edomites), and who is religiously Jevvish? (and of course if you really want to be accurate, you need to break Jevvish down to which sect of Judaism, because in the 2nd temple period you had plenty. Today you have mostly various Phariseeic-Rabbinic sects but also Qaraites as well).
Also, Tabor demonstrated alot of ignorance regarding ethnicity and genetics in this talk. Woody Allen and most "Ashkenaz Jevvs" in general are ethnically alot closer to Jevvs from 2000 years ago than he might think due to his ignorance on the topic. Genetic studies proved this many times. You can also just take a look at the Samaritan Priests who are very much ethnically Israelites and see with your own eyes.
And regarding Jevvs from Pan-Arabaist countries (notice I don't use the nonsensical terminology "Arab countries"), such as Sephardic and Mizrahi Jevvs, they are also proven to be ethnically Hebrew-Canaanite with diaspora admixture.
Great subject! But I think your presentation is compromised by the implicit assumption that Judaism is a fixed pole in its relationship with the emerging Christian movement. Especially after the destruction of the temple, Judaism was forced to undergo a major reconceptualization of itself, away from a temple / sacrifice / priesthood based religion with a diverse array of schools of thought and into what became rabbinic Judaism. *Both* poles were moving, Judaism *and* Christianity; and it seems a fair question to ask in what ways Judaism's revised understanding of itself reflects a reaction to the Christian movement.
Christianity is not a new religion. It is the continuation of Biblical Judaism which is not the same as rabbinic Judaism which was made by the rabbis in the first century to keep the Jewish people from knowing their Messiah Yeshua.
Golan Brochi, from One 4 Israel ministry has great videos on this.
@@crisseven1764 nope
Also to note, Jesus until he was crucified explicitly mentioned he came for Jews, but post resurrection as 'narrated' by the Gospels(could be made up) extended the salvation to entire world!!!
@@schnellster1 Joshua the christ will still come back for the Jewish people
@@cyrilsneer5957 as per Jesus it was supposed to happen before some of the eye witness at Jesus time would die....later apostles still believed it would happen, and later it was picked up by Muhammad..about the judgement day
Nice opening music, St. John Passion I believe it was. Fitting for your talks haha
A good part of this discussion and misunderstanding comes from the Church selling their followers this fantasy of one "Bible" that is composed of both the "Old" testament and the "New" testament as one unit and that supposedly the "old" is now useless. That, coupled with the utter ignorance of Judaism in the Christian community, which makes them unable to recognize all the clear signs of Jesus' Judaism
If one beliefs in YHVH, one should not forget, that YHVH is not subject to time, past, present or future, He Is , is His name, resulting to me that He is continuealy maintaining His Creation. HE is the very moment we are living in wright now.
This view matches facts as His unchangeable character, seeing all, knowing all, and standards to enter in His Kingdom.
Therefore no change in His creation is even possible, we the people make the changes, by our beliefs or so called understanding.
YHVH said, because of My Name I .......
Mozes understood this as he reminded Him on the Mountain while pleaing for His People, and promise to Abraham.
Everything YHVH utters becomes eternal instantly, ..... until He silences.
My goodness, this was fascinating... Thank you!
OMG I almost passed out when it ended. You were just getting to the good stuff with the Evyonim. Is there a part 2?
Joh 10:24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
Joh 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Great lecture Dr. Tabor! Could you please address a further point to further complicate things, namely that the term "Jew" was originally a tribal specific designation associated with the tribe of Ju-dah. So while Jews comprised 1/12 of corporate Israel, not all Israel were "Jews"! Then further elaborate on the division of the House of Israel from the House of Judah where the apostate House of Israel were then considered "Goyim" or Gentiles (anyone outside the parameters of the Covenant). And then further elaborate on the many prophesies dealing with the regathering of the scattered 10 Northern tribes and how Yeshua claimed to be sent "only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel" and with Paul's mission to the "Gentiles". But first define "Gentiles" as while the 10 tribes were considered "Gentiles" by the House of Judah, not ALL Gentiles were descendants of the 10 tribes!!! Also, you have James writing to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, as well as Peter in his epistles where he seems to be focused on the Northern tribes of Israel...
I should add for the sake of confusion the fact that the Greek word for church is NOT ekklesia like everyone says it is! It's Kuriakos, a word that never refers to people and is not in my Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words! Yet ekklesia is used about 100x in the Septuagint in reference to Israel. So when we come to the NT and find the same word "ekklesia" being used in reference to the same people what are we to think!?! The concept of another entity falsely called "the Church" (i.e. Christianity) is foreign to Scripture!
Anyway, looking forward to your new book! Shalom!
@@terencechambers7479 That's correct Terence! The only point I would like to clarify is that the "congregation" (i.e. ekklesia) is the SAME group of people, Israel! While Paul clarifies in Rom.9-11 that "not all Israel is Israel" and that SOME, not all, of the natural branches had been "cut off" because of unbelief there has always been a righteous remnant, the true natural branch that has remained to which the "unnatural branches" (i.e. Gentiles: ANYONE outside of the "covenants of promise", Eph.2) are to be grafted into. Into the "Israel of God" (Gal.6:16)!
