7 Drawbacks of Upgrading To A Commercial CNC | Hobbyist to Large CNC Router
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
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These 7 Drawbacks and Cons are common after going from a Small Hobby CNC to a Large Commercial CNC. Ryan goes over his thoughts of the downfalls after upgrading. We hope these practical examples from industry professionals and his personal woodworking experience help you along your CNC Router journey. I hope you are better off after this video!
My Favorite CNC Router Bit - amzn.to/3cFhFt7
#7 Small Projects - 2:11
#6 Programming - 4:25
#5 Training - 5:55
#4 Expensive Bits - 8:10
#3 Space - 10:53
#2 Hidden Cost - 12:47
#1 ????????? - 15:23
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You forgot to mention that not only you need space, but you need space with a lot of power, preferably 3 phase. You have a 5-7kW spindle, 5HP dust collector (or bigger) 2-5HP vacuum pump. Then add the rest of the machines and your electrical service into the shop may need a costly upgrade before you even get the new CNC powered up.
Great video! I have a shopsabre coming in a week. I started with a cncrouterparts machine 5 years ago and built a cabinet business with it. Still running everyday. Love the content.
Ryan I always enjoy when your videos come out - I appreciate you taking time out what must be a crazy schedule to share some knowledge! You are the kind of guy that people need to be following for woodworking business advice! Your no-nonsense and tenacious approach to life and business are an inspiring thing to see. Keep it up!
Thank you that really means alot! I think there is a need for this channel as well on youtube.
Thanks for the info. You have reinforced a higher end hobby type being the machine I should start with!
Excellent video and information. Thanks a lot for making this and talking about things other people never mention.
Great video! Thanks for the realistic perspectives and insight. I'm very interested in getting a Shop Sabre CNC and the realistic cost perspective from you is worth so much.
Thanks for watching!
Glad you are back. Always enjoying your videos!!!
Thank you for your insights!
Thank you very much man I really appreciate this information
Great video!
Yep, being a business owner for almost two decades, I can agree with everything point you mentioned. There are some days that you miss being just an employee, grab your paycheck, and enjoy the rest of the day or weekend without having to worry about chasing business next week, or that employee dropped the ball on you...
No regrets about owning a business, you get paid accordingly to your performance and responsibility, but it's definitely for everyone.
I wish you success...subscribed.
Thank you so much
The nature of the beast is why I postponed getting a larger CNC. I wasn’t ready for the capacity and I felt the need to keep the machine running because the cost was significant. Plus the speed and power is for production and at this time it is more than I need. Also another hard pill to swallow, getting the machine you need rather than the one that is the fastest, biggest, most powerful beast.
Such a good point you made. A lot of people do not want to upgrade up, they just want to start off with the expensive one, now everyone is in different positions, if you already have an existing shop and business then starting off big might be a good idea. From my experience there is nothing wrong with upgrading, everyone thinks it’s expensive, but if you are running a CNC correctly that smaller less expensive one will pay for itself plus more in under 6 months. Every upgrade I made was within 16 months of getting the one below it. And the resell value is good. But I still haven’t sold any of my smaller ones haha
I sold my boat and bought a Holzer 53" wide double head sander. Use it once in awhile and not as much as i should. A lot of my cabinet jobs are Euro style and no faceframe now. Doors are ordered out. It may just sit there but it is awesome when i need it.
@@cutting-it-close one thing you forgot was when it sits and you are waiting for the technician and the new parts after something goes wrong.
Excellent points. Im seeing this a year after delivery of my is408 and i was absolutely not in the right mindset when i got it. You definitely have to feed the beast.
👍👍👍, another great video! Well Done!!
Well Done! Great perspective on large CNC machines. Keep up the good work!
Hallo Ryan, just yesterday I’ve watched your video “500k in 2 years…” An amazing story. Absolutely motivating and inspiring. A clean proof that good ideas, some courage and confidence can pay off one day.
I have an idea how you can exploit your dust (if you haven’t had it already); you could turn it into wooden briquettes, heating your house and hall and sell them.
Wish you a nice Christmas time.
All the best for you and thank you for the inspiration.
Very interesting -- thanks for the video. I've considered upgrading from a hobbyist to a commercial CNC for a while now -- you've given me a lot to think about.
Glad the video helped!
Rayan, thank you for all the effort and knowledge you share! I'm from Croatia and I'm also trying to start my own business with cnc, my start is also interesting, but I wouldn't have tried all this if I hadn't watched YT and good people like you, thank you man!
Thanks Ryan, I was literally considering jumping in the deep end and starting with the exact ShopSabre model you have. This video made it clear that could be a very expensive mistake and I should try walking before running.
Glad I could save you some headache and money for the time being! I hope you end up getting the bigger one soon!
I loved the video. So glad you are in touch with your place in life and business. I use to have a $100k morbidelli 503 way before technology was up to date. It was a production machine. I was a small shop wanting to grow and fell into it at a cheap used price. The drawback was the learning curve and the cost of maintenance. Not the production. It could sit, but if somethiing went wrong, it ate up all the profits.
