I still think its funny that 3 land raiders, 2 predators, 2 vindicators, 2 whirlwinds, a scout unit and 3 tech marines all just happen to fit in a list
Glad I realized that lethal hits can be amazing against vehicles. I was playing Black Templars against a taus battle suits, and they said “good luck taking out my vehicles.” They didn’t realize how I was criting on 5s and I had lethal/sustain hits. I made short work on his vehicles.
I love skew lists it’s a ton of fun, I like all infantry guard and all baneblades variants. I usually don’t play it in competition but in casual games you give them a heads up.
My main army is currently Chaos Knights, but I've also got World Eaters and working on Death Guard. One of the guys at my LGS was apprehensive about playing the CKs after our first game we'd done where it went poorly for him. He told me he didn't know how to fight them, so I walked him through it suggesting higher ap and lethal hits for his Black Templar army. We did another game after that, and it could not have been closer, coming down to Grimaldus with some Sword Bretheren against a Karnivore, with the latter holding them back from the last point in turn 5. We practically tabled each other, and a good chunk of that was unexpectedly the grenades stratagem dumping mortals into my Knights.
Went crusher stampede into necrons, the Cron player didn't bring anything str 10 or above. So I just steamrolled the player. turn 2 they had 2 units left. I find that he went through the stages of stat check. 1. get steam rolled 2. feel disappointed 3. full swing pendulum list, he brought shard, 2 doomsday ark and 3 doom stalkers. 4. lost again because I used a normal army next game and he can only pick up 12 infantry a turn. 5 now makes balanced list.
When he brings a balanced list next time roll Crusher again because balance lists mostly lose against skew lists lol (depending on the mission and terrain)
I really liked how you relayed this information. I enjoyed it, it felt like a conversation even if it's staged in a way to just get over some bulletpoints and mull em over. Really enjoyed that. Felt like hearing two of my favorite grognards at a table chatting it up.
So this is about stats checking. Great advice something a lot of people don't bring is just about half the factions in game are space Marines and most factions you play against are elite infantry. So I know the 3 land raiders, the Jurassic Orks and the nids swarms are spooky just don't forget most things you play against are in power armor.
Here I’m just a custodes player who had to learn salamanders because my friends are tired of being stat-checked. Hard to blame them when the base custodes stat line is basically a terminator. An army of terminators is a lot to deal with before we start talking about the caladius tank.
A good future topic. Discuss building a Tournement Ready 2000 pt list and the ideology & thought process on what to take to have an "Answer" for the possible likely match ups you might see. Then talk about that one time someone took a list no one expected AKA that necron list that won LVO as no one expected it.
You guys have to be the best duo to make 40K table top content. Please keep up the good work. What you guys have going on is working. I don’t know whose idea this channel was. But it’s amazing so far!
You have 3 landraiders, 3 units of max wraiths, before it was 3 units of ATVs, 3 units of bladeguard, etc, I've always said this, MAX 2 UNITS, there doesn't need to be 3 of a unit in your army unless it's battleline. GW changes that rule, it will solve a ton of problems.
Sitting and building my second box of gargoyles as youtube suggested this vid for me, and they will soon join my 120 termagants. :D I knew when I started my Tyranid army I just wanted a ton of swarmy bugs, because that’s what was coolest in my mind!
Thank you for mentioning that hordes are also stat check armies. I've seen a lot of people in delusion in various topics complaining about knights over the years that seem to think stat check armies are only big, durable/killy units, when the reality its all about the "stat" thing and horde can be straight up unbeatable as well if you don't have high volume of attacks/shots/blast, in your list.
Great video! 3000 point game, my Dark Angels vs my brothers Necrons. My brother had 5 x 20 man squads of warriors and 3 monoliths 😂 we didn't have time to finish but holy smokes I had a hard time dealing with all those warriors! We're both pretty new players, he's been a collector for a long time. It was a fun game!
My vanguard list has 2 repulsor executioners, 10 heavy intercessors, and 6 eradicators I build around. What’s funny about this stat check is stacking AP in my meta.
I run 2 Land Raiders with Terminators inside, supported by 2 Redemptor Dreadnoughts and Techmarines. Does that make me a jerk? I never thought of multiple Land Raiders as a stat check or douchy thing.
