I once worked with a Mr Morden. I couldn’t resist always greeting him with “Ahhhhh Mr Morden”.. He eventually asked me why I did it. I explained about Londo, and Babylon 5 in general. He then watched the whole series, and told me he laughed when it came to that scene.. It’s my favourite in the whole Babylon 5 story arc.. 🙂
Did you force your voice to imitate Peter Jurasik accent? 😁 It is indeed a dream of every B5 fan to meet a Mr Morden, provided he does not work for any space Mordor company 💀
Londo Mollari is one of the greatest sci-fi characters of all time. And I'd have to split the credit for that 50-50 between creator/writer J. Michael Straczynksi and actor Peter Jurasik. A schemer, an opportunist, a hedonist ... but above all else: a patriot. Very compelling stuff.
He and G'Kar played by the late Andreas Katsulas were really a great combination and the evolution of their characters was bringing the series forward. Not as we see in many other shows where the characters always follow the same pattern week after week except when you get to the final episode where they suddenly evolve.
I love when Londo tells Vir that he has a gift for him & it's Morden's head on a pike in the courtyard, Vir goes out & waves at his head. Vir has got major nads of steel.
"So what are you going to do Molari, blow up the island?" It was this scene that reminded me of a truism in the Babylon 5 universe. Never play poker with a Centauri.
@ZakhadWOW (1) Atmosphere absorbs signals which limits range. (2) Because the planet is curved, the Shadow ships cannot see beyond the horizon… which is only 3-6 miles if the attacking Centauri ships fly low. This tactic is used by jets & missiles to hide from radar. (3) Morden was obviously frightened seeing the First Ones who are all-powerful suddenly get destroyed. I would not expect coherency from him .
@@Darqshadow Much much worse than a simple evisceration. Vivisection starts with hammering a blade the length of the sternum and spreading the rib cage. Then organs are removed one by one from the least important to the heart. Arteries are sealed to prevent premature death from blood loss. The lungs are left in until the end so the victim can still scream. Oh and all of this happens while the victim is fully conscious and without anything to dull the pain.
@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq Yes, but Londo always put his people and his world first. If Morden had taken the ships and left that would've been the end of it. He likely knew that he wouldn't. But he had to try.
@@zephyr8072 Morden was *way, WAY* overconfident, & he made a TRULY AWFUL, unfortunate blunder - Underestimating Londo. Londo had ceased being a joke ambassador assigned to B5 *as a joke* . He was a truly dangerous man when he had proper motivation.
Possibly one of the best scenes of the whole show, with Peter Jurasik's wonderful portrayal of Londo Mollari. B5 remains a severely underrated show IMHO. The character story arcs were among the best in sci-fi.
Londo has the saddest plot arc in the series. He starts off as a deplorable monster, but when he meets real monsters, he flinches, and tries to stop what is already too late to stop. After finally making amends, he learns the harsh truth, that the Drakh are controlling the Centauri emperors with parasites. Londo has to willingly accept this fate or watch Centauri burn. It's so sad when he tells Sheridan that they are friends, and to remember that, no matter what happens. He knows what will happen, and that he will bear the hatred of trillions before he dies.
I agree with this with one exception. Londo started as a joke. He was comedy relief. Then he went on to become the most tragic character of the whole series. All he wanted to do is help his people and wound up almost destroying them.
@@jeffhyche9839 "All he wanted to do is help his people and wound up almost destroying them." Not true in my opinion. At the beginning he wanted power and he did what he could to obtain it. There wasnt any ulterior motiv to it. That was what drew the shadows to him in the first place. That changed step by step when he started to realize, what price he and others had to pay for his association with the shadows. And once he was fully aware of that, there was no turning back for him anymore.
Londo could have taken a far different path. It probably wouldn't have changed anything but he probably would have born a far different fate. Also Londo had a little voice on his shoulder telling him all the things he was doing wrong and offering him better choices. That voice's name was Vir. So yeah, Londo really has no excuse. That being said he DID technically do all 3 things Emperor Turhan's wife told him to do to avoid eternal damnation so maybe he did alter his fate, at least in a small tiny way?
It is strange the Drakh along with the other Shadow servants don't join forces. It was the Shadows fighting in the previous wars against the other First Ones.
All these years later, I just now noticed that the island looks a lot like Sicily and is called Selene, on a planet with a very roman/italian styled civilization.
@@catacomber8 it really holds up because even though the special effects are dated it doesn't effect your enjoyment of the show because yeah it's a sci-fi show but the messages it putting out into the world is amazing no matter the genre.
I do have to wonder about Mordin’s visceral reaction to the bombing. He’s not just some puppet or willing collaborator, he acted as if his people, as in his own species, were the ones getting blown up. Not only that, but it looked like he was in actual pain, if only limited. I wonder just how deeply he had become tied to the shadows.
I dont think that at that point there was much, if anything, left of the original person, save for the memories. Iirc the shadows basically molded his mind as they needed it for him to become the perfect puppet, when the captured the transport he was on.
Jeanne Cavelos' technomage trilogy has it where he has an implant or something that keeps him in contact with the Shadows and, presumably, the abrupt cutting of the connection is what struck him.
I got the impression that like the middleman, Morden was a true believer in the shadows philosophy... unlike Anna... He was hurt maybe because of loss of connection, but it was more that he'd overplayed his hand... he was so convinced of his own superiority and power... Sheridan was a fulcrum point, a legitimate threat, but Londo was always a weakling he could manipulate... Don't make the mistake of assuming you need a psychic link to an outer evil to do horrific things...
Morden was a servant. Even if he'd wanted to, he couldn't have ordered those ships to leave. Londo was always going to have to use the nukes. Londo knew that. I think this whole scene wasn't really to get the Shadows to leave peacefully, which was never on the table. I think it was for the benefit of the guards and other Centauri. He wanted them to see him trying to be reasonable and Morden 'forcing' him to blow up the island.
