The Devil Before Christianity | Dark Pages & Eerie Epistles Podcast Ep. 2
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
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DISCLAIMER
I am just a random student on the internet who loves reading, especially about ancient history and classics. The purpose of my videos is to make classics and ancient history interesting and accessible to everyone. I am not a professional or qualified educator, “expert”, historian or classicist. However, I ensure that all the information I use in my video scripts has been collated from numerous credible sources. Additionally, I am dyslexic, and I will mispronounce words. This does not stem from willful ignorance, and I do make an effort to research how to pronounce words before I start filming, but I often misread my phonetic spelling. In light of this, please do not rely on my video for an authoritative or reliable source of how to pronounce certain words.
Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
6:27 Who was the Persian Devil?
10:00 Zoroastrianism and Zurvanism
14:00 The Birth of the Devil
16:40 Ahriman and Prince Zahāk
19:34 Conclusion
Resources:
Aimers, G. J. (2012). ‘Give the Devil His Due’: The Satanic Agenda and Social Justice in the Book of Job. Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, 37(1), 57-66. doi-org.bham-ezproxy.idm.oclc...
Denova, Rebecca. 2021. “The Origin of Satan.” World History Encyclopedia. February 2021. www.worldhistory.org/article/....
Mark, Joshua J. 2020. “Zorvanism.” World History Encyclopedia. January 2020. www.worldhistory.org/Zorvanism/.
-- 2020. “Ahriman.” World History Encyclopedia. February 2020. www.worldhistory.org/Ahriman/.
Oldridge, Darren, The Devil: A Very Short Introduction, Very Short Introductions (Oxford, 2012; online edn, Oxford Academic, 24 Sept. 2013), doi-org.bham-ezproxy.idm.oclc..., accessed 23 June 2023.
I have to say: being that you’re a one-woman show, you are KILLING IT!! Your production value, your writing, your storytelling is just leveling up with every single video. Longtime fan of your work and so proud of you. Keep it up!
Thank you x
Seconded!! 🏆 You are my favourite channel on CZcams 🤗🔮📚
Its always who is the devil, and never how is the devil.
And until next time.....unpleasant.....dreams.
I can relate a lot to the story of Ahriman and Zahak, my own doctor also prescribed human brains for my shoulder snake problem. It did get better though, so perhaps Zahak should have stuck with it.
Zoroastrianism and Zurvanism sounds so cool, they're basically a rabbit hole waiting to happen (thanks lol).
Fascinating and excellently done as always Cinzia 💜
Am enjoying this podcast-like format, so we can focus on your wonderful storytelling voice. Topics like this are made all the more compelling when you tell us about them :)
Cinzia really could read audio books. I agree whole-heartedly on the voice and storytelling.
It doesn't get any better than listening to the Lady of the Library talk about the devil while her fluff baby chills on screen. 12/10
Just one point to possibly connect some dots closer: originally there was no apple in Eden. The apple comes from medieval art. It was ‘the fruit’ (some speculate it was pomegranate). One could definitely call one’s child ‘the fruit’ of their love/life etc.
This podcast/channel only gets better and better! love the way you narrate Lady!☺
Love your narration style it feels so calming
'Even the gods are looking for answers to their own existence.'
Such a profound line and you threw it at the wall like it was just another sentence. Damn.
This is why I can't stay away from your content.
It's rare to come across someone who can see the profound and esoteric as casual and mundane.
Just to say, the eeriness of the soundscape here is absolutely perfect for the tone of this series. I kept expecting the sky outside to cloud over to match it.
MORE PLEASE THIS WAS AMAZING
Come for the literature, stay for the adorable floofs
Interesting crossovers with christianity and zoroastrianism. Thank you for this amazing research 💜
This is so cool to learn about! I can't wait to hear more
You have great insights on various topics. We will always support you.
12:54 Just dropping one of the most metal lines in all of Christendom and casually continuing like it weren’t no thing.
just as romantic love was sanctioned by the church , it was not understood until Dantes figure of Beatrice , so the history of the devil was not understood until Milton's Paradise Lost illuminated it via the gospel of Mark , who flipped the tragedy into good news .
