This is a terrific episode. Not only is it a true horror, but Michael McKean's performance is absolutely incredible. And Janeway's final line is every bit as chilling as the tortures that Fear was subjecting his victims to.
I'm surprised to learn that so many people dislike this episode. I agree with you; it's a very solid instalment - especially this early in the run - if a bit odd.
I asked on Twitter if The Thaw was a particularly hated episode, expecting it to go one way or the other. I'd say it was pretty split: either people love it or people really hate it.
The episode Fear starts off little confusing, but once we know people subconscious minds were trapped inside simulation it became extremely interesting. And the ending bone chilling last words by Captain Janeway
Before Chuck, there was the Clown. Seriously, McKean was legendary in this episode. Before this, I had mainly thought of him as the father from "That Darn Cat" in 1997. This episode, along with "Better Call Saul," showed me that he genuinely is one of the best actors of all time.
Of all the weird episodes of star trek, and there are a lot of weird episodes in star trek this one sticks the landing better than any other. McKeen has to be one of the best character actors ever. From Laverne and shirley to better call saul, the guy has over 250 acting credits to his name.
I wanted this episode to have more horror, less “Allemaraine!” That being said, the hints of circus music reminds me of this creepy anti-drug PSA from the 90s with a kid hanging from some puppet strings. But the fundamental problem with this episode is the Tuvok Quiz Time issue. After “The Phage”, “Prototype”, and all the dealings with the Cardassians, you’d think the Maquis members would just mutiny and shove Janeway out an airlock.
The Thaw seems to end up on every "best episode" list and every 'worst episode" list. I blame Harry Kim. I never liked him for even a moment on the show. So, I really loved this episode. ESPECIALLY Janeway's "I know ..." at the end. Good stuff. Thanks for making this video !
As someone who watched voyager on the Fox midnight airings growing up, this episode was almost never on. I really like it, but imagine how differently it would have resolved if this took place during the 7 years.
Fun fact, Tim Curry, the evil clown from Stephen King's original IT, is deathly afraid of clowns. How he managed to do the role, I have no idea. They say part of the contract was no mirrors or reflective surfaces and apparently a makeup artist had a compact with a mirror and Tim saw his reflection with the clown make up on and she was almost fired for it. Not sure on behest of Tim or to appease Tim by the director or producer.
I've always really liked this one partly because I'm a fan of Michael Mckean and he gives a great creepy performance here as the clown. As Janelle pointed out the crew are really, really stupid for plugging themselves into the pods in the first place, SG1 had a similar episode called the Gamekeeper; but in that episode SG1 gets sucked into the simulation against their will which would have been a better solution than Tuvok being inexplicably dumb. I also wish the episode leaned more into the ways that the clown can screw with your perspective, turning Harry into an old man and a baby really showed the extent of what he could do; but then after that the episode just contents itself with the clown throwing people into a guillotine which is rather dull in comparison. Still a fun episode and the ending is great.
Gamekeeper with Dwight Schultz! It's been awhile since I've seen the episode, but a lot of SG-1 episodes usually happen because Daniel touched something he shouldn't have (heck, I remember in another episode, Jack basically said "We're leaving right now. Don't touch anything" and the first thing Daniel did was grab EVERYTHING he could. 😆) Voyager had no such excuse: it was just Tuvok's terrible idea.
As for "The Thaw" I actually agree that it's one of the better episodes of the show. Espieally around season 2. The color scheme in the Clown's domain feels right at home with TOS in terms of camp and the premise is basically "what would happen if we took the Matix and Stephen King's IT and blended those concepts together?" 🤡 Just a fun time all around and that badass moment at the end with Captain Janeway is just icing on the cake.
You calling him Tuuuuv is the greatest thing to happen to me all week. 😂 It's honestly been so long since I watched it I don't remember much about the details past the "I knooooow!" scene. Voyager was the first TNG era Trek I never finished. And I've tried three times. It's just so predictable that I can't get into it. honestly if it weren't for the Wizard of Waz and SF Debris I'd probably have forgotten the show entirely by now. But I do love a good review of anything pre 2009 Trek so keep up the ace work sparky.