"I should add for the sake of confusion.." 😂 Love great comments!
It's interesting that you say that Abraham didn't believe in Christ and I am with you on that 100% but many Pentecostals and neo-evangelicals are taught that Abraham did believe in Christ and not just "Christ" as in a messiah but as in Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ of God. I've heard this in several different churches. Very odd because you don't see that when reading Genesis. That has to be forced in later.
Nazareth did not exist at the time of Paul
Abraham met Him as Malki- Tzadok and gave Him the Tithe
@@seekthetruthandthetruthwil2388 - Right but we don't have any scriptural evidence that Abraham understood him to be Jesus of Nazareth. Abraham lived before a lot of Christ's importance was taught to us. It wasn't until Moses that we would receive the Law and understand the significance of all the things that would be the fulfillment of Christ's advent.
I mean, think about it. Did Abraham know the story of Adam and Eve? Maybe but until Moses wrote it down, we don't have any real hard and fast teaching in the post Flood world.
@@GizmoFromPizmo Abraham would know of Adam and Eve, although it may not have been the biblical version. As all civilizations had the counterfeit mother son imagery
The very fact that Abraham recognized Malki- Tzadok and acknowledged His superiority over the priesthood which would come though his loins, shows he knew a lot more than people around him:
Although i agree that we have it more clear than the people before the cross
Another good lecture by Dr. Tabor.
Great lecture Dr. Tabor! Love you and Bart Ehrman.
Do you love me, 🍪, 🐻?
WHAT IS SPECIAL ABOUT BEING A HINDU?
By Francois Gautier.
Diversity in Divinity and Unity in Spirituality.
1) Believe in God ! - Aastik - Accepted
2) Don't believe in God ! - You're accepted as Nastik
3) You want to worship idols - please go ahead. You are a murti pujak.
4) You dont want to worship idols - no problem. You can focus on Nirguna Brahman.
5) You want to criticise something in our religion. Come forward. We are logical. Nyaya, Tarka etc. are core Hindu schools.
6) You want to accept beliefs as it is. Most welcome. Please go ahead with it.
7) You want to start your journey by reading Bhagvad Gita - Sure !
8) You want to start your journey by reading Upanishads - Go ahead.
9) You want to start your journey by reading Purana - Be my guest.
10) You just don't like reading Puranas or other books. No problem my dear. Go by Bhakti tradition . ( bhakti- devotion)
11) You don't like idea of Bhakti ! No problem. Do your Karma. Be a karmayogi.
12) You want to enjoy life. Very good. No problem at all. This is Charvaka Philosophy.
13) You want to abstain from all the enjoyment of life & find God - jai ho ! Be a Sadhu, an ascetic !
14) You don't like the concept of God. You believe in Nature only - Welcome. (Trees are our friends and Prakriti or nature is worthy of worship).
15) You believe in one God or Supreme Energy. Superb! Follow Advaita philosophy
16) You want a Guru. Go ahead. Receive gyaan.
17) You don't want a Guru.. Help yourself ! Meditate, Study !
18) You believe in Female energy ! Shakti is worshipped.
19) You believe that every human being is equal. Yeah! You're awesome, come on let's celebrate Hinduism!
"Vasudhaiva kutumbakam" (the world is a family)
20) You don't have time to celebrate the festival.
Don't worry. One more festival is coming! There are multiple festivals every single day of the year.
21) You are a working person. Don't have time for religion. Its okay. You will still be a Hindu.
22) You like to go to temples. Devotion is loved.
23) You don't like to go to temples - no problem. You are still a Hindu!
24) You know that Hinduism ☺ is a way of life, with considerable freedom.
25) You believe that everything has God in it. So you worship your mother, father, guru, tree, River, Prani-matra, Earth, Universe!
26) And If you don't believe that everything has GOD in it - No problems. Respect your viewpoint.
27) "Sarve jana sukhino bhavantu " (May you all live happily)
You represent this! You're free to choose, my dear Hindu!
This is exactly the essence of Hinduism, all inclusive .. That is why it has withstood the test of time inspite of repeated onslaught both from within and outside, and assimilated every good aspects from everything . That is why it is eternal !!!
There is a saying in Rigveda , the first book ever known to mankind which depicts the Hinduism philosophy in a Nutshell -" Ano bhadrah Krathavo Yanthu Vishwathah"- Let the knowledge come to us from every direction "
One may not cast another
From the love of God
Our Eternal Mother
Dr. Tabor, your Biblical scholarship speaks to my condition.
Excellent lecture.
Great presentation!
Great lecture (as usual) Dr. Tabor! I really appreciate your relaxed though reasoned, measured and precise style. I'm no expert on this area of history but I have an observation which I am sure is probably elemental to those like yourself who are. Is it demonstrably correct to say that during and after the Jewish rebellions of A.D.66 -70 and Bar Kokhba A.D. 132 - 136 the tendency of early Christians to distance themselves from Jews was accelerated? Or was this process well underway by then?
Fascinating!!