I got statchecked by a BA player, man did 3 units of Death company assaults with jumps and sang priests (one being lemartes of course) and since all of them had power fists, and one had an enhancement to do lance. I as an imperial knight player died by 55 ap 2's on two of my 3 knights lol. Statchecking with volume and speed is what I have learned blood angels do really well and figuring out how to deal with that stuff is harder than Ap statchecking
Sang priest or Chaplain. I am assuming chaplain as only Chaplains can be attached to Death Company. However I can say I played a game against my buddies CK I am. BA player I did in one charge phase bring a big Dominus class down to 9 wounds remaining with 50 power swords and and 6 crozius smacks
I guess it's different in a competitive vs casual environment. In a tournament anything goes really, casual I think people should be sensitive to the need of everyone involved enjoying the next 4 or so hours!
This is a very good point and something we actually didn't bring up. going to a tournament and bringing this kind of stuff is expected. But over Friday night 40k and beers, its not as fun. Unless your training for something i guess. Sadly some armies like Imperial Knights or Chaos Knights don't really have a lot of options on things to bring to the table. Those armies can just naturally give headaches. also its always fun to offer your friend a "can you deal with 100 ork boyz?" kind of warning and then see what they come up with.
It is an issue, when playing the game with all the models that you think look cool ( and DAAYYM those chaos knights look good) and it just happens to be a bad time for someone else. BUT at least your recognizing it, hopefully people find a way to deal with those monstrosities.
@@hyperspacehobbies it's a great time to teach especially newer players how to deal with a knights list or a skew list in general. Same with my plague marine rhino spam. Awesome content btw!!!
Its a great army, but can have a hard time dealing with some of the objective heavy secondary's and Positional/ Action secondary's. but as far as packing a wallop and staying on the table its top tear.
Also beware of Orks, most list will run at least Mozrog who absolutely tears through large units. Combine a 4+ invuln and a 5+ FNP (IIRC). I've seen him tear through a Chaos Daemon monster mash list by soloing 2 of the 4 Greater Daemons so keep him away from them.
I trying to balance a list into the awakening dynasty necron. I build my army around it so I have 60 necron warrior bought cheaply. I put a chronomancer with the "I lead you" aura and 10 warrior into a ghost ark so they can shoot and reembark. So it brings 20 reaper shot 3+ + 10 shot(20 in rapid fire) of boat on 2+. Beside I use 2 20 warriors blob with royal warden and techno for fall back and shoot and charge and extra resiliency one with stealth. That bring the count to 80 rapid fire shot(half in long distance). Two immortals squad with tesla and plasmancer. Two reanimator 2 squad of Deathmarks for free shooting in 18" deepstrike and have to split fire to kill both. Illuminor, Imhotek with 5 lychguard and one lokhust destroyer to prevent deepstrike while one of my immortal waiting to veil. That is pure volume and the fact that I can reroll hit roll and shoot outside of my turn if I lose one squad over potential the shot. They get AP-1 against them and AP+ outside. I usually save on 3+ if I use cover it's like a free and permanent armor of contempt. If I use a Strat with illuminor the warrior have some -2ap S5 combat weapon which starting to wound terminator. It's not the best but I can down some monster and vehicule pretty easily with that.
As a DG player I don't have a tonne of anti vehicle so while I'm getting it in position to get a shot or charge off I just move block with heaps of Poxwalkers.
Just played a GT. I had a stat check GSC infantry list. My final game was against a stat check Nidzilla list with 3 norn emissaries. That ended up being a super easy win because i just avoided his big bugs and outscored him on secondaries.
Talk about stat check! It was funny at LVO: I played Grey Knights...no vehicles at all. I went 3-3 amazing for my first LVO. People would have all these anti vehicle weapons, and all it did was kill a terminator per round.
My guard army is exactly this but with can you deal with this much ap 1 and ap 4 plus 190 bodies that respawn are a nightmare the only thing that has fully tabled it is knights with double tank shock and overwatch with the ability to fire over buildings and ruins but I brought down 2 of the big ones and 2 of the little guys.
Between shooting and mele, 5 custodes should delete a blob per turn, also guard cannot retreat and shoot so try to pin them as much as posible. Against orks, valerian is an incredible pick. Most of their attacks will be Ap-1, and saving on 2s will make your infantry almost immortal. Custodes are great rn
I've found that the best way to deal with all of the absolute crap that janky WAAC tournament players pull in Warhams. I don't play Warhams anymore. I switched to One Page Rules Grimdark Future and it's a 100% better version of Warhams because it doesn't have all of the horsesh-t that Stu Black has put into Warhams at the orders of the Little Lords In Lenton.
