Kidfluencers, Mommy Bloggers, And How We Sold Out Childhood
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- In our video essay, Chelsea - along with input from a team of experts - dives into the world of kidfluencers, child labor laws, and the culture we're creating where social media content means a total blurring of the lines between work and life.
Special thanks to:
Alexis Mueller www.mavrolaw.com/our-attorney...
Kati Morton / katimorton
Sarah from mom.uncharted www.tiktok.com/@mom.uncharted...
Natalie from Primary Focus / @primaryfocus
Music and sound effects by www.epidemicsound.com
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:32 The cultural divide over social media and children
00:04:02 What's the context?
00:12:15 How have we normalized making children's lives a public spectacle?
00:29:43 Where does the pressure for mothers to appear perfect online come from?
00:44:50 How are children screwed over when they are put to work so young?
01:01:39 What happens when the kids grow up?
01:08:13 What now?
Source links:
www.insider.com/paparazzi-sho...
/ some_teachers_are_face...
www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/we...
www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/more-...
usa.kaspersky.com/resource-ce...
www.newsweek.com/youtube-lets...
theconversation.com/sharentin...
www.nytimes.com/2023/06/13/st...
www.christiancentury.org/arti...
onlabor.org/new-child-labor-l...
www.vox.com/policy/2023/5/3/2...
www.epi.org/publication/child...
www.abi.org/feed-item/how-ath...
www.apa.org/monitor/2022/10/c...
www.center4research.org/socia...
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-C
All the world's a stage...now there is just the stage. The sovereign line between public and private has disappeared. It has been theorized that this has resulted in children having no unconscious. I think it may be much more horrific. They are completely unconscious, due to the lack of a private self that enables such an awareness.
Children should have a "right to be forgotten" online once they hit 18. Minors who aren't public figures should be allowed to erase their private, digital lives, too!
Yes, I agree! That's probably easier than getting parents to stop.
I love you for writing this, you j
ust gave me the topic for a paper I'm going to write for one of my classes.
I wish I could delete everything I posted before my brain was fully developed 😅 I started posting online when I was about 11 or 12 years old on MySpace and then moved onto Facebook and Instagram
Agree but minors who are public figures should have that right as much as possible too. The idea of a minor being a public figure feels icky.
In the EU, everyone does have a "right to be forgotten" because of the GDPR, it's really cool to know you can request a company to delete everything they have about you whenever you want to
I think what’s upsetting to me is: family photos used to be for the family. For us. When it started becoming public is where it goes downhill.
So true. I remember we would receive envelopes with photos of family living abroad and it was so special. The magic is gone from everything!
It's still like this in our family - we e-mail pictures from time to time, that's it. We don't use social media.
I don't have photos of any of us on Facebook. People used to get mad at me. I didn't care. 16 years later, people get it.
As new parents, my husband and I decided not to post our baby's face on social media. I am so happy this is becoming a more common thing.
Lots of people have trouble differentiating between our parents mailing holiday photos of us, vs. posting it where literally millions of people could see it. That sense of scale can be hard
I was a musician from childhood, pre social media, and I can still think back to how dehumanizing it felt to have my mother constantly trotting me out to play songs for her friends, regardless of how I felt about it, all for her own validation. It felt awful and is a big part of why I no longer have any passion for it as an adult.
I can't even imagine what my mother would've put me through if she had Facebook at her disposal at the time. I feel so bad for kids who were born after the normalization of social media, especially ones born to the kinds of parents who use their kids for personal validation. And that's before we get to the influencers who exploit their kids for money. It's all so bad.
My mom did the same to me, too. I did clogging and street tap as a kid, and she would beg me to do these tap routines for people, like I was a wind-up doll. She used to say smile plus star power equals success. She was low-key Karen Stage mom. Thank God I was a 90s kid bc I know my mom would've been annoying if we had social media back then.
My mom did the same to me, too. She also would force me to show any drawings I'd made or other art to people, no matter how much I told her it was private and not for showing to anyone
@@d.d.d.a.a.a.n.n.n My mom used to do this with my writing. It was so frustrating that she never understood that boundary and it led to certain trust issues with her til this day.
@@shamidkpzd It angered me but also I had to fight the internalized sense that I should do what made her happy, and that also made me mad. I also have significant trust issues too, particularly in regards to my mom
Yikes, really glad my parents were old fashioned about this kinda stuff...I can't imagine being this rude to your kids. THEY ARE HUMANS!
I grew up with a famous father, and he tried very hard to protect his marriage and children from spotlight. He succeeded and I am very grateful for that. He had a normal marriage with my mum, and I had normal upbringing. Now, I live away from social media and my children were never exposed to public eyes. I hope they will be grateful for that when they grow up.
In our society, we fought really hard to eliminate child labor and exploitation. This is a huge step backwards. Those innocent souls are sold and pimped. And this is no fun and games.
