M67 - Where did the Sun come from? - Deep Sky Videos
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- The open cluster M67 has traditionally been considered a possible birthplace for the Sun, though computer modelling may throw a spanner in the works? Will astronomers ever learn where our star was born?
To read the paper "The Sun Was Not Born in M67" visit: arxiv.org/abs/1...
This video features Professor Mike Merrifield from the University of Nottingham and Pete Lawrence, a well-known science writer and broadcaster.
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Videos by Brady Haran
Editing in this film by Stephen Slater
Brady's other channels include:
/ periodicvideos (Chemistry stuff)
/ sixtysymbols (Physics and astronomy)
/ numberphile (Numbers and maths)
/ nottinghamscience (Science and behind the scenes)
/ foodskey (Food science)
/ backstagescience (Big science facilities)
/ favscientist (Favourite scientists)
/ bibledex (Academic look at the Bible)
/ wordsoftheworld (Modern language and culture)
/ philosophyfile (Philosophy stuff)
I would sit down and listen to Mike Merrifield for hours and hours, that man is amazing!
It's thought that "probably all stars originated in open clusters"? I wish Professor Merrifield had elaborated on this.
I've put a link to the M67 paper discussed by Mike in the video description.
Amazing little video - I never even thought this was a question. Although it could possibly become Nobel Prize material if it lined up with origin of life research that was related to the origin of the Sun if its birth cluster were found.
I love wicked smart people who are simultaneously personable and able to distill what they're smart about for the rest of us. Professor Merrifield is *totally* likable. :)
I love this guy
Dr merrifield is literally my hero!
I like how there's just a random netgear switch lying on the desk in the office with all available ports in use.
You are right that hotter stars emit in bluer wavelengths. The thing with red giants is that though there core is hotter their envelope is very extended and their surface is far from the core. This leads to a lower surface temperature - hence they emit in redder wavelengths.
Great animations in this one.
Thanks for another view into our beautifull neighborhood. Great!
my dad has a degree in astrophysics, suddenly understand why he finds this stuff so incredible.
Might as well accept it. Our sun is a bastard orphan.
i was born in july so i was possibly aligned with m67 directly shining its light towards me in first moments of opening my eyes for first time
Water, because when the the first molecule of H2O appeared it was water (which is synonymous with H2O), but not ice (which is a solid, and therefore needs multiple molecules to form a crystal).
These are so interesting.
Thank you for ding these and sharing them on You Tube.
Could it not answer a question a critical as "Where can we find a solar system similar to ours?" and ultimately "Can we find another Earth-like planet?". The reason I say such obscure statements is because if you think about it, in the video it is stated that a cluster that our sun was born in would be one that would have a very similar composition to that of our star. So other stars/solar systems could be born with compositions similar to that of ours. Just a thought :)
Good deal. I'm glad it's been clarified . ^_^ I apologize if my comment sounded overly snippety. It wasn't intended. Cheers bud.
nice work Brady! I love this channel
think of the color spectrum. the star is losing energy and gaining red color because it is losing energy.
blue doesnt mean cold, although your faucet might want you to think differently. the energy spectrum goes from red all the way to violet, (ROYGBIV) and it starts at the lower wavelength to the higher wavelength. so ya.
Nothing in the video hints at it not being born in the milky way; the question is which part of the milky way?
Great video, really enjoyed it.
This was a great video.
The paper addresses that: "If the Sun had been ejected from M67 with this high velocity by means of a three-body encounter, this interaction would destroy an initial circumstellar disk around the Sun, or disperse its already formed planets." Basically the mass of the sun would be 'kicked' but the mass of the rest of the solar system, since it would've been dispersed, would've fallen behind. The sun makes up 98-99% of the entire mass of the solar system.
Great video!
I'd like to know some of the bigger questions in astrophysics that were indirectly referenced to at the end of the video!
you guys are awesome!
Smaller stars are generally more dense than larger stars, and therefore burn hotter and brighter.