I would say a good hobby or small production cnc can make the one mane shop alot of money if they maximize the potential. Pay cash for all your equipment and you will never have a problem or stress running it.
Thank you so much for the wise words, much appreciated and that 503 must have weighed 10,000 pounds!
so glad you made this video
Cool! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Glad I found your channel. It helps me to do the woodworking business right.
That is great to hear! There is a mindset shift when going to make part time money to making it a legit business!
Great points, Ryan! Like Paul Akers says, don't grow too fast, so your last point was perfect. Thanks for making more videos!
Paul Akers is great! Yes and thank you I have more to come
So good! Number one was so insightful....
Needed this video. Thanks man. Reece, UK
Wow... just Wow... awesome video Ryan, you are an inspiration!
Thank you!
I own the pro 510 and love it !!!
Great advice
I watch your videos because you have stuff everywhere. material, scrap, sawdust, equipment. People that make videos in a shop or garage that look like a maid cleaned and organized it twice that day are videographers and not woodworkers. Making stuff makes messes... Keep making videos!
Thank you so much, yes they make money from CZcams not from working!
I have a video coming out this next week over the new machine
Great video.
THANK YOU for the videos, I'm just finishing my first year joinery/fine furniture certificate, and am very intrigued by the CNC world. My dream right now is to own a ShopSabre, and your videos help to put things into perspective.
Thank you so much for the feedback :)
Great video. I don’t make any content, but I always thought if I did I would make one on this subject. I bought a shop Sabre pro510 as my first CNC about a yr and a half ago. I now love it, but you talk about riding the struggle bus for several months. I remember watching a video on these where a guy at a trade show says “if you can hit the home key, you can run this machine.” Very deceiving. Like you say, if it’s in you and you have the drive and want to, it will pay dividends. However, if you’re not in it 100% I wouldn’t make the jump. Thanks again!
I friend of mine who owns a cabinet business with a nice shop and a bunch of employees often talks about the good ol' days when it was just him and his helper. Feeding the beast is absolutely something you have to deal with the bigger you get.
If you spent $50000 on router bits in a year it means is worth it, but that's not the point. The point is if you are a hobbyist, don't look at Shop Sabre, if you are an entrepreneur and a business this is something you need, not want. I think the best strategy is to "buy your last tool first", stop wasting money on toys, when in fact in time you'll end up buying the big stuff anyway. Just ordered my 408 few days ago, coming up in couple of months. Hopefully next year I get to order at least one more
How has it gone for you ??
Actually I would love to see an answer to the question asked by angel estrella. I am currently in the process of buying the cnc machine right now
I personally think the Shop sabre line is upper level hobbyist/garage warrior machine... I started with a 5x12 Weeke BHP200, programming interface is a breeze.
I think a big obstacle for many upgrading to a larger machine is the mindset they developed while struggling with the little machine... those T-tracks and hold down clamps are simply not necessary.
Thanks for great video and also your honesty. I have a good quality small format cnc and it is fine for my custom cabinet business. Simply cutting rectangles is easier on sliding table saw, and if I need high volume cnc cutting it is cheaper to farm it out to a cnc shop than it would be to do it myself. I think there is allot of deceptive hype around things like cnc and 3d printing. Most custom home builders don't own an excavator. They all need excavating but buying a front end loader, would be silly when you can simply hire one when you need it. I think anyone considering buying a cnc should think carefully about where they want to be in the business supply chain before jumping in.
That machine is awesome. :)
What a great video. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. You might have actually talked me out of upgrading. Especially with the "feed the beast" comment. Makes a lot of sense, especially when we're talking about a $50k investment
Good counsel. I’m a trim carpenter by trade, 40 years. The trim company I buy from up here in Michigan is quite large. The mill all their own trim. They have a large facility and heat the whole place with the saw dust they produce. Just a thought.
Had a question, I'm looking at the Sabre pro 510. What is the difference between the IS 510 vs the pro 510.im looking at getting the ATC on the unit. also, i live in Columbus Ohio and was wondering where you are located, reason being, id love to see one of these machines in person, and watch it working. if you were close Ohio. Thanks again for this video. You did a great job and answered a lot of questions i had. God Bless
Thank you for the videos! and congratulations on not just the CNC but on the amazing shop that you have at such a young age. Only a true woodworker entrepreneur can really relate. You mentioned you where waiting on a bigger CNC, if you don’t mind me asking what brand is it? Again, Thanks and congrats!
Thank you so much, it has taken a lot of works and a lot of working on myself to get to this point. It is a C Series CR Onsrud dual head!
Good tips.
That last point is funny, only because I found that I have that same mindset with my printers.
An idle robot is an unproductive robot.
Agreed!
You mentioned "Lean" (Toyota Production System) in one of your other videos. Recommend reading a few books. Lean Thinking, Womack. Also The Lean Machine, Oosterwal. There a ton of legacy Ohno/Deming TPS books you can dive into but recommend the modern thinking. "Tear down those monuments."
Great Content!
I am just starting out with upgrading to an ATC using UCCNC control software and Vcarve Pro myself, on my Stepcraft M.1000.
Do you have any pointers on setting up toolpaths on Vcarve Pro for possibly a continuous carving?
