DON'T Upgrade to a BIGGER Turbo unless... // (Honda Accord - Toyota Supra)
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- čas přidán 23. 11. 2023
- WHY do so many car enthusiasts spend so much time, money and energy modifying their 10th Gen Honda Accord, MKV Toyota GR Supra, or ANY other turbocharged car, only to SELL it soon after?!? In this video, I'll go through the TOP 2 REASONS why car enthusiasts end up parting out and selling their performance cars. I'll give you a hint - one reason has a lot to do with disappointment and unreal expectations regarding the benefits and performance gains of upgrading your turbo to a BIGGER TURBO!!! How does a bigger turbo impact YOUR real world driving experience? What are you giving up in return for higher peak horsepower and torque? Is upgrading your turbo right for YOU?
#hondaaccord #modifiedcars #toyotasupra
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You’re right!!!
Most people are using this as car as their daily driver. Making the car drive differently is a big concern that I have. That’s why I stopped before adding a bigger turbo. I saw your videos and knew fbo without upgrading turbo was enough for me.
I see a lot of people talking about gr86 needing a turbo but it sounds like it would completely change the way the car drives and handles.
Good for you for being honest about how you feel. Thanks for great feedback.
Thank you! Just trying to provide some unbiased information to help people make a decision that’s right for them 👍
This is a great conversation to have. This is like a drug addict, the thing he’s after is his first high. Unfortunately, I will never happen. Though you move up in power, it will never satisfy your hunger for how it makes you feel. More money, more projects, more dead ends, at the end of the day, love what you have and enjoy your achievement
Hey lemon bro, you make some good points in this vid and definitely think it would be beneficial to lay out the pros and cons via Dyno graph on the different turbos.
Also I think I beat this with a dead horse but I think what even would be more useful is sharing what ktuner settings you use and your experiences/thought processes between the choices would greatly benefit the 10th Gen community as well as add the content to the channel and sparse knowledge that's on Google already🙏
I think it would as well… definitely in an upcoming video 👍
Great video, love the honesty! Keep em coming
I’m glad you like the video 👍. And thank you for your supportive comment 😁
Totally agree! Would be a great idea to lay all of em down and see the results! The only reason i didnt go mhi stage 2 is cuz i didnt want to loose the low end torque!
I really don't think some enthusiasts think about what they're giving up when going to a bigger turbo - for some, I'm sure it will fit their expectations, but for many... they're going to be shocked!
Agree completely. Most people only consider the peak power. That only matters if you actually drive at that rpm. You should care about the numbers at the RPMs you spend your time.
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Would love to see that comparison video on the diff turbos. Currently running a 2018 touring with Phearable stage 3. It's excellent just as is. Will be adding the intercooler upgrade as the seasons change warmer in the spring. Thanks for these videos!
Did you ever track it ? My best time is 13.44 @ 103 with a 0-60 of 5 seconds flat on my stage 3. Best mph was 104.99. I want to do drag radials and stage 4 next and go for 12 seconds on the stock turbo.
@@HondaAccordPerformance never have tracked it...would like to at some point although I just got the car in August with 54k miles. Was stock throughout all those miles as previous owner did no mods.
Great presentation and very important reality check.
As I’ve been exploring a turbo upgrade for my TLX 2.0T in 2024, one of my requirements is that I don’t experience any degradation in drivability and reliability. If that means never making the upgrade then so be it.
@@MidnightAspecu can go fk8 turbo as that would give u the more comparable driveability to the oem 2.0 turbo but more peak powa as well
On the Type R the Kuro or Mitsubishi Stage 2 will keep it somewhat stock feeling in terms of when the power gets delivered. On the Accord the FK8 Turbo is perfect. Once you start going bigger, it will feel much much different. The power delivery starts way later like you said and you don't have a ton of opportunities to get the car reved up that high and safely hit the speeds needed. A little bit bigger than oem is the way to go.
I’m sure some people will be happy with the big turbo, but many will not 🫤🤷♂️
I’ve been following you for quite a while now. I appreciate everything you’ve done. Keep up the good work. It sounds to me like you’re on the fence about having upgraded your turbo and losing that immediate power. Your setup is possibly 90% equal to mine. I’m on my 6th revision w/Derek R.