Please post the rest!
In 96CE Nerva gave the gentile Christians a "divorce" from the Jews and Jewish "Christians" (if one can even assert such a name as a descriptor). So, the separation had to have begun even before the second century.
They are all just labels that can never adequately describe any single individual and have different meanings at different time periods and different locations.
The New Testament clearly teaches the "the last days" had already arrived. The Book of Hebrews says, "Hath in these LAST DAYS spoken unto us by His Son..." Peter quotes Joel who said, "And it shall come to pass in the LAST DAYS, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh". The idea that it's pointing to some future time has to be read into the scriptures. The Last Days started 2,000 years ago. Jesus is the Prince of peace and the period of global peace is upon us. There are no nations, which are ruled by God fighting wars with each other. World peace is here, if we want it. God is not our problem. Do you want to be at peace? Then allow God to rule over you.
Some standing here will not taste death.....
apparently you are left behind according to your belief.
The last days in their time was the "end of the age" not the end of the world. Their age ended when the temple was destroyed. The current age is almost over through, and God shall return although not how you expect Him to
We have evidence of Nazarites/Ebionites, but do we have any evidence of groups-contemporary to them-following Paul (ie, the version where keeping Torah is ok but unnecessary)? Thanks!
Correction @ 3:45 ish - "Turned to idols to serve the true and living God," is actually - "turned from idols" so as not to confuse some. Otherwise thank you, you're very much appreciated. We know what you meant
This is all very interesting
Your so right about Christ, he brings it all together. Your statement about the Jews is absolutely correct. Truly loved this video. Now I know I am not the only one who believes in the same idea. Thank You!!!
Who did the art on the video (cover)?
thx bro excellent teaching,,,, u say it much better than i do,,,, shalom 1of2wits
That guy Paul must have been on some serious drugs 🤣🤣
There is a semetic version of tree worship of Asherah she is represented as a pole or a tree near Cananite religious locations to honour the Urgaratic mother goddess, Asherah consort of ELI. And its said that the Israelites imported elements of Asherah poles from the Cananiites.
Then God said, "Let us make man in *our* image, after *our likeness;"*
The old stories get mixed in with the new.
Your generosity, James Tabor, is legendary. I just love listening to your lectures. Something that keeps coming up when this subject is discussed is the anglicized "Jehovah" or quasi-Hebrew "Yaweh", both of which are renderings of Tetragrammaton which according to a lot of old Hebrew texts I've read has been said to be the the unpronounceable name of god. Years ago, being the somewhat obsessive-to-a-fault armchair religious synchretist/historian, I began to look into possible meanings of the four Hebrew letters that make Tetragrammaton what it is. I struck out over and over again until I began to approach the Kabbalah. This all began to take place a few decades ago and in the years between then and now, I've wandered down some roads that really have grown quite esoteric and have come out into some pretty surrealistic clearings within the thick forest of letters looming high about me in all directions. One of my favorite is a definition that applies a familial role to each of the letters of Tetragrammaton - Yod being the father, heh the mother, vau the son and the final heh being the daughter who then becomes the mother, thus altogether representing an eternal generation and regeneration of all things. Then having studied a little further into it all, I find plenty of evidence to support the Hebrey Bible being a back-translation of the Greek Pentateuch and Septuagint. This sent me down a rabbit hole in search of the Greek word that might have been back-translated as YHVH. The results are numerous, but overall, they all unsurprisingly seem to refer to a figure of great authority.
Then there's the curiosity that I can't shake no matter how many times I read the refutations of various thinkers and scholars all of whom are probably thousands of times smarter than I am, and that is the fact that Jeheshua, a possible spelling of the Latin/Anglicized Jesus, could be spelled YHShVH - basically Tetragrammaton with a shin slotted into the center, a letter with Kabbalistic connotations of "change" and "fire". I'm not saying I've put a whole lot of stock into the whole thing. It just interested me to an enormous extent.
And I suppose that the most fascinating aspect of the whole thing for me is the fact that it's so comfortable and acceptable for modern Christians to use Tetragrammaton, this unpronouncable name of God, in such a bastardized way, given, of course, that the initial "unpronouncable name" thing was all nonsense to begin with.
Anyway, that's a very long comment, and I appreciate that you're probably a busy man with more interesting things to pursue. But that you are knowledgeable when it comes to this topic is incontrovertible. If you, or any of your subscribers with some insight into this matter were to get back to me with some kind of explanation that grants me some clarity on the matter, I would consider myself forever in your debt.
Buddhism is awesome! I've spent a whole lot of time studying Buddhist writings, too, and have yet to find something therein that contradicts anything else therein. And even if I ever did, I'd quickly find myself capable of dismissing it as just another absurdity the contemplation of which might, even if only for a moment, one day lead my selfish yet striving ass to samadhi. What a splendidly, seemingly incorruptible philosophy for life and potential mode of escape from this confining cycle of samsara.