The Wizard of Waz.... now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time... That was a nickname I had on Twitter for a little while. 😁 I really need to start calling him Tuv more often. 😆
I thought it was a very good episode. Michael McKean did a wonderful job. It would be terrifying to have your life in the hands of such a cruel creature that delighted in your nightmares. It was so satisfying to see him become the recipient of his own fear.
This is probably the closest Michael McKean will come to playing the Joker. I know, he technically did in that one episode of The New Batman Adventures, but it was the goofy silver age Joker for just a few minutes. The only major flaw with this story is that the whole planet seems to just have 3 survivors. You'd think it would be like Metroid Prime 2 where there are pods everywhere, holding anywhere from thousands to millions of individuals. Even if we assume the pods are not networked & only whatever is connected to the core is in that simulation, 5 people are not enough for a 15-year stay, even so a scan that got this pod setup should have picked up many more. But that's not so much a Voyager problem as it is a TV problem in general, because the casting or even just the SFX or just the time to explain all that eats up resources.
The Thaw was basically a re-hash of the Twilight Zone episode "Its A GOOD Life" with Clown as the Billy Mumy character. It would have made a reasonable Dr Who story, for the Tom Baker Doctor.
Ultimately is Janeway's decision. All Tuvok did was suggest. The Captain or who ever is the highest ranking officer at the time, has to maul them over and choose the best one.
please tell me having Michael McKean & Robert Picardo face off is as awesome as it sounds... I get that plots have to advance & sometimes that means characters doing stupid things (let's stick our brains in an unknown computer that killed two people - for science!!) & I can usually ignore it for the sake of plot...but not when it feels like the writers are insulting you. Of all the people to suggest it, why Tuvok? Pretty much anyone else in that briefing you could handwave an excuse based on some character flaw but the cautious logical-above-all guy? Come on.
Oh, it really was. I didn't want to include too many clips, but Robert Picardo's deadpan responses contrast well with Michael McKean's comical menacing performance. Agreed about Tuvok. I could accept maybe Harry Kim suggesting it and volunteering because he's so sure it'll work, but Tuvok being like "Let's ask them by sending two people into the computer (but leave me out of it)" is a little hard to buy.
I remember this episode when it aired originally, ya that old, and it was very unique for the time….. I personally think it is one of my favorites but it could be nostalgia and I “may” be biased
I barely remember seeing this one, and the crazy clowns weren't the reason why (huge Joker fan BTW) but it's a forgettable episode at least for me. Honestly most of the previous Seven of Nine episodes I've forgotten about for, um reasons. Now if I only had H&I to check some of these Voyager episodes out. I didn't hate Voyager, but the reliance on techno babble caused me to skip the last season, except for the finale, which I liked. Great video as always!
It really is a shame H&I isn't in every area that MeTV is in considering they're sister stations. You'd probably really enjoy it. Glad you enjoyed the video!
VOY The Chute, VOY Time and Again and DS9 The Sound of Her Voice, are episodes I would like to see you cover, if you would be so kind. Kim and Paris cement their relationship from The Chute episode. Time and Again and The Sound of Her Voice... Without the techno-bable, I have no idea what is going on. Both have to do with time dilation or time travel or something or other.
What if Tuvok, instead of 'volunteering' Harry to go into the system, what if Tuvok had gone in (with, or without, B'Elanna...or, perhaps with an unknown red...um, yellow shirt, from Engineering)? How different an episode is it, then? What does The Clown/Fear do with a Vulcan brain, one who just told us, in the previous episode ("Innocence"), that he does not get scared, ever.
Oooooh. That would be a really interesting premise. It's stated in TNG that Vulcans have the same emotions as everyone else, only they learned to repress them. Even if Tuvok claims he doesn't get scared, what's really buried beneath that cool exterior?
@@JanelleWaz maybe the fear of losing that control? of developing that Vulcan Alzheimer's he had in the finale, or what Sarek had? or maybe just taking him back to when he was younger (the way he turned Harry into a baby), & in love with that girl ("Gravity"), before he had totally learned to control his emotions?
Voyager has so few bad episodes that the only one that really comes to everyone's mind is the Salamander episode and it's not really terrible, just weird versus the general high quality of the others. This episode was good enough that I forgot about how bad Tuvok's initial suggestion was. Would have been better if they exhausted other ideas first to make it more reasonable. There's a quest in Fallout 3 that reminded of this episode. I wonder if they took inspiration from it.