I see these mothers living vicariously through their preteen daughters and it’s like,,, ma’am, your daughter was the reason I was bullied because my mother wears no makeup and was never going to make her 11 year old look 20+. Let these children have CHILDhoods. Don’t rush to grow them up..
My mother and uncle were prominently featured in their parents’ newspaper columns in the ‘50s and ‘60s and there was a lot of manufactured content even then. Certainly this isn’t the only reason, but they have an enormous amount of resentment even now and especially towards my grandfather, who passed away 40-plus years ago.
It says a lot about our culture that strangers are more concerned about these kids' welfare than their own parents. 😞
Anytime I think to myself, “I should post this of my children. It’s so cute!” I remind myself of this: no one cares about my children as much as me. So while I think this is the greatest picture, no one else will. So why share it?
You’re absolutely right.
I have a family group chat with my siblings and parents. We are our own mini social media and share all of our photos there. I find that after I send them to my immediate family, I don't have the urge to share it more. I like sharing these moments with my family, but that's as far as I need it to go :)
Yes. Same here. Some family get prissy I don't make everything he does a performance. (Like video whole xmas) I want some pics for me to remember but I want to be present in the moment and enjoy it
There's also the "theft" factor - people steal pictures of other peoples' children and claim them as their own. It happened to a friend of mine, so she took all the photos down for a while.
@@annababana I think there's also apps that feel like social media that are just for families and stuff.
obsessed with the cat drama in the background of the Alexis Mueller sections
Same
Yes!!😂😂😂 50:19 is where it gets real fun Lol
The cut around 23:50 makes me wonder if there was a disagreement on who got to sit on the cat tower. 🤔
Came for the deep dive, stayed for the lawyer's cats. 😍
haha exactly my thoughts, pet right videos soon
Most tech folks don't allow their kids to have tech. That should tell you everything.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yup!
Agreed. My cousin works in video game development and had strict "no screen rules" long before his first child was even born.
Thank you for talking about how children should not be filmed, having really serious emotions and have that shared on the internet. You might remember that Jimmy Kimmel came up with a prank where the parents tell their children that they ate all of the kids Halloween candy and then they filmed the kids reaction. Well I have a student who was filmed and her video is on CZcams and she does not feel very happy that the video of her crying and being upset is around for everyone to see. If a classmate played a horrible prank on a kid and then filmed their reaction, that would be considered cyberbullying but because it's parents, it's considered okay.
I think generally, people have a concerning tendency to view their children as extensions of themselves vs. individuals in their own right. I think that's why I think people are weirdly comfortable with parents making money on behalf of their kids... and especially in more fundamentalist communities. "This is my kid and I do what I want with my kid." That's how we get to the "Not under my roof" nonsense, too (ie, kids getting kicked out for being gay, trans, etc.) It's concerningly tolerated in these communities.
Edit: I'm not a child star, but I've definitely experienced this in the context of a parent telling me that because they raised me and paid for my k-12 schooling, I owed them "respect". By "respect" they meant I wasn't allowed to do things that they found morally objectionable (nevermind I was a grown adult paying for all my own bills at the time- I still owed them a say in my decision making regardless). I, to this day, am surprised that a parent in the year 2023 is still cool with openly admitting that out loud with their full chest.
I think this is totally accurate, we go into it in our referenced video about child labor laws specifically.
I agree on all fronts. Children are basically just their parents' property and not meant to be individual beings. But then the very day they turn 18 they've got to start "getting their act together". We do children such a disservice when we view them in this way, with an underlying tone of ownership always lingering.
I couldn't agree more. So many parents talk about their kids like they are property or a lifestyle accessory that exists to enhance the lives of parents.
I'm a former mormon, and we were literally told by an apostle to be on social media and blogs in the early 2000s in order to spread the gospel. The original article is still up on the church's website.
That's interesting, it explains why Mormons got in there first iykwim
Two thoughts…I’ve been an educator for over 40 years. Unfortunately many of the problems we are experiencing with students began way before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated the situation. As someone who is older, 64 I have to say the media presence of adults is baffling but the media presence of children is disturbing.
20:56 I'm a grown adult and if someone filmed while I was crying or breaking down, that's a fight on sight situation. I'm enemies with that person from that point forward. Any parent doing that to their kid is violating their kids in such a serious way. I understand that parents want to share their happy kids, and I understand that parents want to share that their kids are not always happy, but I cannot understand sharing the actual fit or temper tantrum or anything that shows the kid breaking down. That's honestly so beyond my understanding that I'm getting angry thinking about it. I do not get it.
I don't get it, either! I would be FURIOUS if someone filmed me when I was having an off day or a meltdown and the thought of parents exploiting their children's most difficult moments by posting them on the internet is so repugnant to me. These poor kids! They can't consent to it and it's not right.