I’ve also experienced that loss up front and I’ve found myself waiting for that boost before overtaking vehicles. At first it was disappointing but like you’ve said in the video, adjusting is key. As in a manual transmission, now I have to down shift in order to quickly react and overtake vehicles. But all in all I do the regret my decision and yes you have to really think it through. Do you want something quick and around town or do you want something you’ve created and have to work at getting it to that sweet spot. It’s nice when you’re going down the highway and a Lexus/Mercedes or an Infinity rolls up and creeps up and you dust’em like nothin’.
Find the sweet spot and avoid the rabbit holes.
Big Fan!!!!
Correction….I do NOT regret upsizing the turbo. 😂
Thank you! I really appreciate the support 😁. Actually, I’m quite happy with my choice of turbo. However, I’ve learned from past mistakes. Hopefully someone will see this video and consider the trade offs before chasing after the big turbo 🤷♂️.
Did you change the flywheel? The type R flywheel weighs about half as much and is supposed to help with the lag.
Only issue with comparing stock vs different setups is that these graphs are mostly all WOT where as it would be super beneficial to see maybe a 10% throttle pull or 20% under 4k rpm. Switching from the accord 2.0 to the civic Type R, daily driving absolutely the accord just gets it done. By the time you are going onto 2nd gear on the fk8 the accord is already at the speed limit cruising and you still have to shift into 3rd 4th 5th for the 40mph speed limit. So I could only imagine having an even larger turbo. But when you are wot.. it's a different story.. like you said Chad.. especially above 5k rpm the accord gives up.. tosses in the towel. It's done. My stock honda element pulls the same 5-7k as the accord does.. (that's really bad) but the civic with the larger turbo pulls harder and harder to the point that you hit the rev limiter and say ah dang it was just warming up.. where as the accord you are watching the tach hoping the next gear will actually happen lol
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Great video, most people don't understand what a bigger turbo will do.
Sometimes it takes a shot to the wallet, and some wasted time for people to figure it out the hard way 🤷♂️. To be clear, I’m not knocking going to a big turbo, as long as you know what to expect in doing so.
Has anyone done a fl5 turbo on an Accord yet? I was looking at doing that with a downpipe and HVI. Looks like an inexpensive way to go, the fl5 from the dealers is about $1000.
I have an FK8 Turbo left over from a 27Won KURO upgrade that I’m considering installing on my son’s Accord 2.0t but remember seeing a Hondata video online where they were claiming that the newer FL5 Turbo installed in the Accord delivered power more consistently across the entire rev band.Having said all of that…I personally question the idea of modifying any vehicle/platform without first comparing the total cost of upgrades(FBO parts,tunes,wheels,etc.)to purchasing/financing a factory engineered car such as the Corvette or Supra which is a turn key hot rod/track car. I’m speaking from experience regarding modifying a Type R with 12-15 in mods/labor as opposed to financing a factory engineered vehicle with far superior performance. Just my 2 cents regarding modding any vehicle…sometimes it’s hard to beat a factory engineered vehicle that they spent millions to develop/engineer in order to increase reliability/durability.
I think the idea of comparing oem to other turbos is a great idea. I for one have a 2018 2.0t manual and honestly I'm really only looking for off the line speed and quick passing on the freeway. Not looking for a daily racer, just a quick car when I need it. I don't like to be behind people. That said I've already done most of the easy upgrades so I'm looking to see if I want to do a turbo.
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+1 on the turbo comparison!
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I think having a dyno graph that shows the oem turbo along with a couple other turbos layered on is a fantastic idea. Im debating whether to go with the 27won kuro for slightly more top end or the type r turbo for slightly more low end. It would be really interesting to see the rpm differences on how the power comes in.
It is very interesting to see the differences 👍
I have an upgraded p700 turbo with meth injection on my accord 2.0t and it doesn’t sacrifice any type of drivability. It still drives like stock but a bit faster. The thing with selling the car afterward, which is what I’m going to do also, is that at this point there’s nothing else I can upgrade. I’ve reached the end of the line and like many other people it’s time to move onto something else than I can push harder than the accord.