Ashes to Ashes a supernatural British crime drama, has a clown that is constantly tormenting the protagonist. More phycological than anything else, but will make your hair stand on end when you encounter it.
Soo, confession time... I actually really like Star Trek Voyager. Oh, don't get me wrong, it's not NEARLY as great as DS9 or Stange New Worlds. After all, those shows are more serialized and balance having standalone episodes. Heck, I don't think it's on the same level of The Original Series. That being said, there is a certain charm to it and I even like it more than TNG because I connect better with Captain Janeway and her crew.
My take on Voyager is that it's an okay show as it is, but I wish it could have been better. I've known people who really love Voyager, though, and I think the cast makes the show.
@@JanelleWaz That's fine, I understand that it's not for everybody. Heck, your take on Voyager is exactly the same as I have toward Star Trek: Discovery. Although for me and most who watched it, it relied WAY too much on its lead, Micheal Burnam to a point where it overshadowed the rest of the cast. That's not the case with Voyager. With the exception of Nelix and Chakotay, I think that Janeway, Tom Paris, the Doctor, Seven of Nine and the rest stood out.
It's probably overdone about Janeway being a criminal. She had to bend some rules being out in the middle of nowhere. Of course, I'm long overdue for a Voyager rewatch myself.
another weird episode for you do analyze, please? Frame of Mind....imagine you've not seen any TNG, in fact, you hated it on principle, & avoided it, until the then Nashville Network starts airing it in 2001 (after you've already seen some Voy & DS9, & really liked them, so you decide to give the other 'modern Trek' a try), so you decide to finally partake, but, before they officially start airing the series in order, they show a selection of episodes, so you watch those, & Frame of Mind is one of the first you watch....*raises hand* yup, that's what happened to me, & it was almost enough to make me not watch TNG anymore, I didn't like it, I didn't get it, it was too confusing (as I similarly found the Voy version, Projections, but, by the time I watched that, I already liked Voy, & I love the EMH, so it was easier to handle), just not a good ep for a TNG noob (though I was well versed in TOS)....as an added bonus, The Thaw was on H&I last night, & I watched it with someone who only has barely more than passing knowledge of ST, & she didn't care for it, either, & I really couldn't defend it much
Yep! In fact, I wish H&I played The Thaw tonight so my video could coincide with H&I's schedule. Oh well. At least Tuvix was on tonight. I wouldn't object to a Frame of Mind video. I just need to figure out an angle for it. I need to pick a theme in the episode and just go with it. I'll think on it a bit.
This is a terrific episode. Not only is it a true horror, but Michael McKean's performance is absolutely incredible. And Janeway's final line is every bit as chilling as the tortures that Fear was subjecting his victims to.
I'm surprised to learn that so many people dislike this episode. I agree with you; it's a very solid instalment - especially this early in the run - if a bit odd.
I asked on Twitter if The Thaw was a particularly hated episode, expecting it to go one way or the other. I'd say it was pretty split: either people love it or people really hate it.
there's a reason SF Debris Reviews uses the last line of this as the closer in his voyager reviews
The fact that this episode is so creepy and unsettling is its power as a story.
To be fair, the holodeck girl turning into a cow, would scar anyone for life
I’ve always loved this one because it’s so weird. Really well directed too, making that tiny set seem bigger
Best of Voyager. One of Trek's top 20.
The episode Fear starts off little confusing, but once we know people subconscious minds were trapped inside simulation it became extremely interesting. And the ending bone chilling last words by Captain Janeway
It's wild how divisive this episode remains. I know I didn't dig it when first broadcast but I've really grown to love it.
Before Chuck, there was the Clown. Seriously, McKean was legendary in this episode. Before this, I had mainly thought of him as the father from "That Darn Cat" in 1997. This episode, along with "Better Call Saul," showed me that he genuinely is one of the best actors of all time.
Of all the weird episodes of star trek, and there are a lot of weird episodes in star trek this one sticks the landing better than any other.
McKeen has to be one of the best character actors ever. From Laverne and shirley to better call saul, the guy has over 250 acting credits to his name.
Every so often, Trek offers up a weird-but-good episode. The Thaw is definitely one of the better ones.
I love this episode because it confirms harry has a perfectly normal relationship with his actual parents but mommy issues with his boss lmao.