This video is amazing- thank you for backing up so many things I think about with data. One of the beauties of childhood is you are unaware and less self conscious. We need to let children have a chance to exist without the world watching. A little bit of intention goes a long way.
Thank you so much for lending your thoughtful voice on the matter!
@@thefinancialdiet you’re so welcome! 🖍️ ❤️ 🍎
Amen 🙌
I’m childfree mostly by choice (I have been single most of my life and never wanted to be a single parent and now I’m 40 and don’t want to introduce a new baby into my life at this stage). My sister has been vocal about being child free since being a young adult. My mom has been vocal to both of us about her disappointment in not being able to be a grandmother, and one of the reasons she gave in full earnestness was - “All my friends and peer groups post about their grandchildren and the things they do with their grandchildren on Facebook and I don’t have that option so I can’t relate to them.” To her, there was a very real feeling of being “left out” because she couldn’t post a picture of making cookies or going to the zoo or whatever with her grandchildren. I still think about this when I see her posting photos of extended family or friends with young children when they host gatherings at their home (they recently retired to waterfront property that obviously is popular with kids).
I’m just trying to imagine how horrifying it would be if every dumb family video my mom made while I was growing up was viral on the internet & I couldn’t opt out because the videos were paying the mortgage. That is the situation kids are in.
I suspect this trend started in the pre-internet days - just after the invention of dirt - with watcher-submitted home-video TV shows. The internet just became an extension of that (and then monetized). I would say at least the TV shows are gone, but this is the internet and many old shows are resurfacing.
Speaking from my experience of a youth (u18s, u16s, u14s) girls sports coach: it is completely unrealistic to suggest parents delay social media use until 15/16 years old, all that will happen is they will make accounts behind your back- usually not private and without your knowledge, totally unregulated. I'm not sure what the answer is, but knowing at least 5 girls on each of my teams has/is doing this makes it clear that we need a better solution than "they're not allowed until x age" because they will do it anyways.
Limited screentime perhaps? It's pretty easy to download screentime limiting apps, and hell adults are using it.
I also like the method where parents have their passwords and can do random checks, but otherwise give them a wide berth. Maybe have conversations about sus behaviour spotted in their DMs.
If we can't stop kids from being on the internet, we can at least mediate. There are plenty of red flags that kids aren't equipped to spot but adults can.
@@fortheloveofketchup I have to politely but strongly disagree. The right answer is never going to be "let parents gain more control of their children in more insidious ways". Like @natwilliams2215 already said, any sort of outside rigidly enforced control over children only leads to them doing it behind our backs, and children are very likely be far more tech savvy than aging parents of the previous generations would ever be. The right answer, like the video clearly said, is systemic and legal, in forcing social media companies to let everyone - including children - to have more and more towards complete control of our own data. The only part where I think parents come in, is to have a thorough and ongoing conversations with their children about safe & private online navigation. Just like how we should approach talks about gender, sexual and reproductive health/rights with our children, instead of cutting them off of those topics just because we find it difficult (to attempt control children in that regards) and uncomfortable.
I get freaked out when I see family members and friends sharing excessively about their kids on social media. You won't find me doing that with my little. We're very private, and my baby deserves to grow and discover a world without their face plastered everywhere.
I'm due with my first this summer and my husband and I are adamant on not sharing our child's face online. That infant is no one else's business. Once they are able to have a say in what's shared, I will respect that decision.
good for you! my 9 year old who is now starting to grasp what the internet is is VERY grateful I never posted a single pic of her online. @@EFW93
I don’t think there is anything say …. posting a standard family photo that contains an infant. But if I had an 8-year-old I wouldn’t record them freaking out in a VR game & post it on my own social media without enthusiastic consent
Small detail- but the reason kids are frequently promoted to the next grade even if they’re not totally prepared has to do with research on the long-term impacts of being held back. Students who are held back are ~80% more likely to eventually drop out vs students who are advanced with their peers, but may need help catching up academically. Those students *should* be tracked by the school and extra help provided (tutoring, a slower class pace, remedial summer school, etc). The goal is to improve outcomes for the child’s life, not derail their lives over a few bad months. This is especially significant when you consider that falling grades can frequently be attributed to the child’s environment outside of school. Students experience being held-back as a years-long punishment and tend to hate school, resent their younger peers and resent teachers as representatives of the system punishing them. Less extreme, but still negative outcomes are found with even a single instance of in-school suspension. Students who are suspended outside of school are also highly likely to eventually drop-out.
I used to teach middle school. Anecdotally, I had an 8th grade student who was 14 because he’d been held back in the 4th grade. He was so withdrawn, angry, and dejected that he was still reading on a 3rd grade level (he could have also not taken testing seriously) and refused to participate in class in any way. He was eventually arrested out of my classroom because he’d told an administrator that he was only coming to school to sell drugs. While a whole set of conditions contributed to that outcome, being held back definitely didn’t help him.
