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Reading AGGRESSIVE Bird Body Language
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2023
- This video is part two of our in home consultation with Ane and her Congo African Grey, Roman, view part one here: • THIS BIRD ATE HIS CAGE...
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😍 ABOUT US 😍
Dave and Jamieleigh Womach specialize in parrot training and companionship.
#parrots #birds #parrottraining
Dave is half a genius. Jamieleigh is the other half.
so Capri is the whole genius 🎉
that sounds about right
I really like how Dave and Jamie really interweave their comments and show what the body language is telling Ane. I have a happy CAG, she doesn’t like “hugs” either. It’s been many years for her to offer her head for scritchies. But now it’s pretty often. Patience, reading body language and trust building being the secret for me. Duuuuhhhh.
The funny thing is that Dave is the original trainer. Jamie used to be afraid of birds!
Yes!!!😂❤
Once dave stopped petting him he became calmed and relaxed, like he was feeling good that he is being understood.
I work with wild birds sometimes and these body language videos are very helpful for not traumatizing the animals in my care more than they have already been traumatized to end up there.
I’m unlikely to ever have a bird, but this stuff is fascinating!
This is the point where you’re on your way to change stuff and turn them right side up.
You can see that this exercise of stationing has a therapeutic effect on Roman! this bird feels seen, it is open to letting some of the fear go and is willing to settle down (almost playfully), and seems receptive for passive bonding, now it is your turn to let go of some fear and give a chance to bond more, who knows - I hope that in year you’ll see roman in a new light. I wish you to form the best relationship and be best buddies soon! Been there with my African Grey! Ugh this is exciting!
My friend just got bit by her aggressive kak and I was trying to remember any good BirdTricks video I could send her. I open CZcams and this is on top of my feed 😂 The bird gods smile upon me. Thanks for the content!
KAK?
@@TSUNAMI-MAMI Kakariki :) Red-crowned parakeet.
#birdbathjamaica
Bi.
You guys nailed it like you always do. She's reading her bird well but she's just not listening and accepting his answer. The Bird has so much potential. He just doesn't trust that when he asks somebody to leave him alone they will. Plus I do believe that he figured out that he runs her. Can't wait to see what you guys do next.....
He definitely exploits her fear.
Exactly!
I really gain from re-watching these.
Thank you
Jamie the analogy that you said at 20:40 was so good! I like watching your videos because so many of your training techniques can be applied to other animals.
Rewarding calm is genius.
This is just fascinating to me to hear the brainstorming you are going through trying to help this bird. I would be terrified of this particular bird and Ane's commitment to him is commendable. I can say that I think changing to the seasonal feeding system was a game changer for me and my Timneh. His health and feather condition are much better and he is much less of a grumpy all the time bird compared to when he was on all seeds and nuts and I had no treats of value to give him because he had them available all the time. I'm so grateful for your guidance on diet alone, and the behavior training has been of good value as well.
It’s always sold out so does this bag last that long since it’s been 6 months and always sold our weekly when I’ve checked?
@@dudemorris7769 I make mine fresh using their cookbooks. I've never tried the freeze dried version.
@@carmenattallah6244 thank you for this information. I kept seeing everyone using this feeding system but every single time I’ve tried to order it, it’s been sold out, never once saying back in stock. I did download the recipe and do a fresh chop that I freeze for a month at a time with chia seeds added.
So good Dave & Jamie!! We need more of this type of video. So freaking good.
Roman is definitely a challenge in more ways than one! You guys are doing such a good job trying to figure out how to work with him and teach her what Roman's signals mean. Really wish she could have an animal psychic visit to see what's going on in his birdie brain. Thanks Jamie and Dave.
Would love to see them collab with an animal psychic!
@@spiritmatter1553 why does roman feels like a good name for a cannibal
#birdbathjamaica
Yy
This comment proves parrots are absolutely more intelligent than some humans. 🤷🏼♀️ but hey, if you have extra cash to give a grifter con man you are free to do so.