I just wanted to say, I admire your tenacity and I found your comment super interesting. Thank you for taking the time to post
Thanks
James i heard it; saw you saying you are buddhist, by the way which bar were you in?
anyways, as you said a catholic is still a Jew ,if he happens to be of Jewish descent.
this is the problem in India, (it is more relevant now) as a believer in Jesus, not only me but all Christians in my country , have to face a stark reality.
We are reminded 24x7 that we are basically hindus. similar aspects of judaism and hinduism; culture, ethnicity .
enlightening topic.
Your premise is wrong, that Judaism is a religion. It is not. It is a Tribal culture. The question of who is a Jew is who is a member in good standing, who has a “citizenship card”. If an American citizen moves to France, they still have an American citizenship.
@@4clempt you are confused. Religion is attributed to formalistic ritual and worship. Citizenship is not culture nor religion. A Jew is a citizen of Israel.an American non Jew cannot claim Israeli citizenship, besides non Jews cannot become Jews by descent, but we call them proselytes , Samaritan, gentile.
@@Geraldinopauldesouza Norhing is more encapsulating of the true Imperialistic Essenes of Christianity than preaching to Jews about Jews. You are a good soldier of the Supreme Empire of god Zus.
@@Isaac-hr8ug Isaac wasn't an Israelite. The Criminality of Christianity and the ways victims of Christianity manifest the damage it caused them, pose a mortal danger to me and to my family. You don't have a right to be offended by the TRUTH. I don't give a shit about other people's beliefs, I am a Jew, not a predatory Imperialist Christian, but Christianity ITSELF and your efforts to fix the problems its demonic founders caused you, is at MY PERSONAL expense. The spilled blood of my murdered ancestors including my IMMEDIATE family is calling to me to do something to protect myself and my children from more of the same.
@@4clempt Both of you have a poor understanding in the topic of ethnicity and genetics regarding this question, much like Dr. Tabor himself (sadly he demonstrated alot of ignorance here). Here is the post I made which briefly answer this "problem":
Woody Allen and most "Ashkenaz Jevvs" in general are ethnically alot closer to Jevvs from 2000 years ago than you might think. Genetic studies proved this many times. You can also just take a look at the Samaritans and see with your own eyes.
And regarding Jevvs from Pan-Arabaist countries (notice I don't use the nonsensical terminology "Arab countries"), such as Sephardic and Mizrahi Jevvs, they are also proven to be ethnically Hebrew-Canaanite with diaspora admixture.
Now, regarding who is a "Jevv", since the term has been misused and misunderstood by pretty much everyone due to various historical reasons, you should forget about that term and instead examine who is an ethnically a Hebrew-Canaanite (the Israelites were a sub-group of that ethnos, which icluded other groups such as the Moabites, Amonites, Edomites), and who is religiously Jevvish? (and of course if you really want to be accurate, you need to break Jevvish down to which sect of Judaism, because in the 2nd temple period you had plenty. Today you have mostly various Phariseeic-Rabbinic sects but also Qaraites as well)."
Abraham was chosen by God before works-but also before faith.
No one ever talks about Abraham's second wife Keturah and the sons that they had together, mentioned in Genesis 25.. Why not? JESUS and Paul called HIS followers the Elect mentioned in Matthew 24:22,,31and Romans 8:33. What is the difference between GOD'S Elect and Christians. Please explain. Thank you.
I Like what he arrives at in terms of the decision of a change but what he’s missing is that the living Christ was there in the beginning and is there me and he is the alpha and the omega he quoted Deuteronomy even to Lucifer when you stepped in the desert and he often spoke of Abraham and Abraham‘s children so the key point is that Christ fulfilled the law he didn’t change the way he fulfilled the law and there is a change through it
I think the problem is not clearly making the difference between “Israelite” and “Jew” many people use both terms interchangeably
Actually in Classically Christianity
The Liturgy that we called The Liturgy of the Catechumen’s. Is very similar to Jewish Temple Service.
Remember Judaism after the Temple destruction changed from a sacrificial religion.
@ about 36:00 … is that where the term “skin graft” is derived from? Because that would just make so much sense … and hilariously so
The early believers that Jesus was Lord were kicked out of the temple and the synagogues, were ostracized by their families and beaten in the marketplaces.
That is when the separation began.
Jewish believers often held onto the traditions in order to evangelize within their own people, but they were considered separate and anathema.
When Jesus died, did his soul go up to Heaven ?
And then come back down, three days and three nights later ?
Then go back up to Heaven again when he died the second time ?
no of course not.
@@barunto1
So what did happen to his soul ?
I've come to the opinion that Christianity is basically a philosophy based on verses taken out of their historical and cultural context primarily from Paul's writings.
It's an exploitive social system that's been spread worldwide via nefarious schemes that exploitive regimes use to help enrich them by plundering resources that aren't theirs to exploit. They only use a god to lend some credence to their nefarious desires.
The Ressurre tion of Death for months is the next issue amid ww3 or crisis. Pastor JBAlmeida Brazil.
Christianity started officially in A D 313 when an edict of Milan was proclaimed by the Roman government and 27 books written in Greek were supplied to use to replace all books and gospels at that time.
Christianity began when God gave clothes to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3.
