Hello! I'm runnin the vittoria xc-light and I have problems with the sealant. After about two months its seems that the insert acts like a sponge and the selant creates clots very fast. Did you have any bad experience with the panzer inserts? Im now looking to replace the vittoria airliner.
Ah yes, I took the Panzer out after ruining my back rim with it in. I took a hit on a tree root that wasn’t bad enough of a hit to think any damage would be done, but it flat spotted the rim and made it impossible to seal up tubeless. I’ve taken that hit and worse many times over with the cushcore in and not had any issues. I think on a hard impact the panzer wasn’t there for me, so I’ve gone back to the cushcore as its more protective, and makes for a more supple ride compared to the Panzer.
Hey mate, i destroyed an EX511 with it in the rear. I landed on a root and flatspotted the rim to the poing it would no longer seal up tubeless, tried 4 different rim tape applications but it was toast. The hit wasnt bad at all and surprised me that I’d damaged it. I’ve landed in those same roots many many times with the cushcore in with no issue, so I concluded that the protection was inadequate. Adding to it feeling choppy when in the front tyre I’d much prefer the cushcore. The weight is an obvious factor but if I’m gonna run an insert out back, I want it to be protective
Yeah they’re all good points. Appreciate the reply. You helped me make up my mind. I’ve got carbon rims 🙃 definitely want a bit of protection. Sucks you destroyed a wheel in the process. You’re channel is awesome mate there’s a lot of information on here.
It didn’t hang around long. It was quite a harsh ride compared to no insert or a cushcore. I think the material they use was not suited for compliance, just rim protection
That's the volume reduction. So they should provide that. But might be some difference, depending on how resistant tthe insert is to air pressure compressing the insert, and impacts damping, and general damping. I've not tried both so don't know, just sharing some basic physics.
I found the panzer actually gave me more feedback from the tyre at the same pressure I run the cushcore with. I can’t say I notice much damping quality from the cushcore at all until I let the tyres down a couple psi. But that makes for a bit of an unstable tyre so I avoid it and just treat them as rim protection
Good questoo, I didn’t address that. The cush comes with its own valve but the Panzer is just the insert and some sealant. I used the standard bontrager valve and had no trouble getting air in and out, but that is a potential problem with the Panzer, it can block the valve making it hard to get air pressure setup correctly
Hey i would really like for you to get your hands on some Tannus Armor tubeless inserts. Im running them in the rear right now. Ive heard nothing but good things about them. I did however blow up my rear WeAre1 Union back wheel this past weekend with the tannus.. Im still trying to analyze just what happened still so im not putting blame on them just yet.
All my friends with carbon hoops and tire inserts tend to crack them because you end up putting more stress on the rim with the insert. I don’t know the science here but once they removed the inserts, they’ve not cracked any more wheels
@@LoganGregson hmm very interesting theory. I am actually thinking I damaged the rim initially the week before last on another ride. I had a decent size puncture right in the middle of the tread. I plugged it with a Stan’s dart. That same location is right around where the break happened.
@@mtbtelly5522 they do tubeless and tube insert. But it would be interesting to see how these two compare to the competition and between themselves, how the impact protection is.
Tannus Tubeless Cush core is too heavy and not really what I need, it's for tire support, not rim protection mainly, panzer is a single use item so I don't like it either, it's too hard, not springy.
@@parabot2 I wouldn't want the tubed version, very heavy and high rolling resistance, plus it's easier to damage the rim, though it does protect the tube really well, and certainly is convenient if you don't fancy tubeless convertion.
@@emtblaps515 killer. Same man let me know when you get it back. I was doing a corners session at Mori this morning it was rad. A little slick but good
@@emtblaps515 definitely dude. Message me on insta we’ll get out. I’m thinking your ports on that shock were maybe blocked up. I’ve got an x2 now and I had to mess with it a fair bit to get the port equalising. Maybe similar to what yours was doing
I'm lost... here's why: Majority of DH racers... prefer alloy rims... less prone to blow out (rigidity factor).. but if flat does occur, alloy rims still provide the ability to make it across the finish line and log a time. If/when a carbon wheel is ridden, it's rarely in applications requiring cushcore, or Panzer. XC/aggressive trail/light enduro would be likely scenarios for carbon hoops. So I guess my point is... these insert things are a complete waste of money, and completely useless, seeing as they add weight... that carbon hoops would purport to eliminate. It's literally like "insurance"... where you shouldn't need it... and if you do NEED it... it's probably cause you insist on running tire pressure waaaaay too low.