I would hang the towel over the T-bar, and place him on it and leave him there for awhile and after a few minutes target train him moving back and forth on it to desensitize him to it. I would also work on her delivery of treats- she always comes from under him both with the targeting stick AND the treat. Raise those up over his head so he learns that if he keeps his head up (and not able to bite!) he'll get a tasty reward.
So helpful to hear you put into words what is being communicated through body language-consent is everything! ❤
He's a smart bird. I know greys are smart anyway but Roman is very clever. You can see him thinking things thru..... Admittedly it's mostly, "OK how can I bite you from here" lol but the biting IS a lot conditioned responses. He's not above just deciding to chomp tho.
All i can think of is a falconers glove and a shield lol. Really enjoying watching you all working towards a better life for all involved and having the courage to be honest. ❤
Love Ane! Thanks for sharing her and Roman's story. ❤
I really learn a lot watching these more challenging cases. I also have an African gray, and thankfully, she is more timid and skittish versus aggressive. But every once in a while, if I don’t read her correctly, she will nip me. I love that you film the sessions so we can see how you interact with the birds, and how to interpret their body language, and what to do, in terms of adjusting or thinking of other solutions. Thank you so much. And good luck to Roman and Ane!!
With my aggressive Quakers I've been working on rewards. They like music but not petting. When they bite because I'm offering a treat and they want a different one, the rest of the day is spent showing them the bit finger😢. It's a brand new day the next day. They now just give me stink eye if the want a different treat. I spent a few days teaching them how to open sun flower seeds. They are 15 years into "never been trained"
So glad to see this I have adopted 24 year old Congo and acts like Roman so these just like the other videos will be helpful , cause he came with the towel aggressive issues too
Just be patient. Greys are super smart. And they are generally grumpy. But if you respect their space and are consistent with your interactions with them, you won't find a better friend in the long run.
"only half???" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Try adding something to block the large stick, like a piece of cardboard on the stick, cone-of-shame style. He won't be able to rush the hand that way because the cardboard's in the way. Or clear plastic to help keep from scaring him.
greys are often super eager to learn - so much fun to work with. Great video thanks!
Ane is such a delight!
Thank you ♥️ These videos with Ane & Roman are excellent and contains great training tips and practical problem solving. Everything well explained 👍👏♥️
Try vet wrap on the dowel might make it easier to grip. More secure.
Might try a hawk glove instead of towel.
Also could put something on end of dowel like a bowl/with hole to protect Hans. Like a fencing foil
He eats the vet wrap off. Multiple tries…every time…
I recently got a grey & have trained him to step up and off on a stick so far. I wrapped a towel around my arm but put a zipper on top so when I have attempted to get him to step up on my arm he has tried to bite but didn’t have any effect. He doesn’t like towels so under the zipper worked better
@@aneshields3028 are you the Ane, owner of Roman in the video? If so, how is he doing? He such a beautiful Grey.
I'm not a fan of African Greys, but I find something about him gorgeous. I think he has so much potential ❤
It's his fluffy little birdie butt. So cute.
I love that giant cage type room. Where do you get that from?
Kings cages has them. But they are super expensive.
Awesome Cage
"But REALLY do you want a hug? Hug? HUG? HUGGGGGGGGGG!?!?"
I adopted an AG that outlived his owner. We are 3 months into trust building. The stick lead to boops thru the bars. This week we are boopin with nothin between us and moving to head touching. We focus on “sweet” behavior and “mean” behavior … he is teaching me a lot. We are learning together.
I just got my Amazon I can not even touch him . I really trying to learn he’s language
So much to learn from these interactions and the sharing of ideas!
Why not use a falconers glove/sleeve? Or sew up a sleeve from towel material that you could slip on and off your arm easily. I almost feel as if you were totally not afraid of him biting he might stop.
I wish the best for Ane and Roman 💜
Are you guys going to put your dried seasonal feeding back on the website? I was looking to order some but it's all out of stock or not even on the website! Thanks for all you're doing for our feathered friends! Love you guys!