I don't think I'll ever deal with Knights in a casual setting but as an Ork player what the heck am I supposed to do to fight a knight list of any measure?
My blood angels list has 2 LR Redeemers, each with a 6-blob of aggressors, boltstorm with a Biologis and flamer with a captain. It's pretty fucking brutal.
4 land raiders 3 with las and one with bolters. deal with it ist called a platoon. If you complain about that you should not play wargames and for sure not table top wargames.
I still think its funny that 3 land raiders, 2 predators, 2 vindicators, 2 whirlwinds, a scout unit and 3 tech marines all just happen to fit in a list
.... sitting here building my 80 Termagants and Hormagaunts.... 😬
You ARE the problem hahaha!🤣
Gotta pump those numbers up!
literally the same! batch painting 20 hormagants saying... yes yes. I will stat check you!
Glad I realized that lethal hits can be amazing against vehicles. I was playing Black Templars against a taus battle suits, and they said “good luck taking out my vehicles.” They didn’t realize how I was criting on 5s and I had lethal/sustain hits. I made short work on his vehicles.
I love skew lists it’s a ton of fun, I like all infantry guard and all baneblades variants. I usually don’t play it in competition but in casual games you give them a heads up.
My main army is currently Chaos Knights, but I've also got World Eaters and working on Death Guard. One of the guys at my LGS was apprehensive about playing the CKs after our first game we'd done where it went poorly for him. He told me he didn't know how to fight them, so I walked him through it suggesting higher ap and lethal hits for his Black Templar army. We did another game after that, and it could not have been closer, coming down to Grimaldus with some Sword Bretheren against a Karnivore, with the latter holding them back from the last point in turn 5. We practically tabled each other, and a good chunk of that was unexpectedly the grenades stratagem dumping mortals into my Knights.
Went crusher stampede into necrons, the Cron player didn't bring anything str 10 or above. So I just steamrolled the player. turn 2 they had 2 units left. I find that he went through the stages of stat check.
1. get steam rolled
2. feel disappointed
3. full swing pendulum list, he brought shard, 2 doomsday ark and 3 doom stalkers.
4. lost again because I used a normal army next game and he can only pick up 12 infantry a turn.
5 now makes balanced list.
When he brings a balanced list next time roll Crusher again because balance lists mostly lose against skew lists lol (depending on the mission and terrain)
@@tradingjedi63 you and I have opposite experiences
I really liked how you relayed this information. I enjoyed it, it felt like a conversation even if it's staged in a way to just get over some bulletpoints and mull em over. Really enjoyed that. Felt like hearing two of my favorite grognards at a table chatting it up.
This jank is a symptom of doing away with Force Organization for detachments. That was such a bad move on GWs part.
Agree. Way too much freedom in each detachment, let alone subfactions (SM)
So this is about stats checking. Great advice something a lot of people don't bring is just about half the factions in game are space Marines and most factions you play against are elite infantry. So I know the 3 land raiders, the Jurassic Orks and the nids swarms are spooky just don't forget most things you play against are in power armor.
Here I’m just a custodes player who had to learn salamanders because my friends are tired of being stat-checked. Hard to blame them when the base custodes stat line is basically a terminator. An army of terminators is a lot to deal with before we start talking about the caladius tank.
This was really helpful! Thank you very much…
A good future topic. Discuss building a Tournement Ready 2000 pt list and the ideology & thought process on what to take to have an "Answer" for the possible likely match ups you might see. Then talk about that one time someone took a list no one expected AKA that necron list that won LVO as no one expected it.
You guys have to be the best duo to make 40K table top content. Please keep up the good work. What you guys have going on is working. I don’t know whose idea this channel was. But it’s amazing so far!
You have 3 landraiders, 3 units of max wraiths, before it was 3 units of ATVs, 3 units of bladeguard, etc, I've always said this, MAX 2 UNITS, there doesn't need to be 3 of a unit in your army unless it's battleline. GW changes that rule, it will solve a ton of problems.
I was waiting the whole time for you guys to talk about Custodes. We are also a stat check in many ways.
100% high toughness and 2+ saves all over. Custodes cant help BUT stat check.
Really love the conversational flow between you two! Gonna be following this channel from here on out
Sitting and building my second box of gargoyles as youtube suggested this vid for me, and they will soon join my 120 termagants. :D I knew when I started my Tyranid army I just wanted a ton of swarmy bugs, because that’s what was coolest in my mind!