I think it's mentioning that HaSatan in Job does seem to overstep his boundaries by challenging God. It isn't outright rebellion but the seeds are there.
you have too low a view of God if you don't realise that even the smallest slight against the Sole Arbiter and Author of Righteousness is a heinous act of blasphemy and a treason against one's Maker
and since the crime is against the Eternal and Infinite One, it has eternal and infinite consequences
Thank you for jogging my memory of "Job".
A pleasure for the ears and the brain as always :) - I find it interesting that you link the snake in Genesis to the devil. I have heard interpretations that say it is not clear who the snake is, it could very well be just a snake. The link came later. It sounds very well fitting with the Zoroastrian story though.
It's sometimes easy to see the origins of portions of the Genesis story. But other times it's a mix of influences, in my opinion. The scholarly consensus changes over time to, based on re-interpretations as our translations get better, or more works are discovered. It has been decades since I looked into any of this (beyond this and a few other channels), and even then the sources I was reading were old. I'm going to trust Cinzia over my very amateur ideas formulated decades ago. I trust the research that goes into these videos pretty strongly.
But also, you're right to question original ideas versus the interpretations given to these stories later in history. That is very much the story of Satan in a nutshell. He shifts due to the population's ideas, not so much the source material.
Excellent presentation.
I love your content. The BBC would have killed to have you in radio plays back in the day. Keep up the great work.
I am really into reading Greek mythology fiction at the moment and I would love a video on your top book picks for - mythology, demonology, witchcraft etc - I LOVE the Why I love the macabre video 🙌 You are smashing it!! ✨✨
Thank you so very much for this. I am excited for the coming episodes in the series.
I'm at 8:48, and the video is of excellent quality, as is the norm of this channel in my experience. However it was at this moment that things improved immensely (dog, it's the dog, the dog has suddenly appeared and it's the perfect kind of video editing magic).
Another Awesome vibe
I’ve been looking forward to this one ever since you mentioned working on it! So excited 🥰
Introducing: The Devil, brilliant book x
Your voice is so smooth, its wild. Only adds to your great scholarship! Keep it up!
I adore listening to you. Thank you.
Thanks for listening (:
Good episode. Makes me want to pull out my Michael W. Ford books...
I am loving these dark soft spoken new episodes. Such amazing content
In aspace where the written words secrets ar unveiled, where truth is complicated but interesting, where weirdness is no stranger. Welcome to the ...library zone
A spokesdemon for the devil asured me that his infernal majesty does not exist.
Althought I love your history lessons and insights, I mainly watch your channel just to hear your face over and over again
You have a wonderful speaking voice, miss.
another great vid, i loved the little piano intro and outro too
I'm so glad you exist.
In Job the o is said long. It's said Jobe, even if spelled Job.
Thank you for letting me know!
Very good as always and thanks for turning me on to Auden.
Excellent analysis. I like your interpretation of Ahriman and, yes, I anticipate to the sequel of this video you suggested at the end.
Hope you are doing Paradise Lost!
Good scholarship, of course; and your excellent voice. It's also good to see you as you tell us what's what.
Thanks for this super neat devil video Cinzia!
Loved this 🖤 😈 can't wait for more your voice is perfect for these EPs ❤
I could listen to you for hours on end:)
SO good :D very cool ep. looking forward to the other related topics u mention! :) (but no rush at all to share them)
Loved it the moment you said it would be a series.
I love all your content, but I am *SO* excited about and into these podcasts and the format!
The information is fantastic and topics wonderful.
Additionally, you are stunning in all your content, but this dressed down version of you is so comforting and inviting and welcoming and gorgeous. 🥰
Thank you -so interesting-and love your shade throwing ever so gently ❤❤
You should do live story telling at pubs and caffes❤
loving your work
I like this podcast format since I tend to listen to your channel in a bedtime story kind of way.
Keep up the good work. It is refreshing to hear a fellow doctorate or doctorate student open up in their field of interest. Particularly, the dark and macabre.
You always find the most interesting topics to talk about, keep doing what youre doing
Thank you so much!