Right now I just choose the M6 Macro to change to the next tool and open a new toolpath that I saved. Just wondering if I can do the entire job without having to open all the different files for the different tools. Possibly achieving more reduced milling times.
I appreciate your insight, and learn a great deal from your channel.
I wouldn't be able to tell you right from wrong on any of that. Just make sure on V Carve pro when you are saving toolpaths that you look up at the top right when saving and it will say to -save multiple toolpaths to one file or -save multiple toolpaths to multiple files.
@@cutting-it-close Thanks for the help!
Excellent video! I have a ShopSabre 510 that I have not commissioned yet so am always interested in any videos I see that include this machine. Several questions:
1) I noticed in a previous video of you ShopSabre that you had a piece of pvc pipe that you attached your dust collection flex hose to but Ian this video it appeared to be absent from both machines. Did you decide that it didn’t work as well as you had hoped? I ask because I am getting ready to run all of my shop ducting including that going to my CNC.
2) Does your other ShopSabre have a full size spoil board? I am trying to figure out if I need to source some 5 x 10 mdf or go with 4 x 10 (much more available)?
Thank you and love your videos?
Go with 5x10 spoilboard. It’s pretty easy to find actually as well
how about putting a wireless internet camera facing your bits tray ( get one that rotates) so you can see what bit is in which holder from your design desk? and you can have overhead cameras also to see you work flo and monitor whats going on from your Phone.
I like it, not a bad thought at all
Thanks for the video, can you comment on why you chose the 5x10 vs a 4x8?
I had the space for it and I cut 5x5 sheets a lot. If you have the space get the bigger one.
Where do you recommend learning CNC programming?
Will 4814 good for make cabinet ?
What do you sell with these machines, do you have a website?
(at time 14:10) To bad you are not in Northern Minnesota you could sell the saw dust to people with pellet stoves and for growing ice fishing bait worms.
I guess I kinda skipped the whole number 6 drawback on my hobby router. I've been doing multiple manual tool change toolpaths for 5 years. Got a bunch of framing coming for a new machine with 2ftx4ft cutting area and a 3.5kw ATC spindle. Should be a fun challenge to get working with all the commercial doodads like mist coolant, dust collection, and vacuum hold down.
All of the reviews I see don't talk about what G codes are available. I ran CNC mills for 15 years as a machinist. How many Z offsets and work coordinate offsets do these machines have. Do the spindles take CAT30 tool holders? Do they use cutter compensation? One reviewer said that you need to make sure that the machine you buy has limit switches so that you can home your machine, don't they all do?
I really liked your N°1 point. As soon as you want to sell stuff and you "HAVE" to work others it might not be a hobby any more...
From what I see in your workshop you do not have any CNC with automatic download of parts. I have the experience of working with one that does. Unload the piece while cleaning the bed to place the next one. You don't get an idea of the speed that this functionality gives to work. I hope that the new CNC you bought brings this feature. Greetings from Argentina. good channel
How to choose a niche? How to understand that this thing is in demand? Is it possible to use a service like Google Trends?
To me google trends are for things that are quickly trending and fading away, I would be more worried about something that can withstand multiple years. Choosing a niche has probably 10% Luck, 20% Observation, and 70% just making a lot of stuff until something sells alot! Then just focusing on that one thing.
After watching a few of your videos yesterday, it bugged me all night while I slept. Why don't you use a spoilboard, you have massive vacuum, no need for fixtures at all. Why all the extra steps
Dude, make pellets from your sawdust, use for heating or sell.
Most of these "drawbacks" really aren't negatives. This is silly. If you spent $50k on bits and you're actually using them properly and not breaking them or wearing them out prematurely, that translates to a lot of production which means you're making more money assuming you're pricing things correctly. Same thing with sawdust. If you're making a lot of sawdust you're making money. FYI- people will pay you decent money for sawdust. Toolholders and an ATC will save you so much labor it's insane.
Doesn't your workload also increase with these bigger machines? Which in turn will explain why you uwe $50K worth of bits?
Yes, but you would never think to account for that dollar amount of bits being used, at least I did not.
Have you ever cut any aluminum or plastics on a cnc router! That's stressful!
6 seems like carelessness. Can’t mitigate that with any size machine.
can't you sell that amount of sawdust
its still not that much relatively speaking, there are companies that create some dust! Yes you can in pellets or bricks, working on that in the future.
You wanna give one away to a poor guy like me lol
all of the things you mentioned is about going bigger, not specifically about the machines. you could literally make this same video about running a bigger business without even mentioning machines and it wouldnt seem out of context.
Sorry your definition of ty of machines is wrong. Machine which you have it is still semi hoby machine. If you buy SCM CNC or something better you can have machine grom 70k€ (new) upwards and you get much more control and safty for the operater and for your tooling. So make your du diligence and reserch. Yes you can buy the same styl of machine from SCM or form HOMAG and price diference can be 30-70k€ cost diference.
Why so many routers? Multiple small projects at once?
Where do you live in that you have to pay taxes on a machine you own after the purchase of the machine?
It really does not take longer to do smaller projects on a large cnc. False information