This one is always on a VOY top-10 for me ... I think McKean crushed the clown role in ways that very few other actors could pull off IMO.
Agreed, he is menacing.
Not everybody can go from comical to menacing, and Michael McKean does a great job at it.
Great analysis and clips as always. Your sound effects are so solid 😂
Thanks, Katie!
This episode was enjoyable just for Michael McKean alone.
I wanted this episode to have more horror, less “Allemaraine!”
That being said, the hints of circus music reminds me of this creepy anti-drug PSA from the 90s with a kid hanging from some puppet strings.
But the fundamental problem with this episode is the Tuvok Quiz Time issue. After “The Phage”, “Prototype”, and all the dealings with the Cardassians, you’d think the Maquis members would just mutiny and shove Janeway out an airlock.
The Thaw seems to end up on every "best episode" list and every 'worst episode" list. I blame Harry Kim. I never liked him for even a moment on the show. So, I really loved this episode. ESPECIALLY Janeway's "I know ..." at the end. Good stuff. Thanks for making this video !
As someone who watched voyager on the Fox midnight airings growing up, this episode was almost never on. I really like it, but imagine how differently it would have resolved if this took place during the 7 years.
Fun fact, Tim Curry, the evil clown from Stephen King's original IT, is deathly afraid of clowns. How he managed to do the role, I have no idea. They say part of the contract was no mirrors or reflective surfaces and apparently a makeup artist had a compact with a mirror and Tim saw his reflection with the clown make up on and she was almost fired for it. Not sure on behest of Tim or to appease Tim by the director or producer.
I've always really liked this one partly because I'm a fan of Michael Mckean and he gives a great creepy performance here as the clown. As Janelle pointed out the crew are really, really stupid for plugging themselves into the pods in the first place, SG1 had a similar episode called the Gamekeeper; but in that episode SG1 gets sucked into the simulation against their will which would have been a better solution than Tuvok being inexplicably dumb. I also wish the episode leaned more into the ways that the clown can screw with your perspective, turning Harry into an old man and a baby really showed the extent of what he could do; but then after that the episode just contents itself with the clown throwing people into a guillotine which is rather dull in comparison. Still a fun episode and the ending is great.
Gamekeeper with Dwight Schultz! It's been awhile since I've seen the episode, but a lot of SG-1 episodes usually happen because Daniel touched something he shouldn't have (heck, I remember in another episode, Jack basically said "We're leaving right now. Don't touch anything" and the first thing Daniel did was grab EVERYTHING he could. 😆) Voyager had no such excuse: it was just Tuvok's terrible idea.
1:48 you'd think that the special materials, including metal that can withstand hull structural damage, would block a little noise. 🤔
As for "The Thaw" I actually agree that it's one of the better episodes of the show. Espieally around season 2.
The color scheme in the Clown's domain feels right at home with TOS in terms of camp and the premise is basically "what would happen if we took the Matix and Stephen King's IT and blended those concepts together?" 🤡
Just a fun time all around and that badass moment at the end with Captain Janeway is just icing on the cake.
The fact the doctor went in so easily makes it even more dumb they went into the pods themselves so quickly
You calling him Tuuuuv is the greatest thing to happen to me all week. 😂 It's honestly been so long since I watched it I don't remember much about the details past the "I knooooow!" scene. Voyager was the first TNG era Trek I never finished. And I've tried three times. It's just so predictable that I can't get into it. honestly if it weren't for the Wizard of Waz and SF Debris I'd probably have forgotten the show entirely by now. But I do love a good review of anything pre 2009 Trek so keep up the ace work sparky.
The Wizard of Waz.... now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time... That was a nickname I had on Twitter for a little while. 😁
I really need to start calling him Tuv more often. 😆
Also, glad you enjoyed the video!
@@JanelleWaz couldn't agree more, the snarky Tuv still has me smiling to this day.
I always liked it, if only for the very end. "drat" lmao
I thought it was a very good episode. Michael McKean did a wonderful job. It would be terrifying to have your life in the hands of such a cruel creature that delighted in your nightmares. It was so satisfying to see him become the recipient of his own fear.
I dont understand the hate. This is a GREAT episode, genuinely a bit scary but thats what makes it so good. Janeways ending monologue is PEAK Trek 🔥🔥🔥
This is probably the closest Michael McKean will come to playing the Joker. I know, he technically did in that one episode of The New Batman Adventures, but it was the goofy silver age Joker for just a few minutes.