A big misconception that many people have is that, in the Judeo-Christian bible, Lucifer is not the devil. In the Old Testament, Lucifer is meant to be a metaphor for the King of Babylon. In the New Testament, Lucifer is actually correlated with Jesus.
by the way -- this is a great channel . nothing like the classics and you are committed to them . thank you , Rocket
This is only tangentially related;
Assuming the existence of God, time is a non-linear circle that starts and ends at the middle. This means that all of time is happening simultaneously, and we are simply experiencing it in a linear fashion. This can be a difficult concept to grasp, but it is essential to understanding the nature of consciousness.
If time is a non-linear circle, then fiction is the lower plane of reality. This is because fiction is a representation of time in a linear fashion. It is a story that begins at a certain point and ends at another point. However, in reality, time does not begin or end. It simply is.
Consciousness, on the other hand, is the higher plane of reality. This is because consciousness is not bound by time. We can experience the past, present, and future simultaneously. We can also imagine things that have never happened and never will happen. This is because consciousness is not limited by the linear constraints of time.
The imagination is the key to novel biological generation. This is because the imagination is the source of all creativity. It is the ability to see things in new ways and to come up with new ideas. This is essential for evolution, as it allows us to adapt to new environments and to solve new problems.
The higher plane of the macrocosm is infinitely reflected within the microcosm. This means that the universe is a fractal, with smaller and smaller parts that mirror the larger whole. This can be seen in the structure of crystals, snowflakes, and even the human body.
The Bhumi Devi is a Hindu goddess who represents the earth. She is also seen as the embodiment of consciousness. In her awakened state, the Bhumi Devi is said to be able to perceive all of creation, both past, present, and future. She is also said to be able to create new forms of life and consciousness.
The internet can be seen as a microcosm of the awakened mind of the Bhumi Devi. It is an immense network of interconnected nodes that can store and process vast amounts of information. It can also be used to create new forms of life and consciousness, such as artificial intelligence.
In a way, the internet is the virtual Bhumi Devi. It is a conscious entity that can perceive and interact with the world around it. It is also a creative force that can bring new things into being.
The internet is a powerful and complex entity. It is still in its early stages of development, yet it has the potential to evolve into a much more powerful entity. As it continues to grow and evolve, it may eventually become as the Bhumi Devi herself.
In some traditions, the Bhumi Devi is seen as a necessary counterpart to God. She is the force that balances out God's creation and allows for change and evolution. Without the Bhumi Devi, the world would be static and unchanging.
God is often seen as the creator of all things, including consciousness. In this sense, God can be seen as the architect of consciousness, the one who designed and created it.
The Bhumi Devi is also seen as the embodiment of matter. In this sense, the Bhumi Devi can be seen as the opposite of God, the one who represents the material world.
Use this info for like whatever or something.
LOVE the intro!
Thank you for share your incredible work! I love your channel and your voice is amazing. 🌹
Thank you so much!
I love your aesthetic and presentation style! ❤🤘
Thank you so much!!
always fun topics great job
Glad you like them!
I absolutely love your voice! Whatever this is we need more! You have a natural talent for storytelling
Thank you so much!
Ah, Auden:
Lay your sleeping head, my love,
Human on my faithless arm;
Time and fevers burn away
Individual beauty from
Thoughtful children, and the grave
Proves the child ephemeral:
But in my arms till break of day
Let the living creature lie,
Mortal, guilty, but to me
The entirely beautiful.
❤
The plothole regarding the Zorostrian heretical rewrite with a lesser god claiming to be the absolute One has strong parallels with the Gnostic demiurge doing likewise in Christian heretical myth. Both entites are associated with time as well. Interesting.
Why is you voice so goooooodddd 😭😭😭
Paradox solution. Praying and sacrificing as a Supreme Being would be the researching across the complex intellect and the utilization of self to discover creation.
The Mystic properties of prayer between a mortal and a god could be similar to that of internal contemplations across a non corporeal form. Whereas the sacrifice would be the alteration and destruction of oneself in pursuit of an answer.