I only use cushcore to help prevent tyre from burping and prevents the tyre from deforming....there for makes the bike safer to ride....not to mention protection of rim and ride quality.
Who cares if you want to run tyre insert and make you wheel 100grams heavier ive tried them and they do work esspessially to hold bead in place during heavy of camber landings. Like most product they have pros and cons try them before you bag them out. I,m currently not running them. If i go to riding area that reguires low pressures and has high speed drops onto sharp rocks i think I would be stupid not to run them and risk trashing a rim, Just my two bobs worth.
I have to pay for my own rims and wheel builds. So an insert at the back is an absolute no brainer for me. The damage prevention is substantial and has saved me plenty of cash over the last 2 plus years of running an insert out back. I don’t regularly trash wheels anyway but when the poor line or big mistake happens, I’m always relieved I have some protection there. A dented rim sucks when you’re running tubeless. If I were to run carbon wheels I’d be even more inclined to protect my investment. Not that I’d ever buy plastic wheels
Love the comparison mate! Awesome vid.
Great vid!
Thanks Pete✌🏼
Hello! I'm runnin the vittoria xc-light and I have problems with the sealant. After about two months its seems that the insert acts like a sponge and the selant creates clots very fast. Did you have any bad experience with the panzer inserts? Im now looking to replace the vittoria airliner.
Clever ideas ,there is so much innovation in the MTB industry.
Good review man ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️🇦🇺💪
how did the Panzer do in the rear long term? is there another video following up on it that im not seeing? thanks
Ah yes, I took the Panzer out after ruining my back rim with it in. I took a hit on a tree root that wasn’t bad enough of a hit to think any damage would be done, but it flat spotted the rim and made it impossible to seal up tubeless. I’ve taken that hit and worse many times over with the cushcore in and not had any issues. I think on a hard impact the panzer wasn’t there for me, so I’ve gone back to the cushcore as its more protective, and makes for a more supple ride compared to the Panzer.
Hey mate, how did the panzer hold up in the rear? Would you say it’s a noticeable difference compared to the cushcore?
Hey mate, i destroyed an EX511 with it in the rear. I landed on a root and flatspotted the rim to the poing it would no longer seal up tubeless, tried 4 different rim tape applications but it was toast. The hit wasnt bad at all and surprised me that I’d damaged it. I’ve landed in those same roots many many times with the cushcore in with no issue, so I concluded that the protection was inadequate. Adding to it feeling choppy when in the front tyre I’d much prefer the cushcore. The weight is an obvious factor but if I’m gonna run an insert out back, I want it to be protective
Yeah they’re all good points. Appreciate the reply. You helped me make up my mind.
I’ve got carbon rims 🙃 definitely want a bit of protection.
Sucks you destroyed a wheel in the process.
You’re channel is awesome mate there’s a lot of information on here.
@@Abe_Rudder thanks a lot bud, my pleasure ✌🏼
How the panzer holding up ? Have you tried the gnarly tire version yet ?
It didn’t hang around long. It was quite a harsh ride compared to no insert or a cushcore. I think the material they use was not suited for compliance, just rim protection
I remember Cushcore talking up the fact that their inserts also provide damping support. Have you noticed that with the Panzers as well?
That's the volume reduction. So they should provide that. But might be some difference, depending on how resistant tthe insert is to air pressure compressing the insert, and impacts damping, and general damping. I've not tried both so don't know, just sharing some basic physics.
I found the panzer actually gave me more feedback from the tyre at the same pressure I run the cushcore with. I can’t say I notice much damping quality from the cushcore at all until I let the tyres down a couple psi. But that makes for a bit of an unstable tyre so I avoid it and just treat them as rim protection
Great vid, not criticising but could you get a mic close to you so we can hear you? 😄
Yep I do need to sort out a remote mic of some sort
What valve stem does the panzer come with ?
