A beginner's guide to Ferrules
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Prevent controller board meltdowns or fires with these terminal tips!
A detailed guide on how to correctly use ferrules and wires in screw terminals.
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Just started using ferrules. Extermally cheap to get a more professional polished install. Great details on how to do it right. And why / what can happen if you don't. Thanks for explaining why you don't want to use solder wire in a screw down terminal. I didn't think that the micro-fractures in the solder around the wire would cause resistance/heat issues! Again great explanation, illustration and video. One point of feedback. A little repetitive of points you had already made very clear. Could shorten the video getting more viewers to watch it in entirety. Which probably helps get you more CZcams algorithm points.
Haha yeah I need to find someone doing tutorials on keeping thoughts on track. 😅 I truly appreciate the feedback. It'll get better sooner or later.
Man I don't even own a 3D printer but I do other electronics tinkering, and somehow this whole concept was entirely off my radar. I've got so many terminal blocks that need to be upgraded now :D
As someone coming from a similar context, Ferrules are great for the polish of something closer to a finished project but I've found that banana jacks and plugs are great if I'm repurposing a lot of setups or prototyping different iterations of a build. And the fact that test leads from DC supplies often have another banana jack built in means I can extend and isolate power easily or plug a multimeter in for diagnostics.
Video started out great and got even better with your 3D modeling of the ferrules! Excellent work!
Thank you! I almost printed the model but I don't have much of a color option at the moment. I didn't think it would be as nice without some good color variance.
Thanks, I think it's great to show this to the younger gamers, and those who like learning how and why you should do things the right way.
I feel learning why it needs to be done a certain way is so important and too often overlooked. It's often that knowledge that makes it easy to problem solve issues with the system.
I'm an engineer and that was a perfect and very thorough explanation. Thumbs up
Wow, thank you! That truly means a lot.
@@StackingLayers I'm not an engineer, but I am an electronics technician with years of bench time experience and I agree with thetomster7625. Never solder crimp/compression connections. Ferrules are your Friend. etc...
Most of the wire that I've seen (granted where I work we order from reputable wire vendors like Alpha) that have oversized insulation are HV wires. I could see less reputable wire manufacturers trying to fool their customers by oversizing insultation to save on copper.
This is so incredibly helpful and I love your way of explaining things!
I've been doing my ferrules wrong, so I'm glad I watch this!!!
I love how you take your time to explain everything thoroughly, instead of rushing everything to retain the viewer's attention. The two things I learned from this video are 1) Don't overtighten screw terminals and 2) don't twist the wires before crimping. I have to admit that I've done both of these things when I crimped the connections for my Ender 3 last week. Should I take out the board and touch on those solder joints just to make sure they're good again? Manufacturers should probably put a heat sensor on the board in the terminal area just so it can be shut off when things get too hot 😂 But I can imagine they want to produce them as cheaply as possible. Anyway, this got a lot longer than planned. Thanks for the video!
The way I look at it is, it's better to take the time to look and know it's ok instead of it later letting you know that something was wrong. Also no need to loosen things if it all looks good. Most of the time a visual inspection will tell you enough.
@@StackingLayers I'll be sure to take another look, thanks! Better safe than sorry indeed
Wow somethings i never thought of thank for you time awesome video thanks for all tips.
If you already know resistance caused by bad connections causes excess hear, FFW to about 11 or 15 minutes to bypass repetition of resistance = heat, heat = bad.
Knowing how to do proper wiring is very important and good for troubleshooting. I bought a brand new SV06 from Sovol directly, it came and worked fine for a while.. then it started acting flaky.. turns out 3 of the wires were installed *under* the tightened terminal blocks, one was the heated bed.. not great.. 🙄 We honestly need something that's more like a PCB mounted WAGO connectors.
Should really still use ferrules with wago's for all the same reasons as screw terminals.
While wago's will self tighten, there is still the issue of fly away wires and compressing solder.
@@Person1873 I have mixed feelings about that tbh, I've never heard of anyone using ferrules with a wago prior, imo it slightly defeats the purpose, as the spring-jaw of the wago won't be biting into the wire directly anymore. Searching that topic I've actually found folks asking if they should REMOVE their ferrule before inserting it into a wago, but the consensus seemed to be it should be fine either way. Maybe a good idea if it's a connection that will be shuffled around often, and as you said loose strands falling out. Else it's yet another interface layer serving a slightly redundant purpose. If it's not part of the wago 221 series though(solid and strand rated), a ferrule might actually be required to get it to work in an otherwise solid-core fixture.