By blowing up the Shadow ships, Londo would also kill his people who volunteered to stay behind to keep the Shadows from suspecting a plot. Londo wasn't giving the Shadows one last chance. He was giving his volunteers one last chance.
@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq No I think he survived as he cooperated from the beginning. Sheradin's wife was not killed, but implanted in a ship as an unwilling bio-processor, but removed when they learned who she was connected to.
You can tell that even though Londo knows what Morden did to Adira he would let the bastard go if it removed the Shadows/threat from Centuri Prime and spared them from the Vorlons. But you can also tell he's happy when Morden decides to play it the hard way.
Really? I didn't think he would let Morden go either way. The reason he said he would have preferred it if Morden cooperated was that blowing up the island also killed all the innocent Centauris who stayed behind to make it look like the island wasn't abandoned.
@@flamingspinach Nah. I don't think the Shadows would have allowed Morden to die. They do seem to value loyalty. If it meant the Shadows left peacefully, Londo would let Morden go. But I think he knew they weren't going to go for that.
@@flamingspinach Londo always loved his nation above all else, he wouldn't have put them at risk just for his revenge. But you can bet the moment Centauri Prime wasn't at stake, Morden would've learned just how hard it is to evade the leader of the Centauri.
I notice that detail as well. They were briefed well beforehand. Also not how he 2 on either side of Londo were the only ones carrying the big rifles. The guards on the hall side of the door had standard rifles, the guards escorting Mordin had pistols, but the guards next to Londo had the big rifles. Hmmmmm....
Sadly even if Morden and the Shadows did die, the Drakh made sure to get revenge on Londo. Londo still got the last laugh after years of being their puppet by engineering their downfall, but the mess cost even more lives.
"And speaking of you're associates....we must make sure we can talk privately." The guards slowly back away "Do not move." Gunfire. The guards move back into position, including the one's outside as if this stuff happens all the time. "I'll have to paint that over I suppose." This entire episode was a gem, I had been waiting for Morden to get his comeuppance for four seasons.
To be fair Londo gave him a choice to leave, and not many people will do that. If you see someone offering a choice to get out alive, then take it. Otherwise be careful, many people have sides that no one can figure out right until the end.
Even now this fantastic series stands the test of time: and why not? Marvelous scripts performed marvellously by actors at the top of their trade. I have seen some brilliant sci fi series over the years, but this is my favourite. The icing on the cake in this series was Vir waving at Morden's head - just as he had promised.
Londo Mollari has possibly the greatest character arc of everyone on that show ... and that's saying something. This scene was definitely his greatest moment, and one that we were all waiting for. Also ... shout out to the Centauri who "knew what was being asked of them". Gangsta!
I like to think that although Morden was a servant of the Shadows, his understanding of humans and humanoids effectively made him the boss of the specific unit he was part of.
The most bad ass scene in the entire show, Lando had some of the best, including the saddest when he dies and the Drakh symbiote forces him to kill G'kar.
My wife and I have been re-watching BABYLON 5 from the beginning the past couple of weeks, and we just got to this scene last night. This is my favorite Londo scene in the entire series, and it's a tremendous credit to both creator/writer Joe Straczynski and the actors, Ed Wasser and Peter Jurasik. It's amazing how well it all holds up even after nearly three decades! My only question: Assuming that the Shadows can only keep themselves cloaked while alive, why didn't we see their corpses on the floor after Londo's soldiers blasted hem?
I think like the vorlon, they've evolved to a certain point as first ones where they're not entirely physical. Look what humanity eventually became when they got their own encounter suits when the sun went nova.
Honestly the only issue I have with this scene is how easily the Shadows guarding Morden are killed as we were shown how hard it was to kill a Vorlan just one or two episodes ago and yet this one goes down in a matter of seconds after getting shot for a few seconds. But I'm willing to over look this BECAUSE THIS SCENE IS JUST AWESOME!!! :D
@@mobulis not to mention, vorlons are the protoss, the shadows are the zerg, a single shadow is not that hard to defeat (well, not easy, but individually they are not on the same level.)
JMS said that even the Minbari all-powerfull cruisers could be relativy easily destroyed at close range by the average earth warship during the minbari war if they got to fire a full barrage at them at close range.. the problem was managing to actually fire (and hit) at them as they were stealth ... but a full barrage of any warship at close range would kill anything if allowed to. Same goes with the shadows.. a full sustained PPG (or whatever the centauri use) barrage on an unarmored target the size of barelly a human would kill anything. The Shadows relied on stealth and being out of sight..not on being unvincible shielded tanks
A Vorlon could be harder to kill just because of the difference in species physicality: killing a mouse would be a lot easier than killing an elephant for example. He also mentioned waaaaayyy back in the usenet days that Sheridan's PPG was able to wound the Shadow he shot in Justin's chambers. He also clarified recently on twitter that Shadows don't actually wear encounter suits; what you see is them in the flesh, more or less. That said I'm not so sure the shadow shot here was actually killed. No body, unless its light-phasing abilities persist after death. Or it just kinda popped and left some debris we don't see as an audience, though Londo seems to be looking at something (but maybe he's just talking about weapons fire scorch marks or something.)
it is apparently the case that these "rifle" the guards used were far far more powerful than ordinary ones. But also remember that the SHadow encounter shells relied on phasing/cloaking to avoid being targeted at all.. When someone knows where to target they dont have anywhere near the toughness of the Vorlon suit. Also any particular defenses they normally used in a fight were not active, since they assumed he was just being summoned for a conference, not an assassination. Shields down, as it were 😁 The shadows as ancient as they are encountered the worst possible wild card here, and it's all thanks to Morden offing Adira.