This might be an interesting topic to explore on the channel! My knowledge of the stats is from ~2015. I’m curious how it’s changed post-pandemic.
I work in an early elementary context, and I love what I do. I do wonder if it's a correlation and causation issue. Also, in the case of where I teach, being under resourced means that sometimes retention or placement in special education is the only option. We don't have reading specialists or dyslexia support or even enough special education teachers. It's a big game of "which law are we breaking this year" because we simply don't have the staff. So it's left to the classroom teachers who are doing their best but can't exclusively focus on the high-needs kids. At the end of the year, when you have a child who can't read CVC words at 8 or 9, retaining them can be the least terrible option.
It's an amazing job, and I'm trying to get certified in being a reading support teacher myself. I've done some one-on-one work with kids who struggled severely and the progress they can make when they have that individual attention is amazing. But until every kid can get that, sometimes retention remains our best option.
I’m a “weird” mom. I don’t really post a lot about my kid. A little, but I have been compared to fathers and that wasn’t a compliment. There is pressure to “prove” your a “good woman” by showcasing what a “good mom” you are. I think because even in our evolving society, the only acceptable role for women is to be a wife (of a man) and first and foremost a mother.
I have 3 kids. I’ve nvr posted a picture on a post I pic platform. Literally no one cares……
I think that goes back to the mindset of "if I don't tell people I did a good thing, then I'm not a good person." We've adopted this weird cultural mindset that if we don't post about things we do, then they didn't happen or that we have to prove it to other people.
I hate the idea that kids might be so self conscious of their image and online life that they may not see a reason to develop interests and skills that are their own and not connected to social media. I feel so sorry for parents who want to protect their children from this when their kids are surrounded by peer pressure to engage online. It also makes me sad to think about how the joy and excitement that can be found in private moments are being ruined by a lack of appropriate boundaries.
So spot on regarding peer pressure to engage online, I remember a school friend complaining I go on social media too rarely to follow what’s happening in the school in 2008! Back then my family only had one device with internet connection (family pc) so I had objectively limited internet time if the pc was used by any other family member but imagine how much more pressure there is nowadays when internet is in your pocket all the time.
I’ve been watching Dad Challenge podcast for years now and he’s the reason I keep my kids pictures to a bare minimum online. I cannot believe how many normal people share their kids lives all day everyday even when they’re in the nude or half nude. This is such an important topic for everyone to be aware of and discuss
I had to unfollow him for his bigotry and transphobia. He was right about child exploitation but he's been wrong about a lot of things that matter to me. I think he also enjoys mocking family vlogers hair or mannerisms more than criticizing them for impropriate content.
I was always weary about children and social media and since I birth my first child almost 3 years ago, I barely ever posted them, and by the time he was one I had deactivated all my accounts, my second child has absolutely no online footprint, but it worries me that other people post my children without my consent because while I was on social media, I would constantly battle that especially with my in-laws and my family members. I even came across people. I didn’t even follow posting my child online. I don’t understand how anyone can do that without thinking of that parent and the child.
I just want to add that the Daddy O Five parents, who initially claimed it was all "a show" and not real, later went on to continue making horribly abusive videos with the children they had left (off youtube, cause they kept getting banned) and basically blamed their problems on people cancelling them over "nothing". They have repeatedly refused to take responsibility for what they do and courts continue to be frustratingly lenient on them. Children in this country have so few protections. The courts tend to rule in favor of parents and "keeping families together" even in cases of parents abusing the children.
Having 14 year olds serving grown adults alcohol is problematic and predatory in so many ways…☹️
I heard a story of a girl who wanted to stop doing videos and her parents guilted her “we won’t keep our house” “we won’t be able to go on trips”
Deplorable.
I hope they’re putting money aside for the years of therapy their kids are going to wind up needing
@@AzariaBell24if the kids were child actors, the parents would be legally required to set aside 15% of the money, but there’s no telling if CZcamsr parents are thinking that far ahead
It's so weird how dismissive people are of children's emotions and don't respect their privacy.
I grew up in a time when parents when practically threaten a child before going into public: "Don't embarrass me" "You better act like you have some sense/ home training" "Don't think I won't embarrass you if you act up in public" "don't go yelling anybody what you heard / what just happened." "What happens in the house, stays in the house." "Don't put house business in the street."
Now, some of those things are problematic, but there was a clear sense of division of personal and public life, understanding that impressions matter for future social capital.
We had an expectation that we were being sent to school to learn, that was our job, for which we will get paid later in life through opportunities that would be available to us.
Now kids see kids being famous and appearing to rich just from content, and why wait? Why work?