Really you get to the point where it depends on definitions. If you have a single H2O molecule, is it solid, liquid or gas? Id say gas but im no expert with these kind of questions
Good upload
Interesting video!
This is an invitation to see an artist theory on the physics of light and time!
This theory is based on just two postulates
1. Is that the quantum wave particle function Ψ or probability function represents the forward passage of time itself
2. Is that Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle ∆×∆p×≥h/4π that is formed by the w-function is the same uncertainty we have with any future event within our own ref-frame that we can interact with turning the possible into the actual!
i LOVE the new animations! keep going :D
im sure it may have been benefactor for many until lights out with the strict midwives of the 1970s
my eyes were taped closed in earliest pictures
i think what seemed like 6th floor and in room in incubator next to the mother beside large window (! facing south easterly direction)
Sure some don't *need* to. But what if, by answering it, it facilitated the answering of a question that *does* need to be answered?
No, our solar system has always been around this 'star' but the solar system (sun included) originated in another part of (or outside of) our galaxy.
It is more like skin than "clothes".
I think we are getting to the bottom of this very important issue. The title threw me a bit! The solar system was formed from a cloud of gas as one unit. The question should be, surely, where did the solar system come from? But still, its an incredible thing to think about, our solar system formed from gas in some other galaxy, now just flying through space in the Milky Way. The solar system did not originate in the position it is in today. Never thought of that before, nice !
Humm....I always thought the sun came from another star that just blew up in a supernova(although supernovas usually left some signs that we see), and the explosion expanded with the formation of the Oort's Cloud and so on.
"The third star would get kicked out at high speed." I thought physicists couldn't solve the three-body problem. It looks like numerical methods have changed the game.
couldn't it have been kicked out of M67 before the planetary system had completely formed ? and if so, may there be signatures of the kick-out to be looked for in our solar system workings ?
You don't really grasp the sizes quite well, M67 cluster is inside the milky way, and it's rather close by those scales.
It would be nice if you would make a video talking about how "solar system" is actually the specific name of OUR star system, being the system of Sol. So many people call other star systems solar systems incorrectly.
I never realized we didn't know where the sun came from. Great video though. The end of it makes me wonder. The answer on the question where the sun came from answers no big questions. If you want to know how the solar system came to be and why it is as it is are questions NASA tries to answer. But it can not be answered or simulated properly without knowing where the sun came from. Well, that’s what I started to think.
i wonder if there are any stars that are so remote (relative to other stars) that they aren't in any way affected by the gravitational pull of other stars or indeed anything? and if so do they move?
Great video, thanks!
Could the Sun have acquired the dust of the Solar system after being ejected?
And do we have any evidence this was the first system around the Sun? (perhaps the previous one got wrecked in the ejection, but the dust of it formed our current one?)
Everyone knows the sun comes from the east, stop the searching
shh
And then it sets on the west. As simple at that.
Sun goes up, Sun goes down. You can't explain that.
unlimited: There are no compass directions in space.
Solipsistically is right, energy and matter is allmost the same thing. you can turn matter into energy and opposite.
Thank you, that is very helpful !
Question: Couldn't the solar system have formed after the sun got whizzed out of M67?
Are you sure the fluoerescent lighting in the hospital ward didn't interfere at all?
Damn it.. that would be a good scifi story... journey to Sister star.
he is right, red stars are usually below 5,000°K in temperature which is not that hot on an astronomical scale, there are however some exceptions
see wikipedia: red giants; outreach . atnf . csiro . au/education/senior/astrophysics/photometry_colour.html [without spaces]
I also would like to know...
no no no, the galaxy is WAYYY bigger than our solar system or these clusters. i think it would be VERY hard to imagine our sun coming from outside of our galaxy, sounds INCREDIBLY implausible. for more details on this paper, just look it up.)
Is there a point in those models where the sun's relative velocity with other stellar bodies is minimal?