Teach him a “no thank you” or stop button signal.
You could also use some training momentum built from a fresh behavior chain. And/or a bit of a start button.
It looks like you are rushing right into getting him to step up. I think that going way back to the beginning and shape it again slower and looking for much smaller approximations. Slice it more!
Capture all appropriate behaviors to the presentation of hand/towel/dowel. Clicking for calm neutral behavior working on decreasing the eye pinning and hyper active behaviors.
A few suggestions. ❤
Yay was excited to see a part 2!
Why not use a bowl to deliver treats to Roman?
I made a very simple T stand out of an old table lamp and a piece of dowel. Kept thinking it would work very nicely for training the step up and moving back-and-forth from the cage. That way he could not rush your hand.
Where can we buy the premade seasonal feeding? The store always says sold out 😭 and I've never seen anything but the summer one
The 5 love languages!!! Helping me with learning about African gray parrots and quotes from an amazing book. What else can we ask for!!!
She has a beautiful home for him.
Here's a thought: Maybe putting the towel on a stand or table and getting him to walk over/on it without biting. Maybe that would desensitize the towel itself before using it during "step up" training.
You need one of those fully padded bodysuits dog trainers use :D
Yay love your content and all that you do for birds have a great day day hi to your handsome Comet and super awesome Jinxy
I see this as a case of an owner who understands the basics of what their bird is trying to communicate but not the proper response. I see this all the time in small dog owners and they say “he’s growling at me and I want him to stop growling and biting”.
Well how did it start “it starting with growling when I would pet him but now he growls whenever I go near him laying down”. Growling is communication not aggression. By ignoring the dog communicating clear discomfort you’ve made them escalate to biting and growling from a further distance. You’ve taught them that unless they bite, you will not respect their request.
Big dogs tend to be taken seriously. And the opposite happens. They growl and are severely punished. In return we get a dog that does not verbally communicate it’s discomfort, physical communication isn’t understood, and then there’s a bite with “no warning”.
My thought was maybe getting him used to a towel in general. Hang one on a perch and target him to walk over it or stand on it and then give a treat. Once it's routine then try getting a step up with the towel around the arm. Hopefully he'd step right up like no big deal.
yay more Roman
I'd change the color of the towel and see if you could reprogram the step up that way
Maybe if he learns to step up and step off forward w/o the towel. Use the towel for the step backwards? Any bird higher is in the power position from what I remember. Maybe tap the mobile stick with the target stick, like bringing his attention to it earlier. so, before you want him to step up, tap the mobile perch. 'step up and present perch to him. Same steps all the time.
As a behavior specialist I would sometimes meet parents that were too passive with and scared of their own kids, and the kids can bully their parents and push them around because thats the dynanic. But the two things the kids were missing was a healthy bond with their parent and the sense of security of knowing the parent was ultimately in control. Its not exactly the same as she may be taking on a bird who may not be over his previous owner and establishing that initial connection is hard. Food seems to be the way to the heart of many animals, you would just never want to reward bad behavior. If he tries to bite her every time she feeds him and he gets the food anyways, its rewarding. But tricky because he has to eat.
You guys are great. At the end, I was saying to his owner "Don't touch him. Don't touch him. Do. Not. Touch. Back up. Give space."
This shows how smart Greys are. You see Roman figuring out how to get the treat by leaving the perch and then going back to the perch.
We have found over the years that our birds like you to sing to them and insert their name into the song. Example...for Oscar the green wing macaw ...How much is that Oscar in the window the one with the beautiful tail etc.....Jethro our African gray... I'm a little Jethro short and stout here is my tail here is my snout,when I get to flapping ,Jethro 's coming to check you out. etc. They do not care that you are not America's got talent. They will prompt you to sing their song. But please sing their song and do not ignore them Add some smoochy kiss sounds etc. And sincere I love you's too. Since 1998
Since comments are disabled on the kids channel, a few questions:
What is in your pellets & do you make them?