When a fascist state, Rome, adopted it as there spiritual arm to screw over the population, they refined a model to allow a exploitive regimes to have a "spiritual arm" that was tasked with destroying indigenous cultures that needed to be either destroyed or domesticated so they could be used to further enrich the exploitive state, it's a total scam.
I disagree with that 100%. Christianity as we know it started the destruction of the temple in 70 CE.
@@thedude9941
Christianity started with Paul.
@@lutkedog1 I said Christianity as we know it today, before the destruction of the temple you still had Christians that made sacrifices at the temple and some that kept Jewish law, that all changed after the destruction of the temple, which is when I would say what we know as Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism today both started.
Born 2 Times, Heavenly
Born 1st Time, Physically
Born-again, 2nd Time, is REQUIRED, Spiritually
God = Life
"I am come that you might have Life and have it more abundantly."
By definition there can be only one all-inclusive Absolute Being (Life) in which all relative beings live, move and have their Being.
We are all It (Life at Larege) to an unknowable/inexhaustible extent, as the facets of a Diamond are 'both' distinct from each other 'and' the Diamond itself.
Love is the recognition of our shared Being.
" even the Elect shall be devive
Judah’s sons were killed , destroying his lineage and seed . After he sells his brother into slavery . Surviving him is his daughters , the lineage of Judah was passed by the women . Is this why they use the mother being Jewish as the distinguishing factor ?
Awesome discussion,Judiasm is one tribe we should actually say the Israelite faith
Joh 8:56 “Your father Aḇraham was glad that he should see My day, and he saw it and did rejoice.” (TS2009). Abraham did accept/approve Messiah. The Christianity of Paul's time is the "faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 1:3 WEB) and very well could be described as Yeshua Judaism. The "Christianity" of today which culminated in fourth century Roman Catholicism is counterfeit and is actually "Mystery Babylon" of Rev. 17 and 18 that believers in Messiah are called to "come out of".
the creator uses himself/shows himself in many ways & these names come up in times of him talking about himself using force or nature
Nature is God.
If you understand quantum physics & Shamanism, you will understand that everything has consciousness due to the structure of reality being conscious.
I am God
You are God
What is not God
… we forget this and defile everything…
Paul said -God choose to reveal his son in me. This statement summarizes everything about Paul.
If not Jesus and the Apostles, whodunit? Documentation please?
Maybe Jesus, his disciples, Paul ... AND the nascent network of bishops who, in combination with excellent Roman roads and shipping, disseminated the religion throughout the Empire. Christianity moved along the roads and shipping lanes, along with letters of church fathers and "shepherds"/bishops. The process, of course, took a while.
@@stephenbastasch7893 Excellent. Irenaeus and Tertullian describe the same. Blessings.
My only and largest lament is how he interchangeably uses the term "Jews" to try to define Paul and Abraham and their countryman> Paul was not a "Jew" he weas a "Hebrew" and "Benjamite" not of the tribe of Judah. Abraham was a Hebrew And the "father" of thr tribes through his grandson. There were 12 tribes and Judah was only one of those. It DOES make a difference!!
From a Muslim side. Its very interesting to observe that in Genesis, ALLAH has often given the blessing to Abraham's children rather than Isaac alone as Jews and Christians Claim....
This is very much parallel with the Quranic's narrative of bringing back Ishmael to the blessing as he was excommunicated by his cousins(Isaac's descendants).
In the book of Jasher Isaac cried when his brother Ishmael died. They were very close bonded.
It's Sarah and Hagar that faught with each other not the brothers.
Also in Abraham Ishmael and Isaac descendants until today are bonded by blood.
Unfortunately they have still not realized it's the two mother's that are still in spirit keeping them apart.
I have seen Jews and Muslims stand together IN LOVE against animal cruelty. They have realized their fight is not against each other their fight is to stand up as one against lovelessness, cruelty, jealousy.
Once they realized that they unite against the true "invisible" enemy that is causing division among them they have conquered the "real" enemy
Nobody gives af about the quran
Although Ishmael is blessed beyond measure, The Promised child is Isaac as Ishmael is the child of the flesh. and that’s why the covenant was repeated with Isaac and then Jacob again
Hi James! Found your talk very informative. You said at one point that Abraham did not know the Messiah (Christ) but the Scriptures say he did. Abraham knew אלשדי AL'SHaDaY, the Almighty (the LORD). Isaiah 44:6, ...I am the First and I am the Last. Revelation 2:8, ...the First and the Last who became Dead and came to Life. The Title 'the First and the Last' identifies Him as the same Being, the Son. The 'First' is the Holy Spirit Son, the 'Last' is the Holy Spirit Son manifest in the Flesh as the 'Son of Man'. Matthew 24:29-31, ...the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great glory.
In Revelation 11:17-18 'Lord God Almighty' in Hebrew would be, יהוה אלשדי YaHUaH AL'SHaDaY.
From Genesis to Revelation, the God who has revealed Himself to Man is the Holy Spirit Son. The Holy Spirit Father, Our Father, has never been seen by Man, His Son has revealed Him to the World. They are the יהוה אלהים YaHUaH ALaHaYM of the House of YaHUaH, they both bear the same Name. Revelation 14:1, ...having His Name and the Name of His Father written on their foreheads.