The only major flaw with this story is that the whole planet seems to just have 3 survivors. You'd think it would be like Metroid Prime 2 where there are pods everywhere, holding anywhere from thousands to millions of individuals. Even if we assume the pods are not networked & only whatever is connected to the core is in that simulation, 5 people are not enough for a 15-year stay, even so a scan that got this pod setup should have picked up many more. But that's not so much a Voyager problem as it is a TV problem in general, because the casting or even just the SFX or just the time to explain all that eats up resources.
The Thaw was basically a re-hash of the Twilight Zone episode "Its A GOOD Life" with Clown as the Billy Mumy character. It would have made a reasonable Dr Who story, for the Tom Baker Doctor.
Ultimately is Janeway's decision. All Tuvok did was suggest. The Captain or who ever is the highest ranking officer at the time, has to maul them over and choose the best one.
I've always enjoyed this episode. Successfully defended it in a livestream once too.
Splendid collection of clown clips! 😂
You've convinced me it's an above-average Voyager episode and Michael McKean is brilliant.
Which is a compliment for Voyager! I like Voyager, but it didn't have the great episodes of TNG or DS9.
please tell me having Michael McKean & Robert Picardo face off is as awesome as it sounds...
I get that plots have to advance & sometimes that means characters doing stupid things (let's stick our brains in an unknown computer that killed two people - for science!!) & I can usually ignore it for the sake of plot...but not when it feels like the writers are insulting you. Of all the people to suggest it, why Tuvok? Pretty much anyone else in that briefing you could handwave an excuse based on some character flaw but the cautious logical-above-all guy? Come on.
Oh, it really was. I didn't want to include too many clips, but Robert Picardo's deadpan responses contrast well with Michael McKean's comical menacing performance.
Agreed about Tuvok. I could accept maybe Harry Kim suggesting it and volunteering because he's so sure it'll work, but Tuvok being like "Let's ask them by sending two people into the computer (but leave me out of it)" is a little hard to buy.
I remember this episode when it aired originally, ya that old, and it was very unique for the time….. I personally think it is one of my favorites but it could be nostalgia and I “may” be biased
I barely remember seeing this one, and the crazy clowns weren't the reason why (huge Joker fan BTW) but it's a forgettable episode at least for me. Honestly most of the previous Seven of Nine episodes I've forgotten about for, um reasons. Now if I only had H&I to check some of these Voyager episodes out. I didn't hate Voyager, but the reliance on techno babble caused me to skip the last season, except for the finale, which I liked. Great video as always!
It really is a shame H&I isn't in every area that MeTV is in considering they're sister stations. You'd probably really enjoy it.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
VOY The Chute, VOY Time and Again and DS9 The Sound of Her Voice, are episodes I would like to see you cover, if you would be so kind. Kim and Paris cement their relationship from The Chute episode. Time and Again and The Sound of Her Voice... Without the techno-bable, I have no idea what is going on. Both have to do with time dilation or time travel or something or other.
Just note, hasseloff said don’t do illegal drugs. Some legalities have shifted in recent years 😂😂
4:18 😂😂😂😂
What if Tuvok, instead of 'volunteering' Harry to go into the system, what if Tuvok had gone in (with, or without, B'Elanna...or, perhaps with an unknown red...um, yellow shirt, from Engineering)? How different an episode is it, then? What does The Clown/Fear do with a Vulcan brain, one who just told us, in the previous episode ("Innocence"), that he does not get scared, ever.
Oooooh. That would be a really interesting premise. It's stated in TNG that Vulcans have the same emotions as everyone else, only they learned to repress them. Even if Tuvok claims he doesn't get scared, what's really buried beneath that cool exterior?
@@JanelleWazthe program would simply create Neelix of course. 😅
@@tilasole3252 😂
@@JanelleWaz maybe the fear of losing that control? of developing that Vulcan Alzheimer's he had in the finale, or what Sarek had? or maybe just taking him back to when he was younger (the way he turned Harry into a baby), & in love with that girl ("Gravity"), before he had totally learned to control his emotions?
@@lauranolastnamegiven3385 ahhh yes, Tank Girl.