Thank you for mentioning that hordes are also stat check armies. I've seen a lot of people in delusion in various topics complaining about knights over the years that seem to think stat check armies are only big, durable/killy units, when the reality its all about the "stat" thing and horde can be straight up unbeatable as well if you don't have high volume of attacks/shots/blast, in your list.
"They don't score well" And then you go up against Admech with 18 chickens, with advanced and shoot/charge.
You guys are awesome and sooo much fun!
🤪THANKS!
Great video!
3000 point game, my Dark Angels vs my brothers Necrons. My brother had 5 x 20 man squads of warriors and 3 monoliths 😂 we didn't have time to finish but holy smokes I had a hard time dealing with all those warriors! We're both pretty new players, he's been a collector for a long time. It was a fun game!
THAT is a lot of Warriors. I think anyone would have a hard time dealing with that.
Im halfway done painting my 236 gaunt list
Actually played against that in my last rtt 😂 was something
My vanguard list has 2 repulsor executioners, 10 heavy intercessors, and 6 eradicators I build around. What’s funny about this stat check is stacking AP in my meta.
I wish blast let damage spill over instead of giving one more possible kill per 5 units, personally
2 land raiders and 3 sword bros with judiciar. Fnp vow… spicy
I run 2 Land Raiders with Terminators inside, supported by 2 Redemptor Dreadnoughts and Techmarines.
Does that make me a jerk?
I never thought of multiple Land Raiders as a stat check or douchy thing.
I got statchecked by a BA player, man did 3 units of Death company assaults with jumps and sang priests (one being lemartes of course) and since all of them had power fists, and one had an enhancement to do lance. I as an imperial knight player died by 55 ap 2's on two of my 3 knights lol. Statchecking with volume and speed is what I have learned blood angels do really well and figuring out how to deal with that stuff is harder than Ap statchecking
Sang priest or Chaplain. I am assuming chaplain as only Chaplains can be attached to Death Company. However I can say I played a game against my buddies CK I am. BA player I did in one charge phase bring a big Dominus class down to 9 wounds remaining with 50 power swords and and 6 crozius smacks
I just ran Unending swarm at 1k.. my opponent killed in total when all was said and done, effectively two units, cause I kept ressing my gaunts.
I guess it's different in a competitive vs casual environment. In a tournament anything goes really, casual I think people should be sensitive to the need of everyone involved enjoying the next 4 or so hours!
This is a very good point and something we actually didn't bring up. going to a tournament and bringing this kind of stuff is expected. But over Friday night 40k and beers, its not as fun. Unless your training for something i guess. Sadly some armies like Imperial Knights or Chaos Knights don't really have a lot of options on things to bring to the table. Those armies can just naturally give headaches. also its always fun to offer your friend a "can you deal with 100 ork boyz?" kind of warning and then see what they come up with.
Recently started playing chaos knights and I feel bad sometimes because people get so frustrated
It is an issue, when playing the game with all the models that you think look cool ( and DAAYYM those chaos knights look good) and it just happens to be a bad time for someone else. BUT at least your recognizing it, hopefully people find a way to deal with those monstrosities.
@@hyperspacehobbies it's a great time to teach especially newer players how to deal with a knights list or a skew list in general. Same with my plague marine rhino spam. Awesome content btw!!!
@@nickc9210 Thanks so much!
As a CK and Ork player. A Lot of people don't understand how to go into that matchup
Maybe I'll buy another big knight and just go 4 x big knights 😂
Its a great army, but can have a hard time dealing with some of the objective heavy secondary's and Positional/ Action secondary's. but as far as packing a wallop and staying on the table its top tear.
From personal experience 4 big bois is absolutely not unbeatable even if your opponent didn’t lean into antitank weapons lol
Also beware of Orks, most list will run at least Mozrog who absolutely tears through large units. Combine a 4+ invuln and a 5+ FNP (IIRC).
I've seen him tear through a Chaos Daemon monster mash list by soloing 2 of the 4 Greater Daemons so keep him away from them.