Back in the day, being a famous kid meant a lot of work and sacrifice, and we used to look down upon stage parents, sports dads, and pageant moms who would push their kids to extremes for the goal of capturing attention at the expense of the child's wellbeing. That's not even a thought today. Today the norm is to think of how to use one's kids for likes, followers, content to talk about or monetize. While there may be less constant pressure to put on and be the best, there's still the danger of making a child live a life with the goal of performing for acceptance.
I, too, grew up with my granddad getting a camcorder in the early 90s and that made us huge hams when it came out on special occasions.
As for pictures, we had to wait for them to develop and didn't know what they would look like until then. So yes we posed, but there wasn't the instant gratification and obsession that came with being able to immediately delete, curate, correct, filter and distribute every single one of one's photos, photos that now captures every moment and not just special ones.
As kids, we used to get annoyed at the "telephone voice" our mom would switch into when she paused yelling to answer the phone. Now kids see the artificial all the time. And whereas that could be annoying for some kids, for others it's literally part of their home training / upbringing. It's what they think life is or is supposed to be - fake, posturing, pandering and performing.
Sassy attitudes and backtalking get the validation and likes they want. And even if kids aren't online as subjects themselves, they watch those things and see normalization or acceptance of attitudes... or of exceptionalism and think those things to be acceptable or aspirational as childhood goals and equally deserving of a spotlight. And as adults and children, everything we do, including comments we make, in the digital spaces where we work or pursue recreation comes with the expectation of a reactions (like, share, and follow).
I'm a therapist on a career break to stay at home with my 2 toddlers. I think one of the biggest contributors is lonliness and lack of social support that was exacerbated by the pandemic. People turn to social media thinking its a comparable alternative to community interaction, and to connect with friends and family. It's fueling this fire and parents don't think of the consequences for everyone. I personally keep my kids offline entirely. I take video and pictures of my kids all the time, but they are completely private and only go to their grandparents. As a therapist, even out of work for now, my private life has to stay private for boundary and safety reasons. And want them to have the space to grow up and learn who they are without feeling the need to perform or fearing embarassment.
One of the CZcams channels I watch, is a family farm. On the farm, they've got an only daughter, who used to appear regularly. She's a bit of a bird expert, and they've got an aviary. Lately, she's not appearing in many of their videos, and her mom explained that she doesn't want to be in the videos, unless she gives permission. I like how these parents are giving her the privacy she asked for. If she does appear in the vids, it's typically at a distance, or from behind. She's becoming a photographer, and she shares some of her photos on the channel.
If you just imagine that everything on the internet, is potentially available to anyone who has the means to dig, it makes it a lot easier to limit the images of your kids. Imagine a pedo getting a glimpse of your precious child, and how savvy online groups are at tracking people down. Baby feet, and the back of someone's head isn't likely to make some creep go Sherlock Holmes to find you.
If that doesn't make you wary, imagine the horrible way some kids were bullied into unaliving themselves. Then there's the entitled brats we see online, doing outrageous things just to get attention. I just watched one with a kid who kept going into public buildings to pull their fire alarms--and film it. It's so hard to have a healthy public persona.
1:06 in and the scared little “can you tell me first🥺” legitimately brought tears to my eyes. I knew this one would be hard for me but WOW is CPS hiring
The cat in the backround of the legal guy 😅😅😅 what a star! Talk about "saving the cat" moment.
Wow exceptional video. Great to hear all the perspectives from various experts and voices. Loved all the articles plugged. Hope to see more of this content!!!
I agree. Also when i point this out to people, everyone gets defensive that the parents are doing nothing wrong because it's so normal. The worst part is it's usually already wealthy families by looking at their homes. They dont need this content. Adults dont need to be watching it. Tips and trick videos do not need to involve a child's face or reaction imo.
Something I noticed when my niece and nephew were young was how they would constantly ask me to video them when they were doing something they thought was cool or funny. This started when they were around 5 or 6. Its like if it doesn't get filmed, then it didn't happen for them, or maybe its just how they get that validation now, the new "hey mum/dad, watch this!" Being seen in person is no longer enough. My nephew still does this requesting to be filmed, my niece doesn't now that she's a teen. Most videos I take of them I never share. I worry about how this desire to be filmed is affecting them mentally. What will happen when they grow up and having their family as an audience is no longer enough? It all makes me so glad I grew up before social media existed.
Children deserve to have their privacy respected. This world is so different where so much is shared and children don't have as much luxury to experience learning life lessons and going through the growing pains in private.
I did not come from parents who were influencers, but I had a mother who was more a social butterfly and a bit more public-facing in our social circles. She would constantly post pics and videos of our family that I often didn't want posted. It became so tiring to ask her to stop. I felt so disrespected when I had something filmed (which I was okay with) for family memories, but asked my mother NOT to post this online. However, she ended up posting it and when I messaged her to take it down, she just ignored my message.