Can you give feedback on drivers who actually use paddles in the first place to allocate power through the rev range when driving the car sporty. I’m in the acura tlx 2.0 just bought the mhi stage two and most times when I demand any performance the car is in all is manual and sport modes. Thoughts on that driver vs the average I like to go fast guy. I have a racing sim for ridiculous stuff
Yup I did a big ish turbo on my Audi A4, the smallest big turbo I could get, but… under 4k rpms there’s almost no power, which if I wasn’t daily driving the car I wouldn’t mind but since I do, when I drive inside the city it gets very annoying
I've been looking at ktuner ots stage 2 and phearable stage 3 graphs and the torque down in the RPM makes me believe I'm ok staying with the stage 2.
I have no complaints with the Type-R turbo on my Accord so far after almost 10k miles. If i want to have more response, I just leave it in sport mode and it really spools quickly.
Ive been thinking of doing this swap how noticeable is the drop in torque in the low end? I do sometimes alot of city driving and having it is super nice, right now im completely stock with just a phearable stage 3, also what tune did you put after your swap?
@@rdaplaumax9289 I run the MHI CTR turbo, and the loss in low end torque is minimal and I absolutely love the car with the big snail
I would argue the loss in power under 3500 RPMs with the MHI Stage 2 is substantial compared to a tuned OEM Accord turbo. Whether the difference is acceptable is subjective.
@JoseRivera-li8tr - well that’s the thing… the Type R turbo is the smallest “Big” turbo for the Accord.
@@TheLemonFactor I certainly did not want a laggy experience, so I am happy with the choice not to go too big
trev2.0cv2. my goal was to make my car nicer. I'm FBO fk8 turbo E30 drob tuned and I'm very happy with my daily. I do always drive in sport more. The car is laggy in normal mode. And the fk8 turbo is a relatively small big turbo. Midrange in sport mode is phenomenal and joyful though. And I also got better gas mileage in my 2016 V6 Accord touring. I still love my 21 Accord sport 2.0 though.
what kind of gas mileage are you getting?
Hope you and your family had a great Thanksgiving.
We did - Thank you, Kent! Hopefully you did as well? Don’t like the snow and freezing temps this morning, but I guess it’s something I’m going to have to get used to once again 🫤
I do not think people are selling parts in the vehicle because they do not like it. The thing is with the accord being only front wheel drive you can only take the upgrades so far and what people I see are doing because I have a few friends who have done their accords with meth and upgraded Turbos is they cap out and are switching to the b58 platform. I haven’t started upgrading mine but plan to do fbo and upgraded turbo and flex fuel. I eventually am going to switch to bmw also but not the m340i. For car enthusiasts, true car enthusiasts, the process of upgrading and custom tailoring the car to your specific likes is the thrill and the passion. Then when u upgrade or switch to a new platform you can recoup a little bit of that money back by selling the parts.
FL5 turbo might be something to look into, I hear that it's more responsive than FK8. So it's a bigger turbo than the stock accord, and smaller than the FK8? Could be a good compromise for people who want to upgrade but want to keep that responsiveness.
If you’re looking to stay as close to the Accords OEM turbos power curve, the FL5 is currently your best bet for a drop in turbo 👍
This has me a bit scared. I originally wanted a MHI stage 2 but I always did suspect it would mean a loss of lower range power. Maybe the base CTR turbo is all I need.
It’s definitely worth thinking about, before you make your decision.
Hey Quick Question, for the stage 4 pherbale tune can I sometimes just put 91 and sometimes do the blend or i always have to do that blend ?
Good question. When you're not running an ethanol blend, the tune behaves just like the Phearable Stage 3, which means you don't always have to run ethanol.
I'd rather just have a prl v2 intake and misamoto inner cooler and stage 3 tune from phareble all you need and you can get by with just the tune and intake
Phearable Stage 3 and an upgraded intercooler for the win. The air intake doesn't add much, unless you like to hear the turbo sounds.