Where did you get the blue water tray thing in Blue's cage? I think my canaries would love that!
I seem to always have much more success with my grey's when I take them out of their comfort zone. They are more " bond-y " when I am the only familiar and they learn to be more trusting of me. I hate grey bites, they always get infected and they always bleed lol..
I didn't finish watching the whole video but how about using an oven mitt instead of the towel? It might just be different enough that it doesn't have the same paired aggressive reaction, but still provides a safety barrier?
Singing your love to your bird. Music calms the savage beast.
Try using a leather farm glove. You can get soft ones, that protect hands but allow you and the birds to feel each other better.
This once again underlines that allowing an animal to say "no" is oh so important. Now for the second part: How is the road back from "A hard bite equals no" back down to "A gesture or a tap from the beak equals no."?
I rescued a cockatiel whos reaction to any human hand approaching his space was a hiss and an open mouth lunge. Basically screaming *go away*. He had lived with a family with 2 young children who didnt respect his space at all. He bit me plenty of times hard at first. I would just calmly ignore the biting and lunging and continue working with him after a brief pause.
But if he politely requested "no" using other body language, Id stop the interaction immediately. He figued out really fast he could communicate "I dont want that" without biting.
He then learned human hands gave good scritches and treats (I think he wasnt handled much in a way that made him feel safe before I had him) and that he got better results when he didnt act like a tyrant.
He was a great bird then, soliciting attention by flying over to me and "dancing" or singing if he was in his cage instead of shrieking, minded me (as much as a bird ever does - they are like toddlers) funny as heck little guy with a huge selection of whistles and songs. His only actual speech was "hello" "stop that!" "No!" and "shut up!" - Which I think says a lot about his previous environment.
I almost kept him but someone with a much older child and less hectic household and also another cockatiel adopted him and last I heard hes a great lil guy still.
He was my only "problem bird". Although my family has kept birds, Im actually a dog rescuer. I dont rescue birds. But I didnt want the little guy getting dumped in some pet shop - which is where he was headed when a friend in rescue told me about him. I spent a lot of time studying about parrot behavior and communication before I took the plunge so to speak.
So I dont know if the technique I used would work with a much larger bird who could do serious damage with its bites, but I found it worked very well with him.
😂 this reminds me of the Teddy Roosevelt quote, 'speak softly and carry a big stick'. Looks like the mantra to live by for this pet human and her bird owner
A hand held T perch would be awesome! Would remove her hand from his biting zone.
A little bit late watching this video, but I find it so fascinating watching a bird's body language change throughout a training session, especially those moments when the bird figures out what you want them to do.
For my budgie who used to be a bit of a biter, not much really but I used to have trouble getting him to step up or he would try to bite if he flew to me and I also had to learn to gage his pace. It made such a difference the more I learned his body language and used permission based training. My budgie still occasionally bites but I've realised sometimes it's just more of an explorative or warning "bite" or more just beak tapping when he doesn't want to do something, it's never actually malicious but I was always terrified of being bitten at first which made it seem worse than it was. He's actually quite gentle with me and I used the method of teaching him that if he stepped up or came to me, my hand meant either treats or that he would be taken to one of his favourite places like his play stand or a favourite perch, and he learned to associate my hand as a source of safety too. So I was also focusing on getting him to step down to his favourite places and gradually extending the time he was on my hand, starting out really small. I don't know if you can try and use the towel or perch in this way to build that positive association? Using it to take him to a favourite perch or something he loves?
Impeccable. All 4 of you!
My A.Grey picks up on my emotions...if you feel stressed or anxious they do know but dont know why,it fears them...Shes 14 yrs old and very very loving,had a few nips because she is upset if i touch her toys in the cage...Loves me whistling a tune and she joins in,if i say this is Babzy song she knows...I rescued her at 3 yrs old and lesrnt by watching her habits and moods over time...A good talker and suddenly comes out with words I've not heard before,like hey Bambino"??...🤣🤣...Dont forget to worm them either,look it up on Google ...Lots of love and happy days with your new friend💝💝💝
Shorten the stick to give her more control. Then add a plastic, circular shaped shield for the hand. It will work kinda like a hilt on a sword or a dog's cone of shame. Maybe cut a hole in a bowl or plate? Glue the stick in it?