Another absolute banger. Love the content. I really hope we get this sorted out for future generations.
thank you so much chelsea for using your platform to explore this
Great video, very thorough... and absolutely love the cats playing in the background 😂 50:20
Thank God! I was not the only one
It's hard to notice sometimes when a child starts consuming 'influencer' content. It starts with letting him to watch some animated series and then something turns up in the related section. And then it all comes to some crazy unboxing and strange shows with children and their parents. In the end we've just put a blanket ban on any youtube content for our 5yo. Want to watch something? Here's a media player, let's choose an animated film and watch it. And when it ends, it ends.
I highly recommend a yoto player, my 5yo adores it!
Ann Reardon's How To Cook That channel does a lot of awareness raising and debunking in addition to cooking. She showed a whole series of innocuous craft-themed kids content that would look ok to a parent glancing at their kids screen but actually had really sinister, grooming-adjacent voiceovers that the parents wouldn't great if the kids were wearing headphones
I'm quite surprised to see Katy Morton on your channel. I thought she had disappeared after all the controversy
I was thinking that too. I don't really know what went down, but I remember there was a big uproar questioning her credibility?
I trust Chelsea's judgement and research though
Yeah I’m surprised they’re still collaborating with her. On another collab video they did with her years ago, I saw a fair amount of comments calling them out about it 🤔
I was wondering the same
The one cat coming to disturb the other cat til it ran away 50:20
🤭🤭
Great analysis. This made me think twice about how I might present my future children online, if at all.
I'm sure you're probably on it but please consider inviting Alyson Stoner to talk on this
Very good discussion TFD crew really excited to see all of the goodies you’ll for the new year!
Thank you for your amazing, well-researched content!
Recently, a 12 year old boy in Canada ended his life due to online sextortion. So heart breaking
Which province was this in?
@@mekaylanicolai54 Prince George, B.C.
i think this next generation is realizing, "just because you can, should you?". The internet was all new when Millennials were growing up, the new shiny internet where we could post all the pictures we were capable of, not thinking why we shouldn't. This next generation is going to be in a world that didn't exist for them without the internet, and it is going to be interesting to see how they navigate this whole new world.
I just hate how common this form of abuse is it’s heartbreaking. Our children deserve better than this.
Such an imortant opic, well done for talking about it!
Well that's just what you get from a society wherein parents largely view their children as property and not really much more than that.
As a parent, it horrifies me that other parents could think like this...
Can we all just appreciate Alexis Mueller’s cat in the background?❤
cats plural - the orange cat transforms at one point :D
I’m glad I had a normal childhood.
My family had privacy all throughout. Especially when they were articles written about me a long time ago.
My mom wanted us to grow up normally. And we did. We stayed out of the limelight all our lives.
My mother would never want us to be in front of a camera
It is hard to be a stay at home mom with no physical villiage, so I'd like to shout out some influencers who don't exploit their children but still post mom content. My suggestions are Gwenna and Tori "mamacusses" and "tori phantom". Both of them focus on gentle parenting and started a podcast recently. Also "Hapa family" took their kids offline a while ago. She focuses on at home montessori education. Any other suggestions?
There's that one gal who makes "Utah Mom" skits and other things. Her child does appear in some of those skits but only briefly and occasionally. When she wants to share the hilarious things her kid has naturally done and said that week, she dresses up AS a goofy little kid and "acts out" what her kid has said. It adds a layer of humor because she has great comic timing and shelters her child from online exploitation.
@@RidleyJones yes! I forgot her. Janeisinsane is her channel
I appreciate this perspective, but I'd also like to see how old school bloggers feel now. People like Shay Carl were the original family vloggers and I know they realize now there's backlash towards putting your kids online that didn't exist then, but I'd love to see some perspectives from those original vloggers that no longer do it.
I love these essays, thank you
I'm the one in the family that takes pictures of my nieces, and I've never posted a single one, having seen what damage these things can do online. My 4 year old niece had the most hilarious encounter with Santa, and only close family are going to know about it
Nobody else cares. Trust. So it doesn’t need to be posted
The Truman Show was supposed to be a warning, not a guideline
My all-ages art/collecting/customizing/crafts miniatures hobby has many young content creators, starting at tween ages. I've been watching more of this as I started working with an internationally popular, moderately priced scale range. It's been interesting to see the approaches re content and protecting identity among them as teenagers start fledgling art businesses and make a transition to college-age pursuits and adult level of skills.
I'm so glad others see this as horrible! I hate when especially my friends post these extremely private and vulnerable moments of their kids' childhood, even if it's just on their own Facebook accounts not to their millions of followers! I absolutely love how you blurred these kids faces to not continue their exploitation!