Wago connectors are made for bare wire, but ferrules do not affect their effectiveness. Confirmed by a Wago rep.
Wago makes PCB terminals. I have ordered samples from their website.
@@rando7th This is very good to know! I'll have to look into them and see if they fit my applications. Screw terminals are kind of an annoyance.
The place where solder gets pressure it flows away over time and becomes thinner.
You get a loose connection. This then gets hot and burns the terminal.
This is correct
very nice tipp! guide... i think many overlook this.
It's more common to overlook this than you would want to believe, and not just with 3D printer mods.
Tinned wires can't be smooshed at all it's hard as rock. to create more surface contact the ferules makes it easier to make more surface area for electrical conductivity. Crimped ends are softer than soldered ends. The shape of the crimp also helps.
sometimes crimping the plastic can also give you a bit of extra grip and strain relief too.... this is handy on the smaller crimps
No! Never clamp on the plastic or insulation. Doing so will reduce the conducting material contact. That is also a fire hasard.
Thank you :D I bought set of these little thibgs two years a go randomly beliveing they are some kind of connector set you know female male connector thing. But k bought them because I had to solder on diy project and I never soldered in my life. So by pure accident I bought exactly what I needed believing it is something else.
P.s. all I saw on packaging was pics of ferules I do not read local language :D
Another important point about ferrule use!
Never solder the end of a crimped ferrule. It will NOT do better.
Yes, I've seen idiots do this and even apply solder after crimping a red, blue or yellow crimped lug at the inspection port. In one case a whole light aircraft had to be re-terminated because the idiot owner was soldering after using the correct ratchet crimp tool.
Exactly, and the same goes for jst crimps and the likes. I've seen so many adding solder after the crimping those too.
For ferrules, avoid the rabbit holes and jump to 10:45 (You will still get the errors about heat coming from current, etc.)
Bare wire is always the best connection for electricity flow. Furrels might look nice and more convenient, but they are weak connection point. A narrow path in the wire that will restrict electron movement and cause a hot spot.
Check it with a thermal camera.
That would be a case of using the wrong type for your application, and not having enough torque on the clamp. But as I mentioned in the video bare wire is fine too, as long as you don't fray them out during installation, and as long as the terminals are made for bare wire.
Would stranded wire crushed under a screw also create heat by the air gaps created from the spreading of the locking (crush) screw
Sorry asked question too soon, hence the point of this video
It creates heat because the solder is solid
The uncrushed wire creates only a couple of points of contact
Those couple points of contact are carrying all the current so it gets hot and melts.
Untinned wire curshes in the connector and the current can use the entire wire, not creating hot spots
So you are correct. Some is misinformation.
It's primarily caused by air gaps amongst the conducting materia.l Solder is soft enough to crush in the terminal. The micro cracks allow arcs to form, which are basically natural resistors. The longer they go unchecked, the more the gaps open from determination and in the case of solder it's tendency to creap with both heat and pressure is what makes it even more susceptible to thermal runaway.
If the soldered wire has a connection why would the electricity flow through another cracked path that has more resistance. Electrons use the way of least resistance.
That a misunderstanding of the physics. Electrons flow through all conductive paths just not equally.
Imagine it as water in the pipe system of your house. Say somebody's taking a shower and you go and turn on the water at the kitchen sink, but just barely. A little bit of water comes out, right? At that moment the faucet has a dramatically higher resistance than the shower does and yet there is flow at both points. With electricity it's, in a very simplified way, the same principle but with the added problem of heat caused by resistance.
I didn't get the water hose theory of electron flow where terminal is clamping the flow of electricity and it releases at heat. Well that ferrule clamps the crap out of that wire. Yes I use ferrules and I also design and wire control cabinets for motion systems.
The water analogy was trying to get you to understand that electrons do not only follow the path of least resistance. If that was the case then no circuit systems would work as they reply on several different resistance values and various flows and routing of electricity.