Hes really motivated w the treats.
His eyes pin every time he goes for a treat.
Our 16 yr old Barney is 24/7 on my shoulder....I knowwww...I have spoiled him rotten.....YET, it took me 14 yrs to allow him to take seeds from my hands 😂as he loves to give me those sucker punches 😂
You should watch ‘why your parrot shoulder rushes’ or ‘shoulder rules | rule of thumb’ (both amazing BirdTricks videos) so glad you waited that many years so many people give up in like 2 weeks (sometimes less!) just because the bird ‘doesn’t like’ them
Firstly, I want to say thank you for the videos, this is my first comment on your page soo... sorry if it's long. I'm in a bit of a transitional period in life and I cant have my dog Bo with me (He is in a good loving home with my brother momentarily and I see him regularly he is just way too loud to be permanently in the situation I'm in now... like macaw decibel level.) but a bird sounded just as therapeutic as a companion, a bit noisy but at a reasonable decible level. There was a recommendation for a Pionus as a fist parrot (which I would have probably never would have considered otherwise.) and after research I was unaware they lived so long and were actually able to be trained to this extent which intrigues me greatly, so here I am in my month of consideration doing research and learning before coming to a final decision.
And now in deeper research to stay true as how I've been raised regards to pet ownership, I will more than likely find a Pionus that needs to be rehomed fully understanding there are a plethora of possible beharvioural complications that can come with that, so thank you again for these types of videos as well.
I remember you talking about AnticedantBehaviourConsequence in another video, and stopping the negative behavior when there is a que for it. It seems this bird will put its head down (que) to bite the towel before it steps up as opposed to leaning forward to simply step onto it. It also seems that the bird is trying to communicate that it doesn't want to step up by biting but is willing to comply and does. So I'm not familiar with birds so much as dogs (Bo and I have AMAZING communication between each other so the birds are a little more subtle. and if Bo's head is down he is being passive, the complete opposite of a parrot apparently.) but maybe incentivizing the action by showing a treat first, then presenting the arm might help make Roman want to perch and not need to communicate "I don't want to do this but I will.". Then if he lowers his head instead of leaning, stopping the negative behavior, remove the arm, and allow him the failure so he can "think about his life choices" as Dave put it, and try it again.
Add your thoughts in the comments at that mid-video brainstorming point? Ok, well I'm thinking of how birds of prey are handled with leather gloves & stuff & would that be a good option here? Replace the towel with something he's not associating with biting, but still protecting the hand/arm
Never seen such an aggressive African grey 😳..hope he's able to get retrained & calm down for Ane. Shes letting the bird run her life & train her instead of the opposite..may be why hes so aggro
I agree with louinwy1, but a falcon glove is a bit much... I would try an old jeans leg that covers all the arm and hand. Show the bird the material and get him to touch it with targeting, then wear it and get him to step up with targeting. If it worked, I would gradually uncover the fingers, then the whole hand, etc. I also once used (with a red-bellied parrot) a 1-litre empty (plastic) ice cream container: put a whole in the middle and force it onto the end of a wooden stick, then the hand goes inside the container. The drawback is you cannot gradually show part of the hand and the bird does not learn to hop on part of your body. But if the pant leg did not work, that is what I would try.
Did anyone else cringe with the intolerance of how birds' minds and training works? Its like a young child, so unfortunately you have to bend to their will, its just part of having one of the magnificent gifts! Thank you BirdTricks for being so amazing ALL the time.
Yeah. They are like a young child whos mind works completely differently than a typical person's.