I've learned my lesson from my built car being stolen and buying someone else's polished modified turd.... I keep my stuff OEM, and if not, I'll build from the ground up. Cheers
I love how this video was exactly the comment I made on your last video. But for some reason I was told I obviously don't own this car and don't know what I'm talking about. So I'll repeat it again. Anything beyond beyond 350-400hp makes the honda accord unusable on the road. The worst part is the greatest accord tuner of all time Derek Robinson will never admit it or caution people on this. The amount of accords I've seen on cars and bids with the exact same copy paste tune and mods from Derek Robinson says it all. Do some research before splashing out the cash cause most people will gladly take your money and run
The comment you just made here is NOT what is in the video. Either you didn’t watch the video in full, or you’re selectively taking parts of the video out of context.
@TheLemonFactor no you mentioned big turbo makes it undeliverable in real world scenarios. Which is anything under 60 mph which I mentioned in previous video
@kaplandg *sigh* rewatch the video
@TheLemonFactor I watched all of it. People are selling their cars because of what you said. When they do upgrades without research and it drastically changes their on street behavior they then sell it. I'm looking forward to sew your car on cars and bids in 6 months
Question so if I run a dual stage 2 ktuner with just a down pipe, inlet pipe and intake is that enough? Or will this stress the moter
U will be fine, ive been running phearable stage 4 with e30 tune for the last 86k miles nd no issues
Bigger turbo means you need more exhaust gases to spool up the turbine i.e more throttle input and now driveability is altered.
Oem turbo is perfect for daily driving
A lot of people just upgrade them during a lease and they mess it up then part out make some money back and then some random dude or chick that has no idea what they are getting into ends up buying it thinking it’s great but it isn’t it happened to one of my friends they bought a car that we use to service at our shop and they car was flagged it was a m340 after a month of going back and forth the issue the car had was repaired under warranty after the car was given a tamper proof on literally every bolt to ensure it wasn’t modified anymore so my friends gf wanted to buy one ends up going to a different dealership that is selling the car that was recently flagged her boyfriend “inspected” the car said it was great then 3 months later they come in asking me for help cause the car is malfunctioning bad turns out it was the same car we flagged and he noticed it was tamper proofed and didn’t think anything about it so when we told him well you can imagine how pissed his was but that’s what happens most times plus even though they are my friends they never said they wanted to buy the car from our dealership other wise I would have checked the vehicle history.
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I’ve always asked myself the same thing.
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Thanks I just got my 21 2.0t and I might not even do a bigger turbo anymore lol
My intent was not to deter anyone, but rather to inform them of what they may be getting into.
@TheLemonFactor hey is there any turbo for 10th gen accord tht will give the power gains but will also produce that power in low and high rpms?
Which turbo is worth upgrading to when you truly want to upgrade and not lose any type of performance compared to the OEM Honda turbo?
That depends upon how you’re defining loss of performance compared to OEM?
@TheLemonFactor In your video, you said different ways of loss in performance, and that's what I don't want.
@aztecninja77 if you like the low end torque of the stock turbo, you’ll lose some, to a lot of that depending on the size of your turbo upgrade. In return you’ll gain more power higher in the RPMs, but this may not be where you’re spending a lot of your driving time 🤷♂️
@TheLemonFactor Only on the highway, and I do spend more highway time than street.
I need a
Bigger turbo for my 22’ 1.5 accord sport.
If its a manual go for it, if its the auto cvt, dont do it!
The reliability ⬇️ because a lot of people upgrade these turbos and kill the shit out of the car, every car has a lifespan and if you’re killing your car every day you drive it welll… that life span shortens! & some people don’t like it like you said, I’m one of them lol! I ruined my 8th gen civic chasing power
I would argue that as long as you don’t beat on your car all the time and do regular maintenance like oil changes more frequently it will stay reliable. I had a Trailblazer SS that was procharged everyone was saying the stock trans wouldn’t hold and it did and I had it to 150k miles. Just gotta take care of your stuff oil changes, transmission fluid changes, get a trans cooler, change out the coolant, etc. And don’t beat on the car when it’s cold that’s the worst thing anyone can do.