I'm always amazed by this scene. The display of confidence and power in Londo does not disappoint. Now, years after watching the series, I think there are holes in the script. - How did the Shadows not identify Londo's plan? - Shadows are telepaths like Vorlons are. Didn't they think to read the thoughts of the Centauri involved in the plan? Didn't you think to read Londo's thoughts? Didn't they anticipate the betrayal? - Several telepaths comment in the series that they can hear the thoughts of people nearby passively. Shadows, who are much more powerful telepaths than the average population, should "hear" about the plan in advance. - How did the Shadows not perceive the plan from the point of view of those on the island?
not sure, but great power often comes with great hubris. i think the shadows didnt take the younger races too seriously and didnt feel threatened by them. i think they where so confident that it didnt cross their mind that someone could best them. and to be honest: londo is a master of powerplay and intrigues with years of experience in that in the royal politics. the centauri have telepaths around too and i think he had developed ways to get around such problems.
IIRC the Shadows were NOT telepaths, the Vorlons were. The Shadows had a vulnerability to telepathic attack, that's why the Vorlons edited the genome of younger races to create telepaths among them.
Simple answer. At no point is it implied that the Shadows were even slightly telepathic. Actually we can assume the opposite, since they are openly threatened and even stopped in their tracks by telepaths. That's why the Vorlons created them in the first place.
Hopefully, I too can one day be a planetary dictator, and trick out my Pretorian Guard with gold plated Tommy Guns. (I seriously love the Centari Guard Rifle with the handguard. Just about the only ever Sci-fi blaster that actually looks like a product of a different culture and not just a Chonky version of the Colonial Marine rifle)
It took squads of soldiers to kill Kash, just one Vorlon. And here they killed two shadows in just seconds. Shows how much more advanced the Centauri are than Earth.
The vorlons were individually much more powerful but as Kosh said, ‘there are so few of us’. They used bio ships and technology to amplify their numbers whereas the Shadows used others to do their work.
@@neilclark2245 No, it is implied the two Shadows died. They were caught off guard and hit with stronger weapons. Shadows were just too numerous to fight in comparison to the Vorlons.
I think it was that the Vorlons had become a form of energy which, although powerful, meant that they could no longer reproduce. The Shadows had kept their physical forms so they were less powerful, but could still produce more of themselves, all-be-it at a slower rate than the Younger Races.
@@ethenallen1388 I viewed the forms the Shadows had, was their version of an encounter suit. They were also energy beings just numerous in number and weaker and somehow once born, had to be put in their encounter suit to develop. It didn't make sense to me, the Shadows who were older, than the Vorlons stayed as physical forms. I theorized they were able to reproduce by using their biotech, then place the egg/ energy into the mantis looking suit. The drawback for being able to reproduce, was they were weaker.
Badass. Londo's probably going to live to regret this moment, but it sure is satisfying (don't tell me what happens; I'm watching Babylon 5 for the first time).
By now, I expect you know the answer. Only one character who Mr Morden ever asked "what do you want" and who told him, ever got exactly what he said that he wanted. Guess which one? (Spoiler) It was Vir.
After seeing how Vir reacted to Cartaggia's death a few episodes before I'd be very surprised if Londo had said a word of his plan about the Island of Selini to Vir.
My only beef with the scene is the idea that the doors would only need to be "painted over". Those were basically PPG miniguns, powerful enough to disintegrate Shadows (though it's far to say that they were likely taken by surprise). Otherwise, perfect.
The only things that confused me about this scene: 1) How did Londo figure out that Morden had 2 Shadow agents with him? 2) How did he figure out what kind of weapons could kill a Shadow?
I THINK (I haven't read the novel/tie in about the Icarus landing on Za'ha;'dum) but apparently that medallion is some sort of memento of Morden's wife and child, who were apparently 'lost' in a jumpgate accident (it supposedly kept their life essence trapped). The Shadows gave Morden the offer of freeing them/releasing them to death, IF he threw in with them. So it has a sort of emotional value to him==but I might be wrong.
the book about Z'hadum actually explains that pendant as a special love stone of some psychic/musical nature, and it was something tied to his now dead wife. Basically in his moment of shock and grief and fear he sort of went fetal position by clutching at it
I do wonder about how easily these Shadows are killed with a couple of PPGs, given how hard it was for the humans to kill a Vorlon, and how easily the Shadows killed a Vorlon. Maybe it's like a rock-scissors-paper situation. Shadow beats Vorlon, Vorlon beats gun, gun beats Shadow.
The Shadows don't seem to be as incorporeal as the Vorlons are, which is probably why they are more vulnerable to conventional weapons. The Shadows appear to be corporeal beings using some sort of stealth or phase shifting tech, where as the Vorlons live as pure energy. The Shadows also knew the Vorlons intimately from millions of years of cohabitation and once being friends before their ideological falling out, so they would know how the Vorlons function and what their vulnerabilities are. The Shadows coming for Kosh knew exactly what they were doing and how to go about it. If you delve a bit deeper the physical differences between the Shadows and Vorlons seems tied to their methods during their wars as well. The Vorlons favored telepaths and growing the mental possibilities of those they changed/manipulated to become weapons and soldiers, their ultimate weapon was a telepathic one, it is also confirmed that the path to becoming an energy being is achievable via telepath powers (Ironheart). The Shadows instead focused more on physicality, they implemented machines into people and molded the flesh, they saw telepaths as the ultimate threat and tried to wipe them out. The Shadows ultimate weapon was a viral attack attacking the body. The Shadows may have been more vulnerable to guns than Vorlons, but maybe their physical form left them less vulnerable to Vorlons than if they had tried to match them as beings of energy and mental might. Or it might be that neither side thought direct confrontation was likely, and thus they stayed corporeal out of a distaste for the path of the Vorlons and all aspects of it. Interesting side note is that Lorien was capable of existing as both an energy being and a physical being and could change between them at will. We never see a Vorlon able to take physical form, and even their projection of divinity was confirmed to be a result of manipulating the younger races to see that, rather than actually being that. The only other time we apparently see an energy being capable of taking physical form is the guy 1 million years in the future when Sol goes supernova, and he is supposed to be the future of a combined Human/Minbari race and their developments, who would be the ones replacing the Vorlons and Shadows both in shepherding the new young races.
"AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MIIIIIIIIIIIISTER MOOOOOORDEN!"
Londo was always the king of theatrics.
Peter Jurasik would practice for his scenes by taking several minutes repeating: "Aaaaaaaahhhh, Mr. Garibaliiii!" to get himself into the part.
goooood gooood.... (no one delivers a "good" like londo)
@@Juidodin He really delivers the goods.
I once worked with a Mr Morden. I couldn’t resist always greeting him with “Ahhhhh Mr Morden”.. He eventually asked me why I did it. I explained about Londo, and Babylon 5 in general. He then watched the whole series, and told me he laughed when it came to that scene.. It’s my favourite in the whole Babylon 5 story arc.. 🙂
that's an awesome story. I think we have all wished that we could meet some one with a name of " Mr Morden"
The fact that he watched the whole thing tells me he liked it :)
Did you force your voice to imitate Peter Jurasik accent? 😁 It is indeed a dream of every B5 fan to meet a Mr Morden, provided he does not work for any space Mordor company 💀
@@JSheridanEntilZhaI always wondered why they didn't arrange it so that all the other Centauri didn't use the same accent.
@@basilmcdonnell9807Lord Refa had a similar accent to Londo.
This led to the greatest scene of the entire series, movies, and spin-offs… Vir waving at Morten’s piked head.
👋😊
we waited what? 3 seasons for that? XD
One of the best call backs in all of sci fi.
@charlesvanzee4879 well said sir 👏 👍
On first viewing, sure. Every subsequent viewing the scene where Vir makes his wish to Mr Morden is the one that does the heavy lifting.
"So what are you going to do, Mollari, blow up the island?"
- man whose island was blown up
"You are insane."
"On any other day, Mr. Morden, you would be wrong. Today, today is a very different day. One last time: remove your ships."
I love Morden's reaction to seeing the detonator. All the smuggness and confidence is gone in that moment.
" SURPRISE, Mr. Morden. Just don't *lose your head* har - har - hardy - har - har..... ".
"I will have to have that painted over i suppose"....is the cherry on top of a superb scene
Londo Mollari is one of the greatest sci-fi characters of all time. And I'd have to split the credit for that 50-50 between creator/writer J. Michael Straczynksi and actor Peter Jurasik. A schemer, an opportunist, a hedonist ... but above all else: a patriot. Very compelling stuff.
He's wonderfully flawed, balances of extremes but never average and for all his ambition and hedonism really quite likable.
He and G'Kar played by the late Andreas Katsulas were really a great combination and the evolution of their characters was bringing the series forward. Not as we see in many other shows where the characters always follow the same pattern week after week except when you get to the final episode where they suddenly evolve.
I love when Londo tells Vir that he has a gift for him & it's Morden's head on a pike in the courtyard, Vir goes out & waves at his head. Vir has got major nads of steel.
Londo was the guy who would act all big n bad but would quietly slip you a gun if you were going to be in a position to help him
@@matthewcaughey8898 He & DS9's Quark would very likely be best buds, because they had a LOT in common.
"So what are you going to do Molari, blow up the island?"
It was this scene that reminded me of a truism in the Babylon 5 universe.
Never play poker with a Centauri.
Looks like he fell victim to one of the classic blunders.
I guess it's because they use their penis to cheat isn't it? For Londo we know it for sure.
Yes, they always have a secret...em...hand.. one might not expect.
Yeah, because they cheat, and I don't want to see his secondary male attributes.
Especially if you can't see below the table.
I love the detail of the guards outside the doors resuming their posts 1:30 after the Shadows were gunned down.
"they knew what was being asked of them"
. . . . ..
"Your ships are very impressive in the air... and in space...." Just one of many great B5 quotes. :)
Ed Wasser's line was rather lame.... those Capital ships could sense approachig vessels a complete solar system away, not just mere miles away.. LOL
" Vengeance is mine " - the Book of Londo.
@@ZakhadWOW I think Londo had fun with messing with Morden. Cat traps mouse.
@ZakhadWOW (1) Atmosphere absorbs signals which limits range. (2) Because the planet is curved, the Shadow ships cannot see beyond the horizon… which is only 3-6 miles if the attacking Centauri ships fly low. This tactic is used by jets & missiles to hide from radar.
(3) Morden was obviously frightened seeing the First Ones who are all-powerful suddenly get destroyed. I would not expect coherency from him
.
"Oh, Mr. Morden. I haven't even started with you yet" I bet Morden's last few hours of life were no tea party.
I think something along the lines of eviscerated and then beheaded
The Centauri were like the Roman Empire in that they made torture a art form.
@@SgtSplatter782
With a little of twisted imagination, everyone can be an artist.
Pick a politician of your choice and have fun in your mind.
@@SgtSplatter782 How can a Republic have an emperor?
@@Darqshadow Much much worse than a simple evisceration. Vivisection starts with hammering a blade the length of the sternum and spreading the rib cage. Then organs are removed one by one from the least important to the heart. Arteries are sealed to prevent premature death from blood loss. The lungs are left in until the end so the victim can still scream. Oh and all of this happens while the victim is fully conscious and without anything to dull the pain.
Credit to Londo, he always gives his enemies one last chance to back down before he completely destroys them.