Good questoo, I didn’t address that. The cush comes with its own valve but the Panzer is just the insert and some sealant. I used the standard bontrager valve and had no trouble getting air in and out, but that is a potential problem with the Panzer, it can block the valve making it hard to get air pressure setup correctly
That’s why asked it not really comparing apples for apples with the price point
Keen to see what the yellow one weighs in 3-6 months
Or even just a few more weeks...
@@chadsugden411 ah I’ll check in on that! I never considered to moniter that
Hey i would really like for you to get your hands on some Tannus Armor tubeless inserts. Im running them in the rear right now. Ive heard nothing but good things about them. I did however blow up my rear WeAre1 Union back wheel this past weekend with the tannus.. Im still trying to analyze just what happened still so im not putting blame on them just yet.
All my friends with carbon hoops and tire inserts tend to crack them because you end up putting more stress on the rim with the insert. I don’t know the science here but once they removed the inserts, they’ve not cracked any more wheels
@@LoganGregson hmm very interesting theory. I am actually thinking I damaged the rim initially the week before last on another ride. I had a decent size puncture right in the middle of the tread. I plugged it with a Stan’s dart. That same location is right around where the break happened.
Interesting. I did look at the Tannus, but wasn’t sold on the concept initially. I’ll give them a deeper look and re assess it
@@mtbtelly5522 they do tubeless and tube insert. But it would be interesting to see how these two compare to the competition and between themselves, how the impact protection is.
Tannus Tubeless
Cush core is too heavy and not really what I need, it's for tire support, not rim protection mainly, panzer is a single use item so I don't like it either, it's too hard, not springy.
Yeah I use the Tannus Armour with a tube , found it way nicer than cushcore and panzer . Cheap easy to install and offer a very nice ride.
@@parabot2 I wouldn't want the tubed version, very heavy and high rolling resistance, plus it's easier to damage the rim, though it does protect the tube really well, and certainly is convenient if you don't fancy tubeless convertion.
Kangas tomorrow morning son 😉 10.30
That’d be mint!
@@mtbtelly5522 hoping it’s not pissing down. I ended up sending the x2 to cyclinic curious to see what they say about it
@@emtblaps515 killer. Same man let me know when you get it back. I was doing a corners session at Mori this morning it was rad. A little slick but good
@@mtbtelly5522 will do man. I’ll have to get your number one day and catch up for a ride 👍🏻
@@emtblaps515 definitely dude. Message me on insta we’ll get out. I’m thinking your ports on that shock were maybe blocked up. I’ve got an x2 now and I had to mess with it a fair bit to get the port equalising. Maybe similar to what yours was doing
I'm lost... here's why: Majority of DH racers... prefer alloy rims... less prone to blow out (rigidity factor).. but if flat does occur, alloy rims still provide the ability to make it across the finish line and log a time. If/when a carbon wheel is ridden, it's rarely in applications requiring cushcore, or Panzer. XC/aggressive trail/light enduro would be likely scenarios for carbon hoops. So I guess my point is... these insert things are a complete waste of money, and completely useless, seeing as they add weight... that carbon hoops would purport to eliminate. It's literally like "insurance"... where you shouldn't need it... and if you do NEED it... it's probably cause you insist on running tire pressure waaaaay too low.
I only use cushcore to help prevent tyre from burping and prevents the tyre from deforming....there for makes the bike safer to ride....not to mention protection of rim and ride quality.
@@midlifesendermtb2178 exactly... especially when not running a thick and heavy casing tire.
Tell my broken enve wheel that Cushcore is useless.
Who cares if you want to run tyre insert and make you wheel 100grams heavier ive tried them and they do work esspessially to hold bead in place during heavy of camber landings. Like most product they have pros and cons try them before you bag them out. I,m currently not running them. If i go to riding area that reguires low pressures and has high speed drops onto sharp rocks i think I would be stupid not to run them and risk trashing a rim, Just my two bobs worth.
I have to pay for my own rims and wheel builds. So an insert at the back is an absolute no brainer for me. The damage prevention is substantial and has saved me plenty of cash over the last 2 plus years of running an insert out back. I don’t regularly trash wheels anyway but when the poor line or big mistake happens, I’m always relieved I have some protection there. A dented rim sucks when you’re running tubeless. If I were to run carbon wheels I’d be even more inclined to protect my investment. Not that I’d ever buy plastic wheels