I trying to balance a list into the awakening dynasty necron. I build my army around it so I have 60 necron warrior bought cheaply. I put a chronomancer with the "I lead you" aura and 10 warrior into a ghost ark so they can shoot and reembark. So it brings 20 reaper shot 3+ + 10 shot(20 in rapid fire) of boat on 2+. Beside I use 2 20 warriors blob with royal warden and techno for fall back and shoot and charge and extra resiliency one with stealth. That bring the count to 80 rapid fire shot(half in long distance). Two immortals squad with tesla and plasmancer. Two reanimator 2 squad of Deathmarks for free shooting in 18" deepstrike and have to split fire to kill both. Illuminor, Imhotek with 5 lychguard and one lokhust destroyer to prevent deepstrike while one of my immortal waiting to veil. That is pure volume and the fact that I can reroll hit roll and shoot outside of my turn if I lose one squad over potential the shot. They get AP-1 against them and AP+ outside. I usually save on 3+ if I use cover it's like a free and permanent armor of contempt. If I use a Strat with illuminor the warrior have some -2ap S5 combat weapon which starting to wound terminator. It's not the best but I can down some monster and vehicule pretty easily with that.
My big question is should I play canoptek or should I play awakened dynasty ?
As a DG player I don't have a tonne of anti vehicle so while I'm getting it in position to get a shot or charge off I just move block with heaps of Poxwalkers.
Just played a GT. I had a stat check GSC infantry list. My final game was against a stat check Nidzilla list with 3 norn emissaries. That ended up being a super easy win because i just avoided his big bugs and outscored him on secondaries.
Talk about stat check! It was funny at LVO: I played Grey Knights...no vehicles at all. I went 3-3 amazing for my first LVO. People would have all these anti vehicle weapons, and all it did was kill a terminator per round.
I never knew Space marine Steve had his own channel!!!
Spam is what tournaments about honestly. So it seems to me and most net lists.
My guard army is exactly this but with can you deal with this much ap 1 and ap 4 plus 190 bodies that respawn are a nightmare the only thing that has fully tabled it is knights with double tank shock and overwatch with the ability to fire over buildings and ruins but I brought down 2 of the big ones and 2 of the little guys.
Remind me to avoid you at the next tournament hehehe🤣
@@hyperspacehobbies it's really that hard to avoid that many guardsmen pointing that much plasma at you😜
Titanic Units (Knights) can’t use Overwatch, just as a heads up. Unless you played this right at the start of 10th.
@@Jasha127 yeah I played it at the beginning of the edition and literally got nerfed the weekend after I had to face it 😄
Facing almost 200 orks and gretchin is a nightmare. Same with Guard. As Custodes, I literally don't have enoughbullets DX
Between shooting and mele, 5 custodes should delete a blob per turn, also guard cannot retreat and shoot so try to pin them as much as posible. Against orks, valerian is an incredible pick. Most of their attacks will be Ap-1, and saving on 2s will make your infantry almost immortal. Custodes are great rn
You two are a hilarious couple
Build chaos marines lmao. Give units either sustain or lethal hits with dark pacts. Pick what you need, results ❤
I've found that the best way to deal with all of the absolute crap that janky WAAC tournament players pull in Warhams. I don't play Warhams anymore. I switched to One Page Rules Grimdark Future and it's a 100% better version of Warhams because it doesn't have all of the horsesh-t that Stu Black has put into Warhams at the orders of the Little Lords In Lenton.
I don't think I'll ever deal with Knights in a casual setting but as an Ork player what the heck am I supposed to do to fight a knight list of any measure?
Can you deal with 332 guardsmen?
*Charges up Tesla cannons*
*laughs in sisters*
Not true. 12 Movement. 😊 The little ones. Tyrant 8
My blood angels list has 2 LR Redeemers, each with a 6-blob of aggressors, boltstorm with a Biologis and flamer with a captain. It's pretty fucking brutal.
Not to be that guy but you can’t fit 8 gravis guys in a LRR’s it takes up 18 spaces
@Pine_Appole it's not 8, just 7. One squad of 6 has the captain, the other squad of 6 has the Biologis. Appreciate the check though
@@colbybastian17 oh my bad I read it as both squads get a captain and apothecary. Ignore me please lmao
@Pine_Appole yeah, the biologis in flamestorm is kinda silly XD
10 imperial knights? In this meta? Silly.
Steeeeeve!
First 🎉
I wanted to make a chaos knight army but I don't want to be a dick lol. Any suggestions on a build list combining chaos knights with chaos demons?
the current meta says ure not a dick for playing ck
Concerning the knights: why are people so surprised when a model worth 400-500 points hits like a 400-500 point model.
Grav weapons are trash.
I hate custodes, I hate Knights.
4 land raiders 3 with las and one with bolters. deal with it ist called a platoon. If you complain about that you should not play wargames and for sure not table top wargames.