They found an empty planet with an infinite supply of spare parts and didn't take it.
The episode have a TOS vibe, also.
Voyager has so few bad episodes that the only one that really comes to everyone's mind is the Salamander episode and it's not really terrible, just weird versus the general high quality of the others. This episode was good enough that I forgot about how bad Tuvok's initial suggestion was. Would have been better if they exhausted other ideas first to make it more reasonable. There's a quest in Fallout 3 that reminded of this episode. I wonder if they took inspiration from it.
Its a bad episode of Trek but a damned good episode of Voyager if that makes any sense. Though it would have been right at home in TOS tbh.
Ashes to Ashes a supernatural British crime drama, has a clown that is constantly tormenting the protagonist. More phycological than anything else, but will make your hair stand on end when you encounter it.
Soo, confession time... I actually really like Star Trek Voyager.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it's not NEARLY as great as DS9 or Stange New Worlds. After all, those shows are more serialized and balance having standalone episodes. Heck, I don't think it's on the same level of The Original Series. That being said, there is a certain charm to it and I even like it more than TNG because I connect better with Captain Janeway and her crew.
My take on Voyager is that it's an okay show as it is, but I wish it could have been better. I've known people who really love Voyager, though, and I think the cast makes the show.
@@JanelleWaz That's fine, I understand that it's not for everybody. Heck, your take on Voyager is exactly the same as I have toward Star Trek: Discovery. Although for me and most who watched it, it relied WAY too much on its lead, Micheal Burnam to a point where it overshadowed the rest of the cast. That's not the case with Voyager. With the exception of Nelix and Chakotay, I think that Janeway, Tom Paris, the Doctor, Seven of Nine and the rest stood out.
I haven't seen Voyager since it aired. I need to give it more of a shot, at least to figure out why everyone is calling Janeway a criminal.
It's probably overdone about Janeway being a criminal. She had to bend some rules being out in the middle of nowhere. Of course, I'm long overdue for a Voyager rewatch myself.
It's not the worst episode, but they did go a little over the top with the absurdity.
True. When it works, it works, but it's still kinda weird.
First
Always loved this episode, terrifying at times, reminds me of a stage play, perhaps Because the cirque extras.
>First
Are you 12 years old?😂😂😂
@AB0BA_69 three laugh emoji? Can tell you have a brain the size of a planet.
@@AB0BA_69 people who can't type a paragraph without using a laugh emoji are dumb.
@@AB0BA_69 laugh emojis are the calling card of the dim.
@@DEEPENFRIENDSHIP Says the guy who saw the video title and thought it was a personal invitation to post 🤡
another weird episode for you do analyze, please? Frame of Mind....imagine you've not seen any TNG, in fact, you hated it on principle, & avoided it, until the then Nashville Network starts airing it in 2001 (after you've already seen some Voy & DS9, & really liked them, so you decide to give the other 'modern Trek' a try), so you decide to finally partake, but, before they officially start airing the series in order, they show a selection of episodes, so you watch those, & Frame of Mind is one of the first you watch....*raises hand* yup, that's what happened to me, & it was almost enough to make me not watch TNG anymore, I didn't like it, I didn't get it, it was too confusing (as I similarly found the Voy version, Projections, but, by the time I watched that, I already liked Voy, & I love the EMH, so it was easier to handle), just not a good ep for a TNG noob (though I was well versed in TOS)....as an added bonus, The Thaw was on H&I last night, & I watched it with someone who only has barely more than passing knowledge of ST, & she didn't care for it, either, & I really couldn't defend it much
Yep! In fact, I wish H&I played The Thaw tonight so my video could coincide with H&I's schedule. Oh well. At least Tuvix was on tonight.
I wouldn't object to a Frame of Mind video. I just need to figure out an angle for it. I need to pick a theme in the episode and just go with it. I'll think on it a bit.
So, basically the Matrix, except the setting is a circus and Agent Smith's a clown
Holy...
You're right!
Computer code reminds me of cardassian
Hey isn't that the brother from better call Saul?
Yep, also the lead vocalist from Spinal Tap. czcams.com/video/YjC0vMIrOAk/video.html
Never watched Better Call Saul, but yes.
This woman has a REALLY ANNOYING VOICE.
Honey, you must be in a sour mood today. Have a cup of tea: you'll feel better.