Keeping the boost / power reasonable and staying on top of the maintenance goes a long way 👍
This platform has been known to be bulletproof and chad here knows what he is doing, not chasing power as u say😂u will mess up anything if u blindly chase power, gotta know what ur doing man
There's alot of truth in this post. The vast majority of owners of cars use them on the street, not the track, yet many youtube comparisons determine winners by track performance. When I had my C5 Corvette, we had dyno days and "mountain runs". These events allowed us to attain bragging rights and the thrill of hitting 120 MPH on back-country roads. Those who brought a passenger were subjected to screaming (wives) or having to stop along the way to allow the passenger to barf. One guy let his 17 year-old son drive. They ended up totaling the car after smashing into a tree.
The stock Supra has plenty of power for the street, and I'm still holding back while getting to the break-in miles (1200). Perhaps it is forcing me to really learn the capabilities of it in baby steps. That is inevitably a good thing.😊
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Definitely wouldn't upgrade the Turbo on an Automatic transmission Accord but to each his own
I’m happy with mine, but certainly wouldn’t want to go bigger for a daily driven street car.
@@TheLemonFactor, Not because it wouldn't be fun. I would've afraid the Trans couldn't handle the extra power and I don't want to know what a new one cost lol
@thinkforyourself5672 hopefully I’ll never know how expensive 😉
@@thinkforyourself5672these trans are known to keep up all the way upto 530whp which is more than 600hp so u shouldnt be worried, its not a cvt. If you have a 1.5 tho then yup keep it stock
@@desioasis2378, I have an FK8. Definitely wouldn't do it with a CVT. I wasn't sure how robust these Trannys are. I just know from past experiences that non performance cars with automatic transmissions don't usually handle a lot of extra power very well.
It’s the damn transmission. Can’t be tuned kills its 60-130 time. It also sucks at launching
Leave it alone. I learned from my S2000 that Honda knows what they're doing. 240hp natural aspirated from a 2 liter is as good as it gets. Anything beyond becomes forced induction and tweaks to the tune. Look at all the $'s you spent on BS and in the end it was really the tune and the turbo that could have summed up this entire series. You've drastically now reduced the life of that engine by ramping up the tune to maximize boost. And playing with fuel mixture is just way over the top. Then you threw on a larger turbo that compounded every problem the original smaller turbo had. IMOP you should have bought the manual transmission and enjoyed the engineering that Honda poured into it much as they did with the S2000 and 90's NSX. My problem with this project was -- Is this intended to make a race car or kick in the butt daily driver we can get some practical longevity from? I think it fell flat of both.
Thanks for leaving your comment. Sorry to hear that the channel is not for you 🤷♂️
@@TheLemonFactor it was interesting. My suggestion was to be clear about whether you're trying to go to the track or build a car that will hold up and not have us fueling up with ethanol for our family sedan. Or is it more about the potential of the K20C4? I've owned the S2000 and the 18' Accord Sport so I think that's a fair assessment. Like any project you spell out the goals. You tell me you're building a sleeper sedan and going to the track I watch accordingly. Tell me how I make a kick butt car go faster when I drop off my kids I watch from a different viewpoint. There's faster cars than this example, you've got one parked next to it, so are you going racing with summer tires on a car intended for road trips?
@csteger1201 - what are you talking about? 😂 Why would I sell the Accord? I’m perfectly happy with what I’ve done with this platform and sincerely doubt that I’ll have a catastrophic failure 🙄.
The 2.0 engine has been known to survive wayyyy more abuse than this and still run over 150k miles so not sure what u on about talking about decreasing the life of the engine😂, at best he has actually increase the life of that trans by not having crazy low end torque all the time🤦♂️s2000 is a whole different beast and these 2 got nothing in common😂 btw multiple people have boosted s2ks making over 1k hp while they have over 100k mile blocks🤦♂️
@desioasis2378 👍
Lemon Factor, if he works in his car 5 hours , he did 100 hours of research.
90 percent sold cause they got something else
You’re not wrong… 😉