Hope you find this as exciting as I do? May you be Blessed.
"The Vishnu Purana also explains that, "When the practices taught in the Vedas and institutes of law have nearly ceased, and the close of the Kali age shall be nigh, a portion of that divine being who exists of His own spiritual nature, and who is the beginning and end, and who comprehends all things, shall descend upon earth. He will be born in the family of Vishnuyasha, an eminent brahmana of Shambhala village, as Kalki, endowed with eight superhuman faculties. By His irresistible might he will destroy all the mlecchas (Barbarians) and thieves, and all whose minds are devoted to iniquity. He will reestablish righteousness upon earth, and the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as clear as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who will follow the laws of the Krita age or Satya Yuga, the age of purity. As it is said, 'When the sun and moon, and the lunar asterism Tishya, and the planet Jupiter, are in one mansion, the Krita age shall return.'" (Book Four, Chapter 24)
I think church of Christ folks understand that Jesus could not have been a Christian during His ministry - not in the Christian sense of the word. A Christian is a New Testament person and Jesus, during His ministry, lived under the Law. Church of Christ folks are taught from early on to see the thick black line drawn between the Old Covenant and the New, as explained in the Book of Hebrews. I'm not sure that any other denomination actually teaches or even believes that.
Logos Anointed One from Judea Rome
The authors of all the comments, know more about the subject than I do. All I ask is the answer Jesus gave to the question
please tell me the year you were born.
How about James &Jude Jesus Brothers ? I've seen clips of that James actually formed the 1st new Jerusalem church , & Paul &his apostles we're
competitively trying to win over followers , & while James was n a stadium preaching ,Paul came up and shoved James down the stone staircases & broke James back ,arm and leg I believe , ?
@@MichaelTheophilus906 History channels I've ever seen are always accurate .. not my fault your to far gone into someone else's philosophy n beliefs,. Can't except anything else outside the cannon or a different point of view of inside it either , a closed minded bible thumper , hypocrite
Honored to be the 444th comment..I greet you in the Name Above All names The EL above ALL el's EL ELYON EL SHADDAI YHUUH Adonai and Ruach HA KODESH YHUUSHA 3 in 1 1 in 3 not a TRINITY but the ONE who has Been for ETERNITY! SHALOM🕊
"What is now called the Christian religion existed even among the ancients and was not lacking from the beginning of the human race until 'Christ came in the flesh.' From that time, true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christian." -- Saint Augustine, Retractations
SHEMMA is the Trinity of the Stars of Creation above ... about to be tossed below. The Shin is a Mem. Cassiopeia falling and Orion rising. A symbol thousands of years old both ways.
Agni was a Christ ... about 4415 BC.
The 1st of Aries was at Orion, just as it had been at Leo 6,400 years earlier and Scorpio 6,400 years before that.
Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey is a SEASON & A DATE.
Jupiter arrived the Heart of Aquarius Feb 27, 2010.
The Vav is the Sign of Jonah ... place of the Shen ring of Shamash.
Jupiter returns there with Venus ... blue star Erra arrives there with Ishum red star ... around Oct 22, 2022.
You can find the moment depicted at Black Mountain, CA.
I suspect HAWA was virtually the same.
Watch the planets as one is sacrificed by a Beam from Sirius..
Will it be Mars as Bull of Heaven in Taurus?
Will it be Jupiter as the Lamb of God in Aries?
Will it be a regicide of Saturn whose split head revealing a glorious Venus rising?
Ever read "Dune" by Frank Herbert?
He had a concept of the "Missionaria Protectiva."
It was the promulgation of the Mother-Son myth throughout the Universe.
It's one understanding of the original story of Creation & Judgment. Apocalypse & Genesis. I and Thou. We are One.
"The Vishnu Purana also explains that, "When the practices taught in the Vedas and institutes of law have nearly ceased, and the close of the Kali age shall be nigh, a portion of that divine being who exists of His own spiritual nature, and who is the beginning and end, and who comprehends all things, shall descend upon earth. He will be born in the family of Vishnuyasha, an eminent brahmana of Shambhala village, as Kalki, endowed with eight superhuman faculties. By His irresistible might he will destroy all the mlecchas (Barbarians) and thieves, and all whose minds are devoted to iniquity. He will reestablish righteousness upon earth, and the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as clear as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who will follow the laws of the Krita age or Satya Yuga, the age of purity. As it is said, 'When the sun and moon, and the lunar asterism Tishya, and the planet Jupiter, are in one mansion, the Krita age shall return.'" (Book Four, Chapter 24)
Why wouldn't Paul have gone to hear Jesus? They were contemporaries. Paul was sort of inner circle in Jerusalem and would have been there for three pilgrimage feasts a year when Jesus was. How did Paul miss the entry into Jerusalem, the crowd's sudden turn a couple of days later for Barabbas, the ghosts wandering the streets? How did curiosity about this guy who had turned the Sanhedrin on its head NOT intrigue Paul? And wouldn't some eye-witness nuggets in his letters solidify his position in the new church? The answer to these questions is that Paul is an embroidered literary device, too. ANY time you have a bunch of people grouping up, you're going to have WOLVES come in--that much they got right. But the reason is that people are power and more people are more power. We see this ALL the time in groups of master gardeners to little ol' ladies sewing blankets for the homeless. One or two people who are sociopaths come in and railroad the group to THEIR ends, not the group's.