Because the solar system is one of our environments. As is the galaxy or universe. Environment is not a word limited to the popular definition of a terrestrial environment as is commonly used in topics like climate change.
Wow, amazing stuff, even thinking about it gives me goose bumps, what would have happened if conditions would have been slightly different, no Earth, no us ?? Your explanation is really clear thank you, I like that skin not clothes ! One question, why do you put star in quotes? Is the Sun a star ? (I thought it is )
Even though we don't know what patch of stars in the universe the sun came from, we do know for a fact that the sun has been at the center of our solar system all its life... In fact, if you listen carefully, this is actually confirmed by mr. Merrifield.
So could the sun have accreted a solar system from the gas cloud within the milky way? Could it have been ejected from M67 and had part or all of the current solar system added to it later on?
Water doesn't have to be liquid. Like I said: water is synonymous with H2O. A single molecule is neither liquid, nor solid, nor gas.
Thanks alot for that Pompous, you are obviously an expert in the area, wow, I am learning so much and it all started from this one video, I never even thought of our Sun orbiting the galaxy before, and knowing what will happen in 1.5 million years wow !! Gonna have to look up what is Oort cloud now ! May sound crazy, but thinking about the solar system's origin and future in the galaxy/universe blows my mind !!! I always thought it just stays where it is ... silly huh !!
the real question is how did the materials that form our planet started to orbit the sun, hence how did we get here
What about a gas cloud escaping from the cluster that eventually formed the Sun? If the gas cloud came from the same cluster the composition could be the same as the other stars that seemed similair.
+Fewt If you're talking about the M67 cluster, then how do you explain the high relative velocity of the cloud? Clouds don't physically act like stars, it's a big mass but not very dense (compared to a star) and with individual parts reacting differently when a force is applied on. It's just like throwing sand, and throwing a single rock.
2 very interesting points, newer than the video:
2014 the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung wrote about "Die große Schwester der Sonne" (The big sister of the sun).
They really found one sibling of the sun!
It is HD16 28 26 in the Herkules, unfortunately so far that it is out of reach gor us. (Online, but german).
And: You find online a very interesting paper at:
Max-Planck-Gesellschaft,
Die Wiege der Sonne/ The cradle of the sun.
I searched desperately for an answer to this question and then found this.
You may know that the Max Planck Gesellschaft has a special branch which only cares for this.
They cannot say until now where it happened, but found very interesting things which will help to discover that place.
I can only tell you: read it! It is really worth your time! And if I remember right, they publish in english, too.
The solar system is (loosely) similar to the clothes that you are wearing. you are always in your clothes, but that doesn't mean that you, and by extension your clothes, can't have come from somewhere else. Of course the sun can't change solar systems the same what you can change clothes, but just think about the solar system as something that is part of the sun and attached to it and it should make more sense. The sun's gravity is the binding element that holds the solar system together.
I really want to know too Brady. Me too
And what if the Sun didn't have a solar system back then? When it was kicked out, it started to travel, and during the journey, it came across some debris and our solar system started to form?
+László Földi That's not possible in orbital mechanics. If the sun passed through a dust cloud, first of all, the material that gets caught in the gravity would be negligible, and even if a sizeable amount somehow did, it would by definition have escape velocity, so unless each little dust particle has a little rocket on it that can slow it down, or there was already something for it to smash into, they would swing around the sun and fly back out into the void.
+icedragon769 Indeed, and we can indirectly measure the age of the stuff in the solar system. It all matches with around 5 billion years.
So this is suggesting that our own sun did not originate in our own galaxy? I never knew that. I'd love to understand how we get to know this. Please?
Do we know can the cluster forming the sun be on the other side of the galaxy or is it too far away?
do rhetorical questions need to be answered ?
Perhaps our sun was expelled from that cluster for catching the Life ..
Probably yes if the sun passed through a huge and dense nebulae slower than its current speed. I guess they dismissed this hypothesis because the accumutation of matter needed to create our solar system would take some billions of years. Thats just my guess.