In this case it was more in the interests of not having to sacrifice the people left on the island but yes.
@@zephyr8072 He seemed like he would've cheerfully strangled Morden bare - handedly.
@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq Yes, but Londo always put his people and his world first. If Morden had taken the ships and left that would've been the end of it.
He likely knew that he wouldn't. But he had to try.
@@zephyr8072 Morden was *way, WAY* overconfident, & he made a TRULY AWFUL, unfortunate blunder - Underestimating Londo. Londo had ceased being a joke ambassador assigned to B5 *as a joke* . He was a truly dangerous man when he had proper motivation.
@@zephyr8072 To be fair, you shouldn't rely on the good will of a bad actor. Always be prepared for them to turn things ugly.
Possibly one of the best scenes of the whole show, with Peter Jurasik's wonderful portrayal of Londo Mollari. B5 remains a severely underrated show IMHO. The character story arcs were among the best in sci-fi.
Londo has the saddest plot arc in the series.
He starts off as a deplorable monster, but when he meets real monsters, he flinches, and tries to stop what is already too late to stop.
After finally making amends, he learns the harsh truth, that the Drakh are controlling the Centauri emperors with parasites.
Londo has to willingly accept this fate or watch Centauri burn.
It's so sad when he tells Sheridan that they are friends, and to remember that, no matter what happens. He knows what will happen, and that he will bear the hatred of trillions before he dies.
I agree with this with one exception. Londo started as a joke. He was comedy relief. Then he went on to become the most tragic character of the whole series. All he wanted to do is help his people and wound up almost destroying them.
@@jeffhyche9839 "All he wanted to do is help his people and wound up almost destroying them."
Not true in my opinion. At the beginning he wanted power and he did what he could to obtain it. There wasnt any ulterior motiv to it. That was what drew the shadows to him in the first place. That changed step by step when he started to realize, what price he and others had to pay for his association with the shadows. And once he was fully aware of that, there was no turning back for him anymore.
Londo could have taken a far different path. It probably wouldn't have changed anything but he probably would have born a far different fate. Also Londo had a little voice on his shoulder telling him all the things he was doing wrong and offering him better choices. That voice's name was Vir. So yeah, Londo really has no excuse. That being said he DID technically do all 3 things Emperor Turhan's wife told him to do to avoid eternal damnation so maybe he did alter his fate, at least in a small tiny way?
@@blastermasterguy
I can't find any faults in your logic.
It is strange the Drakh along with the other Shadow servants don't join forces. It was the Shadows fighting in the previous wars against the other First Ones.
All these years later, I just now noticed that the island looks a lot like Sicily and is called Selene, on a planet with a very roman/italian styled civilization.
that's a excellent observation
Just finished the show for the first time and this has to be an absolute all-timer. What an incredible arc for Londo.
I finished it 2 years ago and it honestly made me a better person.
Best...scifi...show...ever!
Watched it back in 1990s. I watch the entire show again every few years. Still amazing. Still epic.
@@catacomber8 it really holds up because even though the special effects are dated it doesn't effect your enjoyment of the show because yeah it's a sci-fi show but the messages it putting out into the world is amazing no matter the genre.
I love this scene so much. Londo at max Power Level
I do have to wonder about Mordin’s visceral reaction to the bombing. He’s not just some puppet or willing collaborator, he acted as if his people, as in his own species, were the ones getting blown up. Not only that, but it looked like he was in actual pain, if only limited. I wonder just how deeply he had become tied to the shadows.
I always thought that he could no longer hear their voices, just by the way has held the amulet. and this was the first time he was truly alone.
I dont think that at that point there was much, if anything, left of the original person, save for the memories. Iirc the shadows basically molded his mind as they needed it for him to become the perfect puppet, when the captured the transport he was on.
Jeanne Cavelos' technomage trilogy has it where he has an implant or something that keeps him in contact with the Shadows and, presumably, the abrupt cutting of the connection is what struck him.
His body is human, but there is a Shadow inside of him. He also shares a psychic connection to all the other Shadows.
I got the impression that like the middleman, Morden was a true believer in the shadows philosophy... unlike Anna...
He was hurt maybe because of loss of connection, but it was more that he'd overplayed his hand... he was so convinced of his own superiority and power...
Sheridan was a fulcrum point, a legitimate threat, but Londo was always a weakling he could manipulate...
Don't make the mistake of assuming you need a psychic link to an outer evil to do horrific things...
Morden was a servant. Even if he'd wanted to, he couldn't have ordered those ships to leave. Londo was always going to have to use the nukes. Londo knew that. I think this whole scene wasn't really to get the Shadows to leave peacefully, which was never on the table. I think it was for the benefit of the guards and other Centauri. He wanted them to see him trying to be reasonable and Morden 'forcing' him to blow up the island.
He was the mouthpiece... the ambassador...
When Morden said no, it was the shadows on the Island saying no...
By blowing up the Shadow ships, Londo would also kill his people who volunteered to stay behind to keep the Shadows from suspecting a plot. Londo wasn't giving the Shadows one last chance. He was giving his volunteers one last chance.
@@GemmaHentsch Wasn't Morden *dead then reanimated by the Shadows ? Sheridan's wife was, IIRC.
@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq No I think he survived as he cooperated from the beginning. Sheradin's wife was not killed, but implanted in a ship as an unwilling bio-processor, but removed when they learned who she was connected to.
Londo is straight gangsta here. I love it.
You can tell that even though Londo knows what Morden did to Adira he would let the bastard go if it removed the Shadows/threat from Centuri Prime and spared them from the Vorlons. But you can also tell he's happy when Morden decides to play it the hard way.
Really? I didn't think he would let Morden go either way. The reason he said he would have preferred it if Morden cooperated was that blowing up the island also killed all the innocent Centauris who stayed behind to make it look like the island wasn't abandoned.