The heat part is what causes the damage. More resistance causes more heat, more heat causes more resistance, that's thermal runaway and the danger this video is trying to help prevent. If you are an automation technician you should have a good understanding of this. It's a vital part of maintaining the safety of your system.
@@StackingLayers I do have an understanding, but the part that throws me in the video, is it sounded like tightening the terminal squeezes the flow of electrons
@portblock really? I repeatedly explained that the issue is gaps and cracks. Not too much pressure. Maybe the part where I say a resistor clamps down on the flow of electricity? That's just my way easily explaining impedance, since not everyone will understand that what that is.
@@StackingLayers Perhaps you are right, that may what I heard while haphazardly watching. I also need to watch how I say things, and here in front of all, I apologize sir. Sometimes I think I turn into one of those keyboard warriors when I dont mean to. You deserve better respect and I am going to go back and watch your video again.
Ferrules are great but the crimp tools cost more than most hobbyists are able to afford. Still would be helpful if you listed your tool mfr and model numbers used in the video. We used Weidmuller crimpers where I used to work and they were great but no way could I afford one for home. There's probably some decent quality knockoffs out there so if anyone has any recommendations please comment. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
You can get them for like $15 to $30 on AliExpress, eBay, and the likes. I have Weidmuller (bought used on ebay) and a no name version I bought off AliExpress both of them work basically the same. No reason to buy the name brand ones if you're not going to be doing on a daily basis.
@@StackingLayers Couldn't agree more. A lot of Adafruit/Sparkfun breakout boards and microcontroller hats use JST/SH connectors for their stemma/qt platform and the offical crimp for their specific pitch was something like $230 on Digikey. I bought the equivalent for $30 from Engineer and honestly the build quality for mine seems better but there seems to be no end to industry people saying JST certified or bust.
Using a ferrule for larger wires like a #6 THHN stranded for 60A-is it recommended? I never like using stranded with screw.
I don't think terminations on THHN solid wires or any type of solid core wire is recommended. Although I work mostly with MTW type which requires termination. For high amp application we move to solid copper bars.
I'm liking XT60 even more now. Maybe we should have a surface mount version of these (I only see a surface mount for XT30 which may be enough here).
Ove seen those melt down too. But that was more likely due to poor construction or repeated disconnect and reconnecting. The pins tend to lose their springiness over time creating the same problem of loose connections.
@@StackingLayers terminal blocks aren't for frequent reconnections. Isn't an XT connector (with wired soldered on each side) a better alternative (if space and money permits)?
If you are doing constant swapping of power sources, like with battery operated things, then that connector would be better I suppose. Terminal blocks are made for a more permanent connection with an easy service option.
Is it that it has been soldered? Or that the solder is most likely lead-free solder?
Never use solder in clamp terminals. Solder is for solder welding to a contact pad.
I would add a **BIG** word of caution. I purchased ferrules for my offgrid solar setup and used them on my solar charge controller. BIG BIG mistake. After smelling an odd smell I discovered that the wire was getting very very hot in operation. The documentation for the controller actually specified a strand count and specifically not to use ferrules. I removed the ferrules and retorqued to the specs and haven't had an issue since. While these are good for low amperage simple screw connections I would be hesitant to use them with anything moving real current.
FYI: The connector on the controller is designed to be used with bare wire. It has a large clamping surface with teeth and when a ferrule is used there just isn't the continuous contact area that it can achieve with the bare wire. Only the tips of the teeth make contact because the wire is so compressed it cannot bite into it. Just a word of caution to the solar guys out there!
The burning would be from an incorrectly torqued terminal or a poorly installed/incorrectly used ferrules. I work with industrial control systems and starters. We have starters rated for 45+ amps and all use ferrules, in screw terminals. It's a requirement. Though we use fine strand/flexible wires for vibration tolerance.
In a standard house installation and other installations that use solid core wire. Ferrules are not typically used with solid core wire, and completely pointless on single core.
@@StackingLayers This was at 100 amps through 2/0 fine strand wire. Unfortunately it just didn't work for me and both cables got equally hot. Cut off the ferrules and inserted the bare wire and torqued to spec and the issues stopped. I will still use them in other applications was just relaying my experience. After I removed it I could see how the clamp hadn't actually clamped the ferrule like it does with the wire inserted directly. It just didn't crush down like the bare wire does limiting the contact area.