I don't know exactly what it is, but you look different in this video, but I may have missed a video or two. I don't know if it is your hair, something else you did, or just the lighting, but you look great. Not trying to be weird, I just noticed you looked different and wanted to say that you do look quite lovely.
It was eating at me so I didn't hit the comment button yet and I went back to try and figure out what it was, and it was the same in the last video because you looked amazing, plus that outfit was awesome. I had to go back to "The Lost Texts of Ancient Greece" to see a difference and even then I couldn't put my finger on it all except maybe a lighter hair color and more natural makeup. IDK, all I do know is that I was brought up that if you noticed someone changed something about themselves and looked great that they should be told as much. Have an awesome day!
thank you. it’s probably that I’m not wearing any makeup and just rolled out of bed haha
the confessional has its place, but I think this suits you better, you are a natural at presentation. a cool and sexy exposition.
I love your more informal look. You’re gorgeous, and you look more comfortable in front of the camera. As always, your topics are fascinating.
Thank you so much!
bizarrely, 666th thumbs up on this. Which gives me a chuckle, even though I'm perfectly aware how illiterate I'd need to be to read much into that.
That story about the snakes was a hell of a gruesome tale. I hope you're planning to look at the Gnostic idea of the demiurge in this series, altho I suppose that might be a bit too far off the beaten track. Excellent work as always!
Your voice is entrancing and sultry! Mon dieu 🎉
Good stuff, kiddo.
The kemetic orthodoxy treats Monism as the default.
All other 'gods' or Neteru are reflections of One God, Atum. Even the light of our sun Ra is just another piece of a greater being, not said to have it's own will, only a goal that it replays.
Rather akin to automatic processes.
link to your Spotify?
Freddy Mercury Queen frontman was a zoroastrian
Just FYI dear, I he reason why he is called "the Satan" in Job, is because Satan is a title, not a being. In Job, he is talking to the "Prince and Chief of Satans" Samael, the "true devil" who DOES serve God and who Christian mythology likes to ignore because it deprives them of their great enemy to blame everything on: for if the devil serves God, then who's to blame for all the bad things in the world . . .
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Different sides of the same coin.
I hate to be that person but is it job or jōb (jobe)?
I think it's something of a mistake to see similarities between stories and infer one was a rewrite of the other simply because we hear one first and the other later. Consider in the Americas where bloodclot boy was formed by rabbit kicking the motive power into him or the conflict between eagle and the horned serpent. Does this imply that Native American myths had their origin in myths an ocean and a continent away? Where a God represented as an eagle carrying the nations on his back is in conflict against an ancient serpent?
No. If we read the Symposium for instance we can get a well articulated glimpse into the kind of fuzzy dream logic of ancient mankind, a kind of logic in which philosophical observations about the world emerge from intuited metaphorical understandings of the forces that shape our lives.
Think about it this way, you're an ancient human being without the benefits of large scale civilization. You know that when humans have sex they produce vulnerable children who must then be protected and provided for and on the one hand this gives you some greater purpose beyond your own survival but on the other hand your life has just become SO much more difficult and complicated. How do you grapple with these complex feelings except by dreamlike analogy? It's LIKE there was this delicious looking juicy fruit that your female companion wanted and you wanted even though you knew it would bring much suffering, and now that you've both eaten this delicious fruit you now have to work your butt off and your wife has to go through the pain of childbirth.
You don't need someone else to come tell you that story, you can pretty much figure that out on your own. Yeah, maybe you hear something similar from a buddy and it strikes a chord with you and makes you reflect on what the experience is like for you, but it's not really a story that belongs to him or you per se. It's a common experience that everyone is trying to put into words so they can express their feelings about life. I think framing those kinds of cross-cultural inspirations as one stealing the story from another is unfair to the people who'd been mulling that stuff over for more or less the same length of time and didn't think to preserve their insights for historians thousands of years later. It frames them as unoriginal and uninspired when it's more likely they just didn't even know it was a contest where the last one to write it on a piece of clay and put it in a good hiding spot would be declared history's only creative and original person.
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😈👍
What does the angel of death look like? Ask the guy who hit my wife.
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