@@flamingspinach Nah. I don't think the Shadows would have allowed Morden to die. They do seem to value loyalty. If it meant the Shadows left peacefully, Londo would let Morden go. But I think he knew they weren't going to go for that.
@@kyrozudesoya1829 That's true, good point.
@@flamingspinach Londo always loved his nation above all else, he wouldn't have put them at risk just for his revenge. But you can bet the moment Centauri Prime wasn't at stake, Morden would've learned just how hard it is to evade the leader of the Centauri.
I love how all the guards just silently back away from Morden. Yeah, you're done for at that point.
I notice that detail as well. They were briefed well beforehand. Also not how he 2 on either side of Londo were the only ones carrying the big rifles. The guards on the hall side of the door had standard rifles, the guards escorting Mordin had pistols, but the guards next to Londo had the big rifles. Hmmmmm....
2:23 I love the satisfaction and Londos face after seeing Mr. Morden panic.
One more great actor from a really great series.
Agreed. This series had over a dozen fantastic actors in it. Small wonder that Babylon 5 has been considered "lightening in a bottle."
Londo goes beast mode on the Shadows.
For a show with many, many great moments, this is number two in my book. Number one? Mr Morden giving Vir what he wanted, finally.
Morden apparently saw it, he appeared in the episode " Day of the Dead " as a ghost.
Sadly even if Morden and the Shadows did die, the Drakh made sure to get revenge on Londo. Londo still got the last laugh after years of being their puppet by engineering their downfall, but the mess cost even more lives.
But I read he prepared for that, and his death was a trigger to Centauri army to exterminate Drakh.
@@TheGoodLuc Exactly why I said Londo still got the last laugh, the magnificent bastard!
@@killingragethrowback Yes, he was!
@@TheGoodLuc And Vir was the one who made it happen.
A lot of people underestimate Vir. Some of them even survive the experience.
@@Firehawk376 And the prophesy where Vir would sit the throne after Londo came to pass.
Londo's finest moment in the entire series, as far as I'm concern.
"And speaking of you're associates....we must make sure we can talk privately."
The guards slowly back away
"Do not move."
Gunfire.
The guards move back into position, including the one's outside as if this stuff happens all the time.
"I'll have to paint that over I suppose."
This entire episode was a gem, I had been waiting for Morden to get his comeuppance for four seasons.
He was the best character loved him. The series had so many twists and turns. I can't believe they didn't make more series!!!
Londo finally being a leader of decision rather than a puppet … yay
"ARRRRRrRrRrH Mr. Morden" was the moment everybody knows he is f..d
To be fair Londo gave him a choice to leave, and not many people will do that. If you see someone offering a choice to get out alive, then take it. Otherwise be careful, many people have sides that no one can figure out right until the end.
Even now this fantastic series stands the test of time: and why not? Marvelous scripts performed marvellously by actors at the top of their trade. I have seen some brilliant sci fi series over the years, but this is my favourite. The icing on the cake in this series was Vir waving at Morden's head - just as he had promised.
Villain or hero it didn't matter. Loved Londo.
Londo’s greatest moment.
this actor, this character was too good for this show.
what a performance
Epic.
Oh, the memories this excites in me.
🥰
An acting master class on a par with an oscar winner in my view.
This still gives me chills. hands down, best scifi show ever made
Londo Mollari has possibly the greatest character arc of everyone on that show ... and that's saying something. This scene was definitely his greatest moment, and one that we were all waiting for. Also ... shout out to the Centauri who "knew what was being asked of them". Gangsta!
Nice Flash Gordon touch to the Centauri royal guard rifles
i love this very small grin of londo when he pushes the trigger that he gives morden.
Londo to the shadows on the use of nukes " How many times must we teach you this lesson old man?"
I like to think that although Morden was a servant of the Shadows, his understanding of humans and humanoids effectively made him the boss of the specific unit he was part of.
Sad that this Kind of Story writing is long gone
Unfortunately, JMS can't write everything
Love this scene. Thankyou.
Just one season earlier, Londo met Morden in a corridor in B-5 and heard the Associates whisper. Paid off here. 3:32
Oh God, Londo was the GOAT! That show left such an impression on me I have no desire to see any remakes. Well, we'll see....
"Using a nuclear weapons is authorised but give me a detonator" do you recognise any quote before Morden arrested?
Seasons 1 - 4 of Babylon 5 are some of the best sci-fi ever on TV or movies.
Excellent scene. Londo on full beast mode
You mean he went Vorlon on them.
@@viix3815 He went Captain Sheridan on them.
The look on Morden's face after the explosion is so well done. That is a man who just realized, in no uncertain terms, that he is about to die.
This scene gets me every time, I absolutely love it. (Too bad there's no emoji for Vir's wave!)
👋
@@sonicguyver7445 😆 if only it had a Centauri hair do!
The most bad ass scene in the entire show, Lando had some of the best, including the saddest when he dies and the Drakh symbiote forces him to kill G'kar.
28 Shadows and a Mr. Morden disliked this video.
I expected as much
My wife and I have been re-watching BABYLON 5 from the beginning the past couple of weeks, and we just got to this scene last night. This is my favorite Londo scene in the entire series, and it's a tremendous credit to both creator/writer Joe Straczynski and the actors, Ed Wasser and Peter Jurasik. It's amazing how well it all holds up even after nearly three decades!
My only question: Assuming that the Shadows can only keep themselves cloaked while alive, why didn't we see their corpses on the floor after Londo's soldiers blasted hem?
Disintegration, as a safeguard they obliterate themselves if captured or killed. Shadows believe in the goal not the individual.
I think like the vorlon, they've evolved to a certain point as first ones where they're not entirely physical.
Look what humanity eventually became when they got their own encounter suits when the sun went nova.