I don't doubt that your situation panned out as you say. I probably would not have used ferrules on such a large gauge myself. And if I did choose to use them it would not be a round crump it would be a square or rectangular crimp tool to accommodate the terminal clamp dimensions.
@@StackingLayers His story seems to indicate that the terminals were designed for bare stranded method only. It may have terminated better with a ferrule if the box clamp was used to crimp the sleeve, achieving higher connection surface area.
Sounds a bit dodgy having 100A high flex (very fine strand) cable terminating in a box clamp terminal block. That should be a bolted crimp lug. 16mm^2 (63A) is about the limit I'd confidently use a box terminal.
I have a similar industrial career experience of over 45 years, manufacturing. Very high QA Standard Generation, transmission protection, distribution and process control. Terminated millions of cables.
I've used ferrules to terminate 95mm^2 cable, down to the 0.25mm^2. Bare termination has always been a QA fail, even on basic Control or Distribution boards, UNLESS the terminal is designed for bare (which is a huge PITA) This is done using preinsulated crimp lugs (of many form factors) or ferrule.
I loathe using the spring bite type terminals, that sometimes require bare use only.
It's good to see decent strippers being used. 😉 I do find my Weidmuller Stripax to be the best. Are the cheapo versions have the cutting blades made from multiple stacked wafers that adapt to the conductor shape?
I find those hex crimpers are fine, but it's a QA fail sometimes if a ratchet preset tool isn't used. You get RSI fatigue using them all day. I use a variety of Weidmuller crimpers for preinsulated sizes (that go down to 0.5mm^2 btw) and ferrules, of course up to that 95mm.
There was one point I would make when teaching amateurs about ferrules - Do NOT apply solder to the crimped ferrule, ever. (unless you are soldering down the wire connection to a board).
@BTW... I to didn't agree about the wire and connection choice but I wasn't ready to get into that part. 😅
👍👍😎👍👍
Ferrules are important, but the explanation at the beginning cannot be acceptable - solder melting at such lower temperature and such things. 😢
It's not melting at first, it's getting stress cracks. This allows for arcing which generates more heat, causing more resistive issues, basically puting it into a a thermal runaway situation. Solder can start to soften at 175c where as electrical arcs can reach in the 1000's of degrees. Granted theses arcs are micro to start out but you should be able to imagine what kind of havoc that would create.
@@StackingLayers Solder tipped flex cable comes loose in the box terminal because the soft solder can squish in the box when the wire is subjected to mechanical movement. They can wiggle loose.
This is especial true in cheaper PCB terminals like that when the clamp plate between screw and conductor is thin, deforming into a profile matching the round screw applying pressure on the joint. Solder also requires more tension on the screw to get the connection to a point when the wire doesn't wriggle in the box.
So... tighten the terminals when the solder is warm and soft...
In fact, forget the terminals! 😄
Better yet, remove the terminals & solder straight to the board! /s
The point is to not generate that much heat in the first place.
@@StackingLayers Exactly. So, if the solder is getting hot enough to melt... you have OTHER problems - too much current. Fix that.
The problem is too much resistance from the poor/damaged connections not too much current. Which is confirmed by the fact that there's not enough current flowing to blow the fuse.
Awful audio
I agree. I'm having a really difficult time figuring out the audio part. If you have any tips on how to improve it I would be very grateful.
could have comressed that to a single frame ....
Yes, but this is a theoretical lesson for beginners to fully understand why it's important to pay attention and do it correctly.
@@StackingLayers sorry for being rude, you're right. But I think it could be a bit more captivating even for beginners with a bit more information density. Nice job anyways.
I will agree I need to work on getting my thoughts more condensed. My thoughts go a mile a minute, but if I make a script I sound like a malfunctioning robot. 😅 I honestly do appreciate the input though.
@@StackingLayers actually i want to try to turn my rude comment into a compliment. You do nice visuals with Fusion sections and by filming different problems with short circuit and overcompressed ferrule .... With this nice concepts and materials you actually could have made a infographic ("1 frame") with all those pictures that speak mostly for themselves and someone else would have needed a lot of explanation.
Welcome to 1960