Paul was trained in Judaism until on the "Road to Damascus."
TS 20:46, not the land, not geographical... In your head, Calvary, Golgatha... The place of the skull. Where the Helmet of Salvation covers .
On the day of Pentecost, ten days after Christ ascended into heaven
to get His kingdom which is the
church of Christ. (ACTS 2)
The fist prophecy about Jesus was when Eve was told by God that her Seed would crush the serpent"s head and the serpents would bruise His heel. Also later in scripture it is written that in the begining the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. In the same chapter It also says that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. The Word being Jesus. Look it up on Bible Gateway if you believe I'm Just making this up.
Acts 15:4-26.
As always, fantastic. Growing up evangelical, I was taught what Paul and Jesus was said to have said. Then I’d actually read Paul and the Gospels and found I couldn’t make heads or tails of half of it. I’d read Romans and basically have no idea what I’d read half the time, except for the ethical guidance. However, Jesus and Paul by Dr Tabor brought tremendous clarity and made a lot of mystifying things clear, or if that was not possible, clarified what the interpretive issues were. What a great book and gift to anyone who is trying to figure out what these ancient writers are trying to say, not what we want them to say.
Read Father Richard Rohr for insights into Paul.
Juda Tribe Split from "Is real"
Paul was active first, later came the gospels... Paul was around when they executed Jesus.... but was Phärisian Talib...
There is freedom and joy in the innocence of childhood. In eternal life, i believe we can look forward to that innocence. We should remember that Adam was not created an animal. Generally, any "driving force" in man did not come from God. If my son were to make such a statement about God "knowing" Abraham, i would slap his face...but still love him. Jesus sounded pretty forceful with "Ye do err."
With Abraham.
So Paul usurped the movement / sect?
Abraham, Sarah, Ishmael and Isaac... Which things are an allegory. Sarah, Mt Sinai is above, and the mother of us all.
There is the 6th favour that is Rulership/Kingship... followed by The Holy Land....
Steve Bannon?!
No, Meathead (All in the Family.)
So Christians today worshipping Paul instead of God; since they follow the teaching of Paul not Jesus.
Both religions were created after 70 ad.
cristinity crate by paul
Darn, just as it started to get good, talking about St. James, and The Poor, it ends. 🙄
Christianity began when jesus appeared to mary after the resurrection. Its that simple.
Separation of sheep and goats. 💪📜
It's interesting how seductive and enticing intellectual forays into scripture and 'knowledge' can be. The simple embarrassing truth is that what Paul KNEW and what Jesus IS has and will always be missed by the intellect. The Gospel and the epistles are authored by humans who have been transformed in a way intellect can NEVER grasp. It can talk about it for centuries and fill libraries but it can never ever know it because it is ONLY known by faith. Once that (by the grace of God) happens, it's a NEW GAME. Who Jesus is and all of it falls into place as that is the nature of the WORD.
The covenant with Abraham is of faith, the covenant with Moses is of sin, and run alongside one another. The religion of Christ is of Abrahamic Jews, with the Mosaic Jews who can now repent and be forgiven past sins to be born again.
I'm not a Chrisitan. I was raised in a Christian family. This line of Christians being vaguely surprised, with inferences of discomfort, in the "news" that Jesus was a Jew, is a bit, in my limited view, undeserved, and it doesn't do our desire to have our Christian friends re-examine their beliefs any favors. It really makes us look sophomoric and spiteful.
And they’re not?
@@Find-Your-Bliss- In the late 1970's people in my congregation when I was a kid literally had bumper stickers that said, "My Father is a Jewish Carpenter" Ya, they know Jesus is a Jew. Oh, wait, did you mean atheists are in fact sophomoric and spiteful? Sure, some are.
@@Isaac-hr8ug Thanks Isaac. Have a good day.
What Hath God Wrought? The nutty comments below...
One of the central messages of Jesus in the Gospels is that the Jews he was confronted by did not properly understand Judaism itself. Jesus presents himself as the revelation of true Judaism. Jesus was a Jew who revealed and fulfilled Judaism. The religion of Jesus is called Christianity because most people who identify as Jewish reject Jesus as the revelation of the will of Yahweh. But Jesus was clear that most Jews don't understand Judaism, or the will of Yahweh.
And neither do Christians
@@MinisterRedPill That's right. The apocalyptic Judaism of Jesus became almost lost somewhere in the historical shadows between "Judaism" and "Christianity".
@@k.arlanebel6732 a shame that most of this is rhetoric. Nonsensical diatribes of protestantism. So many people today think they know what Jesus thought or taught through a dark window.