I would suggest the blasters left notihing to look at after that volley.
The Shadows are like Doctor Who's Weeping Angels.
The vorlons are shown in life and death to be a very visible form of light. The shadows are mainly seen in the infrared. They must die that way also.
Morden: So what are you going to do, blow up the island?
Lando: *blows up island*
Morden: 😮
Honestly the only issue I have with this scene is how easily the Shadows guarding Morden are killed as we were shown how hard it was to kill a Vorlan just one or two episodes ago and yet this one goes down in a matter of seconds after getting shot for a few seconds.
But I'm willing to over look this BECAUSE THIS SCENE IS JUST AWESOME!!! :D
The vorlons were basically wearing power armor, shadows weren't
@@mobulis not to mention, vorlons are the protoss, the shadows are the zerg, a single shadow is not that hard to defeat (well, not easy, but individually they are not on the same level.)
JMS said that even the Minbari all-powerfull cruisers could be relativy easily destroyed at close range by the average earth warship during the minbari war if they got to fire a full barrage at them at close range.. the problem was managing to actually fire (and hit) at them as they were stealth ... but a full barrage of any warship at close range would kill anything if allowed to.
Same goes with the shadows.. a full sustained PPG (or whatever the centauri use) barrage on an unarmored target the size of barelly a human would kill anything. The Shadows relied on stealth and being out of sight..not on being unvincible shielded tanks
A Vorlon could be harder to kill just because of the difference in species physicality: killing a mouse would be a lot easier than killing an elephant for example. He also mentioned waaaaayyy back in the usenet days that Sheridan's PPG was able to wound the Shadow he shot in Justin's chambers. He also clarified recently on twitter that Shadows don't actually wear encounter suits; what you see is them in the flesh, more or less.
That said I'm not so sure the shadow shot here was actually killed. No body, unless its light-phasing abilities persist after death. Or it just kinda popped and left some debris we don't see as an audience, though Londo seems to be looking at something (but maybe he's just talking about weapons fire scorch marks or something.)
it is apparently the case that these "rifle" the guards used were far far more powerful than ordinary ones. But also remember that the SHadow encounter shells relied on phasing/cloaking to avoid being targeted at all.. When someone knows where to target they dont have anywhere near the toughness of the Vorlon suit. Also any particular defenses they normally used in a fight were not active, since they assumed he was just being summoned for a conference, not an assassination. Shields down, as it were 😁 The shadows as ancient as they are encountered the worst possible wild card here, and it's all thanks to Morden offing Adira.
I'm always amazed by this scene. The display of confidence and power in Londo does not disappoint.
Now, years after watching the series, I think there are holes in the script.
- How did the Shadows not identify Londo's plan?
- Shadows are telepaths like Vorlons are. Didn't they think to read the thoughts of the Centauri involved in the plan? Didn't you think to read Londo's thoughts? Didn't they anticipate the betrayal?
- Several telepaths comment in the series that they can hear the thoughts of people nearby passively. Shadows, who are much more powerful telepaths than the average population, should "hear" about the plan in advance.
- How did the Shadows not perceive the plan from the point of view of those on the island?
not sure, but great power often comes with great hubris. i think the shadows didnt take the younger races too seriously and didnt feel threatened by them. i think they where so confident that it didnt cross their mind that someone could best them. and to be honest: londo is a master of powerplay and intrigues with years of experience in that in the royal politics. the centauri have telepaths around too and i think he had developed ways to get around such problems.
IIRC the Shadows were NOT telepaths, the Vorlons were. The Shadows had a vulnerability to telepathic attack, that's why the Vorlons edited the genome of younger races to create telepaths among them.
Plot armor. Sometimes you just gotta roll with it and look the other way. 🤣🤣🤣
The Centauri used Thought Suppressors on the people living on the Island so the Shadows couldn’t detect their thoughts.
Simple answer. At no point is it implied that the Shadows were even slightly telepathic. Actually we can assume the opposite, since they are openly threatened and even stopped in their tracks by telepaths. That's why the Vorlons created them in the first place.
Best scifi show ever.
i am a fan of Londo
I guess we shall have to have that painted over
The shadows' associates did make Centauri pay.
Hopefully, I too can one day be a planetary dictator, and trick out my Pretorian Guard with gold plated Tommy Guns.
(I seriously love the Centari Guard Rifle with the handguard. Just about the only ever Sci-fi blaster that actually looks like a product of a different culture and not just a Chonky version of the Colonial Marine rifle)
It took squads of soldiers to kill Kash, just one Vorlon. And here they killed two shadows in just seconds. Shows how much more advanced the Centauri are than Earth.
The vorlons were individually much more powerful but as Kosh said, ‘there are so few of us’.
They used bio ships and technology to amplify their numbers whereas the Shadows used others to do their work.
I don't think they killed them, it looked to me like the energy bolts forced them to withdraw, leaving Morden alone
@@neilclark2245 No, it is implied the two Shadows died. They were caught off guard and hit with stronger weapons. Shadows were just too numerous to fight in comparison to the Vorlons.
I think it was that the Vorlons had become a form of energy which, although powerful, meant that they could no longer reproduce. The Shadows had kept their physical forms so they were less powerful, but could still produce more of themselves, all-be-it at a slower rate than the Younger Races.
@@ethenallen1388 I viewed the forms the Shadows had, was their version of an encounter suit. They were also energy beings just numerous in number and weaker and somehow once born, had to be put in their encounter suit to develop.
It didn't make sense to me, the Shadows who were older, than the Vorlons stayed as physical forms. I theorized they were able to reproduce by using their biotech, then place the egg/ energy into the mantis looking suit. The drawback for being able to reproduce, was they were weaker.