Thank you for sharing this message of how dangerous and violating it is to have children's lives online like it is today
Back in 2017 I filmed a few videos of my kids for their YT channel (food stuff). We had an economic change so we stopped but I didn't stop hearing from my kids how much they wanted to film again. However none of my kids (16, 11, 8) want to be professional CZcamsrs as adults, and I'm so proud! My teen wants to work with cars, my tween wants to be a potter, and my baby wants to be a paleontologist or archaeologist. I don't think they would've chosen anything on the survey besides CZcamsr because that's all they know right now and the only thing they can relate to.
Boundary violation. Exactly! I'm twenty minutes in the video and already so thankful that you decided to make it, Chelsea. Just recently I had a conversation about this with my friend, about how many people lost any sense of privacy when it comes to their kids. I have people around me who would post from their birthing room as soon as the child is out. I'm already wondering what will happen to those kids once they start growing up. I hope this falls under the same category as GDPR, hopefully SOON. It's dangerous!
Btw. great book about this was written by Delphine de Vigan, it's called Les enfants sont rois. (not sure about the English version)
This was excellent. Thank you.
I agree with a lot of your points. However, one nuance that complicates the conversation which I did not hear in this was the impact of social media in remaining connected with family and friends in our world where people so frequently move far away from each other. In our family, this is the reason we maintain personal social media accounts. We have always lived far away from any family, and have moved far away from many close friends, and maintaining those relationships is very hard, but social media does help significantly with that. When we are able to check in "live," the posts and interactions help us pick up without having to rehash everything that has happened in the meantime. This doesn't negate the vast difficulties of dopamine hits and the challenges with rights to privacy and rights to one's own image. However, it is a complicating reason for engagement and sharing and I believe worthy of acknowledgment. (Note: the child in my profile image is me, myself, as a youngster.)
I can relate to that, as I also live away from my family and many of my friends too. But I have really limited my online presence after several unpleasant episodes, including being stalked once, as an adult woman. In the end I just have a number of group and 1:1 chats with my friends and relatives where we share many pictures. My husband grew disillusioned with the way people behave on social media during the pandemic and now those chats see our main means of keeping in touch with those away. There were engagement, wedding and now some baby photos shared in those, but we can all be sure it stays private. Oh, and we also have a very useful group chat for our house, we live in an apartment block in Berlin 😅 way better than a Facebook group
I am still present on some social media, but more on the professional/networking basis.
Children need codified rights to autonomy, education, and freedom from all forms of exploitation. In order to do that families need to not have the economic drive to exploit their children. Both the Material conditions and social forces of hierarchy limit the scope of accountability that parents are held to. All too often parents are the children’s first bully and the lack of access to community and education leave us as parents as our own worst enemy. We need to demand accessible children care, develop mutual aid, expand reproductive rights, and fair living standards in both housing, and abolish unfair labor practices.
Love these collabs 🙌🏾
Love this long-form content
I appreciate your nuanced and mature perspective on this. A lot of the commentators I see clearly look down on the children for having these problems and think Gen Alpha is just too stupid to get off their phones. It always rubbed me the wrong way
Just want to add that as an autistic person (who was not diagnosed as a child) even filming "surprise we're going to disneyland!" is an invasion. those sorts of surprises can (and have in me) elicit an embarrassingly large emotional response (crying hysterically). That shouldn't be shared with the world for entertainment.
Definitely. I have bipolar and would have despised my parents making my breaks from reality and manic behavior public. Just the idea is violating.
I keep thinking about the baby on the cover of the Nirvana album. At one point he said it was cool, another point he hated it and thought it was a violation. That album cover impacted his life in a significant way (and not just in terms of money,). This was the era before kidfluencer days, but still relevant, I think, to the idea of how Minor's images are used.
I'm an aunt to 9 (10 in March) nieces and nephews, all 5 y/o an under. I've never shared a photo of them online showing their faces, and the two (2) times I've ever posted a photo of them at all, I asked their parents first.
Their parents (8-13 years my senior) think I'm being overly cautious, but I'm a young Millennial (I'll be 29 this year) who grew up knowing the dangers of posting certain things online. I love my nieces and nephews too much to put them in danger like that.
The attention economy has broken humanity.
The scene change with the cutie cat change around minute 24, so funny!
We published pics of our 3 year old, once in while. This summer, my dad sent me something that was broadcast on French TV about how many pedophile websites take pictures that were published by parents. I had already heard of pedophile stuff but this was the impulse I needed to make the change. I thought it would be hard not to be able to show her anymore. Who doesn't like to show their kid's cuteness? Now I am so happy that we get to keep her to ourselves (I still publish pictures, usually from behind. I never show her face) and know she is as safe as possible from pedophiles
Every day is a time for introspection about the life I might have had if I had a child star or child influencer career. I keep wondering whether I need to monetise my hobbies and my personality to receive a paltry income.