Does believing in Messiah start a new religion? Let me put it this way does believing in Christ make you anointed one as well? Do my take Christ was not his last name.. So you believe in God not in christ what does that make u? What about we say gentiles became spiritual Israel or Israelites........... Can someone help... On Paul he never came what is called Christianity..
6th century. When Justinian made it illegal to not be a Catholic Christian.
PKD had a lot to say about the Rome- & how it is still in power.
Every one can join the Jewish nation
Why did God make this all so confusing?
Man do that. They believe more in other man than the MH. Cursed is the man that trusts in another man (Jeremiah 17:5). All these religions, all this doctrines are from the enemy, he is, by his cleverness, deceiving the whole world, even the elect, if we’re possible. This man is flesh, and by flesh and to flesh is he talking… nothing new under the sun..I do not trust nor in him, nor in any other doctrine, nor in any ‘ism’..no, no, I trust in the Voice of YHWH and His Word, who is from the beginning.
14:40.... he will keep the way of Sydke??? ?(Melchezedeck)....Eshmum the "healer God" of the Essenes who incidently was the communal religious group of Nasenes or Nazarenes thus why he was known as Jesus of Nazareth...many of their rituals and beliefs you can see played out from John being in the wilderness BAPTIZING as well as to WHY Jesus told the young ruler to "sell all that you have "
Peter you will build a church! He said the word church once to shimeome the stone or Satan! Paul wrote the rest.
Very interesting and compelling topic! Judaism and Christianity are religions (man-made) indeed; they are not the same as the faith, The Way of YHVH!
Judaism is a man-made religion by the rabbis during and after Babylonian captivity. Christianity is also a man-made religion by the Romans in part bc of antisemitism (w/ plenty of Greek influence). From the beginning, there has been only One Faith, The Way of YHVH. The formula has also been the same - grace faith obedience, in that order. Grace comes from YHVH, Faith comes through Yeshua, and Obedience is by the Ruach (Holy Spirit). The people of this faith are called Israel. This is not to be confused with the house of Israel (northern kingdom), or the modern nation of Israel (which is really the house of Judah) controlling the Land.
Do NOT confuse Judaism with the faith, or Christianity with the faith. They are man-made traditions that are both full of syncretism. Judaism with rabbinic oral laws of their own creation via Babylonian influence (consider the calendar months, etc.) and Christianity with pagan Greek/Roman god-influence. Judaism has added to the commandments and made them difficult, while Christianity has taken away from the commandments by claiming the Law (Torah) ended with the cross. Both are Biblical error, violating Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32. Judaism continues to place rabbinic oral laws over The Law, and Christianity continues to practice its own traditions (Easter, Christmas, Sunday worship, no Sabbath rest). Come out of her My people.
Yeshua was Jewish (from the tribe of Judah) but practiced the faith, The Way of YHVH, NOT Judaism. This is clear by His handling of the Pharisees and priests of Judaism. He attacked them and their practices at every turn. Mark 7 is a good example. They eventually killed Him over His differences with them and Judaism.
The "living God" the one you feel, know, recognize, admire.. Love and serve.... The Pagan don't understand a living God, they explain "the existence" on idol workship.... You specify "nature" woekship" what about: power-workship, hatred-workship, enemy-workship, abuse-workship, lies-workship... Yeah, difficile to retiré à little dust speck on the neighbors eye
John the baptist was greatest prophet born among women. An horn of salvation who baptized unto repentance. Huuuummmm...Isaiah 40:3 was about John preparing the way for YHWH the fathers spirit not another prophet. Apears we had some personification going on that got literalized. The LORD in hebrew is not a man named Jesus. Isaiah 40:3. And no one was ever literally killed as a human sacrifice on a literal cross. Hebrews 5:7, Psalms 18, 41, 91. More metaphor that was literalized in the gospels.
John the baptist was also John the apostle and revelator who lived a long life and saw his seed Isaiah 53. The first of MANY chosen prophets. He was one of the 12. Jesus was written into the story because the editors of the books much later believed in the 2 messiah theory. But it was actually referring to the 1st century vs the last generation of this age when there will be the remaining of the chosen 144k prophets who prepare the way again. The 1st century was a small shadow or type for our last generation. After 2 days. Hosea 6.
The trinity is a concoction of Rome. No human being is the Almighty. However the living spoken word and spirit of the Almighty regenerates us into his image as eloheim (little e) at our spiritual birth not physical birth Romans 1:3-4.
When Jesus rose from the dead. Who Moved the Stone? by Frank Morison
Jesus did not exist.
@@lutkedog1 If not Jesus and the Apostles, whodunit, and wrote the four Gospels, 14 letters of Paul, and distributed them in Aramaic, Greek. Coptic, Vetus Latin, and other languages, and distributed them throughout the ancient world? Inquiring minds would like to know?
@@jamessheffield4173
Paul Started it
@@lutkedog1 So we got the letters, then who wrote the four Gospels and organized the Apostolic Churches.? See Irenaeus, Tertullian, and Hippolytus.
Paul and Peter and James existed that,s all i know