I NEED A CAGE LIKE THAT
Once when my grey & I had a " disagreement " he started biting at my hand SO I bought one of those plastic hands off ebay that they use in nail salons , I held it in my hand and pulled my sleeve down so only the hand was showing it worked back then . He was about 5 or 6 yr old back then , now he's started again with the bite hard as soon as I go to do anything with him , bloody annoying really as I raised him from 5 weeks old , he's now about 9 yr old and I think he just hormonal and needs a girlfriend and at my age ( 65 ) and 40 + years of keeping large parrots I think ive had enough and might let him go to a breeder .
Rather than a towel I would try Kevlar sleeves - as for rabbit handling
Afix a blocking device on the stick near the hand so if he does hand rush, he can’t bite.
I held my breath when Dave dropped the treat and then Jamie didn’t have one. Really thought he was gonna get nailed 🫣😂
Man that's a cool cage.
‼️need help!!! ‼️Thank you to anyone who responds!
Seeing this video was what I needed for my zoe(13+ year old rescue severe macaw, likely WILD caught has no ID bands). Very aggressive, will bite you and is afraid of towels and sticks, even “playing” with toys in her cage she is tough like she’s an MMA fighting bird.…. She will chase feet(I have to wear steel toe boots sometimes to get her back, and have her rush a blanket that I use to carry back to the cage to get her in. In that sense Roman is light years ahead of my macaw sadly. What do I do to get her to trust me? I’ve had her now for maybe 6 months. She targets well without any issue.
I’m afraid when she comes out of her cage I can’t get her back when she’s being naughty or I need to leave the house. I should also preface this by saying she doesn’t get put back in her cage for being naughty, BUT I would like to move her if she is being naughty(chewing curtains that sort of thing). Also my fiancé is scared 💩 less of her and I’ve gotten so many bites by now I’ve just accepted it.
Does sensory overstimulation play a role in bird aggression? (particularly the eyes).
How is she getting the seasonal feeding system?! I’ve been ordering pellets and toys from you guys for a while now and the seasonal feeding system is ALWAYS sold out lol
Can you guys come to the UK. Xx
What about trying to use a bird glove, to move away from the towel?
I really don't think he is ever gain't too forgive that is how Parrots are especially birds like Amazon's and Grays I think she would be much happier getting a baby or adopting another parrot And he would be happier starting over again with An experienced parrot owner I believe she deserves to be happy and enjoy her parrot isn't that the reason why we have them She's a really sweet lady who made innocent mistakes Africans are not easy to deal with I hope she finds happiness she really deserves it look at what a wonderful Pet owner she is what a beautiful cage she made for him It makes me sad that she has to suffer every day
Brainstorming: could you bring the T-Stand to his cage, let him get on the T-Stand and then move the T Stand to his spot in the kitchen/window?
What about a dowel attached to PVC so it is an "L" shape so that she can hold it for him to step on the short part. Then he wouldn't be able to rush the hands.
I am wondering if you use a small t-stand for him to step up on instead of the towel?
Fantastic video, educational and entertaining
I wonder, can a Bird Vet, shave 🪒 down a bird’s beak (maybe w a Dremel tool) so it’s not sharp enough to puncture human skin? I know nothing about the Sharp Beaked birds. Do they really need the edge of their beaks so pointy & dangerous? It’s not like they’re out in the wild & need to defend themselves. I guess if there aren’t sensory nerves in the beak shaving couldn’t hurt?
Some kind of leather glove that mimics a hand more than a towel. Or an oven glove?
Nice video
As an AG owner. They are a grumpy species in general. They like very few people. Mine is super sweet and cuddly and needy with me or my son. But he will bite a stranger without fail first chance he gets. My MG Maccaw is a big Ole needy baby with everyone though. Lol
I'm going to try this food. My tiels eat Bird Bistro and China Prairie sprouts. I wonder if I switched their food to this food if they'd like it.
Why on earth did this lady decide buy an African Grey? She reminds me of my mother.
I in same boat with my new amazon
Babyyyy!
Haha just like a cat to try to make it about them.
Blue the African at our shelter just bites for no reason. He will be lovey and In A good mood then bites the bejeesus out of you