The solar system was born along with sun. There was no solar system before the birth of the sun. But the sun was born somewhere. The sun and the solar system move inside our galaxy, in the ~4.5 billion years from the birth of our sun we moved a lot and many things changed in the galaxy itself. So its difficult to locate where the sun was born.
that is what we call SCIENCE!!!
oops, i meant VISIBLE LIGHT spectrum, NOT energy spectrum! thats a whole other ball park lol. not trying to talk about radiowaves to gamma rays!
Is there the reflection of an alien in the picture of the phases of the moon behind his left shoulder?Or am I going mad?
I think both
Well this is news to me, I had not thought about where the Sun 'came' from, you mean its not always been in our solar system? This is very important, and yet the professor just laughs about it, oh wow, I will certainly have to rethink my ideas about our environment.
research solar system formation; i really just don't think solar systems evolve this way, it's a very specific process involved with the original formation of the star that's at least well enough understood at this point to make such a theory pretty far-fecthed, if even romotely possible...
Yep, our atmosphere tints the sun yellow.
Tide goes in tide goes out...
if that was sarcasm, i lol'd. if not.. i .. dont even
How'd the Sun get there? Can't explain that.
M67 is in the milky way. And we are still in the milky way as we speak.
You can't, which is why an argument on this topic will not really resolve anything.
If the sun was not in 'our' solar system, it would not be a solar system. The sun -- Sol -- and the planets all formed from the same cloud of gas, and have been hurtling through space together ever since. The question is, where was the cloud of gas in which the solar system formed?
It came from a nebula that was here billions of years ago,everything we know of all came from this nebula.
No, but it can be fun!
There should be a "Find the suns birth cluster NOW" petition.
What if the solar system around the sun (as we know it) came together after the sun was kicked out of M67?
This guy is very likeable to me :)
"almost exactly" :-)
I'm sort of confused as to why we believe all stars started out in open clusters...isn't it perfectly possible that the sun is just like many of the other trillions of stars that aren't in open clusters? Some form in clusters and some don't?
+t3hPoundcake The thing is that, for forming a star, you have to get a big amount of matter and an event that is able to trigger the gravitationnal pull. And it's way easier to find thoses in big clouds with dying stars producing shockwaves, than in the middle of a small cloud in the middle of nowhere.
I wouldn't mind hearing some actual experts thoughts on Nibiru =)
According to MinutePhysics, the Sun is a huge ball of burning cats
The actual experts thoughts would be "Its a load of nonsense" - because it is.
Sixty symbols!! :D
That's right. :D Me & You as well. ;D
We can not see ourselves nor or origin in the past, like you can not see yourself being born.
Thank you that's great, I have always believed that there are other carbon based 'aliens' out there somewhere. I notice you say 'will' in caps, not 'there is a strong probability', how can you be so sure we are not alone. Thanks for your reply by the way, Dave.
I think that a study that provides a definitive proof of the origin of our sun's original star cluster would be worthy of a Nobel prize. If not a prize in the category of Astronomy perhaps a Nobel peace prize. By identifying the original star-forming cluster of our sun and it's composition we will identify at least one type of star forming cluster capable of creating a solar system that can create and support sentient life forms. It is conceivable and perhaps even probable that life has arisen elsewhere. The Drake equation is simply a string of probabilities with poorly defined parameters. The composition of our original nursery will provide vital limits on the probability function describing the original composition of a nursery capable of creating life capable solar systems. As well, the social implications of discovering a preliminary key to our existence will be large and far-ranging. This will also provide an impetus to search out the star systems that were born in Sol's star cluster for planets.The discovery of our original star cluster may even impact certain spiritual and religious precepts, clarify the original composition of our star and associated bodies, provide a better probability function for the search for life and provide clues that will enable the search for exoplanets around our "sibling" stars.
where did the water come from?
how about water now??