My 7yo stepson (who's actually a month away from being 8)- Hey Scate, The Simpsons started in 1967 and there's 10,000 episodes.
Me- The show started in 1990 and there's probably hundreds of episodes because it's been on for over 30 years.
7yo- Noooo look! *Plays the CZcamsr Think Noodles saying "it's been on since like 1967 and there are like 10,000 episodes"*
Me- Ohhhhh that's hyperbole. He's exaggerating to make a point about the fact that the show has been on for way longer than most shows.
7yo- Hey Siri when did The Simpsons come out?
Siri- The show began in 1990, but the characters were introduced in 1988.
😂
Just starting the video, but one thing to comment on is about keeping struggling kids back a year. I would not combine this issue with social media issues.
There is research (ongoing) suggesting that keeping a struggling kid back a year is more damaging long term vs any academic benefit they might achieve by staying back.
I have 3yo boy and I don't post his pictures online. Once he is adult, he will decide if he wants to be influencer or wherever. As for now, I let him be cringe kid, who makes mistakes, and that will be kept within family circle. I take lots of his pictures, and print them, but those are just for my family.
You don't always forget. In middle school when I started my 🩸 our school colors were blue and white. Normally our bottoms were blue, but for a special presentation they asked everyone to were white pants and blue polos. (the topic of talking about how we're "examples" of how important systems for low income and disabled parents is important was embarrassing enough) but after I finished talking and sat down people were staring. I'd started bleeding (on the stage) and not a little. I will never ever ever ever live it down.
Good sharing thanks for your beautiful video ❤❤
"PREACHHHH!"
- a parent who has long seen this as a consent issue (and therefore an abuse issue)
There are a lot of parents publicly living vicariously through their kids and getting the validation they crave.
Chelsea has the audacity to say she's not a parent with that Mona book behind her
I don’t get it?
@@heatherhaven1268 lol Mona is her dog who she wrote a book about which is on the bookshelf behind her
Just because a woman created something doesn’t mean it’s her “child”. It’s super sexist, no one goes around automatically calling Stephen King’s books his children
@@lai6551the DOG! They mean the dog is the "child." And the amount of sexist things women go through this is at the bottom of the list.
The cats fighting in the background at 49:17 😂
That is quite the graphic novel collection, Chelsea!!
I'm so glad that the culture is beginning to question and criticize the loss of privacy and children's rights with online sharing of children. I hope parents find alternative ways to find community and make money. I know i could exploit my children- they're gorgeous little precocious redheaded kiddos- and make money that would help our family in these rough times, but at what cost? I keep my kids offline entirely for their safety and development and we connect with family through daily FaceTime calls and try to find local community groups and activities. It's so tough now to find community without using social media, especially when kids arent yet in school and family isn't nearby. It's tempting but never worth it.
I’m terrified of pdf files. My kids will never be online…I won’t post them or film “content” bc these are children
I have an in-law who has a private google photo album for their babies - and it struck me how, if I ever have children, that's how I would do it. Facebook wouldn't know they existed, except perhaps for the bare bones holiday photos from family gatherings. Family is all added as able to view the online album, since they're the ones I would trust to see those photos. All the cute stuff goes in there, no one feels left out, and my kid wouldn't be plastered all over the internet for who knows to see their photos.
OK Chelsea: I'm obsessed with your bookshelf. The graphic novels got me like 🙌🏾🎉. Highly recommend Paper Girls!!!
50:30 best moment 😻
Thank you.
Good on Illinois, it’s a start at least, now we just need MORE protections and opportunities for children from their parents.
I really enjoyed this video and agreed with everything discussed but I don’t trust the therapist Katie Morton as a professional due to her involvement with the Shane Dawson Logan Paul documentary and using her professional expertise to diagnose a person through their CZcams videos. I don’t think TFD or other respectable video essayists should use her as a resource because she is not credible compared to other mental health specialists on the platform
Agreed!!!!
I was a bartender in WI at age 20 and it was illegal for me to be in the bar the minute my shift ended. So, my co-workers would socialize and bond but I literally was not allowed to enter the building where I worked.
Currently 7 months pregnant and have zero intention of posting my child’s face on social media, even as a person with no following on social media beyond people I know. The internet is weird and children deserve to be offline until they can use informed consent around their social media presence.
VERY good video!
Will say that hearing you talk about all the legalities involved just made me re-remember that the United States is one of, if not THE only country that hasn't ratified the UN's declaration for the rights of children. Signed it, sure, but not ratified it.
I don't have English as my native language, nor do I speak legalese, but that little detail sounds like it matters... At least when it comes to how children are viewed, and (it seems to me, looking from the outside in) as if children in America are still viewed as their parents' property, rather than their own autonomous individuals.
I had to rewatch Alexis Mueller's section because I was too distracted by his adorable cats to pay attention to what he was saying! :D