What are you going to do eh, blow up the island, actually, now that you mention it
Badass. Londo's probably going to live to regret this moment, but it sure is satisfying (don't tell me what happens; I'm watching Babylon 5 for the first time).
By now, I expect you know the answer.
Only one character who Mr Morden ever asked "what do you want" and who told him, ever got exactly what he said that he wanted. Guess which one?
(Spoiler)
It was Vir.
After seeing how Vir reacted to Cartaggia's death a few episodes before I'd be very surprised if Londo had said a word of his plan about the Island of Selini to Vir.
I remember this.
This might be my favorite Londo scene. He was a badass!!!
I always loved Londo and glad in the end he turned out to be so chaotic good!
The BEST strategy move to outdo the shadows.
I guess I'll have to have that painted over, I suppose.
My only beef with the scene is the idea that the doors would only need to be "painted over". Those were basically PPG miniguns, powerful enough to disintegrate Shadows (though it's far to say that they were likely taken by surprise). Otherwise, perfect.
Over the past quite a few years, I have probably watched this scene 150 times haha
Haha let's pretend I haven't been able to recite all the lines of both characters since about the year 2000!
I used to chat with Ed Wasser when he was on Twitter frequently. Nice guy, actually!
why wouldn't he be
@@LordTalax how's this for B5 Trivia: Actor Wortham Krimmer (AKA: the Mad Emperor Cartagia) is now a lawyer in Chicago.
Londo made the only move he had. Billions of lives vs a few on an island. It wasn't the shadows that were the threat, but the Vorlon planet killer.
2:14 Never cross a man with nothing left to lose.
Mr. Morden: “What do you want?”
The only things that confused me about this scene:
1) How did Londo figure out that Morden had 2 Shadow agents with him?
2) How did he figure out what kind of weapons could kill a Shadow?
We can do this the easy way, the hard way, or the Centauri way.
Always thought Morden clutching that necklace thing was sending an "I'm Screwed" to the Shadows, and their allies.
I THINK (I haven't read the novel/tie in about the Icarus landing on Za'ha;'dum) but apparently that medallion is some sort of memento of Morden's wife and child, who were apparently 'lost' in a jumpgate accident (it supposedly kept their life essence trapped). The Shadows gave Morden the offer of freeing them/releasing them to death, IF he threw in with them. So it has a sort of emotional value to him==but I might be wrong.
the book about Z'hadum actually explains that pendant as a special love stone of some psychic/musical nature, and it was something tied to his now dead wife. Basically in his moment of shock and grief and fear he sort of went fetal position by clutching at it
@@ZakhadWOW Thanks; I vaguely remember it had 'something' to do with his dead wife and child.
Now that you mention it ...
I remember watching this clip out of context before watching the show and thought it was londo's turn to the dark side.
That's balls!!!
"AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MISSSSTER MORRRDEN !"
The perfect example of a bully with no one left to hide behind.
I've always liked Mordens "I'm just an average Centauri dude don't mind me" haircut.
U should know something wrong when ppl standing next to you step back 😂
It's definitely a WTF moment
What are you going to do... blow up the island.
Well... now that you mention it.
Why did I never get into the show this is good.
it took me a while as well. my sister convinced me to get back in to it when season 2 came out.
I meant to say absolutely excellent 👌
And this move (the blowing up the island with nukes) comes back to haunt him.
best moment for londo
Wow Shadows are much easier to kill then Vorlons
I do wonder about how easily these Shadows are killed with a couple of PPGs, given how hard it was for the humans to kill a Vorlon, and how easily the Shadows killed a Vorlon. Maybe it's like a rock-scissors-paper situation. Shadow beats Vorlon, Vorlon beats gun, gun beats Shadow.
Maybe it's because they were caught off guard.
When they killed the new Kosh he knew they were coming to get him.
That the strange thing about the Shadows, given their philosophy of evolution through warfare, one would think they would be a lot harder to kill.
The Shadows don't seem to be as incorporeal as the Vorlons are, which is probably why they are more vulnerable to conventional weapons. The Shadows appear to be corporeal beings using some sort of stealth or phase shifting tech, where as the Vorlons live as pure energy.
The Shadows also knew the Vorlons intimately from millions of years of cohabitation and once being friends before their ideological falling out, so they would know how the Vorlons function and what their vulnerabilities are. The Shadows coming for Kosh knew exactly what they were doing and how to go about it.
If you delve a bit deeper the physical differences between the Shadows and Vorlons seems tied to their methods during their wars as well. The Vorlons favored telepaths and growing the mental possibilities of those they changed/manipulated to become weapons and soldiers, their ultimate weapon was a telepathic one, it is also confirmed that the path to becoming an energy being is achievable via telepath powers (Ironheart). The Shadows instead focused more on physicality, they implemented machines into people and molded the flesh, they saw telepaths as the ultimate threat and tried to wipe them out. The Shadows ultimate weapon was a viral attack attacking the body.
The Shadows may have been more vulnerable to guns than Vorlons, but maybe their physical form left them less vulnerable to Vorlons than if they had tried to match them as beings of energy and mental might. Or it might be that neither side thought direct confrontation was likely, and thus they stayed corporeal out of a distaste for the path of the Vorlons and all aspects of it.
Interesting side note is that Lorien was capable of existing as both an energy being and a physical being and could change between them at will. We never see a Vorlon able to take physical form, and even their projection of divinity was confirmed to be a result of manipulating the younger races to see that, rather than actually being that. The only other time we apparently see an energy being capable of taking physical form is the guy 1 million years in the future when Sol goes supernova, and he is supposed to be the future of a combined Human/Minbari race and their developments, who would be the ones replacing the Vorlons and Shadows both in shepherding the new young races.
@@NATIK001 Good Analysis! I knew there had to be some logic as to why the shadow bodyguards died so easily.
Londo sounds like a B movie vampire. 😂